Comments on: From readers

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:02:11 +0000

No no no Tim, it’s RWE and Jaymaster who are criticizing here, THEY know…. after all Jaymaster did something kinda similar fifteen years ago and RWE does exactly the same thing (except different). Never mind that both of the gys in teh video have dedicated their lives to the art including deploying several times as shooters (in uniform and out). Like I said, everyone is a critic…

By: Tim

Tim — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:31:50 +0000

These two men know what they are doing – and their training is state of the art. They’re very much the real deal.

Jaymaster, you’d probably be rather surprised at the accuracy they’re achieving, even while moving.

By: RWE

RWE — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:12:42 +0000

Jaymaster: Just what I was thinking in my comment about them not seeming to look around. One or two guys with automatic weapons to flank them and they would have been toast.

Of course, their cover was minimal, too and that was hardly realistic, either

By: kaba

kaba — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:42:59 +0000

Very similar to tactics I learned in Army Basic Training in 1968. As Jaymaster suggested, the mover didn’t shoot. It takes an exceptional marksman to hit something on the move and actually slows the mover down while he is in the open.

By: Starling

Starling — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:31:34 +0000

How about the closing scene of Mr. and Mrs. Smith

By: jaymaster

jaymaster — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:16:14 +0000

Yep, that’s the way we practiced it back in ‘91 or thereabouts. We were a bit more conservative with ammo tough. The advancing buddy was more direct or controlled with his fire. More sniper like, if you will. There is usually no need to rush things, anyway.

And the following buddy didn’t fire at all while he was moving. That was assumed to be a waste of ammo, since it’s so hard to hit something while you’re running. Plus it’s sure to attract attention.

Now, I should have added, if you encounter a group with training like a bunch of marines or anyone with automatic weapons and a bit of discipline, you’re toast. Then, retreat. Unless you’re on a suicidal jihadi mission. Then it’s all dates and virgins.

Otherwise, against 95% of the world, it’s a very successful tactic.

By: JavaThread

JavaThread — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:59:33 +0000

Gabe Suarez teaches civilians and writes on similar team tactics:
http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/

From reading Suarez’s newsletters, the one flaw I can see in this video is the way they discard empty magazines. You’ll rarely be in a situation of infinite supply, so save the empty magazines.

By: RWE

RWE — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:56:42 +0000

I noticed they seemed to scan the area when they started the exercise but after that seemed to focus just on the targets. Of course, the video may not have presented the full picture.

And in my business we do range ops just like the real ones, lacking only the fire, smoke, and loud noise.

By: JAK

JAK — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:56:02 +0000

Everybody is a critic, especially those with no experience. They may be focused on the closest threat, but you can rest assured, RWE, that they are scanning as they were moving.

Keep in mind that this is a range exercise and not the “real thing”, if it were real they would not be operating alone but as a small part of a larger operation. The only people who operate as sole pairs are crazies.

By: RWE

RWE — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:25:59 +0000

Buddy Pair tactics seem to be a lot like the Rotte invented by the German Condor Legion in the Spanish Civil War.

The normal formation used by fighter aircraft consisted of 3 aircraft, a leader and two wingman, flying in a “V” formation. This seemed logical and more importantly looked nice for flying in airshows. The Germans introduced a brilliant tactical innovation in Spain, the Rotte, consisting of two aircraft, a leader and his wingman. Two Rotten formed a Schwarm of four aircraft. This proved to be far more flexible than the V formation, since it could break up into two Rotten operating independently.

Ironically, this brilliant innovation came from necessity. The Germans had so few Me-109’s in Spain that sticking to formations of three aircraft would have often left one fighter on the ground. They usually had only four 109’s available and not six, so they used all of what they had.

The terrorist use of this tactic probably had much the same basis. They had a limited number of people, and wanted to maximize the damage they could do.

One thing I was surprised at in the video is that unlike fighter pilots the shooters did not seem to be watching for threats.