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	<title>Comments on: Three years</title>
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		<title>By: SpeakEasy</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59158</link>
		<dc:creator>SpeakEasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It was pointed out once (Thomas Friedman perhaps?) that the least stable civilized nations were still based around tribalism. I see it all as an evolution of civilization rather than a stagnation. Perhaps we are seeing the evolution of Iran rather than the revolution. The Iraqis are no longer dragging their knuckles but are also not fully erect. Given time and encouragement they may start using tools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was pointed out once (Thomas Friedman perhaps?) that the least stable civilized nations were still based around tribalism. I see it all as an evolution of civilization rather than a stagnation. Perhaps we are seeing the evolution of Iran rather than the revolution. The Iraqis are no longer dragging their knuckles but are also not fully erect. Given time and encouragement they may start using tools.</p>
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		<title>By: SpeakEasy</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59156</link>
		<dc:creator>SpeakEasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Morton,
I think you are slightly short-sighted WRT Islam. In the interests of full disclosure let me first say I am not a fan. But I seem to recall my own religion, Christianity, got a little militant and had to reform. It is possible to follow the teachings of a religion without giving it complete ownership of your life. Given their past western leanings, I would say Iran is one of the most likely nations under Islam to adapt and reform. Sure, I could be wrong but so could you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morton,<br />
I think you are slightly short-sighted WRT Islam. In the interests of full disclosure let me first say I am not a fan. But I seem to recall my own religion, Christianity, got a little militant and had to reform. It is possible to follow the teachings of a religion without giving it complete ownership of your life. Given their past western leanings, I would say Iran is one of the most likely nations under Islam to adapt and reform. Sure, I could be wrong but so could you.</p>
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		<title>By: E. Nigma</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59145</link>
		<dc:creator>E. Nigma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59145</guid>
		<description>OR you could think of this as net-centric warfare in reverse.  The terror and insurrection cells that created havoc in Iraq for the US Army and Marines eventually were largely rooted out because the Iraqi public was fed up with the senseless violence.

Who&#039;s committing the senseless violence in Iran?? Or is it &quot;sensible&quot; justified violence? Preserve the state, at what cost?
+70 million people are involved. What is the critical number to sustain a network of effective resistance, with a larger cloud of people sympathetic but unwilling to completely commit? How committed are the Revolutionary Guard soldiers, if their own families and friends turn against the regime?

How much disorder can Iran take before the wheels stop turning, and things just don&#039;t get done?
In physical systems, there is such a thing as energy, order and disorder (entropy). It will take an immense amount of energy by the central government in Iran to maintain order, as time goes on. What if the human units of &quot;order&quot; begin to get fatigued by the exertions of imposing &quot;order&quot;? The violence and killing and all; are they as ruthless as the Gestapo or the Cheka?
How much dis-order can a connected net-centric group of dissidents create, short of violence and mayhem?
Strikes, slowdowns, modest acts of disobedience, organized resistance all over the country. It&#039;s only supercially the BBC, as that gives the Iranian government an outside boogeyman to blame and create fear of the &quot;other&quot; for the great number of undecided Iranians. Information and the truth can persuade the mass of &quot;undecided&quot; Iranian about the course of the future.  It&#039;s not just about guns and bayonets.

Everything begins with an idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OR you could think of this as net-centric warfare in reverse.  The terror and insurrection cells that created havoc in Iraq for the US Army and Marines eventually were largely rooted out because the Iraqi public was fed up with the senseless violence.</p>
<p>Who&#8217;s committing the senseless violence in Iran?? Or is it &#8220;sensible&#8221; justified violence? Preserve the state, at what cost?<br />
+70 million people are involved. What is the critical number to sustain a network of effective resistance, with a larger cloud of people sympathetic but unwilling to completely commit? How committed are the Revolutionary Guard soldiers, if their own families and friends turn against the regime?</p>
<p>How much disorder can Iran take before the wheels stop turning, and things just don&#8217;t get done?<br />
In physical systems, there is such a thing as energy, order and disorder (entropy). It will take an immense amount of energy by the central government in Iran to maintain order, as time goes on. What if the human units of &#8220;order&#8221; begin to get fatigued by the exertions of imposing &#8220;order&#8221;? The violence and killing and all; are they as ruthless as the Gestapo or the Cheka?<br />
How much dis-order can a connected net-centric group of dissidents create, short of violence and mayhem?<br />
Strikes, slowdowns, modest acts of disobedience, organized resistance all over the country. It&#8217;s only supercially the BBC, as that gives the Iranian government an outside boogeyman to blame and create fear of the &#8220;other&#8221; for the great number of undecided Iranians. Information and the truth can persuade the mass of &#8220;undecided&#8221; Iranian about the course of the future.  It&#8217;s not just about guns and bayonets.</p>
<p>Everything begins with an idea.</p>
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		<title>By: krontekag</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59139</link>
		<dc:creator>krontekag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59139</guid>
		<description>Obama couldn&#039;t even raise a weak &quot;hey... stop it...&quot; when it counted.

He has rendered himself insignificant (and unfortunately the US along with him) in terms of world affairs, by proclaiming the US unqualified to comment on Iran.  His lightweight responses to the new Honduran crisis will further cement his irrelevance.  What little he has provided there is support for the ousted unconstitutional dictator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama couldn&#8217;t even raise a weak &#8220;hey&#8230; stop it&#8230;&#8221; when it counted.</p>
<p>He has rendered himself insignificant (and unfortunately the US along with him) in terms of world affairs, by proclaiming the US unqualified to comment on Iran.  His lightweight responses to the new Honduran crisis will further cement his irrelevance.  What little he has provided there is support for the ousted unconstitutional dictator.</p>
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		<title>By: Utopia Parkway</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59109</link>
		<dc:creator>Utopia Parkway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59109</guid>
		<description>Whiskey, The rulers of Iran will go down, not when the opposition has more guns than them but when the Revolutionary Guard refuses to use its guns against the opposition. The Iranian rulers are well aware that their biggest threat comes from within and have prepared for this day for years. They can&#039;t be beat by force of arms, at least not from within. 

Promulgation of information on the net is one way that the opposition can spread the word of what is happening and can influence their opponents to change. Its decentralized nature makes it difficult for the Iranian rulers to shut it down.  Curiously Iran is dependent on the internet for its business and other interests. This has made it impossible for Iran to simply shut down the internet but rather has tried to filter it. There are many problems with spreading of info by the internet, including the regime spreading false info under false flags, but in the end I think it is a great egalitarian endeavor that will help to bring down tyrannies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whiskey, The rulers of Iran will go down, not when the opposition has more guns than them but when the Revolutionary Guard refuses to use its guns against the opposition. The Iranian rulers are well aware that their biggest threat comes from within and have prepared for this day for years. They can&#8217;t be beat by force of arms, at least not from within. </p>
<p>Promulgation of information on the net is one way that the opposition can spread the word of what is happening and can influence their opponents to change. Its decentralized nature makes it difficult for the Iranian rulers to shut it down.  Curiously Iran is dependent on the internet for its business and other interests. This has made it impossible for Iran to simply shut down the internet but rather has tried to filter it. There are many problems with spreading of info by the internet, including the regime spreading false info under false flags, but in the end I think it is a great egalitarian endeavor that will help to bring down tyrannies.</p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59051</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59051</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The irony of Barack Obama’s policy of reticence towards Iran is that it comes at a time in history when words would have had the greatest effect.&lt;/i&gt;

 The measure of preparation that the Iranian Regime had undertaken even four years ago tells me that a cautionary warning would have had the greatest effect. But by the time such a warning could have been issued, the Mullahs had already determined what their course of action would be. How can you shame a Sociopath?

 &lt;i&gt;&quot;Three years ago I gave a presentation in Israel arguing that encouraging blogs and other “Internet sensors” to multiply in the Arab world would create a kind of runaway transparency which would objectively work in the cause of peace.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

 It worked, within the limits of its ability. To sustain such a revolt would require the ideas to have already found their bayonets. If anything president Obama&#039;s message of non communication belied the charges of US Government complicity. For anything the President said to have had an effect some measure of muscle should have been readied for flexing. There was little chance that the words of the administration could have effected circumstances in Iran unless they could have swayed some Mullah&#039;s to side against Ahmadineajad. That Rafsanjhani&#039;s family members were held hostage indicate little chance of that happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;The irony of Barack Obama’s policy of reticence towards Iran is that it comes at a time in history when words would have had the greatest effect.</i></p>
<p> The measure of preparation that the Iranian Regime had undertaken even four years ago tells me that a cautionary warning would have had the greatest effect. But by the time such a warning could have been issued, the Mullahs had already determined what their course of action would be. How can you shame a Sociopath?</p>
<p> <i>&#8220;Three years ago I gave a presentation in Israel arguing that encouraging blogs and other “Internet sensors” to multiply in the Arab world would create a kind of runaway transparency which would objectively work in the cause of peace.&#8221;</i></p>
<p> It worked, within the limits of its ability. To sustain such a revolt would require the ideas to have already found their bayonets. If anything president Obama&#8217;s message of non communication belied the charges of US Government complicity. For anything the President said to have had an effect some measure of muscle should have been readied for flexing. There was little chance that the words of the administration could have effected circumstances in Iran unless they could have swayed some Mullah&#8217;s to side against Ahmadineajad. That Rafsanjhani&#8217;s family members were held hostage indicate little chance of that happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59050</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Sylwester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59050</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Perhaps it’s wrong to think that a word from Barack Obama can change history in Iran any longer. They, not he, are the people they’ve been waiting for. A self-driven, self-informing public may not need a One to lead it in the long run.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a better description of the situation than the idea that the situation was caused by whatever Obama has or has not said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Perhaps it’s wrong to think that a word from Barack Obama can change history in Iran any longer. They, not he, are the people they’ve been waiting for. A self-driven, self-informing public may not need a One to lead it in the long run.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a better description of the situation than the idea that the situation was caused by whatever Obama has or has not said.</p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59048</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59048</guid>
		<description>There is a point where the smaller blog raises the attention of a larger well known blog and that attention increases the potential numbers of people who are reached. No while facebook and the tweeters are of no real account in and of themselves, when Andrew Sullivan began blogging a running account of what was happening the numbers of folks who read, and the numbers of movers and shakers who became aware of what was happening grew by powers of ten. 

 The Iranian government began to feel the heat, nearly instantaneously on election night. And the attempts to shut it all down began. The Iranians began by blocking the BBC signals. The BBC merely changed satellites.  The stubborn opposition and not the BBC began a signals war with the Iranian Government and official internet sites. The outcome was that the Government shut down all but the most primitive of communications systems both inter and intra country including their own.

 Some sites were left alone, only because the opposition wanted folks to be able to read Khamenei&#039;s rant and blather. Which they had no problem allowing when compared to the PBC&#039;s fare. Which At the height of the demonstrations were...&quot;very cautious, reminding viewers of what they can confirm and what they can’t, and of who their sources are,” said Ali Ansari, a professor of Iranian studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. “And they don’t allow people to use their broadcasts to slander their opponents, which is more than you can say for the state broadcasting network in Iran. &lt;b&gt;The paradox is that it’s precisely because they are seen as objective and impartial by Iranians that they come under such severe attack.”&lt;/b&gt;

 Because the means of broadcast are more easily turned on and off by a totalitarian regime, with less economic or even political impact then would result in a free society, the struggle can be suppressed out of sight, out of the view of the powerful blogs and information magnates, behind closed doors.

Rise Again&#039;s
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS

&lt;i&gt;Chairs thrown and tables toppled,
Hands armed with broken bottles,
Standing no chance to win but,
We&#039;re not running, we&#039;re not running.

There&#039;s a point I think we&#039;re missing,
It&#039;s in the air we raise our fists in,
In the smiles we cast each other,
My sister, my brother.

About the time we gave up hoping,
We never find these locks still open,
Stumbling on stones unturned,
The hurt we feel, we all have earned.

The lines we&#039;ve cross in search of change,
but all they see is treason

[Chorus:]
Although we have no obligation to stay alive,
On broken backs we beg for mercy, we will survive,
(Break out) I won&#039;t be left here,
Behind closed doors.

Bonfires burn like beacons,
Guiding the lost and weakened.
Flames dance on crashing waves,
Guiding ships who&#039;ve gone astray

Time out, let&#039;s stop and think this through,
We&#039;ve all got better things to do,
Than talk in circles, run in place,
Answers inches from my face.

[Chorus]

Black eyes, broken fingers,
Blood drips and I let it run,
down my lips and to my swollen gums,
When hope is non-existent,
Our instincts all scream &quot;Run&quot;,
We never turn our backs or even bite our tongue.&lt;/i&gt;
Songwriters: Barnes, Brandon; Chasse, Christopher; Mcilrath, Timothy; Principe, Joseph Daniel

At least until something better comes along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a point where the smaller blog raises the attention of a larger well known blog and that attention increases the potential numbers of people who are reached. No while facebook and the tweeters are of no real account in and of themselves, when Andrew Sullivan began blogging a running account of what was happening the numbers of folks who read, and the numbers of movers and shakers who became aware of what was happening grew by powers of ten. </p>
<p> The Iranian government began to feel the heat, nearly instantaneously on election night. And the attempts to shut it all down began. The Iranians began by blocking the BBC signals. The BBC merely changed satellites.  The stubborn opposition and not the BBC began a signals war with the Iranian Government and official internet sites. The outcome was that the Government shut down all but the most primitive of communications systems both inter and intra country including their own.</p>
<p> Some sites were left alone, only because the opposition wanted folks to be able to read Khamenei&#8217;s rant and blather. Which they had no problem allowing when compared to the PBC&#8217;s fare. Which At the height of the demonstrations were&#8230;&#8221;very cautious, reminding viewers of what they can confirm and what they can’t, and of who their sources are,” said Ali Ansari, a professor of Iranian studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. “And they don’t allow people to use their broadcasts to slander their opponents, which is more than you can say for the state broadcasting network in Iran. <b>The paradox is that it’s precisely because they are seen as objective and impartial by Iranians that they come under such severe attack.”</b></p>
<p> Because the means of broadcast are more easily turned on and off by a totalitarian regime, with less economic or even political impact then would result in a free society, the struggle can be suppressed out of sight, out of the view of the powerful blogs and information magnates, behind closed doors.</p>
<p>Rise Again&#8217;s<br />
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS</p>
<p><i>Chairs thrown and tables toppled,<br />
Hands armed with broken bottles,<br />
Standing no chance to win but,<br />
We&#8217;re not running, we&#8217;re not running.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a point I think we&#8217;re missing,<br />
It&#8217;s in the air we raise our fists in,<br />
In the smiles we cast each other,<br />
My sister, my brother.</p>
<p>About the time we gave up hoping,<br />
We never find these locks still open,<br />
Stumbling on stones unturned,<br />
The hurt we feel, we all have earned.</p>
<p>The lines we&#8217;ve cross in search of change,<br />
but all they see is treason</p>
<p>[Chorus:]<br />
Although we have no obligation to stay alive,<br />
On broken backs we beg for mercy, we will survive,<br />
(Break out) I won&#8217;t be left here,<br />
Behind closed doors.</p>
<p>Bonfires burn like beacons,<br />
Guiding the lost and weakened.<br />
Flames dance on crashing waves,<br />
Guiding ships who&#8217;ve gone astray</p>
<p>Time out, let&#8217;s stop and think this through,<br />
We&#8217;ve all got better things to do,<br />
Than talk in circles, run in place,<br />
Answers inches from my face.</p>
<p>[Chorus]</p>
<p>Black eyes, broken fingers,<br />
Blood drips and I let it run,<br />
down my lips and to my swollen gums,<br />
When hope is non-existent,<br />
Our instincts all scream &#8220;Run&#8221;,<br />
We never turn our backs or even bite our tongue.</i><br />
Songwriters: Barnes, Brandon; Chasse, Christopher; Mcilrath, Timothy; Principe, Joseph Daniel</p>
<p>At least until something better comes along.</p>
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		<title>By: no mo uro</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59043</link>
		<dc:creator>no mo uro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59043</guid>
		<description>The tech question, again?

Technology does provide the possibility of undermining regimes like Iran but it is no guarantee.

There will always be censors from governments.  And there will always be those who are a half-step ahead of those censors with some new technology.  But will those be enough for a critical mass of opinion?  And is that critical mass a plastic number, dependent upon the level of fear and violence that a government is willing apply to resist reform?  I think the recent events in Iran force us to conclude that it is.  A sea change in Islam&#039;s overwhelming tendency to use violence to force conformity, or the decline of Islam in its entirety, will need to happen regardless of what information technology exists.

On the domestic front, I can say that after 9/11 I thought we were in a time of Chamberlain-esque denial about a hot enemy similar to 1938.  But I think that now is much more like that time.  And I think that until something truly awful shocks the wealthy elites and their legions of overeducated, underintelligent wannabes in government, the entertainment industry, and the education industry, that we won&#039;t progress regardless of what information technology is there.  There&#039;s just a big contingent of people out there who will crave security of status and income stream security over liberty, and, inertia being what it is, it will take some great force to move them.  

Shibboleths abound in a situation like ours, as Thrasymachus points out.  The scolding and branding by entertainers is just the most visible sign of this partitioning and shunning.  Suburban &#039;super&#039; moms, going through life believing that motherhood is a contest for which there is an Olympic medal, will not let their children associate with kids whose parents hunt or are NASCAR fans for fear of what all the other cool &#039;progressive&#039; mommies might say.  They&#039;ll send their kids to college regardless of whether or not that&#039;s really the best thing for the kid, because they&#039;re terrified of the negative social consequences should their other Olympic-mommy peers find out that little Courtney or Jared become a tradesman or soldier or some other non-approved person.  Doubtless there are other examples of this.  

I&#039;m all for getting more information out there and using tech to its fullest.  At one time, not so long ago, I believed that that was all there was to it in terms of reclaiming America from the Gramscians.  But
I&#039;m not sure that increasing channels of information by itself can change this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tech question, again?</p>
<p>Technology does provide the possibility of undermining regimes like Iran but it is no guarantee.</p>
<p>There will always be censors from governments.  And there will always be those who are a half-step ahead of those censors with some new technology.  But will those be enough for a critical mass of opinion?  And is that critical mass a plastic number, dependent upon the level of fear and violence that a government is willing apply to resist reform?  I think the recent events in Iran force us to conclude that it is.  A sea change in Islam&#8217;s overwhelming tendency to use violence to force conformity, or the decline of Islam in its entirety, will need to happen regardless of what information technology exists.</p>
<p>On the domestic front, I can say that after 9/11 I thought we were in a time of Chamberlain-esque denial about a hot enemy similar to 1938.  But I think that now is much more like that time.  And I think that until something truly awful shocks the wealthy elites and their legions of overeducated, underintelligent wannabes in government, the entertainment industry, and the education industry, that we won&#8217;t progress regardless of what information technology is there.  There&#8217;s just a big contingent of people out there who will crave security of status and income stream security over liberty, and, inertia being what it is, it will take some great force to move them.  </p>
<p>Shibboleths abound in a situation like ours, as Thrasymachus points out.  The scolding and branding by entertainers is just the most visible sign of this partitioning and shunning.  Suburban &#8216;super&#8217; moms, going through life believing that motherhood is a contest for which there is an Olympic medal, will not let their children associate with kids whose parents hunt or are NASCAR fans for fear of what all the other cool &#8216;progressive&#8217; mommies might say.  They&#8217;ll send their kids to college regardless of whether or not that&#8217;s really the best thing for the kid, because they&#8217;re terrified of the negative social consequences should their other Olympic-mommy peers find out that little Courtney or Jared become a tradesman or soldier or some other non-approved person.  Doubtless there are other examples of this.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for getting more information out there and using tech to its fullest.  At one time, not so long ago, I believed that that was all there was to it in terms of reclaiming America from the Gramscians.  But<br />
I&#8217;m not sure that increasing channels of information by itself can change this.</p>
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		<title>By: Lifeofthemind</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/06/28/three-years/#comment-59024</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeofthemind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=4778#comment-59024</guid>
		<description>The idea must find it&#039;s bayonets.
Training local resistance groups is the purpose behind the US Special Forces. People forget the the Green Berets were set up as a Training Command, not a Combatant Command. Ideally one to three men who were fluent in the local language would parachute in and after being met by someone waving a big wheel of cheese and a bottle of wine one would marry the boss&#039;s daughter and lead an army out of the hills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea must find it&#8217;s bayonets.<br />
Training local resistance groups is the purpose behind the US Special Forces. People forget the the Green Berets were set up as a Training Command, not a Combatant Command. Ideally one to three men who were fluent in the local language would parachute in and after being met by someone waving a big wheel of cheese and a bottle of wine one would marry the boss&#8217;s daughter and lead an army out of the hills.</p>
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