Comments on: A Civilized Dialogue Between Feminists Who Disagree About Islamic Gender Apartheid. Part Two.

By: Friday Links — March 6, 2009 « Muslimah Media Watch

Friday Links — March 6, 2009 « Muslimah Media Watch — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:29:46 +0000

[...] Chesler and Dorchen Leidholdt hold a dialogue about Islam and Women in parts one and two. (Full disclosure: I do not hold Ms. Chesler as an authority on Islam, nor do I believe her [...]

By: aloysiusmiller

aloysiusmiller — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 03:49:37 +0000

We’re all evolving. See Samuel 15:8. See Acts 8:1. Who knows what happened in the early years of our era when Jews dominated. We for sure know what happened later when they were not dominant culminating in the atrocities of teh 20th century that were led by pagans not Christians. (No denying Christian complicity but not significantly among the churched). Does any rational Jew now fear a Christian organized pogrom? What about a Muslim pogrom? On a scale of 1-10 rank your fear of either. If it is 10 for Muslim it has to be one for Christian. Yes and they ought to be at about a 5 on their fear that Rahm Emmanuel and George Soros will sell them down the river. Or would that be an eight or nine?

By: submandave

submandave — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:47:50 +0000

iammefrommiami: If we can’t say that men have contributed more to “civilization,” including fighting for and securing universal sufferage as well as fighting and dying to abolish slavery and free millions from brutal totalitarian regimes, then where do we get off saying it about the West. If it’s “man-loving” to say that most advances in health, standard of living, agriculture, production, conservation, art, etc. etc. etc. have been created by men then it’s likewise parochialism to say it of Western countries in general.

Recognizing and discussing real issues does not make one a “hater” of either men or Islam. Single minded obsession with what is wrong and broadbrush assumptions about millions based upon this limited focus does. Assertions that my posession of a penis makes me a potential murderer and rapist are just so much noise and akin to an assertion that posessin of a vagina makes one a potential whore and infanticide.

By: Greenconsciousness

Greenconsciousness — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:40:37 +0000

I typoed Dworkin but you know what I mean.

By: Greenconsciousness

Greenconsciousness — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:30:23 +0000

Civilized dialog from the New Agenda did not just spring out of the minds of middle class women. I and the WAMI founder have been arguing at the Reclusive Leftist and other feminist blogs all during the war and since about cultural relativism and the feminist attitude toward the Islamic theocracies. We have been called racist, shamed, banned and ridiculed on these blogs and censored on yours Phyllis while engaging women in what you might term uncivilized but I call frank and honest discussion. Now as the issue as we see it becomes acceptable with the women we have been educating you compliment them over our dead bodies. They have “civilized” discussion. What have we been doing then? This is the bitterness of Drowkin calling to you. Remember the Cassandra who were with you when it was not popular to be with you. Or we shall learn a lesson you did not mean to teach.

By: bbloom

bbloom — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:53:14 +0000

The only way for someone to truely understand the intrinsic hatred that Muslims have for women is to live amoung them. Until this happens it is impossible to try to convince the average modern thinking person.
I am sure your friend who works with victims of violent men, thinks that this is just another typical tragedy. Men who abuse women in the West are scorned. They are seen as cowards who hurt the weak and there is no admiration for them. They are an anomoly. In Islamic society, the exact opposite is the case.
Is death by stoning “domestic violence” too? Your friend mentions how they were able to convince her client’s brother to testify for her. What brother in a Western society would need to be convinced? We also need to understand that she is dealing with “upper class” people who are educated. The vast majority of people in Islamic societies are only educated in the Koran(but, most women have only the bare minimum education needed to perform domestic chores).This is a culture that genitally mutilates women as we read this. Ask your friend to spend a month in any Islamic county and try to walk freely down the street without a man.I think she will come back with an entirely different opinion.

By: iammefrommiami

iammefrommiami — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:40:26 +0000

I’m old enough to remember when “wife beating” became “spousal abuse”. I remember some feminists being upset about this because they thought the intent was to disappear violence against women by “universalizing” it. Feminists have been called “man-haters” for some time now, sometimes for merely pointing out women hatred. At other times the charge was correct, there where and still are some “man-haters” out there. But let’s get real regarding this beheading stuff. The common denominator here is that the majority of people committing violence against women as well as men -are men. Not politically correct? Horrible man hating feminist? Bite me Rush Limbough. But seriously, I think it’s good that feminists got out of that man-hating phase. I think it’s the same impulse that stops them-us from tarring Muslims with the same brush. If we can’t say that men are threats to “civilization” then where do we get off saying it about Muslims. If it’s “man-hating” to say that most rape, murders, child molestation, sex slavery, spousal abuse, most Wall Street ripoffs, most be-headings, most tortures, etc. etc.etc. are carried out by men then it’s likewise Muslim hating to say it of Muslims. It’s a tough fight that can’t be named.

By: Alfredo

Alfredo — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:12:15 +0000

In Basra, in “the new” Iraq, honor killings against women happen almost every day.

Recently, for supposedly flirting with a British soldier (not even a kiss involved), a father killed his teenage daughter. He was in jail for about 2 hours, and no charges were filed against him. This is only one worthy news and the tip of the iceberg.

Dorchen et al ought to come down from their suave pedestal provided by the liberties bestowed by the US constitution. However important to always denounced any violence against women, let us not confuse oranges with apples.

This confusion is used by those who know about Islam as a deception, and those who don’t know as wishful thinking (like former president Bush). Wake up and smell the coffee, people, before it is too late!

And I add: si vis pacem, para bellum. (if you want peace, prepare for war.

By: George Jochnowitz

George Jochnowitz — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:47:35 +0000

“Crusade” is the Christian analog of “jihad.” The first violent acts of the Crusaders took place in the Rhineland, before the Crusaders ever reached the Holy Land, and were directed against Jews (see Carroll’s CONSTANTINE’S SWORD, p. 237). Once the Crusaders got to Jerusalem, they drove all the Jews into a synagogue and set it on fire (see Carroll, p. 250).

As you wrote, Phyllis, Judaism and Christianity have evolved and are evolving. Blind faith, whether religious or atheistic, is a dangerous phenomenon. The only two doctrines that people nowadays believe with absolute faith are Marxism and Islam.