Letter to My European Friends
No more. In most areas of culture, America is more creative. Europe is boringly predictable, and there is very little that compares to the energy of America, nothing approaching the “can-do” spirit of the American people, nothing comparable to American entrepreneurial creativity. The clearest evidence of the decadence of the European spirit is the dramatic drop in birth rates. We’ve got lots of children. You’ve seemingly given up on that most important kind of creativity.
The Europe I loved, and still love, is increasingly a theme park. It’s fun to visit, but it’s no longer a source of creative inspiration. Europeans seem to me to have abdicated their liberties to their governments, provided that the governments provide them with an easy life, replete with free medical care, plenty of vacations, and no international obligations. Surely you know that very few of your tax euros go towards your defense. We have been paying that bill for decades, and our soldiers and military power have been protecting you.
So don’t be surprised—but you should be very concerned—that we are increasingly looking across the Pacific. It’s no accident that the most brilliant and talented Americans are increasingly Asians, not Europeans.
We don’t want to follow your example. And your landslide support of Obama—who has done terrible damage to America—confirms my pessimism about your future.
Indeed, just as these poll results were published, I noticed another headline, announcing record levels of European unemployment. The two things go hand in hand. Only the energies of a free people can sustain the creation of wealth, and the sort of state that you have created, both on a national and continental level, stifles those energies. We, too, are having a difficult time, due in part to our own blunders, and in part because the Obama administration doesn’t seem to appreciate how exceptional America is. You turn to your leaders to solve those problems. Most of us—or so I hope—would prefer that the government get out of our way and let us find the best remedies by ourselves.
We have a chance to do that, especially if we thumb our noses at your bad advice, and send Obama to early retirement on the island of Oahu.
Interesting and insightful. Europe, perhaps, is less a theme park than it is a museum, capturing a fleeting moment in time that has no meaning in the world we inhabit today.
Exactly, a bunch of hasbins in the dust bin of history.
Europe is a collection of has beens, never were’s, and never-will-be’s. As I have written in blog many times, the worst thing the US can do is listen to Europe.
And as usual, Diplomad is correct.
The American Enlightenment and the European Enlightenment are polar opposites, and when we had our Enlightenment, we broke free of the cyclical chains that continue to bind European minds.
Listening to Europe politically is simply inane — we’ve already *solved* the problems they’re still dealing with, and more often than not, are failing to deal with. Let’s move on to the next big thing rather than rehashing their mistakes.
People who are wedded to their entitlements will never give them up, even if generations to come will suffer. And Euros who riots over ‘austerity’ measures – when their nations are in financial collapse-are incapable of behaving rationally.
So, is it any wonder that they see Radical-in-Chief as The One, after all, he is one of them, and on steroids!
Besides, whatever realm leftists are involved in necessitates some sort of bullying, whether financial or otherwise. They know no other way because personal responsibility doesn’t resonate in their closed minds. They rule by the mob -http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/01/leftist-dogma-the-same-world-over-freedom-loving-people-beware-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki-32-2/
http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/01/leftist-dogma-the-same-world-over-freedom-loving-people-beware-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki-32-2/
Living here in Israel, I always thought that we were a “European” country. But after reading the above, I think we are an AMERICAN country. Now if only the Knesset could stop arguing socialism versus capitalism, and if only somehow restricting abortion could get on the table, and if only Israelis could get over their European-like aversion to the death penalty (for deadly terrorism), and if only people would stop believing everythign the MSM sells them – well, at least they didn’t buy Obama, as hard as our MSM tries…..
By the way, my grandfather also lived in Harlem. He said the only Gentile in the building was the janitor. But they were very circumspect, hiding the Yiddish newspaper inside the New York Times. Today we’d be more likely to do the opposite!
I don’t think their attachment to entitlements accounts for their solidarity with Obama. Europeans are a spiritually dead lot. Cynicism, nihilism, arrogance backed by nothing dominate. They can’t stand the vitality, creativity and most of all, optimism of the American Spirit. They have never been able to abide it. Yet on some level they envy it, and they compensate for that with a pose of condescension. And sour grapes condemnation of all that we do, think, believe in and stand for. They see a kindred spirit in Obama. The condescension, the unmerited pretension, the fascination with worn ideas, the disdain for action, agency and innovation, the resentment of achievement. It is their attachments to these compensations for their own dead spirit, their own dead cultures that causes them to Obama as a kindred spirit.
Well stated.
Having lived in England and other parts of Europe over the past 10 years, I can confirm Mr. Erimita’s comments about the empty arrogance and unbounded political correctness of the average European and their disdain for and, at the same time, envy of anything American. It may actually be even worse than he describes. As usual, the press, especially BBC, has played a huge role. If Obama wins this election, he and the American media will have 4 more years to continue to destroy many of the things that make America exceptional. Time to retire him and move on.
Is this a Victor Davis Hanson sock puppet? Because goddurn is that well put.
It’s even worse than all that. They have lost all ability to defend their culture and are going out of business demographically. As Mark Steyn has so devastatingly documented, Europe has become a playground where extended childhood and the empty pleasures of a pampered life have sapped even their will to procreate. In another 50 years there will be no European culture: only a Eurabian culture wherein the most successful breeders–Muslims–have supplanted the intellectually and physically flaccid Europeans.
Europe is already dead. They just don’t know it yet.
America is at risk of getting on the same glide plane. Obama’s election was actually a symptom, not the disease. The disease is one of a degenerative cultural spirit wrought by secular humanism driving religion out of the public square.
“When you don’t believe in something, you will believe in anything.”
As a Swiss having lived in several European countries over the last few decades (now retired in Spain) I unfortunately have to agree with what is said here. Most of Europe want Obama to continue – it is so insane, so incredibly foolish, so utterly sick. They continue to live, despite all the problems, in a bubble. I understand all Americans who do not want to have to do anything with Europe.
All of Europe has a lower corporate tax rate than the US.
Most of Europe (except Britain) does not jail and impoverish innocent men for the mere crime of failing to keep their wives excited at all times. If you doubt this, go check out Dr. Helen’s blog.
I am not sure we can still say US freedom is higher.
Toad just a few points. I’d say hefty corporate taxes is largely a result of the left here just like the roots of the housing crisis. I think it can be implied by Michael’s article the America he refers is not defined by those in agreement with Obama and there’s a much greater percentage of us than anything like-minded in Europe. But speaking of tax, how about Europe’s on gasoline doubling their cost at the pump? I don’t understand your second point. I can understand your third but again, it’s not due to the America Michael refers but the America Europe wants. If we pull out of NATO of which I hope will come about and stop paying for their defense, what kind of new taxes and restrictions on liberty would they implement (assuming they care)?
“I think it can be implied by Michael’s article the America he refers is not defined by those in agreement with Obama”
True Scotsman fallacy.
Fact, in the face of a bothered European.
As a gross percentage, Europe may have a lower corporate tax rate, but if you know which palms to grease in Washington, you can get a much lower corporate tax rate here in the US than the posted 35%. That’s the corporate cronyism at work. How else do you think GE managed to not pay one penny of their domestic tax obligation even with a corporate tax rate of 35%? – They had all sorts of rebates, loopholes and deductions they could use a result of Washington wrangling on their behalf.
So, what rate do Euro corps pay compared to the privileged US corps?
In the end, we need both a lower corporate tax rate AND one with zero loopholes and deductions.
WRT your 2nd point it’s interesting to note that Dr. Ledeen himself is married to a European if I am not mistaken … though I suppose they are still subject to US divorce law.
He’s honest, and you’re resentful.
I am too, and have spent extensive time living there as well. It is my personal experience with Europe, and Europe’s inability to solve its problems, which leads me to agree with Ledeen and Diplomad.
If your wife is British, or Greek, or Italian (as Dr. Ledeen’s wife, if again I am not mistaken) or from some other countries best left unnamed, then I can see your point.
Still, I hope for you that you are not subject to US divorce laws.
Your divorce laws are so draconian towards men that they’ve stopped marrying altogether. Plus, some guy just lost his ancetral homes to some broad who just CLAIMED to be his mistress. Don’t even get me started on your human rights tripe!
A friend sent me a “short story to start my day” as he put it:
“One day long long ago, there lived a women who did not bitch, whine or nag. But it was a long time ago and it was just that one day. The End. “
Considering marriage and child rearing are nearly dead in Europe anyway, I’m not sure that is even worthy of a response.
It’s barely an issue here
Keep in mind though that although their corporate tax rate is lower they also have a huge VAT on top of that, so overall taxes are much higher.
Mr. Ledeen,
When you get all your horns blowing at one, you are an army that fills the valley.
Bravo.
Donald
I worked in Germany in the mid-70s, in a service industry and mostly among the proles and shopkeepers and such. Even back then it was evident, it was easily observable, that when the government guarantees your existence, there is no incentive to produce. It showed in dozen ways every day the already manifest difference between the German approach and the US approach to the mundane realm of nuts-and-bolts-and-beans commerce.
Perhaps their universities were grand; perhaps their sociology was compassionate; perhaps their government was enlightened. But their shopkeepers had no flair, their clerks had little initiative, their laborers were rigid. They were all very friendly people, but the future meant very little to them, as it was all taken care of for them.
Yeah, I get it. But I still wish we could design and build a car like a BMW.
It would be nice.
But other German car companies do weird things. I remember looking a Chrysler (as in “DaimlerChrysler”) and the idiots (it WAS German designed…) had put the battery in the wheel well… You had to remove the tire to remove the battery!
I’d take any “advice” from a continent responsible for unleashing Karl Marx, Vladmir Lenin, Josef Stalin, and Adolf Hitler, not to mention with two world wars, on the rest of us with a very large chunk of saleratus.
Also dont forget Mussolini and Franco, and in the 1800′s they also gave us Napolion. Although we cant completely forgive asia, as they gave us Togo and Mao.
The Asians didn’t give us Togo. It was first invented by the Romans but they never sought patent protection. The Japanese, who are excellent in producing knock offs, redesigned it and, to be original and make it their own, changed its name to Togo from Toga. But they were smart enough to patent the design. In fact, because of such foresight, Belushi had to pay them royalties for using it in his Animal House movie.
Europe gave us Stonehenge, the Pieta, and The Who Live At Leeds. So I don’t count them out completely.
But the last 40 years have shown the USA to be the more creative force, especially in Mean Evil Business (iPhone, Windows, etc) and Europe to be the dissipated ones.
You realize that last item was just a concert, right?
And how long ago whas it?
Also Monty Python, Yes, Jethro Tull, Genesis, Tom Sharpe, George MacDonald Fraser, P.G. Wodehouse, Tom Stoppard, and… uh…
Okay, that was Great Britain. The Czechs get partial credit for Stoppard, though.
And my adolescence would have been bereft of passion and meaningless had it not been for the constant nocturnal companionship of such delicious Europeans as Brigitte Bardot, Catherine Deneuve, Claudia Cardinale, Julie Christy, Monica Viti and, but of course, Sophia.
One problem with Europe is the bold and adventurous come to America and have been doing so for years. This gives us an adrenaline shot while bleeding them of the folks they need.
Agreed. I have long believed that most of the brightest and most ambitious Europeans ended up in the USA during the period of immigration circa 1850-1930. The less fortunate “best and brightest” who did not come to our shores perished in the world wars. Thus, for nearly 70 years there has been no native European paradigm of a polity founded on the principle of individual freedom rather than group identity.
Australia is doing pretty well and they were all criminals.
The European continent is a dark violent place. They had their last concentration camps nearly 13 yrs ago. On the other hand, the US is a peaceful country. The Europeans are responsible for the mess the US is trying to fix. I like Europe but not for more than a week long visit. Hated every second of it when I was living in the Netherlands for a while some years ago. Viva America.
Winston, are you kidding me? The US is more peaceful? As far as I know the risk to be shot down is much higher in the US than in western Europe. And who went to Iraq without a real reason?
Generally I don’t like the tone of the discussion. There’s too much hubris and too few knowledge about the other on many sides. And Mr. Leeden’s article unfortunately is no exception.
Europe as well as the US are much more complex than articles like this try to make it appear. There’s light and shadow on both sides. I could go on for hours to put forward examples. For example, from here in Germany it looks like political correctness was more widespread in the US than here. We are living in slightly different cultures which are probably similar enough that leads to misunderstandings. I think it’s better to first understand the other before dismissing him as arrogant or whatnot.
Just to make a final point: I am immensely grateful that the US along with their allies brought an end to Nazi Germany.
Much is made in European media of the cowboy nature of Americans, of the proliferation of firearms, the level of crime here.
So, for a bit of perspective here are some statistics from 2010.
Country Population Violent crimes rate/100k
US 314,686,000 1,246,248 396
UK 56,979,204 1,158,957 2,034
Austria 7,963,387 133,546 1,677
Sweden 9,617,453 108,004 1,123
Canada 32,787,059 306,559 935
France 64,437,500 324,765 504
So the United States, awash in guns, has a violent crime rate four fifths that of France and only one fifth that of the United Kingdom.
As was written long ago “An armed society is a polite society.” – Robert Heinlein.
Lets not compare reported crime. The different countries has different practice, different views of violent crime, different law etc..
Go look up the stats about death from violent crime, and we be sure to talk about the same thing.
There you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
“And who went to Iraq without a real reason?”
Saddam Hussein was enough reason. People tend to ignore he had already massed murdred over 1 million of his own people during his reign. I personally know a couple of Kurds here in Germany who can attest to that. Not to mentioned his 8 year war with Iran, invasion of Kuwait and sponsoring of terrorism.
Iraq isn’t in the news these days. Hmmmm.
The more I watch the ME, the more I think we should have left Saddam Hussein alone. Sure he was a murderous, corrupt tyrant. But he was just the sort of tyrant to keep the lid on Iraq. How much longer do think Iraq is going to last before “Arab Spring” comes and the Moslem Brotherhood takes over?
We need someone just like him in Afghanistan, too. Someone who can, and WILL kill entire villages and clans to keep the Taliban and Al Qaeda down.
Democracy and Islam just don’t mix.
BTW: Iraq is in the news plenty – usually one group of Moslems blowing up another group of Moslems. (No loss…)
I don’t think there aren’t any more Christians left for them to murder…
My humble opinion– Saddam was a liability to the world’s oil supply and already proved he had no restraints in waging war on his neighbors. The House of Saud wouldn’t have lasted a week if he decided to roll over the border into the KSA. He had to go. Currently the jury is still out on Iraq. It’s up to them as this point, but the odds are against them.
“–BTW: Iraq is in the news plenty – usually one group of Moslems blowing up another group of Moslems. ”
All I see is Syria and North Africa of late. Who is blowing up Iraqis? Oh, other muslisms. Unsettling trend.
You’re right about democracy and islam. Their culture ensures it will never happen.
“And who went to Iraq without a real reason?”
France.
Herr Klemme: You sound earnestly German and certain to a fault, as usual. Depends to a degree, as always, on where you sit, but really, many of us have had a belly-full of all this patronizing european happyspeak. And, of course, two can play. You don’t like the tone you detect? Poor baby. You also mistake hubris for contempt and pretend that clarity is impossible in your drab little euroworld of endless shades of grey — kind of like East Germany in the rain on a misty November afternoon in 1963.
We are entering a time of great shortages and the certain and abrupt end of much wishful thinking. Hey, maybe you euroweenies can see it as an opportunity to celebrate the joy of being all on your own, free from the heavy hand of us obese, stump-toothed American rubes. Problem: one thing you forget — above all in your crap-filled, fantasy-driven media — is that for generations now hundreds of thousands of educated Americans have passed through your lands every year on business of all kinds, observing and evaluating as they go. You would, no doubt, be shocked to learn what we really think about you, and how well-informed we are.
BTW, can’t help but note that you make no attempt to explain the ludicrous pro-Obama polling in Europe. C’mon, show us the path to righteousness, and elect a few politically correct leaders of your own. How about a Turk in the Bundestag or a Moroccan at the Quai d’Orsay or a Pakistani in Parliament in place of Cameron?
These are my options:
1. Keep my style of discussion. This will lead to more comments like yours and certainly not improve mutual understanding.
2. Adjust to your style. This will lead to harsh words, bad feelings and no understanding either.
3. Silence. This won’t improve understanding but comes with the benefit of not costing my time.
Robert – sorry to say so (I am Swiss), but I do not know one single German (I am retired in Spain, surrounded by German retirees) who is not against the US and I always wondered why, whether leftists or not. It is weird.
It’s an easy and cheap carthasis at absolutely no personal risk. I noticed the same at anti-American demonstrations.
@ 9-Robert Klemme.
“Winston, are you kidding me? The US is more peaceful? As far as I know the risk to be shot down is much higher in the US than in western Europe. And who went to Iraq without a real reason?…I am immensely grateful that the US along with their allies brought an end to Nazi Germany.”
Criticism and at the same time gratitude!” yes, Winston is entirely right!’ through war comes real peace. the truth is that USA has brought peace, safety and prosperity into many countries on the planet.
The USA along with its western allies brought an end to Nazi barbarism in Europe and to Japanese aggression in Asia. They liberated Europe and Asia and the world from their evils, and recently the Americans themselves who liberated hundreds of millions of Europeans from communism. So, the willingness of the US to project power has helped prevent wars, while the reluctance of the US to project power often has caused wars.
Iraq? in fact Iraq was an rogue state, while Americans had to brought an end to Saddam’s madness. For such reasons, the United States of America along with its close western allies including “Israel, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia and Canada” MUST maintain world peace because the institution of fail and utter impotence “aka UN” can not do that!!!
Michael, I believe you are misinterpreting the poll. For example, I’m all for the re-election of Francois Hollande – I’m all for my foreign competitors being as encumbered by their government as possible.
Aside from being morally repugnant (to be glad that large numbers of fellow human beings are forced to live as quasi-slaves under socialism), this is an economic fallacy. The size of the pie is not fixed. Economic competition is win-win. The more that is produced, the better for all, even those temporarily displaced by others that are better at producing.
Moreover, if Europe were to unshackle itself, there would be more options for freedom-loving Americans to escape our sinking ship. Obviously, as Ledeen argues persuasively above, this is not going to happen. But, it should be our wish.
Roger, actually my comment was more tongue-in-cheek than serious. Yes, on a macroeconomic scale, free trade, specialization etc. results in more wealth for everyone. But the politicians willing to believe that and act on it are few and far between. (I don’t think the Democrats believe such economic truths at all.)
It is also a fact that social reform can cause growth. For instance education. Government programs for higher education can and will case innovation, lower unemployment rate etc.
It is also a fact that a consuming middle class will keep the wheels of economy running.
Governments should provide free education and health care fore children(at least). Making sure that everyone have the opportunity to use its full potential, and thus increasing the potential revenue of society as a whole.
Crime drug abuse etc cost money in terms of police resources, but is also cost money in terms of (directly translated) creation of value. Lost production, lost revenue for businesses(potential customers), etc etc.
Everyone that is not creating value is costing society, either direly or indirectly by its absence from the value making.
The many economic consequences of a unjust society must be taken in count.
After the war, Europe was in ruins, in the vacuum between Soviet and USA. Our political arenas, was characterized by the tense polarization between highly marked-oriented political opinion, and highly socialist political opinion. Most countries also had a communist party, (that of-course, during the cold war, was at the very attention of the police and the secret service).
Anyhow. After the cold war, things started to change in politics. Here in Scandinavia, we never got socialist governments, and we never got the extremely marked oriented ones either.
I think both views tells us the truth in different ways. Today, most political parties (over here) support the ideas of a good social economics. And the main difference between the parties is their ideological past. The balance between rights and duty.
Our governments are collaborating with the industries in terms of making laws, and providing the infrastructure they need. Our prisons(in Norway) is highly criticized abroad for being too nice. On the other hand, prisoners get the opportunity to study inside of prison, and get a job and a respectable life once they have served their punishment.
If you give a man fish, he can eat for one day. If you teach a man to fish he can eat for the rest of his life.
If governments don’t teach theirs citizens to fish, they will loose the potential revenue a fishing industry could have created.
Americans love charity, we don’t. You don’t understand our social structures. It is suppose to stimulate growth not to compensate for the absence of it.
(I live in Norway, and do not have to speak for the idiots of the EU system).
surely you’re not saying that Sweden never had socialist governments. are you? What was Palme?
Why? People who are prosperous and free to keep prospering are generally invested in a peaceful world. The current French regime will only stagnant and frustrate its citizens, and inevitably, France will end up looking like Greece. It will be disastrously unstable.
Spent a week in Venice two years ago and I was disappointed in how lifeless the city seemed: empty plazas, empty shops, closed restaurants. As the evening approached, it was like the employees of Disneyland going home and leaving the tourists to amuse themselves. St Marks square was a major disappointment. Luxury hotels and restaurants with no patrons.
The funny thing is my European friends are INCENSED that we would be irritated with their slack on defense spending (and indeed they claim that if you look at total European spending, it approaches ours…sort of) or that we would expect some sort of gratitude for saving their freedom from tyranny directly twice and through the strength of our resolve a third time.
They are OFFENDED at the very IDEA that we would think that we did something valuable for Europe.
It always amused me. So your pleas will fall on deaf ears there. They are comfortable as comfortable slaves and desire no more than an easy and slow decline and death. If you point out their demographics they’ll call you a doomsayer or simply refuse to discuss it. They think they can win an argument with math.
As H. Beam Piper put it in Little Fuzzy, ‘pretty quick you’ve got ten little fuzzies, then 5, then 2, then none…’ and that’s what’s going to happen to Europe. Of course, productive land and infrastructure won’t remain empty – it will fill with vital immigrants who have no interest in acculturating. Instead they will bring their vital culture with them and the European will vanish from the stage.
All snark aside, that’s a loss. There was much there of value.
Orion
There was much there of value.
The operative word being “was”. Much the same can be said of every great civilization that allowed itself to fall into disrepair.
And since they hold us and our military in such contempt I say give them their wish. Withdraw our troops, our bases, and our support. May their chains rest lightly on their limbs under the coming caliphate.
I’d agree with you right up until we start talking about the European nuclear powers. Do we want those to fall into the hands of the caliphate?
Can feel kind of lonely living here (Europe) for those few of us who admire the American values. Your old values. Only consolation is hanging in places like this because I can’t really talk with my friends about these issues. Most of my friends vote for the Green party and, well, for example, abhor guns. Nice people, and I think with most of them their political leanings are sort of a reflex, I doubt many of them have really tried to think any of those things through – they go for what sounds nice, and sounding nice if what the Left can be very good with.
And yes, they can afford not to think. Until something goes wrong in their own lives they have pretty nice lives, especially on those parts of the continent where living is still fairly safe. I don’t really have to worry about getting mugged or raped or even talked at rudely if I decide to take a midnight stroll through the town I live in so if I don’t want to I don’t have to ponder something like what kind of rights I have when it comes to self defense. I have decent health care – well, I may need to wait a month or two for a doctor to see me, and when that happens he will probably have somewhere between ten to twenty minutes to decide what to do, so unless we are talking about something obvious I may need another appointment down the line, when I will see another doctor who probably has not had the time to take more than a fast glance at my papers beforehand. But yes, it does work. I have rights as a worker – only problem is that now when I’m getting old all those rights kind of guarantee nobody wants to hire me because I will probably cost them quite a bit more than some younger worker. I might try to start some sort of small business myself, but with all the paperwork, and the taxes, and the rules and regulations that can be a very scary proposition.
But if we take something like that issue of self defense – heaven help anybody who does get mugged, especially if that person has the bad taste to fight the attacker, or worse, fight him off successfully and hurt him in the process. That’s the kind of situation when you notice that you actually don’t have all that many rights anymore. The real rights. Like that right to defend yourself.
Frankly, I don’t have much hope for this continent. I think things will have to get really bad before there may be any hope that they might start to get better again.
Europeans are funny. They were the most destructive, bloodthirsty people in history, responsible for two world wars that we had to end, and they butchered millions of Africans, Central Asians, and Latin Americans.
Now, they can’t even be bothered to defend themselves against the weakest enemy they’ve ever faced, who offers nothing but enslavement, misery, backwardness, and oppression.
Yet Europeans still muster the energy to criticize us.
Failure loves company.
Well said.
Some of my family in France took offense of me crossing the Atlantic and proudly becoming an American some 35 years ago. Their main argument was that I grew up in the land of high culture and I was stupidly going to deprecate myself by moving to the land of cowboys, who are supposedly deficient because they don’t regularly go to the opera house.
But the pursuit of erudition is not guaranteed to produce wisdom. I definitely prefer wisdom, and the cowboys have plenty of it, thank you very much. The Europeans are sophisticated enough to excel in the exquisite art of living without freedom and without responsibility, which we are “unfortunately” not quite so adept at. I prefer to suffer the consequences of my own mistakes rather than be crushed under the eventual outcome of the mistakes of the powerful. That’s it! I am irredeemably an American now!
Cheers!
Europe’s finest genes either were left on its myriad battlefields or emigrated long ago to lands that look to the future. So when I contemplate the dark corner of passivity into which Europe has retreated, an unfortunate conclusion recurs: Sic transit gloria mundi.
Hello from an American libertarian in Germany,
What would you expect when from people whose information sources are the equivalent of National Public Radio, even-more-National Public Radio, and even-more-National even-more-Public Radio. In thousands of conversations with the people here, I am always impressed at how much of what the locals “know” about the States is wrong….sort of like Reagan’s famous quip about liberals.
I do, however, have to add, that although taxes here are high, I have more of a feeling of getting my money’s worth than I ever have Stateside. Perhaps I have a 19% VAT to thank…..everybody has skin in the game.
Dr. Ledeen makes the typical mistake of confusing “Europe” with Western Europe. Here in Eastern Europe the party is just starting. I am not sure how long it’s going to last, but when America elected Obama, I knew that my decision to move here, instead of the US, was the right one.
But in fact, I am not sure that even Western Europe is well represented by those polls:
“And your landslide support of Obama—who has done terrible damage to America—confirms my pessimism about your future.”
Unlike Americans, Europeans don’t know, and probably don’t much care, about what damage Obama has done **to America**.
The fact is, Europeans or Canadians have never imposed such a postmodern leader **on themselves**. In fact, Canada and some of the Western Euro. states which allegedly support Obama, now have a higher economic freedom than the US … thanks to both Bush and Obama:
http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-ch1.pdf
What about Pierre Trudeau? He was Canada’s Obama: postmodern, socialist, his mother of the dominant ethnic majority, his father of the oppressed minority. He set out to fundamentally transform Canada from a first-rate world power to a multicultural welfare state, and he succeeded. So effectively was Canada removed from the world stage that when Trudeau died in 2000, the only foreign leader at his funeral was Fidel Castro.
You might be right about Trudeau: I don’t know because that was before my time. I spent a few years in Alberta, and nobody seems to like Trudeau over there, but I did not investigate why.
Still, Canada has recovered (partly thanks to an Albertan PM) as you can see if you click on the link in my comment.
You are absolutely right about Canada. I’m an American living here against my will (I will return to the U.S. if Romney wins) and I am so frustrated by the incredible “group-think” that exists here. They have all been so brainwashed by Pierre Trudeau’s socialism for over 40 years now that they can’t form an independent thought or use reason or logic to analyze any issue or calculate what unintended consequences result from Canada’s liberal/far-left policies. (I must give Stephen Harper credit for trying to change this.)
My neighbors think I’m an American freak because I think Obama is an evil man out to destroy my country. But the truth (which they won’t allow themselves to see) is that if Obama is re-elected, Canada (as the largest trading partner of the U.S.) will suffer too. Remember the saying, “If the U.S. sneezes, Canada gets a cold.”
Canada is a huge country, actually larger than the US in terms of land area. It would help if you told us where you live, at least approximately. I ask because I did not find such an extreme group-think in Alberta … or rather, I found it only in a minority of Albertans, which means it was not really GROUP-think. The fact that Harper was elected and re-elected suggests that this group-think does not exist in Canada at large.
As an aside, anybody whose neighbors think a freak because of contrarian ideas, has my sympathy. Especially if these contrarian ideas are realist, and the neighbors are fantasists, which seems to be the case for you.
Maybe my judgment is clouded by the fact that I live in Ontario, where group-think is rampant.
Speaking of which, it would be interesting to know where the polling was done. If they only asked people in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Vancouver, then no wonder 88% of Canadians support Obama!
Similar considerations apply to all other countries in the poll.
“Equally clear to contemporaries was the fact that the great mass of people would eventually accept whatever was given or imposed by thier rulers, including religion. They might rebel at times but it was usually about bread or taxes not higher principles. Material reality and their precarious existence weigh too heavily upon them. Their horizons were narrow, their submission traditional, and this worked in favor of the established authorities whatever its creed or its political color. ‘The people’ were there to be used and manipulated by a tiny political class and would remain so for a very long time.”
– Eugene Webber, History of Western Civilization c. 1988, commenting on the exhaustion that pervaded all the states caught up in the 30 Years War.
Mr. Ledeen:
You forgot the most obvious reason these Euroscum love Obama:
He shares their hatred for Israel and desire to finish Hitler’s work once and for all.
I was wondering if Michael really wrote this to his European friends? You might describe me as a European. I think of myself as an Englishman first,British,yes but that is nearly over. My politics are much nearer to yours than anyone I have met in France or Belgium . Maybe you socialise too much with University types who are very fond of expounding their secondhand ideas? Where I live in the Sussex countryside we have a mix of old country folk and DFLs like me,(Down from London.) We tend to be hypocrites who were all in favour of a “vibrant,multiculti Britain until we had our children,then got the hell out and went looking for Hobbiton.
I am interested in what would happen if the U.S. decided to get out of all its foreign commitments,close all its overseas bases etc. Would chaos and war ensue or would those territories wake up and organise themselves? I’m not clever so I can’t say but I do need to help my sons decide where their best future is. Could it be the U.S. Its possible but I think Australia and Canada look more promising long term.
Don’t write us off yet. It seems like the whole fate of the world is resting on the shoulders of American conservative voters. We might just fool ya’.
Not “fool” — surprise.
My highly unscientific survey of the ratio of bumper stickers in the parking lot at my place of work today, compared to 2008, tells me that although he won’t carry CA, Mr. Romney will get a surprising number of votes here.
Surprise, indeed! /tips hat
Being an American who has lived in Europe for the past 10 years, I just want to throw my own 2 cents worth in here.
First, Europe is not as monolithic an entity as many Americans think. I believe Mr. Ledeen’s observations to be generally correct in regards to Western Europe, but East-Central Europe is another matter entirely. If one looks at the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland (for example) one will see different attitudes and outlooks than among the Western European countries. Having been under oppressive forms of statist tyranny within recent memory, they tend to be less keen on the idea of “an ever closer union”. The countries of the region were eager to join the EU originally, but it is my belief that it was more out of an urge to be seen as casting away their perjorative “Eastern” designation than anything else. There is a definite re-thinking of the whole project taking place at the moment, in my opinion.
Second, one must realize that “Europeans” generally get almost all their information regarding America from pop-culture outlets. Having taught for a decade in Hungary, I can report that the most common question I get from someone upon finding out that I am an American is “have you ever met a celebrity?”. The most popular programs are “Sex and the City”, “Desperate Housewives” and other such drivel. I have never watched these programs, but one may imagine the invidious leftism that is inserted into these programs. There is no Fox News in Europe, the only English language news comes from CNN Europe or the BBC World Service. One may imagine what kind of worldview would be shaped while listening exclusively to those outlets. In addition, the native language news outlets tend to be, just as their American counter-parts, left leaning and fans of the European project.
In short, some discretion is required when looking at Europe and Europeans. Please remember that Polish, Hungarian and Czech troops were in Iraq and Afghanistan, and all of them have taken casualties. Also, Obama has been busy selling out East-Central Europe over everything from missle defense to energy. We get the vast majority of our heating oil from Russia, so if the USA won’t back up their friends in the region that will become more and more of a problem. Hopefully a Romney administration will be able to come up with a policy that can take advantage of the possibilities in the region for the benifit of all parties involved.
You’re completey right. I was reading the article from a Western European position.
That is very encouraging! See my post above about what the unshackling of (some of) Europe would do for freedom-loving Americans. I need to schedule a trip to Hungary and the Czech Republic … and soon!
De minden magyar tudnak ahogy “16 tonna, fekete szen” a rege Magyarorszag es is az uj. Jobb a Lengyelek, de a Magyarorszag egy hihetetlen fekete-leves ma, tegnap, es mindig.
I agree with you regarding the Poles, however. If there’s hope for Europe, it lies with the Poles.
Don’t forget Vaclav Klaus, perhaps the closest thing to a true statesman amongst all the heads of state and government in the whole of Europe at the moment.
“But as you know, every Hungarian ’16 tons of black coal’ Tale of Hungary and the new. Better for the Poles, but Hungary is an incredible black soup today, yesterday, and always.”
???
I think Google lost something in the translation…
As I tell my students who try to cut corners, never use Google translation tools. It always comes up with pure driviel, and some pretty strange drivel at that.
I am not quite sure I get the exact point of Russ in Texas, but I think I get his general idea. I loosely translate it to mean “Every Hungarian knows about ’16 tons of black coal’; the new Hungary is the same as the old. The Poles are better, but Hungary has incredible coffee yesterday, today and always.” ’16 tonna fekete szén’ is a song by the Hungarian band ‘Republic’, and it is has roughly the same general theme of the Tennessee Ernie Ford song,’You load 16 tons, and what do you get/another day older and deeper in debt’. “fekete-leves” translates literally to “black-soup” which is the name that Hungarians gave to coffee when it was first introduced to them by the Turks in the 16th century.
I take it to mean that “No matter what happens, things in Hungary will always be the same (ie. screwed up). The Poles are better except for the coffee, which is incredible.” Although I have great admiration for Polish cuisine and Polish women, I would have to rate the Hungarians slightly ahead on both those accounts as well (full disclosure…my wife is Hungarian).
@Michael
“—confirms my pessimism about your future.”
Your pessimisim is well placed. I get asked by colleagues, as an expat, about the US election every time it rolls around and they are all Clinton-Gore-Kerry-Obama supporters. They cannot fanthom anyone not supporting the dem ticket. Republican = cowboy (Reagan, Bush) is their only understanding of the other party. Should have seen it here in 2004– the emotional collapse, from the boardroom to the bar, was something to behold.
Mark Steyn is propably the only writer who I’ve read that correctly touches on the demographic issues in Europe. The economic future of Europe will look like Greece and even if some people want to change course, there will be violent backlashes to the needed changes. It’s going to get ineresting when the money finally runs out.
Further the demographic issues, I just read this:
Belgian Islamists Vow Sharia State After Election Win…http://weaselzippers.us/2012/11/01/belgian-islamists-vow-sharia-state-after-election-win/
Mark Steyn is a prophet.
If Mark Steyn is a prophet (and I believe he is in this regard), then he should counter charge Michael Mann for blasphemy. The Obama administration has already made it clear that they will not countenance any prophet bashing in their baliwick.
“..Michael Mann for blasphemy.”
Ah yes, the fabulist Michael Mann. Although he was exonerated in the investigation lead by, yet retired, Penn State President, Mr. Spanier, and he still clings to his “hockey stick” graph.
Mr. Spanier was justed charged with Perjury and Endangering Children in Jerry Sandusky Case and is possibly facing 39 years in prison.
Dear Mr. Ledeen,
I think your observations are valid. I happen to be one of the few who are for Romney. Jay Nordlinger on NRO has all the reasons listed up. One of the most important reasons is the first one: Romney is a decent man.
Nobody can see this here, as part of the media keeps telling them that business is evil, and that Romney’s too well-to-do. Their brains over here are full of some kind of envious glue telling them that it is the rich that give them trouble, although it’s the same that give them work. They can’t figure it out any more. They think they have entitlements for free schools, free medecine, free anything as human rights. Some even desire a basic income without work, a guaranteed income, just like that. And they think that socialists make them more thriving and better off although socialism pours money only into bigger government.
Then there is a considerable part in Europe who 1) had no feeling whatsoever for the Iranian opposition beaten on the streets and 2) is completely out of touch with Israel and in parts anti-Semitic.
And, as Over50 mentions in comment 10, some don’t care about a thriving, prosperous, free and leading America. Many are outright anti-American. So you can see very well here in Europe to which instincts O. appeals, and that’s frightening, and the American Jews should look into that more thoroughly.
Wish you all luck on Tuesday. Will pray for Mitt Romney. Take care.
I don’t know how you do it Dany. I’m glad you took the time here and the sharing of values. Will pray for you too…
Hi, Mr Ledeen, it’s me again. Pls don’t think I’m stalking you, it’s just that I love PJ. Hopefully, in the next few years, we in India will have a lot more of new media coming out of the West instead of just CNN and BBC. Imagine, the cable networks in India don’t even bother to provide Fox News.
Yeah, Europe’s is a sad case. In Italy nowadays, they jail seismologists for not being able to predict earthquakes. In Britain, the Economist has just re-endorsed Obama, this time with the specious excuse that better the devil you know (Obama) than the devil you don’t (Romney). Old Baghehot must be turning in his grave.
Yet, Europe is a continent. The northerners (esp the Norwegians) must be held to a different standard than the easterners, like the Poles. Britain, of course, is a lost cause, where Sharia will gradually replace common law.
The only country left standing is Germany.
Also, Mr Ledeen, one might have found the answer to why the InTrade odds so favour Obama. After all, InTrade is an European-based internet gambling organisation.
Mustn’t discount the populations in each of the countries of Europe outside Great Britain. Norway an oil nation has a population of fewer than 25 million people. Ditto all those in northern Europe except Germany. That northern bloc incidentally the richest European countries.
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland together the most populous and poorer nations. North and South brought together as the EEC to be EU to be United States of Europe. Not including the nations of Eastern Europe recently joined. Sound familiar?
The putative aim to prevent further continental wars. But they would say that wouldn’t they? On the template of the United Nations?
The cost to the citizens of the various nations to be surrender of their sovereignty voluntarily or otherwise (referenda for Maastricht Treaty discounted when the treaty rejected) to a New Age Empire controlled by their self-appointed, self-propagating, incestuous “elite” from Brussels, Strasbourg and The Hague.
To replace those of their fathers lost with “the guns of August”. The poorer nations no fools they “eating the rich”.
Just as the hierarchy of the “Democratic Party” of the USA work to fundamentally tranform the Dream of the Founding Fathers of a nation of self-governng citizens with a government with only limited powers to the “Dream From Their Fathers” of a nation controlled by a central Court of self-appointed, self-propagating, incestuous “elite” in Washington, New York and California. Abrogating thereby the Constitutional and lawful limits of among others Articles IX and X on which this nation stands. Or falls.
Interestingly if I’ve got it right, administrators and engineers of these plans pay no national taxes. Just as the hierarchy of the “Democratic Party”, eg Kennedys, Clintons and Obamas (how about N.Pelosi, H.Reid, John Edwards and Kerry?)rely on tax havens wherever. The compassionate liberals with their championship of the poor. Paid for “with other people’s money”.
Any surprise members of the international brotherhood in propaganda, academia and higher echelons of influence in the entire West prefer ANY “democratic” president or candidate. Remember these are the propagators of polls.
Those arrogant upstart Yanks with their Founding Fathers principles that took them from an outpost of the British Empire to the most powerful and richest nation in the history of the world – and to which continentals/Europeans are indebted in a number of ways – must be taken down a peg or two.
From all the evidence within living memory the people who can and WILL do that are the hierarchy of their “Democratic Party”. So three cheers for ANY “democratic” president. Along the lines of “no good deed goes unpunished”.
Misery loves company.
Does this same reasoning apply to australia (90% for obama), canada (88%), south korea, japan (still 86%) and so on?
In fact, the only country NOT responding with overwhelming support for obama was israel.
The BBC ran a poll which returned slightly less pro-obama results, but also polled a bunch of other countries (albeit allowing for “don’t knows” that bring the totals way down for a lot of asian countries).
http://www.mediaite.com/online/obama-vastly-preferred-over-romney-internationally-bbc-poll-says/
Your problem isn’t that europe prefers obama. It’s that the WORLD supports obama. Overwhelmingly.
It’s self-evident that the media informed world “overwhelmingly” supports a diminished USofA.
0bama is the change agent that people who prefer being coddled subjects have long been told they’ve been waiting for, so it’s not particularly surprising that they love him – to death. When our lightworker in chief isn’t bowing to kings, scraping for tyrants, and feting maximum leadership councils between golf excursions, he either explicitly spends American blood and treasure doing their zero-sum bidding, or he compels “America” to stay out of the way while our betters do what they will to their subjects. This usually involves screw-like devices soaked in bullsh!t and gore.
Liberty, and the responsibilities that go with it, are the mote and the beam in their collective eyes.
I can’t even begin to count how often I’ve had to endure my self-described [Übermensch] betters bloviating endlessly on how those “ignorant” “racist” “Americans” know nothing of the wider world’s greatness and social achievements, yet these apparently “overwhelmingly” 0bamacentric world citizens of euro-peon descent -who’ve never (Gaia forbid!) had so much as a swarthy premier- essentially get the bulk of their info about Americans through their propaganda ministries and state-sponsored intellectual aristocrats…Supplemented by satellite/fibreoptic feeds from our leftist media export industry; as repackaged by our statist intellectual wannabe aristocrat importer class with their noses firmly glued to the authoritative pulse of the world’s posterior scrotal nerve. Which is to say: If the nation of cowboys where really as violent as claimed, you’d all have black eyes to go along with your bleeding black hearts.
Which brings to mind my main criticism of US citizens (as opposed to 0bama’s fawning subjects): Americans are far too charitable to, and tolerant of, the nihilistic ingrates and self-selecting morons in their midst. They turn their cheeks when they should be upending money-changer tables and chasing the whole lot out of their various temples.
That’s because the rest of the world equates Obama with the Americans settling down to a big plate of humble pie. The rest of the world hates and despises America, so naturally they prefer anything that would result in us being cut down to size, so to speak.
Wow. To an outsider (I’m australian), both of those comments say absolutely nothing about the rest of world, and way way too much about your own insecurities.
No, the sensible parts of the world (i.e. the wealthy bits, like the ones I mentioned) do not want to see a “diminished” america.
monkeyfan – I do wonder where you find these people. Angry students might like to have a whinge about america, but it’s pretty much always about military meddling, not this rubbish about “ubermesch”. I suggest that you’ve made that up.
MissAnthropy – if it’s between america and “the rest of the world”, you’ve lost. Really. 7-odd billion versus 300 million. If that was really how things worked, the world would be a different place. Again, your response says a lot about your own nationalist insecurities and nothing about the rest of the world.
australia is much better, much much better.
Sarcasm noted.
Again, that’s everything to do with what you think and nothing to do with what anyone else thinks.
This whole thread strikes me as a bunch of americans projecting their own insecurity.
I’m neither American nor a US citizen…Not even a resident of North America.
And I don’t make sh!t up.
I notice that you don’t even attempt to answer any critique of your appeal to media authority.
BTW, Übermensch fits quite well as a descriptor of a particularly informed folk who adore 0bama.
There was a “critique of my appeal to media authority” in that lot? Ok.
I’m not sure what appeal to authority I’m guilty of. I was supplying another poll that included some countries that the Pew poll hadn’t covered – I thought it was relevant, because in 2004/2008 the polls in S/E asian countries tended to support the conservative candidate (if they’d included places like the philippines and thailand we might have seen some pro-romney results).
I wasn’t making out that the BBC was any kind of authority. They just happened to have a similar poll, which was showing very similar results to the one that this thread is “appealing to”.
And, given that you’re all sticking the boot into the rest of the world for not seeing things your way, I don’t think it’s inappropriate that I say something. I noticed that Michael left Australia out of his explanation – and while we’re slightly to the left of the US in our politics (most countries are), we’re hardly a bunch of commies and we’re clearly not going down the tubes socially or economically.
“Your problem isn’t that europe prefers obama. It’s that the WORLD supports obama. Overwhelmingly.”
If so, which I doubt first because of your commonplace and grandiose claim as to what the Whole! “World” thinks, often used as a propaganda tactic and made nearly exclusively against the U.S., then what you should be saying at best, if you are indeed relying on polls, is that the rest of the World overwhelmingly prefers Obama.
But I’m still not going to disparage the rest of the world just because you yourself are most likely either only another “throwback” Totalitarian Master wannabe or else perfect fodder for the same, desperately trying to achieve your sickly definition of “meaning in life” = Deathworshipping.
Oh, alright. Let’s see how tuesday’s poll comes out – maybe I can say “the whole world”. We’ll see.
In the same sense that michael was referring to “europe”, I was simply pointing at poll results that say the same thing about the “rest” of the world.
Based on the poll results that michael linked to, there is one country that overtly supports romney – israel. The next in line for its support of romney is (oddly enough) pakistan. Maybe they’re still ticked off about that whole bin laden thing.
Why are you guys so darn quick to appeal to godwins? Why does it have to be that everyone who disagrees with you is some neo-hitler or hates humanity? Do you actually BELIEVE the stuff you write?
yes i think they do. in any event i always assume they do, because, speaking as an historian, it’s noteworthy how often they do….
I’m still trying to figure out how you’d make the leap from my “…self-described [Übermensch] betters bloviating endlessly on how those “ignorant” “racist” “Americans” know nothing of the wider world’s greatness and social achievements…”, to your; “…darn quick to appeal to godwins (sic)“.
Maybe it’s my followup to your dodge on appeals to authority wherein I replied; “BTW, Übermensch fits quite well as a descriptor of a particularly informed folk who adore 0bama”.
Lord forbid I should use a *gasp* German word that illustrates the self-conception of a bunch of folk who believe they’re superior in every way to those bitter-clinging racist K-Mart Cowboys who they deserve to rule over…For their own good…As informed by folk who believe the same thing.
Good luck with that.
Hopefully they’ll sup on their salty tears come tomorrow evening.
What surprises me to most reactions here, as a European, is that most people tend to think that people here pay that much attention to the US presidential race.
Of course most people would vote for Obama, as they have heard his name before. I think it’s more a matter of name recognition linked with the tendency of our media to irrationally support Obama than real support. Most of the support for Obama is from people who wouldn’t even get out to vote anyway.
Sarbo, whats the deal with Norway,its rich,little debt and very pleasant? They all speak English with an american accent as well!
Britain isn’t all going to be Muslim but you are right there will be areas soon where they will have a majority.As these areas become “vibrant” those who wish to live among their own race move to expensive areas which in turn puts up the prices. Where I live a small 3 bed house is £350,000+.The result will be a voluntary apartheid with little contact between races, a bit like……….the U.S. The only way round this is to start breeding more non-muslims. Shall we ban contraception or all go Catholic?
Eric. R,
you hate the English a lot more than they hate Israel. Mostly the English don’t care about Israel or the Palestinians very much. Being a supporter of Israel is a thankless task here because people like you are always lecturing us about how evil our ancestors were.The BBC is biased against Israel because it is successful and competent rather than a dusty ****hole like the rest of the region. You should take it as a compliment. If they support you you know you are really ******.
“The BBC is biased against Israel because it is successful and competent rather than a dusty ****hole like the rest of the region. You should take it as a compliment. If they support you you know you are really ******.”
I love it. I’m sure you are right. By the same logic, the Beeb hate America even more, which they surely do.
Well,I am exaggerating but don’t forget it’s not that long ago that Israel was a left-wing cause.The six-day war changed all that. But don’t make the mistake of thinking the BBC view is mainstream. After all everyone else in the country seemed to know Jimmy Saville was a creepy pervert.
Maybe you can’t see how odd Romney looks from abroad. Like a hair dye advert actor or TV evangelist. I am not saying he isn’t great it’s just that he looks a bit fake somehow. If he was actually shown speaking over here then it might make a difference.
It always amazed me how liberal types over here totally swallowed the Bush cowboy image without bothering to look into his academic background and family history. They don’t let dumb cowboys fly F-105′s or complete MBA’s but every slip he made was replayed over and over whereas Obama’s many idiotic statements are never newsworthy.
“I am not saying he isn’t great it’s just that he looks a bit fake somehow”. Do you realize, Daavid, old boy, how stupid you sound?
well I’m no intellectual as I am obviously failing to communicate my point which is not to criticise Mitt Romney but the manner in which he is presented over here.
In defense of David, I was slow to warm to Romney for the same reason. At first glance he appeared too slick, too polished, and plastic.
I had only seen a few photos and read small bytes of info prepared by the MSM. It was only after my first (two) picks in the Republican primary fell by the wayside that I took a good look at Romney. I was surprised by what I saw, pleasantly so. About a month ago I came to the conclusion that he should have been my first choice all along, and that he is a candidate that I am excited to support and not just someone to replace Obama. It took me a while to get there, so again, I understand the point David is making.
davidstanley
What’s the deal with Norway? Well, let me count. It’s a whaling nation. That’s fine with Greenpeace … Japan is the true villain.
It’s the nation which added a Nordic word to the English language after a 1500 year hiatus … quisling.
Well, mostly, Alfred Nobel should climb out of his grave and remove the Nobel Peace Prize out of the hands of Norwegian politicians and give it to the Swedish Academies.
That, mostly, is the deal.
Hey, let’s be fair – Norway also gave us the word “f**K”, from the old Nordic “fok”, meaning to beat or to strike.
So having said that, Norway can go fok itself….
“you hate the English a lot more than they hate Israel. Mostly the English don’t care about Israel or the Palestinians very much. ”
Even what is considered “pro-Israel” by British standards, such as the Telegraph, would not be considered pro-Israel in America. Melanie Philips’ view on the Middle East would be mainstream in the USA. In Britain, her passioned defense against a second Holocaust gets her branded a paranoid extremist.
This is the same Britain that expelled Jews for 365 years; shut off Israel prior to the war to those fleeing Hitler and kept it shut after the Holocaust, that armed Transjordan to hopefully finish off the Jews, and unlike France, has never, ever had a period in which it was an ally and arms supplier to the Jewish state. Your nation is like Lawrence of Arabia – in love with those buggering Bedouins and to hell with us lowly filthy Jews.
thanks for proving my point Eric
The truth hurts, doesn’t it….Herr Stanley.
Going way, way back… Europeans always ‘vote’ for a sitting American president — even if he’s not running for re-election. (!)
So the ‘poll’ is a joke.
BTW, because of the mechanics behind Bretton Woods Europeans DO pay for America’s defense budget — by way of unlimited acceptance of newly minted American currency — which stays in their hands F O R E V E R.
If you add up this cash flow over the years you reach the startling conclusion that the rest of the planet funds the US Department of Defense — to include our adversaries.
Putin is fully aware of this phenomenon — which plainly eludes you, and most sophisticated Americans.
Netting it all out: America Exports its defense product to earn its way in the world.
Without Pax Americana NO ONE will be interested in adding to their US Dollar holdings.
Britain, in the post WWII era, discovered the hard way that the more they cut back the Royal Navy the less funding available. Without her flag on far shores — all of her prior gilts came back to London in a flood.
This phenomena is to be viciously repeated by 0bama. Defense budget cutbacks won’t save any money at all. For, when spent, most outlays are taxed right back to the Treasury at high income tax rates. This is in total contrast to welfare in all its forms and Social Security. These outlays generate essentially no counter-flow taxation at all.
So, when the sequester hits, Defense cuts just don’t work: revenue drops and bond flotations dry up/ the currency weakens drastically in foreign trade.
I read the German media. Two points:
1. You have to understand that they can root for Obama and at the same time write long, gloating articles about American decline. Of which there are many. They can compartmentalize because don´t care whether Obama is actually good for America.
2. Of course the German media – and I´m sure this goes for foreign media in general – are very receptive to the biased message from the left-wing American media. If you are a foreign correspondent in Washington, who do you talk to? Liberals. All the time. No German has ever heard about any problems with the Obama administration – debt, unemployment, corruption, civil rights, cronyism, Fast & Furious, Benghazi, voter fraud. Even if they cared somewhat about the US, as as far as they are concerned, all bad things happened under Bush, and all the bad Americans are Republicans.
The liberal view of American has been sold abroad. Even anti-Americanism is an American export.
Re your first point, I don’t see it as an instance of “compartmentalizing” information. Their gloating over the decline of America and their support for Obama are both accounted for by one simple explanation: they do not wish us well. That’s true of Europeans in general, more or less.
The liberal view of America has been sold abroad. Even anti-Americanism is an American export.
This is so true, and so sad as well.
In 2000 I was in grad school and spent a semester in Ireland, which included an internship in the Irish Parliament. Bill Clinton was pretty much a hero in Ireland, due to his involvement in the Northern Ireland peace process, and he came for a visit while I was there. I was offered a chance to meet him when he came to Lienster House, but I declined the ‘priviledge’. I didn’t make a big deal out of it, I begged off by claiming that since I went to a university in DC, I could see him any day if I wanted to. I specifically tried to avoid saying anything that might be percieved as disparaging to the President of the United States to foriegners, in a foriegn country (even though I grew up in the same house as my Irish grandfather, so it really didn’t seem that foriegn to me).
I was also in Ireland during the infamous 2000 general election, and tried to keep my commentary basically on the neutral side during the whole unfolding fiasco. There were several other American students involved in the programe I was in, a lot of them were from Massachusetts (Bosten College I believe). Most of them seemed to relish denigrating George Bush and Republicans in general to whomever they could get to listen to them.
I think this is a pretty common difference between ‘Progressives’ and Conservatives. The left has no compunction running down America and its leaders to the whole world, while Conservatives believe that it is an internal matter to be discussed amongst Americans, but we will not put our dirty laundry out in public.
For the past 4 years I have had to studiously guard against letting my personal disdain for Barack Obama as a human being and as a ‘leader’ come out in public. When my students asked me who I thought would win the election, I told them I thought Romney would, but I stuck to an analysis which concentrated on economic factors and historical trends. I said nothing about him being a ‘Constitution-shredding, feckless, dishonest, anti-American exceptionalism, etc., etc.’ jackass. I have no doubt that a liberal in my place would be much more likely to have used his position to run down Romney and Republicans.
I have a similar experience to Michael’s. I arrived in London from Israel in the 1970s, and was captivated by the culture. In the University of London I was taught never to trust established theories but rather examine the facts and form my own opinion. Apparently, this is no longer so. A relative of mine attended the same university recently, and encountered group thinking and intolerance of independent opinion; the exact opposite of my experience a mere thirty-something years previously.
I finally came to an understanding of some Europeans’ attitudes about American during G.W. Bush’s term. Some Germans I talked with were trying to express their disdain for Bush and his response to 9/11, and the best way they could express it was to say “Bush is a cowboy.”
What they could not grasp is that Americans grow up loving and admiring cowboys. “Cowboy” is not a slur to us, but a compliment. I don’t know what a comparable Western European compliment would be–”assistant department head”, “chief procurement officer” perhaps?
Good point Andrew. In Britain the translation might be herdsman or agricultural labourer but what they really mean is a loose gun. I posted about this above but you see Americans have a reputation for overkill and excessive use of ordnance. Whether or not this is justified is irrelevant. They want to fit him to the stereotype. It’s a way of feeling superior without having to actually do anything. Hence the regretable British habit of lecturing Americans about how great we are at “heart and minds” in a military operation when in fact our forces are now so small it is all we have to offer.
Also over here crooked or bad tradesmen are known as Cowboys.
We still secretly want to be Clint though!
I was in Frankfurt on 9/11 and some of my hand-wringing colleagues asked what I thought the US response was going to be. I told them it will be war. They were more perplexed and worried about America’s resposne than the fact that 3,000 people were just murdered.
Some countries don’t need leaders, just shepherds.
Yes but you don’t really want the Germans to get into war again do you?
Good point. It has never ended well.
I dunno … I can get behind the results of the Franco-Prussian War.
Western Europe is stagnant and slowly deteriorating. They’ve always looked down their noses on Americans; regarded us with disdain. But, of course, they were only too happy to permit us to save their asses during the two world wars. And eagerly accepted our dollars to rebuild. And took for granted that we would protect them from being overrun by communism. At least Central and Eastern Europe shows signs of life. The candle symbolizing Western European culture is flickering and soon there will be darkness as Islam spreads over the continent. Olly Okbar. The Pacific is the future, the Atlantic is the past.
Carla, it’s true that many Europeans look down on Americans but it tends not to be the working class or self-employed artisans like myself. I think we feel a lot in common. It’s more the over educated elite who feel the need to show their superiority. Lots of British visit the U.S. but relatively few university lecturers or social workers I expect. I have been to Tennessee,Washington,Wyoming,Oregon, New York,Florida,Mass etc and always had a good time with friendly people. I certainly don’t feel superior to them.
If you read your own words you might see that you are yourself expressing contempt for Europeans.
“If you read your own words you might see that you are yourself expressing contempt for Europeans.”
As well she should.
Ledeen writes as if Europe is a country, as if one could explain British history purely by studying German history! You have not defended Britain with your troops or tax dollars-on the contrary, you beg us to fight in your wars and the only thanks we get is abuse from you. Britain subsidizes American power by being one of the largest holders of your debt. Britain sadly has its share of authoritarians but in some regards our government has less power over its citizens than the US federal government has over Americans.
But what properly irritates me about this pompous Ledeen fellow is that if I criticized Ledeen because of some article in the NYT he would say “America is a complex country -don’t judge me by the ramblings of a simple leftist” ,but he trashes all British people because of the BBC. Ledeen ,you are a typical Anglophobe-I don’t like you but I don’t use your low personality to damn all Jewish Americans. Grow up.
We have heard about Germany’s renewable energy. Renewable energy = blackouts.
And ain’t it funny that you kraut bastards don’t even trust YOURSELVES with “military might” again, yet. It means you are still in subhuman status, dude. Wake up.
‘You haven’t defended Britain with your troops or dollars……….Britain subsidizes American power………….?’ Hmmm. Apparently the state of British public education is even worse than ours. Britain has devolved into a shabby country. London is now Disney World for the sheiks. A stiff upper lip just doesn’t cut it anymore.
Luke Sanmpson (sic): Not worth spending much time on him, but this painful luke dude is instructive:
You have not defended Britain with your troops or tax dollars
Good, then you won’t miss Mildenhall or Fylingdales; or the US hardware and expertise scattered around your not-so-sharp GCHQ installations; or the American techs that keep the 20th century avionics in your crappy planes up and running; and just about manage to keep afloat your threadbare coastal ‘defense force’ (quondam Royal Navy, with its 18 ships and 47 admirals, soon to be smaller and worse than the Dutch navy and already a synonym for ‘cheap toxic plastic that burns well’). And you won’t notice a thing when you’re cut out of the loop and nobody picks up the phone. …Or maybe you meant Iraq and the salad days of your poodle Blair, he of the ball-crushing jeans and ‘authentic Texan’ swagger — now there’s a target-rich environment, don’t go there.
Britain subsidizes American power by being one of the largest holders of your debt.
In reality, a dismal and weakening third, way behind China and Japan, done not from altruism but because Britain has no choice but to diversify, urgent after the great British visionary Gordon Brown flogged off your gold reserves at $300/oz; by comparison, Frogs have about 2500 tons, Krauts about 3500 tons, Limeys…er…zip. You could leave tomorrow (actually, sit on your hands at the next auction) and nobody in the US would notice or care.
he trashes all British people because of the BBC
No, not because of the BBC — though let’s concede Matt Frei, Dimblebore and Paxman all have a special place at the bottom of the barrel — but because the hapless pussy-whipped British public put up with the BBC and always will. But then, as the three remaining holdout Anglophiles learned during the Olympics, you’re also all proud and dewy-eyed about your NHS slaughterhouses. R-i-g-h-t.
One could easily go on, as they say — next would be skimpy figleafs and the standard-issue British anti-semitism — but you get the point.
Europeans get their information about the United States primarily from the mainstream media, which has become nothing more than the Obama’s Bureau of Propaganda. They cheer, they salivate they get teary-eyed over every magnificent deed or word that comes out of his mouth. What else could we expect?
I recently returned from Europe (Austria and Hungary). My experience there was the same as it has been in the past in other countries: Whenever someone asks me where I’m from, and they find out it’s the United States (especially New York), their reaction is one of two extremes: either they’re very interested and pleased, or a rude kind of sour snarl comes over their faces immediately. There’s no middle ground. I know this is not a scientific observation, but it’s been my experience and I find it significant. Luckily, the latter reaction is not as common as the former.
But it tells me that many Europeans are still laboring under the delusion that they don’t need the United States and that we’re nothing but backwards, boorish louts. To which I say, if we decided to abolish NATO that attitude would evaporate quickly as soon as Russia and Iran began flexing their muscles a bit more. The idea that we’re uncultured louts is refuted by the fact that American music and movies and other fashions are extremely popular in Europe. Can you think of the last time a German or Italian song or movie was famous in America? The Europeans eat our culture up and then pretend it’s beneath them.
Nevertheless, I’d say 90% of the Europeans I meet are just normal people who are as interested in American as I am in their country, but I believe Michael still makes excellent points in his letter.
I too think of Europe as a museum. It is full of great history and great history of culture. There you can visit Greece and see where democracy was first born, and, coincidentally, where democracy will very likely first be euthanized.
Periodically America’s nobler spirits succumb to the urge to imitate Europe, and we decline, but it is good to remember that we have emerged from those declines. As recently as the 1970′s America’s economy and its position in the world fell into a slump. Elites said that the future belonged to competitors like Japan, with their corporatist cultures. But then we chose as our leader Ronald Reagan, who managed to restore just a bit of the liberty which has been our dynamo. Within a decade, America’s position was restored, to the point where fretful Europeans expressed fear of the American “hyperpower”. In the past four years we have seen how badly America’s position can be eroded, but the experience and the know-how exist to be able to set things right.
Memo To: M. Ledeen
Subject: Letter to my European Friends
They aren’t your friends.
Honestly I was gonna post him a quip on that but he’s above it. I do wish people here would grasp the significance of a substantial European indifference, even callous disregard for our well being.
Mr. Ledeen, you may want to add Canadians to your headline.
As far as I can tell, the MSM here in Canada are almost all in favour of four more years of Obama and dismissive of Romney. Given that the average Canadian tends not to follow US politics that closely and gets most of his/her information from our MSM – which is very much like YOUR MSM in its attitudes – I can only assume that most Canadians want Obama to get a second term.
In other words, our MSM is in the tank for Obama just as yours is. Since most Canadians are getting most of their information either from our MSM (which presumably gets it from yours) or directly from your MSM, they tend to think Obama is just fine and that Romney is just another Bible-thumping right wing fanatic who needs to lose the election.
Here’s a new article about the US election in Canada’s National Post, one of the major national newspapers:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/02/the-big-picture-guide-to-the-u-s-election-for-canadians/
As you can see from both the article and the comments, it’s heavily skewed toward the Democrats.
It’s a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world.
I don’t know if this is helpful, but it’s illustrative of differences. In the mid-90′s the company that I worked for was bought by a German conglomerate. We were visited by numerous officials from Germany. They knew nothing, really, of our methods, philosophies, laws, etc. One mid-level Manager engaged me in a long discussion on employment-at-will and simply could not believe that I could be fired at any time. She asked me how I could sleep at night, knowing that I could be unemployed the next day. I laughed and said that I always thought that the company needed me more than I needed them, and that I kept my skills and abilities at a level that I could get another job immediately. She was astounded at this attitude. She was in a “union” of managers and had “protection” from dismissal, but she also was on a contract that prohibited her from leaving her job. This only one substantial difference in outlook along the lines of individual responsibility.
You’re quite correct in pointing out this culture clash.
It’s beyond Europeans’ understanding…..their thought processes. Europe has been an absorbent sponge sucking on United States Dollars ever since the Marshall Plan…..that long forgotten Marshall Plan. “Trade” a subliminal afterthought.
You’re welcome, Europe…(repeating my sentiment posted nearby).
europe will succumb to civilisational jihad. coming soon too
Don’t underestimate Europe. Stick to Iran bashing. You wouldn’t want to be remembered as having been wrong on both…
Only allies of the mullahs and idiots believe Mr. Ledeen is wrong on Iran.
Nothing would be nicer than to be proved wrong on both counts–I don’t know about Ledeen, but looking a trifle foolish would be a small price to pay. Unfortunately, wishful pining for such outcomes is no fit guide for conducting oneself, or the strategies of one’s country.
Here’s a thought pasted from Mr Ledeen’s article which should be broadcast:
….” Europeans seem to me to have abdicated their liberties to their governments, provided that the governments provide them with an easy life, replete with free medical care, plenty of vacations, and no international obligations. Surely you know that very few of your tax euros go towards your defense. We have been paying that bill for decades, and our soldiers and military power have been protecting you.”
You’re welcome, Europe.
If it were up to me, our military and soldiers protecting you would end right now….you’ve permitted your resident, ingratiating Muslims to infiltrate and penetrate your countries despite our protective umbrella……again……right under our protective umbrella.
You Europeans have become dhimmis…..but that’s another topic.
In a normal world, where people are not well informed, the split would be about 50/50. In the USA is appears the people that best understand American politics, prefer Romney by at least 5% and probably 10%.
The question should be , why, does the rest of the world prefer Obama.
The rest of the world, gets their information from their respective press.
Since the press around the world is very liberal and want to see the demise of the USA, the world supports the liberal.
The fact that the least informed, supports Obama says nothing about the populace, but speaks volumes about their respective press.
My wife and I took a Northern European/Russia trip in 2008. Every “local” we spoke to got their view of the US from the BBC. Our guide in St. Petersburg, who we spent two full days with, was a lecturer at the University there. She had fantastical ideas of life in the US….food being extremely expensive, shortages of vegetables and fruit, half the people being foreclosed on and huge numbers of homeless, everyone going about armed, and more. We explained to her that she was misinformed in all these areas, and gave her examples from our own lives, as well as statistics. I’m sure she didn’t believe a word we said. I told her that her beliefs were as if I had said that all Russians were alcoholics and gangsters. That at least got her attention.
I agree with Mike, and with similiar posts prior.
Many here believe, as do I, that the MSM distorts the picture of daily American life.
It logically follows that the MSM, both here and in Europe, distorts the picture of daily European life. I mean that in both regards.
American media consumers get a distorted view of ourselves AND Europe. European media consumers get a distorted view of themselves AND America.
As I have remarked to many fools over the years, as they attempted to appear erudite and civilized by saying that we should be more like Europe: This country exists because we do not want to be Europe. If you want to live in a country like Europe, go there.
I’d be willing to bet that the main thing – maybe the ONLY thing – Europeans in general like about Obama is that his foreign policy is passive, not aggressive. He believes America should be the world leader in not leading. In fact, he’d rather see us follow.
Europe’s only has one chance to get out of the rut it is in. More people need to give more credence to Daniel Hannan, and others who simply see the Brussels experiment for what it is – something that started with hope, and the best of intentions, and then it went off the rails.
Otherwise, it will condemn itself to ever weakening geopolitical strength.
It saddens me that someone as savvy as Mr Ledeen – and a lot of others here – do not recognise that the European MSM are as left/socialist as the corrupt MSM in the USA, and have been for a rather long time.
So with all that propaganda for Obama since 2007 across the continent, and with all the propaganda against Pres Bush since 2001 – what do you expect people to say?
Add to this the news coming from your MSM, which are regurgitated over here, and add that hardly any of the ‘Foreign Corespondents’ are even looking at the New Media, and you have waal-to-wall Obama propaganda which certainly influences what people think.
And please don’t forget that the BBC is called ‘Biased’ BBC for a very good reason.
There are many of us, certainly here in the UK, who have been and are working hard against that mindset, and are working hard to get us out of the EU.
It would be great if you at PJM could give space to some of us who have been working their socks off to battle against that mindset.
I would love to see more European conservatives, especially those in the Anglosphere, commenting here. A greater interconnectedness with the like-minded worldwide is what needs to happen. Strength in numbers.
Strength? More like hot air, sparrowfart and silly grins. Time for Europeans to shut up then put up. Then, maybe, we’ll talk. Meanwhile we have better allies elsewhere and have no need for pious lightweights. As ever, there are one or two honorable exceptions (e.g., Nigel Farage)– but not many.
Who are these “better allies?” And really, a worldwide network of conservative voices doesn’t interest you? Isn’t that what attracts you here at pjmedia albeit on a small scale? Unless, of course, you’re not conservative and just trolling for reactions. I see you here a lot–can’t figure you out.
Japan, probably India, assorted EU and SA countries and a smorgasbord of EMs. I’ve read and admire Robert Conquest, but the world moved on after he coined the word Anglosphere. You really want a New Zealand socialist or a limp-wristed whiny Limey on your six? As for the rest, let’s just say I don’t like mediocrity in any form, which includes most Republicans, nearly all Democrats and far too many Europeans. I do want Romney to win next Tues, for obvious reasons.
ok SOMBF, I get your POV, but I’m not talking about the whiny ones. There are good, solid conservatives in the UK — they need and deserve our support and I’m happy to have theirs.
Well said Grace,
I think there are some good articles by T.Dalrymple and Dan Hannan that get seen but I think Peter Hitchens could be another conservative voice who would fit.
I’d expect roughly half the country or more to start taking their media’s monolithic issuances with a grain of salt, or with outright contempt, as is the case over here. But something in the European temperament seems to keep them from ever questioning, much less gainsaying, their soi-disant “betters.” Maybe it’s natural selection: maybe the Europeans with less slavish instincts than the current crowd were disproportionately the ones who left for America.
“Surely you know that very few of your tax euros go towards your defense. We have been paying that bill for decades, and our soldiers and military power have been protecting you.”
Ain’t that the truth. The Europeans are now hard-pressed to spend even 2% of their GDP on defense. In some bankrupt countries, like Greece, it’s way lower than that. Currently, the United States spends about 4% of its GDP on defense, hardly a lot given our global commitments, but more than twice Europe’s spending.
And it shows. When NATO decided to go on its silly campaign in Libya, NATO countries like Britain, France, and Italy were unable to win without the massive early support from the United States. In fact, when Obama decided to start “leading from behind” in Libya, France and Great Britain almost couldn’t win the war with the air a naval assets they had. The worst drawback they had was the lack of large aircraft carriers to provide quick air attacks and support for the “rebels” (mostly al Qaeda militiamen). The French had one medium-sized carrier, but it was not nearly enough to wage an air war against Gaddafi. Help was still needed from American aircraft and ships, and God only knows how many CIA assets we had on the ground in Libya during the conflict. In short, that war probably couldn’t have been won without the help of the United States, or at least it would have taken the Europeans A LOT longer to win it on their own.
Which brings me back to Obama. If (God forbid) Obama is re-elected, massive sequestration cuts will hit our military. By 2016, we face the very real possibility of spending roughly 2% of our GDP on our military, the same amount the Europeans are now spending on theirs. And who says Obama doesn’t want to be more like France?
Misery loves company. That’s the REAL reason why Eurotards want Obama re-elected. They are JEALOUS of us. They have been waiting for the day when we are second place and if it takes a skinny jug-eared fraud to do it, they will cheer him over and over again. SCREW EUROPE. Anyone from there who is worth anything came here decades ago. The losers stayed behind.
I have been living in America as well as a number of European countries. It seems to me that Europe is doing remarkably well despite its buildings being somewhat older and the populace being somewhat more pampered.
As regards innovative power – the industries of Germany and Austria for instance are doing very well, thank you! (NASAs 6000 controller positions, its spacecraft etc. are using Austrian designed and built communications equipment, as do 60% of the worlds airports, for instance.)
Did I mention that Germany produces 25% of its energy using renewable ressources such as wind and sunlight? Did I explain that 90% of the innovations in the automotive industry are developed by just a handfull of European companies?
Yes, we have less of a military might, and yes, we do care for the sick and elderly if they cannot afford to do so by themselves.
But hey, it’s still a great place to live and yes, we’d love to see Obama win the elections.
Try that spiel in Greece or Spain…Even as they hungrily gobble up the rest of your design margin.
Hey Sven, love to hear back from you when the Muslim hordes get the chance to demonstrate how much they hate your culture, your name, and your country. Take your sophisticated “pose” and put it where the sun don’t shine.
“Did I mention that Germany produces 25% of its energy using renewable ressources such as wind and sunlight?”
Sources please.
Did you mention that energy consumers will be paying 13% more next year to fuel their cars, heat their homes and turn on the lights? The news here in Hessen said that a couple of nights ago.
…”we do care for the sick and elderly if they cannot afford to do so by themselves.”
By giving them minimum care and a number on a waiting list. Peddle that tripe to your kids.
Did I mention that Germany produces 25% of its energy using renewable ressources such as wind and sunlight?
Did you mention the blackouts? Did you mention that the average family’s energy bills have increased 50%?
and yes, we do care for the sick and elderly if they cannot afford to do so by themselves.
So do we. It’s our biggest expenditure, even bigger than defense (ours and yours). Heck, we even send monthly checks to the rich elderly.
and yes, we’d love to see Obama win the elections.
If you like him so much, please, take him and give him a job in Brussels ruling over you. He’ll be free in January.
I’ll give you a one-word answer to your “energy superiority complex” – VATTENFALL! LMAO.
Ok, Europe sucks. Unhappy about supposedly providing Europe with military security? Stop doing it. Stop pretending that the US is the indispensable nation, wasting money on an failing and illusory empire while the nation crumbles internally. Every dollar wasted in Germany, France, Greece, or over 500 military installations around the world, is a dollar not invested in our country. Time to end the empire.
An important reason why Europeans, like the American Left, love Obama is that supporting him helps purge them of their “racism”, or at least keeps it at bay. The Left here and abroad has invented its own pseudo-religion. Its (unholy) Trinity is messianic socialism, “diversity”, and holocaustianity. Seen from the ethnomasochistic perspective of false racial guilt, whites are the sinners, the Non-Asian Minorities are the Elect, and race racketeers like Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, and Eric Holder are the gatekeepers of salvation. White leftists profess a disgusting detestation of their past, their ancestral culture, and even their racial heritage. Martin Lawson (The Story of Christian Origins) had it right: those who profess unnatural virtues will always commit unnatural crimes.
Europeans have always been contemptuous of America. It’s only natural they would appreciate that trait in others.
But seriously, there’s another angle, I think. On the whole, Europeans considered Obama’s election to have been a long-overdue comeuppance to the racism they believe permeates our society. Like good, white liberals everywhere, their support of Obama demonstrates their superiority to the knuckle-draggers who simply won’t tolerate the idea of a black man in the White House. This amused me no end during the last election considering their colonial history and dismissive attitudes toward the minorities in their own countries. I tried to think of a person “of color” prominent in any European government. Couldn’t come up with one. (Doesn’t mean, of course, that there aren’t any, or even many.)
I have a feeling not many people have met American cowboys. I grew up and still live in the West where real cowboys live. There are some dumb ones, but there are a lot of smart ones who know more about reality than most academics who live with theory. They are the nicest bunch of people you will ever know. They just don’t take any bull when your trying to feed it to them.
I’m italian and I think those polls are a little exagerating the support of europeans for Obama, even if it’s true the majority is backing him (for sure I don’t!) for several reasons: european culture has been imbued with marxism-socialism and have a negative notion of economic freedom, which is confused with capitalistic exploitation of the masses (sic), most of mass media follow a left wing agenda and even if they don’t understand much of what happens in the USA they tend to associate Republican party with right european parties (nevertheless the european right is much more in favour of statism and dirigisme), and of course the political correctness is gaining ground, particularly in UK and northern Europe, where catholic roots are less solid… well, most of catholics dislike ideas like economic freedom too, even if the social doctrine of the Church considers it a good thing (after all saint Paul wrote “If a man does not work, neither shall he eat”)…
Mauro, excellent post! When I was stationed in West Berlin in the 1980′s, I was dismayed at what I THEN thought was anti-Americanism, nihilism, and general leftism. However, having been back numerous times since then (family reasons), I look at those as the “good ol’ days!”, because things have gotten much worse. I now firmly believe we Americans need to pull our troops out of Europe, and let it fend for itself, come what may!
This is the best article I have read on Europe. Insightful, and thought provoking. Europe has been dead long ago.
Long gone is the era of thinkers, intelligent debates, creativity, cultural and technological advancement in the European continent. Europeans have become accustomed to be users and takers with no contribution whatsoever to the societies they live in. This has made them to be as uninteresting, uneducated and as stagnant as our own here in the US in the liberal arena. This is what happens when you look up to the government or some bureaucrat to let you think, behave, and live your life in a certain way. Nations have become zombies following without having any critical thinking of their own.
It is truly sad in Europe.
We must avoid falling to their level!
many years ago a famous American writer sent me a letter (remember those?) saying that I had failed to understand how many American intellectuals wanted to be Europeans, and hated America because they weren’t getting the same status as their European counterparts. he was right, i’ve been saying that over and over again for a long time…
A contemptible serf people,whose long history has been nothing than a series of bloody lurches from lickspittling one form of brutal tyranny to another,have finally settled on death by the soft tyranny of welfare statism.This continent of living corpses,zombies really,enervated by welfare dependency and corrupted by post modernism and multiculturalism beg for control,in exchange for the fraudulent security of the bankrupt welfare state. They are serfs! contemptible self -righteous serfs! I hope the Muslims enslave them!
hey, take a deep breath. Mozart a serf? Michelangelo? Shakespeare? Napoleon?
Mickey: Take the bottle of vin ordinaire out of your mouth, and pay attention:for every Shakespeare Cervantes, and Mozart ,Europe produced a Marx,a Robespierre,a Hitler,and their legions of homicidal followers. Napoleon? Are you serious? Europe’s first industrial- scale mass murderer is fit to stand next to Shakespeare and Mozart? The fumes from the vin ordinaire are definitely affecting your mind!Europe turned itself into a charnel house many times over,trying to construct Utopias, When the Europeans finally ran out of corpses,or more likely,figured out that oblivion could be achieved painlessly,they constructed the welfare state and chose soft slavery and euthnasia.They were, and are, a serf people,brilliant exceptions notwithstanding, and they are done!
america listening to the losers in europe would be like the successful college student studying in the library listening to the fraternity guy, living in the frat house and getting ready to flunk out , trying to convince the library student to move in to the frat house and have a real good time. losers want everybody else to be like them. europeans know they are losers. who is trying to immigrate to france?
Actually Dan, many people want to go to France:Indigent,ignorant , desperate third world welfare lampreys! Just check out the banlieus in France!
Mr Ledeen, as an european and a son of an american (You must be in shock by now) I have to say that your analysis is offensive towards european free nations and also very wrong as it is a distorced vision of reality. You don´t know Europe, you might have many PHD´s and been in Europe in the 60´s but that´s about it, it doesn´t give you any moral authority to make such remarks. That attitude of yours is exactly what must be fought by the Democrats, by Mr. Obama and ultimately by the american people. You think you are still in the 40´s. Even Mr. Romney think´s he´s in the 80´s that´s already some decades in front of you. The European Union has of course problems and struggles but managed to unify a continent that had been fighting for centuries. Our democracies, specially in some countries like scandinavian ones, are amongst the most developed in the world. Our Science, industry and investigation are still on the edge while in the US you are loosing the track to chinese companies after decades loosing it to japanese and south korean ones (there´s no 4G technology in the US, you need to buy it to 2 european companies or 1 chinese one). You invested more in the military than in any other sector. So you did in fossile fuel. You make fun of the “Social state” that Europe managed to create and sadly must change now, but until Mr. Obama you had a system that left more than half of the population outside of any medical care.
I hope Mr Obama shows you tonight how wrong you are and what shall be the destiny of the US in the years to come, a land of progress and brotherwood and not what you aim to create as a society and I hope your sons learn with it. Best Regards.
you certainly got your wish! and I certainly hope you are right. my main quibble with you is that i am not invoking any “moral authority,” I’m just exercising my best judgment based on about fifty years of living and working in Europe. I welcome the pockets of excellence in Europe, which certainly exist, and I am rooting for Europe, bigtime, as I think my post demonstrated. I think you are dead wrong about Obama. I think he is no paladin of “brotherhood” for Americans. Quite the opposite, in fact.
@ 22. TanarUr and Russ in Texas!
Despite of my rabid support of American right wing politics and Neo-Conservatism but I am Liberal on some social issues and rabidly Hawkish on foreign policy issues and internal. And I do not see any wrong in watching such programs. The USA is the FREEST country ever on the planet, while your opinion reminds me in “Taliban mentality” and the fatwas of fundamentalist Muslims in ban of “music, tv, and booze or the like.”
I wonder, How Poles could be the only hope for Europe? Maybe they would be the great hope for Europe to finish Hitler’s work once and for all. I tell you honestly: “if these nations have a military power equivalent to America’s power, they certainly will eat the Jews again. This thing should not be excluded from mind.” The percentage of anti-Semitism in both country is the highest rate among the top five European states on the pyramid of hatred of Jews in Europe. The hatred towards Judaism and Israel can be observed from many prominent Hungarian and Polish politicians. Poland is a very conservative society. Church is dominant so no surprised such high rate of anti-Semitism being in Poland.
And not surprised, such percentage in the poll would vote in favor of who has betrayed Israel, in favor of who despise true Americans and America’s greatness. The USA is considered to be the greatest defender of Zionism. I like Europe, but the saddest thing is that Europe today is still suffering from fatal disease called “anti-Semitism”. This disease has increased significantly in Europe since 2000. As we know that Anti-Semitism played a decisive role in the Holocaust.
Poles voted for Obama against John McCain, while in this election 2012, most probably the Poles don’t like both of the candidates. They dislikes Obama for multiple reasons, among them that President Obama referred to “Polish death camps” instead of “Nazi death camps in Poland.” while Romney for his fortune.
Yes reality can be a painful thing. The problem is today that Poles are pathologically hypersensitive on this issue, they do not want to face their terrible past and who do not or cannot learn from it, will continue to be another part of the problem. they cannot or even do not wish to remember that Polish Foreign Minister Jozef Beck was closely aligned with Nazi Germany to commit crimes against the Jews. After all, today some Polish officials cynically playing upon Jewish fears and though still continues to denying the role of their countrymen whom have played a shameful role in assisting the Nazis.
Poland is an unlucky nation, their history is bad if not terrifying. Poland had a terrible long history of Anti-Semitism before World War II. The Polish church was the major force promoting hatred toward Jews and is still at present. Parts of Catholic Church today shockingly are anti-Semitic.
The hostility toward Jews in Europe in general is an inherited hostility among Europeans since the middle Ages. Anti-Semitism it was a common cultural hatred that was widespread throughout Europe, in particular (East and Central Europe) and still is widespread in Europe at present. The countries of East Europe traditionally are considered as “Christian Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant” where most of Eastern European people were very religious, whereas the Jews were the strangers, the ones who were the traditional enemies of Christian tradition. They blame Jews for the death of Jesus.
Poland had a very terrible record in protecting its Jews whereas in some other European countries had a fairly good record in protecting their Jewish populations from the Nazis, including the ally of Nazi, Italy. Despite their alliance with the Nazi but Italians did not committed any atrocities against their Jews just as the Nazi and its collaborators from Baltic States and Central Europe acted. Mussolini and his people consistently protected Jews throughout the war years. In Denmark and Holland the people banded together to protect their Jews. Even in the Nazis society themselves there were a great heroes whom risked their lives to save thousands of Jews
The Russians” who mostly consider to be an “immoral atheistic force” although they were much worse than the brutal Nazis but they did not try to finish Hitler’s work, they did not try to continue Hitler’s work so that exterminate the Jews as the Poles did, yet the Russians had the military power to do that!? Although they had a long history of anti-Semitism but it is said they did not stained their hands with the Jews bloods in the World War II period.
The Poles did little to protect their Jewish neighbors, while in some European countries the people banded together to protect their Jews. In Poland, Poles worked in the ghettos and camps and watched their Jewish neighbors suffer and die, and rarely did anything to help them. Poles have betrayed their Jewish neighbors, turned against them, pointing them out to the Nazi, sold them to Nazi, locked them into a Ghetto, packed them off to extermination camps and then, just when it was over they thought it best to try to finish Hitler’s work. After WWII when the Jews were freed from concentration camps in Poland, the Poles tried to continue Hitler’s work and exterminate the Jews because they blamed them on their problems.
As a foreigner living in Poland for long time, I saw something a very disgusting in this country “Poland is shockingly awash in anti-Semitism, where the Jews here are most cursed and scorned.” and here the Poles blame Jews on their problems all the time.
Anti-Semitism is in every cell of their body’s cells, in milk their mothers. They do not like to see others to be best than them. Jews of Poland were the successful outsiders; they were good at business, so they were better off than Poles. In East and West Europe generally, when there were economic crises, the Jews were better at surviving than most of the locals. Therefore, hatred, envy, and racism grew and kept on doing so the more powerful they got in their communities.
Actually the Polish people in general are an arrogant and rude and unreliable people, THEY LOOK DOWN UPON AMERICAN PEOPLE. They see them as rich, modest and lazy because Americans are known in the positive look of life and their love to enjoy life. Yeah, that’s right that Americans are considered to be a (NATION OF INSPIRATION ON THE PLANET), they are an GREAT INSPIRATION for free people around the world. But unfortunately, the nasty outlook and the empty arrogance by most of Europeans toward them is not the least of envy and jealousy over Americans wealth and their style of life. Poles here, either they color-blind or it are pure rudeness! Have they forgotten? That this great and amazing Technology we have it today is ONLY thanks to the great contribution of American and Jewish mind!? Americans are the MOST SUPERIOR NATION IN ALL FIELDS. THE USA IS THE MOST CREATIVE FORCE, mainly “Scientific” field, even the creatures on the surface of some other Planets are become aware this thing, today.
Americans by their nature very good and modest people they are an benevolent nation. They are the friendliest nation to the Jews. They embraced the Jews during the war. America always been and is a safe haven for Jews and for non-Jews, because the nature of American society, with its acceptance of religious diversity, provided America’s Jews with an unprecedented sense of security and safety. Americans who liberated Europe and Asia and the world from the Nazi barbarism and from Japanese aggression and recently from Communism.
Poles in general tend to be an arrogant when it comes to Americans and American’s intelligence but when they talk about Russians, they speaking in a state of fear and dread. Because they know exactly the unpleasant reaction by Russians. They fear the Russians considerably. They putting highly consideration for Russians. Russians despised them while Americans has treated them very well. The question is “for what they look down upon other?” for their Sciences or their heavy industries or for what? Maybe for their folly. Economically, Poles don’t export or produce anything other than milk, cheese, meat and bread and even they does not have sophisticated industries. their life is deeply dependent on the Russians. Poland is considered to be a net importer of Oil and natural Gas therefore Poland imports the vast majority of its energy from Russia.
Most of your allies in Iraq have taken casualties not only the Poles. Poles supported you in Iraq but they did not have to do. For instance the US has treated Poland a hell of a lot better than Germany or other close ally. But I don’t understand about your allies and what do they want from you at times? They feel neglected because you not paying attention to them…
Although I’m always FAVOR the Western White on third world nations, but America’s interests today are lie in Asia and Latin America. So I think that the Great Britain, Israel, Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, Japan, South Korea and S. Africa and New Zealand are great allies to the USA. Let alone Brazilians, Argentineans, Italians, Filipinos, and even Ukrainians and Lithuanians and other excellent allies in Europe and Asia and Latin America”.
Best regards.
To 9-Robert Klemme.
“Winston, are you kidding me? The US is more peaceful? As far as I know the risk to be shot down is much higher in the US than in western Europe. And who went to Iraq without a real reason?…I am immensely grateful that the US along with their allies brought an end to Nazi Germany.”
Criticism and at the same time gratitude!” yes, Winston is entirely right!’ through war comes real peace. the truth is that USA has brought peace, safety and prosperity into many countries on the planet.
The USA along with its western allies brought an end to Nazi barbarism in Europe and to Japanese aggression in Asia. They liberated Europe and Asia and the world from their evils, and recently the Americans themselves who liberated hundreds of millions of Europeans from communism. So, the willingness of the US to project power has helped prevent wars, while the reluctance of the US to project power often has caused wars.
Iraq? in fact Iraq was an rogue state, while Americans had to brought an end to Saddam’s madness. For such reasons, the United States of America along with its close western allies including “Israel, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia and Canada” MUST maintain world peace because the institution of fail and utter impotence “aka UN” can not do that!!!
Interesting you say 94% of Brits would vote Obama. I am not sure that to be the case. Bit late in the day now but Romney has far more in common with the Conservatives and the Conservatives are in power here – well sort of.
the data are in the poll i quoted.