My reader “Ann” wrote to me about a trip she took to Egypt a year ago. She went to see the pyramids — I doubt I’ll ever see them, not in this lifetime, not at this moment of history. I am impressed with “Ann’s” courage and adventurousness. She noted that:
“Most of the Egyptian women were veiled. They don’t consider it a sign of submission but a political statement. A form of Egyptian solidarity and perhaps also a fashion statement. Little girls reportedly can’t wait to be old enough to be allowed to wear a veil. I have pictures of college girls waiting to get into the library in Alexandria; elementary school girls in school — mostly veiled.”
The photos show walking ghosts. Those whose faces are not completely covered or hidden are also smiling. “Ann” continues. She writes:
“I was also surprised by the Egyptian culture. It’s un-Egyptian to ask a favor of someone without giving them a tip. No one just helps a neighbor. Egyptians feel superior to non-Egyptians, so they’re entitled to have more than Westerners. Like the Iranians, everything is someone else’s fault, never theirs — the Americans, the Israelis, the Zionists, the English. They take no personal responsibility for solving their own problems. Also, I was surprised to learn that the primary sources of income to Egypt require little effort on the part of Egyptians — income from the Suez canal, tourism to the pyramids, foreign aid from the USA, oil revenue — I think those are the top four.
Also, they love Obama and hate Mubarak – at least they did last March.”
The great Egyptian feminist, Huda Sha’arawi, would weep if she could see these photos of 21st century veiled Egyptian women. The Egyptian girls (really they are children) seem so eager to please, so excited to dress “up” like their mothers, like adult women. These photos would break Sha’arawi’s heart. They break my heart too.
Allow me to note: Feminism in Turkey and Egypt was not “westernization.” It was not another form of western colonialism. It was merely modernization. As in Iran, it was also an indigenous movement.
Today, the Islamic forces of darkness are burying women alive, both literally, in the earth, (The Turkish atrocity) and above ground, in burqas and face-masks. This must stop. There is absolutely no Islamic religious requirement that women be face-veiled or shrouded. None. Nada. Zilch. It is taqqiyya, disinformation, misinformation, and it is politics-as-usual aka jihad.
If this does not stop, the West and all non-Islamic countries might have to build a wall clear up to the sky to keep such practices out.
Here in the States a number of deaths of Muslim women are suspected to be so called ‘honor killings’(is there something more appropriate we can call it?). Sadly it still is not a call to action because while many will agree it is a terrible tragedy, it happens to ‘them’ not ‘us’ but I fear the time is coming when it will be ‘us’ ie non-muslims. Will we wake up then? I am not sure which is a very sad thing to say. We need to keep these stories alive and circulating. If we don’t act now it will be too late. It might even be too late to build that wall.
This atrocity should be condemned by all the heads of state in the world. The Turkish government, which has been relatively sane, should make a point of trying the perpetrators and passing laws to prevent such things from happening again.
However, I’m not holding my breath.
Ignorant, backward pride in being screwed-up, otherwise they’d have to admit they’re helpless.
Sense and humanity go out the window just because ignorant twits can wrap Allah around some emotional pathology to gratify it.
The present Turkish regime lectures us in Israel about the the local Arabs – and this atrocity occurs on their soil. Let them clean up their own mess first.
While I agree on the point of Armenia, Turkey is a sane state especially when compared to say Israel or Saudi Arabia. It is staunchly secular, just compare it to many other states and countries which are already in the EU (here in Ireland for example the police coluded with the Catholic church in covering up child sex abuse) which are far from secular. Israel should take a look at Turkey, which was until the cruel offensive in Gaza and aftermath was Israel’s only ally in the Middle East, and go secular.
Pretty much all of these disgusting ‘honour killings’ are carried out by Kurds from the Turkey-Iraq border area not by ordinary modern Muslim and secular Turks.
BTW the reason why Chancellor Merkel doesn’t want Turkey in Europe is beause of the economic cost not anything else.
I would talk about the Erosion of Non-islam’s Rights, which means, the Increasing of Everything is Islamic,
at the Expenses of other Middle Eastern people,
and of Others (Westerners, …).
For them: Islam comes first (and Islam states its Superiority to Others) then Islamic Men come first (therefore ISLAMIC Women got a Status of Inferiority. Still Islamic Women are considered superior to Non-islamic ones).
Even Pyramids and the Nile belong to Islam, and Islamo-Egyptians are proud of their Idology (Islam) and of their Country (as if it belonged to the Islamic Ummah and not to the Coptic Heritage, or had no precious Non-islamic History).
Islam is a black Hole.
“…everything is someone else’s fault, never theirs…” That sounds familiar. Frankly it is the cry of the indulgent and dangerous.
The premise of truth being eternal, and not dependant upon anyone accepting it, is something they will fight tooth and nail until their last breath. Which is the ultimate epitaph of their waste.
Phyllis, you can’t imagine how this story sickened me. To think that a young woman is buried alive for just talking to a boy is barbaric. Thank you for continuing to cover these stories and exposing the atrocities that are happening in the name of God.
Turkey “relatively sane”? Believe that at your own peril.
What Turkey does is expend millions of dollars yearly even today, to mask, clean, confuse, in the ultimate negationist effort, their role in the awful Armenian genocide.
In Bulgaria, people know Turkey well. European-looking women alone travel there at their own peril. They will be pinched on their buttocks, disrespected, and then worse.
Kanzlerin Merkel is very right in trying to prevent this tribe from entering the EU.
9. MiamaMan
The key word is “relatively”. In this case the father and grandfather have at least been arrested (which could all be just for show of course). Compare that to other countries where they don’t even make a show of arresting them.
totally disheartening, disgusting and uncivilized. How can you hurt people like this?
I do not think I would have lasted a day in Turkey etc….although I look again and think, perhaps I would do anything necessary to survive.
Islam/Muslims must be stopped somehow. They are a mislead totally inhumane people. There is no excuse, absolutely no excuse.
The US will never speak up…it would be “politically incorrect”, esp with a muslim at the head of our nation.
I wish I could right all the wrongs and calm all the fears, however, as one person I do not have this power.
God will level the playfield.
Why do we send aid to Egypt? Send our aid to the people of the Appalachians, Mississippi etc!!!!.
This atrocity happened last fall and although I follow the Turkish press daily I only found out about it through a female columnist in Today’s Zaman in early December who lamented on the “murder of civilization”, since the name of the young girl, Medine,comes from the same root word as “civilization.” At that time it was reported that the girl had been suffocated.
I posted my comments but Zaman chose not to publish them but did publish comments from someone with the title,”Dr.” who said that this girl’s brutal murder was not Islamic — Islam only prescribed that girls guilty of “lewd” behaviour be confined in their houses until death. That was the only comment Zaman published until I complained that such a comment disrespected Medine’s memory — more so since it was the only comment apparently allowed. Then Zaman relented and published my comments. Here is the column:
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/columnists-194702-the-murder-of-civilization.html
As you say, Phyllis, there is lots being written about this atrocity but nothing being done. I won’t waste my time in writing to Zaman anymore — those responsible for this murder, and those like them, will not be reading the English version of Zaman.
Last summer while I was in Canada, I heard on the radio about a car being pulled out of the Rideau canal. Three teenaged girls and an adult woman were dead in the car. That’s how it was reported. It took weeks for the details to drip out: they were Muslim, the girls were killed by their father and brother, the adult was wife number 1, (not EX-WIFE, but wife #1.)
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2009/07/23/four-women-gone-forever-kingston-canal-car-deaths-timeline.aspx
Now if this kind of barbarism isn’t condemned in a civilized country like Canada, how do you expect it to be criticized in a country like Turkey where it is business as usual?
Great book: “Princess” as told to Jean Sasson by a Saudi royal. If “America Alone” and “Londonistan” didn’t open your eyes, Jean Sasson will do it. Also, the best columns around concerning the invasion of the U.S. by Islam are by Frosty Wooldridge.
But, all over Europe, they are fighting about the Islamic Veil. Should burqas (full body shrouds) and niqab (face masks) be banned? Should hijab remain banned in school in France? The Council of Imams in Ireland has just had a press conference. It said that “a ban on the niqab — a veil worn by Muslim women that covers everything except the eyes — violates personal freedoms guaranteed by democratic systems. It added that such bans also constitute an obstacle to multiculturalism, integration and human rights.”
……………………………………………………….
Women being veiled is itself a violation of personal freedoms and human rights and an obstacle to integration. The fact that these brainwashed, enslaved islamic women are all too happy to wear them doesn’t change that fact. Sharia has no place whatsoever in free societies.
Furthermore political leaders in the west need to stop walking on eggshells when it comes to islam and state bluntly that islam and its practices are an abomination, are anti-freedom, anti-human rights, misogynistic and have no place in the free world.
Ah, the wonders of “moderate” Islam.
“Sharia has no place whatsoever in free societies.”
And….we in the west are prepared for the inevitable war that must come…to preserve our liberties, society and constitution? It’ll be a tad longer than a six day war…muslims are pathetic cowards. They need to torture and abuse the weakest among them…to keep the cultist fraud alive.
The world is shamefully silent over the Egyptian government and Saudi Arabia involvement in the kidnapping of Christian Egyptian girls in Egypt. Kidnapped Christian female children are violently converted to Islam and forcibly married/raped to Muslim males.
Does the uncaring, mainstream media not report this because telling the truth about Islam would make Islam look bad? Protecting Islam is considered more important by Western mainstream media and government leaders than protecting the lives of desperate, defenseless innocent children!
ASSYRIAN INTERNATIONAL NEWS AGENCY
8-11-2009
Abduction and Forced Islamization of Christian Coptic Girls Continues in Egypt
(AINA) — The systematic abduction and forced Islamization of Coptic minor girls in Egypt is a frequent, dangerous and a rapidly escalating phenomenon. Coptic Pope Shenouda III, December 17th, 197: “there is pressure being practiced to convert Coptic girls to embrace Islam and marry them under terror to Muslim husbands” and demanded that the abducted girls be brought back to their families.
Abductions are done in cooperation between Saudi-funded associations and the Egyptian State Security.
…in the majority of cases, the State Security is the one who masterminds the kidnapping plans.”
http://www.aina.org/news/20090811125748.htm
The U.S. gifts Egypt with 2.2 billion dollars every year.
‘He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.’ Bible, Exodus 21:16
Saudi authorities shred all Bibles found on anyone at the airport in Saudi Arabia. Bibles that contain the unchangeable laws of G-D.
The part where this killing has occured is the eastern part of turkey which means where the Kurdish population lives mostly. The Honnor killing comes from culture which is a high contex culture and kurdish minority in turkey has this culture. It has nothing to do with the religion, or Islam or any other religion. In high contex culture girls are not treated equal. The old Japanese, Jewish ((( imust say Jewish here because Israel did not exist back then)))and corean cultures are examples of this culture however these cultures have evolved and it takes time for some others. It has nothing to do with the religion. I must add one more thing here… Italian gangsters burried many more lives in the American desert while the bodyss were still alive not to mention burrials into the cement blocks. And I am sure Israelis ar killing those innocent civilian palestineans… Somehow no one talks about it. And I wonder why…..
19. It is disgusting how are you trying to protect Islam from its inhuman and mysogynist Rules.
Hopefully Reformers of Islam and Critics of Islam will expose Islam enough to make it change.
Tell us what do you think about Redda Law, which is part of Sharia, also known as the Islamic Way?
Are you confusing normal civil Contextes (where different Communities live together, like in Egypt and Nigeria) and War’s Contextes, where Military Forces are involved (for Defensive Purposes).
In the former, Islamic/-ist people are unjustly and unfairly and brutally persecuting Innocent people – just because they refuse to convert to Islam and therefore to get invaded by Islamic/-ist people; in the latter, it is not Innocent civilians which is are meant to be defeated
(I would like to remeber you that the World already experienced II. World Wars, where first Military Forces were involved, and then Civilians got wounded
- not to mention Holocaust, which got practiced by a Party whose Politic is very Islamic/-ist alike -).
Murat cut the bull. I’m tired of hearing “honor” murders have nothing to do with the islamic religion even as this occurs throughout the muslim world. Stop saying it is about culture. How is it that “Honor” murders are happening in disparate cultures, ethnicities and nationalities from Africa to the Middle East to the Indian sub-continent? The thing they do have in common is the fact that they are all ISLAMIC. This has EVERYTHING to do with islam.
These people are not Turkish they are Kurds, honor killings are part of their “culture”. This happened in the region they call as Kurdistan Kurds have their own language and ethnicity, they are not even remotely related to Turks. Some blame Turkey for not education these people, but even animals do not need any kind of education to not to torture and kill their children. These people do not send their children to schools, whenever turkey forces them to EU countries start blaming Turkey for assimilation, they do not know anything about reality. At least only few of these monsters left in rural mountain villages, thanks to Turkey’s policies even they where sometimes harsh.
Hello to Laura and hellenoChristian
i understand your Point of View. I have a Mother and sisters and I would not allowe anything in the world to hurt them. So you must understand that I share the same view as you guys do.
Please my friends, read some books about high and low contex cultures before you write such comments, which might offend some people. As responsible people which ithink you are because you gave that impression with what you wrote.
Note. Europeans had the same culture in different forms. It has started evolving not so long ago
PLEASE READ HIGH CONTEX LOW CONTEX CULTURES…
Bank robbers just gave our government one more good reason to forbid the burqa !
http://tinyurl.com/yfcsnl5
and here a clash with our former socialist Justice Minister Elisabeth Guigou and Kenza, a french National who revendiques to wear the Burqa as the prophet’s wives did
Elisabeth Guigou says that the persons who wear the burqa are belonging to a sect, and as the sects are already forbidden by a law in France, therefore Kenza should be arrested according to this law right now, no need for a new law !
Kenza repeats as a parrot the fondamentalists’ arguments, and in a self made video, she said that, if she cant’ go into administrations with her face hidden, she would wear a surgeon mask, which isn’t forbidden by any law, so the evidence is that she makes provocation, and that this isn’t a very religious posture
there are 3 videos of the talk show (must watch)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc3wl5_burqa-objet-du-scandale-23-interdic_news
Gerard Miller, a former trotkyst militant, still radical lefty, defends the persons who want to wear the burka
and the video with the surgeon mask
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc24ex_sarkozy-va-sarracher-les-cheveux_news
There’s a lot of judgment in this post. While I am shocked that this kind of savagery still occurs in Turkey and I highly condemn it, I think that we need to recognize that the burqua issue is highly complex. Let’s take the headscarf issue that erupted in Turkey about 1.5 years ago (the government tried to withdraw the ban on wearing a headscarf in public universities but the law to keep the ban was upheld). On the one hand, as an American, I think it’s a violation of personal freedoms and expression of faith and think it’s crazy that it’s banned. So many young women choose to not go to school so that they don’t have to give up wearing their veil. As a woman whose parents are from Turkey though and who has seen firsthand the disparity in treatment of women in Muslim cultures, I know that many women are forced by their parents to act a certain way, dress a certain way and so am delighted that those girls are allowed the ability to at least unveil themselves during school hours. And I see it as a slippery slope… does the country then become too Islamicized?
It’s very easy as an outsider to cast stones but it’s complex. You’re right, the Koran doesn’t say that women need to be veiled but for a Westerner to use that argument to try and change the current system (and the growth in women covering EVERYTHING up) – it won’t work. Like with all movements, it has to come from those inside who are fed up.
On a side note – I went to Egypt 2 years ago (by myself) and had ZERO problems. Yes, I noted that about 99% of the women were veiled but I didn’t really pass judgment on it. And yes, as a tourist I was heckled a lot but I knew to expect that. Nevertheless, everyone was lovely to me and I’ve been far more harassed here in NYC than I ever was there.
Wow Laura, you think you’re really high and mighty, huh? The VAST majority of Muslim women wear their headscarf out of their own faith. They see it as a duty to God. They wear it with pride. To blanket the whole thing as just women being full victims of a disgusting religion that has no place in the free world – you’re really way off base. I recommend actually going into a Muslim society and observing many different households before continuing to spew such hatred and judgment. I am a very independent Turkish woman who grew up in a traditional society and I always fought against what I perceived as injustice against me or women. But many times I noticed that the women themselves were more than OK with what was going on (ie. their husband asking them to wear the headscarf). It was me and my judgment. They were cool as a cucumber. So lighten up. If they’re not hurting themselves or you, lay off.
This, unfortunately, is our future. Where in the name of heaven is the person who protests? It’s so darn easy to protest the “Jewish” influence, to curse the big Satan and the little Satan. But where in the dickens is the protest when it comes to horrendous crimes? Truly these crimes are no longer crimes, but simply the ‘way it is.’
Perhaps when our freedoms are taken away, when our women are raped and beaten, killed, subject to humiliation and to sharia law we will wake up.
But by that time, I’m afraid we’ll all have lost hope. And…I expect to see carnage in the street, death and desolation, the likes of which our America has not seen.
We will die the way Europe will die … murdered, raped, pillaged. The Hand of G-d is writing our epitaph. We should only be fortunate enough to deserve a positive word, a positive memory, as we fade so ignominiously into the bowels of history.
Oh my God! Who do you think you are to judge about a country without really knowing the truth but just an horrible and horrible event.
It was few yrs ago a Christian student had killed so many in University of Virgina. Did you write the same things. I certainly did not blame the religion. (By the way this was not the first one in US. In fact if you want you may check public records to see how horrible this problem is)
It was roughly few yrs ago a Christian man again had raped his own daughter for 17 yrs. Can you believe SEVENTEEN yrs in a CIVILIZED country. Not once, not twice but for SEVENTEEN yrs and had kids. Did you wrote the same things and condemned the religion or the country or just the man who done this horrible act. (By the way this was not the only one in a CIVILIZED Christian country either)
As in all religion extremist are the problem (if you need a reference look back to your own history) and the same is true for Islam.
So stop blaming Islam for things that stupid man and woman do with their little knowledge of Islam or wrong interpretation of Islam.
Turkey is a country where all religions lives in harmony as it did for centuries.
As every country has problems Turkey does too of course.
There is a lot to say but please while writing something please make sure you have respect to people who live there and before you judge make sure at least visited the country couple times and lives there for few months. Otherwise you keep your sick thoughts to yourself.
By the way Turkey is doing as what other civilized countries would do.. ARREST the man and prosecute them. You can be sured that they will be jailed as other have been.
The problem is not punishing them. It is actually done. The problem how can we educate these people so that such “honor killings” would not happen. And it is not only happen toward woman actually more toward the men. It is always the man of the house (not the woman) who is killed when two families are in conflict and it goes on until it gets resolved. Of course they are also punished and jailed but that is not a solution. Solution is education and has nothing to do with the religion as many here have been trying to say.
This, like all “honor” killings, was a disgusting, heinous crime. Read other articles and protest poem and SIGN MY PETITION to take action against “honor” killings at http://newsericks.com/heinous.
From 24. to 29.
First you’re Right: not even Animals slaughters they Kids – but Islamic people do.
This Crime was made by a Kurd? Well, there are many other made by Islamic people.
For those who claim to have been in Egypt as a Tourist and had no Problem, I would like to underline that they were a Tourist.
Honor Killings Mentality exists in Egypt, and very spread.
Especially when it comes to Women’s Sexuality, this is managed by the Males of the Family: having the Girl Sex outside Marriage, she’ll get killed.
Not respecting their (Islamic) RELIGIOUS Tradition, she’ll get killed.
When it comes to Egypt there are People who are not a Tourist there, Copts, which are persecuted by Islamic Invasors. I think their Reality counts more than the Reality of a Tourist.
Kurds were and still are persecuted by Islamic Turks, the Invaders.
Nothing laudable when it comes to Turks, whose National Symbol is Haja Sophia, just because it was a very beautiful and important Church that they got and transformed into a Mosque of their own, and which carried on the Genocide of Armeninans, and oppresses them.
Women’s Inferiority, the Non-punishment for Family Members who punish a Woman of their Family, the Discrimination and Racism against Non-islamic people, the Islamic Supremacism, and the Brutality against so called Apostates of Islam,
this is all Part of that Death Cult called Islam.
That you like it exposed right on your face, or not.
Christanity is based on Jesus’ Ethics, and on the Gospel/New Testament, and Jesus-the-Christ was a true Saint; Islam is based on Muhammad’s “Ethics” and on Koran and aHadith, and Muhammad committed uncountable Crimes. A Criminal cannot say he followed Jesus’ Example, while he can say he followed Muhammad’s.
ABOUT BURKA AND HIJAB, AND THE MEANING OF THEM, PLEASE READ RECENT ARTICLE BY TAWFIK HAMID ON NEWSMAX.COM.
Shortly: Shari’a has no Place in the Free and Responsible World – Period.
hollyglightly123, no I will not lay off and I’m not fooled by your apologia for islam. Muslim women wear head coverings and face veils because it is required of them.
Phyllis has lived in a muslim society having been married to a muslim man at one time and she knows of what she’s talking about.
keep-an-open-eye, “honor” murders are an acceptable part of islam and are widespread. These aren’t isolated incidents or aberations as the example you posted about a Christian man.
And no, extremists in all religions are not the problem. There are no beheadings, fgm, “honor” murders, stonings, floggings, global terrorism occurring in other religions. Those are unique to islam.
“These people are not Turkish they are Kurds, honor killings are part of their “culture”.
…………………………………
Altan, its been said here before, that it’s a cultural thing on the part of Kurds. But in fact “honor” murders are a widespread practice throughout the muslim world.
There is no slavery in the United States. We should not tolerate it in Muslims, and we should not tolerate their slave clothing, either.
These people are not right. They mutilate the female infant by removing her genitalia. The women can not know what it means to be whole.
I find it revolting!
29. keep-an-open-eye:
1) Your statement: [Turkey is a country where all religions lives in harmony as it did for centuries. As every country has problems Turkey does too of course.]
Tell that to the Armenians. This was only a while back, certainly not centuries. How many of them Turkey massacred? A million? Or may be never happened, right? As Turkey wants the world to believe with its campaign of negationism.
2) Your statement: [Oh my God! Who do you think you are to judge about a country without really knowing the truth but just an horrible and horrible event.]
Do you think we are stupid? That you can confuse us so easily?
You can’t compare regular crime, for bad it is, with trampling on a basic human right like worshiping the way you want. IT IS THE ISLAM, BABY. Yes…where are the million Hindus that were in Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, just recently? Did they vanish in thin air, or were murdered, displaced, abused, massacred? Why you can’t enter Saudi Arabia with a Bible?
And on, and on, so shut up and shove your Islam!
25. Marie Claude:
Regardez qui est de retour! Ha, ha, La Dame de la Bretagne!
Wellcomebackmydear. Best wishes to you.
hi MiamaMan, thanks, same to you
But in fact “honor” murders are a widespread practice throughout the muslim world.
The country with the largest number of honor murders is Pakistan. Honor murders are virtually unknown in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country. They are also unknown among Balkan Muslims.
Honor killings are common in the middle-east. And Christians are known to engage in it too(http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/05/more-honor-killings-in-palestine.html). It is a regional shame but not necessarily a religious one.
Re my #18 comment. Long ago, Egypt was a Christian country and was invaded by Arab Muslims. It is very alarming to know what happened to a Christian country invaded by Muslims. Many centuries after the cruel Muslim conquest, Christian females are regarded by the modern-day Muslim Egyptian government, as booty to be seized and horribly abused.
Christian in Egypt: “They Try to Kill Us” Fox news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xicHP-S5Bqg&feature=player_embedded
Coptic Christians Protest for Freedom and Equality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2KA1FfAPg&feature=response_watch
STOP VIOLENCE AGAINST COPTS IN EGYPT.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu2I6Jwhg5E&NR=1
Copts Under Siege 1/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix5OU6lLQNw&feature=related
Copts Under Siege 2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9qKPN6Py0o&NR=1
GLORIFYING the MURDERERS of INNOCENTS: Jihad is an obligation in Islam!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreXb6yxJsE&feature=player_embedded
40. About Indonesia I don’t actually know. But if by Balkan Muslims you mean the ones of Kosovo and Albanians … I hope you are gruesomely kidding! They have that Mentality related to “Honor”, this is part of their Kanun (Code) too – they’re allowed to decide by themselves when do they feel they “Honor” has been hurted, then they’re allowed to violently act against the “Transgressor”. There is also a very gruesome and criminal Mafia coming from Balkans, so called “Albanian Mafia”.
Murat # 19: “Italian gangsters burried many more lives in the American desert while the bodyss were still alive not to mention burrials into the cement blocks. And I am sure Israelis ar killing those innocent civilian palestineans… Somehow no one talks about it. And I wonder why…..”
Hey, I saw Casino and Goodfellas also! I don’t think those were their own children they were burying alive. And sure, nobody talks about the “innocent civilian palestineans” – except for every single person in the middle east who is not Israeli plus half of Europe. Thanks for the comic relief – this thread was getting a little too intense.
The turks no longer have that many Greeks or Armenians to torture so they torture thier own.
One Islamic woman (Hirsi Ali) ended up renouncing her religion entirely and becoming an athiest. She said that she had been in a “mental cage.”
The idea that talking to boys gets you murdered by male family members shows that there are some very passionate Muslim men out there – passionate about ideals that are crazy.
HellenoChristian;
There is indeed ‘honor killing’ in the Balkans but these are blood feuds unrelated to women dishonoring the family. The Balkan culture is European – not middle eastern.
Honor killings in Indonesia:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070520224054AAC52Je
Quote: ‘Yet there are still areas of modern thought, showing this a cultural practice not Islamic. In Indonesia and parts of West Africa honor killings are unknown, as also in with majority-Muslim populations. These areas are not culturally Arab yet Indonesia is the largest Islamic country. These areas give hope for other Islamic nations to also not allow these actions against women.’
MiamaMan;
Yes…where are the million Hindus that were in Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, just recently? Did they vanish in thin air, or were murdered, displaced, abused, massacred?
Hindus did as much killing and displacing as Muslims during the independence of these countries. A little more reading of history should help clear this up.
48. Kelsey:
Kelsey, Kelsey, you are the one who need to review the history, please.
Yes, during the marches of partition the killing was done by both groups. I was not referring to that. At that time, it was literally tick for tack.
While Muslims flourish in India, and have flourished since partition…my question was…where are the millions of Hindus that, when partition occurred, lived in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Kashmir, even Afghanistan? But murdered, displaced by force, terrorized, massacred by intolerant Islam.
Do you want to context that? Fell free to do so.
Plenty of folk talk of what a modern, vibrant country Turkey is, including Thomas Barnett.
…as if certain chosen economic and cultural factors are all that matters.
As in Communist China.
Enlightened Airless Entertainment
47. Who cares if they are not Middle Eastern? Kosovo-albanians follows their Honor Code called Kanun, which happens to be an Arabic Word for Code. I had the Displeasure to know about this Honor Thing from the very Mouth of a Kosovo-albanian, very Proud of their own Violence and Honor Mentality – sic -.
It anway interests me that Thing about Indonesia: be clear that this alleged Indonesian Innocence does change Nothing to the Fact that other Islamic Communities – see Phyllis Chesler’s Study about Honor Killings – do have this Honor Mentality, RELATED TO THEIR RELIGION (ISLAM), and do practice it.
Speaking of Communist China, and violators of human rights, Buddy’s favorite Buddy, Brent Scowcroft, has not been resting on his laurels:
Overhaul of export controls on table
The Scowcroft report, “Beyond ‘Fortress America’: National Security Controls on Science and Technology in a Globalized World,” stated that current export controls “now quietly undermine our national security and our national economic well-being.”
“The entire system of export controls needs to be restructured, and the visa controls on credentialed foreign scientists and engineers should be further streamlined to serve the nation’s current economic and security challenges,” the report said.
The report said the export-control system is “fundamentally broken” and will not be fixed with piecemeal changes without direction from the president.
According to the report, for some 20 years, the administration and Congress could not agree on how to control dual-use exports, the report said. The failure has “led to unnecessary vulnerabilities in our national security and in our economic competitiveness.”
EDITED DOWN FOR LENGTH, SEE LINK PROVIDED ABOVE, AM UNCLEAR AS TO RELEVANCE.
Boojum, honor killings are most frequent among families from North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Indian subcontinent. And they are mostly muslims.
Indonesia is not so innocent. They are burning churches there.
HellenoChristian;
You said do have this Honor Mentality, RELATED TO THEIR RELIGION (ISLAM), and do practice it.
As the poster in #40 pointed out (with a link) middle-eastern Christians also indulge in honor killing of women. I have also read of such cases.
Here is more info on Kanun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanun.
Read very carefully and it will tell you that Kanun resembles the Italian vendetta system. You should be condemning (those non-Islamic) Italians in the same breath.
Know when religion is at fault and when it is not.
it is it seems a small step from the Islamic sharia tradition that there is no punishment for murdering a female adulterness, to Muslim family members killing their daughters for fratinising with non approved males! Evil is done when good people stand aside ans are silent.
So yes it has its roots in Islamic sharia.
55. I have NO DOUBTS that Mafious System has been brought to Italy through ISLAMIC South Italian (Sicilian) Invasion of the Old Continent. I had to realize that Islamic Society is a Mafious System and yes, me too I saw Relations between the various Mafious Honor Codes: considered how the Old Continent Evolved, and considered how Islam is still a Mafia today too, I had to consider Islamic Invasion of Italy and the Spreading of its Mentality there.
I don’t know what does Wikipedia tell about Kanun, I anyway know that it Nowadays is the Code used by Albanian Mafia – that People publically talk about it or denies it (Taqyyah). It’s Mafia.
I don’t know about Christian Honor Murders in the Middle East, maybe you’d like to tell more about that?
You’re anyway challenged in finding Words and Acts in Jesus-Christ’s Life which justify Violence on Women or any kind of Violence; Honor Violence has been practiced and justified by Muhammad and its “Religion”/Policy.
“One who look deep inside to herself/himself before blaming others will see that (s)he has a big role on what is happening”
“These people are not Turkish they are Kurds, honor killings are part of their “culture”.
In denial, how very convenient in the face of this hideous atrocity. Actually, “these people” are Turkish Kurds, a minority residing in the South East of Turkey. Turkish Kurds are 80% Sunni Muslims.
It is so strange, it is not; that the islamic spoke persons are forever claiming that islam encompasses every aspect of a Muslims life and in particular family life and morals. And then, when confronted with such misogynist crimes of the most brutish kind, they turn around and claim that such crimes have absolutely nothing to do with islam. Of course, no believe them any more, but yet they continue to do it!
26. hollyglightly123
Glad you didnt mind be heckled in Egypt. I, however, minded greatly when a muslim man stared me down with unmistakable disgust in his eyes as I walked into the post office right here in the United States of America.
“…far more harassed here in NYC’?
By whom, construction workers with their cat calls and whistles? Not much of a camparison since there isn’t much chance they’re going to come down off their scaffolds and pinch your butt or something.
Disturbing, illuminating, and very painful to read on Valentine’s Day.
Yet this long article, so hard to read, needs to be seen and its implications understood. Perhaps more candor and more accurate statistics about the brutality and prevalence of these horrible “honor” murders can awaken us. Perhaps.
Up until 7 years ago Turkey was the only truly secular and democratic republic in its geography, but, thanks to long term us-eu plans, the “obeying” islamist party was “elected” by means of the “cisco” programmed electronic voting system and ever since, for the first time in the history of the republic, true democrats, officials, military personell, reporters and academicians are arrested by the tens and hundreds without any evidence….thank you usa, such a great ally you have become..
You are right I am Egyptian and I remember when I was younger like in 80s it was rare to see woman in Hijab. I think The people that went to Gulf in the 70s and Came back with money and they became the nouvuex rich in the Society has brought the Gulf Culture with them. And that Sadat the former President has supported the Islamist right wing groups to stop the communist and The Islamist he supported are the ones who turned against him so it is very hard to change the culture that has been built right now may be needs 20 to 30 years.
I think the general public are starting to wake up to the threat of the islamic cult, however, with our governments and medias failing to act, the west will most likely fall to islam. They want another holocost in europe. Our best line of defense is to try to integrate with the immegrants so that they dont hate us too much when they are the majority and have imposed shiara law.