Last Wednesday they published an extraordinary message, proclaiming their independence of the supreme leader, and calling on their brethren to defect, and join the revolution:
…those who imagine that the Revolutionary Guard Corps is the ranking guards of the supreme leader, they are mistaken. We take God as our witness that we will not permit the blood of martyrs of the revolution and an imposed war, that was poured on the streets and battlefields of our great nation for freedom and independence and the Islamic Republic, be trampled by power-hungry and monopolistic individuals. We take God as our witness that with the presence of certain dangers that may threaten our lives, we stand with the voting public in confronting the treacherous and with the water of ablution of martyrdom, we will not permit that those corrupt and power-grabbing commanders who don the blessed costume of the Revolutionary Guard, to drag people through blood and sand. We reiterate and specifically recommend to our Basiji brothers to either stand to the side of the fray or turn in your weapons and join the masses of people…
We will see later today if appeals of this sort are widespread and effective. Certainly there are grounds for the regime to be deeply worried. As Ardeshir Arian tells us, many commanders of the Guards refused to carry out a roundup of opposition leaders, some of them were arrested, and Khamenei’s sermon was delayed for several hours. All day Saturday, regime forces were rounding up their opponents, from members of Mousavi’s campaign staff, to people around Karrubi, and to people sitting in their homes all over Iran. The full extent of this repression cannot be known yet, but it is very ugly and very considerable.
Meanwhile, to his credit, President Obama finally rallied to the revolutionaries:
…we stand behind those who are seeking justice in a peaceful way. Already we’ve seen violence out there. I’ve said this throughout the week, I want to repeat it, that we stand with those who would look to peaceful resolution of conflict and we believe that the voices of people have to be heard, that that’s a universal value that the American people stand for and this administration stands for.
That wasn’t so hard, was it? It would also be nice to hear a forthright condemnation of those who have unleashed the violence, and I suspect that we will hear it.
Finally, almost everyone has missed one of the most remarkable themes of the Khamenei sermon, namely the attack on the Clintons. I’ll give it to you in full, because there is really no way to summarize it without depriving you of the full flavor. He was upset at American accusations of human rights violations in Iran:
Even inside the U.S., one is amazed, during the time of the administration of these very Democrats, the Democratic Party in America, the time of the presidency of the husband of this so-called “lady” who expresses her opinions, 80, 80 something people who were a part of the Davudi sect, were burnt alive; there’s no room for denying this. These “excellencies” did this deed; it was these very Democrats…the Davudi sect which they themselves call BRANCH DAVIDIANS. For some unknown reason, these people incurred the wrath of American and inside a house…they went over there and besieged the place and whatever they did, they didn’t come out and so they ended up setting the house on fire and 80 something men, women and children burned alive! You think you know something about human rights?!
Now I don’t want to be unfair to Khamenei (whom I once unfairly accused of being dead), but I have a suspicion that he was referring to Ali Murad Davudi, the Baha’i leader who disappeared from Iran during one of the pogroms against the members of his faith during the first year of the Islamic Republic.
Bad form, beating up on a woman who just underwent elbow surgery in Washington. But it’s probably nothing like what he’s preparing to unleash on his own people later today.
UPDATE I: (around 2 o’clock my time) Regime blocked access to major squares with fire trucks, used high pressure hoses on demonstrators, and Basij and police attacked demonstrators with the usual collection of clubs, knives, guns etc.
Many reports–Twitter is full of them–of wounded (and wounded people in hospitals being dragged off to die or to prison). I’ve told you about the Guardian blog, have a look also at the NY Times blog which currently has a video, rather surprisingly credited to the regime’s propaganda arms, PressTV, which claims to show a demonstration today. That looks like a very big crowd, larger than anything I’ve seen described on Twitter (mind you, it’s impossible to keep up with Twitter reports).
Belgian TV and Italy’s Corriere della Sera report the “taking” (say the Belgians) and/or the “burning” (Italians) of an Ahmadi-Nezhad campaign HQ. And there have been reports from Tehran of the bombing of the Imam Khomeini Shrine. Two reported injured. Both of these reports are being questioned by Western journalists, as they think the regime wants to be able to claim that the Mousavi supporters are criminals and hooligans.
Thanks to Judith Klinghoffer for pointing out this article in the Qatari press, quoting extensively from Khamenei, leading his followers in chants accusing outside forces (US, Israel, Great Britain) of organizing criminal acts in Iran.
Mousavi issued a statement saying “I am prepared for martyrdom. If I am taken prisoner, go on strike.”
Somebody or other has been calling for a strike fund for about ten years. And of course is accused of warmongering by American “progressives.”
UPDATE II: Obama finally condemns the regime
The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.
As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.
Martin Luther King once said – “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples’ belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.
UPDATE III, the Mousavi appearance today (Saturday still) from one of his people:
Mousavi [dressed in pure white, the dress of the dead] briefly in public; in his speech he stated “Khamenei your speech did not contain a single word of truth”; “Khamenei why kill and harm innocent civilians if you know you are right with the elections? Why not prove that you are right by means of a new election? Then, if you win as you are so confident about, you can once and for all prove that you have always been right and then we have to silence ourselves. Why not, Khamenei?
I accept my fate; if they arrest me please go on strike; if they kill me please go on an indefinite strike until you have achieved our goals.
While Mousavi gave his speech 10 RGs spontaneously defected.
ME: Mousavi is still calling for a non-violent solution, but he knows–as I have said before, he has known for some days now–that this is a life and death showdown, that elections cannot “fix” it, and that the only issue is the survival of the regime, whether or not the Islamic Republic falls.
When people start chanting “death to the dictator!” and “death to Khamenei!” talk of calmly going to some polling booth and voting is hardly relevant. Even Roger Cohen has figured it out (nothing like a bit of tear gas to clarify the situation).
All wrong Mr. Ledeen,
Nothing will happen, people in Iran overwhelmingly support the government and the Supreme Leader. You make it seem as if nobody came out to see the Supreme Leader speak today, there were over 1 million people out in Tehran alone.
In most Iranian cities, villages and small towns, Khamenei has the support of the people and thats a fact. Iranians are a religious people, and the people that pushed Mousavi to be the “leader” of the reformists are underestimating the will of the majority of the Iranian people and the government.
What Khamenei said is true, you cannot resort to protesting in the streets and demand an election be cancelled because you lost. This will set a precedent for every other election. You have to follow the legal channels of the government. Mousavi after all is part of the this government, you must believe I have some beach front property in arizona if you think that he wants to reform the system.
All wrong.
Well said!
This is a tense moment for those living inside of Iran. I think either way regime is to fall. They crackdown, they’ll fall. They don’t crackdown, they’ll fall. I hope my Iranian brothers and sisters have enough courage, energy and power to carry on.
Free Iran!
It is rather ironic how Mr. Khamenei should bring up the tragedy that happened to the Branch Davidians, for he personally prayed to God to let such a calamity to happen to them. It is the often repeated prayer for thirty years by the mullah’s republic that what happened to the Branch Davidians (and for that matter, members of People’s Temple) happen to each and every American. Every single Friday, the Iranian government prays for genocide against the American people; the Branch Davidians were Americans, so the Iranian government got part of its wish when David Koresh’s fortress burned down.
Mr. Khamenei advocates genocide against the American people every chance he gets, but if the United States utters even one word of protest against his tyranny, he calls it “intolerable meddling”. The mullahs who tyrannize Iran may think Americans have no memory; they are wrong. America is an old land with many ancient cultures. It is the often repeated desire of the Iranian state to finish what the smallpox started, but America endures. Not only does the American people endure, but Iran endures also against a pharaonic state masquerading as an Islamic republic.
I suppose one shouldn’t expect any more than idiocy from a man’s whose primary academic achievement comes from translating Sayed Kotb’s literary diarrhea into Farsi.
It took roughly 45 years for the mistakes of Yalta to be corrected. Could it be that it takes only 30 years for the mistakes of the Carter Administration throwing the Shah to the wolves, for those mistakes to be corrected?
Would that be the case, in a word: WOW!
Are there truly at least a hundred thousand Iranians prepared to die? If this is accurate—the regime should fall. It’s one thing for so-called loyal troops to kill a relatively small number of people, but not thousands of martyrs in a public setting. How secular are the police and military? Are there enough hard core, religious fundamentalists to obey the mullahs when the blood is really flowing? Well, we are about to find out.
It’s ridiculous to beleive in what Jewish Simon says about Iran – enemy of Simon’s motherland.
Let Iran people make their choices!
My guess is a violent ending to the demonstration. What happens after is anybody’s guess. One dismal precedent is the systematic massacre of many, many thousands of Albigensian heretics in 13th century France, by the Catholic Church. The killing was implacable and lasted for about 20 years.
This massacre was an 13th century innovation where the Church and State joined forces to crush by force dissent which might place either in danger. The new method proved to be an effective device for a long time.
The Iranian Religious Leaders are also the State and they appear to operate as if they were in the 13th century. So why wouldn’t they opt for crushing force by dissent, implacably, over an extended period?
In the last paragraph corrected “crushing force by dissent” to “crushing dissent by force”
My guess is a violent ending to the demonstration. What happens after is anybody’s guess. One dismal precedent is the systematic massacre of many, many thousands of Albigensian heretics in 13th century France, by the Catholic Church. The killing was implacable and lasted for about 20 years.
This massacre was a 13th century innovation where the Church and State joined forces to crush by force dissent which might place either in danger. The new method proved to be an effective device for a long time.
The Iranian Religious Leaders are also the State and they appear to operate as if they were in the 13th century. So why wouldn’t they opt for crushing dissent by force, implacably, over an extended period?
That the Supreme Leader is, in fact, willing to slaughter thousands of his own people to assure remaining in control of the government, is beyond doubt. It is Allah’s will. Whether the Revolutionary Guards would obey the command to massacre defenseless citizens, but might turn on their heartless masters, is THE big question.
To urge the U.S. President to proclaim support for the rebels and cheer them on does not help their cause or increase their likelihood of survival. It merely feeds the rage of Khamenei and lends credibility to his lies of U.S. complicity with Mousavi.
It is not noble or admirable to declare your fine principles while standing to the side and cheering on those facing death, without any intention of actually stepping in and helping protect them or die beside them. That is as contemptible as urging a potential suicide to jump,
In a situation where you’re either unable and/or unwilling to
become personally involved, the only decent course is to shut up and pray…for the victim, and for your own shameful self.
My heart goes out to the Persians, who with calloused knees must decide whether to stand and die with hope to put an end to their subservience. The tree of liberty and the blood of martyrs means days like this must be faced. Godspeed.
Mr.Lincoln,
What do you know of the Shah? If there is a time line for the correction of an error, that started in 1953 and Carter paid a price for the sins of the early Eisenhower administration along the way. The genesis of the Islamist movements of the last century was fueled by the oppression of the Shah. Now you will say that I am blaming America, maybe I am, but I suggest that by blaming Carter, you are too. Nice white hat though, covers your empty head nicely.
The Carter administration compassionately allowed the Shah into the United States for cancer treatment. I wish Carter had “thrown him to the wolves” so we wouldn’t have endured the hostage crisis. What we’ve really been paying for is putting the Shah on the “Peacock Throne” in the first place after overthrowing (with help from Britain) Iran’s democratically elected president back in 1953. We wanted their oil: we didn’t want Russia to have access. If the brave people of Iran withstand this crisis, it will have taken 56 years to correct that deadly Cold War conniving. I pray for their protection today. They deserve self determination and an end to all bullying, from within and without.
Meanwhile, to his credit, President Obama finally rallied to the revolutionaries:
Obama deserves no credit. His conduct is shameful. While Iranians mass to overthrow their fanatical theocracy he is telling jokes about how the media made him a celebrity and trying to socialize health care before anyone notices.
@ Williamson
It is idiotic to suggest that strong statements from Obama telling the mullahs that the wole world is watching and that they should, true to their Islamic history refrain from the use of violence is hardly like telling a would be suicide to jump. The violence is coming and your boy is doing nothing to curb it.
And Obama is clueless enough that he could make the false statement about the history of Islam, which I have italicized, without any sense of irony.
That 3 am call has been made to Obama everyday, from 9am to 5 pm for the past week. He’s responded by asking for a spicy mustard.
“You [should] follow Andrew Sullivan’s blog … if you’re interested in … what’s happening in the ranks of the American Left.”
It looks as if Wingnut City and Rio Limbaugh now become so completely Murdoch-cocooned and unreality-based that ex-neocomrade A. Sullivan, that contemptible renegade from the ranks of l@@ny lemmin’s, is, for some neocomrades, the very model of a modern Lefty. Any more representative specimen — say, the President of the United States — would, I guess, be blankly unintelligible to Neocomrade Grand Ayatollah Mikey Bin Ledeen and his like-mindless pajamatarian devotees.
To take A. Sullivan seriously in conjunction with the future of anything more important or interesting than _The Atlantic_ magazine is beyond my powers, yet I can (sorta) see what His Eminence is bloviatin’ ’bout. The postneoswine may have changed the words it sings, but the Sullivanic melody is as self-porcine as ever: wallow today, wallow yesterday, and, whatever tomorrow may bring in terms of Señorito de Cerdo y Falsedad’s theoretical opinions, the practical plan is bound to be “wallow tomorrow” as well.
In an ideal world, I daresay the opinions of decent political grown-ups would be such as to render self-porcine wallowin’ in them impossible. The likes of A. Sullivan would *have* to be wingnutettes or wingnuts, because their characteristic _modus operandi_ would automatically exclude them from all political company not already thoroughly illiberal and antidemocratic and contemptuous of “the Democrat party.”
However, the real world is not like that, and only a l@@ny lemmin’ would prefer to live on some crackpot Planet Rove [1] or Planet Antirove instead of Terra. ( “A poor thing, but our own!” “Gentlemen, I give you Our Homeworld™, right or wrong!” )
_Chez nois_, it is quite possible to be liberal and democratic and Democratic in a Sullivanical wallowin’ kind of way, or, conversely, to entertain the theories of Hooverville and the prejudices of Rio Limbaugh without any very serious impairment of one’s _dignitas liberalis_. Piebald or hybrid political animals are not very common — most l@@ns are l@@ny in manner as well as in matter, and so with decent political adults — but of the existence of mixed subspecies there can be no question.
Grand Ayatollah Bin Ledeen may have reached the point at which His Eminence simply cannot communicate with persons who are not l@@ns either formally or materially, but with most of His Eminence’s neocomrades, brain disease will not yet have advanced so far as that. Rove ’n’ Rupert have not yet triumphed altogether! (I don’t think. But cross your fingers, please!)
***
His Eminence’s ignorances (and ignorant druthers) about the Islamic Republic are unremarkable, neither better nor worse than the current bipartisan average, so let us pass over everythin’ bloviated on that subject, shall we?
Eventually the G. A. (FZPHES!) manages to return His gaze to the holy Homeland™, though indirectly and through a mirror darkly:
“[A]lmost everyone has missed one of the most remarkable themes of the Khamenei sermon, namely the attack on the Clintons. I’ll give it to you in full, because there is really no way to summarize it without depriving you of the full flavor. He was upset at American accusations of human rights violations in Iran: [snip quotation from rival cleric].
“Now I don’t want to be unfair to Khamenei (whom I once unfairly accused of being dead), but I have a suspicion that he was referring to Ali Murad Davudi, the Baha’i leader who disappeared from Iran during one of the pogroms against the members of his faith during the first year of the Islamic Republic. Bad form, beating up on a woman who just underwent elbow surgery in Washington. But it’s probably nothing like what he’s preparing to unleash on his own people later today.”
A quaint case of so-called ‘projection’, is it not? Mikey Cardinal Bin Ledeen takes for granted that ‘Alí Cardinal Khamene’í is fully as narrow and blinkered and omphaloscopic as His Eminence is Himself! Doubtless the evil Qommie is fixated on some recherché Iranian angle of the Waco affair that not one HolyHomelander™ in ten million ever heard of. Doubtless. of course!
Meanwhile on the l@@ny lemmin’ front, observe that when His Eminence does admit, at least implicitly, that the track record of the holy Homeland™ may not be 1000.00% blemish-free, the blemish is referred to “the Clintons” rather than to the USA. [3]
Happy days.
__
[1] ’’That is not the way the world really works anymore. WE are an Empire now, and when WE act, WE create OUR OWN reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — WE will act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. WE are history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what WE do.’’
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html
[2] Criticism and philosophy are over the sweet little heads of pajamatarians, most likely, but let the record show that Mr. McCloskey was mostly just preaching the heathen a little Aristotle. It is more important to recognize the Form of Andrew Sullivan (_i.e._, self-porcine wallowin’) than to know his opinions _materialiter_. In short, “Form trumps matter.”
This would be the case even if the señorito had stuck with its original l@@ny lemmin’ material. The fact that the A. S. specimen happens to be self-fickle as well as self-porcine comprises only part of what it means to affirm the precedence of its Form over its matter. However a case like this one should at least make clear to the meanest heathen intelligence that Form and matter are logically distinct.
[3] Well, it does vaguely makes sense, after all. I daresay St. Bill was never *little Mikey’s* President! And that goes for Barák Husáyn XLIV Obáma too! Unless the present analyst errs grievously.
Grand Ayatollah Bin Ledeen does not live in either the sewer of Romulus or in the _Republic_ of Plato. Plainly His Eminence is a pious subject of the Empire of Rove, as authoritatively elucidated in note [1] above. (“What’s the Persian for ‘Cloudcuckooland’? “)
[666] “Father Zeus prolong His Eminence’s shadow!” (What else? Need you ask?)
I never even understood Persians taking Arab names as part of being Muslim much less their putting up with the jerk Jimmie decided was a good holy man and an excellent replacement for the Shah. While it’s probably true that the Shah had to go, he didn’t have to be replaced by a blood thirsty madman. A madman who hated not only hated the United States, but also the vast majority of other Muslims he considered to be reprobate and worse than infidels. Islam hasn’t done a single positive thing for the Persians from the time it first swept through them until today.
I hope to one day see a Persian nation that isn’t Islamic and isn’t run by a dictator or madman. I feel sure their contributions would amaze people used to thinking of that whole part of the world as backwards. It’s a shame that just as the grip of evil seems to growing weaker in Tehran, the grip of insanity is growing stronger in Washington.
Regards
WOW is right! For sure,Iran is changed. That toothpaste is never going back in the tube again–
After all these years of governments and kingdoms, people have not learned that just protesting and violence are not going to accomplish much. People need to follow the rule of law. If you want to change something, change the law. Each society has different sets of laws, but they should know what the means are to change those laws.
“This confirms what I have been arguing, namely that, however Mousavi started, he now leads a revolutionary mass movement that is aimed at the dark heart of the corrupt theocratic fascist state.”
That is the best sentence in the Faster, Please column this week.
What is happening now over there!!!??
“People need to follow the rule of law. If you want to change something, change the law.”
Did you say this with a straight face? Your comment is most bizarre. Dictatorial regimes are not receptive to efforts merely to “change the law.” Power almost always has to be wrestled away from tyrants at the cost of shedding blood. As matter of fact, offhand I cannot think of any historical exceptions whatsoever.
1. winston:
[They crackdown, they’ll fall. They don’t crackdown, they’ll fall. I hope my Iranian brothers and sisters have enough courage, energy and power to carry on.]
May God hear your voice, and my prayers are with the Iranian people. Unfortunately, I remember when the Chinese crackdowned in 1989 and the government did not fall. Will see.
9. vivo:
[After all these years of governments and kingdoms, people have not learned that just protesting and violence are not going to accomplish much. People need to follow the rule of law. If you want to change something, change the law. Each society has different sets of laws, but they should know what the means are to change those laws.]
vivo, you as stupid as usual. For example in Cuba…what laws can you change? And even if you change a law or two…what that does? Really? Protesting and violence sure worked in the American Revolution, how do you think the British were kicked out of here?
Depends entirely on how many Iranians are willing to die for their children and grandchildren the way some of my ancestors were willing to die to get rid of the Brits.
What the Demonstrators now need is what every revolution needs . . . guns and special forces. I hope they get them. India, I bet, has a dog in this fight, but what is Iraq doing? Probably little in the case of either. Teddy Roosevelt would know what to do.
#6
they don’t seem to mind;
The Iranian government delivered a stern warning to the country’s opposition Saturday against further protests of the disputed presidential election.
The opposition had called for more protests in Tehran and around the world, a day after Iran’s supreme leader said the reelection of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad must be accepted.
Our silence would then condemn us. Let them fight for thier birthright and encourage them to succeed.
Bloody Saturday? Gee, I hope so. I mean, I do but I don’t. Or better yet, I hope so, but I shouldn’t say I hope so. OK, what I really want to happen is whatever is worst for Obama. I don’t really care about Iran or Iranians. Hell, I think we should just nuke the whole region and let them start over. Just a bunch of ragheads anyway. I mean, I would never say that, but I’d be fine with that. So my strategy is to trot out my holier-than-them freedom speak, drizzle it with democracy syrup, and have some conservative friends over to commune in outrage over the plight of the people we can’t stand.
You’re all invited.
The reason for Obama’s hands-off approach should be clear: if democracy happens in Iran, he will have to admit, yet again, that Bush was right. And, Obama himself will be deprived of the opportunity to salvage U.S. relations with the mullahs. He will get credit for exactly nothing.
Amil Imani of International Analyst Network wrote yesterday:
“The vicious attacks on people by the police and official security apparatus are less and less willing to exercise brute force to suppress the people and that’s exactly why the regime has imported Arab speaking terrorist groups such as Lebanese Hizbollah and Palestinian thugs.
In short, Iran is in a state of serious upheaval. Replacing Ahmadinejad with the already tried and proven wanton gang of Rafsanjani-Khatami-Mousavi is not going to change matters much. As for the West, it is prudent that it does not embark on a trigger-happy, self interested policy. The mullahs’ lease on life, [short of brutal massacre of the Iranian people in the absence of any foreign media] is just about over. A concerted political, economic, and moral support for the long-suffering and valiant Iranian people and the secular opposition can put an end to the shameful and hate-driven Islamofascists of any and all stripes.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
After further reflection on Obama’s remarks I must ask if the converse of his statement is true? Reading ‘between the lines’ tis not a big stretch to see no support for active self defensive measures against the lethal aggression promised… As it appears Iran is being Crucified!
— Pray For Peace –
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.amilimani.com/
http://www.analyst-network.com/
http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/5/12824
A bit of Rafsanjani speculation. If he were smart, which he is, he might just be polling his Assembly of experts majority (which he won last election) as to what is the invisible line over which they will commit to the removal of Khameni. He’d also likely be polling for likely successors. After all, this is their constitutional job so he can’t be called to task for it. This information is likely something that Khameni and Ahmadinejad do not have so it makes both of them more hesitant and nervous. It also partially protects the protesters as mass killings of ordinary Iranians are probably involved in at least some of the mullahs red lines.
Once Khameni steps over a working majority of the experts’ red lines, Rafsanjani will call the assembly together and remove Khameni. If you knew that a rival held an invisible, shifting, sword of Damocles over you, you might have nice words to say too in your Friday sermon. After all, with Rafsanjani’s resignation from the Expediency Council, there’s nothing left to criticize him over. Officially, he’s not doing anything and he won’t do anything until he knows that decisive action will be successful and he’ll drop the sword on Khameni, depriving Ahmadinejad of the top cover he needs to continue in his electoral fraud.
They ain’t got a prayer, the Mullahs if cornered and going down will use all means available I expect chemical weapons would even be used to preserve the mullah’s power base.
sheesh:
get a life.
Bloody Saturday? Gee, I hope so. I mean, I do but I don’t. Or better yet, I hope so, but I shouldn’t say I hope so. OK, what I really want to happen is whatever is worst for Obama. I don’t really care about Iran or Iranians. Hell, I think we should just nuke the whole region and let them start over. Just a bunch of ragheads anyway. I mean, I would never say that, but I’d be fine with that. So my strategy is to trot out my holier-than-them freedom speak, drizzle it with democracy syrup, and have some conservative friends over to commune in outrage over the plight of the people we can’t stand.
Bloody 2006? Gee, I hope so. I mean, I do but I don’t. Or better yet, I hope so, but I shouldn’t say I hope so. OK, what I really want to happen is whatever is worst for Bush. I don’t really care about Iraq or Iraqis. Hell, I think we should just ignore the whole region and leave them to the Butcher of Baghdad. Just a bunch of religious brown people anyway. I mean, I would never say that, but I’d be fine with that. So my strategy is to trot out my holier-than-them peace speak, drizzle it with “we shouldn’t interfere” and Halliburton! syrup, and have some liberal friends (who aren’t really liberal) over to commune in outrage over the plight of the people we can’t stand.
Morally, intellectually, and socially transcendant heroes, after all, apply the Democrat vs. Republican template to everything. Is there anything with which that template does not work, I wonder? Is it not the discovery of the ages I’ve made, a super-secret recipe to having a clue that only I know about? What joy to discover one need not be intelligent, educated, or experienced! Really, why bother going to school, or to have reading comprehension skills beyond the (dumbed down) 8th grade? And who needs and IQ over 90?
Democrat vs. Republican is the answer to EVERYTHING! In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s the only thing they need teach in college ….
Or so my 17-yo friends with 90 IQs tell me ….
VIvo: spoken like a true 14 year old.
Gee, why didn’t the Founding Fathers think of that?
Sheesh: Stop projecting your vileness on decent Americans.
22 Mongoose . . . I have you down for potato salad.
Violences are already there,
http://www.iran-resist.org/article5440.html
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees !
Personally, I think Obama largely irrelevant to the process, as Bush the Elder was in 1989. The smart thing is to stand back and let events take their course. If the mullarchy falls, it will be because it is no longer self-sustainable. I don’t see how a speech by Obama can have more than a journalistic effect on events.
It is interesting to see crack-ups within the Revolutionary Guards. In any autocratic regime, the men with the guns are the lynchpin. It’s the difference between Russia in 1905 and Russia in 1917.
vivo @ 9 states, “After all these years of governments and kingdoms, people have not learned that just protesting and violence are not going to accomplish much. People need to follow the rule of law. If you want to change something, change the law. Each society has different sets of laws, but they should know what the means are to change those laws.”
Was this comment offered in satire or could vivo actually be this stupid? “change the law?” Iran is a fascist theocracy, the mullahs ARE the law!
My God, folks, is it any wonder why we in America are saddled with the inept and corrupt government we now have…when a seemingly growing number (a majority, perhaps?) of our citizens “think” and “reason” as vivo does?
As one fascist to another Obama can relate to Khamenei, hence no need for preconditions. like “stop killing our soldiers”, and even a certain envy for the ability to send his storm troops into the street to beat and smash the people.
Hang in there Hussien Obama, you can always hope that the day will come when you have your own street thugs. You might name Bill Ayers Honorary Field Marshall.
Now to the real problem, nasty little Israel, gotta keep your focus Hussien.
This could be a TRUE revolution: the mad mullahs stand between the Iranian People (or Peoples) and God’s Gift to the human beings, Freedom.
Let’s pray for the Freedom Fighters.
Godspeed.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
The news is barely covering this enough.
It’s all happening too fast. Had the government gotten out of the way of our military and let them finish the job quickly in Iraq, the US would be poised to help the people in Iran.
With Obama giving a deadline in Iraq he has empowered the opposition, all of the hard work for the people of Iraq will be thrown out of the window.
I have nothing but admiration for the brave Iranians who are standing up to the corruption and thuggishness of their government. Unlike some Western protesters in recent years who thought they were, the Iranians are truly putting their lives on the line in the fight against tyranny. Good luck (and hopefully success) to them.
28. Ms. Attitude: . . . “With Obama giving a deadline in Iraq . . . ”
I’m giving you a chance to retract that. You should take it.
It seems to me that much hinges on whether the security forces are ideologically motivated or merely hired thugs. Thugs tend to lose their motivation fairly quickly when they detect that their own necks are on the line. Same pretty much goes for the mullahs. If this revolt is successful, we’ll know as soon as the leadership starts leaving for Syria with their ill-gotten loot. I doubt that for all their public piety the mullahs are anything more than a gang of thieves in clerical garb.
Sheesh,
What happened to your right-wing caricature? Your cover is blown. There’s an old saying, something involving a rope and pissing.
Ms. Attitude,
Re: Iraq. Things are so well there that even Obama can’t (likely) screw it up at this point. His “withdrawal” announcement will leave 50,000 or so troops there indefinitely. Kind of like he’s “closing” Gitmo, without, you know, closing it. See also “prospeity” and “employment” if you need further clarification.
Prescient, Barry.
If you follow it all on Twitter — e.g.
http://twitter.com/persiankiwi
which you can type into the address box of a new browser window — then you will learn that helicopters are dumping stuff on crowds. Nobody is sure what it is, but some question whether it is chemical attack of some kind.
On Rafsanjani: is it fair to say if Rafsanjani is part of this “green movement,” he’ll attempt to hijack it and restore himself to atop the theocratic system? I feel like his inclusion would destroy the cause, even if it were successful.
are the mullahs practicing Chicago politics?
Nick G
I think you are right. Rafsanjani went against ahmadinejad in large measure because Ahmadinejad accused him of corruption. And although I hate antarinejad his accusation was correct. Rafsanjani is not much better than Amadinejad.
51. Chris:
I and many others have come to realize that Sheesh is just some sort of crazy that’s here for our amusement. He claims to listen to the song, “Bomb, Bomb Iran” on the radio and he has some type of love for mustard…go figure. When he tries to be serious he’s continually wrong. Go figure. It’s been decided that he’s not even of voting age!
Chris, the politics that have been put in the war have slowed progress. Our troops are having their hands tied as our government sides with the enemy, i.e.: Gitmo and charges against our troops. Who wants to take prisoners when your own government will believe the prisoner over you and you are the one that ends up in prison!
If we had Iraq completely secured we could be helping the people of Iran but that would also require having a Commander in Chief with some balls!
56. ella:
We can hope and pray that someone will come in to power there who is for the people.
Sheesh: what are you 13 tears old? Are you capable of an adult response? A witty one?
Potato salad, indeed. This is not a game.
No wonder you have such poor prospects? Are your parents aware of what a dead-ender you are?
Bet they are ashamed of you. That is what your vile manners are really about isn’t it?
Ms. Attitude: I am hoping for the same thing here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGcSU7FcgQw
The people are being shot!
Elizabeth:
Mossadegh and large elements of his National Front were communists or strongly communist leanings with direct lnks to the USSR. The Kremlin was making in roads all across the Levant and the ME. It was a good thing that we and the Brits threw him out. Back then the West had the stone to protect our civilization not to mention our property rights.
It was a similar situation to Allende, it just had not advanced to a cancer yet.
Communist and socialist movement are notorious for stuffing ballot boxes and claiming that they are “democratically elected. I mean, just look at America’s Democrats. There was hardly anything at all approaching a rational, democratic polity in Iran in that era. The exigencies of the Cold War demanded this sort of thing back then, contemporary Left Wing hypocritical snuffles to the contrary.
(You should check out the fates of peoples and nations were we did not act quickly enough to stop the Soviets or the ChiComs.)
BTW, That buffoon Carter cause this whole mess in the first place by opening the way for Khomeine to go back to Iran. His support of him and his lack of support for the Shah cause this whole mess. If fact, the whole of the war with Islam that we have been in for the last few decades can be laid at that idiot Carter’s doorstep.
If the Shah would have remained in power, things would have gone much better for Iran, the ME and the West. Certainly the Islamic Republic did infinitely more damage to Iran than the Shah ever did. Recent events clearly show this to be the case. He would have died and some sort of more or less republican transition would have been made, and Iran would have been a prosperous modern nation decades ago. Instead it took a side trip into the 12th century.
If Mossadegh would have had his way, Iran would be another socialist or communist hellhole or a parody of such like Baathist Iraq was.
I see absolutely no sane reason to “give obama credit” for finally verbalizing at about a 4.5% credibility level what he should have instinctively said loudly within 10 hours of the fraudulent election.
The fact that he’s a fraudulent product himself at every level complicates matters, I realize. However, can we please just let him cook in his well-deserved steadily-heating pot and not help him out by giving him credit for “speaking out.”
He has only done the minimum at the latest moment possible. He’s a jerk.
Those bastards shot the girl.
http://xcontra.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/you-bastards-shot-the-girl/
#1: Way to be proved 100%, entirely wrong. How does that foot taste?
This website has some very disturbing updates about the situation:
raymankojast.blogspot.com
If anything makes me want to fight to keep our liberty in the USA, it’s watching that video. I feel like I’m going to throw up. Sickening.
57. Ms. Attitude: . . .”I and many others have come to realize that Sheesh is just some sort of crazy that’s here for our amusement. He claims to listen to the song, “Bomb, Bomb Iran” on the radio and he has some type of love for mustard…go figure.”
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you’re being obtuse . . . but just in case others here are actually ignorant of my references . . . “Bomb bomb bomb . . . bomb bomb Iran?” . . . that’s John McCain’s quote. Mustard? I refer you to the right wing apoplexy about Obama’s visit to 5 Guys burger shop where he *gasp* ordered a burger with spicy mustard!
Just a couple examples of the indefensible behavior of the right . . . no wonder you feign confusion. I wouldn’t want to be associated with that crap either. Go figure.
As for you, Mongoose, your empty indignation is hilarious . . . “Potato salad, INDEEEEED.” Perhaps you should bring the matter up with the vicar.
Exactly,Michael. The “Officer, they’re raiding the Piggly Wiggly” line in Animal House was a shrewd observation on law enforcement priorities, wasn’t it?
Meryl, I’m 100 percent with ya on that. Doh is the wait-n-see-in-chump-er-chief. When American Iranians got upset then suddenly ‘Doh’ grew a brain cell.
Sheeshers, I thought you said you have children? If so, have a nice Father’s Day and enjoy the spicy mustard and tater salad. I’m making pizza. No barbecue for leetle moi.
Obama is just waiting for which way the revolution goes. Then he can take credit for it with his tepid speeches. Just like the episode with the pirates, he will rewrite history and take credit for other’s courage. Already he is saying “as I have been saying all week” – Not!
Sheesh,
Wow, a (most likely) Western leftist cynical about a movement for freedom in the non-Western world.
Will wonders never cease?
Ken, I know this: Menachem Begin’s government was practically begging the Carter Administration to back the Shah more strenuously. Also, do you honestly say that if the Shah was in place, bombings such as what happened in Argentina would have taken place, or the truck bombing of US Marines in Lebanon, or any other atrocities attributable
to Iran that have been documented by former CIA director Woolsey.
One other thing, you cheapen your argument when you resort to cheap shots. Would you want to be called an empty head by someone who sees things differently than you?
67. venividivici: . . “Wow, a (most likely) Western leftist cynical about a movement for freedom in the non-Western world.”
I’m not cynical about a movement for freedom. I’m cynical about the self-serving situational angst of the right wing conservative movement. Proof? Look above.
Sheeshers, if the prezzy you voted for decided to ‘strategically’ bomb a few known “Duke er ‘Allah’ Nuke ‘em” facilities in Iran or NK or any other Country threatening us with nuclear capes… Would you be against it? Be careful with your answer because you may be tested later.
69. sheesh:
“Proof? Look above.”
So, you believe in God after all eh?
Just wanted to give kudos for another great article on this issue. Like I said, it’s getting harder and harder to find conservatives on this issue that care more about iranians than Obama.
Sheesh: Struck a nerve eh? what is it? Daddy sighing when he looks at you? Figured that was it.
77. Mongoose,
Sheesh is a gay man who lives with his ‘partner’ and has a couple children [perhaps from a previous hetero partner but I won't ASSume] in a trailer. Oddly, Sheesh has a gas guzzling ‘muscle car’ which he refuses to ‘trade in’ unless ‘DOH’ says so. Kinda weird but, hell. I like my Nintendo Wii so who am I judging?
Although this film is in Farsi, but you can CLEARLY see the election ballotS are stacked and filled out. The Farsi accent is not from Tehran, except one of the guy sounds like Tehrani accent. This is powerful to show how these people could have ACCESS to this many ballots. Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX7GkkSRvvs
70. Delia:
That’s easy. If the threat is real and imminent, I’m all for it. If we THINK they MIGHT BE starting to BEGIN something because we heard a RUMOR from an ALCOHOLIC CAB DRIVER in Tehran that we can’t CONFIRM or if we just WANT TO do it because there’s MONEY to be made or CONTRACTS to grant to COMPANIES I’m CONNECTED to or because there are OIL routes to grab or because they TRIED TO KILL MY POPPY . . . no, I wouldn’t do it.
Case in point: If North Korea launches a missile aimed at Hawaii as the latest rumor/intelligence suggests they might (which would really compete for media attention with those July 4 Tea Parties that you’ve all conveniently forgotten about), I would shoot down the missile and take out their missile facilities. If KJI merely continues to crow and threaten, that’s not reason enough to attack.
By the way, I DO believe in god . . . just not the kind you can paint.
Finally, I think you’re the only person here who even comes close to “getting” me. We’ll never agree on anything, but I sense a genuine “live and let live” about you.
I see now that he is getting unapproving commentary, the nit wit has made “a new statement” in regards to Iran! His hesitation and ‘rewording’, (we all recall in the primary his ‘what I really meant to say was…’), just makes him look MORE foolish and disingenuous.
The fool is out of his league…
Sheeshers,
I think you’ve grown to comfortable playing the ‘bad guy’ here. I honestly feel compassion for you. I am a ‘live and let live’ person. I have beliefs but I don’t want to thrust mine on someone else. Heck, I didn’t even impart my belief system on my daughter. I allowed her to watch me live my beliefs and judge them accordingly rather than FORCING them on her and she turned out to be a very sensible, well-rounded and courageous young woman.
You’re right that we will never agree, but, we can agree to disagree and poke a little friendly fun at each other without taking it too personally.
“That’s easy. If the threat is real and imminent, I’m all for it.”
It won’t be easy, it will be horrific if we have to come to that, but, I *gasp* ‘agree’ that if we are threatened, we should act and act FAST as possible.
77 Mongoose . . . You’re not that relevant. Stick with people who agree with you. You’ll feel less challenged (and more biodegradable). Dad sighing at me? I never experienced that. What’s it like?
I find it quite irksome for Ledeen to recommend reading Andrew Sullivan. Recommending this guy is like Karl Rove recommending James Carville or Paul Begala. Ledeen may well be a centrist but Sullivan is anything but. If Ledeen recommended Amir Taheri considering Iranian matters I would say Sure. Maybe Ledeen will recommend Taheri concerning gay matters. The only recommendations I give for Andrew “Slate” Sullivan is to print his articles, wipe your behind with it and throw it in the toilet. The problem with the Sullivans, the Bagala’s, the Maher’s et. al. is their total narrowmindedness. I cannot give credence to anything they say until they become more balanced and acceptable of opposing viewpoints.
65. sheesh:
‘…but just in case others here are actually ignorant of my references . . . “Bomb bomb bomb . . . bomb bomb Iran?” . . . that’s John McCain’s quote….’
No, it’s a take off on a Beach Boys song of the mid 1960′s called Baraba Ann. About the time your parents were born. The ‘bababa baba beran’ lyrics were first morphed into ‘bomb, bomb, bomb Iran’ during the US embassy hostage crisis in Iran during the Carter administration. 10 years or more before you were born. McCain was referring to the morphed lyrics of 1980 in a tongue in cheek way.
Stop lying.
…I refer you to the right wing apoplexy about Obama’s visit to 5 Guys burger shop where he *gasp* ordered a burger with spicy mustard!…
The apoplexy was on the left just as it has been over every perceived slight of Obama. As witnessed by the fact that you obsess about it long after.
Stop lying.
‘…Just a couple examples of the indefensible behavior of the right…’
Too stupid a statement reflecting too inane a worldview to properly address. let’s just call it moronic and leave it at that.
You are, you know, a perfectly despicable person. A poster child for all that is distorted and viscerally abhorrent about the fringe left.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7kwIiNndOcg/SPQjQ0ZQk2I/AAAAAAAAF_k/sqG37L6Gl20/s1600-h/palin3.jpg
I figure you to be the one on the left or second from the right.
73. Sheesh: “self-serving situational angst of the right wing conservative movement”
Umm, “the fierce urgency of now”? All that global warming disaster cult BS? Even granting that the Obama-cult might have meant “fierce” in the gold-lamé hotpants sense of the term, the nowness of the urgency seems both extremely angsty and situational. Health care reform NOW…NOW…NOW, people are dying without government mandated healthcare for the middle class. Please, maybe we just have different priorities, and there is nothing particularly situational about conservative worries. Ours are at any rate grounded in real disasters–9/11, 3/11, Tehran ’79, and the PROMISED destruction of Israel by those actively seeking the means–rather than posited a priorisms. Lemme see, a nuclear Korea was just one of the delusions of the fevered conservative mind, until lo and f-ing behold, there is a NUCLEAR N. KOREA. Fancy that. And same with Iran. It’s a trade off really. Get into bed (sorry chap I mean it only metaphorically) with the military types and take out a threat before it matures or prepare yourself to live in some measure according to the dictates of a nuclear state that advocates toppling a wall onto you. A light goes out here, and there, and little by little civilization contracts, because it’s uncivilized to fight for it.
80 Delia . . . That’s cool. Don’t waste your compassion on me, though. Save it for somebody who needs it. I have an incredibly full and rewarding life. When someone asks me, “How are you?” my answer is always the same . . . “Happy and grateful.” Now tell all these conservative freak show carnies here that you call your friends to get a clue and stop being played for such patsies by the neocon media complex.
” Now tell all these conservative freak show carnies here that you call your friends to get a clue and stop being played for such patsies by the neocon media complex.”
*OUCH*
-But, you never disagree with my assessment of you. Am I right or am I right, home slice?
BTW Sheeshers,
I bet everything you currently feel ‘grateful’ for is something that can be attributed to someone who sacrificed life and limb for liberty.
Just sayin’
Sheesh: haha. Projecting again, I see. Really struck a nerve there about Pops, didn’t I?
Is that what you tell Mommy?
Too funny. The truth comes out.
You should get a job in a movie theater…might be a step up in pay too.
I bet my EA is better educated than you, better paid too.
You know, your parents shame will only grow. Not your prospects though…those will keep shrinking. Hint: that is one of the reasons they feel that shame.
Cannot get around it.
67. sheesh:
It appears from all of your posts on PJM that you are the one that is soooo into the mustard and bombing Iran.
So, according to you, we should change the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of Revenge?
North Korea has already brokent the 2006 Security Council resolution prohibiting Pyongyang from conducting ballistic missile launches. And “shooting down” the missle, thank God that Obama’s desire to cut missle defense hasn’t been done yet.
I’m not cynical about a movement for freedom. I’m cynical about the self-serving situational angst of the right wing conservative movement. Proof? Look above.
That’s right, I forgot that only lefties support various “movements” out of motives that are as pure as the driven snow.
Stick your cynicism where your head is. I’m pretty sure you can guess the location from my disdain for you.
GW Bush is vindicated. His pro-democracy policy in the Middle East proves that it is infectious, and that is why Mr. Obama has not been forceful in demanding the Iranian leadership to allow the protestors to demonstrate. If Reagan, Bush I, Bush II was President today, any of them would be capitalizing on this incredible turn of events in the Middle East and would be pushing the Iranian leadership to work towards change for democracy and freedom.
Obama will look like an idiot if he now encourages the pro-democracy movement in Iran because it will show that he was wrong after all, and that what Bush said, which was that EVERYONE longs for democracy, justice and freedom is true and accurate. It proves once and for all that going into Iraq was the right move, and that Iranians want the same freedom and democracy that Iraqis now enjoy, albeit still in its infancy — still, Iraq is a democracy as opposed to Iran, which is not.
Obama was wrong once again.
Thanks for the intelligent engagement from all the thoughtful posters.
Here’s a link to a stirring article about what happened today.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/opinion/21tehran.html
Let’s all keep Iran in our thoughts and prayers.
I think dog-piling on certain people doesn’t really make us look any better than the people we are annoyed with. When we are at our best, we will always be ‘facts first’, emotions later. I’ve been the worst at doing the ‘emotions first’ responses and I’m ashamed of myself for letting anyone get my proverbial ‘goat’.
I’m going to try my best ‘tolerate’ rather than ‘obliterate’ people who are obviously consumed with confusion and desperation and issues of intolerance of their own. Sometimes, the people who don’t think they ‘need’ compassion are the very people who need it the most.
I think dog-piling on certain people doesn’t really make us look any better than the people we are annoyed with.
For me, the time for “looking better” will be when the “people we are annoyed with” are gone and forgotten.
Just my perspective and I don’t expect it to be shared by everyone.
Sheesh and his many alts have said some pretty mean and ugly things to me and I in turn have given it right back to him and weirdly, we have come to respect each other and stop being so downright ugly and mean-spirited towards one another. Yes, he can be annoying, yes, he’s here to stir the pot, yes, he’s got issues and yes, he’s in the tank for 0bama.
All I’m sayin’ is, what if we just ignored him or told him to have a nice day rather than verbally engage him, especially if he’s off-topic?
On-topic, legit posts deserve recognition, but spastic off-topic ones can best be served by being ignored completely or a nice ‘g’day’.
Sheesh ain’t so bad. He’s just misunderstood methinks.
Obami only reacts he does not lead. Why did this statement come out after the congress and senate had already spoken about the matter, perhaps it is his slipping polls and increasing disfavor that have just surfaced.
I do not support this guy or any of his policies or ideas. To think that Janet Napolitano has classified me a Vietnam Era Vet (honorably discharged) and Christian that supports the second amendment (the right to keep and bear arms) and believes in personal responsibility as a potential terrorist is something I would never have thought possible.
Also never would I have thought that such an organization as A.C.O.R.N which is clearly a partisan left wing outfit with a non profit status be given billions of dollars from the taxpayers to continue their endeavors, but that is so. When the evidence was clear that the “New Black Panther Party” was intimidating voters and outright dismissed by the U.S. AG Holder then what makes you think this guy or any in his administration are really looking out for the country, cause they clearly are not.
There are people prepared to die in Iran right now. If you believe in God, please, please, please let us all pray for them.
Watching this makes me thank the Lord every day that I was born in the USA.
95. Delia:
You’re such the peace maker but with a good point. I like to banter with my very liberal friends about politics. I also like talking religion with my friends who believe differently than me. We all love each other any way so we never get into name calling or yelling. On here, it’s a different story and I too will take your pledge of tolerance!
We can learn from opposing views on subjects but sometimes on here it gets difficult when the person with the opposing view calls you a name or attacks your character. I lash back.
I’ve been watching different news sources and have been on the internet regarding the situation in Iran. A big part of me can see Obama’s reluctance to get involved because of the repercussions that can occur to our country. All I can say is that he wanted to be President of the United States, I don’t and I’m glad I don’t have to make his decision.
I hope the Iranian people survive and win. Even if the form of government they want isn’t the same as what we want them to have but they should be able to choose that by having their votes counted.
I’m about to go eat dinner with my Liberal Christian friend and my Conservative Agnostic friend. We’ll have a blast! BTW: I’m a Conservative Christian.
attention
An Egyptian guy found out that the baby picture was taken out of this Pal video
http://bit.ly/SHZof
that the Iran-Resist site owner (pro Reza Pahlavi) set in his site
and that I used to trust
95. Delia:
You’re wrong on many counts.
first:
sheesh is not a driveby troll. He has nothing better to do with his life and time than to incite a reaction on this site – and undoubtedly others – and revel in the attention. Doesn’t matter that it’s negative. Doesn’t matter that the perception of him, and the mindseye image of him, is unflattering (to say the least). He isn’t going to go away until he’s banned, and then will reappear, assuming he can mask his IP or get another, under another name. He’s not going to mature out of it naturally either. It’ll take a huge shock, on the lines of tragedy that touches him personally, to grow him up. If that, as I suspect he’s the type that will simply project his responsibility onto whatever target is convenient.
second:
You are a reflective citizen who exercises her franchise in responsible way. He represents everything that is wrong about those who exercise their franchise irresponsibly. He despises you and everything you subscribe to. To give him anything back but your despite in return enables him.
third:
People with the mindset of sheesh are historically responsible for endless suffering and death in the name of social engineering. They believe themselves blameless because they are not the ones pulling the trigger. They just enable those who do. Do not enable him in return.
fourth:
I will not forget nor forgive those responsible for shackling America’s attempt to pre-preemptively defend itself during the last 6 or so years, when the avoidable tragedy that will inevitably occur because of that shackling takes place. It will be more difficult for you to judge them for what they are then if you engage them as if their agenda now is simply misunderstood.
Wow. I’m honored. Such . . . intensity. Lots of guessing about me, so here’s the stuff you really need to know. Yes, I’m here to stir the pot. No, I’m not young. Yes, I deal in emotion. No, I don’t get paid for this. Yes, I’m smart as hell. No, I’m not gay. Yes, everything is going to get better. No, I don’t think Republicans “get” it. Yes, I think conservatives get off on forbidding things. No, I don’t think we should ban guns. Yes, I think fundamentalist Christians are sexually repressed. No, I don’t think Obama is an idiot. Yes, I am the funniest writer here. No, I don’t respect anything about Fox News. Yes, I think everybody is a hypocrite, it’s just that Republicans are particularly arrogant and objectionable about it. No, I’ve never been on any form of public aid. Yes, I think we should close the borders. No, I don’t think churches should be tax exempt. Yes, I believe global warming is a threat. No, I don’t think conservatives are any braver than liberals. Yes, I think liberals are more creative than conservatives, a lot more. No, I don’t feel compelled to provide footnotes or case studies or white papers or a newsmax link or anything else to legitimize anything I write. Yes, I beat you at your own game a lot more often that you would like or are willing to admit. (ain’t that right, Malvo?) No, you can’t take you eyes off me. Yes, indeed.
There, that oughtta keep you busy.
Delia
They have been gassed, they were shot, and they are, as you say, prepared to die.
Some of them.
Unfortunately many of US people (and Canadian people and European people) are looking at this from parochial point of view (will it be better for dems/cons……….and for Obama,…..and for this or that faction in EU ). Shouldn’t they ask themselves: would this be better for whole of US (like for us, the people in the west) in a long run?
Ms. Attitude,
I’m just trying my damndest to understand someone’s mindset without feeling the knee jerk attack syndrome with which they propel on my me. Combative rhetoric gets tiresome.
Just Passing Through,
Ahh. Perhaps you have not been here very long but, Sheesh and his alts have had many a ‘dalliance’ in arguments. There is hardly anything compelling that comes from ‘sheesh’ except for sheer lonliness and impotence but I’ve felt that way many a time in life so I can’t fault him for that.
ella, can you imagine dying for your freedom? How man people would be so brave in our own country? We have been lazy cows grazing on ‘government’ takeover. Pathetic.
Here . . . I’ll show you:
first:
“sheesh is not a driveby troll.” Sure, I am.
“He has nothing better to do with his life and time than to incite a reaction on this site- and undoubtedly others”
I have many better things to do. Doesn’t everybody? No, I don’t post to any other site.
“(He revels) in the attention. Doesn’t matter that it’s negative. Doesn’t matter that the perception of him, and the mindseye image of him, is unflattering (to say the least). He isn’t going to go away until he’s banned, and then will reappear, assuming he can mask his IP or get another, under another name.”
Yes on all counts, though I might go away. I’ll let you know.
“He’s not going to mature out of it naturally either. It’ll take a huge shock, on the lines of tragedy that touches him personally, to grow him up.”
I’m as mature as I want to be. And why would you want to wish something tragic on anyone?
“If that, as I suspect he’s the type that will simply project his responsibility onto whatever target is convenient.”
If I knew what that meant, I’d reply.
second:
“You are a reflective citizen who exercises her franchise in responsible way. He represents everything that is wrong about those who exercise their franchise irresponsibly.”
OK, I admit it, my franchise has put on a few pounds lately. And I’m not very reflective. I tend to absorb light. (Is that what you meant? I don’t want to be unresponsive.)
“He despises you and everything you subscribe to.”
I think Delia, the person you are “advising”, would say otherwise.
“To give him anything back but your despite in return enables him.”
Who can argue with that?
third:
“People with the mindset of sheesh are historically responsible for endless suffering and death in the name of social engineering.”
You’re on to me. The Holocaust, the gulags, intergenerational poverty – it’s all been me. I admit it. I’ll try to do better.
“They believe themselves blameless because they are not the ones pulling the trigger. They just enable those who do. Do not enable him in return.”
Tell me, who do I call to enable them to pull triggers and create suffering and death? I don’t know anybody like that. Do they have an 800 number?
fourth:
“I will not forget nor forgive those responsible for shackling America’s attempt to pre-preemptively defend itself during the last 6 or so years, when the avoidable tragedy that will inevitably occur because of that shackling takes place.”
I’m sorry, who got shackled how? And is this thing you’re so afraid of avoidable or inevitable? Those two words only SOUND the same. They actually have different meanings. Kind of opposite in way.
“It will be more difficult for you to judge them for what they are then if you engage them as if their agenda now is simply misunderstood.”
Move over, Asimov, Just Passing Through is here.
OK, gotta go. Talk amongst yourselves.
The above said now i would also like to caution that it seems quite possible that the second revolution (going on now) may also be hijacked by someone. In my view it is probable that this someone might be Rafsanjani.
But at the moment let’s hope that Ahmadinejad disappears from everybody view and protesters will get what they wish and pray and demonstrate for.
I wish them luck and victory.
Delia
But I am not American, so yes, I can imagine people dying for freedom, or at least for bettering their own lot.
Sheesh #103
This pathetic, inadequate little person has written a long paragraph about HIMSELF in a thread about what’s happening in Iran! Isn’t that the left all over – self-indulgent, self regarding, shallow, vain, supremely ignorant and morally confused. And what about this:
“Yes, I think conservatives get off on forbidding things”
This from someone on the left, whose greatest collective fear is that somebody, somewhere, might be enjoying themselves . . or that independent thought might lead to dancing.
This idiot – who, I repeat, has written an adoring paragraph about HIMSELF in a thread about an event of profound global significance – should be ignored. I would say he’s a troll, but a troll intrudes just to enjoy the controversy he/she creates; this guy does it just to draw attention to himself.
No, sheesh, you are a human being who has obviously suffered a lot of cruelty and inhumanity in your life. Welcome to club ‘messed up’. Stop blaming people who never did squat to you by branding ‘right wingers’ as the evil perps.
I have nothing against gay men! Do you know that certain hormones that don’t cross the placent properly can cause boys to feel like girls and visa versa? It’s rare but it DOES happen.
Gay people who are just ‘playing around’ though have no sympathy with me.
108 lefroy . . . Vanity and ego on a blog . . . what are the chances?
Here you go . . . “This idiot – who, I repeat, has written a critical paragraph about SHEESH in a thread about an event of profound global significance – should be ignored.”
Oopsie! (Don’t worry, it wipes off.)
109 . . . I take it back. You don’t “get” it.
BTW, gender dysmorphia is another thing that Islam is against and they behead and genitally mutilate boys who are born with ‘both sets’ or are who are ‘gay’.
Islamic countries need to revolt against the hate and cruetly to women, gays and children.
Our False Prophet appears to have no idea what a golden opportunity he’s passing up… overthrow this evil regime without firing a single shot… get their Armageddon-inspired nuke program off the world stage… and free 30 million people all at one time. But the boy wonder is too stupid to see it… or somehow just doesn’t care?
And isn’t this what George W Bush told you was going to happen in the Middle East in the wake of Iraq’s liberation?
Maybe that’s why Barack Obama has so little apparent interest in finishing the job in Iran… no matter how much it benefits the US and free world.
That, and the fact that he’s already piled all his chips on legitimizing this vile regime- a democratic revolution at this point would be embarrassing.
111. sheesh,
Oh, yes. I ‘get’ it, Sheeshers.
So which is it, ‘choice’ or ‘affinity’?
I suspect that the excellent Mr. Ledeen wants to give our own Dear Leader (Backtrack Mudstain O’Blabber) somewhat too much credit.
True, the force of events and the clamoring voices around him are bit by bit forcing him to utter mildly supportive sentiments toward the Persian people, but clearly, nothing he couldn’t plausibly apologize away to the Mad Mullahs … if they grant him an audience.
Next to Reagan and previous American presidents O’Blather is a moral midget.
113. Reaganite Republican Resistance,
I think I lerve you.
AWESOME POST.
Yes, I’m smart as hell.
Based on what? That you believe certain things? What’s your IQ? If you go on and on about how the test is biased, I will have to guess it’s under 130. If it’s under 170, who really cares?
Overthrow a regime without firing a single shot… right because Putin is a great friend of the west. We traded one enemy for another. Let’s stop mythmaking about the world. Berlin wall came down and we still got nukes pointed at each other, and we’re still trying to put up missile defense in poland.
Always so quick to declare a problem solved.
LOL! I’m looking forward to the Obama Ahmadinejad photo op after their “negotiation”. The campaign commercials are already writing themselves.
Okay, you’re keelink me here. Your I.Q.? I know mine is small taters in the time space contin-aling-a-ding-dong, but c’mon…show me the numero.
My I.Q was judged 157 first try and I re-took the test and scored 185 when a year later I took the test again. I felt I had an unfair advantage when I “re-took” the I.Q. test and so I feel that 157 is more fair for me and more accurate.
What about the ‘E.Q.’ test? What about ‘feelings’ and ‘care’ for those of us who are suffering?
I’m guessing around 110-115 IQ for sheesh. Leftists with intellectual pretensions are typically just a little smarter than average and they band together to tell themselves that because they’re smarter than average, they must be geniuses. Meanwhile, real geniuses are off doing their own thing and have no use for the collectivist mindset embedded in today’s Left.
Delia,
This was a post and thread that should have focused on the monumental struggle of a the people in Iran. sheesh, in his post #29, treated the subject exactly the way one would expect of him. I am guilty of not staying on the point of the post as well, but unlike a drive by troll, sheesh needs to be recognized for what he is.
sheesh is no challenge to understand as far as why he choses to infest every thread and discussion here. He gives that away in his own words about the fantasy life he leads here:
‘No, you can’t take you eyes off me. Yes, indeed.’
I haven’t been around this site too long, it’s true. Nonetheless, I’ve been here long enough to see that, leaving his rationale for posting here, sheesh has easily settled into a method of trolling that embodies the quintessential attributes of the progressive left bottom dweller. He is articulate enough to have been educated or is in the process of being educated. Despite that, he has been, or is being, poorly educated because he mistakes his being indoctrinated as being taught to think. He may be lucky in life, but he is not successful in leading it. He believes in the free lunch and takes responsibility for nothing. And above all, he is a liar.
As an individual, he is inconsequential in every way, but in the aggregate, he and the rest of the marching morons like him are vastly dangerous unless they are confronted.
121. venividivici:
The current brood of leftists with intellectual pretensions are the ones whose parents were convinced they had a talented and gifted sprout. They were doted on, coddled, and given everything in life but values. They band together not just to tell themselves that because they’re smarter than average, they must be geniuses. They do so also because their peers that are just as smart or smarter but do have values, and consequentially are able to live their lives independent of the need for constant approbation, scares the bejesus out of them. They also recognize their need for someone to stand between them and the boogums in the world. And they resent that intensely.
Can Iranians win?
A view of a Russian immigrant.
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2009/06/can-iranians-win.html
Mousavi was prime minister in 1981 and served for eight years. During this period he won a reputation as a hardliner who denounced America as the “Great Satan” He joyfully sent suicide bombers to kill 244 of my fellow marines in Beirut.
If he is martyred and his naked body is dragged through the streets of Tehran …….. GREAT!
Maybe his martyrdom will get the Grand Mullah eliminated and little Aberdinerjerkoff will be buried up to his short neck and stoned.
114. Reaganite Republican Resistance:
Bingo! Bulls Eye!
Have a cigar.
venividivici, navel gazerzzzzzzz are oft prone to thinking only of themselves. I share a lot of personal pain here and I think nave gazel extraordinaire can’t help but realize I’m a ‘real’ person. I think ‘navel gazer’ is a real person too and thusly treat him as such.
I dunno. Some people just grow on ya…love or hate. lol
Applying Lenin’s theory of revolution to the Iranian situation
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2009/06/revolution-in-iran-quoting-lenin.html
A nuclear Iran is a threat to Israel, Europe and the United States. The French president recognizes this. It would be surprising if the German chancellor did not. Iranians are in the streets meeting death and grave injury to oppose Iranian leadership. As to the weak response of the President of the United States: the less said about it, the better.
131. Paul M Hupf,
Unfortch it’s gonna take a big ‘KABOOM!’ for dim-5tard prezzy to ‘react’, and by then it will be too late.
referring to my post 101, the baby pic has been removed from the site following my mail
I may have to give up on PM. The quality of discourse here is very poor. A lot of chest beating and oneupmanship is about all that goes on.
You post-modern drones go on and on with your petty arguments here while the lives of millions in Iran hang in the balance. This thread should have been reserved for actual discussion and dissemination of real news.
This is not a game you twits.
Even OUR lives in the West may hang in the balance … as well as so many Iranians.
How dare you trivialize this issue with your stupidity?!?!
PEACE
Nobody mentioned the ‘Peace’ ‘two-finger’ sign held up in the protests.
I think that’s pretty effing amazing, brave and COOL.
134. scott,
Yes, please go back to Huffpo. You won’t be missed here. EVER.
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
134-
Like my comments are going to affect the lives of millions of Iranians?
pres. hopenchange didn’t say anything until he realized his dialog with Aberdinerjerkoff will probably be held in exile in Libya.
Huffpo is missing an idiot.
I want to hear now from those Leftists who literally wept with rage and hysteria as they accused Bush of being a facsist dictator. What, not a word? Too busy proclaiming your love for the Supreme Leader, and the Dear Leader and president-for-life Chavez? You miserable little nazi scrotes, you are a disgrace to progressivism!
Measuring each other’s IQs?
That sounds a little . . . what were the word lefroy used? . . . “self-indulgent, self regarding, shallow, vain”
It also brings perfect clarity to why I “infest” this site . . . to shine a light on hypocrisy. What else do you want to measure?
As for Just Passing Through . . . you’re certainly ambitious in your pocket psychology, but you’re gonna have to move beyond guesswork and pick something provable. Unfortunately, you can’t prove anything, but don’t let that stop you. Guess away . . .
Scott et. al. have a point.
There is nothing that can be done about sheesh and his many incarnation’s infantile need for attention and self-centered blathering (“MUSTARD!”, #103). Responding to his childishness provides the positive feedback he seeks thus encouraging more of the same.
124:
“This was a post and thread that should have focused on the monumental struggle of a the people in Iran.”
141. sheesh,
Intelligence quotients mean nada if you don’t have heart-n-soul. Eh? Kinda like navel gazin’. You dig? Hey, lint!
*AS TO TOPIC* -cough-cough-
Thank you, Mr. Ledeen for keeping us updated on this even [which is pretty huge].
‘even’ was supposed to be ‘event’ btw.
*smacks self with rubber chicken upside the head*
There are new threads on the events in Iran, and we can always hope that sheesh has the common decency to refrain from attention seeking in them.
sheesh, you are pathetically easy to read. You’re not here to ‘infest’ this site because of any need to expose hypocrisy. That is nothing more than one of the lies you tell yourself to compensate for leading your small, inconsequential, and irrelevant life. That lie comes as easy to you as the lies about your success, your intelligence…your relevance. You’re here for exactly the reason you let slip in comment 103:
‘No, you can’t take you eyes off me. Yes, indeed.’
You’re not here with any intent to contribute anything of substance to any discussion. I don’t think you even understand most of the discussions. But you’ll disrupt every discussion you can on this site with your white noise just because you can. And as long as you’re allowed to do so, you’ll continue to figuratively march about, banging a spoon on a pot as hard as you can, just as you did when you were 4, 8, 10, 12 years old, so that the attention of every adult in the room focuses on you:
‘No, you can’t take you eyes off me. Yes, indeed.’
That’ll go on until the moderators have had enough of you, and quite honestly have had enough of the reaction of those commenters who have long had enough of you, and send you on your way to infest some another site.
Just Passing Through, I hope you are having a nice day. Sheesh wants attention in the worst way and I suggest we give him so much saccharin sweetness that he scampers away. He likes/thrives on negative vibes. Positive affirmations wig him out. I’ve got his number and I know him more than he’d like me to.
Beware of the Delia.
Brave people in Iran. I don’t know how brave I would be in that situation.
May God be with these Iranians in their struggle. No one should hold such authority over a people as the Iranian gov/cleric does. It’s wrong!
Not surprised to hear about the plainclothes police, razor blades etc. Surprised outside forces are not there yet to help the religious zealots.
ALSO!!!! Just ignore “SHEESH”…don’t respond to whatever it is he says, anywhere…there seems to be a bit of education going on there, but not substance, merely hatred and by responding …you feed it.