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	<title>Comments on: Below the horizon</title>
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		<title>By: Ravalli County News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ignoring Iran&#8217;s Aggression</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18993</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravalli County News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ignoring Iran&#8217;s Aggression</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18993</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;&#8230; the problem of Iran’s aggression is a ‘known known’. But the lack of emphasis o... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;&#8230; the problem of Iran’s aggression is a ‘known known’. But the lack of emphasis o&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Skubinna</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18447</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Skubinna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18447</guid>
		<description>Now that the election is only two weeks away, the NYT and the rest of the MSM figures it&#039;s safe to admit what others have known all along about Iranian involvement.  After all, it isn&#039;t as if they&#039;re giving Bush&#039;s administration credit for being right.

Watch - after the election, assuming Obama wins, there will be a gradual rehabilitation of Dubya by the press, as Obama finds himself living in the same world and dealing with the same problems, and facing the need to rely on the sam esolutions.  It will be akin to the press discovering, after 1990, that Reagan was right about the USSR.

That&#039;s if Obama wins.  Otherwise, we&#039;ll be hearing ad nauseum about McCain &quot;continuing the discredited and disastrous policies of the failed Bush administration.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that the election is only two weeks away, the NYT and the rest of the MSM figures it&#8217;s safe to admit what others have known all along about Iranian involvement.  After all, it isn&#8217;t as if they&#8217;re giving Bush&#8217;s administration credit for being right.</p>
<p>Watch &#8211; after the election, assuming Obama wins, there will be a gradual rehabilitation of Dubya by the press, as Obama finds himself living in the same world and dealing with the same problems, and facing the need to rely on the sam esolutions.  It will be akin to the press discovering, after 1990, that Reagan was right about the USSR.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s if Obama wins.  Otherwise, we&#8217;ll be hearing ad nauseum about McCain &#8220;continuing the discredited and disastrous policies of the failed Bush administration.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: whit</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18446</link>
		<dc:creator>whit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18446</guid>
		<description>I see disillusionment in the future for the acolytes who somehow manage to break the spell. So much hope and faith placed in a man is bound to bring disappointment and despair. The true believers though, those who remain enchanted will follow their leader to the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see disillusionment in the future for the acolytes who somehow manage to break the spell. So much hope and faith placed in a man is bound to bring disappointment and despair. The true believers though, those who remain enchanted will follow their leader to the end.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18417</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18417</guid>
		<description>I had a pleasant black nurse prep me yesterday for an in office procedure. I did not say anything political to her but I thought that if she believes that O&#039;s regime will help her and her family, she will learn that she was greatly deceived.
 The pseudo-intellectual &quot;class&quot; in the West only cares for their own position. They do not even train their children to retain the power and position they have. Some of the kids will retain the power because of their inherited wealth and the support of the people hired to support them.
 The British aristocracy was able to cultivate the support of the intelligent lower classes by establishing a good educational system. The pre revolutionary Russian system had a good educational system for non peasants but they alienated the intelligent men who saw that most of the Russian aristocrats were drunken fools. Although English writers such as Dickens tried to pain a similar picture of the English upper class the reality was better than their fiction.
 Here we have a semi educated (with college degrees of all sorts) political elite who allow their children to be &quot;educated&quot; by other semi educated academics and teachers with &quot;degrees&quot;.
 Most of my undergraduates can not cope in a tough world, not because they are stupid but because they have never been properly stressed. I will not nor can not go against the tide.
 At least my daughter can cope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a pleasant black nurse prep me yesterday for an in office procedure. I did not say anything political to her but I thought that if she believes that O&#8217;s regime will help her and her family, she will learn that she was greatly deceived.<br />
 The pseudo-intellectual &#8220;class&#8221; in the West only cares for their own position. They do not even train their children to retain the power and position they have. Some of the kids will retain the power because of their inherited wealth and the support of the people hired to support them.<br />
 The British aristocracy was able to cultivate the support of the intelligent lower classes by establishing a good educational system. The pre revolutionary Russian system had a good educational system for non peasants but they alienated the intelligent men who saw that most of the Russian aristocrats were drunken fools. Although English writers such as Dickens tried to pain a similar picture of the English upper class the reality was better than their fiction.<br />
 Here we have a semi educated (with college degrees of all sorts) political elite who allow their children to be &#8220;educated&#8221; by other semi educated academics and teachers with &#8220;degrees&#8221;.<br />
 Most of my undergraduates can not cope in a tough world, not because they are stupid but because they have never been properly stressed. I will not nor can not go against the tide.<br />
 At least my daughter can cope.</p>
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		<title>By: AZM</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18291</link>
		<dc:creator>AZM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 03:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18291</guid>
		<description>Wretchard at 14. (4:14 p.m.)

&lt;&gt;

This is why this blog is so interesting - and entertaining. 

I hope conservatives have the gumption to act as you envision. The odds are slightly in favor that we will (there are a large number of situations that can sink a single individual without wetting a nation, by way of weak analogy) but the question is this: how will the opinion be shaped after the fact? Of our own actions we can be somewhat sure. Of the actions of the opinion-formers, nothing can be properly known at this time. 

What we do know is that success has many parents and that failure is an orphan. The heat of Obama&#039;s promise-everything-to-everybody kitchen is about to orphan many souls.

When push comes to shove, Obama will be shoved under the bus by his supporters, in much the same way as as he sacrificed his own friends and suporters. It will be a political murder of convenience. Or, it may be a political murder arising from quashed ideals. Either way, some insiders will say to themselves &quot;it was for a bigger cause&quot;.

It will not be a big surprise to Obama to discover that many of his supporters think America is a far bigger cause than Obama. But, it will come as somehwhat of a painful surprise to Obama that he is not going to be able to bribe or talk them away from that conclusion. Such is the price of Obama&#039;s messianic electoral success. The ones who believe without question today, are likely to be heart-broken and beyond the pale of reason tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wretchard at 14. (4:14 p.m.)</p>
<p>&lt;&gt;</p>
<p>This is why this blog is so interesting &#8211; and entertaining. </p>
<p>I hope conservatives have the gumption to act as you envision. The odds are slightly in favor that we will (there are a large number of situations that can sink a single individual without wetting a nation, by way of weak analogy) but the question is this: how will the opinion be shaped after the fact? Of our own actions we can be somewhat sure. Of the actions of the opinion-formers, nothing can be properly known at this time. </p>
<p>What we do know is that success has many parents and that failure is an orphan. The heat of Obama&#8217;s promise-everything-to-everybody kitchen is about to orphan many souls.</p>
<p>When push comes to shove, Obama will be shoved under the bus by his supporters, in much the same way as as he sacrificed his own friends and suporters. It will be a political murder of convenience. Or, it may be a political murder arising from quashed ideals. Either way, some insiders will say to themselves &#8220;it was for a bigger cause&#8221;.</p>
<p>It will not be a big surprise to Obama to discover that many of his supporters think America is a far bigger cause than Obama. But, it will come as somehwhat of a painful surprise to Obama that he is not going to be able to bribe or talk them away from that conclusion. Such is the price of Obama&#8217;s messianic electoral success. The ones who believe without question today, are likely to be heart-broken and beyond the pale of reason tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: whiskey</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18268</link>
		<dc:creator>whiskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 01:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18268</guid>
		<description>Conservatives are unlikely to take Obama&#039;s side, or institutionally defend him. Any more than the NYT defended Nixon, or most GOP pols defended Clinton.

Obama, should he run into trouble, which is likely, given his inclination stated by Biden, Powell, and Jackson, to either sell Israel down the river to Iran, or actively assist in it&#039;s liquidation and second Holocaust, will get impeached. And convicted.

Or it might be Open Borders and instant citizenship, or Reparations for Slavery, or other things Obama simply cannot refrain from doing simply to stick it to his &quot;enemies&quot; the White Middle/Working class. A man who attended Trinity for 20 years hates Whites and has a lifetime habit of White-baiting. Because it gets him applause and support from Black supporters, and proves he is &quot;Black Enough.&quot;

See: Alicia Keys and her AK-47 Jewelry, support for Louis Farrakhan.

Obama is not Bill Clinton, nor is his team Begala and Carville, eyes on the Bubba Prize. It&#039;s Ayers, Axelrod, Wright, Powers, Khalidi, and the rest who want a weak and humbled America, a destroyed Israel as an object lesson and &quot;morality tale&quot; and to wreak vengeance on the White Working class, the largest Demographic group.

It&#039;s more like Obama, Jonestown. The Messianic imagery, and all that pretty much guarantees it. It&#039;s not like I have not blogged on Obama = Jonestown extensively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservatives are unlikely to take Obama&#8217;s side, or institutionally defend him. Any more than the NYT defended Nixon, or most GOP pols defended Clinton.</p>
<p>Obama, should he run into trouble, which is likely, given his inclination stated by Biden, Powell, and Jackson, to either sell Israel down the river to Iran, or actively assist in it&#8217;s liquidation and second Holocaust, will get impeached. And convicted.</p>
<p>Or it might be Open Borders and instant citizenship, or Reparations for Slavery, or other things Obama simply cannot refrain from doing simply to stick it to his &#8220;enemies&#8221; the White Middle/Working class. A man who attended Trinity for 20 years hates Whites and has a lifetime habit of White-baiting. Because it gets him applause and support from Black supporters, and proves he is &#8220;Black Enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>See: Alicia Keys and her AK-47 Jewelry, support for Louis Farrakhan.</p>
<p>Obama is not Bill Clinton, nor is his team Begala and Carville, eyes on the Bubba Prize. It&#8217;s Ayers, Axelrod, Wright, Powers, Khalidi, and the rest who want a weak and humbled America, a destroyed Israel as an object lesson and &#8220;morality tale&#8221; and to wreak vengeance on the White Working class, the largest Demographic group.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more like Obama, Jonestown. The Messianic imagery, and all that pretty much guarantees it. It&#8217;s not like I have not blogged on Obama = Jonestown extensively.</p>
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		<title>By: cedarford</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18253</link>
		<dc:creator>cedarford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18253</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“Obama is the product of something larger than himself; an expression of an elite class.”&lt;/i&gt;

Bush saw his Presidency as an expression of something larger than himself: (1) He was the agent for fellow Corporatists, part of The Team. Of those great men like himself that through brains and pluck - became wealthy - yet for the good of the country, needed to become richer and more powerful. Bush called them &quot;His Base&quot;. He didn&#039;t see working to transfer more of the country&#039;s wealth and power to them as screwing the working poor and middle class, because Bush was a believer in Supply Side economics and &quot;trickledown&quot;
(2) As an evangelical, he saw bigger government as compassionate conservatism as Jesus preached - and Christian Zionism as biblical truth. Thus what he was doing on budgets and in foreign policy was just being the facilitator of truthful things bigger than himself  - things the Big Pharma and defense contractor lobbyists and Neocons just articulated better than he did.

Obama may be an avatar from interests outside DC, but if he is an avatar of others, he may still be better to bring change to Gov&#039;t than Lifetime Senators like McCain and Biden. Longtime DC Insiders who believe in nothing but making &quot;The Deal&quot;. Everything is negotiable.

Nothing quite like a 30-year man who has done little to fix a situation previously now declaring the thing is broken and he can fix it.

Of course, a woman and a black man who have 3 years of experience between the two of them  - looking in from the outside? And proudly saying they have the mettle to start fixing things when they have never fixed anything of consequence, also should be met with skepticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Obama is the product of something larger than himself; an expression of an elite class.”</i></p>
<p>Bush saw his Presidency as an expression of something larger than himself: (1) He was the agent for fellow Corporatists, part of The Team. Of those great men like himself that through brains and pluck &#8211; became wealthy &#8211; yet for the good of the country, needed to become richer and more powerful. Bush called them &#8220;His Base&#8221;. He didn&#8217;t see working to transfer more of the country&#8217;s wealth and power to them as screwing the working poor and middle class, because Bush was a believer in Supply Side economics and &#8220;trickledown&#8221;<br />
(2) As an evangelical, he saw bigger government as compassionate conservatism as Jesus preached &#8211; and Christian Zionism as biblical truth. Thus what he was doing on budgets and in foreign policy was just being the facilitator of truthful things bigger than himself  &#8211; things the Big Pharma and defense contractor lobbyists and Neocons just articulated better than he did.</p>
<p>Obama may be an avatar from interests outside DC, but if he is an avatar of others, he may still be better to bring change to Gov&#8217;t than Lifetime Senators like McCain and Biden. Longtime DC Insiders who believe in nothing but making &#8220;The Deal&#8221;. Everything is negotiable.</p>
<p>Nothing quite like a 30-year man who has done little to fix a situation previously now declaring the thing is broken and he can fix it.</p>
<p>Of course, a woman and a black man who have 3 years of experience between the two of them  &#8211; looking in from the outside? And proudly saying they have the mettle to start fixing things when they have never fixed anything of consequence, also should be met with skepticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18252</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18252</guid>
		<description>Heard today that obama is raking in 200K per Hour.

Its not likely that all that money is domestic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heard today that obama is raking in 200K per Hour.</p>
<p>Its not likely that all that money is domestic.</p>
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		<title>By: wretchard</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18251</link>
		<dc:creator>wretchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18251</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What will the people do when they find their Messiah has feet of clay?&lt;/i&gt;

The question is what the conservatives will do. There&#039;s a convincing case for a moral obligation to help the President succeed no matter what you may think of him personally. Loyalty to the institution rather than to the man. But the problem with this simple formula is that is asymmetrical with respect to schemers. Stalin rose to the top because many cadres felt a loyalty to the Revolution but Stalin felt a loyalty only to himself. In Uncle Joe&#039;s famous words, &quot;Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem.&quot;

When you&#039;re faced with schemers like that, it pays to be a little more sophisticated. The key will be to help solve the problems which will inevitably come as the Messiah&#039;s feet eventually run off in muddy rivulets but in such a way as to highlight their causes. Santayana said, &quot;those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it&quot;. I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s quite true, but at least it&#039;s entertaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What will the people do when they find their Messiah has feet of clay?</i></p>
<p>The question is what the conservatives will do. There&#8217;s a convincing case for a moral obligation to help the President succeed no matter what you may think of him personally. Loyalty to the institution rather than to the man. But the problem with this simple formula is that is asymmetrical with respect to schemers. Stalin rose to the top because many cadres felt a loyalty to the Revolution but Stalin felt a loyalty only to himself. In Uncle Joe&#8217;s famous words, &#8220;Death is the solution to all problems. No man &#8211; no problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re faced with schemers like that, it pays to be a little more sophisticated. The key will be to help solve the problems which will inevitably come as the Messiah&#8217;s feet eventually run off in muddy rivulets but in such a way as to highlight their causes. Santayana said, &#8220;those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it&#8221;. I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s quite true, but at least it&#8217;s entertaining.</p>
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		<title>By: whit</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/10/21/below-the-horizon/#comment-18248</link>
		<dc:creator>whit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/?p=608#comment-18248</guid>
		<description>What will the people do when they find their Messiah has feet of clay?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What will the people do when they find their Messiah has feet of clay?</p>
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