4. THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS
Some day all the old hippies will be dead…. Some day…
I chant that to myself sometimes.
It doesn’t help.
You gotta give ‘em credit:
Baby Boomer-run Hollywood takes the tiniest tragedies, most mediocre accomplishments, and most tedious historical events and constructs multi-generational, award-winning, and highly lucrative mythologies around them.
Can our supposedly fragile Planet Earth sustain yet another “brave” new movie about “McCarthyism” or the “assassination” of some semi-famous individual who wasn’t actually “assassinated,” or some other “disgraceful” “crime” from a previous century? We’re going to find out.
George Clooney is producing a movie about the “controversial” Smothers Brothers, whose “controversial” comedy-variety show in the late-sixties was totally “controversial” and got cancelled by their evil corporate television bosses, probably on the say-so of PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON HIMSELF!!!
Here’s the author of the Smothers Brothers hagiography that got optioned by Clooney:
First, I’m thrilled on behalf of Tom and Dick, whose story deserves to be told and retold, and whose efforts to inject topicality into scripted TV comedy in the 1960s led very directly to the sort of thing Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and Bill Maher are doing today.
Yay.
Gee, I wonder if the movie will talk about this, too?
For decades, I believed, as I think almost everyone who followed the issue did, that the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour was yanked by CBS because of CBS’s objection to the Smothers Brothers’ edgy commentary about social issues. Various “public” television stations, in their December fund-raising, are showing a documentary special that pushes that view. WGBH in Boston, for example, will show it on December 11. The documentary is entitled Smothered: The Censorship Struggles of the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.
It is true that CBS had a lot of difficulty with the Smothers Brothers’ edgy looks at politics and religion. But that’s only part of what got the show yanked. The other part was a humorous bit done by guest Dan Rowan. Rowan gave the “fickle-finger-of-fate” award (i.e., the finger) to John O. Pastore, a U.S. Senator from Rhode Island. Why did Rowan single out Pastore? Pastore was the chairman of United States Senate Subcommittee on Communications. In that role, he had a great deal of power over the Federal Communications Commission, the federal agency that censors radio and television. In other words, Rowan “fingered” a man who had a great deal of power over television content.
That man was not even mentioned in the documentary. Why not? Here’s my “public choice” speculation. Pastore is also known for pushing hard for subsidies to public broadcasting. Indeed he did so only about a month after CBS yanked the Smothers Brothers show. He became a hero to those who believe in tax-financed subsidies to public television. So the stations have probably never wanted to look at the truth because it would mean admitting that their hero was a nasty censor who, like most politicians, couldn’t stand being made fun of. Ironically, while the various public broadcasting stations try to come across as open-minded people who want the truth to come out, by trumpeting this movie and not mentioning one important thing left out, they are not trying to broadcast the whole truth at all.
Speaking truth to power! (But only as long as that power isn’t liberal, taxpayer-supported public television.)
Tommy Smothers is such an obnoxious, small-minded, ill-informed ideological bully that even Penn Jillette was struck (temporarily) speechless. [Language warning.]
Penn Jillette is a smart guy who believes a lot of stupid things. At least he was candid enough to struggle publicly with the awful realization that his lifelong anti-censorship comedy idol could be just as mean to him as he’d been to his on-air targets decades earlier.
The Smothers Brothers did one clever thing: before they gave in and started wearing Nehru jackets, they disguised themselves as “squares,” all the better to trick middle Americans into inviting them into their living rooms. I quite prefer that sort of mercenary phoniness to the other kind: when comedians try to look “relevant” by sporting weird beards, red bandanas, and long grey ponytails…
I agree. Especially toward the end, Carlin was just a mean, old, hippie who was just so pi$$ed that the world hadn’t turned out to be Camelot with a lot of weed on the side.
The Smothers Bros were mildly amusing sometimes, but better singers than comics. Letting the baritone sing the melody and the tenor the harmony was a good idea.
Lenny Bruce was the dirty, dangerous fellow on heroin that you’d warn your kids to steer clear of on the streets.
Cheech & Chong were funny the first couple of times you heard them, then you realized it was the same act over and over and over again. Sort of like Howard Stern (another overrated comedian).
I never have thought Louis CK was funny. I’d rather watch Blue Collar Comedy Tour than Louis CK. Heck, I’d rather watch old Captain Kangaroo reruns than Louis CK.
Both Sinbad and Bill Cosby have put me on the floor in paroxysms of laughter without saying one Saxon word, so merely repeating profanities has long grown old. About the time of Eddie Murphy comedy primarily based on profanity jumped the shark and became passe.
He said what a lot of people were/are thinking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI&feature=related
So, are you in “the big club?”
Old people usually have more experience and more knowledge. Young ones don’t. So I don’t put much stock in old people who profess what young people think. They’re worse than the young people…
Fascinating to hear a guy attempting to expose a conspiracy theory on what “the owners of this country” want, on a TV network owned by Time-Warner-CNN.
“He said what a lot of people were thinking.” What does that even mean and why is it important? Are people’s thoughts more legitimate because an old hippie says them up on a stage?
Does that mean that they own him too?
Liberals have controlled education since the late 60′s…people like Carlin. So who do you suppose it is who doesn’t want us to know things? The people who no longer teach Civics? The people who no longer teach how to handle money? Economics? The history of our country? Who uses phoney science now to pimp AGW?
The Carlins do…
Carlin was funny, brilliant, and creative. But that all went away when he became political. He was a man filled with hate for anything Conservative, and especially for the Catholic Church. I don’t know much about his background, but it must have contained a great deal of pain for him to have that much hate.
The last “real” comedian i saw was, Jonathon Winters.
He was a good weatherman … and that’s it.
“Tonight’s forecast: dark!”
With scattered light around dawn.
I know the name Dane Cook is thrown around to basically mean “bad comedian” but Eddie Izzard is unfunny on a level Dane Cook can’t even approach. Also, I’ve always found Ricky Gervais to be a hostile, smarmy one-note little British creep of the kind that Americans specifically tend to over-rate (cultural insecurity?).
However, when it comes to actual funniness vs. level of praise, the most over-celebrated and lionized comedian of all time has to be Bill Hicks.
Yes! I love comedy and have never so much as smiled at a Hicks bit.
I see, just because YOU don’t like something or someone it must SUCK… Very balanced approach. Not all things past translate to the present as time erases the subtleties that were present and making the humor relevant.
There weren’t any subtleties or relevance; you were just too stoned to realize it.
Some people are simply incapable of comprehending artistry. The answer is to develop tools for self-criticism. Being against is not revealing, being for something tells something. For example Muslims are always complaining about what they are against but there are few clues as to what they are for and they’re not telling. It’s easy to criticize and difficult to create. What have you created that gives you a view above these people to look down and make pronouncements? Everyone has an opinion but they are not all valid.
You state that Muslims never quite tell you what they are for. You must not be listening . They are for Sharia law, world unification under a Califate and forcibly converting every person in this planet to Islam.
The three major Abrahamic religions could be defined as follows:
Judaism: Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.
Christianity: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Islam: Do unto others.
islam is revisionist history and replacement theology..
mohammad is a plagiarist..
you believe islam is Abrahamic at your own peril… you could say “Do unto others” is a Communist golden rule as well.. same hate for history and Judeo-Christianity..
had to be said..
‘vangrungy’ Mohammad not only plagiarised The Talmud and the Old Testament but he also got it hilariously wrong too. One example is choosing the WRONG son of Abraham as the subject of sacrifice. Mybe because Mohammad was illiterate and he only got his knowledge of Christianity and Judaism form ‘Chinese Whispers’. Of course once the MISTAKES his sock puppet made were ridiculed the narcissists solution was to claim that the Talmud and the Bible had been corrupted and the Koran was protected by allah. Why allah could not and did not protect ‘HIS’ other holy books the Talmud and Bible Muslims are not really able to tell you or rather not able to give a logical explanation.
Christianity is revisionist history and replacement theology. So is Judaism. Both are cobbled rehashes of earlier paganisms by idiots too stupid to recognize pagan astronomical mythology as mythology, or con artists too smart to pass up a proved money-maker. There was no Abraham (a hideous remake of the Hindu Brahma), a monster willing to burn his own son to death to please a deranged sun god. Virtually every story in the Old and New Testaments is based on astronomy and astrology, as some of the early Jewish and Christian writers admitted. Islam is just another rehash, with a few additional pagan embellishments, albeit grossly corrupted from the originals.
Many of the early Christian fathers openly admitted to lying and fabricating, and to falsifying documents to further the cause: a practice they considered perfectly fine for the glory of God. The Koran encourages the same behavior. You can’t denounce Islam without denouncing its progenitors. And, yes, all three are Abrahamic religions, based on the same plagiarized pagan mythology.
We should turn from Scripture because anonymous you tells us it’s derivative?
Originality’s kind of over-rated by your ilk. It’s not just every snowflake that’s unique, so is every turd. So next time you’re in the bathroom…look in the mirror.
“Virtually every story in the Old and New Testaments is based on astronomy and astrology, as some of the early Jewish and Christian writers admitted.”
Huh? I was raised by atheists and never heard that one. Prove it.
Yes, Retlaw, you should turn from scripture because it’s the very same crap you refer to. Not just derivative, but plagiarized, sometimes word for word. The parable of the mustard seed, for instance, is Buddhist, but some early Christian managed to insert it into a gospel and attribute it to Jesus. Everything in the gospels is nonsense, and for you, an adult, to gaze lovingly upon its words and take them seriously is absolutely astounding. And pitiful.
It is you who needs to find out the origin of your make-believe sacred scriptures and the stories they provide. Just do a Google search on “pagan origins of Christianity,” or “pagan origins of bible stories,” or “astrotheology,” or “Jesus and solar myths.” The combinations are endless, but the facts come out the same. The bible is a hoax, its stories are infantile misinterpretations of pagan myths, and there is absolutely nothing in the history of Christianity to make it even an iota better than Islam.
Hey, I’ve got a new favorite comic – Florida! He’s a riot!
There’s nothing more tedious than an evangelist for atheism – look how he froths at the mouth.
Go and spit on your grandparents’ graves, then, Florida. Why, those idiots couldn’t hold a candle to your magnificent brainpower!
She’s for Mary Tyler Moore and Johnny Rotten, didn’t you read the piece?
“Artistry”? Whose, the Smothers Brothers? That show attracted some nice musical acts, but I can’t remember their ever being funny. Tommy was trying to be Lou Costello, but he couldn’t pull it off.
I’ve always been a big fan Ms. Shaidle, but when you say The Who was better than The Beatles, you have disqualified yourself from polite society and all consideration as a human being.
You have a life-size cardboard cutout of them in your bedroom, don’t you?
No. But I’d like to.
C’mon, the Beatles. Everything they made sounds so dated now. Play “Yellow Submarine” anywhere and eyes will roll.
Think of the Andrews Sisters. “Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy” is still a great listen, while “Don’t Sit Under the Apple Tree” is yesteryear schlock.
“Sympathy for the Devil”, still great. “The Wall”, yesteryear. “I Wanna Hold Your Hand” might as well be “Hey, Hey, We’re the Monkees!”, like the author says.
The only thing the Beatles had going for them was the Harmony between the voices of John Lennon and Paul McCarteny. George Harrison was only there to play Bass, and Ringo was a fill in for Pete Best who they fired just because the Manager said to.
The Who, the Moody Blues, and Zeplin made it on Talent and Innovation over time rather than Marketing.
Sort of like how Carlin was always a big deal because you played the LP’s at your friends house when their parents weren’t home. And then because you were part of the conspiracy you never admited that you found the whole thing to be somewhat strained ideas interspersed with the F word.
The real word for Carlin was the M word. Just like for the Beatles. Marketing.
The Beatles aren’t playing NOW. In their day they were the best and no band since them has ever put out so many albums at the same high level. Their songs are dated only in the sense that they are conspicuous products of their era but who isn’t. Who’s gonna look stupider in the future: guys with Italian shoes and mop-tops and suits or men with pants around their hips with the crotch half way to the ground with red leather “Members Only” style jackets and giant chains around their neck? And the hip hop women are even worse.
“C’mon, the Beatles. Everything they made sounds so dated now.”
I note you cite songs from their earlier history. I can think of a few, particularly from the White album, that are still a pleasure to hear: While my Guitar Gently Weeps, Julia, Glass Onion, Cry Baby Cry just to name a few. More good stuff to be heard from Abbey Road & Magical Mystery Tour.
while you are all entitled to your varied opinions, the fact remains that the Beatles collection of number one hits was a huge best seller among high school and college kids just a few years ago. My own child, when asked to replace the cd (Rubber Soul)in the car, replied “No. Let’s listen to it again. Whenever I hear the Beatles, I realize everything else is crap.”
She was born a mere thirty five years after that record was made.
I also think the Ricky Gervais, while a mean, nasty individual, happens to be a comic genius; The Office and Extras are masterpieces.
I want to reply to jd, but for some odd reason, there’s no “reply” button below his/her comment, so I’m stuck replying to retlaw. So, sorry, retlaw. Anyway, jd said “George Harrison was only there to play Bass”. Excuse me? Paul McCartney played bass; George Harrison played lead guitar. John Lennon played rhythm guitar. If you’re going to pontificate on the Beatles and their abilities, at least get the facts straight.
Actually, I reserve my intense study of bands for those bands that have quality music. The Beatles aren’t important enough for me to really investigate who did what.
Their music was parochial and formulaic, and while some titles are worth listening to, the body of their music is vanilla.
It took Yoko very little time to disband them once she entered the mix.
I know they’re not playing NOW, John Lwu. Neither are the Andrews Sisters, Bill Haley, or Chuck Berry – and yet “BOOGIE WOOGIE BUGLE BOY”, “SHAKE, RATTLE & ROLL”, and “JOHNNY B. GOODE” are still compelling and vibrant. “RUM AND COCA-COLA”, “ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK”, and “ROLL OVER BEETHOVEN” sound like period pieces, though – something to keep the musicologists busy. It’s a hit or miss thing, and my point is that none of the Beatles work stood the test of time.
And that certainly includes “WHILE MY GUITAR GENTLY WEEPS” (show me a gentle weeper and I’ll show you the door) and “MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR”, bobbcat.
MLP, thanks for allowing us our opinions. Go ahead and enjoy your record collection, I’m just sounding off. And it’s nice for you that your daughter likes the music you like. But “a huge best seller among high school and college kids just a few years ago” doesn’t impress – I know from personal experience that high school and college kids are mostly dopes.
theotherone, of course you’re right about George. One of those lawyers at Powerline blog was opining last year that Harrison was just about the finest lead guitar EVAH! Reminded me of how I felt about Emerson, Lake, and Palmer when I was 14 “Geez, it was a brilliant idea to put the world’s greatest keyboardist together with the world’s greatest guitarist and the world’s finest percussionist!” Now I can’t even listen to “TARKUS”, can you?
jd, the problem isn’t “vanilla”. Vanilla ice cream’s good to eat, and it always will be. Lots of their early stuff is saccharin, like “SHE LOVES YOU”, and lots of their later stuff is quirky and, well, dated, like “ELEANOR RIGBY”. You and I mostly agree, but I resent being reminded of Yoko.
You ignore some songs that are good, listenable, and annoyingly relevant for today:
Taxman and Revolution are the first two that come to mind.
Both are pretty spectacular bands, likely at their best in different venues(concert vs. studio).
George Carlin and Ringo Starr made even more money by narrating Thomas the Train videos. I couldn’t believe it when I found out those old potheads were the voices on videos my innocent young grandsons were watching. At least they don’t know who these two were. Is Ringo still alive?
Ringo alive? Who knows. You could Google it.
Yes, he is still alive.
I think Ringo did a wonderful job on “Thomas the Train.” No other narrator even comes close, IMO.
Your list isn’t complete without Robin Williams. Goofy noises, liberal use of profanity, and mean-spirited comments about anybody in the news who doesn’t share his perversions.
And his “high energy” jumping up and running around while an interviewer tries to interview him just looks pathetic. It looks desperate.
“His perversions?”
You know just because he’s played a gay character doesn’t make him gay.
You know there was a poll the other day showing that 51% of Americans approve of gay marriage now. Unless 51% of Americans are gay you better get used to the fact that you don’t have to have a “perversion” to defend people who do.
Josh Scholar
“You know there was a poll the other day showing that 51% of Americans approve of gay marriage now.”
ridiculous nonsense.
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/05/20/gallup_gay_marriage_poll_majority_of_americans_now_support_legal.html
53% not 51%
There is no such thing as gay marriage.
You should qualify that by completing that thought with “on my planet.” As for the one we live on, totally different story. One day marriage rights for the gay community will be honored throughout the US. It’s only a matter of time.
True, though on Earth some of the perverts try to simulate the existence of the contradiction in terms that’s a same-sex marriage.
The Left has a long history of attempting to use the State as their instrument of coercing people to pretend such obvious lies as “socialism works.” Now they’re trying to do the same with same-sex marriage.
Helpful, informative website on this pertinent issue: http://www.arguingequality.org/
Equal justice in civil law and criminal law. Tax law? What’s equality of rights good for anyhow?
Ridiculous! I don’t care what people told a polster – Every time it’s placed on the ballot it losses – even in California (3 times). That’s why where it is legal it had to be legislated into existance.
My list would include Garrison Keillor, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Maher. It seems many comedians are unhappy people who start out seeming funny and end up being seriously unfunny. Maybe comedians should have term limits.
Now THAT’S funny…
Fascinating. Well I am quite completely in the Dennis-Miller-Used-To-Be-Funny camp.
*Gasp* How could you say that! Dennis Miller appears on Bill O’Reilly, ergo (by the logic of this article), he has to be funny because he’s not a flaming liberal. [/sarc]
While I agree that the Smothers Bros. and Lenny Bruce never were funny, I have to ‘fess up as being a conservative that laughed at George Carlin when I was younger. His later stuff wasn’t very good, though. Perhaps it was all those years I spent in Catholic school?
I’m joining the “Bugsy needs to be banned” camp.
I agree with Dennis Miller. I agree with most of what he says but its no longer funny.
I think you hit a point when you follow politics that the jokes, any jokes, don’t really work very well.
Actually, Lenny Bruce was one of the few comedians on the cultural left that was willing to skewer the sacred cows of the left. He did bits about the civil rights movement and his “Nigger, Nigger, Nigger” routine still resonates in today’s oh so PC environment. He wasn’t a saint, he had feet of clay and he was a junkie, but before he started having legal difficulties he was very funny. To judge Bruce’s humor by the stuff he did in ’64, ’65 and ’66, when he reduced himself to unfunnily reading court transcripts on stage is to not do the man’s entire career justice. His early material can be fall off your chair funny.
Look, the guy was arrested as much for tweaking the noses of those in power as it was for obscenity. He got arrested in Mayor Daley’s Chicago because he was making jokes about Jackie Kennedy’s actions during the assassination. However, had he not been funny, nobody would have cared.
Those in power hate being mocked, and when the mockery is delivered with a punchline, it’s almost impossible to refute.
Can one make a serious critique of Bruce’s liberal pieties and shortcomings as a human being. No doubt he was elevated to sainthood by the cultural left.
I’ll agree about Carlin being overrated. Frankly he was a second rate Bruce imitator in many regards. Cheech and Chong were the Three Stooges (though not nearly as funny) to the Firesign Theater’s Marx Brothers. I’m not sure what exactly is supposed to be funny about Louis CK, beyond a handful of stock facial expressions. The best part about the Smothers Brothers Show were the other people on the show like Pat Paulson and superb musical guests including, if I’m not mistaken, Kathy’s favorites the Who.
What’s the difference between “bravely mocking those in power” and “doing shit that happens to be illegal at the time?” There were laws against obscenity. Bruce broke them. He got arrested. How does that prove that the “powers that be” had some kind of personal grudge against him because he said things about them?
This is the essence of the paranoid conspiracy theory at the heart of leftist beliefs: the world is “controlled” by groups of powerful people who identify themselves as groups of powerful people and who do everything they can to hang onto their power and accumulate more – always at the expense of “the 99%.” As it applies to freedom of speech, this theory maintains that the rich and powerful carefully monitor all the chatter going on in the world and reach down from Olympus to silence any speech that seems to threaten their status. You’ll find people in the OWS who firmly believe that the cities disbanded them because powerful people were afraid of their message (whatever that was). The powerful – in fact, the enemies of the left in general – are always secretly afraid of those who bravel “speak truth to power.”
It’s all self-aggrandizing rubbish, of course, just like Lenny Bruce’s gallant stand against fascist speech suppression. He was definitely ground-breaking. He was definitely not a threat to anyone.
Years before Bruce went to jail on obscenity charges, Stan Freberg took a swipe at speech infringement – without resorting to crude language – on nation-wide radio. The piece in question, “Elderly Man River”, is not only still VERY funny, it is probably MORE pertinent today, more than 50 years later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlTlYfqQV4
I spent years listening to poeple ranting on about how good Lenny Bruce was, and so when I finally did take in some of his material, I was very disappopinted.
Truth-to-power, stand-up comicss no lolnger exist. The ones around today simply use boring strings of obscenities as the central piller of their whole act.
They’re not comics because real comics are seriously clever.
George Carlin and his countless imitations are just vulgar, and nothing mopre.
I agree with every word (and every piece of punctuation) in this article.
Personally, I liked Donovan better than the Beatles. And for that matter, Yes is better than Pink Floyd, Bobby Darin was better than Sinatra, Robyn Hitchcock is better than Dylan, and Thomas Hardy was better than Charles Dickens.
It DOES feel good to confess this stuff!
I took no serious umbrage at Florida’s puerile rantings above. I take little umbrage at your disparagement of The Beatles.
However. I must draw the line when you assert ANYONE was better than Sinatra. Ever. Or ever will be.
Frank Sinatra – the Chuck Norris of music.
I respectfully submit that you are too young to even have an opinion of value. It is easy to take something out of its’ period and denigrate it. While I was not neccessarily a fan of any of the persons mentioned, I think that you are just looking for something to make fun of. That’s your right of course, but it makes you look mean and silly. And YMMV.
Agreed, with the exception of Cheech and Chong (of course, I think Beavis and Butthead are hilarious too). What makes those 4 funny is that I have known real people JUST like them!
Comedy is also very time-sensitive. What made people laugh in a certain day or age fails to elicit even a smile in later years.
And I agree with the commenter about Robin Williams. Never saw a hairier, more unfunny person in my whole life.
Carlin was funny – provided he was just commenting on the casual occurrences of life.
The moment he tried talking about anything serious he immediately morphed into a whiny, bitter, mean-spirited, obnoxious ideologue.
He realized this, and acknowledged it in a few of his last acts. Ultimately it made him a complete waste of talent.
I’m not sure Lenny Bruce was really a comedian. He is closer to what Dennis Miller is – someone who uses humor in addressing social issues.
In a way, that is what Carlin wanted to be but never could. Oh well.
Cheech and Chong and the Smother Brothers are humorous in dribs and drabs. They are not consistently funny, and a great deal of the humor with them is derived from the personas they use rather than anything specific they do. That is, it is watching them portray particular stereotypes in unusual situations rather than actually watching them try to be funny that inspires humor. That is probably why Cheech only finally found particular success as an actor in non-comedic roles, with the exception of From Dusk Till Dawn, as opposed to any of them having more than niche success as comedians.
As it goes, I’ve never seen Louis CK myself either and only know him from his moronic tweets. Generally speaking I have found any “comedians” who find they need to wallow in such kind of vicious personal attacks to be “funny” to really be completely boring.
“Carlin was funny – provided he was just commenting on the casual occurrences of life.”
Exactly! Things like his routine about “stuff” or my particular favorite, the contrast between football and baseball, were indeed funny. Even the hippie-dippy weatherman was funny, at least until he started trying to insert “serious” comments.
I agree with your take on those in the list – which could be much longer.
My take on Bruce comes from a private collection of tapes made from 1958 to 1960. They were recorded at performances and in home/rehearsal bs sessions. He had the ability to skewer sacred cows with a Bill Cosby-like smoothness and laugh your butt off, roll in the aisle humor. Until he got high- which he frequently was during performances. Around 1960, maybe earlier, he reached a peak and began the slide into the depths of a mind wasted on drugs.
Cosby, Carlin, and Bruce were all at their best when observing everyday life (without a political slant) and delivering lines in the way the early Mort Saul could do. Another comedian who misplaced his talent somewhere.
As for blue humor, let us not forget the master, Redd Foxx. He predated Bruce in all things related to crude language and being arrested for his act. He was often very funny but was relegated to playing to negro audiences most of his career. His humor was about and directed to that culture as it existed in his time. He was a social pariah until Sanford & Son. That made him semi-respectable in polite company. [BTW: Sanford was Foxx's real last name.]
Well, if we get into blue humor that’s a whole other thing.
If we start with Redd Foxx, that begins a whole rant about the decline of that cadre of Black comedians.
Redd Foxx was awesome.
Richard Pryor was great.
Eddie Murphy can be superior.
And . . .
A slew of people who either whine about being oppressed or trap themselves in pathetic post-modern minstrel roles.
Oh sure, every now and then you get a Richard Townsend or Damon Wayons who manages to transcend that, but the overwhelming number of Black comedians I see seem to think that cursing in and of itself is funny rather than just being a tool.
From there I jump back to the Vaudeville/Borscht Belt comedians.
I still tell Buddy Hackett jokes, and Rodney Dangerfield is always worth watching.
Of course most of that genre is now banned for not being PC, and we wind up with people thinking that “The Aristocrats” is the default for humorous language rather than an exception, and we get people like Louis CK and Bill Maher.
Er, at least in one of his books, Carlin says: “I don’t care about the names — I will call someone an obese homosexual African-American if he so desires, or I will call him a fat n*****r c**ksucker! I’m here to please!”. So it’s not strictly speaking true he didn’t fight against banning the n-word. And certainly he said “c**ksucker” a lot, which might not go down well with the gay community.
Ronnie,
Bruce’s “Nigger” routine was an eat-your-spinach, ameliorative routine: “If we strip this word of its power to hurt, we’ll be helping poor little black children feel better about themselves.”
Blech. Spoken like a true white liberal. How condescending.
Someone with real guts says the word and “means it” — see Nick DiPaolo.
And the tired notion that “Those in power hate being mocked, and when the mockery is delivered with a punchline, it’s almost impossible to refute”
History proves time and again that satire is 100% useless in achieving anything substantial. How exactly did The Great Dictator decrease Hitler’s power one iota? Monty Python only went after authority figures whose powers were already waning, as Peter Hitchens proposes in The Abolition of Britain.
How has mocking “political correctness” for the last 25 years reduced it in any way; if anything, it has become MORE entrenched.
Lenny Bruce told himself and his fans that he was performing the noble duty of mocking authority and suffering martyrdom in the process. But what did he and Carlin REALLY accomplish? The Man is more powerful than ever, but now no-talent “comics” can swear about it
Satire is like cellulite cream: if it really worked, there’d be no need for its continued existence and re-invention.
Actually, The Who did appear on the Smothers Brothers show — I think it is obvious from their demeanor that they were none too impressed with their “hipster” hosts. Townshend didn’t brain Abbie Hoffman over the head with his guitar at Woodstock for nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YI_G8l1BPM
First, XOXOXO to Kathy for preferring The Monkees to The Beatles!
(To be honest, I slightly prefer The Beatles myself — but they were admittedly overrated, while The Monkees were unfairly disparaged by Beatles-snobs. Mind you, when I got my first CD player from Santa lo these many years ago, one of the very first CDs I bought was a compilation of The Mamas & The Papas — but to this day I don’t have either The Beatles or The Monkees on CD.)
That said, I would emphatically disagree with Kathy’s assertion that “History proves time and again that satire is 100% useless in achieving anything substantial.” Just because satire fails to be 100% effective at changing opinions of 100% of the people doesn’t make it “100% useless”.
For example, as a homosexual American 40-year-old who used to be a homosexual teenager, I believe that South Park‘s use of satire has made a substantial improvement in how Americans discuss homosexuality: the contrast between the endearing Big Gay Al and the twisted Mr. Garrison for the first six seasons or so was a pointed rebuttal to the question “Why can’t homosexuals just stay in the closet?” And, in later seasons, South Park reminded people that although “f*ggot” is a rude word to call someone, getting called “f*ggot” isn’t something to make a federal case about, because you can be like Butters and just not care!
Of course, there are still some dainty religious folks who are hyper-offended by out-of-the-closet homosexuals; and there are still some dainty homosexuals who are hyper-sensitive to other people’s homophobia — so, indeed, the satire hasn’t been 100% effective, but I think it has made a substantial difference.
The Monkees didn’t write a single one of their hit songs. They were a band assembled for TV. When TV ended so did the band. How this puts them on the level of the Beatles I don’t know. I loved The Monkees TV show. I know the difference between a fabricated band that doesn’t write like Spice Girls and Amy Winehouse who wrote and played guitar. Each can be enjoyable because after all, one is listening to end product. But artistic credit is not the same for each.
3 dog night were similar to the monkees, but they made great music
I’m not sure that Three Dog Night was a manufactured band like the Monkees (and Mike Nesmith and Peter Tork were working, talented musicians before the show). As a vocal group they did lots of covers, it’s true.
As for the music of the Monkees, as I noted in my piece on producer Bert Schneider’s passing and his role in the making of the Monkeemobile
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2011/12/15/r-i-p-bert-schneider-the-godfather-of-the-monkeemobile/ , the entire Monkees enterprise was marked by great talent. Schneider and Bob Rafelson hired the best session players and great songwriters to back up the Monkees’ vocals. The show’s success and the music’s continued popularity are not surprising.
I remember a story the great Fender bassist Carol Kaye told about The Wrecking Crew recording the tracks for the Monkees’ songs while the boys were elsewhere in the same building holding a press conference claiming they played on their records. Carol said liked the boys and thought it was funny. I’ve always thought of Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, Leon Russell, Tommy Tedesco and the rest of that great group of west coast studio players as some of the finest musicians no one knew individually back then but everyone heard on records during their era.
For fans of early sixties pop, check out the trailer for “The Wrecking Crew”:
http://www.wreckingcrewfilm.com/trailer.html
Monkees trivia: among the musicians and actors who auditioned to be a Monkee was Stephen Stills.
How does “hey hey we’re the Monkees” or “last train to Clarksville” even get considered in the same realm as Eleanor Rigby, A Day in the Life, Fool on the Hill, Norwegian Wood, Michelle My Belle etc etc. Think what you are saying. A hundred years from now, orchestras and Jazz groups along with rock bands will still be playing Beatles music. No one will remember the train to Clarksville.
If you know anything about music and musical composition you would know that the Monkees, although entertaining, barely quality as a musical enterprise.
I must say though that one of the Monkee’s, I think it was Peter York, went on to make a great si-fi movie called “Time Rider”. It was very well done.
Thanks for the vid. It was like watching Eddie Cantor sing “Toot Toot Tootsie.”
Seriously…lethally dated.
George Carlin WAS funny, but started downhill in ’86. I still crack up at his thoughts on losing things, stuff, cats and dogs, and sports.
And, he did rail against political correctness, including the n word in “Offensive Language” on the album “Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics”.
But yes, pretty much everything after ’90 sucked.
Louis C.K. can be hilarious, but he has also said stuff I hated.
Cheech and Chong were a one trick pony.
I just can’t believe your list did not include Andy Kaufman. I do not get what the heck anyone saw in him, outside of Latka Gravas on Taxi.
Including Latka Grava. Not funny at all. Ever.
William, I’ll be 48 this year. How old does one have to be in your fogey-fied universe to be entitled to an opinion about individual performers who I grew up watching? Are film critics all to be fired? What about audiences who delight in booing opera performers.
You’re a bore.
Heh. That was telling him.
Interesting. Even in college, when I saw the Smothers Bros, click. Cheech and chong. Click. Carlin? Click. But friends always argued with me about Carlin. But I owned the tv, click. I told them they were staring at the screen waiting for a joke that would never come.
It reminds me very much of a good friend, a Professor, who argued passionately about the virtues of french movies. I said they were trash. A movie about a red balloon is DOA. Only the Americans, Brits, and Kurosawa have any idea how to make a movie. He was a wise man. He thought about it for days. And realized he was reflecting the reviews and essays about movies, not what he actually paid to watch. He decided I was right and I even heard him take on graduate students with the proposition. Fun.
Carlin, Pryor and a few others WERE very funny in their early years. Even Letterman was at one time, now look at him. Each one lost that ability to be funny as they aged except one, Bill Cosby. Perhaps Cosby’s sustainability is due in large part to always keeping it about family.
Thanks! I thought it was only me in a world that loved Carlin,* i was always glad to say he*s not funny!! Madigan is my favorite,Ron White would make me sit in the driveway many times until he finished,but Louis Black and especially Carlin always make me turn off the radio! Have you heard the stories about The Buffet? Eat Some Vegetables!!!
Quite right. In fact, you could intersperse each entrant with the modern art “giants” and cover the packaged to sell depressant, low and high brow at the same time.
Carlin was funny in his earlier days. He was great at observational humor, IMHO. It was when he was intentionally trying to shock you or in his later years (when he became quite bitter and angry) that he ceased to be funny.
Cheech and Chong were pretty much a one-trick pony, but “Dave’s Not Here” never ceases to have me ROTFLMAO — reminds me a lot of Abbott and Costello’s “Who’s on First”.
When I first heard Carlin’s “Seven Words that You Can’t Say on Television”, I thought it was funny, but then I also liked listening to Iron Butterfly’s “InnaGaddaDavida” (and that was without the benefit of drugs) so what can I say. I preferred Red Skelton, Jonathan Winters, and Danny Kaye to the Smothers Brothers (I thought Tommy was nasty, whiny little prick playing to his brother Dick’s smug earnestness) – guess I’m showing my age. I thought that Cheech ‘n’ Chong’s “Dave’s not here” routine was the only really funny bit that they did (though I did like Tommy Chong’s appearances on “That ’70′s Show; his stoner character was even more clueless than Ashton Kutcher’s “Mike Kelso” character).
Jonathan Winters was gut grabbing funny. Never mind that a strait jacket was kept in his home in Santa Barbara to use on him when he went over the edge mentally at times. What a dear man, too.
Winters was a strange and marvelously amusing man…. The Balclutha and the
Tonight show …. maude frickert and matisse….. spontaneous clarity and
humorous hyperbole , memorable and accomplished indeed.
Yeah — you’re basically right about Carlin. But the non-political stuff I have to admit was sometimes funny. I’m essentially thinking of the extended bit about baseball vs. football. I still can laugh at that one.
I agree with the article but do have a couple of quibbles. Carlin and the Smothers Brothers were hippies? The Smothers Brothers were hip commie folkies. Much too clean to be hippies. Carlin was a washed up nobody until he glommed onto the “hippie” label. But, did hippies actually really exist in the first place? Maybe, for a very short period of time around ’65 to ’67 in small enclaves between LA and San Francisco. But when someone advised stoned out kids to put a flower in their hair the thing called hippy became just a product of TV and mass delusion. By the time Carlin showed up as the hippy dippy weatherman it was all just a negative feedback parady.
As for Cheech and Chong, #10. Ronnie Schreiber hits on something. “Cheech and Chong were the Three Stooges (though not nearly as funny) to the Firesign Theater’s Marx Brothers.” But Cheech and Chong did have their moments; I refer you to the restaurant scene in “Nice Dreams”.
Good article and a good list. As you rightly point out about Bruce, he was occasionally funny. The same is true of everyone on this list, at times they were funny, but not very often and they really weren’t very good comedians. As you point out, anyone can go to youtube and decide if these guys were funny or not. I watched a documentary about Lenny and there was nothing funny in it.
What I find interesting is how drug consumption must have influenced the audiences to believe these guys were funny most of the time. IE everyone on your list benefited from their audiences being too stoned to do anything but giggle.
It just occurred to me, but the same folks back in the 60′s that thought these guys were funny probably thought the read Playboy for the articles.
I loved the stoner versus the alcholic comparison. Seems true.
How did they find out that Princess Dianna had dandruff ?
Cheech and chong “Dave’s not here”. Stoner version of abbot and Costello “who’s on first”. Very funny. Some stuff not so great.
Best American comedian ever in my opinion. Bill Cosby. Timeless topics of real life and family. He could make a visit to the dentist hilarious and did. Chocolate cake for breakfast.
Carlin had his moments. He was good at wordplay with a decent delivery and sense of timing. His topics became outdated after a while when they were no longer controversial.
Nobody mentioned Monty Python?
Anyway can’t compare Beatles to the Who. Apples to oranges. They used to say that the hardest thing in a Who recording session was keeping Keith Moon from falling off the drum seat. Yeah but listen to Baba O’Reily. Ringo could not have done that but was perfect for what the Beatles did.
Nice trip down memory lane.
“Bill Cosby. Timeless topics of real life and family. He could make a visit to the dentist hilarious and did. Chocolate cake for breakfast.”
That was from his hit “Bill Cosby Himself.” It’s on YouTube. Very funny stuff.
Someone mentioned doing a piece on underrated comedians; I think that’s a good idea. Gallagher & Jeff Dunham come to mind.
As I read through the comments my list for inclusion diminished as others had already beaten me to it. I would like to offer up Jerry Seinfeld – an extremely over rated and mostly unfunny comic. I would be remiss if I didn’t extend kudos to My4Sons for remembering Andy Kaufman – very unfunny!
This article and the comments have proven quite thought provoking. Some comedy is timeless and some is very temporal in nature. Cheech & Chong are a good example. In context…35 years ago…they were hilarious. Not anymore. I remember laughing my ass off at the SNL skits of 1975-1976. Today they’re “funny” only in the nostalgic sense. Both Steve Martin and Robin Williams, when they were doing strictly stand up routines earlier in their careers (i.e. pre-movie days) were hilarious. Today neither one of them is funny. I remember catching Tim Allen doing his original material on a Showtime or HBO cable channel. It wiped me out! Today that routine is far less funny than it was 25 years ago.
Perhaps Kathy should write a piece on UNDER rated comics. I’ll start you off with one…Rita Rudner.
I’ve loved Rita since her HBO days. I had a chance to see her in person last year, and she’s still as funny as ever. Never a curse word or off color joke. Just great domestic humor. To me, “What’s in there?” is a classic line.
What? Nobody mentions Peter Sellers? Not a stand-up, but arguably the funniest man of his time……..
“I thought your said your dog does not bite”
“That is not my dog”
I have this debate from time to time…lionizing leftists with little talent, just because they were on the “correct” side of political blather.
I think George Clooney is near talentless. I never understood the swoon over Alan Alda’s “talents”, and the combined skills of Mike Farrell would not fill a peanut shell.
The Moody Blues were probably the most talented group of my generation.
But…Pryor would make me physically fall on the floor. I’m sorry. You can hate the language, you can despise the lifestyle, you can clearly say he was no role model. Pryor could knock me out of my chair.
Charlie Sheen and Lindsay Lohan can only play themselves…and that’s simply too sad to be funny any longer.
“The Moody Blues were probably the most talented group of my generation.”
Absolutly!
They never did a cover, and all of the members contributed to the content of every one of thier albums.
I like the Moody Blues but this is nonsense. They did nothing to distinguish themselves that 40 other bands of that era did not do as well.
Oh really?
Which other 40 bands were backing their music with a philharmonic orchestra?
Which other 40 bands were using a Mellotron?
Which other 40 bands were mixing their albums with a 6×9 inch Alanco V magnet speaker because that’s where the music would be listened to on the AM band?
Which other 40 bands had a full time Floutist?
jsut curious.
Actually, lots of producers checked — and may very likely still check their recordings on small, cheap speakers to make sure their mixes sound OK in mono, in cars, and in small portable systems in general.
Yes, but Mike Pinder was the first to bring it up early on.
Berry Gordy and Phil Spector used tambourines and castinets respectively to emphasize the beat, realizing the kids’ radios, portables, at home or in cars, had little if any ability to reproduce bass tones.
Two bands using flute were Jethro Tull and Traffic.
Along with the studio players, recording engineers are due a lot of credit, two of several in particular being Larry Levine and Tom Dowd.
Listen, for example, to Carol Kaye’s bass lines on “Good Vibrations” and Sonny & Cher’s “The Beat Goes On.”
”
Which other 40 bands were backing their music with a philharmonic orchestra?”,
Let’s see, besides the Beatles in studio and Procol Harum in studio and live, Motown used most of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra at one time or another. See the documentary Standing In The Shadows of Motown for details.
“Which other 40 bands were using a Mellotron?”
The Mellotron history site I found cites a number of bands that used a Mellotron. It was a tape based, somewhat clunky device, and eventually synthesizers could do pretty much anything a Mellotron could do. A technological dead end.
“Which other 40 bands were mixing their albums with a 6×9 inch Alanco V magnet speaker because that’s where the music would be listened to on the AM band?”
I’m pretty sure that Berry Gordy at Motown was the first to do this. Kind of makes sense that a label named Motown would figure out that most of their music was heard over AM car radios. Just do a Google search on [motown gordy 6x9].
“Which other 40 bands had a full time Floutist?
As has been mentioned, Jethro Tull, Traffic, to name two.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the Moody Blues, but I can think of more virtuosic players and better songwriters. They’re good but a little lightweight. I think in that genre Procol Harum had more gravitas muscially (though Conquistador is hokey).
– when will Carlin bring the porkchops?
I agree that Jerry Seinfeld is very unfunny.
What I find the most interesting about this is the presumption that what I find funny is or should be someone else’s idea of funny. I see what to me is crap and a cultural embarassment, but to others it’s entertainment or art that they’re willing to pay for.
DIFFERENT
STROKES…
Different Strokes? I was more of a Hello Larry kind of guy, myself.
Good one, Ed, although I’ve never watched either show.
One example for me is a guy named Ludovico Einaudi that my local classical music station plays. The first time I hear him I thought it was a joke. Take about eight notes played slowly, repeat them thirty times or so and put a violin in the background; it’s my idea of sonic wallpaper. But not for those willing to open their wallets. And he’s probably living better than I am.
Carlin did comment on using the word N***er. It was one of the funniest things I ever saw. He did it during a show in Berkley. (Which was taped for HBO)
He asked why anyone got grief for using the word n***er? He pointed out that Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor could call each other N***er all day long and no one cared…because they’re n***ers.
He delivered it better, of course. But even funnier that the line itself was the camera panning the audience while they struggled with whether they should laugh.
“And The Who are better than The Beatles.”
YAY! Someone else sees the light!
So who are the best conservative comedians today?
To get a response to that, I recommend you listen to the Blue Collar Comedy Network on XM/Sirius. There are a few that get played on there that simply aren’t funny, but there has been a great many times I’ve sat in my rental car (I used to travel a lot at the Army’s whim) for a good 10-15 minutes because the comedians were hilarious.
Dude, they even play old Jerry Clower clips!!!!! Too funny, if you ask me.
I don’t have access to XM/Sirius.
I notice you’re the only one who responded though.
Is there a reason why conservative comedians are so few in number?
Maybe it seems that they are so few in number because they don’t insert their politics into every joke? I wonder why they would keep their political affiliation on the d/l? Hmm……
I’m amazed nobody’s brought up Bill Maher. But then, he was so unfunny as a stand-up comic that nobody remembers anymore that he WAS one before “Politically Incorrect”…so I guess he doesn’t count as overrated comedian.
Bill Maher is a comedian?
He’s not a comedian. He delivers lines other people write.
I agree that Maher isn’t funny but for arguments’ sake, that would mean the Bob Hope, Milton Berle, and Johnny Carson weren’t comedians. A good deal of the art of comedy is in the delivery.
Libs two main methods of argument are hypocracy and unfariness.
Smothers thought the campaign against his show was unfair because his point of view was absent from the airwaves, hypocritical in a country that professes free speech.
Smothers exploded in anger because Penn used these same arguments against him. Today Smothers is the unfair hypocrite.
My dad told me that if somebody gets in you face like that to advise them to step back. If they are not too small or too old (Smothers), hit them in the face. Nobody had the right to yell at you like that. If you lose the fight, that is OK. No Future, No Future, For MEEEE!!!
I have only one comment in general agreement with the theme of this article. Check out movie ratings for “A Hard Day’s Night” which are generally four stars, because it starred the Beatles, and “King Creole” which generally gets two, because it starred Elvis Presley. The former was silly if entertaining, but the latter was a serious and very fine movie. Those making the ratings, just as those deciding what other cultural artifacts are worthy, love the Beatles and weren’t too fond of Elvis. Politics of the stars had everything to do with it.
The Smothers Brothers were on the Danny Thomas Show for crying out loud- my GRANDMOTHER liked them.
Likely, so was Harry Belafonte and maybe even Jane Fonda.
I met Red Skelton in Maui, he was painting on the beach in the early morning. We talked to him for a few minutes before realizing who he was. Didn’t appreciate the encounter until later in life. I Was only 22 at the time and my parents favorite, He told us the story of the skyjumper and the Coleman Camper..that is when we recognized him.
Victor Borge is comedian that has not been named here, He preceded most of the names in this article and was a class act and trailblazer for decades. Tim Conway, Jackie Mason, Rodney Dangerfield was a machine gun doing standup, it was nonstop.
although this article is supposedly rating liberal comics, there should be a standard by which to measure against..what would be an acceptable liberal comic…Bill Cosby is not liberal so he is out, Maybe Victor Borge or Red Skelton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0aFPXr4n4
George Carlin on Global Warming
…I like this one Carlin moment..
“The Big Electron”……..sounds like a higher power to me.
I’ve got to agree that this bit of social commentary is something to ponder….
I’ve said this before and I’ll repeat it here again: I do not vet my entertainment for some version of political correctness. I don’t follow the lives of the entertainers themselves. I don’t care what they think of today’s political scene or what movements they sponsor.
It’s their damned money, let them spend it as they wish.
Sometimes they’re funny even though I know the facts are bogus. I believe in having arts, humor, and music in life. It would be very bleak without it. The fact that the art expresses a point of view I disagree with doesn’t bother me.
Like Penn Jillette, I would even discuss my views with the likes of Adolph Hitler (assuming my life weren’t in jeopardy from doing so).
George Carlin had his moments, as did Louis CK, Cheech and Chong, The Smothers Brothers, and so many more comedians. If we are too serious, we will become like Ayatollah Khomeini. We’re better than that, aren’t we?
Kathy, when you write,
“(Also? Liberal hero Jon Stewart employs a stable of writers to help him do a hour of taped comedy five days a week. Limbaugh? Live, three hours a day, five days a week, 20-plus years – all by himself.)”
I think you are being unfair to Jon. Rush has the Obama administration, the 535-member congress and the whole Democrat party writing for him. You can’t make this stuff up.
Oh, and you’re right about the alcoholics. No questions at all.
Having the President, Congress, and the whole Democrat Party draft his stand-up material worked wonders for Will Rogers back in the day.
“The “Mona Lisa” is supposedly the greatest painting ever, too. It makes me go “engh.””
I agree. I’m not sure who it is who claims that (it wasn’t even particularly well-known until the 20th century). But it’s a pretty ordinary painting. I got more entertainment chuckling at the crowds crammed around it at the louvre. The walls in the hall behind them are plastered with numerous brilliant, breathtaking, genuinely beautiful paintings. But no – they’re all crammed in to see this moldy-looking picture of some linen-merchant’s missus. I wonder if there’s some irony in it: the louvre curators aren’t actually displaying the painting at all – they’re displaying the crowd that comes to see it. Warhol would approve.
On a related note (in my mind, anyway), what is it with people who travel overseas to famous places and take a million pictures of … themselves, standing in front of famous things. Ok, sure, if they’re particularly attractive then it might make for a pleasant picture. But are they taking these pictures for themselves, or for other people? Because when I take pictures of things, I don’t really need to see me in them. I can see me any day.
As for the comedians, yeah. Lots of “recognized” comedians aren’t actually very funny. Carlin was good in Bill and Ted, though.
As a fan of Leonardo, I think he’d be embarrassed watching the way people try to elevate that painting to mythical status.
Biff Barf in the Sport-lite Spot light? Not funny? Aw come on! Drink up, Shriners!
I agree with most of the observations concerning the comedians. You pretty much have to have a liberal mindset to appreciate most popular comedians.
However, I get a little tired of the self-righteous booze hounds who constantly rationalize their own drug use while disparaging marijuana smokers. I did my share of both in my youth, and from my perspective, drinking is the worse of the two. Stoners don’t think they can drive 100 mph. They don’t think it’s a good idea to sass a cop. They don’t slap around their wives and beat their kids. They don’t think the office Christmas party is the perfect time to tell their boss what they really think. They can still get up in the morning and go to work without calling in sick or be reduced to a worthless slug by a hangover. About the best thing that can be said for alcohol is that most parties would fail without it. It is a social lubricant.
Boozers like to portray all stoners as fat, slacker do-nothings. You may be surprised that the guy at the office that does a great job, just might toke a fatty once in a while. No one who is stoned all the time can successful, and neither can someone who’s drunk all the time. We just make excuses for the drunk.
Cheech and Chong are hardly representative of the casual dope smoker once you get out of your college years (where you were probably drunk all the time too). It would be like saying that everyone who drinks is just like Otis the town drunk on Mayberry.
I do not particularly endorse either alcohol or marijuana. I just get annoyed when an bottle fairy gets on their high horse over a pot head.
And as far as legality, when was the last time you drove home knowing you couldn’t pass a breathalyzer test?
Hmmm…
Issues, perhaps?
Nah!
John,
Hey, we ALL have issues. That’s why we express them here on the PJM forum. Obviously, each of us have our own particular set of issues. For example, I’ve noticed a lot of people have issues with criticisms of 60′s music and Baby Boomers. So I guess I’ll ask you – What’s your point?
Alcohol is still, by far, the most destructive drug (overall) today – at least in the west (afghanistan’s issues might be different). Sure, if you happen to be one of the crack addicts or meth users that might seem like a strange thing to say. But the total number of people whose lives are either mangled or held back by the booze dwarfs the harder drugs. And the fact that it’s acceptable means the problem is so much harder to acknowledge and deal with.
Dope is becoming a more serious issue as the stronger strains are bred. The link with schizophrenia is now pretty well established. But yeah, the incidence of violent dope-heads is way lower than the incidents of violent drunks. Until crack and meth came along, pretty much only PCP could rival alcohol as a way to turn somebody nasty.
Alcohol is the worst, but it is also the most abused due to ease of access/social acceptability. Would the country be better if King Weed dethroned the King of Beer? IMHO, no, just a different set of problems.
To take the question seriously … I’m not actually sure. I suspect the answer might be yes, because dope is so much less addictive than alcohol is (for a lot of people). And there definitely would be less dope-related violence than what it would replace. Dope is also quite a bit cheaper than alcohol (at least where I come from) for a similar level of entertainment.
There would be a different set of heath problems, though – that’s the part I’m not so sure about.
“Yeah, I’m a heretic. I also fell asleep during Star Wars.”
I didn’t fall asleep, but I rolled my eyese a lot. Star Wars is a kiddie movie.
“Bruce Springsteen? Pompous blowhard.”
Not only that, he’s a hypocrite. Ever hear about his lifestyle? He’s about as blue collar as Warren Buffet, who, incidentally, has similar guitar-playing talents.
“The Godfather? Long stretches of beige nothingness.”
Sorry, but that’s sacrilege. The Godfather, is hands-down the greatest achievement of American movie history. Watching an idealistic Michael Corleone get systematically compromised and ultimately destroyed by the harsh reality of life is as good as it gets. And the harder he tries to protect his vision and those closest to him, the more compromised everything gets until he ultimate loses everything, ending up a depressed old man who dies alone on a bench in Sicily. I see something new in the Godfather movies every time I watch them.
“And The Who are better than The Beatles.”
You’re kidding, right? The Who were good, but nowhere near as inventive as the Beatles…and they don’t have as many good tunes, either.
As for the rest of it, I thought Cheech & Chong and George Carlin were funny. They both appeal to a base sense of humor, but they’re still funny.
Of course, George Carlin was nowhere near as cerebral as South Park (no, I’m not kidding)…but libs will never give South Park that kind of iconic status because of its libertarian bent.
I forgot to mention a few ballyhooed comedians who are supposedly funny and are anything but.
Abbott and Costello were not funny. Annoying maybe, but funny, no.
Dean and Martin weren’t funny, either…and neither was Bob Hope.
The Marx Brothers, however, were very definitely funny. As hell.
Groucho was a genius.
Um, what?
A mere glance at a Wikipedia article confirms the obvious influence of The Who:
“The Who are one of the most influential rock groups of the 1960s and ’70s, influencing artists from Led Zeppelin to The Clash. Bono of U2 said, ‘More than any other band, The Who are our role models.’ Brian May of Queen said, ‘They were my inspiration.’ Wayne Coyne of The Flaming Lips said, ‘I already believed in rock & roll, but seeing The Who really made me feel it. I knew I had to become a musician after that.’ Geddy Lee of Rush said, ‘They were really influential on our band in a big way.’ Pearl Jam’s Eddie Vedder said, ‘The one thing that disgusts me about The Who is the way they smashed through every door in the uncharted hallway of rock ‘n’ roll without leaving much more than some debris for the rest of us to lay claim to.’”
The band has also been called ‘The Godfathers of Punk’ due to their loud, aggressive approach to rock and the attitude evinced in songs like ‘My Generation’….
The group has been credited with originating the ‘rock opera’….Following Tommy were David Bowie’s The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis, and Pink Floyd’s The Wall in the 1970s….The Who’s influence can also be seen in early incorporation of synthesisers, with Who’s Next featuring the instrument prominently….The Who’s surviving members, Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey, were given Kennedy Center Honors for their enduring influence on popular culture.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who#Legacy_and_influence
The Who had the balls to point out the myriad hypocrises of the 60s counter-culture, which they did most prominently with “Tommy.” Songs like “Won’t Get Fooled Again” (“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”) and “Going Mobile” (“I don’t care about pollution, I’m an air-conditioned gypsy”) were also a poke in the eye to the self-righteous hippies. In comparison, the Beatles were merely followers of the counter-culture.
Um, take a look at the Beatles’ article for comparison.
Equating The Who to the Beatles is like comparing George W Bush to Reagan.
I’m probably going to sound like the heretic here, but Pink Floyd’s The Wall gets on my nerves. While I like the song “Mother”, and perhaps one or two other tracks, I honestly can’t figure out why I spent so many evenings listening to that album when I was in high school.
The Who, however, enjoy a prominent status in my mp3 player, along with Johnny Cash and The Monkees.
I loved Dark Side of the Moon in its entirety except for the lone hit, Money, which I hated and was out of place musically. I hated The Wall. They were trying to be “young” and relevant and unfortunately succeeded.
Being first isn’t the same as making a massive catalogue of good music.
Not fair. Several liberals appreciate South Park. South park is great and this is a liberal speaking. I laugh my but off at the sarcasm presented, and I often find myself laughing at myself because the writers do such a good job of showing how my assumptions and believes. Might be silly. I have found that conservatives have trouble with the show due to how it satirizes Christianity.
You are right. A lot of conservatives have problems with South Park not only for its satirization of Christianity, but for its overall language.
But I’m no socio-con. I lean libertarian.
Sorry for the sweeping generalization about how liberals regard it, though.
I think the real success of south park is that both ‘sides’ think it’s about the other guy. They’re equal-opportunity fun-pokers.
The important thing to note about Lenny Bruce was that in the movie of his life, his wife was played by Valerie Perrine.
Cheers
I’ll toss in two whom I enjoyed: Lord Buckley and Professor Irwin Corey. I met George Carlin late one night after his show at a local club in the early 1970s; he stopped by a local radio station and wanted to hear Lord Buckley albums, which he had obviously memorized. He supplied the party favors and a good time was had.
“I’ll toss in … Professor Irwin Corey.”
Was he originally a stand-up comedian?
I am a youngster of 40, and I only know Corey from his supporting roles in various B-movie sexploitation comedies that I watched on cable TV in the ’80s (after my parents were asleep!). I remember him having a hilarious delivery, though: “Sssshh, I’m tryin’ to hear the blend-ah!”
Corey’s original act on 50s and 60s TV and the club circuit was to stand in front of a chalk board or lectern in an ill-fitting, shabby tux and sneakers and act like Socrates, billed as “The World’s Foremost Authority.”
Great comedians, IMO: Carol Burnett, Bob Newhart.
Is it possible to write a critique of obnoxious liberal comedians without descending to their level? I think it is. In theory.
Some of us who read PJ Media every day are obese beta males. But I’m sure you meant that in the nicest possible way.
And sorry to say, you’re crazy that the Who are better than the Beatles. I wish you were right. The Monkees do rock.
Lenny Bruce wasn’t especially funny to start with, but the worst aspect of his career is that so many other comedians like Carlin imitated him. They were “hip” and “edgy” but they weren’t funny.
Yes, of course. Couldn’t agree more. EXCEPT . . . The Godfather is the greatest movie ever — no. 1 in my book.
Let’s contemplate some funny people who were contemporaries of his:
Dom Deluise, Guido Sarducci, John Belushi, Billy Crystal, Rip Taylor, Richard Pryor, Flip Wilson, Jonathon Winters, Buddy Hackett, Don Rickles…just off the top of my head.
Hippy-dippy weatherman. Extremely funny, the first time, which I saw. I couldn’t breathe for ten minutes. But this was the day of Laugh-In, and the next question is: so then what? Flip Wilson made you pee your pants almost every week. The summer specials with Richard Pryor (where NBC actually cancelled the show at a commercial, whether because the star was hopelessly stoned or because the material was outrageously racist, I am, to this day, unsure) were perhaps the funniest, most ironic (sometimes unintentionally) TV ever done, outside SOAP.
Just like the Smothers Brothers. Talented? Yes. Witty? Often. But they were doing George and Gracie, only not quite so well. I just think they, and Carlin, benefited from a stupid generation that was so self absorbed that they never heard of Buddy Hackett or Henny Youngman. After all, they also worshipped Gallagher, who only has one trick, yet, if one is stoned enough, makes one laugh, apparently until you deny the weed, which has yet to happen.
Don’t even get me started on Chevy frikkin’ Chase!
Not funny: Carlin, Bruce, Cheech & Chong (‘fat, high & stupid is no way to go through life, son’).
Sometimes funny: Smothers Brothers, Louis CK (when they stick to comedy and avoid social/political commentary).
Twice funny: Robin Williams: (Mrs. Doubtfire & on the air in GM Vietnam). Completely agree w/ poster who said running around a room (ostensibly comedic ‘energy’, I suppose, but to me, more like paranoia) is pathetic.
Disgustingly unfunny: Maher, Garofalo, Letterman, Griffin.
Intentionally funny: Colbert, Jonathan Winters (side-splittingly hilarious in Mad, Mad World), Demetri Martin, Brian Regan, Pam Madison.
Unintentionally funny: Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, Obama, Eric Holder, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Bawney Fwank, Chris Dodd, Charles Schumer, Anthony Weiner, John Edwards, all liberals.
Amusingly entertaining: Jay Leno.
So, in other words. Your s**t is stuff and Carlin’s stuff is s**t.
I tend to agree that Carlin turned into an angry old hippie, as was said a hundred times. I agree that many comedians morph into the outrageously unfunny as the sarcastic, misanthropic, anti-authoritarian rants they worked so hard on in their youth have reached national attention. Then, they have nothing left to offer, because they were so good at being bitter. Success defeats much of their rants about being an underdog.
I think Carlin had some very funny routines. Delivery is very important, and even in mundane observations, Carlin had a knack for delivery. I agree, however, that much of his personal disdain for anything religious, oozed out all over the stage in very unfunny displays.
I can’t believe everybody left out Saturday Night Alive. When it comes to funny it’s been dead for about 25 years. And I’m dead serious.
As to George Carlin, he was always about as funny as a root canal.
The funniest of the last 50 years has to go to two guys: Woody Allen and Larry David. Allen’s film scene of Allen as a follower of Hitler sitting behind the stage in uniform, waving to an audience member during a Hitler speech, is the single funniest piece of film ever created. And if you don’t agree, guaranteed, there’s something very funny about you.
The Who IS better than the Beatles. ‘Tommy’ runs circles around ‘Hard Day’s Night’.
The Who’s recent, ‘Endless Wire’ is a powerful album. Take a look at the surviving members ‘Thanks’ of the album. Moon and Entwhistle are mentioned by both.
Roger Daltrey STILL hits most of the high notes. Though admittedly the ‘Townsend farewell tours’ was a bit ridiculous.
Most of the Beatles catalog is Tiger Beat-like tunes for a Bieber-age targeted audience. The Who helped define rock.
Go to any rock/biker/metal bar. The Who will be there. The Beatles will be MIA.
McCartney’s ‘Wings’ band. That’s the biggest BS band of the 70′s. Craptastic stuff. It’s Leif Garrett lyrics with more instruments. McCartney’s solo stuff is elementary-like lyrics. Just looking at 70 + year old McCartney with ‘reddish-brown’ hair and ANOTHER wife.. the guy’s a joke.
The late George Harrison’s 1st solo album was/is his greatest hits album. Though he too was a self important rock star who changed faiths when it suited him.
Lennon, great songwriter but his, Harrison’s preachy antics (and McCartney later on in life) are nonsensical.
As for funny Jack Benny ANY DAY of the week beats the unfunny Letterman (though I dug 80′s Letterman, wrestling shoes & tacky plaid jacket) and uber-unfunny Leno on their best day.
Bob Newhart.. class act. Besides his comedy tour his 2 different Newhart shows were fantastic. IMO 1 of the best t.v. finales of all-time.
Don ‘Hello dummies’ Rickles. Comedy pours out of this guy’s pours. At 85 he’s still spot-on.
Rodney Dangerfield put standup back on the map in the 70′s when it was fading and is a mentor/inspiration to MANY of today’s successful/aspiring comedians. Dangerfied’s, Murray’s and Chase’s ad-libbing in Caddyshack is priceless.
Bill Murray, before he opted for faux-dramatic snoozers (Broken Flowers, Lost in Translation..) was incredible. I only tuned into Letterman in the 90′s when hearing of Murray as a guest, showing up unannounced.
Dennis Miller. The man’s deadpan delivery and being a hell of a wordsmith is comic gold. I was 1 of the few who liked his short stint on MNF. Though being with the relic, porn-stached Dierdorf and the other zombies..
This article is very much like one of those low-brow tirades that one would expect from a community college blog. It’s a simplistic rant based upon the author’s own aesthetic viewpoints that tries to present itself as an insightful criticism based upon logic and reason. In truth, it’s just a whiny polemic about what the writer likes or dislikes and a half-brained attempt to justify the author’s personal choices while implicitly demonizing anyone who thinks differently.
If PJ is going to print drivel like this then perhaps I can join in and submit some similar topics for publication, such as: “The top ten reasons why dogs are better than cats and why people who think otherwise are stupid” or “Why people who like chocolate ice-cream are morally superior to those that like vanilla” and “The ten best songs ever and if you think otherwise you are a stupid ass”.
Yeah, it’s a tough old world, ain’t it?
The other night I watched an old movie that I saw in the Theater.
Caddyshack.
I remember that I found it Hilarious when I saw it in the theater, but watching it the other night I was really straining to figure out what I found so funny back then.
I think the humor of the movie was what I would call, Topical Humor. It was funny in the context of how the media was portraying reality for the time. All that I have learned since then ruined the Topical Theme of the move for me.
Yet when I watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail it is still funny. Because it’s based on the true relationships between people and their governments, and each other.
That is to say, it’s not topical.
George Carlin was Topical. He was funny because we were told he was funny. Have you ever noticed that even today NO television show trusts the audience to know what’s funny, so they include a Laugh Track (Or a live audience with prompters) to tell you “Hey Viewer – This Is Funny; Start Laughing.”
Holy Grail is funny and CLEVER and TRUE. All great humor has some essential truth at its core and when a Python character says “Listen, strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government” that cuts very deep because it was a startling and funny new view of something that was actually real government.
The divine right of kings; the very complaint that is at the core of “all men are created equal,” one of the most misunderstood quotes in American history.
Caddyshack still hits my funny bone when I watch it; but I am the type to be readily amused by this brand of what I call “silly” comedy.
My favorite comedy of the 20th century would have to be the Eunice and Mama skits with Carol Burnett and Vickie Lawrence, even though what they were doing was Comedy of Cruelty. My example of someone who was not really Funny (if that was what he was aiming for) would be H. L. Mencken. I tried reading some of his essays and didn’t like what he was saying, and listened once to the record he made in ’48 at the Library of Congress, and all I heard was a grouchy old man griping that everyone in the world was stupid.
I agree with you about Mencken. I still read him, though, because of his style. He was a brilliant writer despite the curmudgeon schtick – which gets old pretty fast.
It’s all a matter of taste…
Greatest band of all time: Grateful Dead
Greatest movie of all time: Treasure of the Sierra Madre
Funniest guys of all time: Three Stooges or the Marx Brothers
If you don’t agree…it just means you have different tastes…and that’s all it means.
You aren’t better than me, you aren’t worse than me…you just like different stuff. That’s all.
When they were on, they could be fierce, on the other hand the Dead could be self-indulgent noodlers following Jerry down a musical dead end. OTOH, check out Oct. 30, 1972, the first show I saw, and you’ll understand why they could be, at times, the best bad ever. The Stooges and Marx brothers are sort of the Ying and Yang of comedy, physical and cerebral, though the Stooges could crack wise (I love their Yiddish) and the Marx brothers did plenty of physical comedy.
“check out Oct. 30, 1972″
Ford Auditorium in MoTown. I’m listening right now. Thanks for the recommendation!
Here’s one back at you.
Hollywood Palladium 08/06/1971. You won’t regret it.
I would not argue your choices except for the Grateful Dead. I would say that Steely Dan was the greatest band of all time, but then, I am a musician and I know that what they were doing was superior music. Perhaps the Dead were better entertainers or that they had more ‘meaning’ for you. However based on song structure, harmony, chord progression, metaphorical lyrics, arrangements, longevity of musical value and that so many Jazz artists play SD music … same could be said for the Beatles. The dead were more of a cult and I can understand that.
Hey, if you think “Rikki Don’t Lose That Number” is a more awesome piece of music than “Dark Star”…who am I to rain on your parade?
Enjoy and God bless.
Yes, jazz bands cover Steely Dan. Branford Marsellis and David Murray played with the Grateful Dead.
Oh, and Donald Fagen’s Dukes of September project with Boz Scaggs and Michael McDonald have covered the Dead’s Shakedown Street.
George Carlin wasn’t funny to those without the ability to understand contemporary satirical comedy. The kinds of people who couldn’t understand his humor were those who couldn’t understand the complexities of peeing into the toilet rather than on the floor. The kinds of intellectually bankrupt sub-human illiterates who drool over this kind of garbage are not able to understand their own names much less satirical comedy. These beings couldn’t find their own asses with both hands and a map.
That’s a lot pontificating to try and convince us all you are part of the inner circle of understanding, when really you just sound like a bloviating Carlin worshiper who cannot accept that everything the man said wasn’t word of god. Ironic that Carlin’s staunchest supporters sound a lot like the religious fanatics Carlin rails against so often.
He was very funny at times. Other times, he wasn’t. He was satirical, but all satire isn’t good satire. For instance, your post is an attempt at satire, but it’s not very good satire, because it doesn’t hold a scintilla of truth. It’s just a mediocre attempt to infer Carlin detractors are morons.
Agree. With. Everything. You. Have. Written. Hallelujah for having the guts to point out that every last one you mentioned was highly overrated and lasted as long as they did because they were championed by all the “right” (Left) people.
“He’s like Dane Cook for grown-ups.” Hmmm…minor preference cascade regarding both.
These guys seemed funny because they were part of the counter-cultural moment. They don’t seem quite so funny anymore because the moment has passed.
But my dear, The Who better than the Beatles? As musicians, yes, but not as songwriters. The Beatles didn’t have to be great musicians. They had a great producer.
BTW–I could be mistaken, but I believe “I Want to Hold Your Hand” was intended to be ironic. Just a thought!
Marx Brothers: predators
Three Stooges: prey
Discuss.
I think success has a lot to do with it. A standup comedian early in his/her career may only be concerned with getting laughs and getting paid. For some, that probably means caution – push the limits but don’t push anyone’s buttons. When they become big names, maybe they feel more secure. They’re no longer afraid of losing work so they start interjecting “issues” into their acts, stuff they feel is important. Like Carlin – the bigger he got, the wider his comedic scope became. He went from talking about funny little everyday things to commenting on his worries about the state of the world. Robin Williams did the same thing – went from being a wacky, hyperactive clown to being a political commentator.
I also think that anger is like rocket fuel to some comedians but to others its poison. People like Don Rickles and Sam Kinison used it brilliantly. Others, like Carlin or Janeane Garofalo, became so angry they forgot to be funny. This happens to creative liberals quite a bit these days. They’re so pissed off they can’t do art anymore. They just vomit anger into the microphone or onto the screen. That’s why most of the Iraq War movies didn’t turn out well. Too much anger, not enough art.
Left-wing comedians like Garofalo aren’t aiming their comedy at a general audience, the way Lucille Ball or Henny Youngman did.
These left-wing comedians are aiming their comedy at a left-wing audience, who in general are as pissed off and angry at the rest of the country as the comedians are. It’s more of a partisan rant than a comedy routine, with the partisan audience cheering the “comedians” on.
And I’ve also noticed that there’s no attempt by the left-wing comedian to claim that it’s all in fun, the way Don Rickles’ insults or those annual “roasts” that modern Presidents have had to sit through are all in fun. No, it’s usually bitter and angry, intended to make her targets uncomfortable rather than laughing at themselves.
Garofalo was one of the worst offenders in that regard. She made up for her lack of comedy talent with rage against the society she felt was against her for her sexual orientation.
Thought provoking. I loved Carlin early, hated him late. Robin Williams has shown flashes of brilliance, both acting and comedy. Most of the time, he is an overbearing bore.
I watched an entire Rita Rudner special on HBO one night, clean as a whistle that had me chuckling the entire 90 minutes. Bill Cosby was funny at one time. I still think I Love Lucy is the funniest comedy ever written, followed by All in the Family close second.
But then I think A Christmas Story and Animal House were the two funniest movies I’ve ever seen. To each their own.
However, I never could get passed you believing the Godfather was bland. Best Movie Evah!!! That’s almost sacrilege.
If you Love Lucy, get thee to an Old Time Radio Archive and download some episodes of My Favorite Husband, the show that was the model for ILL. It was largely the same production bunch, from script to music. Some of the shows are more than familiar – some of them were transferred almost word-for-word. They are Liz and George Cugat -later Cooper- he is a bland suburban banker, and they have a maid. In place of the Mertzes are the Atterbury’s; Mr Atterbury is George’s boss at the bank. He and wife Iris are played by Gale Gordon and Bea Benedaret, who Lucy originally wanted as the Mertzes.
A lot of “same but different” and still -STILL – very funny!
PS – one major culture shock – in the introduction by the announcer, he speaks of this show as “the gay family series.”
If you love Lucy, then you should check out the comedy of the real Queen of Comedy of the 1950s: Joan Davis.
“I Married Joan” was a terrific comedy show, an attempt by NBC to copy the success of “Lucy”–but it never had the ratings that “Lucy” did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvHjhbba8Z8
I think Bruce actually did have a sharp wit before legal troubles, romantic troubles and substance abuse turned him into a deteriorating bore. This for instance, was clever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CebRfSFnWGM
He had our current cultures sensibilities, but in the 50′s, which is actually kind of creepy, come to think of it.
Although I disagree with calling Bruce unfunny, I admit his was not belly-laugh humor. Sharp wit and laugh-out-loud funny aren’t the same things. I chuckled at Thank You, Maskman, and I was startled. But the word play and rampant absurdity of Abbott and Costello in their prime (especially on radio, not film), now that is funny.)
Great article.
I grew up with the early Carlin comedy. Some genuinely genius observations about life. Then I saw Carlin again in the 80s and found that he’d turned into a cranky old man who wasn’t in the least bit inventive, just oppositional. He wasn’t funny but he was still beloved by the Left. My lefty ex-inlaws from Madistan still love the Smothers Brothers and that along with Carlin’s establishment hating comedy gave me an important insight. Liberals love this kind of comedy because it validates their twisted view of the world. Your article encapsulates this idea perfectly. Thanks!
The Doonsbury comic strip is the best example I can think of where everyone pretended to like it because to do so put you in an elite group. After it stopped being about a hip college student vs. his uncool parents, it not only wasn’t funny, it made no sense at all. Still, no paper pulled the plug on this unread and unreadable thing, probably because the editor had fond memories of passing the bong and the comic strip around his college dorm room. They would have produced the same giggles if it was a page from the phone book.
Garfield. That’s all I’m saying about that.
Nobody’s mentioned Chris Rock, who seems to be pretty much unassailable, but, aside from his most famous routine (“Black people vs. Niggaz”) he’s always struck me as an off-putting and mean-spirited version of Richard Pryor.
David Cross is almost too easy of a target. It’s not that he’s unfunny, he’s actually anti-funny.
For all the praise Andy Kaufman receives (usually only from other comedians) he was awful. That disgusting simpering cutesy foreign man character? Treating other people like dirt in the name of alternative performance art comedy? No thanks.
Oh right, Kaufman was the unfunniest excuse for entertainment that ever walked the SNL stage and into undeserved fame. Forgot about him, thanks (not!) for reminding me he ever lived!
It is a matter of taste, but……
The Beatles were revolutionary compared against the acts of the day. They brought an energy that only Elvis rivaled at that time. I love The Moody Blues, The Who, and have seen Dylan, The Stones, and have seen The Dead twice.
Star Wars also was revolutionary compared against what had been achieved before. The openning scene with the massive star destroyer pursuing Leia’s smaller starship portrayed agains the lifelike backdrop of an alien planet was lifelike and simply awesome. Sure today it seems a bit tame, but when it came out, it introduced a very visually compelling movie with unambiguous villains.
Carlin is boring. I miss Johnny Carson. One night Dean Martin, Don Rickles and George (?) was on and I was rolling on the floor.
The Marx Bros are in a league of their own.
And if you haven’t caught The Bob and Tom show on the radio, you are missing something.
IMHO (having listened in youth & teenhood to Carlin, Firesign Theater, Monty Python, The Smothers, Laugh In, Tom Lehrer, Abbot & Costello, Cosby, Cheech & Chong, The Marx Bros., Robin Williams, and so on), like some books, there are topical performers who don’t age well, and then there’s comedy for the ages.
Cosby on stage could just about give you a stroke. I saw him live twice, and it was amazing. The Marx Brothers are eternal. Firesign Theater is seared– SEARED!– into my memory.
Much of the humour of the 20th century was satiric, antiestablishmentarian stuff which (say, like the Pythons) utterly failed to realize that if you tore down the powers that be, much worse might be behind that. Contrast the current views of the anarchic and mocking Terry Jones– still shredding Western Civ in his various books & TV shows– versus the more regretful and insightful John Cleese, looking at the wreckage that is the modern UK nanny-state. Or those tired folks still bashing Catholicism & Christianity, as if rising radical Islam & bullying secularism weren’t all around them in media and political aggressiveness.
Those older Left-wing comedians were just that– doing their comedic version of ‘break on through to the other side’, where the happy socialist land of one thought and communitarian joys and all that horrid utopian bosh of the Commies would come to be, with free love & no consequences for all. But there’s no ‘There’ there, only EUrocrats & bureaucrats & Obama & high taxes and abortion & declining birthrates and melting families and heartbroken kids and millions dead from AIDS.
The unravelling web of the West may yet be built up again, but not by hearkening back to those conscious or unconscious wreckers, who never want to deal with the real issues, nor mock the current all-holy pieties of political correctness.. in that sense, court jesters like Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert are generally on-plantation, and careful not to confuse their smug audiences with too much truth, or to venture outside the Leftward comfort-zone.
IMHO.
I saw Proctor & Bergman when they toured as a duo. The stuff works live too. Remember, though the Firesign albums were scripted, the radio show had a ton of ad libs. Of all the beat and hippy comics, I think Firesign Theater were the closest heirs to the tradition of the Marx bros. Maybe they were too good, too literate to have the commercial success that Cheech & Chong had. Like Dennis Miller’s humor, you have to know the cultural reference to get the joke.
If you don’t know about Heisenberg, you won’t get “uncertain” jokes. You gotta know your audience.
You mentioned Cleese and a more mature, reflective comedy. Kathy took issue with it when I said that Lenny Bruce was willing to skewer the left’s sacred cows but I really think that had it not been for heroin and his legal troubles Bruce’s comedy might have matured into something more substantial. Bruce was the kind of guy who wisecracked in any situation, an equal opportunity offender.
People don’t understand just how significant Bruce’s arrests were. For a while, it gave him fodder for some good material, like Blah Blah Blah, about getting arrested for using a word onstage and then seeing the same word bandied about at his trial. The down side is that for a working comedian, it killed his career. If Ed Sullivan thinking that Jackie Mason giving him the finger could throw a blanket over Mason’s then rising career, imagine what actually getting arrested for obscenity in the early 1960s did for your bookings. After he started getting arrested, Bruce started having a harder and harder time getting work. Club owners, worried about heat from police, wouldn’t hire him. I think in that context it’s easy to see how he went into a death spiral. At the end Lenny wasn’t funny.
That’s the biggest sin a comedian can commit. You can fake a lot of things, even sincerity, but you can’t fake funny.
Of course in many, many ways, Bruce’s arrests and death and the entertainment industry’s embrace of the Saint Lenny myth, probably did more to allow comedians to address a wider range of issues, including sex and talking dirty, than any court rulings, including Carlin’s own “seven words you can’t say on radio” bit. Lenny, a junkie who OD’d, was seen as a martyr to the cause of free speech. Remember, this was a time when Mario Savio was seen as a civil rights leader for championing the right to say Fu@k.
The article and the comments seem to suggest that a comedian is funny until he is no longer in it for the honest comedy. The moment it’s about art (see Woody Allen and others), politics (see the bulk of the article), or becoming a one-schtick-pony (IIRC, Rolling Stone magazine referred to Cheech and Chong as “the rise and decline (mostly the decline) of drug humor”), it becomes a niche performance. Here’s the math: When someone does a half-arsed joke that’s going to offend half the audience, the joke is (one half times one half equals) one fourth of what it could’ve been.
BTW, I’m usually repelled by “You’re Going to Like Me Because Everybody Else Does” comedians. This would be a functional category of “overrated.” I can sit through neither Jim “Goofy and Not Much Else” Carrey nor Jerry “Sucks Without a Laughtrack” Seinfeld. Yeah, I know: heresy. So burn me…..
If you took the laugh track away from Seinfeld there would be no worries. He smirks at his own jokes, so the audience would still know where to laugh.
Louis CK? Barely heard of him, mainly from the young leftards I work with, who discuss hi every word breathlessly. All I need to know.
Smotherses? Barely remember them. Saw, more recently, one episode of their original show, where one of them is a ghost. STOOOOPID.
Have made a studious point of never listening to Lenny Bruce. Everything I have ever heard about him makes it sound he was about as funny as a dead kitten.
Cheech & Chong – All right now. No, I am not a stoner. Can hardly remember what the stuff smells like. Probably in my life I never smoked as much as Tommy Chong has with breakfast. But they have some very clever and material. It takes a special kind of smart to be stupid that well. Kelly Bundy did it very well too. So did Beavis n Butthead. Anyway, I watched a clip of C&C not long ago – I was looking for a particular bit I wanted to share – and I was almost embarrassed at how hard I was laughing. Oh I just thought of another bit and started laughing.
Carlin – yeah, over-rated for the most part. I think he’s one of those people who is “funny-one-time”, then it’s just lame, or the shock value is gone, or you just know better. A few exceptions.
Ya know who else is over-rated? Robin Williams. Total suckfest. Oddly though ,who I am appreciating more and more over time is Steve Martin.
I said Dave’s not here!
It’s weird how many people here get the fact that some comedians get weirdly shrill and serious and unfunny but those comedians themselves don’t get it. Do they have no one around them to tell them they are not as wise or entertaining as they think when they put lessons ahead of comedy?
Letterman definitely makes that list as does Carlin who became an old and preaching fool. Milton Berle didn’t age well. Rosie O’Donnell is a classic example and Whoopi Goldberg went straight to shrewish, wise, harridan without a stop at funny as did SNL’s Nora Dunn. Cosby seems to have two modes: one where he preaches and one where he performs and doesn’t confuse the two.
Garofolo is another classic: suddenly she’s an expert on military force-to-space ratio and history with anger on top. Chelsea handler: not angry, just the richest unfunny comedian in American history. There’s no trash like white trash audiences.
SNL, pah! SCTV was a hundred times funnier, and because it didn’t rely on topical humor, it’s still funny today. There were parodies of personalities of the day, but not up-to-date in the news issues, so you can still laugh at the impersonations of Jim and Tammy Bakker, Kissinger, William F. Buckley Jr., etc., instead of watching an extended sketch about some long-gone scandal that nobody remembers anymore.
Oddly enough, SCTV made fun of a lot of these comics we’re talking about, and I think Rick Moranis AS George Carlin was a lot funnier than Carlin himself. Just watching him sort of wriggle around as he delivers Carlin’s oh-so-clever observations (in the same voice, too) is hilarious: “Have you ever noticed, when your out on a date…you worry about little things…like if you’ve got a booger in your nose?” (This was in the middle of ‘Death of a Salesman’, by the way.)
And for any other Canadians out there, I think Wayne & Shuster were a lot funnier than the Smothers Brothers. I still laugh at the Shakespearean Baseball Game. (Canadians are funnier than Americans, let’s face it.)
I agree with you about SCTV. As a whole, it was much funnier than SNL. Though every now and then the Not Ready for Primetime Players would accidentally create something brilliant, the show was mostly garbage and a musical guest star. I don’t know if Canadians are funnier than Americans (though it often seems that way). I think it could be that most Canadian comics are concerned about being funny, whereas most American “artists” of all types seem to be concerned more with “relevance.”
Richard Pryor was one of the funniest comics ever, even with the profanity. He told hilarious stories that lightly covered real pain. He was an artist. First humor that caught my eye/ear was Tom Leher (spelling?). Still get a kick out of his WWIII song and the Vatican Rag. You are right about Carlin, not so funny. Lenny Bruce was boring, too hip.
Add Daniel Tosh to the unfunny list
Maybe I have low brow tastes, but Jim Varney always made me smile (“Howdy, Vern!”) I remember when president Bush invited him to take questions at a press conference. He was asked about the japanese Yen, he paused, and then responded: “I get a yen every once in a while.”
George Carlin did precisely two funny sketches in his career, like genuinely, laugh-out-loud funny: “Fussy Eater” and “Icebox Man”. And even those, I found most hysterical when I was 13.
Not coincidentally, these were also the only routines I’ve heard from him that stayed absolutely away from any kind of “social commentary”. It took me until university to realize how anti-Catholic he was in his other routines, and the gut-wrenching hurt of that was really one of my first lifetime feet-of-clay moments. (I was a sheltered and lucky kid.)
So I can’t say George Carlin was never funny, but I can remember precisely when he stopped being funny to me.
A last thought: someone doesn’t have to make me laugh outloud to appreciate their humorous take on life; insight/imagination, cleverness and good timing in delivery are enough to make me a fan.
The person who wrote “George Carlin Wasn’t Funny: The Top Five Most Overrated Comedians” didn’t even bother to put their name after it; pure and childish high school name calling because he/she don’t have the intelligence to explain WHY these comedians aren’t funny. Probably because he/she and the rest of the commentators here are the butt of their jokes. Voices from a “free” America at a little known website.
Perhaps we are reading different articles because the first time, and every time thereafter I have seen;
Posted at 1:13 am on December 31st, 2011 by Kathy Shaidle
Right there above the Icons for [E-Mail] [Print] and Fontsize.
But based on your commentary I see that you read the title and commented without actually reading the content, so it doesn’t surprise me you missed her name as well.
Tommy Smothers is a self-righteous jackass. You must read this about his run-in with Bill Cosby. “The Case of Bill Cosby vs. Tommy Smothers’ Head” http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/11/the_case_of_bil.html
Finally, people who point out the emperor has no clothes.
George Carlin actually had a sit-com on Fox in their early days. It failed, not b/c of censorship, but b/c he wasn’t funny.
You’ll hear old clips from Bob Newhart on XM. Listen to old Bill Cosby jokes and you’ll bend over laughing. Old Woody Allen stand-up will make your jaw drop at how funny a cerebral nerd can be (way before The Big Bang Theory.) But people DON’T play clips from Lenny Bruce, b/c he wasn’t funny. He was never funny.
And the Smothers Brothers saga has been presented so many times that it’s more of a joke to continue to insist they not be forgotten. Scratch that, they SHOULD be forgotten b/c they were BORING. They were Vaudevillian comics w/ poor delivery, dull folk music and weak political minds.
And yes The Who was great, but there’s no need to knock the Beatles.
Funny that all the comics you mention, Woody Allen, Bill Cosby and Bob Newhart, were huge fans of Lenny Bruce. Gerald Nachman’s Seriously Funny quotes Newhart as saying that Bruce and Richard Pryor were his favorite comics. Listen to Bruce’s Carnegie Hall album and you’ll laugh. He was probably at the top of his game then before the dope and legal troubles increased.
Nachman calls Lenny the Elvis of standup. Yes, you can write books about the dreck that Elvis turned out, how he let his talent dissipate, but listen to the Sun Sessions and try to say that isn’t vital music. The same is true about Bruce’s early work and comedy.
Grits ain’t groceries, eggs ain’t poultry and Mona Lisa was a man. Over at Big Hollywood some genius has proclaimed Imagine as “the worst song of all time”. When folks are revising history, there’s not much point in arguing with them. Carlin made us all giggle early on. Lenny Bruce was hilarious before he got too serious. The Smothers had their moments. When they start on Elvis, The Beatles and Bob Dylan while acclaiming The Monkees, there’s no hope for any truth. Cultural revisionism of this sort is the hardest part of being a conservative.
I loved The Who, however.
I can live with “Imagine” being named the worst song of all time. Based on the philosophy of nihilism he espoused in it, I doubt Lennon’s losing much sleep over it himself these days.
The worst song or the worst message of all time? I’ve always looked at it as just a little day dream. It’s not like he was that committed to it, after all. Either way, I can name dozens worse without even breaking a sweat. Besides, one listen to Ticket to Ride, Day Tripper or Paperback Writer undoes any damage done.
The problem with “Imagine” is he can’t imagine himself living in a 3 million dollar mansion or imagine himself inside the cordon of bodyguards at events rather than outside.
While it’s your right, I stopped reading at “I prefer the Monkees to the Beatles”. Some people prefer Velveeta and I prefer sensible opinions.
Comedy shows men as worse than they are: Aristotle
All men are bores, none so great a bore as to contradict me in this…SK
The purpose of comedy is to show people for the asses they are beneath their snooty denial. Great comedy is born in honesty. (Bruce, Pryor and at his best Rock) There are great varieties of the comic; they may corespond to the varieties of human disguises.
Ms. Shaidle confuses aesthetic appreciation with agreement/disagreement,
Her choices are personal,; we all have our own. I can laugh with Stewart or Miller, or C.K. without letting my ageement/disagreement play killjoy.
The simple truth is when comics try to score political points, the comedy suffers. I can’t stand Colbert on Jody Miller on News bust. (I agree but its not clever.)
C.K.’s “Everything’ amazing, nobody’s happy” is genius; no hint he hates Sarah.
Right about the Smos Bros. But you should have contrasted C & Chong with a Foster Brooks clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brYfm0ktJ3E
I’d rather hear anyone’s five favorite comedians, than complaints about what basically they don’t appreciate.
Why is no one taking sides over Monty Python?
Well I have to heartily agree with this article. None of those people are funny to me at all, and the Beatles and other musicians mentioned could never compete with my favorite, Lawrence Welk, who was a true musical genius.
I am glad that some else hates these liberal icons as much as I do. Creativity has always been a sign of drug addiction and subversive thoughts. Both which should be legislated against! Banned totally.
The Libs are always saying that these low life commie types are So Creative and so on, well we all that it is likely that they have all been made slaves to Satan. That’s the truth, and everyone knows it.
Yuuuup!
I’m rendered utterly speechless by this post.
Good satire, perhaps a trifle too subtle; most will consider you serious.
I wouldn’t say you’re a “heretic” so much as someone incapable of appreciating artistry. Let’s agree on one thing, there exist people who are incapable of appreciating artistry. The disagreement starts and the first problem is that people never think of themselves in this group. The second problem then is one of developing tools for self-criticism that can allow one to simply self-diagnose.
Anyone who considers “The Godfather” boring or fell asleep during “Star Wars” simply has little appreciation for film and that’s the long and short of it. Try and remember they are not novels told with “piktures” and you’ll come a long way. I often see films critiqued in almost the identical way one would a novel, as if editing, casting, cinematography, design, art direction, screenplays and the whole nine yards are an irrelevance and nuisance to think about.
Try telling us “The Godfather” was boring in those terms and see how far you get.
“Let’s agree on one thing, there exist people who are incapable of appreciating artistry.”
Yeah, that’s it, I don’t apprecate Artistry.
I remember when I was told that in no uncertain terms.
I was at a Gallery Showing and someone had Crumpled up a Piece of paper then flattened it out – he then dipped in plaster of paris and let it set. After it had set, he hung it longwise by two strands of fishing line in a plexiglass box measuring 12 1/2 x 15 x 3 and it had a price tag of $3,000.00.
When I pointed out that “I could make that, and for less than $20.00″ I was told to shut up if I couldn’t appreciate Artistry!
That’s gotta be it, I don’t apprecaite artistry. (or maybe the stuff really was boring!)
I was talking about something just a little more prominent by way of being a project than some stupid conceptualized and intellectual fine art which is nothing more than an empty con game. As such, hanging your argument on it is empty. The essential fact stands: not everyone is capable of appreciating artistry but everyone is convinced they are not one of them.
The irony in your comment is that the democratization of intellectual fine art is where the idea of utter subjectivity first crept into fine art. In my world however a scribbling on a piece of paper is not equal to Maxfield Parrish. Only the supremely untalented, fine artists, think this. If you can’t meet a standard, bring it down to your level.
“Lawrence Welk, who was a true musical genius.”
Here’s my idea of hell: I’m in a room with Lawrence Welk, an accordian, and a Colt .45…and, I suddenly realize I can’t kill myself, ’cause I’m already dead.
The Godfather is a real snoozer.
Here’s FIVE modern gangster movies that are better (in no particular order):
1. Reservoir Dogs.
2. The Usual Suspects.
3. Pulp Fiction.
4. Goodfellas.
5. City of God.
I was just watching High Sierra, and that’s better too. That’s on account of I’d much rather look at Ida Lupino’s legs for an hour and a half, than have to see Marlon Brando’s face for three hours (duh).
Off the top of my head, the most overrated movies of all time: Citizen Kane, The Godfather, 2001.
Put one of those on, and I don’t need no sleeping pills.
And…there’s no point in telling me that I’m a cultural barbarian, with plebian tastes and no sense of fine artistry…’cause I already know all that.
You forgot the Ultimate Bank Robery movie — HEAT!
A friend of mine had a bumper sticker with an attributed quote from Carlin that said: “They call it ‘The American Dream’ because you have to be asleep to believe it”. I told the driver of the car, “You know, I think Mr. Carlin was a *few* steps above poverty when he died.”
Yes, Carlin was too angry in his later years to be funny, but that wasn’t always the case. His early RCA records were very funny, and even during the “Little David” years, he was more often funny than not. (I always preferred Robert Klein, but that’s another story.) Some people find anger – or “angry comedy” – funny; I do not. And I’m not just talking about the overtly angry, like Sam Kinison (who I NEVER found funny), but also those whose anger simmered just above – or below – the surface, like *most* political/social satirists, and *many* contemporary comedians. For all the talk of Lenny Bruce’s “cutting edge” on the censorship issue, a guy like STAN FREBERG managed to attack “political correctness” in 1957(!) and actually be FUNNY! (Listen to the “Elderly Man River” bit from his radio show of that year, and be amazed at its prescience – while you laugh.)
Cheech and Chong was a “niche” comedy act that seemed to have found a bigger audience than they really had a right to anticipate: as their drug humor and rehashes of juvenile (often “potty”) humor suffered the law of diminishing returns, they successfully changed media (movies) and managed to stretch their “15 minutes”.
Embarrassment or “unease” comedy – a la Andy Kaufman – never did much for me either. I guess I’m incapable of cringing and laughing at the same time…
I am really disturbed by this thread now. How could readers of PJ (which seem to be a relatively smart lot) degenerate into this sort of insanity which pervades the internet?
This “I like this and you don’t so you suck” mentality is pathetic. It’s a mosh-pit of intellectual destruction. Fan-boys engaging in p01ntl3$$ Fl^m3 w^r$ is the lowest form of communication ever devised. I won’t participate in this kind of interchange…wait, who shoved me?..*SHOVE* “Everyone know that the Stones were better than the Who…” *SHOVE* “Clapton Sucks!!!” *SHOVE*
Last comedienne that made me laugh was Paul Poundstone’s bit where her cat watches her take a shower. How about R. Pryor being over-rated? I mean f*** and the n-word always crack me up.
I agree with so much written in the article and comments. It is interesting to note how important comedy is to us today.
A great comedian today, IMO, is Tim Hawkins – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK2OakMoW_c
I never liked George Carlin or Lenny Bruce. The Smothers Brothers were musically talented, but not funny at all….never cared for the Beatles much either. As for Cheech and Chong…FEH! Nothing more than a bunch of no-talent potheads.
Disagree about Louis C.K. and George Carlin (who, btw, influenced Louis C.K.).
Guy Clark said … Hank Williams Said It Best
One man’s hawk is another man’s dove, one man’s hug is another man’s shove
One man’s rock is another man’s sand, one man’s fist is another man’s hand
One man’s tool is another man’s toy, one man grief is another man’s joy
One man’s squawk is another man’s sing, one man’s crutch is another man’s wing
One man’s pride is another man’s humble, one man’s step is another man’s stumble
One man’s pleasure is another man’s pain, one man’s loss is another man’s gain
One man’s can is another man’s grail, one man’s curse is another man’s sail
One man’s right is another man’s wrong, one man’s curse is another man’s song
Chorus
For every father’s daughter
For every mother’s son
The only thing the same
Is that it ain’t for everyone
Hank Williams said it best
He said it a long time ago
“Unless you have made no mistakes in your life
Be careful of stones that you throw”
One man’s deuce is another man’s ace, one man’s back is another man’s face
One man’s reason is another man’s rhyme, one man’s dollar is another man’s dime
One man’s tree is another man’s post, one man’s angel is another man’s ghost
One man’s rain is another man’s drought, one man’s hope is another man’s doubt
One man’s false is another man’s fair, one man’s toup is another man’s hair
One man’s hand is another man’s stub, one man’s feast is another man’s grub
One man’s dread is another man’s dream, one man’s sigh is another man’s scream
One man’s water is another man’s wine, one man’s daughter leave another man’s cryin’
Chorus
One man’s famine is another man’s feast, one man’s pet is another man’s beast
One man’s bat is another man’s ball, one man’s art is another man’s scrawl
One man’s friend is another man’s foe, one man’s Joesph is another man’s Joe
One man’s hammer is another man’s nail, one man’s freedom is another man’s jail
One man’s road is another man’s rut, one man’s if is another man’s but
One man’s treasure is another man’s trash, one man’s landin’ is another man’s crash
One man’s word is another man’s lie, one man’s dirt is another man’s sky
One man’s skin is another man’s color, one man’s killer is another man’s brother
Chorus
Larry the Cable Guy: The best at the current time. Carlin could not carry his sleeves. No wonder Jonah Goldberg chose Carlin to show the idiotic beliefs of libs regarding fascism to open “Liberal Fascism”.
So if someone doesn’t agree with your politics, they’re no good, is what it comes down to. That’s just sad. I’m a flaming liberal, but I can still enjoy Bruce Willis’ movies, Toby Keith’s music, and still get a laugh out of P.J. O’Rourke.
Pity you folks seem incapable of doing the same. I feel sorry for you.
You have to ignore a bunch of George Carlin, but just his contribution to exposing the ridiculousness of our use of language (particularly see his rant about airline announcements) makes up for everything else he said that made you roll your eyes.