Why should anyone believe results from the passage of 1701 would be any different than the results gained from 1559? The details of how to accomplished the laundry lists agreed upon have in fact nullified any effective capture of arms other materials. UNIFIL does not have the authority to carry out the resolved items, and the Lebanese Army hardly has a presence in the area where arms smuggling and bunker rebuilding are continuing apace. How much of that cement do you think Hezbollah promised to rebuild civilian homes. How much of it was used to reinforce bunkers instead.

There were other items in the laundry list, which were not accomplished, like the prompt return of the Israeli soldiers.

Come on, get real.

I offered you fact, supported it, and gave sources or at least a relevant means to fact check. You offer…nothing but twists and distortion. If you wish to convince anyone you need to present fact, not opinion and support it with documented sources not hearsay. Otherwise it is something less than propaganda and serves no thoughtful end.

Your last opining was shameful, in its attempt accuse someone else of running guns to Hezbollah. Pure unadulterated nonsense that you want me to take seriously. Really?
When you chose to engage in a serious discussion let me know. Better yet let the Christian population of Lebanon know, they deserve to be taken seriously.

I object to Syrian-Iranian-Saudi deals through March 14 and Hizbullah at the expense of Lebanon’s Christians and you accuse me of supporting Hizbullah. Very Curious!

I wonder why you are so eager to discredit Lebanon’s Christians and deny their right to exist. Or, maybe you want all of Lebanon to disappear. You sure sound like the propaganda team that supports Saudi control over Lebanon, and attack anyone who opposes this, particularly if it involves any Christian rights. I notice you continuously defend Sunnis and Saudis and throw all the blame on the Christians.

You even deem inexcusable any attempt to use Sunni-Shiite disagreements to gain some ground for Christians.

I do not intend to entertain anyone. I aim to expose the truth that the Saudis, Syrians and Iranians are still working together to subjugate Lebanon’s Christians. And, they have people like you defending them and holding the Christians responsible for crimes committed against them. I am very serious in exposing this diabolical scheme.

After rallying the world to defeat the Christians in the election on the premises of Hizbullah arms, Hariri declares today that he wants the best relations with Hizbullah and Syria, and he put the “resistance weapons” outside the realm of any discussions. The Saudis confirmed that there will be an all inclusive deal between Hizbullah and Hariri. This is the same old story from your friends the Saudis and Hariri, who legitimized Hizbullah for the past 20 years, opposed any Christian take a leading role in Lebanon.

Today, the US and European peace envoys to the Middle East met with Hizbullah to discuss “peace”. Everyone meets and negotiates with Hizbullah, directly or indirectly, and insists that the solution to their weapons can only be done through negotiations.

But, the Saudis and Hariri want the deal at the expense of Lebanon’s Christians as they have before. As such any Christian political role or talk of freedom and democracy is considered an act of political heresy.

Dhimmism is allowing superior others to make decisions on your behalf, even if come at your expense. The Lebanese Christians are not Dhimmis and will fight to the very end against that. If the world wants to make deals with Hizbullah at the Christian’s expense, then the whole world is working on turning them into Dhimmis. Is this your aim?

Read the UN resolution. It specifically includes a commission to assist Lebanon in intercepting weapons shipments. It also holds all countries responsible for any sale by their nationals or using their flag vessels.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8808.doc.htm

With all the monitoring I listed earlier, and not even a single sighting reported, it becomes clear that either the world is turning a blind eye to Hizbullah’s arms, or the whole story of re-arming is nothing but a pile of B.S. Take your pick.

I do not think this is in any way entertaining. It is a crime against millions of people.

Laugh and be entertained, if you must.

But, many of us believe enough in the cause of freedom and democracy. We believe enough in the rights of Christians to live with dignity in Lebanon that we are not willing to simply surrender to Saudi style theocracy and Dhimmisim, which you so ardently defend.

Are democracy and a continued Christian political role in Lebanon such scary thoughts for your friends?

Are you so afraid that readers may look into the facts I present and realize that they have been fed a bunch of lies that you need to respond to factual discussions with insults?

Cadmus

Cadmus, I was impressed by Chubby Checker in his day, but this conversation takes the twist to a whole other level. What started out as a serious conversation has been taken to new lows. I am not entertained by your responses and I can not take them seriously as they are obviously not seriously given.

By “you” I am assuming you are counting me among the FPM. I am not with party. I have always been independent, agreeing or disagreeing with people and parties based on what they do or say. I have disagreed vehemently with the FPM and Aoun personally on many occasion as I have done with others. My concern as a Lebanese-American is the safety and interests of both the US and Lebanon and the respective populace. And, I have never seen a contradiction.

Both countries would greatly benefit from re-establishing a democratic free system in Lebanon and terminating the wars that have plagued Lebanon. Lebanon’s benefits are obvious. The US will regain a true ally that shares its interest and a beach head to effectively introduce modern political principles into the region.

Iraq can never be the starting point, as it will take decades for them to learn it. Israel will always be considered an alien body by the Moslems and cannot be it either. Lebanon is the natural place to start, and it had started back in the 70’s, which is the main reason so many Arab regimes wanted to put an end to it. Most Lebanese Moslems had adopted democracy and freedom as a way of life and many other Arabs were starting to have the “me too” syndrome. All the free thinkers took Beirut as their base and were starting to have an effect on public opinion.

My main concern at this time is that the US and many Lebanese are being blind sided by those who do not want any of this to happen.

I am also not sure how you take my words to mean a defense of Hizbullah’s policies. I believe I was clear that this is a deal between Hizbullah, Hariri, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria. They are all working on slitting throats. All I said is that Hizbullah is extremely disciplined and not roving marauders. That in a way makes them much more dangerous. But, it also makes it possible to talk to them, as disciplined people will do what they believe is possible as opposed to randomly reeking havoc.

A good analogy for what is happening in Lebanon and has happened several times is the story of Wallace in Scotland. If you have not seen the movie “Braveheart” watch it and would understand. Wallace fought for Scotland’s independence, but was repeatedly betrayed by the land barons who put their own narrow interests ahead of the people’s interests. The land barons turned out to be a bigger problem than England’s Long Shank. They got their lands and the people be damned.

Looking at Lebanon today I find all the good people who truly fought for Lebanon’s independence (not the profiteers who killed for money) conglomerated in one group. It is not just the FPM. Right beside them is the “Assembly for Lebanon”, which includes almost every prominent name in the fight against an Islamic take over of Lebanon, from all parties. There are also many other Christians and a large number of Moslems who ache for their freedom and do not want to be ruled by Iran, Syria or Saudi Arabia and definitely do not want Lebanon to become like them.

Those people also do not want to be robbed by politicians who have stolen more than $100 Billion Dollars from the country in the past 20 years. That is $25,000 per person, or the equivalent of $7.5 Trillion Dollars relative to the US population. You think Obama is bad. Eh? He managed to pull the wool over enough eyes to win the elections also.

These guys fear the rule of law as much as Hizbullah. They all oppose Democracy and accountability, equality for all, the rights of the person not the religion or sect, etc. The FPM wants to put them on trial for steeling and killing and destroying the country. They want to sue Syria, Israel and other countries for damages. They want to hold all accountable to the law. Do you think any of them want the FPM and its allies to rise to power? They are working with Hizbullah to stop them, occasional disagreements not withstanding.

I never believed Hizbullah was anyone’s friend. I said they found common interest in stopping the settlement of the Palestinians in Lebanon and the rise of Sunni fundamentalism, and the FPM tried to use that common interest and Hizbullah’s cornered state after 2006 to gain mileage on other fronts. I really never agreed with how close Aoun got to them, but he seems to believe it was necessary to survive and move forward, and referred to their stand on the election law among others, which at least allowed his parliamentary block to grow. It also removed the pressure off the FPM Shiite membership to expand the party’s presence and popular base – The FPM is a secular party aiming to end sectarianism and does have a lot of support for that principle even from people who oppose the stands Aoun has taken.

For the record, the South Lebanon army that fought Hizbullah for 22 years was almost 80% Shiite. It was always referred to as Israel’s Christian allies, but it was not. The Shiites are not all Hizbullah. There are many active Shiite members of secular parties in Lebanon, including about 15% of the FPM two of whom ran for Parliament last Sunday – one won. The incoming block includes one Shiite and two Druze members. The outgoing block included two Shiites and one Sunni. The party includes about 30% non-Christians, but they all believe in equality for all, and they believe that removing the Christians from Lebanon will transform the country into another Islamic country with no rights for anyone. The Shiite FPM member who lost this election in the central Bekaa is spearheading an official complaint that there was a direct conspiracy against the Christians in his district. Yes, a Shiite defending Christian rights. You will not hear that on MSM.

Today, listening to what the FPM and its allies are saying, they appear to realize that they are alone again, since Hizbullah has turned back to coordinating with Hariri and company. I have always said they were alone. Hizbullah’s deal was a temporary tactical move.

However, I ask you. Is it logical for the US to consider the one party in Lebanon that espouses and promotes the same principles as our founding fathers an obstacle to implementing those very principles and turn to autocrats to help implement democracy? That was long before the FPM even talked to Hizbullah.

Does anyone, including Israel really want Hizbullah gone? Do they believe that threatening Lebanon daily with total destruction and refusing to equip the Lebanese army is the way to do this? Does the push to settle 400,000 Sunni Palestinians in their midst convince them to lay down their arms? How about the continued Arab support for an enormous arsenal in the Palestinian camps that the Lebanese are not allowed to address? Can they be that naïve? Or, is it a whole different game plan?

UN resolutions include a ban on Israel violating Lebanese land, air and territorial waters. By violating UN resolutions on a daily basis, Israel is in fact strengthening Hizbullah, not weakening it? How can anyone convince the Shiites in South Lebanon to abandon Hizbullah, with all this and Israeli jets break the sound barrier over head several times a day?

Furthermore, how has Hizbullah been getting all the weapons that they supposedly received since 2006? There is a huge international naval armada patrolling Lebanon’s coast for the express purpose of stopping that. There are 15,000 or so UN soldiers in South Lebanon and the Government claims to be against Hizbullah’s arms and patrolling the border and ports with international monitors. The US and other countries have diverted satellite capacity to monitor Lebanon’s border with Syria.

How about all the Israeli over-flights and Israeli satellites? What about the vast network of Israeli spies operating in Lebanon? (68 have been arrested in the past two months and another 30 or so are believed to have fled the country)

That is a massive amount of monitoring. Yet, we are to believe that they smuggled 40,000 mid-range missiles through all this, without anyone noticing? Do you believe this? Not a single shipment was spotted by anyone? Not a single bullet was stopped?

I for one am not that naïve. No one is that good. I know if they got all these weapons, someone (probably more than one) saw them and let them through. Who is allowing the weapons through and why?

Or, maybe there are no weapons coming in at all. Just the pretense to make all this story sound more legitimate and get the world to clamp down on the Lebanese. Get everyone to help Hariri “stop Hizbullah” with Saudi and Syrian help, and attack anyone who stands in his way. And, deny the equipping of the Lebanese Army, as it could get to Hizbullah.

A few points to think about. Who is really supporting Hizbullah? Who benefits from its continued presence as an armed “Resistance”? It is no the Lebanese, and definitely not the FPM and its secular allies.

Cadmus

They would use you to gain power, then slit your throat. They use Syria to gain access to Iranian weapons, money and training. They are terrorists who take advantage of other peoples fear to have their way. What happens when they are finished using you? Do you think they will say thank you? Do you think they will leave a hundred dollars on the table, tip their hat and leave? How many communists (having played a huge role in overthrowing the Shah) are there in Iran today? How many evangelical Christians are there in downtown Tehran courtesy of Jimmy Carter?

What does Syria fear?

What do the Saudi’s fear? Despite the cynicism, they act in their own best interest in the overall scheme of humanity. Syria’s Bashir, stirs and deflects but never does it engage in original actions. Iranian Mullahs, it seems to me, are too twisted and too isolated to act rationally. The house of Saud and the Iranian Mullahs want power. Syria wants respect but cannot earn it.

As an intelligent man I am sure you could use that to your advantage. The problem now for Lebanon is how to break free of Hezbollah without having your throat cut in the process. You could actually work out an agreement and resolve nearly all of your internal issues except for that elephant in your living room. It is not just March 14th’s problem, it is yours as well.

The pact includes allowing Hizbullah to remain as it is, giving Iran its extension towards Israel, while Iran allows the Saudi friends to continue to dominate the country’s political system and share their loot with the Syrians. The only obstacle to this pact is the attempt by the Saudis (with help from the US and Israel) to permanently settle 400,000 (maybe more) Palestinians in Lebanon.

I believe I made it clear that I am completely opposed to this pact.

When the FPM led opposition opposed the extension of this pact through 2005 election, the Saudis accused them of being raving lunatics who cannot get along with anyone, and gained world support in their marginalization.

Then, when they tried to capitalize on Hizbullah’s opposition to Palestinian settlement (all Sunnis) and lure Hizbullah away from confrontation and into abandoning their arms, the Saudi-Syrian-Iranian trio went on the offensive. They accused them of treason and a lot of other things, while March 14 continues to deal with Hizbullah unabated.

The US actually implemented a law that would freeze the assets of anyone working with the FPM as an enemy of the state. Yet, Hariri’s regular meetings with Hizbullah, his support for the “Resistance” and Governmental cover are all fine. And, let us not forget $ Billions invested in Syria by Hariri and others, and the numerous March 14 leaders and the UAE who trade with Iran helping it bypass the international embargo.

This is the same pact that brought the Taef accord in 1990, but under a different guise. Then, the Saudis argued that the only way to stop the fanatic Moslem onslaught on Lebanon (primarily financed by the Saudis through Hariri, and supported by Syria) was to strip the Christians of much of their political presence and install the Syrians as the overlords who guaranteed that they never rise again.

The same people opposed that policy as those opposing it today. And, they were ostracized and isolated then as they are today. For 15 years we heard the mantra “necessary, legal and temporary” regarding the Syrian occupation and its agents in Lebanon. Now they have resolved their differences and continue.

Eliminating Lebanon’s Christians is not the road to defeating Hizbullah. It is the road to solidifying the Islamization of Lebanon. At best, as some March 14 Christians dream, this will result in a small isolated Christian state that is hated by its surroundings – definitely not on Israel’s border. The US and Israel have yet to understand that this not to their interest in any way.

By the way, the Shabaa issue goes back t the 50’s when the Syrians first occupied it. Then the Israelis occupied it from Syria in 1967, long before Hizbullah ever existed. It was re-introduced when Israel left south Lebanon to justify Hizbullah’s continued armed resistance.

Also, March 14 has done nothing about the 17,000 people unaccounted for, and they will not. Most of these people were kidnapped and either killed or handed to the Syrians by militias that are now all part of March 14. They do not want this file opened no matter how much people, including the FPM, try. Two years ago some people reported that they know of an area near their homes that had many unidentified bodies buried in it. There was a pretense of digging that did not go beyond 3 feet in the wrong place, while the people were insistent they dig somewhere else. Then those who reported the sight were arrested for false claims to insure no one else comes forward. March 14 call the FPM grave diggers for insisting that all known sights be opened and the bodies’ DNA tested to at least grant closure to the relatives.

I am sure you disagree with the above, and believe that March 14 is simply incapable of facing down Hizbullah and Syria. Whether they CANNOT or WILL NOT, the end result is the same. Why not consider alternatives? The West can at least talk to the FPM and listen to what they have to say, and what they can do. Obviously they scared the others into an unprecedented rallying of a global offensive.

There must be something real they are afraid of.

Could it be the simple idea of Democracy, equality and the rule of law? These principles are anathema to Arab autocrats and theocrats, and scarier than anything else one can can put forth.

Cadmus

Announcing that their strategy in 2005 was to provoke a fight by harassment and an attempt to kidnap Israelis. Not to mention the rocket attacks. And you claim that it was all okay because the government did not object? How was the government to object when its cabinet members were being buried. When trying to meet was inviting death. A quorum could not be achieved because of the vacant seats and Hezbollah cabinet members refusing to attend, no work could be done. No Government condemnation could be had. And you would have folks believe this was a “green light” for evil behavior?

Giving out cookies to children does not absolve Hezbollah and its supporters of such crimes. There should at least be the offer of chocolate to sweeten the occasion. But I would guess something more tangible and serious will be required before Lebanon trusts Hezbollah, before Syria is viewed as a neighbor and before Iranian Quds forces and mullahs are welcome in civilized society.

How about an accounting of the thousands who are still missing and unaccounted for to their families. That would be a real start on the road to reconciliation and peace.

Cadmus

The US must help Hariri
Bucking most predictions, including those of key pro-government figures themselves, the March 14 coalition led by Saad Hariri, the son of the assassinated former premier Rafik Hariri, managed to hold on to the majority of seats in the Lebanese elections last Sunday.
Thankfully, and perhaps as a consequence, this comes at what could be a decisive moment for peace building in the Middle East and in Lebanon itself – if, that is, Hariri and his backers in the Obama administration avoid overreaching themselves in victory and move beyond some of the mistakes of the original 2005 Cedar revolution.
Of those errors, perhaps one of the most glaring was the marginalisation of General Michel Aoun’s mostly Christian Free Patriotic Movement (FPM) and the constituents who supported the party.
In the summer of 2005, after the FPM bloc won an impressive 21 out of 128 seats in the first elections not dictated by Syria – and an estimated (though still technically disputed) 70% of the Christian vote overall – the March 14 coalition rebuffed Aoun’s demand for five cabinet posts that he said were proportional to his parliamentary share.
In the months that followed, the Bush administration and March 14 both refused to accommodate Aoun, believing that in their face-off against Syria and Iran (together Hezbollah’s patrons), they in fact possessed a decisive mandate to rule Lebanon without him and, by extension, without taking into consideration the concerns of his constituents in how that battle might be fought.
The result was the improbable alliance between Aoun and Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, in February 2006 that managed to withstand a war five months later (one that would have been far more damaging for the Party of God in the absence of Aoun’s “Christian cover”), civil unrest, economic decline and recurrent civil violence.
The problem now is that even after March 14′s win this weekend, Aoun remains the single most popular Christian leader, with his bloc actually increasing its share of seats, from 21 in 2005 to 27 – a number exceeded only by Hariri’s bloc itself. Although Aoun’s popularity among Christians has declined, it is still evidently substantial and deep (exactly how much less than 70% remains, at this writing, unknown).
Given this, the Obama administration would do well to encourage Hariri – undoubtedly against the wishes of some of his allies – to engage Aoun in a serious manner ahead of cabinet negotiations.
US officials should also end the practice of threatening and condemning Aoun’s supporters (as several did again on the eve of the elections) and repeal the 2007 executive order that uses the US treasury department to target the FPM in America.
More than this though, the Obama administration should rapidly launch a sustained effort to engage Aoun and his supporters directly in a movement to peacefully integrate Hezbollah into the fabric of the state and army – something the FPM has said it very much wants, but which was simply not on offer during the Bush years.
Indeed, now is precisely the moment to forge just such a roadmap – with European and Arab support – when Hezbollah finds its increasingly radicalised and dangerous rhetoric (not to mention its military “entanglements”) badly out of step with the region and, crucially, with its Lebanese compatriots.
As a critical element of this, the US must make good on the empty promises of the previous administration to beef up the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) so that it can credibly defend all of the country.
Although the US has appropriated more than $400m for the LAF, less than half has actually arrived and the aid that has come overwhelmingly consists of light weapons, spare parts and transport vehicles.
Now is the time to marshal support in the US Congress and publicly announce a concrete timetable for releasing the remaining funds and equipment (hopefully with additional contributions from other Arab states) that the Hariri-led government could then use to buy the kind of heavy weapons that the LAF (and March 14) has long said it needs to offer an alternative to Hezbollah’s arms.
Finally, the Obama administration should make good on yet another empty promise of the Bush years: persuading Israel to end the issue of occupied territory and illegal military overflights of Lebanese territory in violation of international law and UN security council resolutions (pdf).
Now is the time to close the Shebaa Farms, Ghajar village and Kfar Shouba files decisively. By turning them over to temporary UN trusteeship, the Israeli government could claim to be strengthening the pro-American government in Beirut – and not handing Hezbollah a victory. (Thus ending two of the main arguments that Hezbollah uses to justify its arms.)
Moving on these fronts together would represent a dramatic departure from the Bush years that saw the Cedar revolution rise (with the support of the FPM) to end the Syrian occupation, but which quickly foundered on unrealistic assumptions of power and a narrow belief in the benefits of using of constant force and pressure.
Complemented by efforts to renew dialogue directly with Hezbollah and the wider Shia community in general – by Hariri especially, since a US role as far as Hezbollah is concerned is politically impossible at this point – the circle of engagement could be completed in an atmosphere that finally seeks to address the legitimate concerns and aspirations of the Shias through a fair political process rather than via the power that comes from having a private army (Hezbollah) or the backing of the world’s sole superpower (March 14) which all too often looked at Hezbollah’s supporters as mere terrorist-sympathisers.
Should that happen, the Cedar revolution might finally be able to claim a genuine Lebanese revolution

The dynamics that led to the massive 2006 war are complicated and involve many players and their calculations. What is certain is that it was not the result of rogue actions. Their actions were expected and authorized by the March 14 Government and still are.

That is why I have insisted that the two go together. They are not opposed to each other. They are only opposed to any Christian rising to the top. Hariri meets regularly with Hizbullah and praises the resistance and simultaneously has the audacity of accusing any Christian who talks to Hizbullah of treason.

Today, Hariri declared his wants to be Prime Minister and got the support from Hizbullah and company – not the FPM. He also declared that he plans to build as close a relationship with the “resistance” as his father had. He still calls them a “resistance”, not a militia or an illegal armed gang.

Everyone outside Lebanon seems to have expected Hizbullah to come out and spill blood in the streets. Any talk to the contrary was considered political heresy or treason. But, this is the fifth election that an armed Hizbullah has participated in and they never spilled any blood. Even though I oppose Hizbullah’s policies and objectives, I have to give them credit for being extremely disciplined. They are not roving marauders – Shiite hoodlums have always come from Amal, Speaker Berri’s party that people seem to want to talk to instead of Hizbullah.

By the way there was no blood shed at any polling stations. There were a few scuffles that were all individual in nature, and most were not related to any of the parties people expected to do this.

I cannot remember who said that “one of the ironies of life is that no one can harm another without harming themselves in the process”. I paraphrase. All this electioneering scare tactics, and campaigning for international support presented a very bad image that reflects on all of them.

Cadmus