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	<title>Comments on: Hanging separately</title>
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		<title>By: whiskey</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28462</link>
		<dc:creator>whiskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28462</guid>
		<description>The most dangerous place to be is in an army facing an organized foe that has disintegrated. A force in being conducting a fighting retreat may still be annihilated, but it will exact it&#039;s own price on it&#039;s destructors, and might still win a space for some survivors. A rabble fleeing will create no such prudent hesitancy.

The Peace Process may be meeting such a force, as Israelis see a Muslim-raised President, who had growing up in Jakarta more anti-Semitism than anything short of a Klan or neo-Nazi community, imbibed with mother&#039;s milk, as presaging overt action against it at worst and at best explicit abandonment.

Obama has spoken nothing about supporting Israel, instead plays golf.

Israel may seek a &quot;Roman&quot; solution to it&#039;s existential Gaza problem. Because while Kassams are not an existential threat, consider short-range nuclear tipped missiles smuggled into Gaza by Iran. Israel must know at this point that it&#039;s quite likely Obama and his administration would support such an Iranian action, might even propose it as some grand bargain.

The American protection umbrella spread over the Israeli government and people has also &quot;stabilized&quot; the Middle East by creating a moderation of Israeli action by inserting security guarantees that worked, mostly. 

What if every Israeli is convinced Obama will sell them out to Iran in turn for some Iranian &quot;moderation&quot; and a Summit? What then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most dangerous place to be is in an army facing an organized foe that has disintegrated. A force in being conducting a fighting retreat may still be annihilated, but it will exact it&#8217;s own price on it&#8217;s destructors, and might still win a space for some survivors. A rabble fleeing will create no such prudent hesitancy.</p>
<p>The Peace Process may be meeting such a force, as Israelis see a Muslim-raised President, who had growing up in Jakarta more anti-Semitism than anything short of a Klan or neo-Nazi community, imbibed with mother&#8217;s milk, as presaging overt action against it at worst and at best explicit abandonment.</p>
<p>Obama has spoken nothing about supporting Israel, instead plays golf.</p>
<p>Israel may seek a &#8220;Roman&#8221; solution to it&#8217;s existential Gaza problem. Because while Kassams are not an existential threat, consider short-range nuclear tipped missiles smuggled into Gaza by Iran. Israel must know at this point that it&#8217;s quite likely Obama and his administration would support such an Iranian action, might even propose it as some grand bargain.</p>
<p>The American protection umbrella spread over the Israeli government and people has also &#8220;stabilized&#8221; the Middle East by creating a moderation of Israeli action by inserting security guarantees that worked, mostly. </p>
<p>What if every Israeli is convinced Obama will sell them out to Iran in turn for some Iranian &#8220;moderation&#8221; and a Summit? What then?</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28406</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28406</guid>
		<description>Wade - didn&#039;t mean to refer to you or your comment.  I had been surfing the scurvy shoals of Huffington land so I think I must have read it there.  I&#039;m glad for your update, though, that it is unlikely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wade &#8211; didn&#8217;t mean to refer to you or your comment.  I had been surfing the scurvy shoals of Huffington land so I think I must have read it there.  I&#8217;m glad for your update, though, that it is unlikely.</p>
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		<title>By: Wadeusaf</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28392</link>
		<dc:creator>Wadeusaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28392</guid>
		<description>Nahncee @ 58 referring to my statement @ 55, 
It should have read (There has been rumor that) &quot;Hamas was started by KSA as a counter to the PLO and Arafat, with US (and Israeli) blessings. Best laid plans are not best when said plans are laid bare.&quot;

&lt;i&gt;It seems so highly unlikely historically, and so likely that some little pimply-faced pipsqueak is showing off his false (and anti-American) erudition.&lt;/i&gt;
I neglected somehow to include this preface to that statement. It is not my intent to misdirect nor to misinform. There is some evidence that Hamas receives much of its funding from fundies within the KSA. Thus their ability to survive the economic strangulation that Israel and the US placed upon the Palestinians after Arafat and prior to the elections. Seems to ring true but I have nothing definitive to support the claim.

They still act like whores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nahncee @ 58 referring to my statement @ 55,<br />
It should have read (There has been rumor that) &#8220;Hamas was started by KSA as a counter to the PLO and Arafat, with US (and Israeli) blessings. Best laid plans are not best when said plans are laid bare.&#8221;</p>
<p><i>It seems so highly unlikely historically, and so likely that some little pimply-faced pipsqueak is showing off his false (and anti-American) erudition.</i><br />
I neglected somehow to include this preface to that statement. It is not my intent to misdirect nor to misinform. There is some evidence that Hamas receives much of its funding from fundies within the KSA. Thus their ability to survive the economic strangulation that Israel and the US placed upon the Palestinians after Arafat and prior to the elections. Seems to ring true but I have nothing definitive to support the claim.</p>
<p>They still act like whores.</p>
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		<title>By: Bigger Diggler</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28384</link>
		<dc:creator>Bigger Diggler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28384</guid>
		<description>The never-ending and never-sucessful Peace Process is fundamentally inhuman and contrary to human nature. War is a profoundly human endevour. It is much more interesting than the normal state of affairs. 

Peace is not a process, it is an endpoint. You have peace as soon as, and only when the enemy is anihilated and unequivically defeated to the point that it surrenders unconditionally. 

One day hopefully we will relearn the old lessons in peacemaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The never-ending and never-sucessful Peace Process is fundamentally inhuman and contrary to human nature. War is a profoundly human endevour. It is much more interesting than the normal state of affairs. </p>
<p>Peace is not a process, it is an endpoint. You have peace as soon as, and only when the enemy is anihilated and unequivically defeated to the point that it surrenders unconditionally. </p>
<p>One day hopefully we will relearn the old lessons in peacemaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Eggplant</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28382</link>
		<dc:creator>Eggplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28382</guid>
		<description>In the previous thread, Rickl said:

&quot;Nevertheless, I have lately concluded that the Left represents the most immediate threat to my liberty, rather than the Islamists. Both will have to be defeated and destroyed one way or the other if Western civilization is to survive.&quot;

The Left has gone &quot;all in&quot; with Obama.  Their credibility will rise or fall based upon Obama&#039;s success.  IMHO, the Left has made a really stupid bargain.  Obama has no previous executive experience and has previously shown very poor judgment, e.g. Ayers, Wright, etc.  

Obama is now in his honeymoon period.  From now until about April, the MSM will blame the consequences of all of Obama&#039;s bad decisions upon previous actions by President Bush.  That narrative will run out of steam after April.  I&#039;ve got my fingers crossed that there will be no 9/11 type attacks between now and April.  President Bush&#039;s greatest achievement was in shielding us from follow-on 9/11 type attacks.  Consequently, the next 9/11 type attack will have Obama&#039;s name written on the side of it.  The new narrative will be:  &quot;Despite all his faults, President Bush protected us from the terrorists!&quot;

Also Obama is in a lose-lose situation with the economy.  Probably the best thing the government could do now is to do nothing and let the markets sort themselves out, e.g. allow the US automobile industry to go through the Chapter-11 process.  However the MSM and Obama&#039;s constituents will not allow Obama that option.  He will have to to do ***something*** and anything he does will appear to be both ineffective and expensive.

In the long wrong, Obama can&#039;t win.  Conservatives need to position themselves to fill the void after Obama&#039;s popularity implodes.  That should happen prior to 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the previous thread, Rickl said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Nevertheless, I have lately concluded that the Left represents the most immediate threat to my liberty, rather than the Islamists. Both will have to be defeated and destroyed one way or the other if Western civilization is to survive.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Left has gone &#8220;all in&#8221; with Obama.  Their credibility will rise or fall based upon Obama&#8217;s success.  IMHO, the Left has made a really stupid bargain.  Obama has no previous executive experience and has previously shown very poor judgment, e.g. Ayers, Wright, etc.  </p>
<p>Obama is now in his honeymoon period.  From now until about April, the MSM will blame the consequences of all of Obama&#8217;s bad decisions upon previous actions by President Bush.  That narrative will run out of steam after April.  I&#8217;ve got my fingers crossed that there will be no 9/11 type attacks between now and April.  President Bush&#8217;s greatest achievement was in shielding us from follow-on 9/11 type attacks.  Consequently, the next 9/11 type attack will have Obama&#8217;s name written on the side of it.  The new narrative will be:  &#8220;Despite all his faults, President Bush protected us from the terrorists!&#8221;</p>
<p>Also Obama is in a lose-lose situation with the economy.  Probably the best thing the government could do now is to do nothing and let the markets sort themselves out, e.g. allow the US automobile industry to go through the Chapter-11 process.  However the MSM and Obama&#8217;s constituents will not allow Obama that option.  He will have to to do ***something*** and anything he does will appear to be both ineffective and expensive.</p>
<p>In the long wrong, Obama can&#8217;t win.  Conservatives need to position themselves to fill the void after Obama&#8217;s popularity implodes.  That should happen prior to 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: LFMayor</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28381</link>
		<dc:creator>LFMayor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28381</guid>
		<description>Re: #56  Programmer, the left hasn&#039;t scurried because the disaster(s) have so far been localized, but also that they have no sense of shame. They&#039;re just not wired the same as you (us) so they don&#039;t experience it as a decent human would, therefore they won&#039;t spontaneously convert when simply viewing it from afar.  Alas, direct application doesn&#039;t seem to bring positive results, either.  Peter Boston has it dead center.

If you hold them to the Palestinian model as you mentioned, it seems an affirmation in my belief that they cannot be brought across the line into reason/humanity/productivity.  


Reminds me of this from a Pournelle paperback of compilations, from Analog, I believe: 
http://down.4dots.com/19814/Tribesman.rtf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #56  Programmer, the left hasn&#8217;t scurried because the disaster(s) have so far been localized, but also that they have no sense of shame. They&#8217;re just not wired the same as you (us) so they don&#8217;t experience it as a decent human would, therefore they won&#8217;t spontaneously convert when simply viewing it from afar.  Alas, direct application doesn&#8217;t seem to bring positive results, either.  Peter Boston has it dead center.</p>
<p>If you hold them to the Palestinian model as you mentioned, it seems an affirmation in my belief that they cannot be brought across the line into reason/humanity/productivity.  </p>
<p>Reminds me of this from a Pournelle paperback of compilations, from Analog, I believe:<br />
<a href="http://down.4dots.com/19814/Tribesman.rtf" rel="nofollow">http://down.4dots.com/19814/Tribesman.rtf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lifeofthemind</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28380</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifeofthemind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28380</guid>
		<description>Abdullah of Amman has made noises about reevaluating the peace with Israel. If he does then he falls into the position of prisoner of those forces that his father spent 40 years  saving his country from. The Hashemites will fall and Israel will be able to insist on reuniting Ramallah and Amman. The winners would be the Palestinians, who would have a viable state if they wanted one. The big losers would be the Gazans and Hamas and Egypt and Syria and Hezbollah and Iran, and their enablers in Russia and the EU. Powerful set of forces working against this but Abdullah is proving much less adept than his father.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abdullah of Amman has made noises about reevaluating the peace with Israel. If he does then he falls into the position of prisoner of those forces that his father spent 40 years  saving his country from. The Hashemites will fall and Israel will be able to insist on reuniting Ramallah and Amman. The winners would be the Palestinians, who would have a viable state if they wanted one. The big losers would be the Gazans and Hamas and Egypt and Syria and Hezbollah and Iran, and their enablers in Russia and the EU. Powerful set of forces working against this but Abdullah is proving much less adept than his father.</p>
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		<title>By: RattlerGator</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28378</link>
		<dc:creator>RattlerGator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28378</guid>
		<description>Peter Boston, thanks for the reminder. Culture does drive the train,so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Boston, thanks for the reminder. Culture does drive the train,so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: NahnCee</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28377</link>
		<dc:creator>NahnCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28377</guid>
		<description>I just read on another site that Hamas was set up and funded by Saudi Arabia and the USA, as a counterweight to Fatah.  Is that true?  

It seems so highly unlikely historically, and so likely that some little pimply-faced pipsqueak is showing off his false (and anti-American) erudition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read on another site that Hamas was set up and funded by Saudi Arabia and the USA, as a counterweight to Fatah.  Is that true?  </p>
<p>It seems so highly unlikely historically, and so likely that some little pimply-faced pipsqueak is showing off his false (and anti-American) erudition.</p>
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		<title>By: slade</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/01/03/hanging-separately/#comment-28376</link>
		<dc:creator>slade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=1685#comment-28376</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“Can it happen to me?” It is between those who see the terrorists as real and those who see the terrorists as imaginary.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s also an Us versus Them mindset - We are One, We are the World versus those of Us who tried hard not to imagine the Arafat bedroom scene.  We are One People, as the starting premise, precludes violence, in fact, conflict. (Ref (via Doug) Steyn&#039;s &quot;An Ace is just a social construct&quot; speech dissecting multiculturalism like a dead frog.)  The first step is believing in the differences.  The threats become more real.  What is hard for me to imagine, let alone believe, is that this country allowed itself to become so weak.  I think of Clinton&#039;s trillion dollar relationship with the emir of Dubai.  I think of the revolving door between Washington and international lobbying groups.  I think of a Congress incapable of preventing the UN from giving close to a billion dollars to Iran in humanitarian aid.

While the country is entertained by channeling Madoff, Blago, Carolyn, and Sharpton as Steve Martin and Dan Ackroyd doing Two Wild and Crazy Guys or Bill Murray and Gilda Radner doing Todd and whats-her-name.

Understanding multiculturalism is like deconstructing nihilism.  A worthy post-modern Master&#039;s Thesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Can it happen to me?” It is between those who see the terrorists as real and those who see the terrorists as imaginary.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s also an Us versus Them mindset &#8211; We are One, We are the World versus those of Us who tried hard not to imagine the Arafat bedroom scene.  We are One People, as the starting premise, precludes violence, in fact, conflict. (Ref (via Doug) Steyn&#8217;s &#8220;An Ace is just a social construct&#8221; speech dissecting multiculturalism like a dead frog.)  The first step is believing in the differences.  The threats become more real.  What is hard for me to imagine, let alone believe, is that this country allowed itself to become so weak.  I think of Clinton&#8217;s trillion dollar relationship with the emir of Dubai.  I think of the revolving door between Washington and international lobbying groups.  I think of a Congress incapable of preventing the UN from giving close to a billion dollars to Iran in humanitarian aid.</p>
<p>While the country is entertained by channeling Madoff, Blago, Carolyn, and Sharpton as Steve Martin and Dan Ackroyd doing Two Wild and Crazy Guys or Bill Murray and Gilda Radner doing Todd and whats-her-name.</p>
<p>Understanding multiculturalism is like deconstructing nihilism.  A worthy post-modern Master&#8217;s Thesis.</p>
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