Now, they have all been thrown under the bus. I wonder what, if anything, they will do about this.
This is a far-reaching restriction on abortion that goes further than a “codification of the Hyde Amendment,” which cut federal funding for abortion long, long ago.
As NARAL Pro-Choice America points out, “The Stupak-Pitts amendment makes it virtually impossible for private insurance companies that participate in the new system to offer abortion coverage to women. This would have the effect of denying women the right to use their own personal private funds to purchase an insurance plan with abortion coverage in the new health system — a radical departure from the status quo. Presently, more than 85 percent of private-insurance plans cover abortion services.”
Obama himself mainly…sidesteps the issue, stays above the fray, be it in Teheran or in Congress. Banter, even soaring teleprompted eloquence, is not the same as actual leadership.
Remember: These newly jettisoned feminists rejected Hillary Clinton (yes, feminists have rejected female candidates other than Sarah Palin), and clambered aboard the cool, charismatic, could-be-a-movie-star-or-an-athlete’s bus. True, the candidate was really also half-white: raised by his white mother and white grandparents, abandoned by his black African father. But, in American terms, Obama was, essentially, a “race” man, someone who certainly looked like an African-American, and someone who wrestled with questions of black male identity. President Obama has not written about his bi-racial identity or about the lives of black women very much or with the same passion.
They fell for a guy—true, a charming, eloquent and very handsome guy, whom they wanted to believe really loved them for their….political views. Not just for their votes.
They fell for a guy who may have reminded them of their youth on the Left, when the (murderous, sexist) Black Panthers were all the rage.
Let me be clear: Some feminists remained squarely in Hillary’s camp. Clinton was the first viable female candidate for the American Presidency that America has ever had. They did not vote for Obama. No, I did not “like” Hillary, but yes, I certainly voted for her in the Democratic primary. Unlike Obama, she actually had a track record on women’s issues.
Yes, there are more than 2,000 names on this petition. They include actors (Kathleen Chalfant and Susan Sarandon), novelists (Mary Gordon, Meredith Tax), poets, academics, politicians (Ronnie Eldridge), journalists, psychotherapists, activists. Many are very honorable women with whom I strongly disagree. Some are craven opportunists and hypocrites. Some are merely sheep.
But the feminists who signed the pro-Obama petition are mainly leftists. This means that they are often more concerned with the rights of (male) people of color; less concerned with the rights of women (of any color); more concerned with Christian and Jewish misogyny than with what I view as a far more dangerous Islamic misogyny; quick to criticize western imperialism and colonialism, yet utterly silent on the Islamic version; and devoted to principles of anti-racism (except where Jews are concerned).
Long ago, to avoid being labeled “racists,” such left feminists deserted their own vision of universalist human rights and became cultural relativists.
Well, Obama’s and Pelosi’s health care bill has, so far, been passed in the House. Federal funding for abortion (except in cases of rape and incest) has been deemed not as important as the right of the poorest (male) person to receive various sub-quality health care treatments and benefits.
So: I challenge these left feminists to do something about this. I challenge my old friend Gloria Steinem to pick up the phone and call the White House. NOW’s old national President, Kim Gandy, was a frequent White House visitor. How about it, Kim? I know that the new National Organization of Women is already planning rallies.
But my question is: What will the prominent left feminist signatories really do about this?
Break with the Democratic Party? Form a third party? Work with the Republican Party? Apply for asylum in Saudi Arabia?
Well, girls and boys, these are some of our choices.
Brief Afterword
To be fair, I have been told that the Senate has to reconcile its version of the bill with the House version. Even now, as you read this, there are 40 Congresspeople who have signed a letter drafted by Congresswoman Diana Degette (D-Colorado) who now say they will not vote for the final version of this Health Care Reform Bill/Conference Report/Amendment (no on knows exactly what to call it) if abortion remains un-funded or underfunded.
Right on, Phyllis. Maybe now they’ll wake up and see they’ve been conned. I’m a feminist and I voted for Hillary. Didn’t like Obama from the start. I have to say, though, that saying “I told you so” turns to ashes in my mouth now that it’s too late. I hope there will be a huge resurgence in feminist activism as a result of this betrayal.
Umm, Phyllis, is this observation as old as the hills: People go through various stages of life,
and the initial stages take place before birth.
For each person reading this was at the stage of
life where all that was there was a collection of cells.
Agent Zero saw he could not win that fight, so
old allies were deemed to be expendable.
Way to go Phyllis, That is what they get for voting the party line! if that is what a feminist looks like then they got what they asked for! Don’t blame me- I did not vote for him!
I don’t know what prominent left feminist signatories will do, but two of the choices you mention, working with the Republican Party and going to Saudi Arabia, are identical as far as the issue of abortion insurance is concerned.
Odd to see pro-choice on a wingnut website. Well if there were more abortions we would have less social strife. Need to fund testing for the gene Monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), sometimes called the “warrior gene.” That would filter out many of the warmongering repub scum. A cross-reference of sex criminal parents and gene test for narcissism and borderline personality disorder would eliminate most wingnuts. A predisposition test for dualistic religion and authority worship would eliminate most future fascists.
Ten months into 48 and the Reality Movie has just begun. Hopefully the light switch stays on and those that voted for what they thought was an answer
to what they hated during the past 8 years, will use the light to read about the characters & past performance of those running before voting in 2010.
Well, maybe somebody will now figure out that Obama and all his crowd are what Robert Heinlein called “reform politicians”.
That is one who won’t stay bought because he can’t stay bought. There is always some
absolutely compelling reason he has to turn on you three times before breakfast.
BTW ladies: that Stupak Amendment is NOT a pro-life amendment. It is a control freak amendment put there for the purpose of helping destroy the right of contract between the individual and her (or his) insurer. There are more like it in that monstrosity of a bill, rest assured. Now you are warned.
Surely you jest. Is it a revelation to you that the Modern Feminist movement was just another Marxist Front Group? From their literature in the 60′s all through the succeeding decades they have stressed their cultural revolutionary roots. They are the collective face of Antonio Gramsci in drag so when they seemly do something which is a volte face of their “deeply held beliefs” (propaganda) it is only in service to the furtherance of the Marxist narrative. I long ago wrote them off for what they are: a large group of phonies with a hideous agenda tarted up for mass appeal.
That’s the fun with a public insurance: it’s equal for everyone. Either everyone pays for abortion or none.
And the beauty of private choice is just that: the choice to pay for an eventual abortion.
Socialism is one-size-fits-all; whish you a good time discussing the meter
There will be a million pampered bureaucrats deciding everything about health care, so why not the who, what, when, and where of abortion? Apparently, an authoritarian state is OK as long as it forces its people to pay for abortions. Talk about losing your way!
I am staunchly anti-abortion. The feminist insiders are pretty well taking it for granted that a federal judge will save the day. America’s politicians can do whatever they so desire—but at the end of the day our leftist dominated court system will have the final say. One can only hope that big name feminists decide to confront the Obama administration on this issue. It will be the final nail in the coffin of any ineffective and too costly national healthcare proposal.
Maybe they should realize that if the government is in charge of health care, they no longer have a choice.
It goes way beyond abortion.
Serves them right. They voted for an empty suit.
What is this hard left drivel doing on Pajamas Media?
Sadly, I think we will be the ones thrown under the bus. They will pretend that our tax dollars will not pay for abortions, but when the government takes over healthcare, they will have someone deep in the bowels of HHS add it back.
That government run healthcare puts medical decisions in the hands of politicians and their various special interests should not come as a shock. If these policies are enacted and government (and necessarily politicians and bureaucrats) take control of all medical payments, our very personal health choices will taken away and left to whoever is in power and paying into their coffers. And it will be far worse than any private healthcare establishment because there will be no alternative. This is only the first of many nasty, tragic lessons from what government run healthcare actually looks like in practice. It should be a big wake up call for those ardent supporters of Obamacare.
Mr. Barry H. Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama gave people plenty of frightening indications of who and what he was for, namely himself.
Anyone still fool enough to still believe Barack is going to keep any of his faux promises is living in an altered reality. I suggest for those poor saps that they make themselves an appointment for some cult deprogramming sessions.
As far as abortion and women’s sexual reproductive rights go. . . there has got to be a saner, more humane solution.
Phyllis,
Relax, you have nothing to worry about. Amendments can be repealed, changed, etc. The important battle was getting the nose of the camel under the tent. It wont be long before the rest of the camel is inside. After all, nothing warms the heart of a true blue liberal like stabbing a partially born baby in the back of HER* head and sucking HER* brains out.
*Male babies are generally too valuable, especially in China.
But, you’re a feminist, right? Why should you worry about baby girls?
I thought Gloria Steinem moved to Tehran to help solve their problems.
Number one, I pray daily that this horrid piece of so-called legislation never, ever sees the light of day. It is unconstitutional and unconscienable. Anyone capable of any serious thought would see that everything the government has its hands in is doomed to fail. This is at its best a gargantuan power grab and these people will not be happy until they have intruded into every single aspect of every single person’s life.
Number two and most important, all life is sacred from the womb to the tomb. If we cannot and are not willing to protect the most innocent and vulnerable among us, then I guess we deserve whatever we get. And may God have mercy on our souls.
The talk is going around that the restrictions on abortion will be stripped out in the conference committee, if indeed the bill or something like it passes the Senate. If so then the conundrum will be can the revised bill pass the House again.
You sound really concerned.
The feminist movement long ago jettisoned their ideals, as evidenced when they supported Bill Clinton in Monicagate, even to the extent that Gloria Steinem said men are “allowed one free grope” (???). They went after Bob Packwood and Clarence Thomas for far less. The “movement” is now basically a rubber stamp for statism.
Time for Ms to do another “This is what a feminist looks like” cover, right after they do their nails. I hope NARAL and all the other organizations that supported this pig are happy to see their own faces under the bus. How stupid do you have to be to believe in a man who showed countless signs of misogyny and downright Piggism throughout the primaries and the campaign?
Truly, Phyllis, everything you worked for and dedicated yourself to in the past is being destroyed before our very eyes. And one day these silly Fake Feminists will wake up and have to start all over again. Then they will realize that two political parties have been seized by extremists and both sides hate them. They will be on their own and considering they have now officially been declared more than fifty percent of the population, they can just haul all that water all over again. There will be plenty of broken fingernails amongst this crowd of giddy flirty women who were too excited and dreaming about spawning for The One to notice that calling a reporter “Honey,” discussing the vibrating cell phone in your pants with the woman next to you, and playing “99 Problems But A Bitch Ain’t One Of Them” at a rally does not a feminist make.
NOW, NARAL, Ms Magazine, the whole lot of them, are reaping the mess they sowed. The rest of us were smart enough to know that this man hates women. Now they can eat their cake because this guy isn’t down subjugating them yet. Not by a long shot.
I think it’s a bit premature to be high-fiving anyone over this.
Do you really believe that the House, with staunch pro-abortion Democrats in every committee and leadership position, really meant that this will be in the final bill that Obama signs? It’s got a whole bunch of processes to go through yet, where hundreds of amendments will be offered, and a reconciliation process that will go on behind closed doors with no pro-life congress members present.
I think that this was done simply to get that 2-vote win to pass something quickly. I would not even doubt that key pro-abortion organizations like NARAL and others aren’t in on this charade. They’ve probably been told to make lots of faux noise about this until the pro-life people seem mollified, and that it will all be fixed down the road.
Even it gets all the way to Obama’s signature, there are an infinite number of ways and opportunities that congress, the administration, the myriad regulatory bodies that this monstrosity of a bill creates or are already in existence, and a compliant judiciary at all levels, can make it go away. And they will.
Leftists NEVER give an inch unless they think it will get them a mile down the road. They NEVER quit until they get what they want, either, and they won’t this time. Be very vigilant.
As a union boss once famously said “Negotiation is a give and take process. You give, and we take.”
That’s why, if you look back down through the history of the last century, not only here but pretty much everywhere, the rachet only turns one way – towards the Collective.
I’m very sad Ms. Chesler. I’ve been reading you for a while, and you really had me fooled.
Your compassion for women appears to apply once they’ve passed the “right to privacy” and the “right to control my body” screens, survived a couple hours in the laundry room lint screen; or, as we say here in Canada, passed out of the birth canal and breathed, notwithstanding whether the umbilicus has been cut — thereby attaining the legal status of a human being.
Me, me, me, me, me. In a truly honest society they simply wait ’til baby is born, since it’s safer generally than pressing down really hard on the belly to induce abortion. Then the resulting tissue is simply left on the trail for the hyenas and the dingoes. They just slow everyone down. Same thing for the sick, the old, the decrepit: the “last leggers”.
And you are going to save the west from Islam and other uncivilized deceivers?
Thanks. You can keep your integrity.
You want rights? Really? Just how badly?
Try finding a Rosa Parks who will throw her baby under the bus while CNN is watching.
How does it feel to wake up one day and realize that our government leaders and feminist movement signatories are nothing but a bunch of old hippies?
From what I have noticed the Feminist Movement has no more power than a bowel cleanser.
The only thing they now protest is the size of their royalty checks and Obamas teleprompter speeches.
8. ExPat:
Serves them right. They voted for an empty suit.
hardly an empty suit …more like full of sh!t.
I am no fan of abortion, because along with the trend towards Western men and women marrying at very late ages or not at all, single “designer child” families, and contraception, Western civilization is burying itself and all the progress it made. Moslems and other Third World groups reproduce like crazy, at really young ages in many cases, and sooner rather than later, the West and our Judeo Christian progressive societies will be overwhelmed numerically by backward, savage, misogynist, and impoverished Third World/Moslem societies and driven into extinction. Because in demographic terms, reproductive numbers matter and in terms of social survival, that really does mean the last man standing wins.
Ms. Chesler, Just to be clear, when you write “reproductive rights” you really mean “abortion” – correct?
Our President has never cared about feminists. Only a fool believes that. Hopefully, feminism can uncouple itself from the foul practice of infanticide. Yes, kill a few more babies feed them to Moloch in the name of ‘freedom’. Is there any idiocy greater than the self-hating Left? Who kills their own children except people who hate themselves?
To the crowd who promised us in ’73 that abortion would allow every child wanted, every child loved (how did that work out?), I am just wondering how long it will take people to recognize that being aborted is not “your” body?
There is this unique DNA thing, and in at least half the cases, the gender apparently is male…
“This would have the effect of denying women the right to use their own personal private funds to purchase…”
…but, I thought that now it was supposed to be admirable that the government intervene and force people to use their own private funds in ways the government wants it to…the government knows better than we do, and if one HAS funds it must be because one is a selfish, greedy bastard who extracted that wealth from the blood and bones of the less fortunate by employing them or investing in companies that do.
Oh, right…SOME groups are special, and deserve DIFFERENT treatment than the rest of us. I won’t be able to use my OWN private funds for products and services I feel best suit my needs, but I’m just a man; abortions are DIFFERENT.
Sorry, I’m still trying to figure out all the rules of the Left’s Orwellian backwards-land…
30. no Obama:
“From what I have noticed the Feminist Movement has no more power than a bowel cleanser.”
Right Wing Scat Alert – Right on Cue
“Odd to see pro-choice on a wingnut website. Well if there were more abortions we would have less social strife. Need to fund testing for the gene Monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), sometimes called the “warrior gene.” That would filter out many of the warmongering repub scum. A cross-reference of sex criminal parents and gene test for narcissism and borderline personality disorder would eliminate most wingnuts. A predisposition test for dualistic religion and authority worship would eliminate most future fascists.”
Even though this post immediately made me think “Orson Scott Card”, it saddens me that there are a lot of people who actually think that this sort of Unit 751-esque thought is anything but repugnant.
Obama’s record revealed Obama is for abortion for the full nine months of pregnancy and voted that babies who survive an abortion should be left to die (or helped to die?). As the law allows the violent, extremely painful death of an innocent, defenseless child, clearly no life will be safe in the future.
Our human rights are given to us by G-D, including vulnerable little humans in the womb – babies unable to beg for mercy, unable to escape their cruel, barbaric fate.
G-D is a forgiving G-D. Everyone needs G-D’s forgiveness.
To all the little babies whose lives were taken away from them – rest in peace little ones. You will never suffer ever again. You are safe now forever in heaven with a loving and merciful G-D.
And now kids! The number one song for the 46th week in a row … “The Wheels of Obamas Bus Thump-Thump-Thump”
We suspect that this song could top the charts for another 162 weeks!
But stay tuned, an uprising in the industry could change all of that.
Now sit back, relax, and enjoy!
Great piece. This part especially nails it: “But the feminists who signed the pro-Obama petition are mainly leftists. This means that they are often more concerned with the rights of (male) people of color; less concerned with the rights of women (of any color); more concerned with Christian and Jewish misogyny than with what I view as a far more dangerous Islamic misogyny; quick to criticize western imperialism and colonialism, yet utterly silent on the Islamic version; and devoted to principles of anti-racism (except where Jews are concerned).”
Many feminists feel they have no right to a movement centering women. Disappointing.
Dr. Chesler, I am so deeply moved by your clear vision of what the women’s rights movement I joined in the early 1970′s has become:
I am grateful for your insights and enjoy reading your work.
Oh — and my choice in 2008 was to break with the Democratic Party and become a Republican. There are totalitarians in both parties but the Republicans have the economic policies that are the foundation of liberty.
Where are the reproductive rights of the fathers? I would think that an abortion should not take place without the consent of the father–except in the cases of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.
Pro-choice is bad enough, but if these idiots succeed in getting government funding for abortion in a government controlled healthcare system, it becomes GOVERNMENT-CHOICE. That means that women will be forced to have abortions against their will if the DEATH PANEL decides it is in the best interest of the state to end an expensive complicated pregnancy. As long as the government is forbidden to fund abortion, they are also forbidden to mandate it.
Wasn’t Obama the one who wanted to allow abortion at 7th month pregnancy (I saw drawings about how it and it was something almost dishuman)?
About abortion I am sure that a woman self won’t go for it, but external circumstances drive her to go for that (unwished and unwishable) option, AND MEN ARE VERY MUCH PART OF THESE “CIRCUMSTANCES”, and the treatement the woman gets by her “environement”.
It is anyway very laughable the intervention of mister (?) Charle about Rosa Parks: are you meaning that black women (aren’t you racist?) are better than white ones? Are you meaning that black men (you racist?) treat their women better than white men do? Are you saying that black women get anyway better treated than white ones, therefore they easily carry on (all of) their pregnancies? Or are you saying that slaves (that is what Rosa Parks was at the time of 60s Revolution) are better “moms” than free women are (you male slavist?)?
No, I clearly tell you: black people (meaning Cultures from Afica …) AREN’T BETTER than our “white” (Western Cultures) people, at all! Women are not better treated by “blacks”, at all! “Whites” are not worst than “blacks”, at all! Dear Obamapologist, and therefore as hipocritical as Obama (Barack Hussein) is.
—
The true News about US Presidency was a woman (Hillary) being elected, not a “black” (not even 100% “black”) man being elected. Obama (Barack Hussein) is where it is, not because of his merits, but for the merits of people like Martin Luther Kind and Rosa Parks (a woman). The true challenge in US society was a woman being elected: but US electors missed this revolutionary opportunity.
And by choosing an Islamic liar, they also chose to let their Country sink in Middle Age, despite we are in XXI century, and we ALREADY overcame several important Revolutions.
Sorry Ms. Chesler but I have disagree with you here.
I don’t believe in abortion except in cases of rape, incest, risk to the mother’s life, and deformity/developmental disability. Abortion used as after the fact birth control is wrong, especially now in a society where birth control and the morning after pill are readily available.
I don’t feel abortion should be wholly illegal, but it should be restricted to the cases above and I don’t want my tax dollars going to pay for an abortion for someone who was too lazy to use birth control. Put the baby up for adoption, make arrangements before the child is born, there are plenty of people out there who are willing to adopt an infant.
If you wish to donate your money to Planned Parenthood or some other organization that performs abortions on demand then that is your choice and your right. However don’t take the fruits of my labor from me at what amounts to gun point and use them to fund abortions I believe are wrong. How would you feel if your tax dollars were given to those that perform female genital mutilation, aka “female circumcision”?
What gets me is that the left OUGHT to be opposed to abortion! The left used to pride itself on its concern for the underdog, the underprivileged, the helpless, those who could not fight for themselves. Who fits that category more than an unborn baby? They used to act like it mattered that abortion enables men to exploit women and that it is another way the poor and people of color are used and exploited. But now, killing a baby is seen as a right that no leftist can deny and remain on the left. pathetic.
“What is this hard left drivel doing on Pajamas Media?”
Maybe Phyllis isn’t a blind sheep. Like you.
Maybe she likes to think for herself instead of a party doing it for her. That’s the problem with both of these useless parties. They want sheep. And that is why the number of Independents will soon outnumber both of them. I’m proud to say I tried both of your parties and they have both been hijacked. Independent thought from “strayers” that wavers from The Program is not welcome. No thanks.
Two thoughts:
1. I’m glad to see that no one I know (especially no one in my family) signed that petition, and
2. How many Jewish names appear on it. I didn’t count them, but I’d guess that at least 1/3 of the signatories are Jews, and that’s on the conservative side.
I hate to have to admit that so many of my co-religionists are such pure-D fools, but so it appears is the case.
Does no one in the “pro- choice” camp on the left see the profound dissonance here?
“I have the right to control what happens to my own body!No one can tell me what I can and can’t do with my body and my ‘health’!” That’s the constant cry. Yet somehow there’s noconflict between that and government controlled health care, which could give government the power to deny available care, dictate your choices and treatment, and tell you when it’s time to just “take a pain pill” and die? It always puzzles me that so many who advocate “choice” when it comes to abortion are fine with the idea of government being given more authority to control our bodies and health care choices.
“As long as the government is forbidden to fund abortion, they are also forbidden to mandate it.” (#45) Yes, yes. A good point to keep in mind, especially given some of the eugenics-tainted rhetoric that flies around on the left.
Too bad, Phyllis. Even when you don’t write about Israel you seem to attract the crazies to your website. What happened to your rational, reasonable and objective readership? You deserve better.
6. Leftist genocide alert!!! Komrade K advocates the same genocidal policies as his progenitors. Let the advocates of genocide be the first to die by the their hand.
@ #17 – you’re reading things in the article that aren’t written. pointing out that the extreme pro-abortioners should be either outraged at Obama to keep their beliefs consistent or be rightfully labeled hypocrites if they apply a different standard than they would to Republicans doesn’t mean the author is saying abortions should have been included in the bill.
45. May B Wright:
Great Comment!
And if the Nanny State needs more men for sending off to war-
YOU WILL NOT ABORT THIS DNA MALE APPROVED CHILD UNDER PENALTY OF PRISON…
we will pay all his bills and train him.
Hitler just called from hell,
and he loves it.
The amazing thing about this whole debacle is how easily the people so completely fell in love with this guy. He was the perfect candidate, unfortunately the Kool aide guzzlers somehow thought he would be the perfect President as well. Everyone gave Obama a free ride, the Media, the majority of the voters, My grandmother used to warn me about too much change. Her mantra was the devil you know is always preferrable to the one you don’t know. Once again she was right. Thequestion now is can we hold him at bay until the balance in the legislature can be tilted in a more favorable position to stop his socialistic tendencies.
With all due respect, Ms Chesler, “reproductive rights” do not equal “abortion” Does this bill (which I do not support) restrict access to birth control pills, condoms, morning after pills, sex education? No? It doesn’t even restrict abortion, sadly. Why do feminists think women are too stupid to understand where babies come from? Women are perfectly capable of comprehending how babies are made, and how to prevent making them while still doing whatever they want. If they get pregnant, it is due to their own actions (except in cases of rape obviously) and can face the consequences. Those innocent babies can be given up for adoption, there is a LONG waiting list to adobt babies.
To Kochevnik: Using genetics to weed out and medically eliminate people who believe differently than you and your ilk? Sounds like medical genocide to achieve some kind of ideological utopia. Isn’t that fascist?
To Interested Observer: As a conservative who is not pro choice, let me share some insight. Phyllis Chesler is one of the reasons I keep reading PajamasMedia. If you are new (or unaware as a few commenters above seem to be) let me explain that PM permits and posts intelligent articles penned by authors of many stripes, articles that add nuanace and value to the discussion. I personally do not agree with Ms. Chesler on many points (on some few I staunchly disagree), but as a writer she has earned my respect. Since I first discovered her here (she’s been writing for decades, I should have found her sooner) I always click on her posts. She is what she is, an intelligent, courageous champion of Israel and of women everywhere. And she is also not a sellout. That is what we like about Phyllis. She says what she thinks and pulls no punches. While feminism has shifted and morphed with the political winds and whims, Phyllis remains true to her principals. I may not agree with all of them. Yet I respect her integrity and unwillingness to quit. She is a formidable, outspoken woman of courage. As long as we keep talking and working toward what is right and good, I want her part of that discussion. Kudos to PM for having the intelligence (and the intestinal fortitude) to give Phyllis a platform and voice in their media. Drivel exists, no question. Hard left drivel. Left drivel. Center drivel. Etc. It is the inclusion of Phyllis and writers like her that may keep this site from becoming hard right, right, or center right drivel. May we please passionately seek and defend our rights and principals without speaking pejoratively about each other.
Chesler is just an old-fashioned feminist; another aging hippie. Her railing against Islam were always motivated by her feminism. It’s why I can hardly get through her writings. It just keeps ringing shrilly throughout her writings. (Yes, I used the word “shrill”. That’s what this article is, a shrill screed.)
The thing is, these women are still functioning on old, outdated data. Illegal abortions were ugly and very dangerous back in the day. They were “necessary”, because of the social customs and mores of the time. Being an unwed mother was shameful. There was no support. Women weren’t as free to work and make a fair living. The list drones on.
As one commenter pointed out, women have so many better options today, that there is no need for the birth-control of last resort. Wpmen need to decide amongst themselves that abortion isn’t really necessary anymore. They need to educate other women of the steps that need to be taken to prevent unwanted pregnancies. They need to say that abortion is more than regrettable, but that it is wrong.
Change women’s approach to the whole issue of pregnancies. Once they decide to shun abortion, then they will take the necessary steps. As long as abortions are cheap and easy, they will continue to be lazy about contraception and such things.
Oh, and it is ridiculous to blame Obama for this. If there ever was someone who was pro-abortion, he’s your guy. This was Pelosi’s doing. Oh, what? You say Pelosi’s a pro-abortion woman? Oh, then it must be Obama’s fault. And I can’t even stand the guy. Quit making me defend his sorry ass.
I swear, it is time for the Aging Hippie crowd to just go away. Was there ever a more useless slice of a generation? I couldn’t even stand them when I was a kid in the 60′s.
Obama is never loyal to anyone but himself. America needs him like a fish needs a bicycle (I think I heard someone say something like that once).
Awesome, Phyllis, just awesome. Another slam-dunk.
People, we all know that Phyllis Chesler is not a superficial advocate for women’s Rights, and that she certainly cares about children too. Not just she is a psychologist and a professor, but she even took the disturb and the time to write books, whose titles and contents have to be found on her site. Not to be undervalued in considering her point of view on abortion: this is certainly not an unreasoned one.
Then: let’s don’t fool ourselves. Who is still the main (and maybe only) practically responsible person for the kids? The woman my dears. She feels her kid in her womb, she cares of him/her from the very beginning, then she will love him/her psychologically and she will practically take care of him/her and taking full responsibility for him/her.
Who should therefore choose if it is the case to give birth to a creature, a human being, which will be a baby and then an adult human being, with a whole life in front of him/her, in the World we live in.
Let’s don’t see a birth just under its fabolous aspect: it is an enormous responsibility to give actually birth to a baby, to a human being.
It must be very well weighted, and I agree with those who say that abortion is certainly not the first choice, but in many cases there is most probably not another choice (and there was practically and most probably no way to avoid pregnancy).
Thinking about honor killings: think of those who give birth to so many kids, and eventually “honor” murder several of them. Better it was their mother not to give them birth, instead of introducing them to a such brutal (not casual …) fate like being “honor” murdered.
Lives’ inflaction causes a life’s lost of value: better few kids but with a decent life granted, and a Quality’s life granted. Forced abortion is of course a cruelty of enormous dishumanity – which doesn’t cause the end of pregnancy only, but the lost of the woman’s psychological health too.
Deep Sensitivity – heart – (but even a Sense of Reality – mind -) is required …. [I think I warmly disagree with so called "Freedom of Choice" where the baby is "expurgated" at 8th or 9th month, by sucking his/her brain out: I find this horrible.]
WE NEED SENTIMENTAL EDUCATION TOGETHER WITH SEXUAL ONE, AND ABOUT “TAKING RESPONSIBILITIES”: FOR BOTH FEMALES AND MALES (!!!).
What would happen to the number of abortions performed annually if the federal government stopped subsidizing poverty and the production of children by poor women? Consider, the federal government has countless programs and handouts for poor children; SCHIP, Medicaid, free breakfast and lunch programs, free vaccinations, food stamps, welfare, free child care for poor working mothers, etc. etc.
The federal government doesn’t discourage the poor from having children, rather poor women know that if they get pregnant that the government sugar daddy will be there to “help” them.
So how does Uncle Sugar Daddy attempt to correct the fact that poverty is subsidized? By trying to subsidize abortions under the guide of “reproductive rights”.
Want to reduce poverty, the number of children born into poverty, and the number of abortions? STOP SUBSIDIZING POVERTY!
Everyone and I mean everyone knows that most abortions are used as birth control for the irresponsible.
Why do Leftists demand that we pay for the “right” to abort the mistakes of irresponsible strangers?
“Right Wing Scat Alert – Right on Cue”
The alert is on automatic. We can always smell your approach.
“I swear, it is time for the Aging Hippie crowd to just go away. Was there ever a more useless slice of a generation? I couldn’t even stand them when I was a kid in the 60’s.”
I concur. The constant barrage of -isms provided by that generation wears thin quickly.
Hate movements like feminism and white power-ism need to go the way of the dinosaur, and soon(hopefully along with the politicians who support these hate blocs).
58. Globule:
>Using genetics to weed out and medically eliminate
>people who believe differently than you and your
>ilk? Sounds like medical genocide to achieve some
>kind of ideological utopia. Isn’t that fascist?
More an emergency measure. Our species is characterized by domestication. We domesticate our pets, our livestock our plants and most poignantly, ourselves. However with greater responsibilities comes the greatest selection pressure for man. The feral genes of the species most urgently must be eliminated from the gene pool if the species is to have any future. The two most expedient means are fetal testing and war. War is a natural magnet for feral people and a war of sufficient magnitude will quickly alter the gene pool. Of course a quality program would favor selective breeding paralleling the domestication of other species.
Religious believers pose a special threat as they fail the stringent responsibility of verifiable knowledge, and can be molded by any authority. Going forward genes prone to borderline personality disorder and dualism must be removed, as people incapable of integrating the two brain hemispheres are a threat to society and themselves. Allowances should be made for molested children, who will suffer multiple personalities and mind control vulnerability purely by environmental factors.
After domestication churches will server no purpose and will be taxed as any business. The ill-gotten gains of the Vatican treasure banked by Rothschilds will be seized and 60% of the gold on Earth returned to the public. This will eliminate personal debts and provide every person on earth an endowment. Usury will be banned as only hard currency backed with consideration like gold will be legal, and fiat currency eliminated. Policing usury on Earth was the main military objective of the USA in the last century.
ITF: I’m not sure I understood your intervention, but I reward it as extremely superficial and – let me add this – silly? Are you saying Phyllis Chesler is a Right wingist, and reasoningless person?
At the opposite, she is an educated human Being and woman (above all about subjects regarding women), and her articles and intervention are absolutely reasoned and definitely not automatic. I would rather say that you show automaticness in your very polarized judgement. Phyllis Chesler reasons in a far more balanced way than you appearently did.
Eventually: does your superficiality belong to a special “wing”? If so, let me know which one, in order me to avoid it.
[Recently in Italy a girl has been raped by a gang of 8, of a little town. The media reported the fact, because the "Justice" of that town did not really punished the "boys". Most of the population was actually supporting them, and blaming the girl. How's that, in XXI century, in the West? Well, a girl of the town - dressed in a modern way - "enlightened" me/us: she claimed that the 8 were condemend for "political reasons" only, and therefore they had to be considered innocent. On the other hand, the girl - belonging to the wrong political wing? - had to be harshly blamed. Eventually I/we got to know that the girl who said the "boys" had to be considered innocent, and most of the town, were/are Communists, and that THE VICTIM of rape wasn't a Communist. (...)
Therefore I ask you: do you, people like you and the girl politically protecting Communist (Leftist) rapists, agree or disagree with people according to "Wingism" (or allegedly "Wingism") or according to facts, Sense of Good and Justice, and - why not ... - the use of Intelligence? (...)
Same goes for Paedophilia according self-proclaimed "Obamanists": they allegedly criticize it, but when it comes to talk about one of the main mentors of Obama, a well-known paedophile, they immediately support it and start defaming and insulting those who point their finger against the Paedophilia of that "man", too. (...)]
Another – which I will now consider as typical – “Left Wing” reaction:
Situation: Charity association which helps a town in AFRICA. The Chef of the village (a black skinned African) regularly sexually abuses of a little girl, making her pregnant 3 times, but no one knows who’s the father of the kids. The Chef of the village says a boy regularly entered the village, raped the little girl then escaped away, and he could not catch him yet. Eventually everyone gets to know the truth.
Western “Left Wing” charitable reaction? “Oh, leave him alone! The poor BLACK, AFRICAN!” (my question is: what about the victim, the girl? Who had to experience the sexual abuses and then the shame/humiliation related to “her Chef’s” lies – about the “flying boy” entering the village and then escaping -).
Not finished yet. The same Chef got financial aids in order to build a school for children and free clothes to give them. Instead of building the school the Chef took the money for himself, and instead of distributing clothes for free, made the (very poor) families of the kids paying for them! Eventually, the tricks got discovered.
“Left Wing” charitable reaction? “Oh poor BLACK, AFRICAN! Leave him alone, the poor. Don’t report him to police. He is black. He is African. He therefore has to be understood (no way a black African person can be guilty …)”. (My question is: and who helps the victims? Aren’t they black and African enough? …). Not finished: the funding there goes on (don’t you want to deny financial aid to a – honest or dishonest doesn’t matter – BLACK, AFRICAN person, do you?).
This is the “Left Wingism”. As Pat Condell said: “I was voting Left. After it betraied me and my/its ideals (of Good and Justice), I’m not voting Left anymore”. (…)
This just goes to show the foolishness (if not hypocrisy or willful blindness) of the ‘keep your laws off my body’ set going for one-size-fits-all govt-run healthcare [which BTW does not need the red herring 'public option' to be immensely intrusive and destructive].
Taxpayer funded abortion is possibly the other ‘third rail’ of American politics.
The embrace of a govt takeover of healthcare also reveals the libertarian-sounding ‘pro-choice’ motive for the sham it mostly is: For abortion-loving liberals the individual freedom they claim to want is *not* liberty, but rather ‘freedom without responsibility’.
Since we do live in the real world, the only way to pay for irresponsiilty is to take form those who were in fact responsible, hence the liberals’ schizophrenic beliefs in both personal freedom AND economic collectivism of some form.
Here are a few simple middle of the road changes that would make 50% of the opposition (in law) to abortion dissappear overnight:
1)Reaffirm no taxpayer funding, ever (those who donate $$ to advocate govt $$ should just donat to private assistance funds if they want)
2)No abortions for minors w/o parental consent, withcourt order only for truly special cases (of which “but I’ll get in trouble with my parents” is *not* one).
3) No partial birth abortions, no non-medical necessity abortions after first trimester or so (do early diagnostics!) Granted there are some special cases like anencephaly and ‘acardiac monsters’ where it would be cruel to force the mother to carry to term something which could *not* possibly survive.
4)*Married* fathers must be notified of an abortion — not consent, just notice. Hell, a husband has to get his wife’s de facto permission just to get a *vasectomy*.
5) A minimal waiting period when non-medical — 72 hours? (waiting periods for handguns are common and that right *is* explicitly in the COnstitution) — and mandatory information on basic prenatal development and adoption (things you *don’t get on the Planned Parenthhd website although they pretend to not be pro-abortion per se).
I’m a pro life feminist and I applaud the ammendment. I don’t see how other feminists don’t care that at least half of the babies being killed are female. Where is their loyalty to those sisters? In some ethnic groups here in the U.S., there is gender selective abortion becoming quite popular. Guess which gender they are targeting for elimination? Women! Abortion gives preference to a woman’s comfort and life style over another woman’s life. That’s not feminist. That’s just wrong.
Newsscaper,
I don’t know what your politcal affiliation is, you have summed my beliefs about abortion up in a nutshell, although I do worry about what will happen to women who are in abusive relationships if their husbands find out that they are seeking termination of a pregnancy. For the record, I am social liberal with conservative leanings on economics and national security. I’m pretty conflicted.
I tend to believe that most Americans have sensible beliefs about abortion rights and we need to find a sensible compromise through dialogue. Will we all be happy? No. But we need to figure out a way to find common ground.
Phyllis, it’s a good thing for you guys that Obama is nothing but a corporate hack with a pretty mouth. If he had the courage of his convictions (or possibly, convictions) he’d be telling G*D’S Own Settler State where to get off and running the insurance racket out of town. Talk about cognitive dissonance!
I had to wallow though this essay twice to find what she was talking about, and normally I don’t, she usually gets right to the point. The Stupek Amendment! That wasn’t throwing “feminists” under the bus. It was a trick to pass a bill. It will be removed. The Democratic Party will remain the Baby Killer Party in the future, perhaps as long as the U.S.remains a nation. Phylllis, there is no such thing as “reproductive rights.” That nice term means the “right” to kill your baby. There is, however, the alternative: reproductive obligation. If you “do” sex and get pregnant, you have an obligation to God and your species to bear the child.
Thank you for your article, Ms. Chesler. Hillary was fighting for the rights of women long before it was fashionable — and these so called feminists threw her under the bus in favor of Mr. Cool even though we screamed from the highest hill that Obama did not care about women. The Ms. magazine cover was the biggest insult of all. That they now wish to complain, boycott funds for the DNC etc. is ridiculous. Women and the GLBT community, to name two groups, are merely notches on his bedpost now.
As with his reversal of FISA, when anyone complained last year, Obama said “I understand if this is a deal breaker, but where else are you gonna go.” As far as he and the DNC are concerned, they have you over a barrel. As long as women define their politics solely by pro-life/pro-choice, we will remain divided and not able to effect change on many other issues important to women. I am more concerned with equal pay for equal work (women still earn 77 cents on the dollars) and an end to violence against women.
“Feminists” had a very qualified candidate and dumped her for a brand. How’s that working out?
Near as I can tell, it would be a whole lot easier to exterminate the so-called ubermensch that Komrade K believes he is than those of us who actually do good for society. Fortunately for him, we wouldn’t do that except as an act of war were his kind to engage in open rebellion. Komrade K, we out reproduce you, and you are a fool to believe the world will be better off without us. You will get to see a world without Christians when the Rapture occurs, and it will be Hell on Earth. Unrestrained evil and wholesale slaughter. Repent now, or rot in Hell. It would be poetic justice for you to be killed by one of your fellow so-called ubermensch.
Well, too bad I don’t actually scan yet all the articles, or I would have probably had something to say here. I would hope it would be clear for most, but just to be clear for any of my friends, again:
I don’t think the word ‘abortion’ should appear in any federal legislation, unless it’s an amendment, let alone a government provided service. The whole idea of insuring an abortion, not to mention having one, is reprehensible, as they both assume the deprivation of life. And even if it was allowed in a state, we should never allow it to be viewed as a ‘manageable’ risk.
Not only should abortion not occur, more importantly, it should never be remotely permitted to be expected to occur.
Sorry, I need I new laptop… dreadfully slow. I would hope my feelings would come through my words, of course again, I really am no writer of anything before. I would just like to see the country free from this irreversible path to bankruptcy, and hopefully get some sense. While I would defend my country as the next man, I have zero desire for any subversion whatsoever. And I have no desire to relinquish my anonymous status for the foreseeable future.
Thanks for the defense. These guys are nasty huh. You can probably guess what I’m dealing with here…
Oh and be patient with me. I don’t really ‘browse’ that much, don’t read every post yet. I’ll try. But I’ve also got this thesis thing I am supposed to finish, and somebody to talk to for first time in a week. Haven’t been able to tear myself away yet though. But I know I have not seen half of whats there yet.
I of course was not ecstatic about said post. Probably drowsy as I always have a potty mouth and bad spelling, so I might expect not all to be forum-related acceptable.
ps. The laptop thing .. was cause it really is slow. Sorry to imply.
Ani? this is not true.
ques: do we have abortion ins now? It is somewhat new to me. And it this moment I’m not hot on the idea. I also would prefer eventually if abortions were a infrequent occurence.
if this is place to chat
But I will stand up for the right of women’s choice, if pressed to the wall. Just havent narrowed the reasoning, im new. and its not a no-brainer.
78@myth buster:
Did your imaginary superfriend in the sky tell you that? It seems your handle is a misnomer.
Comrade K is an ubermensch? Gosharooties, who’da thunk! (And I’m the Queen of Outer Space!)
But—but—Comrade, if all us Neanderthals were gone, who’d take care of you?
As Mark Steyn once pointed out, the future belongs to those who actually show up for it.
Designer child families, and those who practice abortion, and birth control, aren’t leaving anything for the future.
#64 HellenoChristian – What self-contradictory, logic-less nonsense.
You dears don’t understand. “The woman feels her kid in her womb.” – Yeah, then she kills it.
“It’s an enormous responsibility.” – Yes, it is. It is one that men shoulder all the time. When a man gets married, he is accepting responsibility for a woman… AND any kids they produce.
“Abortion is not the first choice, but probably the only choice. – Pregnancy couldn’t have been avoided in many cases?” Not our fault! Not our fault! (Tantrum ensues.)
“Better few kids with better life quality. It is better that they never be born rather than….” – Really? So, go to any poor kid in a miserable household and tell him he shouldn’t have been born. Offer to kill him. I bet he disagrees. What constitutes a proper quality of life? Who decides? Should only the rich and privileged have kids, then? The poor shouldn’t breed?
You’re a filthy Eugenicist! And you have the nerve to call yourself a Christian. Go see your priest about this. Ask him. See what he says. Then, do some serious penance.
Jesus. I think I’m gonna be ill.
I am suprised in a good way by this post.
Writing about women’s reproductive rights in a conservative website requires courage, integrity and a good dose of thinking and acting in an indipendent way.
The author just show all these qualities and I applaud her.
It is also classy to report the books and writing to fellow feminists, a really good gesture. They could, let me say, they should, appreciate.
There are, unfortunately, very few pro-choice conservative people and I support them.
Let’s hope this amendment will not pass.
Phyllis, this summer you briefly wrote about a change in leadership in NOW and it seems you like their new leaders more than the previous ones.
NOW is also pushing for CEDAW without reservations and they stated they are (were?) at odds with other feminists because they insisted in having it ratified WITHOUT reservations.
Any future post/articles about it here or in other websites?
It’s a damn good thing none of these wing-nuts and other religious crazies have attached themselves to the gall bladder with the same zeal they claim to “feel” for the reproductive activities of women. Can you imagine the pain (and I mean PAIN!) if the idea that GOD created the gall bladder and therefore no man should remove it was a political cause like abortion is? Can someone please point out a single area of men’s body rights that has been restricted by government. No? Wonder why.