Comments on: 42 http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/ Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:38:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Recent Links Tagged With "categorical" - JabberTags http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-16788 Recent Links Tagged With "categorical" - JabberTags Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:04:17 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-16788 [...] public links >> categorical 42 Saved by kikilarue on Thu 09-10-2008 Logotherapy and Existential Analysis: Categorical [...] [...] public links >> categorical 42 Saved by kikilarue on Thu 09-10-2008 Logotherapy and Existential Analysis: Categorical [...]

]]> By: buddy larsen http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8271 buddy larsen Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:33:31 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8271 @chiral: i would keep some air between 'dogmatism' and 'the search for God'. As in apples and oranges --both fruit, but apples don't grow on orange trees, and so forth --organized religion being but an eddy in the stream of human consciousness. @ken anthony: "many scientists...have ended up believers" --i guess looking back on it my long-ago mind-opening moment was realizing that the structure of the 15 billion light-year Universe is repeated in a 'next-smaller' molecular 'universe' and then again on down into atomic and sub-atomic 'universes'. Meaning to me that there's little reason to accept any dogma about the 'big' universe being an end, and not a part of a 'next larger'. After all, observable creation is in motion between the two end points, 'the beginning' and 'the end'. If this universe is an end, why the 'becoming' nature of everything in it? @chiral: i would keep some air between ‘dogmatism’ and ‘the search for God’. As in apples and oranges –both fruit, but apples don’t grow on orange trees, and so forth –organized religion being but an eddy in the stream of human consciousness.

@ken anthony: “many scientists…have ended up believers” –i guess looking back on it my long-ago mind-opening moment was realizing that the structure of the 15 billion light-year Universe is repeated in a ‘next-smaller’ molecular ‘universe’ and then again on down into atomic and sub-atomic ‘universes’.

Meaning to me that there’s little reason to accept any dogma about the ‘big’ universe being an end, and not a part of a ‘next larger’.

After all, observable creation is in motion between the two end points, ‘the beginning’ and ‘the end’. If this universe is an end, why the ‘becoming’ nature of everything in it?

]]> By: buddy larsen http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8265 buddy larsen Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:03:25 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8265 heh --thanks (uh, maybe), Annoy Mouse. That post was a reply to a supercargo post just above that then disappeared, leaving my reply non-sequitered. A "no really, i heard something!" moment. heh –thanks (uh, maybe), Annoy Mouse. That post was a reply to a supercargo post just above that then disappeared, leaving my reply non-sequitered. A “no really, i heard something!” moment.

]]> By: Annoy Mouse http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8225 Annoy Mouse Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:08:41 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8225 Buddy- I don't think you're paranoid...Just Texan Buddy- I don’t think you’re paranoid…Just Texan

]]> By: Annoy Mouse http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8224 Annoy Mouse Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:55:05 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8224 Supercargo – You speak the language well and you have interesting ideas about faith but perhaps you miss the point that faith is founded on religion but first it found in the individual that possesses the capability to ask questions beyond what do I eat who can I “F” and where o I sleep. Denial of god shouldn’t be made on behalf of serving ones own ego, as if to self designate as one’s own god. Supercargo – You speak the language well and you have interesting ideas about faith but perhaps you miss the point that faith is founded on religion but first it found in the individual that possesses the capability to ask questions beyond what do I eat who can I “F” and where o I sleep. Denial of god shouldn’t be made on behalf of serving ones own ego, as if to self designate as one’s own god.

]]> By: ken anthony http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8223 ken anthony Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:43:04 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8223 In case my obvious point was missed... Science would look to disprove the God hypothesis. As science fails in more and more attempts to disprove it, the hypothesis would become relatively stronger but never reach certainty (because nothing in science can ever reach certainty.) For non-scientists, certainty is not such a problem. You may substitute any other hypothesis for the God hypothesis and all the above remains true. Albert Einstein was noted for saying that even if the eclipse experiments had falsified relativity, the experiment would be wrong and relativity true. Al was an INTJ like me. Many scientist that have been willing to actually apply the scientific method to the question have ended up believers in a creator. In case my obvious point was missed…

Science would look to disprove the God hypothesis. As science fails in more and more attempts to disprove it, the hypothesis would become relatively stronger but never reach certainty (because nothing in science can ever reach certainty.)

For non-scientists, certainty is not such a problem.

You may substitute any other hypothesis for the God hypothesis and all the above remains true. Albert Einstein was noted for saying that even if the eclipse experiments had falsified relativity, the experiment would be wrong and relativity true. Al was an INTJ like me.

Many scientist that have been willing to actually apply the scientific method to the question have ended up believers in a creator.

]]> By: ken anthony http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8222 ken anthony Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:13:19 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8222 Eggplant: <i>Ken anthony said: “A true scientist could never demand Proof of God. Science provides evidence to support theories that are falsifiable.” A true scientist would be an agnostic seeking or awaiting evidence to support or refute God’s existence.</i> Agnostic or not is irrelevant to my point. Nothing is proven in science, only disproven and science marches on. <i>Ken anthony also said: “How do you know I exist? You don’t.” Baloney. That’s the only thing you truly know, i.e. “Cogito ergo sum”. You just flunked Philosophy 101.</i> I top your baloney with mustard. Cogito ergo sum means <b>I</b> know I exist, it says nothing about you knowing. ...and some useful info... http://www.quantum.univie.ac.at/links/newscientist/bit.html ...which may put an end to the former silly interpretations. Eggplant:

Ken anthony said:

“A true scientist could never demand Proof of God. Science provides evidence to support theories that are falsifiable.”

A true scientist would be an agnostic seeking or awaiting evidence to support or refute God’s existence.

Agnostic or not is irrelevant to my point. Nothing is proven in science, only disproven and science marches on.

Ken anthony also said:

“How do you know I exist? You don’t.”

Baloney. That’s the only thing you truly know, i.e. “Cogito ergo sum”. You just flunked Philosophy 101.

I top your baloney with mustard.

Cogito ergo sum means I know I exist, it says nothing about you knowing.

…and some useful info…

http://www.quantum.univie.ac.at/links/newscientist/bit.html

…which may put an end to the former silly interpretations.

]]> By: chiral http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8203 chiral Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:33:47 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8203 Western and Mideast religions sell straight-forward narratives, where none of our philosophical griping matters: only the story-line and a few worldly lessons apply. Believe in a small set of miracles, and the high priests are only annoyed that we would even raise questions. The "real issue" is whether to forgive your cheating spouse or whatever. It bores a thoughtful person to tears. Dogmatism and spirituality are very at war. Both are easily hijacked for political gain, in case you haven't noticed.... Western and Mideast religions sell straight-forward narratives, where none of our philosophical griping matters: only the story-line and a few worldly lessons apply. Believe in a small set of miracles, and the high priests are only annoyed that we would even raise questions. The “real issue” is whether to forgive your cheating spouse or whatever. It bores a thoughtful person to tears.

Dogmatism and spirituality are very at war. Both are easily hijacked for political gain, in case you haven’t noticed….

]]> By: buddy larsen http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8194 buddy larsen Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:52:49 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8194 Ok, cargo, i'm convinced. now what? Ok, cargo, i’m convinced. now what?

]]> By: supercargo http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8191 supercargo Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:46:46 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/21/42/#comment-8191 My post of question became irrelevant when the offending material was removed. I am not complaining. Brain impacted dogma - faith - is the last salient in the fight for true freedom. Belief in distant hearsay fictions of contacts with alleged deities, manifests both susceptibility to indoctrination and gullibility of character. See Bush on faith. So where does he source his propensity to lie at will? He equates religion and freedom, oblivious to the indoctrination question. Muslims are bound by the Bukhari Hadith, which includes a dozen designation of Muslim as: "slaves of allah." As they say, if there was a devil, he could quote scripture to defend anything. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/149/story_14930_1.html Does anyone here believe the crap about Jew-Christians-Muslims being a community of belief? Only designated Muslim imams are allowed to touch either a Bible or Jewish Talmud, because these are anathemized with Satanic influence. That is one reason why the Koran includes prohibitions against making friends with Jews and Christians. Muslims are ideologically programed to despise disbelievers. And, after the first crusade, our forefathers hacked off the heads of every Muslim in Antioch and Jerusalem. We are inherently antagonistic and we need to deal with that. We should all agree that religion is a sterile vessel of humanity. So much religious material. So much waste of trees. My post of question became irrelevant when the offending material was removed. I am not complaining.

Brain impacted dogma – faith – is the last salient in the fight for true freedom. Belief in distant hearsay fictions of contacts with alleged deities, manifests both susceptibility to indoctrination and gullibility of character.

See Bush on faith. So where does he source his propensity to lie at will? He equates religion and freedom, oblivious to the indoctrination question. Muslims are bound by the Bukhari Hadith, which includes a dozen designation of Muslim as: “slaves of allah.” As they say, if there was a devil, he could quote scripture to defend anything.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/149/story_14930_1.html

Does anyone here believe the crap about Jew-Christians-Muslims being a community of belief? Only designated Muslim imams are allowed to touch either a Bible or Jewish Talmud, because these are anathemized with Satanic influence. That is one reason why the Koran includes prohibitions against making friends with Jews and Christians. Muslims are ideologically programed to despise disbelievers. And, after the first crusade, our forefathers hacked off the heads of every Muslim in Antioch and Jerusalem. We are inherently antagonistic and we need to deal with that. We should all agree that religion is a sterile vessel of humanity.

So much religious material. So much waste of trees.

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