Britain’s most prominent Muslim businessman, who was trapped inside a burning hotel in the Mumbai terror attacks, is calling on the government to toughen measures against extremist preachers. Sir Gulam Noon, one of Labour’s most generous donors, says the door is being left open for foreign imams to radicalise thousands of young Muslims in mosques.
Finally, miracle of miracles, Thomas L. Friedman, in today’s New York Times, writing about the Fort Hood jihadist (“America vs the Narrative”) concludes thusly:
“Whenever something like Fort Hood happens you say, ‘This is not Islam.’ I believe that. But you keep telling us what Islam isn’t. You need to tell us what it is and show us how its positive interpretations are being promoted in your schools and mosques. If this is not Islam, then why is it that a million Muslims will pour into the streets to protest Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, but not one will take to the streets to protest Muslim suicide bombers who blow up other Muslims, real people, created in the image of God? You need to explain that to us — and to yourselves.”
Is the old magic not working anymore? Are people no longer as easily fooled by false allegations of “Islamophobic racism”? Do we understand that it is dangerous to tolerate the intolerant?
Ah, but when will someone at the White House understand that although the Bush administration made many mistakes (it did not try the Guantanamo inmates a lot sooner and in a military court)– the Obama administration decision to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others as if they are American citizens, is an even bigger mistake?
My thanks to “Esther” who covers Islam in Europe. Please read her for a more complex interpretation of this vote which she sees not as in favor of liberal or feminist values but rather as a vote for “ethnic identity.”
AN UPDATE
Amnesty International said that the vote would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.
The involvment of Swiss feminists against the minaret is a WONDERFUL thing. I am heartened and relieved by this. At least they have understood that race and culture are NOT the same thing.
As a feminist I firmly believe that women’s rights come first. Period.
Cheers on swiss feminists!
Maybe the US & other nations should follow Swiss style direct democracy?
The Swiss just voted to ban minarets on mosques and this is a great exercise of their unique form of direct democracy regardless of your views on the subject. But my question is why do the Swiss get to overrule their politicians and parliament and here in the US, we don’t have that right?
Let’s bring Swiss style direct democracy to the United States so Americans can vote on the Wall Street bailouts, government health care, whether to audit or abolish the FED, or require Congress declare war before we invade another country. Read why Switzerland is free and America is not and help restore citizen control over the US government and Congress currently under control of special interests. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/holland9.1.1.html
Despite the fact that Islam oppresses women, and despite the fact that minarets are a symbol of Islam, I think that banning minarets is a bad idea. It will be counterproductive. One can’t ban houses of worship or structures that are linked to houses of worship. The world will scream that Switzerland does not have freedom of religion.
On the other hand, I was delighted to see Friedman’s column. Friedman wasn’t trying to be balanced, as he so often does in situations where balance is inappropriate. He wasn’t trying to be a wiseguy, even though being a wiseguy is something columnists love to do.
I haven’t yet seen any columns about the murderous train bombing in Russia. Jihadists, who are totally selfless, feel they should kill Russians because it is beautiful and moral to kill and die. They don’t care about the fact that Russia has cooperated with Iran and other extremist Muslim regimes for much too long. They are willing to end Russia’s tolerancee for their terrorism because they feel that their cuckoo idea of morality trumps strategy.
Chavez is railing against Israel and has praised Carlos the Jackal. I haven’t read any analysis that points out the utter absence of any tactical or practical reason for Chavez to want to fight Israel. For that matter, no columnist has ever noticed that Ahmadinejad, a ruler who dislikes Arabs and hates Sunnis, has no logical reason to oppose Israel. Iran is tempting the world to impose sanctions because of its nuclear efforts. Iran is tempting Israel to bomb its nuclear facilities. Iran is eager to arm Hamas, but it certainly would never do anything to alleviate the hardships of Arabs living in Gaza or in refugee camps. Will a columnist ever notice this?
Wow! This is not the Switzerland that I knew. Is it just me or is Political Correctness taking some hits recently. The Swiss find they have a pulse. The living embodiment of PC, POTUS, loses his shine. Ft. Hood attacked by a muslim enemy of the USA, enabled by PC and no amount of spin will convince people otherwise. Climategate. ACORN. Norway becomes the Clown College of the West. Is it gathering speed?
Grab a coffee and throw another log on the old campfire.
“One can’t ban houses of worship or structures that are linked to houses of worship. The world will scream that Switzerland does not have freedom of religion.”
Thats presuming one accepts “”islam” as a “religion”.
Islam is a religion like auschwitz was a theme park.
Afaic, so-called “radical islam” is a murderous socio-political death cult, and so-called “moderate islam” is nothing but a trojan horse.
Banning minarets is a great start. Now lets get some architects working on moving that obamanation (sic) off of the Temple Mount and sending it back to Jordan.
When the Swiss, the keepers of Nazi pelf, finally awaken to the creeping insidiousness of islam, be assured that their cries of alarm are not for the freedoms of the west but, as history points put, for the preservation of their own insular culture. Still, I’m pleased to hear that some momentum is gathering.
Great for Thomas Friedman’s belated recognition to the agenda behind islam. May this be the first recognition of the muddle headed that islam is anything but the ‘religion of peace’ they have portrayed it to be.
Anyone making odds on the likelihood of mass demonstrations of Muslims protesting honor killings, clitoridectomies and suicide bombings done in the name of islam?
Excellent news from Switzerland and my prayer is that the rest of dhimmi europe will follow suit.
Where are the churches and cathedrals in the Middle East. One or two perhaps in Egypt, and the odd one in Kuwait and Qatar, but they are limited to that and kept well out of sight and every opportunity is taken in order parts of the world to destroy other houses of worship. As for Saudi Arabia, forget it. The Saudis are financing mosques all over the Western world and their aim is to build mosques higher than the nearest church or cathedral or synagogue for that matter, so that the mosques becomes the dominant feature of our western skyline as declared in Saudi Arabia a few years’ ago, where our churches claim that right as of now. It must NEVER happen as their declared agenda is to islamize us all and for us to live within the confines of sharia law.
The remarks of the often inane Thomas L. Friedman are most welcome. Better late than never. He is now saying what others have long been pointing out. Pinch Sulzberger will not be pleased. Friedman has placed the Times editors in a very awkward position. Will others follow his lead? The next week or two should be interesting.
Four police officers were assassinated today in Parkland, Washington. The suspect is black. The odds are high that this was a Islamic extremist hit. These officers were deliberately targeted and not responding to a crime in progress! Regular street criminal rarely, if ever, murder police officers in this manner.
Expecting the lot of deformed souls, hacks, reprobates, zombies and other assorted ilk inside the Beltway to do a 180 degree turn, is the same as expecting a leopard to change its spots. It isn’t going to happen, and frankly those inside the Beltway need to be taken out of the equation by an alternative government. For this alternative government bears a closer resemblance to what is outside the Beltway, which does not sustain what is
inside the Beltway.
Plus this alternative government has to be in place until all oars are in the water pulling the same way, when it comes to what is said by Michael Ledeen and Michael Walker. Until such time, those who do not go the same way subject themselves to be removed on the basis of national security.
Sweet victory for the swiss;congratulations.
Next step; ban the mosques altogether. Praying should be
a personal matter between man and his God anyway.
As for islam; it is simply an arab supremacist ideology
and all non-arab muslims are simply ignorant fools.
No one becomes muslim by saying that he/she believes in god; one must confirm that he/she believes in allah the
arab demon as his/her god and that mohammad the arab as
allah’s messenger/prophet.
Some days make it all worthwhile.
Women, not men, will stop the barbarism of Islam. I don’t doubt it for one minute. Not the squishy liberal kind of feminism, but the “we demand to be heard” kind of feminism that can change the world.
Meanwhile, in America, the president bends over backward to appease and stroke Islam and Muslims, to the point where he is the first president to be too “busy” on National Prayer Day (for Christians), but he hosts an Eid Iftar dinner and praises Muslims as if they discovered America and were the only contributers to its greatness. It was pathetic and full of lies to appease a group he cares deeply about.
Finally the west seems to be growing a backbone.
At least the Swiss are.
Now lets see the rest of the world catch up so we can begin to get some closure on this “Islam” thing once and for all.
As far as churches synagogues and other religous buildings in the Middle East, most of the surviving ones were built long before Mo and his thugs arrived on the scene. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Turkey and even Lebanon were among the first Christian areas on the globe.
Now much of that legacy is threatened. Just like the Taliban destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghansitan, so to, will Muslim nations destroy other world heritage sites in the name of their supermacist ideology.
The fact that the leaders of Islam allow fanatics to congregate, preach and organize in their mosques is tacit approval of their agenda. All they need to do is sit back and watch, without ever having to issue a direct order. In the west that is called plausible deniability.
Religious tolerance is a two way street but for Islam it is one way traffic. Why should non Muslim countries allow Muslims to construct mosques when these mosques are used to pray five times towards a country where every non Muslim human being in this planet goes to jail for preaching or practicing their religion. Islam is not about peace but submitting to the will to Allah. Koran does not tolerate any other religion and demands the death and destruction of all non Muslims. As a Hindu I know what is Islam is all about. You can read Indian History and find that what Islam did was murder, plunder, rape, pillage and bring death and destruction to India, The reason India did not succumb to Islamic intolerance because Hinduism is too complicated to convert. But go to any Hindu holy place in North India you can see symbol of Islamic intolerance that was built on top of Hindu holy sites
To Ron,
And may be the US and other nations should stop establishing and supporting Wahabi-Salafi Islam?
The Anglo-American-Wahabi Alliance
http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88774
Dig it?
Yes, Phyllis, I too was shocked to find a piece by L’il Tommy Friedman that I agreed with. It took him only 2 weeks to figure out that the Fort Hood massacre was an act of jihad. That is progress.
To Jochnowitz,
And may be Russia should let those “Jihadists” their national independence, no?
http://users.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/2004/chechen_ind.htm
George Jochnowitz: Excellent comment, and I urge you to re-think just a bit what minarets symbolize. You wrote:
“One can’t ban houses of worship or structures that are linked to houses of worship. The world will scream that Switzerland does not have freedom of religion.”
Minarets are not required structures adjunct to mosques; they are optional, and they have no particular religious significance. Their universal symbolism has been and remains political. The minarets, phallically towering above adjacent buildings (for example, most church bell towers) symbolize the triumphant, supremacist arrival of Islam. They proclaim, arrogantly, to the surrounding community: This is Dar al Islam; we’ll be coming for the rest of your property, laws, and society shortly.
The Swiss vote against minarets (not mosques) was, I submit, a clear message to those who promote political Islam; and that message was an emphatic “NO!” to the totalitarian ideology originated by Mohammed and imperialistically imposed by Muslims upon conquered culture after conquered culture for nearly 14 centuries since. The Swiss have proclaimed, proudly and intelligently, “Not in our country.”
To the “feminists”,
What if they cannot afford this?
“Teenage Pregnancy”
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=ig&q=teenage+pregnancy&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Wonderful and hopeful news! Finally, someone has called the supposed religion and its mindless followers out! GOD, it feels good to read something which throws political correctness out and places truth in the forefront! This is one practice I wish would go viral, around the world! If so, the world would have one less pestilence…the silent practice of sharia laws! Rest in Peace, Sarah and Amina!
Great news indeed. Let us hope that the rest of Europe keeps pushing back. Of course, Amnesty International is making noises that the European Human Rights Council will force the Swiss in line with the Muslim Brotherhood agenda.
Has Amnesty been taken over by the bad guys? Since when is defending a murderous cult of enslavement and death a good thing for human rights?
While the Swiss referendum banns minarets, but not mosques, and certainly doesn’t outlaw Islam or seek to expel Muslims, it does sound an alarm: enough is enough! True, most of the Muslims in Switzerland are from the Balkans and hardly Arab fanatics or radicals or terrorists. Still: enough is enough.
Norman
The word “minaret” is derived from a word that means lighthouse.Banning minarets to protest Islamic sexism makes about as much sense as it would make to ban lighthouses to protest sexism in the U.S. Navy.
Not a smart move on the part of the right-wing Swiss political parties that supported this legislation; which is not pro-woman but anti-architecture.
When Khalid Sheik Mohammed is tried in a U.S. court in NY – as he should be – I hope that all of the evidence obtained through his having been waterboarded over 180 times is excluded from testimony.
That should serve as an incentive to future right wing extremists who may be tempted to cut corners on the Bill of Rights by emulating the failed Cheney/Bush styled strategy to “protect” us from terrorism by descending to the level of the terrorists.
Please allow me to do some SCARE SCARE CRAZY TALK ! CRAZY TALK ! A Muslim who does not do what prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him, to hell with everyone else;)tells him to do is not a Muslim (socializing with Christians, Jews, Hindus who he should be slaughtering, drinking, dancing, listening to music , enjoying art, being nice, paying tax in foriegn lands which he is not allowed to do so hes not allowed to work so hes forced on welfare which hes also not allowed to do so he goes crazy and takes flying lessons, wifey abuse the insanity list is too damn long. In other words a muslim just living in the west is a radical Muslim and is a serious threat to his own existence. He’s breaking dozens of prophet Mohammeds (peace be upon him, to hell with everyone else;)rules and deserves to die. Freedom is not allowed, and it’s garanteed. This is why Islam is spreading like a wildfire across Europe because each individual is monitored by his comunity and himself , with the threat of death, which he and everyone else knows is not an idle one. Slowly but surely the converts keep rolling in by the thousands every year with just a handful leaving (dead)and never finding happiness. For some reason (and i just dont know why)being happy happy is so elusive to the morbid angry looking muslims because i thought Prof. Mo. has the magical formula fo HA-PENIS. Ha! The Penis is what you get when you join this cult.
Mulims (and non muslims) are murdered every year because of disobediance to MR. Mo. There is three ways to Islame, I mean Islam. Coercion, threats or born into it. One way out DEATH. Thats why it will only grow and never reverse, each member a prisoner and can never leave because SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WATCHING (family, friends, school, work, streets etc..)
There is no person on the planet with a sound mind would go for this NON SENSE cult after reading about its history and what it stands for/believes in. But they are tageting the right folk (poor, uneducated, desperate people)Plus they got the death thing backing them. When being prosletized/hypnotized by them, you know the horrors their capable of, so their convincing you to join is made easier (they know how to work the subconscience, at least on some folk). Especially in neighborhoods where they make the majority. Imagine living in the middle of the no go zone! HA!PENIS! In London there are mass conversions in some neighbourhoods, with beautiful young redheads screaming “DEATH TO ENGLAND”
Religion (in general)implies That God is good, and that by doing good in life one gets closer to God, so that you can live the ‘good’life. This is probably the only religion in the world that advocates violence and cruelty upon others, including FAMILY, to get closer to God. This is not a religion. This is a shock /horror/death cult, with no ave. of escape for it’s PRISONERS.
EVERY COUNTRY, THAT MUSLIMS MOVE INTO EVENTUALY BECOMES MUSLIM COUNTRY and a moral shit hole. FACT. LOOK IT UP. UNLESS THE INHABITANTS GO TO WAR AND FIGHT FOR THEIR LIVES AND THROW THE DEMONS OUT, OR IF THE DEMONS LEAVE.THERE ARE MANY EX-CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES THAT ARE NOW MUSLIM, AND THE CHRISTIANS ARE SUFFERING. Their is no such thing as an ex-Muslim country (unless they were violently thrown out, politicly or militarly) Every country that did not fight them lost their country. Europe fought them for a few HUNDED YEARS finally ejecting them, only to INVITE THEM BACK to TAKE IT FROM THEM FOR FREE.Their ancestors are rolling over in their graves in total disgust. WHAT A FUC?ING WASTE OF HUMAN LIFE. Hundeds of thousands of Christians were SLAUGHTERED in defense of their homeland against the demonic tsunami that tried to exterminate them. EUROPE WILL BE A MUSLIM CONTINENT.THEY REFUSE TO FIGHT AND EVEN ENCOURAGE MORE IMMIGRATION, SOON TURKEY WILL BE A MEMBER OF E.U. AND FROM THEIR IT WILL BE A SLOW DEATH FOR EUROPE. JUST AS A SNAKE SWOLLOWS ITS CAPTURED PREY SLOWLY WITH ITS VICTIMS HEAD BEING DIGESTED FIRST,WITH ITS LEGS STILL MOVING, SO IS EUROPE RIGHT NOW. IT IS SLOWLY BEING EATEN BUT BY THE TIME IT WAKES UP ITS HEAD WILL BE DISOLVED, A MUSLIM ZOMBIE CORPSE,with Russia,Canada and America next.POLITICALY CORRECT is to blame. When they come crying to Jesus for help ,will he listen, after inviting the sons of Satan into his homelands?
There is a HORRIFIC NIGHTMARE coming upon Eurabia. 45% of the Rusian military is Muslim. Over 400 NUCLEAR WARHEADS ARE MISSING. When Khadafi was at an Arab summit in Egypt he was bragging that their is over 50 million muslims in Europe and soon Turkey is going to join so their will be a bazillion muslims in europe. And then he’s going to turn the “LIGHTS ON”. You figure it out.Some(most)of the worlds most powerful militaries are in the middle east now with the most powerful and technologicaly advanced weaponry in the world, and still getting their asses kicked by just a few thousand goons with turn of the century weaponry.Europe is full of these guys, millions, IN THEIR BACK YARD WITH ACCESS TO SENSITIVE/HIGH RISK AREAS. All we can do is pray for Europe to wake up. “man cannot serve both God and money, he will love one and hate the other. appease that SNAKES oil bitches and DIE!!!! These are truly the end of days, Satans last full scale assault on Gods SANCTUARY. BOO BOOO BOOOO! Scary !!!BOO! ARGGHHHHH! Good night and may God love Bless and protect all of you, his servants. I am tired . Goodnight!
Marion L you are a sicko. Would you have preferred another terrorist attack resulting in the deaths of thousands of Americans rather than waterboarding this jihadist? Foreign enemies waging war against America and captured on foreign battlefields have no constitutional rights. What the hussein obama administration is doing is unprecedented. These islamic jihadi scum should have been tried before a military tribunal and executed.
Part 1)
7. and 22. answered to The Question.
27. Which kind of Light dear? The Light of Evil? Islam is not a Right-wing problem, is a problem for whole Humanity, and it is so since 14+ centuries ago! Islam is about Politics, and banning Minarets is a consequence of Islamic Politics all around the World: Swiss refuses such a Policy in their Country, for/among their people. Islamic is very hitlerian Nazism alike, and the latter has been refused: Switzerland refuses th former, too. Simple Coherence. On the other hand, your alleged Logics is very weak and poor, not to mention your comment about Right-wing political Parties’ position about the Islamic subject: either you’re ignorant (about Islam/Islamism) or you’re colluded (with it). Hopefully mentally confused people like you won’t further confuse people about the nature of Islam (enough people read Islamic/Islamist sources and follow Islamic/Islamist scholars’ speeches, to understand the nature of Islam.
Otherwise, it is enough people follow past and present History and News about Islam toward/against others: it will be clear to anyone that Islam isn’t a Religion, isn’t of Peace, but it rather is Politics, and of – psychological and phisical Violence -. Glad to know that – eventually – Swiss citizens show to be informed and … yes … clever and brave! They already got threatened by Islamic/Islamist people and Institution – before and after the Vote: this simply helps further to understand the oppressive nature of Islam. “God be praised” that Switzerland was and still be a neutral Democracy, which historically had and still not have a lot to do with Islam, and the good News – for the free world – is that Switzerland is “at the Core of European Continent” – who knows, maybe the whole Continent/Europe will wake up and fight back the “new hitlerian Nazism”, which is Islam/Islamism).
About your comments Marion L., why don’t you go and live in an Islamic/Islamist Country, which is not and never will be anyone in America, or Europe, in the West? You seem so concerned with those poor terrorists, hate preachers, misogynists, brainwashers, sado-masochists, paedophiles … do you worry so much for them. I think you are the perfect woman for them, I hope they will marry you soon, take you in their “beautiful” Countries and communities, and eventually, raping, stoning, honor killing or mistreating, lashing, whatever else you, and or your family’s members, in order you, and your family’s members, to feel “purified and pure”, and “obedient to the Will of Allah-and-Muhammad, submitted to it”.
Marion: do you suffer of Sado-masochism? That’s just a question. About methods to fight against Terrorism/Terror/Threats: European Continent has been freed from hitlerian Nazism not certainly – and I agree, unfortunately – through “Peace and Love” and “Flower Power”. I hope you might understand why, you/we liking it or unliking.
Part 2)
About your comments Marion L., why don’t you go and live in an Islamic/Islamist Country, which is not and never will be anyone in America, or Europe, in the West? You seem so concerned with those poor terrorists, hate preachers, misogynists, brainwashers, sado-masochists, paedophiles … do you worry so much for them. I think you are the perfect woman for them, I hope they will marry you soon, take you in their “beautiful” Countries and communities, and eventually, raping, stoning, honor killing or mistreating, lashing, whatever else you, and or your family’s members, in order you, and your family’s members, to feel “purified and pure”, and “obedient to the Will of Allah-and-Muhammad, submitted to it”.
Marion: do you suffer of Sado-masochism? That’s just a question. About methods to fight against Terrorism/Terror/Threats: European Continent has been freed from hitlerian Nazism not certainly – and I agree, unfortunately – through “Peace and Love” and “Flower Power”. I hope you might understand why, you/we liking it or unliking.
THANK YOU PHYLLIS CHESLER FOR COVERING THAT (GOOD) NEWS AND FOR LETTING US KNOW ABOUT SWISS FEMINISTS: HAPPY TO KNOW ABOUT THEM, TOO.
Marion L is the enemy…politically correct in every way or a dhimmi for the mussies.
Why ol gal don’t you read some and see what’s going on around you?
The mussies are murdering dozens a day and you want the waterboard testimony
taken out?
go figure
they should be tried by the military since we don’t need a platform or to piss our money away for a looooooonnnng trial.
islam is NOT a religion but an ideology
Read he truth about islam at
thereligionofpeace.com
and please don’t be so stupid Marion
MOST Islamic nation don’t allow the construction of a new Christian church, much less the display of tall crosses for all to see. Even in Turkey it takes 8 – 10 years for a building permit and licensing of a Christian church, versus a few weeks for a mosque. Even then, the cross has to be small and mostly hidden. There would be howling all over the Middle East if Western/non-muslim nations applied the same standard to muslims that muslims apply to all others.
In India we also have a dhimmi governmentbut we have mainstream political party, which has been created to support the majority. Probably you should convert the Republican party as majority supporting party.
You know, UNO will try and change the voting result, while Sweden said to be outraged by the voting about minarets’ ban itself, and Indonesia and Egypt showed outrage, and France too. (Where are we living, I wonder? Which World am I living in? Is that the same World I was born or is it changing and collapsing under Islamic – appearently very powerful – Mafia?)
Direct Democracy, neutral Democracy, Heart of Europe … Everything gets destroyed by Islam and its Fellows – and they say to be persecuted: they persecute others, Peace loving people! Islam is a Nightmare.
By the Way, and off topic (but somehow tied to the whole argument). What about this Police officers’ killing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqVd-IK1qj0&feature=player_embedded [is that another Islamist - or tied to Islamism - killing?]
I am a catholic working in Saudia Arabia for 8 years. Were is my Church? Where is my Church? Please answer me, there is absoulety not 1 single church in saudia arabia.
West has forgotten all about us christains in the middle-east. We are the scape-goats in a larger bargining table where the mighty bucks talks more than our christain heritage.
There are thousands of Mosque in Europe, can you say the same for the middle-east. I leave that answer to you !!!!
The so-called moderate muslims have had years to control the extremists in their religion. Their inability to rein in the violence and hatred shows their lack of power. They have lost the fight and thus do not represent Islam and muslims. If they can’t roll back Islamic facism then we must.
Ms. Chesler appears to blame Mr. Bush for the fact that the inmates of Gitmo were not tried before a military tribunal in a timely fashion. Would someone please acquaint her with the name “Eric Holder” and explain to her his role, and that of his law firm, in throwing up repeated roadblocks to the expediting of those tribunals?
It is a badge of honor to be called “a sicko” by Laura, who has never even met me. The Bill of Rights, which I support, is the document that gives her the right to call me “a sicko” but that fact apparently escapes her.
“mo-suck” thinks I’m the enemy; not realizing that the Bill of Rights that I defend is what gives “mo-suck” the right to call me the enemy. As a holder of 2 masters degrees,(one in anthropology with a strong gender studies component & the other in library & information science) it does not at all concern me that “mo-suck” thinks I’m stupid. I know I’m intelligent. And by the way, philosophically I’m a universalist on human rights issues; not a relativist as some would incorrectly assume.
HellenoChristian wants to know why I don’t leave the U.S. and go live in an Islamic country. It’s because the U.S. has a Bill of Rights and the countries cited by HellenoChristian do not. HellenoChristian needs to read the Bill of Rights, and then perhaps HellenoChristian will not go into as much of a tizzy when someone else (me for example) exercises her Constitutional right to disagree with HellenoChristian.
To Laura, mo-suck and HellenoChristian: I know you are disappointed that the Eighth Amendment to the Bill of Rights does not lend credence to your avid enthusiasm for water-boarding; a horrific torture first used against Jews during the Spanish Inquisition. However, as an American citizen who takes our founding documents seriously, I am grateful that it does not. You may, of course, find more support for waterboarding in the governments and prisons of the Middle Eastern dictatorships that you assume would be hospitable places for me. Ironically, I think they would be more hospitable places for all 3 of you; given your tendency to play fast and loose with settled law when the political situation becomes too frightening or complex for you to evaluate dispassionately.
Marion, I don’t know if you are a Lawyer or you just know the Bill of Rights by heart, and that’s all. You say that you have the Right to disagree with me: don’t I have the same toward you? Here people are considering a worldwide Reality about Islam, its Preachings, its present and past Reality: why not spend some Time to know better about it, instead of spending all your Time reading and reciting “the Bill of Rights”? Maybe let’s meditate on that one: “tolerating Intolerance is not Tolerance” (“1 million Dollars’” Question: who said that?). Well: enjoy your America (United States) and your Bill of Rights before your beloved new Islamic/Islamist President will allow total islamification of it (he has personally nothing to loose acting that way), which means, the ban of the Bill (because anything which is not Shari’a alike will be considered – ironically – outdated).
Well,Marion, I see that you are a dhimmi and a complete hypocrite seeing that you have no worries with women being stoned to death and “honor” killings.
Maybe you could use your valuable time to research what islam has done for the world in the 1400 years of it’s life/death.
Do you realize that mo married ayisha when she was 6, yes that’s right, 6 years old and consummated their marriage when she was the tender age of 9?
Before he married her he had erotic dreams of her when she was a 2-3 year old.
You continue to use The Bill of Rights like a monkey on a chain.
I have been a libertarian for 20+ years and know what the founding fathers meant.
To imply that they (like you) would give up and accept what was going on in the US, things like what the wonderful B Hussein Obama is doing is ludicrous
I’m sure they would do what had to be done to protect Americans, apparently unlike you
You have a lot of schooling(book smart) but as HelenoChristain said go there and live a while and see what it’s like to be under the boot of mangy old dogs that rate you as a commodity no better than animals (real life)
I’d really hate to see what would become of you.
The Obama admin has thrown the Constitution and the Bill of Rights out the window.The muslims are using stealth and whining to keep on top, but as more see this they(free men/women) will,they will do what is necessary to continue to have freedom and liberty.
I am curious though,why would you want them tried in a federal court?
They are already recanting their testimony and America needs to spend more so
Obama can push through his crazy bills and bankrupt America, put this debt on our grandchildren’s backs .Will that make you happy?
Again please go to thereligionofpeace.com and read whats in store for us kuffars and infidels.
These guys(mussies) ARE NOT fooling around but all it takes are fools to allow them their way.
Sorry if I upset you so, you are a learned person
maybe a bit of a braggart too.Oh my iq is only 130 so you are much smarter to sit in those classes for all those years and get those great cudos than me traveling and learning as I go/went.
Talk to you soon I’m sure
THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR
Burning on every continent except Antarctica.
Against everyone and everything non-Islamic.
Allah is the inspiration.
The Koran is the war manual.
Muhammed is the supreme commander.
Bin Laden & al Zawahiri are the generals.
The Clerics are the colonels.
The Minarets are the watchtowers.
The Mosque is the command post.
The Muslim is the Soldier of Allah (SoA).
The campaign is Jihad.
The command is to convert, subjugate or kill the ‘infidel’.
The objective is dar al-Harb.
The reward is 72 houris, wine, and gluttious promiscuity in 7th heaven.
Israel. Africa. Europe. Russia. China. Thailand. The Philippines. Australia. North America. South America.
THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR. Here. Now.
~The Infidel Alliance
Every Muslim, peaceful or not, is a potential “Soldier of Allah”. Every Muslim must profess the Shahada “There is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger”.
Allah’s messenger ‘revealed’ the direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah in the Koran, which states (33:21) that in Muhammed, Muslims have “an excellent model of conduct”. Islamic tradition fetes Muhammed as “al-insan al-kamil” or “the perfect man”.
But was Muhammed truly “an excellent model of conduct” and “the perfect man”? As recorded in the Islamic ‘holy’ texts for all the world to discover is that by any objective standard, Muhammed was far from being an excellent model of conduct.
The hard truth is that Muhammed was a sadistic sociopath, a murderer, a decapitator, an amputator, a torturer, a mutilator, a slaver and human trafficker, a kidnapper, a rapist and sex trafficker, a looter and a thief, a liar, a paedophile rapist, a sexual deviant, a genocidist, a self proclaimed terrorist, an evil man afflicted by unquenchable sexual lust, driven by an infinite thirst for power and adulation, and motivated by unending material greed.
Muhammed was perhaps one of the most vile and disgusting men in the pantheon of human history. He was nothing more than a successful Charles Manson. Muhammed should be reviled, not revered. And like Manson, Muhammed should have been incarcerated, not venerated.
Yet, MUHAMMED SET THE STANDARD OF MORALITY for ALL MUSLIMS to follow.
Every pathology that afflicts Islam can be traced directly to the examples, teachings and mandates of Muhammed.
Qur’an (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
Bukhari (52:220) – Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’
Muhammed…a sick and evil man……the archetypal role model for all Islamic terrorists…..the moral compass for all Muslims. Is there any wonder there is so much violence and hatred in the name of Islam today?
When the ‘good Muslim’ is challenged by a pious Muslim to act as Muhammed did, to engage in Muhammed’s Jihad, what option does the ‘good Muslim’ have? He must either reject his ‘holy prophet’ and his religion, and face a death fatwa, or he must join the Jihad.
This is exactly what happened to Soldier of Allah, ‘good American Muslim’ Major Nidal Hassan M.D. …….he joined Muhammeds Jihad.
~The Infidel Alliance
Mo-Suck needs to learn that it is possible to have more than one idea at a time. For example, I know that the Bill of Rights is good and as a feminist, I also know that honor killings, forced marriages and gender apartheid are bad. That is why I’m so glad that the Bill of Rights includes a First Amendment, because that is what gives me the freedom to speak out against human rights abuses that target women. In addition, Mo-Suck has still not explained how banning minarets (a type of tower on a building) will help protect women against gender-based violence.
HellenoChristian has not yet heard the news that President Obama is a Christian. So here is some news for HellenoChristian: President Obama is a Christian. Not only is he a Christian, he is a Christian who is very friendly with lots of Jews. For example, his Chief of Staff, Rahm Emmanuel is a Jew of Israeli origin. I don’t think that many Islamic extremists would like that very much, HellenoChristian. In addition, President Obama is the first American president to hold a Passover Seder in the White House. I don’t think that many Islamic extremists would like that either. However, HellenoChristian cannot be bothered with facts like these because her response to Islamic extremism is not based on fidelity to useful things like facts. Rather, HellenoChristian seems to think that panic, stridency, and her own brand of right wing extremism will protect her in a complex and dangerous world. She is mistaken. It will not.
Marion: yes, I heard what he said, and I also know that even previous being elected none else but Muammar Khadafi encouraged people voting for Obama since “he is one of us (Islamic people)”, and that for the Islamic world one whose Father (and or Stepfather) is an Islamic person must be Islamic (the fact Obama hasn’t been called an Apostate which worths to be killed says a lot about its “religious belonging”), and I also heard about Obama’s lie (appearently just one on many) which stated his Grandmother to be a Christian but this year going to Hajj to Mecca, and I also heard Obama telling enormous lies about Islamic world in his (famous) Cairo’s Speech and, on the other hand, defaming the West. (I heard that both his Campaing and Hillary’s got financed by United Arab Emirates, which look very Western outside, but very Islamic inside – therefore your beloved Hussein lives and has a wealthy life thanks to Islamo-dollars).
(By the way: you stress on Christianity, while Christianity is a Religion. Islam is a political System, if you just missed that – very important and basic – detail. Therefore the discussion has to be based not on Religions but on Politics. Awaiting you there).
Marion: minarets, not willing to see them as Erdogan (PM of Turkey) did, which means as “Islamic bayonets”, could be see as “phallocratic Symbol”, which in the case of Islamic Ideology and teachings, is really accurate.
Now, about my “political Wing”, a mentally restricted person like you jumps to conclusions, and I can do nothing to avoid you to do so, therefore you’re free to jump wherever you want, just allow me to be free enough to note your mental Closeness, and to say “poor World where people are so mental restricted like Marion – a woman? – is”.
Yes, this World is dangerous: for several main reasons, and among them we have
. Misogyny (Islamic one included);
. Totalitarian dictatorial Ideologies (hitlerian Nazism, muhammedan Islam, … included);
. Ingenuity (believing Islam is a/the “Religion” “of Peace” included);
. Ignorance (protecting Islam as if it were a/the “Religion” “of Peace” and demonizing Critics of Islam included);
. ….
Well, have a nice day. Have a nice life.
[Dear, your final words "she is mistaken, I will not". You are just and simply protecting your Illusions, and protecting Islamic/Islamist people and Islam, hoping that they will be good toward you, and or become "good enough". I though understand your reaction, it is natural, you fear them, but you think protecting them against a Critic of them, will save you? Soon or later they will get you: better to fight for our Democracies, free worlds and Civilization right now. That this annoys your day or not. Cheers.]
HellenoChristian said:
“Which kind of Light dear? The Light of Evil? Islam is not a Right-wing problem, is a problem for whole Humanity, and it is so since 14+ centuries ago!”
Arthur C. Clarke said:
“Historically, Islam had a great deal of tolerance for other views and offered the world its priceless wisdom in the form of astronomy and algebra. And, as you know, Islam helped rescue Western civilization from the Dark Ages by preserving classical texts and transmitting them to the West. We, on the other hand, burned the library at Alexandria. If Islam hadn’t fallen into internecine warfare and had gone on to conquer the rest of Europe, we’d have avoided a thousand years of Christian barbarism.”
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/clarke_19_2.html
HellenoChristian said:
“Islamic is very hitlerian Nazism alike, … confuse people about the nature of Islam (enough people read Islamic/Islamist sources and follow Islamic/Islamist scholars’ speeches, to understand the nature of Islam … Islam isn’t a Religion, isn’t of Peace, but it rather is Politics, and of – psychological and phisical Violence … threatened by Islamic/Islamist people and Institution … the oppressive nature of Islam. … the whole Continent/Europe will wake up and fight back the “new hitlerian Nazism”, which is Islam/Islamism)… You seem so concerned with those poor terrorists, hate preachers, misogynists, brainwashers, sado-masochists, paedophiles … do you worry so much for them. I think you are the perfect woman for them, I hope they will marry you soon, take you in their “beautiful” Countries and communities, and eventually, raping, stoning, honor killing or mistreating, lashing, whatever else you, and or your family’s members, in order you, and your family’s members, to feel “purified and pure”, and “obedient to the Will of Allah-and-Muhammad, submitted to it” … Marion: do you suffer of Sado-masochism? That’s just a question. About methods to fight against Terrorism/Terror/Threats: European Continent has been freed from hitlerian Nazism not certainly – and I agree, unfortunately – through “Peace and Love” and “Flower Power”. I hope you might understand why, you/we liking it or unliking.”
The Runnymede report identified eight perceptions related to Islamophobia:
1. Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
2. It is seen as separate and “other.” It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
3. It is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.
4. It is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a clash of civilizations.
5. It is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
6. Criticisms made of “the West” by Muslims are rejected out of hand.
7. Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
8. Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
mo-suck said:
“Well,Marion, I see that you are a dhimmi and a complete hypocrite seeing that you have no worries with women being stoned to death and “honor” killings. Maybe you could use your valuable time to research what islam has done for the world in the 1400 years of it’s life/death.”
Bernard Lewis said:
“For most of the Middle Ages it was neither the older cultures of the Orient nor the newer cultures of the West that were the major centers of civilization and progress but the world of Islam. There old sciences were recovered and developed and new sciences were created; there new industries were born and manufactures and commerce were expanded to a level without precedent. There, too, governments and societies achieved a freedom of thought and expression that led persecuted Jews and even dissident Christians to flee Christendom for refuge in Islam. In comparison with modern ideals, and even with modern practice in the more advanced democracies, the medieval Islamic world offered only limited freedom, but that was vastly more than was offered by any of its predecessors, its contemporaries, or most of its successors.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200201/lewis
The Infidel Alliance said:
“Allah in the Koran, which states (33:21) that in Muhammed, Muslims have “an excellent model of conduct”. Islamic tradition fetes Muhammed as “al-insan al-kamil” or “the perfect man”.”
Ghandi said:
“I wanted to know the best of one who holds today’s undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind….I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life.”
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/quote1.html#gandhi
Helleno-Christian said:
“you stress on Christianity, while Christianity is a Religion. Islam is a political System,”
Both are political – Or you wanna say Christendom of the middle ages was/is not Christian? –
Further, all Abrahamic religions are *Political* — Have you heard of Covenant theology (also known as Covenantalism or Federal theology or Federalism)?-
Here is an excellent source about it:
The Covenant Connection:
From Federal Theology to Modern Federalism
By Daniel Judah Elazar, John Kincaid
http://books.google.com/books?id=fhPbPAsgmkwC&dq=covenant+connection&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Got that “federal theology” thing there?-
Now here is Norman O. Brown on this covenant connection/political tradition played itself out in the Abrahamic tradition:
In Islam is fulfilled the prophecy of Matthew 21:42-43:
“The stone which the builders rejected, the same was made the head of the corner; this was from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes. Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
At this point a necessary and wonderful guide appears, to purify and elevate our understanding of the relation between Islam and Christianity, and to break through the wall of orthodox prejudice that has blocked our understanding of the middle term [the so-called]Gnostic Judaeo-Christian heresy, the stone which the builders rejected.
Henri Corbin picks up Harnack’s proposed definition of Islam as “a transformation on Arab soil of a Jewish religion that had itself been transformed by Gnostic Judaeo-Christianity.” (7)
EDITED, TOO LONG
HellenoChristian: It is really getting to the point where Barney Frank’s response to another fervid extremist is becoming more & more attractive: Better to have a dialogue with a dining room table than to attempt one with you.
However, as it is good writing practice to attempt a rational interchange with you I will reiterate that I’m a feminist who believes in universal human rights and who is sickened by human rights abuses against women. I also happen to oppose human rights abuses against men. That does not mean that I favor Islamic extremism. I do not. It simply means that I’m consistent in my support for human rights; which is the philosophical grounding for protecting us from all forms of extremism; as the framers of the Consittution so wisely understood when they wrote the Eighth Amendemnt prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment. You have yet to disclose whether or not you’ve ever bothered to read it. Presumably, its contents would be of some minimal interest to those on the political right who parade their alleged patriotism and are free and easy with false charges against everyone else.
48. I invite you reading Fjordman’s Files and John J. O’Neill’s ones, you will find the unpolitically correct version of the History, which also the true version (the use of Logic will help you understand what I mean, after you read the textes of the mentioned authors);
48. I invite you reading M. A. Khan or Ibn Kammuna’s textes, in order for you to understand that Islamic Scholars self portray Islam in the “islamophobic” way that man did. Plus, we have past and present historical Reality to check how much “islamophobic” Islam self is! By the way: Islamophobia is a concept invented by Iranian Mullah after Islamic “Revolution”, to portray women who refused to forcibly wear the veil. Therefore, you and your “Islamophobia’s analyzer” really seem very little informed.
52. the Church gained political power when Islamic pirates blocked the Mediterranean Sea. The State allied with the Church, and the Church gained political power: horrible practices in Christianity of the Church were introducted after being affected by Islam – Christianity is there to be seen and read in the Gospel, which I invite you to read. Islamic textes are there to be read too, and from them there is no doubt: Muhammad is/was the Anti-christ. To be “the successor” of someone, you have to belong to his/her Tradition: Muhammad was not a Christian, therefore he is not the successor of Jesus-the-Christ. But I understand: Islam tries with every means and lie to portray itself as the successor of everything and everyone. Muhammad was not a successor: he just profited of the Knowledge already going around in the World, and he added to it his personal interests (Mafia style), whose result is “Islam”.
53. Marion, I don’t mind at all if you talk to a dining table. Really. About “unsual and cruel punishments” I think Nonie Darwish (Apostate of Islam) wrote a book (related to Islam), therefore I suggest you to read it, it will certainly be properly informative. Even if I dislike that “Right/Left wing” discussions, I anyway have to note that it is so called Socialists who are used to injustly defame and insult others, and I don’t think they are so called political Right. Therefore your last assumptions/statement are … guess what … wrong. Bye.
HellenoChristian:
“48. I invite you reading Fjordman’s Files and John J. O’Neill’s ones, you will find the unpolitically correct version of the History, which also the true version (the use of Logic will help you understand what I mean, after you read the textes of the mentioned authors);”
How about you read the Venture of Islam by Marshall G. S. Hodgson
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/presssite/metadata.epl?mode=synopsis&bookkey=3644610
and Muhammad and the origins of Islam by Francis E. Peters
http://books.google.com/books?id=0OrCo4VyvGkC&dq=muhammad+origins+of+islam+peters&source=gbs_navlinks_s
HellenoChristian:
“48. I invite you reading M. A. Khan or Ibn Kammuna’s textes, in order for you to understand that Islamic Scholars self portray Islam in the “islamophobic” way that man did. Plus, we have past and present historical Reality to check how much “islamophobic” Islam self is! By the way: Islamophobia is a concept invented by Iranian Mullah after Islamic “Revolution”, to portray women who refused to forcibly wear the veil. Therefore, you and your “Islamophobia’s analyzer” really seem very little informed.”
After you finish reading Hodgson’s and Peters’ try to work on these two;
Understanding Islam by Frithjof Schuon
http://books.google.com/books?id=G6Vr0kOtjI0C&dq=understanding+islam+schuon&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn ‘Arabi by Henry Corbin
http://henrycorbinproject.blogspot.com/2008/12/50th-anniversary-creative-imagination.html
As for Islamophobia, check here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
HellenoChristian:
“52. the Church gained political power when Islamic pirates blocked the Mediterranean Sea. The State allied with the Church, and the Church gained political power: horrible practices in Christianity of the Church were introducted after being affected by Islam – Christianity is there to be seen and read in the Gospel, which I invite you to read.”
Ya dawnt say ~
“As soon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by imperial edict (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed. Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.”
Christian Crimes against Humanity
http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/48859/christian-crimes-against-humanity.htm
HellenoChristian:
“52. … Muhammad is/was the Anti-christ. To be “the successor” of someone, you have to belong to his/her Tradition: Muhammad was not a Christian, therefore he is not the successor of Jesus-the-Christ. But I understand: Islam tries with every means and lie to portray itself as the successor of everything and everyone. Muhammad was not a successor: he just profited of the Knowledge already going around in the World, and he added to it his personal interests (Mafia style), whose result is “Islam”.”
I hear ya ~
“Muhammad is/was the Anti-christ” coz he showed you and your likes as who you truly are = Manicheans disguised as Christians = NOT Monotheists -
For when you and your ilk equate Jesus with the One God of Abraham you end up positing TWO GODS – One is GOOD = your Sweet-Jesus-God – the other is the Evil God = the Devil = Satan whom a lot of “Christians” are so fond of talking about – since he’s in a perpetual struggle against their Jesus=God, naturally.
In short, what does not look like your Jeezus=God you deem it to be of the Devil – be it Muslim or Buddhist, etc.-
No? -
Go figure ~
58. All the comments you posted show indoctrination, no reasoning, and ingnorance about Christianity, as well as biases against whom you are discussing with. Therefore I can’t do much against that sad condition of you, I know it is a global problem, and it is exactely the problem sane Humanity is trying to cope with.
Now, about Christianity and Christians they do not hate – at the opposite of what Islamic/Islamist people do – other Religions and Believes, and spiritual Traditions. At the opposite, Christians take their Time to learn about others, they love Others, they appreciate Others. This is what tricks them when it comes to Islam: they rely on the sugar-cover which states “Religion” “of Peace” and they rely on their Feeling of “Love Others”, therefore they support Islam, Islamic/Islamist people, and they love it and them, too.
About Muhammad being the Anti-Christ it is a simple consideration based on what Jesus-The-Christ said and did, and what Muhammad said and did. The former is the opposite (Anti-) of the latter: that’s all.
I invite you (I think it is useless since you look very indoctrinated and brainblocked) to analyze things by yourself, relying on your Intelligence (you certainly have one) and your Reasoning (you certainly are able of).
About Church’s Crimes, no one denies that Middle Age has been a Hell: therefore no one wants it coming back. A part of Islamic/Islamist people – Islamic/Islamist people are so proud to criticize Others about their Past, but do not spend a single second criticizing their own (and even worst) Past. Others, on the other hand, up to now criticized their own Past and did not focus on Islamic/Islamist Past, therefore they never criticized it. Now informations about Islamic/Islamist Past (and Present!) are arising, and people have to face a new very criticizable Reality: the Islamic/Islamist one.
Of course Islamic/Islamist people try to forbid this by every means (every means, very Middle Aged means, too), silencing them (Critics and Reformers of Islam), but this becomes more and more difficult, because Truth is brightly arising and no one can stop it. The more want to know the Truth, the more Truth will be revealed to them.
I think Wafa Sultan said something very interesting about the Islamic/Islamist attitude, which is useful to undertand their (your) denyial attitude: within Islam they (you) don’t learn to ask “sorry”. This is very true – both at private and a public Level.
[Even if you try to portray Others - like me - as Others' haters, I repeat people like me criticize Islam,
and state that muhammedan Islam is like hitlerian Nazism, or stalinist/maoist Communism, anyway a Totalitarian and dictatorial sadist Ideology
- and/because everywhere it reverals itself to be what I just noted.]
Do you accept node posts? I would love to write couple articles here.