What Did He Know and When Did He Know It? The Shadow Knows…
ML: But they should have known it was coming, even if they didn’t have advance details.
JJA: Precisely. It should have been obvious. The key line in that quotation from State is their concern about contacts with official and “normal” Libyans. In fact, if you go back and listen to Obama’s early claims that it was all about the video trailer, you’ll hear him say things like “those demonstrations were understandable.”
ML: You got a link to that?
JJA: It’s in that one cloud over by my apartment…
ML: HoHO! You made a funny….In fact, in the weeks leading up to the attack in Benghazi, State actually withdrew an American security team. As John Bolton and Andy McCarthy said right away, it looked like the administration wanted to deny the reality they should have seen, in favor of a myth they wanted to believe: that Obama’s policies had made the Middle East–indeed, the whole world–a safer and better place for good Americans.
JJA: No deception is as effective as self-deception, but even if they were unprepared for the assault, it is still remarkable, and disgusting, that they did not take some action to save the men on the ground. And you can’t explain that by saying “they didn’t want people to see that the policy wasn’t working very well,” since everyone was going to see that anyway, whatever the “cause” of the attack.
ML: If we had saved the men on the ground, Obama and Hillary and Petraeus could still have claimed that the fighting was provoked by the video.
JJA: Sure. The failure to act–apparently despite watching and hearing about the slaughter in real time, thanks to a drone with a camera and an eye witness reporting to Washington–requires a different sort of explanation.
At which point, as you might have expected, the static got worse.
ML: So why?
JJA: Probably no short simple answer…SNARFLE! CRACK! GARGLE!…usual inability to make decisions and make them stick…RUMBLE!…afraid the attackers had anti-aircraft missiles, didn’t want a replay of Carter’s or Clinton’s failed military…ZOT!…
and he was gone. So I’ll finish it up. The big reason is fear of failure, a big public failure. It was easier to live with tragedy and even a perception of indecisiveness-verging-on-cowardice than with an AC130 gunship going down in flames.
Did we know the assailants had such missiles? I don’t know. I’d guess we didn’t “know,” any more than we “knew” precisely who they were. Certainly a big part of Stevens’ mission was to recover the materiel left on the ground by Qadaffi’s troops, much of which was captured by the jihadis. It may have been reasonable to fear that the attackers had some.
Still, I wish Angleton had stayed online another couple of minutes…
I hope this is pursued even if Romney wins.
It better be pursued, they have all they need to start a return to the rule of law. If not we are finished.
Issa’s committee investigates Chicago USAO
http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2012/10/30/issas-committee-investigates-chicago-usao/
Or, Lord forbid, if O wins
When Romney is president, he can declassify any documents in order for the American people to know the truth.
We are basically astute enough to realize that governments, by their nature, are full of secrets and twists and turns. Of course, there are many issues, by definition, which must be kept secret for national security.
But we also understand that some regimes are more prone to lies than transparency, simply because their plans for the nation are in juxtaposition to the mandates they are handed.
And the people have more than enough reason to suspect the motives of Barack HUSSEIN Obama, and there is little space here for a lengthy reiteration.
So, there are several things we can be comfortably sure about, regarding Bengazigate, while others can be connected through many dots and breadcrumbs, at least for now.
And we do know – the Islamist-in-Chief is determined to NOT stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power; he is empowering the Muslim Brotherhood all over the Middle East & beyond – even in Washington; he is the most hostile POTUS to Israel in the history of America; and his actions are anti-American at their base.
Therefore, the following is more than likely – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/10/31/more-bengazigate-mysteries-meandering-into-shia-iranian-territory-irrespective-of-sunni-brotherhoodalqaeda-involvement-islamists-of-all-stripes-cooperate-when-necessary-commentary-by-adina/
I think Petraus already signaled that there won’t be any documents to declassify. Otherwise why would he go along with the spontaneous protest story?
Unfortunately, we have a media that is almost universally in the tank for Obama. So this story won’t be aired, if at all, until after the election. Newt Gingrich is claiming that two networks have “secret emails” that show the Obama administration alone, told military commanders on the ground to ‘stand down’ and not help the Benghazi 4.
http://thevailspot.blogspot.com/2012/10/obama-betrayed-benghazi-4.html
Furthermore, the US Marine in command of Africa, General Ham, was allegedly relieved by the White House for ordering a rescue operation. (Marines are famous for leaving no one behind, I know, because I was once a Jarhead…the rule in the USMC is whether or not you despise the wounded {or even dead} guy you there, you go get his ass…because he would go get you.). Gen Ham was relieved by his deputy while he was on his way to supervise the operation.
If this bares out, and the media refuses to air this prior to the election, knowing full well that it would cost Obama the election, THEN, should Obama win next Tues…he should be impeached and removed from office.
Further, if the media DOES have these alleged documents in it’s posession, and refuses to publish them prior to the election, they will have utterly lost what little shred of respect that America had for them…and will deserve the disgust and condemnation they will receive.
Maybe a manpad launch against a Spectre gunship was within the realm of the possible, but those puppies are usually heat-seeking, and if you’ve ever seen that stuff all over the Youtubes, AC-130s are equipped with a literally and truly awesome (!) complement of flares and chaff they can fire off if they think they might be targeted by air-to-air or surface-to-air ordnance.
E.g., see: Chances are, though, that Valerie knew about as much about Spectre self-defense capacity as she knew about corpse-men.
you’re surely right about that one. bigtime.
great piece, while concern over terrorists having anti- aircraft S/A missiles may be an excuse of the Obama administration, does not justify inaction at all. first of Qadhafi’s S/A missiles were mostly old and outdated Soviet era heat seeking ones that can’t beat US jets that are capable of confusing those missiles , second the only portable S/A missiles the terrorists could’ve possibly carried with them would’ve been MANPADs that can barely target low altitude slow flying targets such as helicopters 3rd, there were many options on the table during that 7 hours that would’ve made the jihadist flee, gave the Libyan government a chance to intervene or helped the americans win the struggle. for example in many cases when the US troops were outnumbered and surrounded by the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, the military used low altitude high speed fly-bys, to scare and disperse them, the former SEAL killed 60 of them before himself got killed, a small team of Delta Forces which were stationed in Italy i think, only less than an hour away, could’ve shifted the balance of power, those terrorists are no match to the US special forces, only they huge numbers made those killing possible.
If Obama is not re-elected what’s the worst legally that can be done to him as a private citizen? Can he be sued and bankrupted by the families of the dead Americans? Can his citizenship (whatever he might currently be claiming) be stripped and he be deported to Kenya and/or Indonesia? Can he actually spend some time as a convicted felon behind bars for murder?
Ditto Hillary, since every single bad thing we can attribute to Obama is equally all her fault, too. Although I doubt that Kenya or Malaysia would agree to take her. Surely Bill and Hillary both understand by now that this Benghazi scandal is just as murderous towards her political future as it is towards B. Hussein’s.
Tar & feathers too good for both of them.
re:
“Surely Bill and Hillary both understand by now that this Benghazi scandal is just as murderous towards her political future as it is towards B. Hussein’s.”
Excellent. Much emphasis is needed here on “future”….Hillary’s…the whole noxious lot.
We must concentrate major effort on holding all agencies’ feet involved in this preventable macabre disaster very very close to the fires for as long as it takes to get true accountability. Covering one’s a** will reach new art forms in the coming weeks and months…….above all……we must never, never allow our newly accustomed truncated attention spans effected and affected by our new toys’ tweeters and tweets and such, flush this down a not-impossible Orwellian Memory Hole.
Frankly, I’ve never experienced anything quite like this national shame and avoidable murder.
But, in the face of what may seem like common sense for a lot of us with genuine concerns, we, all of us, must remember that those simplistic 53% self-centered-entitlement-grasping “cool” minded Obama-claque members are still out there waiting for Voting Day.
They’re literally Pavlovian.
Bear in mind: the newly elected congress convenes two weeks or more before inauguration day. It is possible that Obama could lose the election and still be impeached before he leaves office, thus forfeiting his pension, secret service protection, and all the other perquisites of an ex-president. Then he could be tried as an ordinary citizen for this criminal conspiracy.
If I undertand everything correctly, the smartest president we have ever had wasn’t aware that the Benghazi consulate had bad security, wasn’t aware that multiple requests had been made to upgrade the security, didn’t know that the consulate was under attack until it was too late to do anything about it, didn’t give the order to secure the embassy staff’s lives until the ambassador and three other had been killed, couldn’t interpet the reams of intellignece information that streamed in real time, was easily misled that the cause was a utube video even though all of the agencies were saying something else, persisted in the false notion for at least two weeks, advertised the false notiion, supported the UN ambassador as she advertised the false notion, changed his story completely during a debate, can’t find out what happened five weeks after the incident even though there were multiple live feeds during the attack and all of the agencies have spoken publicly about what they knew and did, and doesn’t have the least idea what to do about it or whose fault it was.
Luckily for us Geaorge Bush wasn’t in charge, because without the smartest man in the world we would really be in trouble.
For whatever reason – Obama gave an order not to defend ~30 American lives. The fact is it was him as no other explanation can cover the fact that there is no scapegoat – something Obama desperately needs at this point. And I’m guessing that H. Clinton, Gen. Patraeus – and Panetta got together and got word to Obama that they would expose his cowardice if he tried to screw some innocent in CIA or State over this huge mistake that belongs to Obama.
Either way it shakes out his goose is cooked. By losing the election or by winning it only to be exposed for what he is – then impeached. The lines have been drawn and very high officials are going to spill the beans sooner than later. Perhaps not before the election but very soon after regardless of that outcome. If Hillary wants to save her own political career she’ll need to expose Obama’s actions on 9/11 before next week – another 4 years of this clown and she won’t be able to run for dog catcher. I think she’s up to her neck in this one – JMHO…
Get him back on the Ouija board, Mr Ledeen, ask him when failure became policy option #one in America.
i will. but he’s hard to find, sometimes. indeed, he always was…
Jan, 2009.
Let’s try that again. The Youtube “angel wings” vid URL is in the “website” box this time.
Excellent! I wish JJA had had a bit more time, too. Was he cut off by the NSA? As I recall, Carter was criticized mainly for inaction with regard to the duration of the Tehran hostage situation, not for the unsuccessful attempt to rescue them. I confess I had not considered the possibility of a downed C-130, but there has been speculation that one or more of the drones above Benghazi was armed. In addition, it has been noted that either Woods or Doherty had “painted” their attackers with a laser – perhaps even the mortar team which eventually killed them – and that the laser would not have been used had there not been an airborne asset which could have utilized the laser “painting,” Whoever used the laser was putting himself in jeopardy as, apparently, anyone with night vision equipment or a smart phone with the proper app can visualize the laser and its source. So if there were either an armed drone or a C-130 in the area, could it could it not have been utilized? If the attackers had rockets, they apparently were not used against whatever was overhead.
Could JJA possibly answer that? It would only take a sec.
Carter was responsible for the failure of Operation Eagle Claw, the attempt
to rescue the hostages at the Iranian embassy, because he insisted that the
effort be split up among the Services, instead of having one branch in charge;
Yet another political overruling of military practice for publicity reasons.
The mission failed because the helicopters used were not up to the task,
and because one Helo pilot did not know that one _does_not_ try to fly
just over a taxiing C-130; The prop-wash from the transport sucked him in.
We do not have the right or the need to know the exact details of the aerial
assets available over Benghazi on 9/11, their capabilities and vulnerabilities,
all we need to know is were available, useable assets not employed, and why.
don’t forget the sandstorms, Report.
Well, that was another problem with joint operations. It is very hard to reschedule such things. Egos get in the way. So, the op goes forward, when it should not. Plus, when the Prez is involved, a certain rigidity and fear for one’s career kicks in.
The order should be, “You have a go, whenever the situation is right.” Make the decision and get out of the way. No one functions well, when the boss is looking over his shoulder. Reagan did that once. Gave the order and went back to sleep saying, “Tell me how it went in the morning.”
Carter was a notorious micro-manager, so of course, the op failed miserably.
True. We don’t need to know what specifically was available but something was available. You don’t paint a target with a laser designator without first synchronizing it with the fire power asset. Something was in a position to lay the fires of hell upon the bad guys.
Please take into account:
Woods and Doherty disobeyed direct orders twice and ran toward the gunfire.
They were NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. They were ordered not to be there! Their appearance and fierce resistance was a COMPLETE SURPRISE to everyone involved; friend and foe.
They completely disrupted whatever was supposed to be happening at the compound.
They repulsed the first attack. During the second larger attack one of the ex-SEALs was “lasing” the enemy mortar positions. Either he was FULLY EXPECTING HELP TO ARRIVE SHORTLY in the form of drone/Spectre/F-18 guided munitions, or as a last ditch effort he was trying to frighten off the attackers. I don’t believe linkup with air support is required to paint targets.
So my question remains: What were Woods and Doherty told by higher-ups as they fought to their deaths? Were they told help was on its way, or that no help would be forthcoming?
Those laser targeting devices aren’t visible to the human eye – and they are also often ‘coded’. Otherwise what would prevent the enemy from painting you?
The attackers apparently saw them with their iPhones. Yes, there’s an app for that.
Well, since JJA is now working for the SOE in London, the static is understandable – the Black Chamber has no love for rival occult intel agencies. (See The Atrocity Archives by Charles Stross for more.)
NanGee – the worst that can happen to POTUS and SecState is that they be considered outcasts by polite society, as Nixon was after he resigned. Executive immunity would shield him from prosecution and civil suit, as it does the other surviving ex-Presidents. (Think of all the problems G.W. Bush would be having right now.)
Much as I despise what they may have done/not done in Benghazi, it’s more important that we not tie the hands of future Presidents by making them seek legal cover for every action they take. One of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Republic into a despotism was criminalizing the actions of the Consuls by their opponents.
thanks for that insight, ech, with which I agree. alas, the whole business has been overlawyered to a fare-thee-well. the lawyers even sign off on targeting on the battlefield, nowadays. just ask our Marine sons…
“It may have been reasonable to fear that the attackers had some.” (missiles)
I believe US intel and State knew a lot about the arms in the hands of the invaders. So, knowing the AC-130 would be fired upon, and knowing the weapon that would be firing, they took a pass on the rescue.
Interesting, but I think Valerie put the kibosh on the rescue. Again, fear of failure.
Multitude of theories.
If Valerie and/or Obama had known of that risk, would it not have been prudent to explain that as the reason for their inaction in coming to the aid of Woods and Doherty?
For all Angleton’s fabled spook knowledge, he failed to smell out Kim Philby, even though the two of them worked closely together in Washington on Western counter-intelligence.
quite right. shows you how good Philby was, at least for a while.
Yes, Philby was very good and not for just a while. After 1951, when he alerted MacLean and Burgess that the CIA was onto them, this Cambridge Two defected. Philby was soon suspected of being the Third. (It turned out there were at least five).
Philby was interrogated and cleared and allowed to leave America. He was re-assigned by MI6 to the Middle-East, where he was soon involved closely with the Suez Canal invasion plans. Guess who got to know these plans first? The Soviets. Eisenhower was taken by surprise and outraged.
The point is that Angleton was probably a far better OSS WW2 spook than a Cold War one. When Philby finally defected in 1963, within the CIA two camps grew up – the Angletonians and the antis. Angleton’s reputation as the “mole hunter” took a severe hit.
Anyway, Benghazi is a different matter. Panetta and Petraeus seem to have lost their tongues. Could Angleton have done better when faced by Obama? Who knows?
The Edward Jay Epstein pamphlet on JJA, available at Amazon, is very interesting on this and other JJA matters.
In my opinion he was working Philby from both ends and when he had what he wanted Philby was released… He didn’t particularly want Philby he wanted access to Philby’s network. JJA was a big picture guy and from what I have read of him a fantastic chess player.
Did the President know that the militia that attacked the consulate just got their hands on some very effective anti-aircraft weapons that were supposed to go to Syria? The botched covert transfer of military hardware to an Islamist group is probably a wild conspiracy theory, but it would provide an explanation for not sending manned aircraft. However, it could just be a case of a weak leader being overly concerned about openly violating Libyan air space. What is not explained is why we didn’t fire a missile from the drones that were already overhead.
At this point I think it’s fair to say that President Obama probably lied when he blamed the Benghazi attack on a protest that got out of hand. We know that people inside the White House knew the basic details of the attack as it happened, President Obama was scheduled to meet with Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta about an hour after the attack, and the fighting lasted over 6 hours starting late afternoon EDT, not 3AM. It’s not plausible that “we’re being attacked” wouldn’t come up in that defense meeting.
in theory POTUS is supposed to be immediately informed in such cases. talking minutes…
Within 6 mins was the standard when I was in Military Intelligence. They’d wake up the Prez, if necessary, even interrupt him on the can.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-met-panetta-biden-91112-55-minutes-after-state-notified-wh-benghazi-was-under
How about this meeting 55 minutes later?
This.
All that plus somehow, I just can’t imagine an AC-130 flying around unaware of, and unable to deal with, hostile ground conditions: sorry, JJA. But that previous sentence is only based on armchair gut-instinct (which I suspect is considerably better than BO/Val/Hil had available when they did the Uriah move for the 4 Abandoned Ones), not actual flight experience.
The Russian shoulder fired anti-aircraft missile, the SA-7, has a ceiling of about 2300 meters, or 7,200 feet. The AC-130 can stay above that and attack, as can an aircraft launching a Hellfire.
i am still trying to find out if there was an armed drone in the area.
Fox’ last report indicates there were two drones in the sky there, neither armed. The first unarmed drone had been assigned to monitor a nearby radical (Qaeda) training area, was diverted to Benghazi but ran low on fuel, so a second drone was launched from Italy to take over monitoring. Why the second drone was unarmed is an unanswered question since they already knew that there was at least an attack underway.
There was some noise about the difficult of deploying armed drones in live fire situations, but they could have sent an armed one without committing to fire from it.
When Patton was ordered to relieve McAuliffe at Bastogne, I’ll bet he didn’t ask Ike to rethink his orders because some German soldiers might return fire. This whole thing makes no sense.
Ham is leaving? Panetta and Ham contradict each other? Petraeus and the guys on the ground appear to contradict each other, unless the chain of communications didn’t pass through CIA? Everything is now Top Secret, although the operation is over and there’s no need for tactical classification.
I don’t know about the particular C-130s in question, but that platform is certainly large enough to mount a countermeasures suite? Is it possible that it doesn’t carry one?
Too much of this just doesn’t add up, and somebody needs to dig around in this pile of manure until they find out why. Rep. Issa, are you out there somewhere?
I think equally galling as the inaction and cowardly decision to do nothing, is that fact that Obama got on his tax-payer Air Force One the next morning and jetted off to Vegas.
I *really* wish someone would total up how much Mr. and Mrs. BooBoo have spent on jet fuel between them campaigning, just this past year. Last week, Obama was in LA and then Mrs. Jug Ears was here the next day doing a separate event. I didn’t see anything about the logistics involved but I’d be willing to make a sizeable bet that these two will *always* fly two separate planes when ever possible.
Is the American taxpayer covering Obama’s campaign costs, and will the American taxpayer have to pay for Obama’s on-going legal cover-up(s) when everything — not just Benghazi — starts to unravel?
Af1 is the Prez’ flying office. It is the nature of the job that he has to campaign, so AF1 gets used for that. The campaign is supposed to cover the cost of usual airfare for the Prez and his campaign people. They do not have to cover the exorbitant expense of AF1, nor do they pay for Secret service protection. That said, I doubt we are being reimbursed even the small amount of airfare.
“I don’t know about the particular C-130s in question, but that platform is certainly large enough to mount a countermeasures suite? Is it possible that it doesn’t carry one?”
Yes, best in the world;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130
{pinched}
“Despite the threat of surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) and increasing visibility during the early morning hours of 31 January 1991, one AC-130H, AF Serial No. 69-6567, call-sign Spirit 03, opted to stay to continue to protect the Marines. A lone Iraqi with a Strela-2 MANPAD shot Spirit 03 down, and all 14 crew members died.[27]”
There were 2 AC-130 H’s assigned to the Libya operation (Operation Odyssey Dawn)
http://jets.wikia.com/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130
{pinched}
“Defensive systems include a countermeasures dispensing system that releases chaff and flares to counter radar infrared-guided anti-aircraft missiles. Also infrared heat shields mounted underneath the engines disperse and hide engine heat sources from infrared-guided anti-aircraft missiles”
IIRC, there is also a microwave emitter active defence against ManPADS. I remember reading about it a few years ago when some nutter was trying to get the Airlines to pay a few million to install them on Jet Airliners. The claim was they worked fine on the AC-130. Obviously, they didn’t.
Sometimes haji gets lucky. The fly boys call it the ‘golden BB’.
Sometimes the job gets dangerous. Ask Torpedo 8. Or the crew of the Jarvis Bay.
Celer, Silens, Mortalis.
I do not have Michael’s Ouija board powers, I still have a slightly used and banged up Magic 8 ball, which I have contacted and I am channeling the last known investigative reporter to work for the now non-mainstream media. Bulldog Drummond.
Bulldog, it appears that Benghazi has been a coverup of epic proportions, some still cling, however, to the notion that it simply miscommunication. Can you tell us whether it was really a coverup instead?
● It is certain
Thanks, I take it that Susan Rice, Jay Carney and the entirety of the Obama administration knew that their version of the facts were going to mislead the public correct?
● It is decidedly so
Did the decision to mislead the public stem from a political expediency rather than from a military or security strategy?
● Without a doubt
Did the White House put up the smokescreen and conduct orders from that central point, in conjunction with the Chicago campaign strategists?
● Yes – definitely
Did the going to Las Vegas, talking about the deaths being a “bump in the road”, refusing to take questions on the subject, refusing to address the American people on the attack by an al Qaeda affiliate..did this cavalier and dismissive attitude arise out of an intentional effort to downplay and sweep under the rug, the real and very dangerous implications of this attack?
● You may rely on it
Is the media intentionally burying the story in order to help Obama’s election chances?
● As I see it, yes
Will they continue to do so, right up through election day?
● Most likely
Has the Benghazi attack and the subsequent coverup had any impact on helping Romney, especially in swing states?
● Outlook good
Is there a preference cascade still in motion toward Romney and away from Obama?
● Yes
Is there enough time to make a difference in now purple states such as WI, MI, MN, PA, as well as Iowa, Ohio, even Nevada and New Mexico?
● Signs point to yes
Will we get the jobs report, the information on Benghazi, and other key elements of information or will the media bury every single thing they can right up to election day on anything that will hurt Obama?
● Reply hazy, try again
Will Sandy have an impact on turnout in key swing states?
● Ask again later
Is there an October surprise still yet to come, that we are not aware of at this time?
● Better not tell you now
Will the preference cascade carry over to the Senate races?
● Cannot predict now
Will ACORN/SEIU types attempt massive voter fraud in key swing states?
● Concentrate and ask again
Will the UN observers be impartial and independent in their watchdog role?
● Don’t count on it
Will this election be free from invasive foreign influence?
● My reply is no
Will the media fairly investigate and report on the illegal and potentially devastating role of improper foreign influence on this election?
● My sources say no
Even if Obama loses, will the media treat a Republican administration fairly or likely mimic their approach to news gathering and presentation after four years of cheerleading for radical leftism?
● Outlook not so good
Will we get less class warfare, racial warfare, gender warfare, ethnic warfare, out of the media and the radical leftist Democratic Party if Republicans sweep this election cycle?
● Very doubtful
If Governor Romney wins, this (as well as Fast and Furious) should be pursued with the full force of the law. Should Obama win, this should be brought out daily to destroy his “flexibility” and ability to act (until he is impeached and removed from office).
This story should be pushed relentlessly on every available means to destroy the legacy and credibility of Obama, his Administration and the Democrat party in general. Every time he surfaces on the lecture circuit or promotes another ghostwritten book, thousands of people should be there to say “What about Benghazi?” “Why was Ambassador Stevens left to die?” “Why did you not send help?”
Keep pushing the story, and push Obama out of office and out of history
So, the most powerful military in the world is sidelined by a bunch of pukes with shoulder fired ordinance. Is that what this is coming to?
I don’t think any of this makes any sense, with all due respect to JJA. There is only one explanation that makes any sense when you consider the entire context–and I mean the ENTIRE context, going back several months and continuing through the real-time surveillance: This was a hit. Stevens was set up and taken out. It would have been easier to cover it up if no aid had arrived–and they tried to prevent that. Woods and Doherty, by ignoring orders and going anyway, messed that part of it up and made the cover-up at least more difficult, and maybe impossible.
And I wonder if in the process the adminstration INTENDED for the extremist militia to get any weapons stored at or near the consulate? It would look bad for the administration to just hand over weapons to terrorist organizations again (Fast and Furious is already causing them enough problems). But, if they happened to pull the competent security force away from consulate, order any reaction forces to stay put, and leave it protected by expendable, inept, and/or corrupt locals… and if the militias just happened to walk in and take those weapons… then they could deny that they were deliberately arming the militia but still get the weapons into their hands. It would all have to be worked out ahead of time, and no doubt they’d have some excuse already planned for the event. Perhaps they planned to pin the whole thing on an overly excitable crowd whipped into a frenzy by a bad American who is insulting the religion of peace. Two birds with one stone, that way… arming the muslims in a deniable way and also carrying out that most important presidential duty of punishing those who defame Islam. No doubt they’d want to watch the whole thing remotely just to make sure it went off like they expected, too.
Why would Obama want to arm Al-Qaeda? I don’t know, why did he want to arm the Mexican cartels? Maybe they promised to use the new weapons against Assad?
And he’d have gotten away with it to, if it wasn’t for those meddling SEALs.
Yes, this would have been just another day in the Arab-Sprung Middle East–just another outrage against Islam, and something we had certainly asked for, with no one knowing anything about any missing weapons–if it hadn’t been for those pesky Seals.
On 9/10/12 Sean Smith (a talented gamer) noted to his online fellow gamers that the joint was being cased. He noted mordantly something like, “I’ll talk to you tomorrow if I’m still alive”.
Interesting remark. Would you care to expand on it?
It’s been reported weeks ago, and there is nothing to expand upon, that’s how he signed off.
Smith’s last post was ~ ‘Shit! Gunfire outside – Gotta go.’
His main fame as a gamer was his skill at diplomatic negotiations.
His post made it clear that he knew he was in a kill zone.
Well if he knew he was in a kill zone, someone forgot to tell the people who put him there. Repeated requests for increased security–or oven ANY security–were either ignored or denied outright for weeks before the attack.
Maybe they thought he was holding down the North African Games Division–you know, the famous NORAGDIV. I guess he’s been relieved of his command now.
Is it just me or doesn’t this administration want to err on the side of caution? It seems to me that more security is better every time regardless of the situation. Just like that team that arrested that video maker in the middle of the night.
It sure would be nice to forget the past 4 years but if we do it’ll happen again. Just like Carter in ’76 and Obama ’08, some other loser will show up in the future if we forget.
And the sad thing? If The Won loses, he’ll still get filthy rich making speeches to other losers.
The two heroes who fought the enemy to a standstill, accounting for 60 enemy dead, deserve a Congressional. Sounds like Sgt. York or something. Since they weren’t officially active duty, Congress should award it directly by an act. Boehner should introduce it and get a house vote. Then let’s see if the Dems want to vote against it or if El Supremo refuses to sign it. The hearings should be interesting too…
The MOH is an excellent idea. The discovery during the award investigation should be enlightening and should be made public. These men should have tangible, although posthumous, affirmation of their bravery. A star on the wall at Langley is not enough.
Hi Michael: I put up a post this morning (at my link) making the same suggestion. Obama and company must have feared that the attackers had SAMs. That is the only way that Panetta could be telling the truth about lack of information being their grounds for not sending a reaction force “into harm’s way.” The only weapons in theater that can threaten an AC130 are SAMs, so this must have been the information he was concerned about.
Other reports suggest that Obama had good reason to fear that al Qaeda had SAMs, because a big part of what Ambassador Stephens was doing was funneling Ghadaffi’s weapons cache, including SAMs, to select opponents of Assad in Syria, and as the Times reported two weeks ago, the Assad opponents who Obama has been arming are down-the-line al Qaeda.
If there was deception on Panetta part it was probably an exaggeration about the lack of information. I suspect that they actually had pretty good information that the attackers had SAMs, and it deterred them from acting. Not that they couldn’t take out SAMs with the right counter-force, but that would have revealed to the world that the jihadists were using SAMs, almost certainly supplied by Obama. It would be Fast and Furious times a thousand, revealed for all to see two months before the election.
http://floppingaces.net/2012/10/30/why-the-ac130s-were-grounded-obama-didnt-want-voters-to-find-out-that-he-had-armed-the-jihadists-with-sams-reader-post/
I’m wondering how much the MSM is getting slime coated by their failures to report and investigate the Been to Gauzy affair?
I know this sounds harsh, but the law is that assisting in covering up a murder makes one an accessory to murder.
That’s a very serious crime.
So what if the Kenyan Kid thought they had AA weapons. That still does not dismiss the “stand-down” orders to not help the consulate under attack. Ask Angleton who gave those orders to stand down and if the Kenyan or his Hildabeast were in the Situation Room at that time.
Anyone with a functioning brain and the simple facts of the region, the day, and the recent history would have known to protect these people – or remove them. Why, with all of the brains in the administration and in the intelligence community, didn’t they protect these people and have contigency plans? How could they fail at such a simple exercise of risk analysis? Tell me that.
Reducing security in sucha dangerous locale, plus the orders to STAND DOWN a variety of at-the-ready rescue forces can only mean the attack was intended to succeed, without outside interference.
So a planned “hit” or kidnapping/exchange make more and more sense. Those are the only reason a coverup of such proportion would be on-going. Or, perhaps they don’t want the public to find out that AlQ & affiliates have aquired 10,000 MANPADs. That would make it easy to downsize TSA, no?
Imagine too, during the lull between attacks, Woods and Doherty could probably have HEARD THE DRONE OVERHEAD. It would’ve been of course, inconceivable to either that the drone would be unarmed, or ordered not to fire.
But they weren’t in the loop, so they just “painted” away, til they exhausted their ammo.
Well, even if there was a concern with MANPADS at the scene of the battle, the airfield was secure (the 8-man security team from Tripoli landed there). There was nothing to prevent a larger force from Italy Tripoli from also landing there.
Also, as Michael points out, if there was intel on MANPADs and other sophisiticated equipment moving into Benghazi, then the embassy should have either been reinforced or closed.
Even if, for the sake of argument, we give Obama the absolute benefit of the doubt: there was not enough reliable intelligence about the attack, there was not enough time to send back up/it could potentially create a larger tragedy, and no one was certain what was happening on the ground.
If we assume all that, there is still a problem. Obama has an obligation as president to say ‘these things happened, here are my reasons (or these are the agencies that made the decisions), and I stand by them (or in hindsight I wish I had acted differently’.
A president should be forthcoming with the people. He shouldn’t just get to discuss issues favorable to him (ala bin Laden). Even if Obama acted rationally, the inability to clarify the event so long after it transpired is a grievous sin by itself and seems like he is covering up the issue for purely political reasons.
I had an interesting article emailed to me tonight. Maybe speculation but interesting nonetheless. It asks the question:is Obama a Muslim? Are there better explanations for this coward’s actions on 9/11? I’ll let you decide.
Of course he is. Anyone who thinks he isn’t hasn’t read the Koran. Once born a Muslim, you CANNOT leave. You can become an apostate Muslim, the penalty for which is beheading.
Westerners have trouble understanding this concept. Muslims don’t.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/012-apostasy.htm
http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
I wonder how many in around the intelligence comminity had uneasy thoughts about “The Ides of March”re the repeat of 9/11?
I think about what was in Gen Petraeus`s mind when he joined the Evil Empire and was one of the conditions he remain silent re any deeds now such as the Benghasi event?
The appointment of Spinetta to the head of the War Deptment was such a crass decision by BO that it stinks of “I will show you who is boss of the Gov`tment”
And once again, Bam-Bam voted “Present”.
Speculation that fear of SAMs caused somebody to hold fire doesn’t wash with me. The reports say that our guys had the mortar position “lit up” with a targeting laser. One would not waste precious battery power before one has assurance that the ordnance it will serve is within seconds of being able to open fire. Which means that the Spectre was either already within range of these alleged SAMs, or was in position to use its’ weapons but out of range of the SAMs.
The idea that this whole opera was concocted to put heavy weapons into the hands of people who are our enemies, and that the two SEALS stepped in at the wrong moment, looks mighty close to plausible to me.
AMERICANS KNOW NOW. THE AMBASSADOR DIED ASKING FOR HELP … WATCH HERE: http://bwcentral.org/2012/10/the-ambassador-died-asking-for-help/
Would anyone like to bet that the person who actually decided to refuse help to the Americans in Benghazi was Valerie Jarrett?
Ledeen’s jokey approach is really off putting, irritating, and inappropriate. Ledeen should have written this article in a more straight forward way.
Ledeen’s analysis that dealt with anticipating the attack was also weak in that it is not reasonable to expect that an attack on 9/11 specifically should have been anticipated. What Ledeen should have focused on more is that embassy security was too weak and that security should either have been bolstered or the embassy personnel should have been pulled out.
What Embassy? Steve, you are behind the curve here. Only one Embassy per country. The US Embassy to Libya is in Tripoli, the Capital city. Other building sites have different names, depending on what they do. This should help;
ww.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-embassy-and-consulate/
Consulates DO NOT have military support. If things are that bad in a nation, you pull out ALL personal and close up shop. Consuls are there to help citizens, Embassies are there to conduct government to government business.
So to complain about the Benghazi Consulate ( if it was. We won’t know until the records are examined and we see who was paying the rent) is like complaining about your car sinking when you tried to go fishing in it. Or as we say out here in flyover America; ‘A Cow ain’t a horse.’ Cows don’t like it when you try to ride them. Horses don’t like it when you try to milk them.
I want the Obomination retired to Hawaii as much as any American does. Blowing smoke doesn’t help. Let the left blow smoke. Hold your fire until about 9 PM EST. Then after Wolf goes, ‘I can’t believe this. The polls can’t be that wrong.’ We P_A_R_T_Y.
Go out front and do the Party Rock Shuffle.
Black is an absolute shield against impeachment.
Biden is an absolute shield against impeachment
No, the shield against impeachment is ‘Dirty’ Harry Reid. As long as he is SML, Obama is above the Law. As is the Clown Posse.
Sorry, but the house impeaches. The senate tries the case. Obama can be impeached just as Johnson and Clinton were. So what if the senate refuses to convict? The discovery process would be way worth an impeachment.
It’s amazing to what extent people will try to shield our divider in chief. I’m not sure how accurate the report is of facebook suspending people for 24 to 48 hours that have used the divider in chief’s name in posts concerning the Benghazi disaster but if it is true, just one more reason to dump them or even better, never sign up in the first place.
At one time it was a good way to stay in touch with some of our exchange students we have hosted over the years but if they are going to play the political bias card, they can put their service where the sun never shines.
NONE of the answers/reasons/excuses matter …
You have people in harms way, calling for help? IF you are an American, you go and try to help them … no ifs ands or buts … otherwise you’re a POS, not a POTUS.
I’ve been in and out of the netherworld for the last few weeks, and have been delighted to hear that Ty Woods and others are making plans. For as long as the crew of traitors that left our
Americans without help on September 11th, 2012 live, they will be haunted, tortured, and denied peace of mind. I and others will shortly join that ghostly group to make sure their mission is accomplished. God Bless the U S A !!!!!
Michael,
The sheer magnitude of the “coverup” is absolutely frightening.
Everyone at the W/H, State, Pentagon, major commands, CIA, their spokespeople, and all the MSM (except FOX) are not talking.
What executive order can the One have given that keeps them ALL totally quiet?
Even the “hit” or kidnap/exchange speculations don’t deserve this type of information shutdown and the on-going disinformation campaign. If it was either of those, somebody would blow the whistle at of disgust. How bad can this situation be?
What a gift to the ‘pubs. Here Mr. O had an opportunity to do-a-Grenada in real-time (even if it turned into a Desert-1 that wouldn’t have been clear until after the election), won the (grudging) respect of the grunts, and given the undecideds pause even before the debates (if only just a wag-the-dog).
So what does he and his team do? An own goal at best. At worst he makes Nixon look like a great president. Or perhaps his own team set him up – knowing what another four years would do to the country.
A tragedy – those things we do to ourselves wittingly.
And we still have an American citizen in jail for having the temerity to speak his mind – and a member of a persecuted religious minority to boot. A sad day for America. Granted, only the elites in the mid-east have internet access sufficient to download pictures (to say nothing of the-jihadist in the street that would need a years’ salary for one month’s data plan for a smartphone), much less video – so this is likley (just) another AQ production in its entirety – anyone that would shoot from behind women and children wouldn’t hesitate to commit blasphemy to make the great satan roll-over-and-beg on the anniversary of the their greatest victory – esp. since it was blessed by their own imam – where ends justify any means.
What were they chanting in Cairo? “We are all Osama, Obama..”
Panetta’s “we-didn’t-have-a-clear-picture-so-it-wouldn’t-have-been-prudent” excuse fails on any number of levels.
My question is this: Why was it safe to fly a security team from Tripoli to Benghazi to fight, but unsafe to fly a bunch of special ops people from Sicily to Behghazi to fight? There was time a-plenty to do the latter, if you’ve decided to do the former.
Romney Rep. Peter King: Presidential Kill List “Totally Constitutional”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6GQr8m5cOY&feature=player_embedded
Here is the predicted outcome if Obama wins the election.
Impeachment charges are brought against him and after a few helpless attempts to have them dismissed he resigns as POTUS paving the way for Joe Biden to assume the vacated position.
From one pile of manure to another…we don’t get a break.
“…in favor of a myth they wanted to believe: that Obama’s policies had made the Middle East–indeed, the whole world–a safer and better place for good Americans.”
Michael, in fact Mr. Obama’s policies in the region has put American interests and Americans lives at permanent risk. through his rule, America has allowed its large strategical enemies and their close allies of evil regimes to extend their arm in the region and in Latin America.
President Obama did not want to expand the war on terror. He has never mentioned the war on terrorism in his honeyed speeches, that WAR MUST be a priority of any American president who care about the protection of US national security, because President Obama and his administration have for years been insisting that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. He has embraced extreme radical Islamic groups call for the destruction of America and Israel, such as the Muslim Brotherhood.
However, may Mr. Obama prefer an American soldier’s death on the muslim terrorist because he did not want to deal with the possibility that American Marines would shoot at Muslim attackers in order to save Americans lives. So let’s party on the great day, Tuesday November 6, because Obama time is OVER!!! SO I SAY IT IN ADVANCE ON THIS GREAT FORUM “CONGRATULATION AMERICA! CONGRATULATION, President. Mitt Romeny!!!”
“…in favor of a myth they wanted to believe: that Obama’s policies had made the Middle East–indeed, the whole world–a safer and better place for good Americans.”
Michael, in fact Mr. Obama’s policies in the region has put American interests and Americans lives at permanent risk. through his rule, America has allowed its large strategical enemies and their close allies of evil regimes to extend their arm in the region and in Latin America.
President Obama did not want to expand the war on terror. He has never mentioned the war on terrorism in his honeyed speeches, that WAR MUST be a priority of any American president who care about the protection of US national security, because President Obama and his administration have for years been insisting that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. He has embraced extreme radical Islamic groups call for the destruction of America and Israel, such as the Muslim Brotherhood.
However, may Mr. Obama prefer an American soldier’s death on the muslim terrorist because he did not want to deal with the possibility that American Marines would shoot at Muslim attackers in order to save Americans lives. So let’s party on the great day, Tuesday November 6, because Obama time is OVER!!! SO I SAY IT IN ADVANCE ON THIS GREAT FORUM “CONGRATULATION AMERICA! CONGRATULATION, President. Mitt Romeny!!!”
Warner
The centrifuges are spinning and haven’t stopped yet. Sanctions and restrictions and highly hard forbidden commercial internationally affairs are only just the first steps of destroying the Tehran’s regime, their necessity essential, cause to crack and separate between nation, military forces, fragment of head’s pyramid of power, but it not enough to terminate the enemy’s satanic rotation. Tehran’s regime is poisonous enemy, but their toxin does not inject by themselves, their proxies will do it for them. Sanctions can do it good for weakness, but their impuissance can’t kill and erase this satanic regime from the earth. The final strike must cooperate in the victory process, to get rid of whole world of this filthy satanic bad misery from the earth.
U.S and Israel Army, Rapid like a thunder faster than a cosmic spark, please.
If Romney is elected, he will have a chance to put a permanent stain on Clinton who will surely be knocking on the door in 2016. But like most republicans, he will likely give the prior administration a pass.
Was there a cover-up re. Benghazi? Of course. Tho it was am incompetent cover-up, very flimsical (flimsy+whimsical). I mean, even the hula dancers of Hawaii have better cover.
However, and this is the point, the whole objective of this concerted push-back on Fast & Furious and Benghazi was to nail Obama BEFORE the elections. Looks like that’s not gonna happen. I thought when Ty Woods’ dad and (Retd) Admiral Lyons (former commander of the Pacific Fleet) spoke out, that Obama would finally get cornered. But Hurrican Sandy put paid to that.
So, what to do now? Apart from defeating Obama next Tuesday, what else?
I bow to the superior knowledge of Mr Ledeen and Mr Rubin on foreign policy. But, isn’t it past time to try and analyse what informed Obama’s Muslim outreach, with such disastrous results?
Taking many steps back would help. After the implosion of the Soviet Union, the reforms introduced by Reagan paid back benefits, in spades. Clinton rode that tide.
But, even during Clinton’s presidency, a new threat arose. Islamic fundamentalism. I’m sure people still remember the criticism of America’s focus on this new threat even back then. Many Liberals, American and European, including their Arab friends, castigated America for it’s apparent tendency to find a new evil empire to replace the old. That America could not live without an enemy to fight?
After Clinton’s and Bush’s ineffectual efforts to stem the Islamic tide, Obama must have reached a conclusion. His primary objective was domestic. The last thing he wanted was a foreign policy nightmare.
I don’t prescibe to the opinion that Obama was actively engaged in reducing American power. But he was no fool. He believed that he could make a deal. He would provide the jihadists some protection, like stopping Gaddhafi’s march on Benghazi. In return, he would earn some brownie points, like getting info on where Laden and Awlaki were holed up. (Oh yes, Osama in Abbotabad – this intel was not provided by the Pakistanis and certainly not by a polio doctor conducting blood tests).
But you don’t make deals with jihadists. I believe Benghazi came as an existential shock to Obama and he was transfixed like a deer in the headlights.
So fine, so far. So what? If Romney wins, he’ll face the same choice as Obama did. How would Mssrs Ledeen and Rubin advise Romney? Is there a middle path between the strategies of Bush and Obama’s? Or, is it back to George Kennan, a generations long fight?
I like “flimsical.” What do I recommend? Supporting democratic revolution in Iran, supporting democratic revolutionaries most everywhere. etc.
W broke the world !
Actually…I believe our intel types knew Osama’s whereabouts and were keeping him on ice until the hit would be most politically advantageous. And it’s not an opinion that Obama is weakening America’s power, it’s a pretty obvious reality to anyone who is paying the least amount of attention. So, we’ll be continuing the generations long fight at an increasing disadvantage. Mission accomplished for Mr Obama.