Comments on: The Black Sea http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/ Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog Thu, 16 Feb 2012 05:47:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: truth speaker http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8971 truth speaker Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:28:33 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8971 well, it actually does not prove anything at all. for instance, tskhinvali is also known as chreba within osetians… georgia kingdom was stronger in military terms, georgians had better developed state and corresponding governmental structures. osetians were considered as savage people. there was a big deal of georgian chauvinism regarding these people. georgian kingdom was actively assimilating abkhazians and osetians. for instanse, even during soviet rule – abkhazian language was banned. everything had to be written in georgian language only. osetian and abkhazian schools were banned. education was allowed in georgian only. interesting, that it was contradicting general soviet standards. everywhere in ussr, national republics had two official languages – russian and local. local language was legally enforced everywhere – official paperwork, street plates e.t.c.. everywhere, but georgia.. well, it actually does not prove anything at all.
for instance, tskhinvali is also known as chreba within osetians…
georgia kingdom was stronger in military terms, georgians had better developed state and corresponding governmental structures. osetians were considered as savage people. there was a big deal of georgian chauvinism regarding these people.
georgian kingdom was actively assimilating abkhazians and osetians.
for instanse, even during soviet rule – abkhazian language was banned. everything had to be written in georgian language only. osetian and abkhazian schools were banned. education was allowed in georgian only.
interesting, that it was contradicting general soviet standards.
everywhere in ussr, national republics had two official languages – russian and local.
local language was legally enforced everywhere – official paperwork, street plates e.t.c..
everywhere, but georgia..

]]> By: Ricardo http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8954 Ricardo Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:55:16 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8954 Why is it that some people worry incessantly about something we did or did not do as the cause of Russian misconduct, or that if we had done this or that differently, Russians might have reacted in a better way? That is a perverted form of provincialism. The Russians are following their own internal dynamic. I just finished reading the book on Litivenko's assasination written by Alex Goldfarb (and Litivenko's wife), and it details the rise and fall of the oligarchs as well as the rise of Putin and the FSB. The entire Georgia operation (misinformation dissemination, violent undercover operations to provoke justification for reprisals, be it invasions of adjacent territories, or elimination of political adversaries, etc) is a replay of what has been going on inside Russia since the early nineties. This is SOP for Russian politicians. Forget the injured national pride, yadda yadda, THIS is how each of their leaders rises to power. They dispose of any perceived rival by any means available, including the murder of civilians, and when they reach the top they play the game on a larger scale. Why is it that some people worry incessantly about something we did or did not do as the cause of Russian misconduct, or that if we had done this or that differently, Russians might have reacted in a better way?
That is a perverted form of provincialism.
The Russians are following their own internal dynamic. I just finished reading the book on Litivenko’s assasination written by Alex Goldfarb (and Litivenko’s wife), and it details the rise and fall of the oligarchs as well as the rise of Putin and the FSB. The entire Georgia operation (misinformation dissemination, violent undercover operations to provoke justification for reprisals, be it invasions of adjacent territories, or elimination of political adversaries, etc) is a replay of what has been going on inside Russia since the early nineties. This is SOP for Russian politicians.
Forget the injured national pride, yadda yadda, THIS is how each of their leaders rises to power. They dispose of any perceived rival by any means available, including the murder of civilians, and when they reach the top they play the game on a larger scale.

]]> By: Bob Murphy http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8933 Bob Murphy Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:18:53 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8933 Nice point, 2x4. Nice point, 2×4.

]]> By: 2x4 http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8931 2x4 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:21:59 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8931 Tell me, what language do you think was used for naming Sochi, Sukhumi, Tskhinvali? There are several villages in Abkhazia that have Abkhazian names. All larger towns and cities have Georgian names. There is only handful of local names in S Ossetia that are Ossetian, the rest is Georgian names. If what you saying is true, please explain how is it possible that almost all the localities have Georgian names and are known by these names for centuries? Tell me, what language do you think was used for naming Sochi, Sukhumi, Tskhinvali? There are several villages in Abkhazia that have Abkhazian names. All larger towns and cities have Georgian names. There is only handful of local names in S Ossetia that are Ossetian, the rest is Georgian names. If what you saying is true, please explain how is it possible that almost all the localities have Georgian names and are known by these names for centuries?

]]> By: truth speaker http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8930 truth speaker Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:09:13 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8930 it is really funny to see how historical facts were manipulated in west media. you have to remember guys, south osetia never been part of Georgia state – never ever. Abkhazia - same story. in fact – people of these regions were in long term war with georgians. These two regions joined Russian imperia independently from Georgia. after bolshevist coup in 1917, after ussr was founded south osetia and abkhazia were assigned to Georgia administratively to simplify reporting and control after population. reason was that significant part of the year south regions were unreachable for north osetia communist administration. in a winter time mountains are closed. also, Georgian establishment had an old dream to grab these territories – even before socialists took control over the Russia. last and not least – stalin personally made this decision and he was georgian … so it looks like guys – you are defending decisions made by belsheviks regime and personally by stalin. how funny.. in the beginning of 90s Georgia declared withdrawal from ussr – that is OK osetians said. you go – we will stay… what is happening here – force incorporation of osetians into the Georgia… almost 20 years these guys are resisting to this force incorporation into Georgia saying that they are independent from Georgia and they have nothing to do with this state. u.s. is punishing them for this decision. as simple as that. it is really funny to see how historical facts were manipulated in west media.

you have to remember guys, south osetia never been part of Georgia state – never ever.
Abkhazia – same story.
in fact – people of these regions were in long term war with georgians. These two regions joined Russian imperia independently from Georgia.
after bolshevist coup in 1917, after ussr was founded south osetia and abkhazia were assigned to Georgia administratively to simplify reporting and control after population.
reason was that significant part of the year south regions were unreachable for north osetia communist administration. in a winter time mountains are closed.
also, Georgian establishment had an old dream to grab these territories – even before socialists took control over the Russia.
last and not least – stalin personally made this decision and he was georgian …

so it looks like guys – you are defending decisions made by belsheviks regime and personally by stalin.
how funny..

in the beginning of 90s Georgia declared withdrawal from ussr – that is OK osetians said.
you go – we will stay…

what is happening here – force incorporation of osetians into the Georgia…
almost 20 years these guys are resisting to this force incorporation into Georgia saying that they are independent from Georgia and they have nothing to do with this state.

u.s. is punishing them for this decision.
as simple as that.

]]> By: Gary Rosen http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8920 Gary Rosen Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:01:57 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8920 "Obviously I hit Fudd where it hurts." On second thought, I take that back, like Pat I doubt if he feels anything there. “Obviously I hit Fudd where it hurts.”

On second thought, I take that back, like Pat I doubt if he feels anything there.

]]> By: Gary Rosen http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8919 Gary Rosen Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:00:55 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8919 Like Raimondo bwahaha? Obviously I hit Fudd where it hurts. Like Raimondo bwahaha? Obviously I hit Fudd where it hurts.

]]> By: buddy larsen http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8912 buddy larsen Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:15:14 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8912 I just read a piece from Stratfor, detailing the sequences around Kosovo --i gotta admit --USA could hardly have handled that worse. And can't blame it all on Clinton, either, as the independence partition was Bush. I think west ignored Russia's feelings due to pent up piss off over all the misery USSR dealt out. Stratfor reminds, it was Yeltsin whom we dissed --and that's what brought in Putin & the ultranationalists. jeez --now he tells us -- Bloomberg just reported --a minute ago --North Korea announces it is suspending the dismantling of it's nukes --reason given, USA violations of the agreement. Man alive --what's going on here -- I just read a piece from Stratfor, detailing the sequences around Kosovo –i gotta admit –USA could hardly have handled that worse. And can’t blame it all on Clinton, either, as the independence partition was Bush. I think west ignored Russia’s feelings due to pent up piss off over all the misery USSR dealt out. Stratfor reminds, it was Yeltsin whom we dissed –and that’s what brought in Putin & the ultranationalists. jeez –now he tells us –

Bloomberg just reported –a minute ago –North Korea announces it is suspending the dismantling of it’s nukes –reason given, USA violations of the agreement. Man alive –what’s going on here –

]]> By: bobal http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8910 bobal Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:11:28 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8910 <i>wot</i> is an archaic spelling Buddy, but you did good on my test:) wot is an archaic spelling Buddy, but you did good on my test:)

]]> By: Fletcher Christian http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8908 Fletcher Christian Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:08:24 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/#comment-8908 Mr. Murphy, I agree with just about every word you said. I might add a few of my own. We don't spend more money on our military because we can't afford it. And why not? Because one of the major parties - Labour - spends most of each of its terms of office recruiting extra government workers (and adding extra levels of bureaucracy to "justify" them) in order to increase its support among the voters. (If you are a government employee in Britain at the moment and vote anything but Labour, you need a psychiatrist.) And then the population finally sees through this, and chucks them out - and the next lot have too much of a mess to clean up, and are too interested in keeping their own featherbedded jobs, to really do what's necessary in the time available. Along with that, both major parties continue to wreck our educational system, probably to ensure that there aren't enough people in Britain with the education to see through the bent statistics and illogical arguments, full of holes, that constitute "political debate" in today's Britain. Guy Fawkes had a point. Britain in 2008 is a country that could be great, strangled in red tape and carrying legions of utterly useless - in fact damaging - parasites instead of real legions. Just to illustrate the point a little more, at the moment the RN has twice as many admirals as ships. I wish I could do something about it - but there's only one of me. Mr. Murphy, I agree with just about every word you said. I might add a few of my own. We don’t spend more money on our military because we can’t afford it. And why not? Because one of the major parties – Labour – spends most of each of its terms of office recruiting extra government workers (and adding extra levels of bureaucracy to “justify” them) in order to increase its support among the voters. (If you are a government employee in Britain at the moment and vote anything but Labour, you need a psychiatrist.) And then the population finally sees through this, and chucks them out – and the next lot have too much of a mess to clean up, and are too interested in keeping their own featherbedded jobs, to really do what’s necessary in the time available.

Along with that, both major parties continue to wreck our educational system, probably to ensure that there aren’t enough people in Britain with the education to see through the bent statistics and illogical arguments, full of holes, that constitute “political debate” in today’s Britain. Guy Fawkes had a point.

Britain in 2008 is a country that could be great, strangled in red tape and carrying legions of utterly useless – in fact damaging – parasites instead of real legions. Just to illustrate the point a little more, at the moment the RN has twice as many admirals as ships. I wish I could do something about it – but there’s only one of me.

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