TO CAIR/OHIO:

Had sent the following messages, below, earlier. Another posting is in order because I am deeply concerned.

CAIR is a public entity concerned with educating the citizenry. Thought you would be interested in how this one citizen perceives your message.

I understand that you are handling the case against Rifqa Bary to live her life, within her family, as a Christian – without fear. Am i right or wrong?

I am a concerned American citizen. Concerned about the protection of this young woman’s constitutional First Amendment Rights. I am also concerned why, since 9/11, we have yet to hear from the Muslim community redarding an affirmation, unburdened by nuances, that, under the Constitution, an individual’s First Amendment Rights, regarding religion, trumps any presumed rights of any particular religious community. I say that as one who is securely rooted in his own religious community.

An individual’s religious beliefs should not be curtailed, or the person punished just because those beliefs are claimed by the person’s prior religious community as being “offensive” or “dishonoring”. That can only happen if the law, God forbid, should recognizes that the group has extra constitutional authority over the individual, and can exercise that claim over its members. That can be only if the law, itself, is subject to the religion that holds the bonded relationship the individual has to that religion, or the ancestral heritage he or she was born into. In the case of Rifqa Bary, Islam. As a nation, do not what to go down that road. Sweet Jesus, Savior, Son of God, protect us from that folly! Holy Mary, Mother of God, defend us in that battle!

Please CAIR/OHIO, since the mainstream media identifies CAIR as the primary advocate for the Muslim community, where is your affirmation regarding the Constitution? Where is your statement that the Constitution must be interpreted and applied without reference to Islam and Islamic Law?

Better yet, where is your joy when a young Muslim man or woman (entering the obligations of adulthood) questions, searches, and settles down to convictions and commitments they discovered on their own? Though at first it may be diffifult to bear, so what if those convictions of hers are contrary to family, clan, ancestral history, and her prior religious community. Again, so what! Though, I am quite able to acknowledge, when a young person walks out and away, that there may be a bit of sadness for the community, this should, in fact, be an occasion of great joy: for the one entering adulthood has not walked away from religion as such, but has found and accepted the way GOD HAS CHOSEN TO BRING HIM OR HER TO HIMSELF.

So, where is your joy for Rifqa Bary?

If Allah is truly compassionate and merciful one would think Allah himself would be rejoicing at Rifqa Bary’s exercise of liberty to embrace God’s invitation. He would be dancing a jig with Archangel Gabriel knowing Rifqa heard His invitation and gave herself to Him utterly. And, if that invitation comes through Jesus Christ her Savior? So, again, so what? It is no business of yours.

Rifqa Bary’s First Amendment rights is what is at stake in this case, in that Florida courtroom. This case, the story of her conversion and act of flight, could become a watershed moment in American constitutional history. Let it be, pray God may it be so.

So my prayer for you. May Allah give you the truest of compassion and mercy, which is witnessed only when you extend it to others. Be, for America, a testimony of that compassion by offering its hand to Rifqa Bary.

Thank you.

OPEN LETTER TO THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY REGARDING RIFQA BARY

Are you taking action to defend Rifqa Bary’s right to leave Islam?

It looks like not. If so, please inform the public.

In the case of Rifqa Bary there is only one fundamental question. Here, we state it in several ways – as variations, so to speak, on a foundational theme.

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, there should be no such protection, for either a minor or an adult? That any presumed claim that the religious community has over the individual trumps the thoughts and actions of the individual person? That the liberties of those thoughts and actions must be denied if they offend or contradict those of the religious or cultural community?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, the courts should decide against the individual person (and for the religious community) if that person’s thoughts, beliefs, or actions, contradict the community’s self-understanding?

Is this especially so in the case of one who (acting upon his or her constitutional rights) decides to leave the community? Should the courts compel that individual to reenter the community and adhere to its doctrines and behaviors? In deciding the fate of such an individual person (minor or adult), should the courts give preferential consideration to the community’s current or prior claim upon that individual’s thoughts and behaviors (based on the “privileged” concept that an individual’s fundamental identity is group/community based?

If the individual’s thoughts or actions give offense to that community’s self-understanding (especially those of the leave-taker), should the court compel the defendant to renounce those contradictory beliefs and conform to the community’s self-understanding?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand for her, that Rifqa Bary’s primary (if not only) identity is the religion handed to her by family, clan, ancestral history, or the wider Muslim community? If this notion is fundamentally foundational to who Rifqa Bary is, are you claiming that no court or state action (no other outside influence) has the legal or moral right to separate her from it; that she, herself, has no recourse or liberty to do so?

What’s to be drawn from all this?

Does this mean that Islam has a weak (if not non-existent) understanding of individual personal identity? In short, that the religion lacks a true philosophy of being.

If that is the case, it certainly, for me, answers some outstanding questions. For without such a philosophy (which has existed in the West since Aristotle, via Augustine, Aquinas, and beautifully crafted in the Anglo-American experience) law is orphaned to become whimsical, arbitrary, with nothing better to do than to tease the temptation of totalitarianism.

The West, no surprise, has its own sad history of disregarding that philosophy. It can ill afford the upheaval of integrating an alien self-understanding that cannot or will not yield to the tested wisdom of its civilizing philosophy.

Though she may not be able to articulate it, it is this hard-earned glory that Rifqa Bary is resting against, and trusting to shelter her.

Rifqa Bary, by the witness of her convictions – even through her act of flight – stands squarely upon the wisdom and protection of this tradition. Her sense of self is rooted within it. No family, no clan, no ancestral history, no community, has the legal or moral right to uproot this young lady.

So what is CAIR, and the Muslim community, doing to assist Rifqa Bary in staying put in the ground she has chosen (rooted and nurtured) so she can blossom into the beautiful woman of God’s heart’s desire?

_________________________________________________

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, why are you not defending this girl’s right to convert out of Islam?

Rifqa Bary is a most loved, particular friend of God. She carries, as we all do, His image within her which no man, no COMMUNITY, no STATE, no CLAN or FAMILY, can possess or rule. This image of God, which she expresses as her love and loyalty to Jesus Christ, is off limits to others; it cannot be enslaved to the rule and dictates of her family, the Islamic Community, or the State.

God found Rifqa Bary through his Son, Jesus Christ. In finding her God brought her to Himself. This is her deepest identity: not her family, not the Islamic Community. Standing before this the State, through its courts, must remain silent – except to affirm her constitutional right to find and practice matters of the heart and soul as she is called. That affirmation extends to protecting her from family or communities that seek to infringe upon that exercise.

Regarding mattes of religion, when weighing the issues involved in the conflict of religious communities and individual persons, the individual has the constitutional protection. (This is not skirting the pivotal truth that American society – including its Constitution – is founded on Judaic-Christian underpinnings. That is simply a discussion for another time.)

Related to this, the Constitution does not acknowledge any legal or moral notion that one is somehow “born” into a religion. Is the Muslim community in America seeking to change this fundamental constitutional understanding? Is the Muslim community under compulsion to do so anyway because such a notion is foundational to Islam itself? Does that explain the silence?

This is an important question. It goes to the heart of the Rifqa Bary case. Answer please. An informed debate with Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch would satisfy me.

So, what’s up? Why the silence? What’s wrong with coming to the aid of one who found Islam wanting and left it under threat to her life? Why the sitting on of hands? Why are you not bearing down on the powers that be in Ohio and Florida to do the right thing? Why are you not filling court briefs in support of Rifqa Bary’s emancipation?

I have followed these so-called apostasy cases in America and abroad since 9/11. All these years I have waited for that definitive Muslim voice to state firmly (without self-protecting deception) that Islam has no objection to any man, woman, or child, walking away from the religion; that ultimately Islam (as a society, as a political religion) cannot, should not, rule the hearts (or bodies) of men, which belong to God only.

The absence of that voice makes me wonder. Makes me wonder about much. Is the Muslim community seeking to change America’s constitution, making it an offense, under law, for an individual (minor or adult) to leave Islam? To make evangelizing Muslims illegal? I’ll state it that frankly. Maybe Islam in America is on that course. I don’t know; you tell me. All I know, something’s in the air. Hearing a few Methodists, a couple of Jesuits, and some J-Street Jews talk about not giving a damn – I am beginning to be righteously fearful.

Back to Rifqa.

In this particular apostasy case of Rifqa Bary’s (yes, that is what it is) why the damning silence?

Does the honor of any family clan or community of believers rank higher in the loves of God than this young lady? That is not the American way.

If so, than damn family honor. Damn the community, any community that requires for its self-identity the smashing of underfoot.

Come out, come out, from wherever you are. Stand up for the weak, the particular, the voice of the one lamb so loved by God.

God is truly compassionate, merciful. But is Allah? Show me. Exhibit it by extending compassion and mercy to Rifqa. Islam will survive this young woman’s leaving it. Or is Islam so weak, so unsure of itself, that to stand tall it can only do so on top of what it has smashed down?

If that is not Islam, if I have it all wrong, then do the courageous thing – stand tall and defend the legal, moral, and spiritual right of apostasy in America. Yes, the legal right and (too often these days) the moral duty to apostatize. To exercise the right of apostasy goes to the heart of liberty. It, oddly, touches upon who we are as Americans.

Stephen Golay

Had sent the following message earlier. Another posting is in order because I am deeply concerned.

CAIR is a public entity concerned with educating the citizenry. Thought you would be interested in how this one citizen perceives your message.

I understand that you are handling the case against Rifqa Bary. I am a concerned American citizen. Concerned about the protection of this young woman’s constitutional First Amendment Rights. I am also concerned why, since 9/11, we have yet to hear from the Muslim community an affirmation (unburdened by nuances) that, under the Constitution, an individual’s First Amendment RIghts, regarding religion, trumps any presumed rights of a particular religious community. I say that as one who is securely rooted in his own religious community.

An individual’s religious beliefs should not be curtailed, or the person punished, for holding such, just because those beliefs are claimed by the person’s prior religious community as being “offensive” or “dishonoring”. That can only be if the law, God forbid, should recognizes that the group has extra constitutional authority over the individual, and can exercise that claim over its members; that can only be so if the law, itself, is subjected to the individual’s bonded relationship to the religion or ancestral heritage they were born into. In the case of Rifqa Bary, Islam. As a nation, do not what to go down that road. Sweet Jesus, Savior, Son of God, protect us from that folly! Holy Mary, Mother of God, defend us in that battle!

Please CAIR/OHIO, since the mainstream media identifies you as the first order advocate for the Muslim community, where is that affirmation regarding the Constitution? Where is your statement that the Constitution must be interpreted and applied without reference to Islam and Islamic Law?

Better yet, where is your joy when a young Muslim man or woman (entering the obligations of adulthood) questions, searches, and settles down to convictions and commitments they discovered on their own? Though at first it may be diffifult to bear, so what if those convictions of hers are contrary to family, clan, ancestral history and prior religious community. Again, so what? Though, I am quite able to acknowledge, when a young person walks out and away, that there may be a bit of sadness, this should, in fact, be an occasion of great joy: for one entering adulthood has not walked away from religion as such, but has found and accepted the way GOD HAS CHOSEN TO BRING HIM OR HER TO HIMSELF.

So, where is your joy for Rifqa Bary?

If Allah is truly compassionate and merciful one would think Allah himself would be rejoicing at Rifqa Bary’s exercise of liberty to embrace God’s invitation. He would be dancing a jig with Archangel Gabriel knowing Rifqa heard His invitation and gave herself to Him utterly. And, if that invitation comes through Jesus Christ her Savior? So, again, so what? It is no business of yours.

Rifqa Bary’s First Amendment rights is what is at stake in this case, in that Florida courtroom. This case, the story of her conversion and act of flight, could become a watershed moment in American constitutional history. Let it be, pray God may it be so.

So my prayer for you. May Allah give you the truest of compassion and mercy, which is witnessed only when you extend it to others. Be, for America, a testimony of that compassion by offering its hand to Rifqa Bary.

Thank you.

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY REGARDING RIFQA BARY

Are you taking action to defend Rifqa Bary’s right to leave Islam?

It looks like not. If so, please inform the public.

In the case of Rifqa Bary there is only one fundamental question. Here, we state it in several ways – as variations, so to speak, on a foundational theme.

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, there should be no such protection, for either a minor or an adult? That any presumed claim that the religious community has over the individual trumps the thoughts and actions of the individual person? That the liberties of those thoughts and actions must be denied if they offend or contradict those of the religious or cultural community?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand up for her, that, in America, the courts should decide against the individual person (and for the religious community) if that person’s thoughts, beliefs, or actions, contradict the community’s self-understanding?

Is this especially so in the case of one who (acting upon his or her constitutional rights) decides to leave the community? Should the courts compel that individual to reenter the community and adhere to its doctrines and behaviors? In deciding the fate of such an individual person (minor or adult), should the courts give preferential consideration to the community’s current or prior claim upon that individual’s thoughts and behaviors (based on the “privileged” concept that an individual’s fundamental identity is group/community based?

If the individual’s thoughts or actions give offense to that community’s self-understanding (especially those of the leave-taker), should the court compel the defendant to renounce those contradictory beliefs and conform to the community’s self-understanding?

Are you saying, by your refusal to stand for her, that Rifqa Bary’s primary (if not only) identity is the religion handed to her by family, clan, ancestral history, or the wider Muslim community? If this notion is fundamentally foundational to who Rifqa Bary is, are you claiming that no court or state action (no other outside influence) has the legal or moral right to separate her from it; that she, herself, has no recourse or liberty to do so?

What’s to be drawn from all this?

Does this mean that Islam has a weak (if not non-existent) understanding of individual personal identity? In short, that the religion lacks a true philosophy of being.

If that is the case, it certainly, for me, answers some outstanding questions. For without such a philosophy (which has existed in the West since Aristotle, via Augustine, Aquinas, and beautifully crafted in the Anglo-American experience) law is orphaned to become whimsical, arbitrary, with nothing better to do than to tease the temptation of totalitarianism.

The West, no surprise, has its own sad history of disregarding that philosophy. It can ill afford the upheaval of integrating an alien self-understanding that cannot or will not yield to the tested wisdom of its civilizing philosophy.

Though she may not be able to articulate it, it is this hard-earned glory that Rifqa Bary is resting against, and trusting to shelter her.

Rifqa Bary, by the witness of her convictions – even through her act of flight – stands squarely upon the wisdom and protection of this tradition. Her sense of self is rooted within it. No family, no clan, no ancestral history, no community, has the legal or moral right to uproot this young lady.

So what is CAIR, and the Muslim community, doing to assist Rifqa Bary in staying put in the ground she has chosen (rooted and nurtured) so she can blossom into the beautiful woman of God’s heart’s desire?

________________________________________________

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, why are you not defending this girl’s right to convert out of Islam?

Rifqa Bary is a most loved, particular friend of God. She carries, as we all do, His image within her which no man, no COMMUNITY, no STATE, no CLAN or FAMILY, can possess or rule. This image of God, which she expresses as her love and loyalty to Jesus Christ, is off limits to others; it cannot be enslaved to the rule and dictates of her family, the Islamic Community, or the State.

God found Rifqa Bary through his Son, Jesus Christ. In finding her God brought her to Himself. This is her deepest identity: not her family, not the Islamic Community. Standing before this the State, through its courts, must remain silent – except to affirm her constitutional right to find and practice matters of the heart and soul as she is called. That affirmation extends to protecting her from family or communities that seek to infringe upon that exercise.

Regarding mattes of religion, when weighing the issues involved in the conflict of religious communities and individual persons, the individual has the constitutional protection. (This is not skirting the pivotal truth that American society – including its Constitution – is founded on Judaic-Christian underpinnings. That is simply a discussion for another time.)

Related to this, the Constitution does not acknowledge any legal or moral notion that one is somehow “born” into a religion. Is the Muslim community in America seeking to change this fundamental constitutional understanding? Is the Muslim community under compulsion to do so anyway because such a notion is foundational to Islam itself? Does that explain the silence?

This is an important question. It goes to the heart of the Rifqa Bary case. Answer please. An informed debate with Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch would satisfy me.

So, what’s up? Why the silence? What’s wrong with coming to the aid of one who found Islam wanting and left it under threat to her life? Why the sitting on of hands? Why are you not bearing down on the powers that be in Ohio and Florida to do the right thing? Why are you not filling court briefs in support of Rifqa Bary’s emancipation?

I have followed these so-called apostasy cases in America and abroad since 9/11. All these years I have waited for that definitive Muslim voice to state firmly (without self-protecting deception) that Islam has no objection to any man, woman, or child, walking away from the religion; that ultimately Islam (as a society, as a political religion) cannot, should not, rule the hearts (or bodies) of men, which belong to God only.

The absence of that voice makes me wonder. Makes me wonder about much. Is the Muslim community seeking to change America’s constitution, making it an offense, under law, for an individual (minor or adult) to leave Islam? To make evangelizing Muslims illegal? I’ll state it that frankly. Maybe Islam in America is on that course. I don’t know; you tell me. All I know, something’s in the air. Hearing a few Methodists, a couple of Jesuits, and some J-Street Jews talk about not giving a damn – I am beginning to be righteously fearful.

Back to Rifqa.

In this particular apostasy case of Rifqa Bary’s (yes, that is what it is) why the damning silence?

Does the honor of any family clan or community of believers rank higher in the loves of God than this young lady? That is not the American way.

If so, than damn family honor. Damn the community, any community that requires for its self-identity the smashing of underfoot.

Come out, come out, from wherever you are. Stand up for the weak, the particular, the voice of the one lamb so loved by God.

God is truly compassionate, merciful. But is Allah? Show me. Exhibit it by extending compassion and mercy to Rifqa. Islam will survive this young woman’s leaving it. Or is Islam so weak, so unsure of itself, that to stand tall it can only do so on top of what it has smashed down?

If that is not Islam, if I have it all wrong, then do the courageous thing – stand tall and defend the legal, moral, and spiritual right of apostasy in America. Yes, the legal right and (too often these days) the moral duty to apostatize. To exercise the right of apostasy goes to the heart of liberty. It, oddly, touches upon who we are as Americans.

Stephen Golay

Mohole makes a lot of stuff up to fill in his posts around the talking points list he has. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be so predictable both here and elsewhere, nor would he post such easily fact checked garbage. People have allowed such lies to remain unchallenged for far too long thinking that everyone could see through them.

Unfortunately, the past election proved that you cannot allow the liberals to build a scaffold of lies for years and then keep their lies from being believed during an election. Just as they constantly circulate and post their talking points, they need to be constantly challenged. In another comments section Moho is being ripped a new one on another subject, so I’m glad to see that those like him are no longer ignored in hopes they’ll eventually go away.

Regards

1. Colombia ”

When I look at this same list (most recent), Columbia is not even in the top 10. Most of “Christian” Europe is at the bottom of the list (lowest rates). The country with the LOWEST murder rate is Spain – ostensibly a Christian country. I have trouble seeing exactly where you got your information and how you reached your conclusions.

You do know leftists push the drug war 100x what the “conservatives” push for it… and the right wing hates the drug war… The leftist need the drug war because they can’t pass healthcare without it… they are now expanding the drug war to include things like tobacco and fast food and hundreds of other things all in the name of leftism. You see poorly educated ppl like you who know nothing about the drug war can only spew mindless talking points about it.

It won’t be long before leftism start the drug wars against the largest drug dealer in the world… McDonalds…

“… spittle-flecked rage is not a rebuttal …”

My, what an inaccurate and sub-par attempt to mischaracterize my comments. I hope you can do better in the future when attempting to lay unconstitutional drug laws at the feet others. Maybe you could point to a post of mine that stated I agreed with such laws, for example, or to a portion of my post that even vaguely implied that the drug war in this country was appropriately waged. Perhaps you’d like post such comments focusing on that topic rather than here where the drug issue has only been included by those who are trying to change the subject.

I also think you might need to grasp the basic point about our country that the state is not subservient to a single legal religion. Therefore, however disproportionate the consequences may be for violators, drug laws are established and enforced by a government of elected leaders. That means that there is a way to reform those laws if you and others are in the majority and find them unjust. Maybe you could point to a Muslim country with a superior constitutional system that actually allowed the changing of such things as drug laws if the majority wished to do so. Even in Afghanistan where people are very bravely exercising what democracy they can, they are still unable to alter laws in a way that would directly contradict Islamic law. In addition, in this country there is no national government swearing to carry out the will of Allugh which includes strict injunctions against selling drugs to Muslims while at the same time funding itself with the money it makes from selling drugs to Muslims.

Until you can return to the matter at hand, your opinion of the predatory sexual behavior of the huge prison population (an extremely large percentage of which is in fact Muslim, a religion that allows and encourages the homosexual rape of infidels) is nothing more than an example of your posting your favorite little talking point wherever you can whether it’s relevant or not.

Have a great gin joint kind of evening