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	<title>Comments on: Herod, Augustus, and Us</title>
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		<title>By: m lazerson</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5518</link>
		<dc:creator>m lazerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5518</guid>
		<description>Your recognition that progress does not follow in a continuum and that the future may not necessarily be an improvement over the past recalls the following words of Walter Benjamin, who unfortunately failed to fully absorb the import of his ideas and break decisively with Marxism and all of its pernicious penumbras.

&quot;His face is turned towards the past. Where we perceive a chain of events, he sees one single catastrophe which keeps piling wreckage upon wreckage and hurls it in front of his feet. The angel would like to stay, awaken the dead, and make whole what has been smashed. But a storm is blowing from Paradise; it has got caught in his wings with such violence that the angel can no longer close them. This storm irresistibly propels him into the future to which his back is turned, while the pile of debris before him grows skyward. This storm is what we call progress.&quot; (from Illuminations, Benjamin 1992, 249)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your recognition that progress does not follow in a continuum and that the future may not necessarily be an improvement over the past recalls the following words of Walter Benjamin, who unfortunately failed to fully absorb the import of his ideas and break decisively with Marxism and all of its pernicious penumbras.</p>
<p>&#8220;His face is turned towards the past. Where we perceive a chain of events, he sees one single catastrophe which keeps piling wreckage upon wreckage and hurls it in front of his feet. The angel would like to stay, awaken the dead, and make whole what has been smashed. But a storm is blowing from Paradise; it has got caught in his wings with such violence that the angel can no longer close them. This storm irresistibly propels him into the future to which his back is turned, while the pile of debris before him grows skyward. This storm is what we call progress.&#8221; (from Illuminations, Benjamin 1992, 249)</p>
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		<title>By: heather</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5514</link>
		<dc:creator>heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5514</guid>
		<description>&quot;What I wonder is if Israel is doing archeology for the sake of archeology OR it wants to use historical findings to justify kicking out people from those lands just because over 1000+ years ago someone was living there, like in the West Bank and other places.&quot;

Well, I have read silly, stupid remarks, but this one takes the cake.  You know, the Israelis are leaders in archaeology.  And underneath the Temple Mount, the Arabs crawl around like moles destroying any sign of ancient civilizations that they come across.

One of the attributes of Judeo/Christian/Hellenic Western Civilization (that others, like India and even China, are adopting) is an interest and respect in The Other.  And that is the true problem of tribe-based societies like the Middle Eastern Islamic cultures:  when they cannot ignore The Other, they hate it.  Hence, poverty and ignorance.

Which is why I am on Israel&#039;s side in this War of Civilization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What I wonder is if Israel is doing archeology for the sake of archeology OR it wants to use historical findings to justify kicking out people from those lands just because over 1000+ years ago someone was living there, like in the West Bank and other places.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I have read silly, stupid remarks, but this one takes the cake.  You know, the Israelis are leaders in archaeology.  And underneath the Temple Mount, the Arabs crawl around like moles destroying any sign of ancient civilizations that they come across.</p>
<p>One of the attributes of Judeo/Christian/Hellenic Western Civilization (that others, like India and even China, are adopting) is an interest and respect in The Other.  And that is the true problem of tribe-based societies like the Middle Eastern Islamic cultures:  when they cannot ignore The Other, they hate it.  Hence, poverty and ignorance.</p>
<p>Which is why I am on Israel&#8217;s side in this War of Civilization.</p>
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		<title>By: heather</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5513</link>
		<dc:creator>heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5513</guid>
		<description>The Roman Empire lasted 600 years.  Some 36 countries exist on the lands it once ruled.

St. Patrick lived towards the end of the Roman Empire.  As an escaped slave, he left Ireland  with some sailors, landed (on Britain or the Continent, it is unclear), and has this to say about a land that had a few years before, bustled with human activity:
&quot;And after three days we reached land, and for 28 days we travelled through deserted country....&quot; which means either everyone still alive was hiding out (the nice communally oriented Germanic Tribes were raiding throughout the Empire), or perhaps most people were dead in huge swatches of either Britain or Gaul, take your pick.

City life in Western Europe died when the Roman Empire died.  The few cities that managed to make it through the Dark Ages to the year 1000 CE were ones fortunate enough to have a series of capable Bishops who, among other things, led the rebuilding of city walls, ones that had not been needed when Rome&#039;s Law prevailed.

Yes, Rome had slaves.  But so did every other human group in the world and in history (including in such small populations as the Alaskan Tlingit and the Athapascan Dog Rib).  If you could force someone else to haul the water and clean up your mess, and you had no plumbing or electricity, then you bought a slave!

When Wilberforce and Clarkson and the British Quakers set out to bring about the end of slavery they were doing something that had never been done before in human history.  

Judging Rome by our comfy standards is a fools&#039; game.  There are plenty of reasons to disapprove of that Empire, but it deserves our respect at least.  It was its memory that helped build our own civilization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Roman Empire lasted 600 years.  Some 36 countries exist on the lands it once ruled.</p>
<p>St. Patrick lived towards the end of the Roman Empire.  As an escaped slave, he left Ireland  with some sailors, landed (on Britain or the Continent, it is unclear), and has this to say about a land that had a few years before, bustled with human activity:<br />
&#8220;And after three days we reached land, and for 28 days we travelled through deserted country&#8230;.&#8221; which means either everyone still alive was hiding out (the nice communally oriented Germanic Tribes were raiding throughout the Empire), or perhaps most people were dead in huge swatches of either Britain or Gaul, take your pick.</p>
<p>City life in Western Europe died when the Roman Empire died.  The few cities that managed to make it through the Dark Ages to the year 1000 CE were ones fortunate enough to have a series of capable Bishops who, among other things, led the rebuilding of city walls, ones that had not been needed when Rome&#8217;s Law prevailed.</p>
<p>Yes, Rome had slaves.  But so did every other human group in the world and in history (including in such small populations as the Alaskan Tlingit and the Athapascan Dog Rib).  If you could force someone else to haul the water and clean up your mess, and you had no plumbing or electricity, then you bought a slave!</p>
<p>When Wilberforce and Clarkson and the British Quakers set out to bring about the end of slavery they were doing something that had never been done before in human history.  </p>
<p>Judging Rome by our comfy standards is a fools&#8217; game.  There are plenty of reasons to disapprove of that Empire, but it deserves our respect at least.  It was its memory that helped build our own civilization.</p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5511</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5511</guid>
		<description>&quot;Harvard used to brag that it was devoted to excellence, excelsior.&quot;

Harvard University is still devoted to excellence---in the hard sciences.  I&#039;m sure a medical practitioner trained at this academic institution is among the very best in the entire world.  Alas, it is the graduates of the softer sciences that leave much to be desired.  Most of these folks seem to be politically correct idiots.  Allow me to be blunt: they learned to place their wet finger into the air to see which way the wind is blowing.  The abandonment of their intellectual integrity was essentially required as the price of admission. 

“You Brits assume that if you had lived in the Roman Empire you would have been Senators or Consuls. I realize that it’s much more likely that I would have been a slave!”

That is most assuredly the truth of the matter.  The Romans were similar to Nazis.  They were racists and held outsiders in utter contempt.  However, they did create legal and political institutions deserving of respect.  In all fairness, the Roman philosophical thinkers were similar to our own Founding Fathers.  The American Constitution is also a splendid document---but it excluded blacks and other other minorities in its earliest interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Harvard used to brag that it was devoted to excellence, excelsior.&#8221;</p>
<p>Harvard University is still devoted to excellence&#8212;in the hard sciences.  I&#8217;m sure a medical practitioner trained at this academic institution is among the very best in the entire world.  Alas, it is the graduates of the softer sciences that leave much to be desired.  Most of these folks seem to be politically correct idiots.  Allow me to be blunt: they learned to place their wet finger into the air to see which way the wind is blowing.  The abandonment of their intellectual integrity was essentially required as the price of admission. </p>
<p>“You Brits assume that if you had lived in the Roman Empire you would have been Senators or Consuls. I realize that it’s much more likely that I would have been a slave!”</p>
<p>That is most assuredly the truth of the matter.  The Romans were similar to Nazis.  They were racists and held outsiders in utter contempt.  However, they did create legal and political institutions deserving of respect.  In all fairness, the Roman philosophical thinkers were similar to our own Founding Fathers.  The American Constitution is also a splendid document&#8212;but it excluded blacks and other other minorities in its earliest interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Uzi</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5509</link>
		<dc:creator>Uzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5509</guid>
		<description>Dear Dr. Ledeen,

I fear that you make the common mistake of equating technological advancement with civilization and culture. Herod was a great builder of monuments and public works, but  also a psychopathic killer who arranged for the murder of his wife, of two of his sons,of two of his brothers-in-law and of his mother-in-law, and who - anticipating his own death - had hundreds of hostages taken, from every town and village in the Land of Israel, and gave orders to have them all executed on the day of his own death, so that even if Israel would not mourn for Herod, when Herod died, Israel would mourn.

 The New Testament story of Herod ordering  the murder of all male babies born in Bethlehem - forcing Jesus&#039; family to flee to Egypt - resembles the story of Pharoah and the Israelite babies (including the infant Moses) so much that it may not be historically true, but it certainly shows what Herod&#039;s contemporaries thought he was capable of.

The Colloseum in Rome is an architectural and engineering masterpiece, but its construction was financed by the property plundered by the Roman armies in Judea while suppressing the Great Revolt, in the process of which they also killed an estimated one million Jews. Culture? How civilized did the audience in the Colloseum appear to the Christian and Jewish martyrs who were sent there to be eaten alive by lions and tigers, for the entertainment of the people of Rome?

We can all agree that Hadrian&#039;s Wall is a pretty impressive piece of engineering, but it is named after the Roman Emperor who massacred the Jews of Alexandria, killing at least fifty thousand, including women and children, and then went on to kill another six hundred thousand Jews while burning and razing over a thousand towns and villages in Israel in response to the Bar Cochba Rebellion. Effective? Yes. Civilized? By whose standards?

My father-in-law is a retired professor of Classics at the Hebrew University, and when he decides to have some sport with one of his British colleagues who goes on and on about the wonders of ancient Rome, he likes to say this: &quot;You Brits assume that if you had lived in the Roman Empire you would have been Senators or Consuls. I realize that it&#039;s much more likely that I would have been a slave!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dr. Ledeen,</p>
<p>I fear that you make the common mistake of equating technological advancement with civilization and culture. Herod was a great builder of monuments and public works, but  also a psychopathic killer who arranged for the murder of his wife, of two of his sons,of two of his brothers-in-law and of his mother-in-law, and who &#8211; anticipating his own death &#8211; had hundreds of hostages taken, from every town and village in the Land of Israel, and gave orders to have them all executed on the day of his own death, so that even if Israel would not mourn for Herod, when Herod died, Israel would mourn.</p>
<p> The New Testament story of Herod ordering  the murder of all male babies born in Bethlehem &#8211; forcing Jesus&#8217; family to flee to Egypt &#8211; resembles the story of Pharoah and the Israelite babies (including the infant Moses) so much that it may not be historically true, but it certainly shows what Herod&#8217;s contemporaries thought he was capable of.</p>
<p>The Colloseum in Rome is an architectural and engineering masterpiece, but its construction was financed by the property plundered by the Roman armies in Judea while suppressing the Great Revolt, in the process of which they also killed an estimated one million Jews. Culture? How civilized did the audience in the Colloseum appear to the Christian and Jewish martyrs who were sent there to be eaten alive by lions and tigers, for the entertainment of the people of Rome?</p>
<p>We can all agree that Hadrian&#8217;s Wall is a pretty impressive piece of engineering, but it is named after the Roman Emperor who massacred the Jews of Alexandria, killing at least fifty thousand, including women and children, and then went on to kill another six hundred thousand Jews while burning and razing over a thousand towns and villages in Israel in response to the Bar Cochba Rebellion. Effective? Yes. Civilized? By whose standards?</p>
<p>My father-in-law is a retired professor of Classics at the Hebrew University, and when he decides to have some sport with one of his British colleagues who goes on and on about the wonders of ancient Rome, he likes to say this: &#8220;You Brits assume that if you had lived in the Roman Empire you would have been Senators or Consuls. I realize that it&#8217;s much more likely that I would have been a slave!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ran</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5507</link>
		<dc:creator>Ran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5507</guid>
		<description>Michael, 
I hope I&#039;ve not missed your point:  It is rather odd, then, that bigoted cultural elitists evicted Lawrence Summers.

It&#039;s not the elite schools so much as their collective failure to produce more Randy Barnett&#039;s and Thomas Sowell&#039;s.  Libertarians and Conservatives presently offer the only substantive and creative debate over the future of our Nation [and thus of the West.]  

Hell, the present Administration-in-waiting is nothing less than a marvelous recipe for alphabet soup using only the left-side of the alphabet - a recipe for disaster.  These enlightened creatures are devoted to re-writing the Constitution.  Are they any less an existential threat than is Iran?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
I hope I&#8217;ve not missed your point:  It is rather odd, then, that bigoted cultural elitists evicted Lawrence Summers.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the elite schools so much as their collective failure to produce more Randy Barnett&#8217;s and Thomas Sowell&#8217;s.  Libertarians and Conservatives presently offer the only substantive and creative debate over the future of our Nation [and thus of the West.]  </p>
<p>Hell, the present Administration-in-waiting is nothing less than a marvelous recipe for alphabet soup using only the left-side of the alphabet &#8211; a recipe for disaster.  These enlightened creatures are devoted to re-writing the Constitution.  Are they any less an existential threat than is Iran?</p>
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		<title>By: Alireza</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5501</link>
		<dc:creator>Alireza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5501</guid>
		<description>What I wonder is if Israel is doing archeology for the sake of archeology OR it wants to use historical findings to justify kicking out people from those lands just because over 1000+ years ago someone was living there, like in the West Bank and other places.

It is amazing how nations and masses will be ready to take arms based on long long long long historical events to justify kicking people from their lands and losing properties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I wonder is if Israel is doing archeology for the sake of archeology OR it wants to use historical findings to justify kicking out people from those lands just because over 1000+ years ago someone was living there, like in the West Bank and other places.</p>
<p>It is amazing how nations and masses will be ready to take arms based on long long long long historical events to justify kicking people from their lands and losing properties.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony (Los Angeles)</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5500</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony (Los Angeles)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5500</guid>
		<description>I lost any sympathy for the equivalence of cultures the day a bunch of maniacs flew planes into buildings in order to kill my people in the name of their &quot;culture.&quot; Since then, a lot of reading has reminded me why the Greco-Roman/Judeo-Christian blend that is Western Civilization is a) superior and b) worth preserving and fighting for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lost any sympathy for the equivalence of cultures the day a bunch of maniacs flew planes into buildings in order to kill my people in the name of their &#8220;culture.&#8221; Since then, a lot of reading has reminded me why the Greco-Roman/Judeo-Christian blend that is Western Civilization is a) superior and b) worth preserving and fighting for.</p>
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		<title>By: Thrasymachus</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/11/23/herod-augustus-and-us/#comment-5499</link>
		<dc:creator>Thrasymachus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/?p=285#comment-5499</guid>
		<description>The Roman system was great for the Romans but not so great for the people they came in contact with, for whom it meant grinding slavery and oppression. The Roman legal system is great for maintaining state power, not necessarily for producing justice. Witch trials are usually associated with Catholicism, but some of the worst excesses occured in Germany- a Lutheran country- and Scotland- a Calvinist country, both with Roman law. Only in England, with common law jury trials for accused witches, were convictions relatively low, and after convictions were death sentences relatively few. 

The custom of the northern barbarians- that the community should come together to hear, debate, and vote, on disputes between individuals or matters of public policy- is a greater legacy than anything built of marble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Roman system was great for the Romans but not so great for the people they came in contact with, for whom it meant grinding slavery and oppression. The Roman legal system is great for maintaining state power, not necessarily for producing justice. Witch trials are usually associated with Catholicism, but some of the worst excesses occured in Germany- a Lutheran country- and Scotland- a Calvinist country, both with Roman law. Only in England, with common law jury trials for accused witches, were convictions relatively low, and after convictions were death sentences relatively few. </p>
<p>The custom of the northern barbarians- that the community should come together to hear, debate, and vote, on disputes between individuals or matters of public policy- is a greater legacy than anything built of marble.</p>
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