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10 Depressing, Morally Confused Reactions to 4/15/13, the Boston Jihad

The second stage of our generation's Great War has begun and many are not yet ready to accept the truth about this New Nazism that inflicts indiscriminate barbarism against children.

by
Dave Swindle

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April 19, 2013 - 4:26 pm
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2. MSNBC Host and Progressive Writer Toure:

The narrative begins to paint the Islamists who perpetrated this revolutionary new terror act as “losers.” No, I’m sorry Toure, here’s a more accurate description of what these two murderers have accomplished. Osama bin Laden was the Bill Gates of terrorism. These two are the Mark Zuckerbergs of terror and this is their Social Networking Jihad. There will be copycats. Just as there will be many more James Holmes style shooters.

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Top Rated Comments   
"Muslims who embrace America instead of demanding American submission can enjoy the riches of Liberty just as every immigrant who has come to this land throughout the centuries to worship their God and work hard."

And in other similar news, sharks that are vegetarians are welcome in the swimming pool.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Dave,

Outstanding analysis on your part. Best on the internet today. The PC crowd is circling the wagon.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
It's amazing to watch how they all fall in line with "the new narrative." It's almost like Journ-O-List is still active. It's like watching a flock of starlings all shift at nearly the same instant.

So "They're just 'knuckleheads' and 'losers.' " Let me tell you something, Leftists: It doesn't matter if I'm killed by an idiot or a genius. I'm still dead.

How does robbing a 7-11 make them knuckleheads? What a stupid statement. Lots of dangerous criminals commit minor crimes while on the run.

What does helping kids with Down's Syndrome have to do with anything? Jimmy Savile was a HUGE charity spokesman. Why do people expect that evil people are always evil and nothing else? This is why lawyers always like to bring out in trial that their defendant is a baseball fan: so the jury will think, "Hmmm... I guess he's not as bad as I thought!" What stupidity.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
All Comments   (64)
All Comments   (64)
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"Muslims who reject Koranic literalism and affirm Enlightenment philosophy are A-OK."

Um...maybe to us Infidels who affirm emlightenment...but to the REAL Muslims, they are "apostates" who, just like us Infidels, must be killed BECAUSE of our "enlightenment"
50 weeks ago
50 weeks ago Link To Comment
Andrew Sullivan, as usual, is a complete liar.

Violent Jihad is absolutely part of his "breadth and complexity and history" of Islam. In fact, it's a HUGE part. This "religion of peace" is a very new concept in Islam, and it's a description used mostly by non-muslims.

Bottom line: the teachings of Jesus Christ were peace, love and tolerance. The teachings of Muhammed were war, jihad and intolerance. Islam will NEVER completely escape its warrior code origins.

51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Islam will always remain the embodiment of its origins in brigandage.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
I have been reading these columns and comments for a couple of days and it finally struck me. Why are we, non Muslims asking questions about what Islam "needs" to do and how can we help Islam to moderate.

We have zero control and arbitrarily close to zero influence over what Muslims do. Our discussion of Islam's "needs" is a fools errand - in the extreme. If Muslims are going to change their philosophy en mass it is they who will need to ask the questions.

All indications, however, are that the only questions the Muslims are asking themselves go something like this: "Idiot infidels, how can we push them further into dhimmitude?"

We need to stop this ridiculous exercise in futility and start asking what WE can do to promote OUR values.
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
A friend of mine is a (very liberal) Lutheran Pastor. After 9/11, he told me that he was planning a course in his church to "understand Islam," "focus on all the things we have in common," and "make sure his congregation didn't harbor any ill will toward Muslims." It was all very groveling and boot-licking. Why not tell the truth and let the congregation think what they will? Why must the facts be massaged and edited with political correctness?
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
My justification for my thinking that "moderate Muslim" is an oxymoron is based on whether or not a believing, practicing Muslim can pick and chose among the militant/not so militant verses in the Koran to "believe" and or "practice"....or not.

By picking and choosing verses he/she will become neither "fish not fowl" and most probably considered apostate by their authorities or arbiters of their Koran.

A "moderate Muslim" is like a woman being a "little bit pregnant".

Hence the passive Muslim, "passive" is a better term than "moderate", is as much in danger of his/her throat being slit by a co-religionist, as I am - as an infidel.

We're in for a long, bloody, and frustrating battle. Lawyers in our Congress can't come up with the politically correct definitions covering this nebulous, amorphous Warfare we have with this book of anti-Christian, anti-enlightenment demands.

There's no compromise with the Koran. How can there be "moderate" Muslims? Would they be, then, just a little bit Muslim?
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
Dave, I am not parsing words, my point specifically was that in order to get to the point there is an enlightenment a religious reformation is a necessity. Mr. Billings history is a great point to support this. The power of the Catholic church and and it's entwined power structure, particularly with the French monarchy, had to be broken in order for the Enlightenment to commence. You say they need an enlightenment, I say they need a Reformation first.
This IS about religion and morality. Simple intellectualism is not enough.
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
The Catholic Church needed a Refomation because it had become corrupt, it had become NOT what Jesus had wanted it to be...

You cannot MAKE that comparison with Islam...Islam has NOT become "corrupted" with violence and intolerance, and thus somehow untrue to the (fraudulent, evil) Prophet.

Islam is exacty what Evil Mo had in mind...a religious/politcal excuse for every human sin imaginable...its a moral dead end and a societal failure, just like any violent "gang banger" way of life..

Islam cannot be "reformed" like the Catholic church, returned back to the "good and moral thing" it once was, because ISLAM WAS ALWAYS EVIL.

50 weeks ago
50 weeks ago Link To Comment
I completely disagree. The Protestant reformation of Christianity was needed because the Medieval Catholic church had grown away from its Biblical roots and had become idolatrous. Protestant Christianity was an attempt to restore what had been lost and return to a Christ-centered and Bible-centered instead of a Church and priest-centered Christian religion.

Islam has already had its reformation and its chief theoretician was Sayyid Qutb. A "reformed Islam" is an Islam that goes back to the roots of imitating Mohammed's bloody, genocidal warmongering. I do not advocate for this at all. The only varieties of Islam that work are those that are persecuted as heresies by the Orthodox Muslims - Examples: http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/10/20/23-books-for-counterculture-conservatives-tea-party-occultists-and-capitalist-wizards/6/
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2013/04/19/why-so-many-jazz-musicians-converted-to-a-heretical-form-of-islam/
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
Exactly. Getting back to Islam's roots is scary indeed.

Islam started approx. 610 AD. Battle of Tours was in 732 AD. So it only took Islam about 120 years to sweep across the Middle East, knock over Spain, and start shoving itself into France's backside. They didn't spread their religion that speedily by knocking on doors and politely handing out free pamphlets. Still wonder why the Crusades happened, folks?
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
@DaveSwindle. I too really like Mr. Billings deep dive into the history of imperialism and empire. I would add this related thought. One of the problems facing the Enlightenment based West is that our categories of thought just don't seem to work when trying to understand and deal with contemporary Muslim jihad. Just as the elder brother had no American friends and couldn't understand Americans and felt we had no values, our cultural DNA does not allow us to understand him. We are dealing with a people who did not experience the enlightenment and also did not experience the Reformation and participated in the renaissance, but did not persist with it. But they do participate in the late modern world. The Muslim Brotherhood is the founding organization of modern Islamism and it is very much inspired by two post enlightenment totalitarian ideologies - fascism and communism. 9/11, Bali, Madrid, London, Ft Hood, Times Square, Boston - are a globalized, post modern version of what the Enlightenment West experienced in the first half of the 20th century. But it is different too, because it is rooted deeply in a pre Enlightenment and pre Reformation past - and yes, imperialist past. I don't have the new categories of thought needed to understand and defeat this phenomena but this article has cast a wide net and I find it particularly helpful because it contains so many different voices left and right in close juxtaposition.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Thank you for your thoughtful comment lgude. I am equally concerned by evil people on both Left and Right. And have written such before: http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/06/08/7-reasons-why-the-right-should-not-seek-to-convert-the-left/5/

One of the problems with our political culture today is that when we focus so much on all the problems on "the Left" then we ignore or downplays those of us on "the Right."
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
The problem is this. The Enlightenment was not one monolithic movement. The English and Scottish Enlightenment had a great impact on those who would go on to found the Constitutional Republic of America. The French Enlightenment would profoundly impact the French Revolution and the resulting Terror, and the German Enlightenment, very influenced by the French courtesy of Frederick the Great of Prussia, would end up highly influential on what became Nazi Germany.

America's Progressives were also highly influenced by the confluence of French and German Enlightenment. Liberals are the non-religious wing of Progressivism.

Should we wish for Islam to be more influenced by Hobbes, whom the founders rejected or by Locke, whom the founders embraced. Do we wish for them to be influenced by Kant or Hegel? Though its my take that through their embrace of Nazi Germany they already were.

With the rejection of Hobbes and his belief that absolutism was necessary because of mans depraved nature, our founders not only rejected monarchy, they rejected the Puritan brand of Calvinism which had the same view of humanity as Hobbes though he was an atheist. That view led a Puritan belief in the need for absolutist religious control. Both of these views were ultimately rejected by Americans. Thus the Constitution which acknowledges the basic goodness of man, while also acknowledging our slavery to sin, noting as did Madison, that men are not angels.

The Enlightenment was enabled by the Protestant Reformation, but as of yet there has been no Luther who has arisen within Islam. As a religion that has placed cultural norms from the time of its founding as religious dictates, it would first be necessary for a religious reformer to come about well prior to an intellectual reformer. Despite all of Erasmus' treatises, it took Luther and the other religious reformers to create an environment in which intellectual enlightenment could truly take place that would do more than live in the rarified atmosphere of academia, but could take root among the common people.

I would submit that it is the rejection of the English Enlightenment in favor of the French and German that brings us Progressives, courtesy specifically of Kant and later Hegel. Liberals are much more fond of the French brand, not the German brand. Not all Enlightenment movements were the same. The exploration of this is a post all its own.

Nevertheless, it took religious reformation first to bring about the enlightenment, and until or unless that is acknowledged not only by practitioners of Islam but by the West, so eager to jettison the religious roots of intellectual freedom, nothing will change.

Though WWII is counted from 1939 to 1945, the rise of Fascism and Nazism predated that timeline by more than 16 years. A sobering thought no? Many warned previous to the war, all were ignored.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
It depends on how one chooses to define "the Enlightenment." If you define it as a period of time then a whole bunch of conflicting thinkers all get thrown in together. I'm not talking about the Enlightenment in terms of "ALL ENLIGHTENMENT THINKERS." I'm defining it in the context in which I talk about it in the article.

It's important not to get so hung up on individual words all the time and instead try and read an argument in full instead of chopping it apart to death. When I get into arguments with my progressive friends all they want to do is argue over dictionary definitions of individual words. They can't see the forest for the trees. And they're not the only ones who think in such limited ways, obsessing over words.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I'd like to make the point that the jihadists do not represent "radical" Islam, they represent mainstream Islam, as represented by the most prominent religious and political leaders in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Palestine (among other prominent Muslim states).

The Islamic "radicals" are the ones who peacefully coexist with people of other religions.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I already made that point in the article, though I used the word "traditional" instead of "mainstream":

It is a war that Islam has declared against Enlightenment-based societies. The problem is not the Koran or Islam. The problem is radical (as in going to the root of the idea) Islam or Islamism, or Orthodox Islam, or the traditional Islam of history that requires the marriage of mosque and state accompanied by full implementation of chop-your-hands-off-style Sharia.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I find it interesting that so many here fall into the logical fallacy of exclusion of the middle. Both the Caliphatists, and those who would burn a billion people to vapor in order to stop Islam, are using the same definition of religion. That is they both assume that "real" religion resides always and only with scriptural literalists. This has been the case at different times with both Christianity and Islam, and both have suffered for that.

It is noteworthy that both Christianity and Islam spent centuries dominated by an Imperial State. The Roman Empire of Constantinople, in the case of Christianity, and the Caliphate in the case of Islam. Both saw the attempts to "unify" their creeds by these imperiums, and the scriptural literalism used to do that, alongside imperial executioners, served the Imperial State in both cases far better than it ever served the religious attention on the divine of the populace.

There are Muslims who are not scriptural literalists. Yes, the Caliphatists reject their stance, and have more and more often used violence against them. There are Christians who reject scriptural literalism, including, I am told, a majority of Evangelist Christians. Fortunately, our own attempts to revive the Roman Empire continue to fail, from Napoleon, to Hitler, to the EU. So, the difference is that Islam is still plagued by its imperialists.

I would suggest that the most useful thing the US can do is to help in bringing safety to those Moslems who are not scriptural literalists. Without their adherence, the Caliphatists will have no hope to renew the Moslem copy of the Roman Empire of Constantinople, and Sharia will be a dead letter for anyone not a Caliphatist themselves.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Must disagree with your, "There are Muslims who are not scriptural literalists."

Somewhere close by I try to liken a "moderate Muslim" to being "a little bit pregnant" and picking choosing verses to observe, from out of an unforgiving Koran.

Christians, however, can be non-scriptural, or non-literal because we lack that stifling rigidity of the Koran. My impression as a Christian is that their Koran has zero tolerance for deviation.

Now, if a practicing observant Muslim will say that the Koran is flexible, then let him say it out loud; and let these so called 'Moderate Muslims" join us in battle against their co-religionists. That simply is not going to happen. Hence our dilemma today.

Christians grew out of arguing about the number of angels dancing on a pinhead. Muslims have not........have they? Hence their throat-slitting today continuing unabated centuries after their founding.
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
Very well said, Tom. Thank you. I agree.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
"Muslims who embrace America instead of demanding American submission can enjoy the riches of Liberty just as every immigrant who has come to this land throughout the centuries to worship their God and work hard."

"He [that would be Muhammad, the founder of Islam and all Muslims "Perfect Man"] declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion [that would be Islam, not "Islamism", nor "Radical Islam", nor 'Islamists" nor "Islamofascism", nor "Hijacked Islam", but ISLAM!], against all the rest of mankind." (John Quincy Adams)

Has CAIR bought PJM? Seriously?
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
There definitely are muslims who have moderated and Americanized, but they either are not organized or do not organize to speak out against what is happening to their religion, and make no mistake, what is happening is happening to Islam across the globe, and it's being spread from the Middle East.

Try reading some Ayan Hirsi Ali or Noni Darwish. Both of them recognize that there are degrees of Islam, and they also recognize that the Islam that could exist side by side with most other faiths is being co-opted by by the radical brand being exported by Middle Eastern petro dollars. Darwish remarks on the marked difference between American muslim communities in the '50s and '60s and those same communities now. The Imams have changed and so have what they preach.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
aharris if you reject Mohammed and the Koran is it still Islam?

Historically Islam is all about "getting along" when in the position of weakness, but when in positions of power and wealth Islam becomes agressive. Look up Taqiyya.
50 weeks ago
50 weeks ago Link To Comment

"There definitely are muslims who have moderated and Americanized"

Ok, I'll take you at your word, but answer this. Since Islam calls for the end of religious freedom and everything else America stands for, why are they still muslims?

"Try reading some Ayan Hirsi Ali or Noni Darwish. Both of them recognize that there are degrees of Islam,"

Regardless of how many degrees of Islam there are there is only one Mohamed and one Koran and they both show contempt for the values in our Constitution.

Sorry, but the argument for moderate Islam just wont fly.

Take Turkey, for example, the poster child for "Moderate or secular Islam" under Ataturk. It is now rapidly backsliding into traditional intolerant Islam.

The only good Islam is no Islam.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
No, Dave Swindle has always been a spiritualist and has always given every faith the benefit of the doubt.

Make no mistake, Dave recognizes and points to the danger represented by Islamic Supremacy and Sharia law. Stop trying to snipe at our own.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Many thanks.

Chill out, FeralCat. I'm the guy that edits Robert Spencer's articles for PJM every week and tries to try and figure out new ways to bring his analysis of Islam to people who have not yet heard it.

Decent people should be able to tell the difference between the CAIR stealth Jihadists who are pretending to be "moderate Muslims" and the genuine Enlightenment Muslims who reject Sharia and condemn CAIR. The word "Muslim" doesn't have to mean the same thing that it has meant throughout the centuries, just as "Pagan" and "Jew" and "Christian" have evolved too.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
"The word "Muslim" doesn't have to mean the same thing that it has meant throughout the centuries", but it does and there is no indication that it is going to change.

Islam was started by a a murderous pedophile and to this day it turns the brains of it's followers to mush. There really isn't much to analyze about Islam. Our efforts should be directed to rolling back the influence of Islam and making its practice more difficult in our countries We should work toward requiring Islam to allow iits followers to leave the religion without fear.

Islam needs to be defeated not only for non Muslims but for the sake of Muslims as well.
Should we not desire to free our fellow man from this soul crushing blight on their lives?
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
When you define the problem as Islam then you don't focus on the real problem: Sharia. A Muslim can still call himself a Muslim while rejecting whole swaths of what the Koran says. Just as a Christian can pick and choose what they want form their holy book and still call themselves a Christian, so can a Muslim.

Osama bin Laden and Sayyid Qutb and Yusuf Qaradawi do not have any more authority about saying who qualifies as a Muslim than you or me. There is no correct, true form of Islam of any other religion.
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
But there is no Enlightenment Islam to join, and the followers of paleo-Islam have and give license to kill those who pretend. More to the point, they kill those who would leave. So I always assume that moderate, liberal, westernized Muslims are simply scared to say or do more. You can count the prominent exceptions to this on one hand, or no hands.

In fact, it is somewhat hard to say what remains of Islam, if you remove the actual history and violent prescriptions. I suppose someone could write one, if he wouldn't be murdered halfway through.

You could discuss it with Robert Spencer.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
There are plenty of heretical forms of Islam that people can join. They're persecuted by the Islamists too. Throughout history there have been many Muslim countercultural movements to try and break from from Sharia.

I don't need to discuss it with Robert Spencer because I linked to the article of his that he submitted to me on the subject and that I published on Friday.
52 weeks ago
52 weeks ago Link To Comment
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