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	<title>Comments on: The Middle East</title>
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	<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Subotai Bahadur</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35467</link>
		<dc:creator>Subotai Bahadur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>#132 Geoffgo

The project a while ago that got me researching the Israeli strategic reach was just such a Samson Option.  Without disclosing specific operational modalities [and I was accused, with truth, of not being a &quot;nice person&quot; after those modalities were reviewed.  They did not disagree with my conclusions, and they were smiling when they said it.] the State of Israel has the strategic means and capabilities to:

1) Destroy the &lt;em&gt;Ummah&lt;/em&gt; as a civilization and culture, with no hope of recovery.
2) Inflict massive and unacceptable levels of damage on all surviving nuclear powers who might threaten any surviving rump State of Israel [deterrence], or who may have aided and abetted in the destruction of the State of Israel if it should not survive [vengeance].

The variable in the strategic equation we face is Israeli will, not any limitation of resources.  Given that the Sabra spirit has died the same political death as patriotism has in this country; the issue is in doubt.

As far as a sea based nuclear deterrent, Israel has developed a 1500 km. range submarine [torpedo tube launched] based cruise missile called the POPEYE TURBO.  It is nuclear capable.  Israel has 3 German made DOLPHIN class diesel-electric/AIP submarines each capable of carrying 4 POPEYE TURBO&#039;s.  In 2006 it was announced that two more had been purchased, however I have not found any indication that they have been delivered. 

Subotai Bahadur</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#132 Geoffgo</p>
<p>The project a while ago that got me researching the Israeli strategic reach was just such a Samson Option.  Without disclosing specific operational modalities [and I was accused, with truth, of not being a "nice person" after those modalities were reviewed.  They did not disagree with my conclusions, and they were smiling when they said it.] the State of Israel has the strategic means and capabilities to:</p>
<p>1) Destroy the <em>Ummah</em> as a civilization and culture, with no hope of recovery.<br />
2) Inflict massive and unacceptable levels of damage on all surviving nuclear powers who might threaten any surviving rump State of Israel [deterrence], or who may have aided and abetted in the destruction of the State of Israel if it should not survive [vengeance].</p>
<p>The variable in the strategic equation we face is Israeli will, not any limitation of resources.  Given that the Sabra spirit has died the same political death as patriotism has in this country; the issue is in doubt.</p>
<p>As far as a sea based nuclear deterrent, Israel has developed a 1500 km. range submarine [torpedo tube launched] based cruise missile called the POPEYE TURBO.  It is nuclear capable.  Israel has 3 German made DOLPHIN class diesel-electric/AIP submarines each capable of carrying 4 POPEYE TURBO&#8217;s.  In 2006 it was announced that two more had been purchased, however I have not found any indication that they have been delivered. </p>
<p>Subotai Bahadur</p>
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		<title>By: mark_b</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35458</link>
		<dc:creator>mark_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I hope John Kerry leaves his Zippo at home this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope John Kerry leaves his Zippo at home this time.</p>
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		<title>By: 2-17-09 &#124; Drive Time Happy Hour</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35450</link>
		<dc:creator>2-17-09 &#124; Drive Time Happy Hour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Richard Fernandez: US diplomatic efforts are afoot in the Middle East.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Richard Fernandez: US diplomatic efforts are afoot in the Middle East.</p>
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		<title>By: geoffgo</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35448</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Subotai Bahadur@131

I recall reading that the Israelis also have several very quiet missile-launching subs that can decrease the ranges to selected targets.  Do you think their response can reach Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Moscow et al, after the world enables a devastating strike on their homeland?  I&#039;d be really p*ssed at the destruction, wouldn&#039;t you? I think that&#039;s called the Samson option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subotai Bahadur@131</p>
<p>I recall reading that the Israelis also have several very quiet missile-launching subs that can decrease the ranges to selected targets.  Do you think their response can reach Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Moscow et al, after the world enables a devastating strike on their homeland?  I&#8217;d be really p*ssed at the destruction, wouldn&#8217;t you? I think that&#8217;s called the Samson option.</p>
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		<title>By: Subotai Bahadur</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35441</link>
		<dc:creator>Subotai Bahadur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>#124 Bob Murphey

Israel&#039;s Jericho II&#039;s can reach the southern areas of the FSU.  Their satellite booster is functionally and ICBM.  It is interesting that while with digging, information can be found about the deployment and numbers of the Jericho II, the production rate Shavit booster also made by IAI seems to be in an information black hole.  This is not a unique event, as the Israelis take national security much more seriously than we [a Knesset member who did what our Democratic members of Congress do on a regular basis; revealing national security secrets, getting intelligence agents killed (Yes, I&#039;m talking about &lt;em&gt;Patrick Leahy&lt;/em&gt;), etc. would either be killed by a mob or take a short trip down a rope.] 

I&#039;ve done the research on Israel&#039;s capabilities.  Range circles are interesting things.  

As a general rule of thumb; if a country has the ability to place a satellite weighing 350 lbs. into an orbit 250 miles high, and choose the orbit deliberately, it possesses an ICBM capable of placing a nuclear warhead on a city sized target.  They have functional counter value strike ability anywhere in the world.  It takes much more precise guidance, similar to what Bill Clinton and the Democrats sold to the Chinese for suitcases full of cash campaign contributions, to achieve a capability of hitting close enough to a hardened target to have a counterforce capability.  

Anyone, by the way, want to bet that Israel does NOT have that precise guidance, developed independently?

Subotai Bahadur</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#124 Bob Murphey</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s Jericho II&#8217;s can reach the southern areas of the FSU.  Their satellite booster is functionally and ICBM.  It is interesting that while with digging, information can be found about the deployment and numbers of the Jericho II, the production rate Shavit booster also made by IAI seems to be in an information black hole.  This is not a unique event, as the Israelis take national security much more seriously than we [a Knesset member who did what our Democratic members of Congress do on a regular basis; revealing national security secrets, getting intelligence agents killed (Yes, I'm talking about <em>Patrick Leahy</em>), etc. would either be killed by a mob or take a short trip down a rope.] </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done the research on Israel&#8217;s capabilities.  Range circles are interesting things.  </p>
<p>As a general rule of thumb; if a country has the ability to place a satellite weighing 350 lbs. into an orbit 250 miles high, and choose the orbit deliberately, it possesses an ICBM capable of placing a nuclear warhead on a city sized target.  They have functional counter value strike ability anywhere in the world.  It takes much more precise guidance, similar to what Bill Clinton and the Democrats sold to the Chinese for suitcases full of cash campaign contributions, to achieve a capability of hitting close enough to a hardened target to have a counterforce capability.  </p>
<p>Anyone, by the way, want to bet that Israel does NOT have that precise guidance, developed independently?</p>
<p>Subotai Bahadur</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35428</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Annoy:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://images.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/02/15/b78471251z120090215102327000gdtgiseg1_md.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Your Assembly @ Work &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annoy:<br />
<a href="http://images.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/02/15/b78471251z120090215102327000gdtgiseg1_md.jpg" rel="nofollow">Your Assembly @ Work </a></p>
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		<title>By: Old Chief</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35426</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Chief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=2266#comment-35426</guid>
		<description>I got it! &quot;Helenism&quot; is the classical form of &quot;if you can&#039;t be with the one you love, love the one you are with.&quot; Or maybe, always go with the exotic guy with perfumed hair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got it! &#8220;Helenism&#8221; is the classical form of &#8220;if you can&#8217;t be with the one you love, love the one you are with.&#8221; Or maybe, always go with the exotic guy with perfumed hair?</p>
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		<title>By: Old Chief</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35422</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Chief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@34 steveaz: &quot;Helenism&quot; Now that&#039;s really funny. You probably mean &quot;Hellenism,&quot; but your spelling conjures up all sorts of funny images.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@34 steveaz: &#8220;Helenism&#8221; Now that&#8217;s really funny. You probably mean &#8220;Hellenism,&#8221; but your spelling conjures up all sorts of funny images.</p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35397</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=2266#comment-35397</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Dismantle the &quot;23A Exemptions&quot;, force leverage back to no more than 12:1, bar banks from being anything other than depositories and lenders - that is, bar them from holding anything as an asset other than whole loans.  No securitized anything.  They&#039;re free to securitize but the banks can&#039;t hold the paper; if hedge funds and others are willing to do so, then so be it.&lt;/i&gt; - Stupidity in Washington


Which means repeal of the Glass-Steagall &quot;Chinese Wall&quot; between investment and commercial banking was a mistake (Gramm Leach Bliley Act of 1999, Gramm being Phil Gramm).  The banking industry lobbied for repeal since the 1980&#039;s.  Interesting to read the arguments pro and con under the wiki entry.

Wayne Huizenga thinks second half of 2009 will be worse than 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Dismantle the &#8220;23A Exemptions&#8221;, force leverage back to no more than 12:1, bar banks from being anything other than depositories and lenders &#8211; that is, bar them from holding anything as an asset other than whole loans.  No securitized anything.  They&#8217;re free to securitize but the banks can&#8217;t hold the paper; if hedge funds and others are willing to do so, then so be it.</i> &#8211; Stupidity in Washington</p>
<p>Which means repeal of the Glass-Steagall &#8220;Chinese Wall&#8221; between investment and commercial banking was a mistake (Gramm Leach Bliley Act of 1999, Gramm being Phil Gramm).  The banking industry lobbied for repeal since the 1980&#8242;s.  Interesting to read the arguments pro and con under the wiki entry.</p>
<p>Wayne Huizenga thinks second half of 2009 will be worse than 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: lc</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/15/the-middle-east/#comment-35396</link>
		<dc:creator>lc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=2266#comment-35396</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Wretchard.  A companion piece can be found at pajamas media, Michael Ledeen&#039;s &quot;We Are All Fascits Now&quot; (two parts).  Its a shame how these political systems so completely co-opt the individual (perhaps that is true of all political movements).  All just different shades of gray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Wretchard.  A companion piece can be found at pajamas media, Michael Ledeen&#8217;s &#8220;We Are All Fascits Now&#8221; (two parts).  Its a shame how these political systems so completely co-opt the individual (perhaps that is true of all political movements).  All just different shades of gray.</p>
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