I agree with you 100% on the nature of those cultures. But here is where the arguments go circular: these places don’t work as they are, yet they don’t seem to work as we might imagine them. They seem to make choices that are baffling to us; their notions of ‘self-interest’ are light years away from your and mine.

At some point, America needs to ask itself how much effort we should put in for these people. Look at how happy the Iraqi’s are with our help. Oddly, Hussein was the sort of guy who kept a lid on the some of sort of thing going on in Pstan. There were reasons that we supported Saddam, back in the day – at least he wasn’t a religious nut (just a sadist). The Christians and the few odd jews they had in Iraq have just been trashed since Saddam was removed.

Many options. All bad. Sigh. Maybe we should have left Mosaddeq alone in 1953…

Also, BT, the problem with Pakistan would remain even if it was broken up into Punjab, Pashtunistan, Balochistan, Kashmir and Sindh. All are tribal societies, and the tribal rivalries and frequent, bloody raids would continue within and across borders even if the ethnic nationalities had their own nation states. Plus, Sindh and Balochistan would be the only pieces of Pakistan with a sea port. The other parts would be land-bound just like Afghanistan, and would soon be just as primitive as Afghanistan. The war against Pakistani Christians and other non-Muslims would get worse, not better. And the breakup of the USSR should provide an instructive example of what happens to nuclear and conventional munitions when a Frankenstein’s monster of a state collapses into rival pieces.

(At one point, management rearranged the page so that a poster’s name would be at the top of the post, rather than at the end, so you’d know what you could safely skip.)

Cedarford must be onto something. Usually when the anti-semite charges are trotted out, you know you’re getting close to the target.

I wish Staring was right about the Pakistanis. One of the problems there is that some of the national boundaries are not really seen as legitimate. The ‘tribal areas’ of Pakistan exist because the demarcation (Durand Line) between Pstan and Astan were largely rejected by the inhabitants themselves. For those (Pashtun) areas, they are rationally fighting their own governments.

Back to Pakistan, it would be nice to site down and re-draw many of the national lines in that part of the world. Won’t happen, but would be nice. Look at Iraq – Kurdistan, and the shiite sections of Iraq should have gone to Iran if you wanted to make a logical nation-state. These are countries that do not have logical foundations, so they do things that seem illogical (quite logically). Israel/Palestine/Jordan/Lebanon is a similarly ill-drawn geopolitical contraption.

And doesn’t Africa seem the same way to anyone? Nations that don’t match tribal / ethnic lines, or natural boundaries are often not usually stable, and war is the result.

Well of course you are, dear. “O” is universal symbol for obesity or in more polite society – and we are polite – rotund. But don’t despair, the new 12-step Obanomics program is hope for a leaner meaner You.

Or at least your portfolio if not your port-side.

There is one thing to cling to vis Pakistan – it is in NOBODY’S INTEREST for the country to tear itself apart or blow up the region ESPECIALLY the Paki’s themselves. Now, admittedly, in that part of the world the smart, long term play for peace and stability is often ignored (not being as pragmatic-minded a lot as us Westerners), but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen. If the “noble, purple fingered” Iraqi’s have proven anything, it’s that by and large, people just want to make a decent living, have families and live their lives in reasonable safety, AND WILL DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO EVENTUALLY. When given a REAL CHOICE, they tend to choose RATIONALLY, even in a Muslim society. Politicians will always do what is in their personal, PERCEIVED self interest, not what is truly in their nations long term best interest. When the perception in Pakistan reaches critical mass that something has to be done to save their miserable lives from wanton cruelty, murder, and/or starvation, I will bet that they will do the MINIMUM it takes, and keep stumbling along. The French Riviera it will never be, but given stark choices, people will choose bread, not religion, and life, not ideology.

We have the shining example of “Progressives” over the past 8 years to lead us.

Violence in Iraq because we intervened? Obama’s fault.

Voilence in Darfur because we didn’t intervene? Obama’s fault.

And, most important of all: Obama got elected promising change. He’s been president elect for almost a week, and I’m STILL FAT. It’s Obama’s fault.

Lamont

Or mined, one might say.

I also see a pattern of remarks by followers in the past year that appear designed to flag websites for closure at some later date. Watch for any self-righteous condemnation against a forum or a blog, possibly combined with some nebulous threat.

As a rule, I am careful about what I say and how I say it. I think it is important to speak out on important issues with measured language.

Late last week, after a brief chat with the One, the Russians indicated that the Messiah would cede to their demands of eliminating SDI in Eastern Europe.

Then President Kaczynski of Poland, after consultation with the all knowing Messiah, assured us that the Messiah had said ” the missile defense project will continue”.

Now, our all knowing and all caring Messiah has admonished us from on high that he has not made a commitment to missile defense in Eastern Europe.

The great clarity of the Messiah be praised!

It is I, a lowly heretic that is confused. I must study the hadith of our great Messiah further to discover the true “truths” of his message. I mistakenly and wrongly remember an impression made by our glorious Messiah in the first debate that missile defense was important to the defense of Eastern Europe.

I suspect that, still being the strongest (militarily) country in the world, we would fly them out the same way we got them in. What would be left behind would be millions (billions?) of $ of equipment which (if we were wise) would be destroyed.