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	<title>Comments on: The tower of the winds</title>
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	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: michaelyi</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelyi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I suspect that many of the commenters here are implicitly assuming that J. Richard Gott’s Doomsday Argument makes a prediction that delivers some element of certainty about when a phenomenon will end.  However, I think the Doomsday Argument only guides one toward the best way to bet given very sparse knowledge about the phenomenon.  And ones current best bet may well be very inaccurate indeed as Wretchard indicated when he warned , &quot;It (the Doomsday Argument) falls down if we know that we are on some special part of the distribution.&quot; (Jun 23, 2008 - 3:21 pm)

Granting for the sake of discussion that US colleges and universities are IQ sorting machines with a priveleged near-monopoly position for providing that service, and the content of the educ-----, ahem, seat time matters little to employers, then why don&#039;t we see employers hiring young people with no more than an acceptance letter in hand?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that many of the commenters here are implicitly assuming that J. Richard Gott’s Doomsday Argument makes a prediction that delivers some element of certainty about when a phenomenon will end.  However, I think the Doomsday Argument only guides one toward the best way to bet given very sparse knowledge about the phenomenon.  And ones current best bet may well be very inaccurate indeed as Wretchard indicated when he warned , &#8220;It (the Doomsday Argument) falls down if we know that we are on some special part of the distribution.&#8221; (Jun 23, 2008 &#8211; 3:21 pm)</p>
<p>Granting for the sake of discussion that US colleges and universities are IQ sorting machines with a priveleged near-monopoly position for providing that service, and the content of the educ&#8212;&#8211;, ahem, seat time matters little to employers, then why don&#8217;t we see employers hiring young people with no more than an acceptance letter in hand?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-226</guid>
		<description>Atheism is a form of religion too.
//////////////
The great atheistic philosophers of the 19th century Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Marx &amp; Freud didn&#039;t actually prove that God doesn&#039;t exist. They simply assumed that he doesn&#039;t exist and went from there.

In fact, you can&#039;t prove scientifically that God does or does not exist. Both positions are matters of faith.

See the word &quot;scientifically&quot; in the last paragraph. As it happens science is a branch of philosophy. Which is by definition man centered --as in Man is the measure of all things

God is by definition God centered. If Man could measure God then God would not be God.

When God is the measure of all things then you are talking theology. When man is the measure of all things then you are talking philosophy.

A great confusion came into the english speaking world by way of bacon &amp; decartes in the early 1600&#039;s when they created a tree of knowledge and put theology as a subbranch of philosophy.

That has caused considerable confusion ever since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atheism is a form of religion too.<br />
//////////////<br />
The great atheistic philosophers of the 19th century Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Marx &amp; Freud didn&#8217;t actually prove that God doesn&#8217;t exist. They simply assumed that he doesn&#8217;t exist and went from there.</p>
<p>In fact, you can&#8217;t prove scientifically that God does or does not exist. Both positions are matters of faith.</p>
<p>See the word &#8220;scientifically&#8221; in the last paragraph. As it happens science is a branch of philosophy. Which is by definition man centered &#8211;as in Man is the measure of all things</p>
<p>God is by definition God centered. If Man could measure God then God would not be God.</p>
<p>When God is the measure of all things then you are talking theology. When man is the measure of all things then you are talking philosophy.</p>
<p>A great confusion came into the english speaking world by way of bacon &amp; decartes in the early 1600&#8242;s when they created a tree of knowledge and put theology as a subbranch of philosophy.</p>
<p>That has caused considerable confusion ever since.</p>
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		<title>By: truepeers</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>truepeers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-208</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The human being can only be studied in the same way as the objects of hard science if the human being is only a material object, say like a lab mouse, or a tree, or a mineral. For the Atheist and Marxist this is not a problem, but for the religious it is - since man is understood to have a supernatural component.&lt;/i&gt;

-Actually, for any thinking atheist it should be a problem too. The fact that humanity is characterized by our shared uses of transcendent signs that have no material existence - words exist, in the material domain, only as letters or as sounds that the brain can associate in apprehending the transcendent sign - should throw into doubt any strictly materialist philosophy. One can bracket the question of whether God exists; but a serious student of the human sciences cannot argue away, as something unnecessary, the fact that humans are religious beings. Atheism is a form of religion too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The human being can only be studied in the same way as the objects of hard science if the human being is only a material object, say like a lab mouse, or a tree, or a mineral. For the Atheist and Marxist this is not a problem, but for the religious it is &#8211; since man is understood to have a supernatural component.</i></p>
<p>-Actually, for any thinking atheist it should be a problem too. The fact that humanity is characterized by our shared uses of transcendent signs that have no material existence &#8211; words exist, in the material domain, only as letters or as sounds that the brain can associate in apprehending the transcendent sign &#8211; should throw into doubt any strictly materialist philosophy. One can bracket the question of whether God exists; but a serious student of the human sciences cannot argue away, as something unnecessary, the fact that humans are religious beings. Atheism is a form of religion too.</p>
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		<title>By: 49erDweet</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDweet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-193</guid>
		<description>Changing gears slightly, but isn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;the military&lt;/i&gt; another institution we allow to classify our youth by IQ [and output]?  And don&#039;t they do a far better and much more equal job?

Best wishes, W, in the years ahead</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Changing gears slightly, but isn&#8217;t <i>the military</i> another institution we allow to classify our youth by IQ [and output]?  And don&#8217;t they do a far better and much more equal job?</p>
<p>Best wishes, W, in the years ahead</p>
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		<title>By: Storm-Rider</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Storm-Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here&#039;s the link to work by Igor Shafarevich.

http://www.robertlstephens.com/essays/shafarevich/001SocialistPhenomenon.html#pagestart_194</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the link to work by Igor Shafarevich.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.robertlstephens.com/essays/shafarevich/001SocialistPhenomenon.html#pagestart_194" rel="nofollow">http://www.robertlstephens.com/essays/shafarevich/001SocialistPhenomenon.html#pagestart_194</a></p>
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		<title>By: Storm-Rider</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Storm-Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-187</guid>
		<description>&quot;The hard sciences intrinsically demand precise measurement...2+2=4 regardless of one’s ethnicity, gender, or claims of victimization...On the other hand, the liberal arts by their very nebulousness are easily exploited by academic charlatans and quacks.&quot; 

Hard science is the process of determining the behavior of the material universe through observation, controlled testing, and the application of human reason. The hard sciences, such as mathematics, chemistry, physics, engineering, astronomy and biology, have as their subjects the organic and inorganic elements of nature - including the observable and testable functions of life it’s self. It is difficult to fudge hard science because the untruth of fudged hard science can be demonstrated by repetition of the original observation and testing, and proven false.

The soft sciences of psychology, sociology, political &quot;science&quot;, women&#039;s studies, cross-cultural studies, etc., etc., etc. differ from the hard sciences in that the subject is the human being. The human being can only be studied in the same way as the objects of hard science if the human being is only a material object, say like a lab mouse, or a tree, or a mineral. For the Atheist and Marxist this is not a problem, but for the religious it is - since man is understood to have a supernatural component. For the religious it is understood that man is made in the image of God, and that man therefore has an eternal soul. Since the soul of man can’t be directly observed or tested as in the hard sciences, there can be no hard science in the study of the complete man - man the animal, but whose soul is made in the image of God. Soft science will always be soft and incomplete if man has a soul; and the teachers and practitioners of soft science will come to incomplete or erroneous conclusions when man is viewed as simply a thing or object for observation.

Igor Shafarevich, a brilliant Russian mathematician, came to this conclusion in his book The Socialist Phenomenon. Here is an excerpt regarding the soft “scientific” Socialist/Marxist understanding of man:

&quot;Individuals correspond to the elemental particles of matter, which must be identical... As for Marxism, one thinks of an analogy with another physical theory. This is the kinetic theory of gases, according to which a gas is the aggregate of molecules that come into collision, with the result of each collision determined by the laws of mechanics. A very great number of molecules 
transform the statistical laws of their collision into the general laws of the physics of gases. The only form of social contact of the producers of goods in capitalist society is exchange (just as for gas molecules the only form of interaction is collision). The interaction of a great number of producers engenders that &quot;social production&quot; which, in its turn, determines their political, legal and religious notions, and the &quot;social, political and spiritual processes of life in general.&quot; 

This is the end result of soft science:  Marxist Socialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The hard sciences intrinsically demand precise measurement&#8230;2+2=4 regardless of one’s ethnicity, gender, or claims of victimization&#8230;On the other hand, the liberal arts by their very nebulousness are easily exploited by academic charlatans and quacks.&#8221; </p>
<p>Hard science is the process of determining the behavior of the material universe through observation, controlled testing, and the application of human reason. The hard sciences, such as mathematics, chemistry, physics, engineering, astronomy and biology, have as their subjects the organic and inorganic elements of nature &#8211; including the observable and testable functions of life it’s self. It is difficult to fudge hard science because the untruth of fudged hard science can be demonstrated by repetition of the original observation and testing, and proven false.</p>
<p>The soft sciences of psychology, sociology, political &#8220;science&#8221;, women&#8217;s studies, cross-cultural studies, etc., etc., etc. differ from the hard sciences in that the subject is the human being. The human being can only be studied in the same way as the objects of hard science if the human being is only a material object, say like a lab mouse, or a tree, or a mineral. For the Atheist and Marxist this is not a problem, but for the religious it is &#8211; since man is understood to have a supernatural component. For the religious it is understood that man is made in the image of God, and that man therefore has an eternal soul. Since the soul of man can’t be directly observed or tested as in the hard sciences, there can be no hard science in the study of the complete man &#8211; man the animal, but whose soul is made in the image of God. Soft science will always be soft and incomplete if man has a soul; and the teachers and practitioners of soft science will come to incomplete or erroneous conclusions when man is viewed as simply a thing or object for observation.</p>
<p>Igor Shafarevich, a brilliant Russian mathematician, came to this conclusion in his book The Socialist Phenomenon. Here is an excerpt regarding the soft “scientific” Socialist/Marxist understanding of man:</p>
<p>&#8220;Individuals correspond to the elemental particles of matter, which must be identical&#8230; As for Marxism, one thinks of an analogy with another physical theory. This is the kinetic theory of gases, according to which a gas is the aggregate of molecules that come into collision, with the result of each collision determined by the laws of mechanics. A very great number of molecules<br />
transform the statistical laws of their collision into the general laws of the physics of gases. The only form of social contact of the producers of goods in capitalist society is exchange (just as for gas molecules the only form of interaction is collision). The interaction of a great number of producers engenders that &#8220;social production&#8221; which, in its turn, determines their political, legal and religious notions, and the &#8220;social, political and spiritual processes of life in general.&#8221; </p>
<p>This is the end result of soft science:  Marxist Socialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh and one more thing. On of Luther&#039;s points was that catholic church of the age needed stop the practice of the sale of indulgences.

In the current age the practice has been reconstituted. It is one of the chief Obama&#039;s chief selling points.

Vote for me and get your ancestors out of hock.

Luther contended that the sale of indulgences promoted witchcraft. I tend to agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and one more thing. On of Luther&#8217;s points was that catholic church of the age needed stop the practice of the sale of indulgences.</p>
<p>In the current age the practice has been reconstituted. It is one of the chief Obama&#8217;s chief selling points.</p>
<p>Vote for me and get your ancestors out of hock.</p>
<p>Luther contended that the sale of indulgences promoted witchcraft. I tend to agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Left, right or center, agnostic, atheist or capital “B” believer, The Doomsday Argument can also be used to ‘predict’ the end of your own belief systems, ideologies, cultures, societies, economies…
////////////////
oh yeah and the world is slowly coming to an end. in the sense that end of europe as the primary agent of history was foretold by columbus&#039;s voyage.

then as now Christians have a better eschatology  to deal with it than everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left, right or center, agnostic, atheist or capital “B” believer, The Doomsday Argument can also be used to ‘predict’ the end of your own belief systems, ideologies, cultures, societies, economies…<br />
////////////////<br />
oh yeah and the world is slowly coming to an end. in the sense that end of europe as the primary agent of history was foretold by columbus&#8217;s voyage.</p>
<p>then as now Christians have a better eschatology  to deal with it than everyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Bonesteel</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Bonesteel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-147</guid>
		<description>Left, right or center, agnostic, atheist or capital &quot;B&quot; believer, The Doomsday Argument can also be used to &#039;predict&#039; the end of your own belief systems, ideologies, cultures, societies, economies...

 Which is why some folks go so far out of their ways to discredit it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left, right or center, agnostic, atheist or capital &#8220;B&#8221; believer, The Doomsday Argument can also be used to &#8216;predict&#8217; the end of your own belief systems, ideologies, cultures, societies, economies&#8230;</p>
<p> Which is why some folks go so far out of their ways to discredit it.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/06/23/the-tower-of-the-winds/#comment-145</guid>
		<description>7.) the high point of islam in the 1500’s was the siege of vienna in 1532. that’s still another 25 years away. but islam is an old empire religion. and we are moving from old empire to new empire. (I’m defining here empire in the way churchill defined it–as “empires of the future will be empires of the mind”..)Then as now, Islam was a consumer of science and technology and not a producer.
//////////////
there is a caveat here. the cost of generating solar power is now collapsing faster than computing power. the best companies now like nano solar are producing solar power at par with coal in a couple years their costs will be half to a quarter that of coal. this makes deserts everywhere one huge power center. that bodes well for north africa and the middle east.

the other thing happening now but less publicized is that the slow fall of water desalination and transport is accelerating. I blog on the latest here
http://nick2.wordpress.com/
this also bodes well for desert countries. 
basically starting in 10-15 years I think the press of populations will reverse course because of technological change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>7.) the high point of islam in the 1500’s was the siege of vienna in 1532. that’s still another 25 years away. but islam is an old empire religion. and we are moving from old empire to new empire. (I’m defining here empire in the way churchill defined it–as “empires of the future will be empires of the mind”..)Then as now, Islam was a consumer of science and technology and not a producer.<br />
//////////////<br />
there is a caveat here. the cost of generating solar power is now collapsing faster than computing power. the best companies now like nano solar are producing solar power at par with coal in a couple years their costs will be half to a quarter that of coal. this makes deserts everywhere one huge power center. that bodes well for north africa and the middle east.</p>
<p>the other thing happening now but less publicized is that the slow fall of water desalination and transport is accelerating. I blog on the latest here<br />
<a href="http://nick2.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://nick2.wordpress.com/</a><br />
this also bodes well for desert countries.<br />
basically starting in 10-15 years I think the press of populations will reverse course because of technological change.</p>
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