Here’s a quick and dirty guess: Upper-middle-class families in blue states–those President Obama calls “the rich”–will soon be paying 20% more a year in state and federal taxes. If you pay $100,000 off
of a $300,000 income now, look for $120,000 in a couple of years.
Federal income taxes are going up, and deductions are going down. That much we know. What we don’t know yet–but I would bet money on it–is if the 7.65% Social Security and Medicare tax ceiling will be
lifted from $102,000 to $150,000 or so.
Taxes are headed up at the state and local level too. Residents in blue states like California and New York will be socked hardest.
Take California. Its top income tax rate is the nation’s highest at 9.3%. More appalling, it kicks in at only $47,056 a year. Make too much gold in the Golden State–a million a year–and you are pinched by a 1% surcharge. California also has a 7.25% sales tax, but that’s just a base.
Capital gains get no preference. They are taxed like ordinary income.
For all that, California spends more than it takes. The state is on the verge of bankruptcy and just passed a budget with $12 billion of new taxes.
The trend of higher taxes has not escaped California taxpayers. For each of the last five years, California has led the nation in the outflow of its residents to other states. Since 2004, California has lost about a million and a half people from taxpaying households. At the same time, the state has taken in two million people, mostly non- or minimal taxpayers who are newborns or immigrants, legal and illegal.
I focus on California because I live there. The same trend is at play in other high-tax, high-cost blue states such as Massachusetts, New York and New Jersey.
How will this play out? Well, consider:
1. Home prices are highest in the coastal blue states and remain that way despite the recent losses. In California, the percentage losses are uneven. Silicon Valley residential real estate is down only 15% to 20% from the peak–and less for those little sub-$2 million houses. I’m not kidding. A
modest three-bedroom, two-bathroom house of 2,500 square feet in Palo Alto still sells for $1.5 million to $2 million. The income it takes to buy such a house, which is a middle-class house by size and amenities, is what Obama and the tax collectors are now calling “rich.” Palo Alto may
be extreme in its home prices, but the same is true in all blue-state upper-middle-class suburbs. It takes a “rich” income (north of $250,000) to live a middle-class lifestyle if one is still raising children and paying a mortgage in these places.
2. Jumbo mortgage loans (more than $417,000 nationally and $625,000 in high-house-price counties) are often required to buy a house in urban blue states. Too bad for the blue-staters. Mortgage interest rates on jumbos are about 1.5% higher now than for regular conforming loans.
Oh, they will tax the rest of us to bail them out. We can expect a Federal bailout of CA and NY within a year or so.
More ominously, the conditions in the Blue states may soon obtain across the land. That is what they really want. The Red states are getting bluer all the time.
Where will we move then?
The only solution is to radically reduce the size and powers of government at every level. Seems like the people do not get this, or if they do, do not want it.
Wait until they find they have to work to 74 so some government worker can take his nice, fat government pension at 64, and retire on 2 or 3 times the income of the non0government worker. Of course then it will be too late to do anything about it.
Mongoose wrote: “The only solution is to radically reduce the size and powers of government at every level. Seems like the people do not get this, or if they do, do not want it.”
From your lips to God’s ears, Mongoose. I see it. You see it. Why can’t the liberals, whose states are collapsing in on them see it?
Don’t worry, we will feel their pain. We will see how much more of our hard earned money be confiscated to help our neighbors in California and New York.
Serves them right. They continue to vote for left wing and socialist politicians and then wonder what hit them. There is NO free lunch.
———————————
Who is John Galt?
Sadly, the latest migrants from “The Grapes Of Obama And The Democrat’s Wrath” carry their left-leaning votes with them. Perhaps this is an alien plot – make a state “blue” then move “blues” to red states achieving the effect causing the red states to go rotten as well.
Devious Democrats – always scheming.
Oh they see it alright. It’s part of the plan: Inflict the downward spiral and then sell the solution as more of the same, which deepens the spiral and accelerates the “fixes” until Presto! You wake up one day in a Socialist country.
Those people in the blue states have no clue what is comeing down the road!!!!
NONE they just want to help but they also want you to help, my thought is what happins when is starts to fall a part
What’s inevitable?
Death and taxes.
What we ned is more telecommuting, so people can live where they want and work where they want. It will completely undo the “high tax states” within a decade.
P.
I can’t read the article, because the commercial at the right margin covers up about a fourth of it.
Will Red China’s generals and politboro buy California at a massive discount? Will the Mexican cartel hire big lobbyists to fight marijuana legalization in CA? Interesting times.
I can’t read it either.
California is going under? Please, someone lash Nancy Pelosi to that sinking ship. Is that woman that anti-Christ or what?
Sorry about the margin overlap, folks. Does this reformatting fix it for you? — Mike Malone, editor-in-chief
Nope, formatting still no good. Can’t see the right side of anything. Ad covers text
Keep the hell out of Washington state! We have enough puking liberals here and, yes, they’ve tried many times to saddle us with income tax and a ton of feel-good welfare spending…just like California. These Californians have crapped in their own nest – they should be made to live in it.
I agree with Pzorkit. Washington state does not need anymore Californians.
Click on print, you can see the entire article.
This page is unreadable.
The real question is will midwest states be legally allowed to pass laws that ban ppl from CA from buying houses in their states…hehe.
LOL Always that for which Freepers hope . . . disaster, terrorist attacks, etc. All they want is the destruction of America so they can rule again. GOP = American Terrorists all.
vivo: and evidently your chinless, irrelevant and asinine comments as well.
you know, when you employer has to pay too much in taxes, he has to start firing people–assuming that you actually have a job of course.
The country is about to splinter. The final straw will be the stolen elections of 2010 and 2012. The west, south west and south will secede leaving a Socialist/Stalinist rump United States in the North East. Most of California will join Arizona or Nevada. The California coastal enclave may go its own way. The US will discover what the Roman citizens in the provinces discovered in the 5th century AD – that joining the “barbarians” would get rid of the oppressive Roman tax collector.
FYI for Editor – Looks like the “div#content” element is inside the “div#blog-container” in Internet Explorer 7 and is causing the overlapping. Firefox is OK.
I live in the very blue state of New Jersey and grew up in the blue state of Massachusetts. Both states are dominated politically by very liberal urban areas – surrounded by fairly conservative suburban belts, and very conservative rural areas. My Congressional Rep. – Scott Garrett is a staunch fiscal conservative I’m proud of. My Senators – not so much.
Anyhow, I agree with the article 100%. An income of $250k is just about comfortable here unless you have to commute to NYC and pay all those taxes too.
Pzorkit / Kaila – fight that state income tax. It was passed about 25 years ago to pay for schools and reduce property taxes. Urban politicians have managed to funnel all of it to the cities. The suburban districts see none of the money – as a result, we have the highest property taxes in the country and we pay 6.7% of our incomes to support corruption in the cities.
If you have trouble with the page formatting, in firefox you can hit the view button and select no page style. Works nicely, sometimes.
I have noticed lately in Virginia…the sane part, that is south of Fairfax County, in HUGE influx of New Jerey plates…Massachusetts plates, New York plates and Maine plates.
These people are LEAVING these areas, populating sand areas of the country and bringing their Liberal crappy ideas with them in the trunks of their cars.
Red becomes purple, becomes blue. Like me.
PLEASE STAY HOME!
Stupid Liberals voted time and time again for politicians who year in and year out raised their taxes, fees, and regulatory burdens at the same time increasing benefits to the unproductive. Sound familiar? All I ask for Blue Staters fleeing their Utopias is that they either become Conservatives, don’t vote, or stay home! Most of those damnable fools will flee and totally fail to do any questioning of how their Blue states got into such dismal shape. They more than likely will move to a healthy, inexpensive, business-friendly Red state and continue to vote for destructive Liberal candidates. Just look at North Carolina. Once a reliable, solid Red state it has become a magnet for high tech employers because of it’s friendly business climate. Businesses then attracted talent from depressed and expensive Blue states who continued to be ignorant, mindless, irresponsible Liberals.
So PLEASE, unless you’re capable of understanding why it is Blue states are in such a mess KEEP OUT!
I am one of the closet Republicans/Conservatives in San Francisco. I still love the state and I think that it is worth fighting for.
The GOP significant problem in CA is that they let themselves to be defined by the Democrats mostly as the evil anti-gay, anti-brown people. And yet, even where I work the most liberal of people hate the bailouts, tax increases and total governmental waste.
CA GOP and CA conservatives were never able to stick together and articulate clear economic message to take advantage of these feelings. Instead, we eat our own when they are not “conservative” enough (as defined by the local talk-show host). Lesson from Ronald Regan, that achieving 75% of your goals is a victory is utterly lost on these “conservative” activists. So, the purists stay home come the election, and sane message of responsible fiscal policy has no chance of wining. On top of that we are gerrymandered in such a way that the fix is in for the Democrats.
I don’t want to leave. I will stay and fight. Then again, where would I go? We are the template for Obama’s America. Where California leads, the nation follows. God help us all.
Here is the Pacific Research report ranking the 50 states based on economic freedom in 1999, 2004, and 2008. The authors show how some of the more statist states (Illinois, for example) had to increase freedoms in order to attenuate out-migration to freer neighboring states!
http://liberty.pacificresearch.org/docLib/20080909_Economic_Freedom_Index_2008.pdf
Since when is “middle class” defined as people who never have to worry about paying their bills? That would be the upper class, son. Middle class people work for a living, they take out substantial loans to buy a house, an automobile, and send a kid to college. They forgo many pleasures in life, such as a luxury summer vacation or dinner at expensive restaurants, so they can pay their bills. They live modestly and work until retirement age, hoping their care with finances will afford them a comfortable pension. But they do worry – when an emergency comes up, is there enough in the bank to take care of it? The family car is not a Lexus, it’s a modest sedan or stationwagon. Mom wears a carat diamond ring and a modest gold necklace while Dad has a decent hunting rifle and doesn’t get a new gun every year. He has a reloader so he can save money on bullets. Sure, these are stereotypes. Actually, they’re my parents. I remember many times having to “go without” because Mom said we had to save if we wanted to spend summer at my grandparent’s cottage. Rich people don’t have these day-to-day financial worries. I know this because lately, I’ve been feeling pretty rich. Business is good, my investments are solid, and I feel a strange peace of mind I never had when I was growing up in a middle class American household. I hang with a different crowd now and try to keep my head at least EVEN with the clouds… but the truth is, I’ve been modestly successful and my income puts me in the very upper middle class… which for most people, is not middle class anymore – it’s really the upper class.
On a related note, LA Times columnist Steve Lopez claims in his latest article that CA is actually the 16th highest taxed in the nation. He believes that the notion of CA as a taxland is a myth. True?
This situation is a win-win for the left. In the blue states themselves, they drive out the wealthy, who have a higher percentage of Republicans than there are among those remaining in the state, thus strenghtening already iron-clad Democratic power.
However, when they relocate, those same exiles have a higher percentage of Democrats than among the locals, plus northern independents are not as conservative as southern ones, thus strenghtening the Democrats in those red/purple states.
As for my state (also NJ), the voting populace is so blindly loyal to these Socialist thieves, that even if the state government took their homes, their cars, their jobs, and their bank accounts, (which they are well on their way to doing) leaving them homeless and naked, they would still stupidly vote for the Dems over the evil Republicans.
When I first moved to NH it was a red state. No taxes etc. Liberals moved from Mass to NH and now we are blue and taxes are coming. We are all in the same boat. And because of that the fact that water is leaking into the California and New York side means the rest of us will sink soon.
While I enjoy reading the comments of other Americans about how we, little people, living in the so called red states will feel the impact of the recent decisions of the progressives that are directing Congress to pass such devasting spending bills. I wonder how many of us are ready to do something about this suitation. I offer a few suggestions
1) repeal of the 16th amendment: I know this will cause all a tempest in a bottle to occur, but the power to levy taxes is the power of tyrants. congress for so long has gone into our pockets without justification, having me to send my tax money to new york city to pay for their welfare and social experiments. If the state of New York wishes to fund these types of programs then I suggest that all of the New Yorkers and any other states tax their own residents. Not me I do not live their or wish to live there. The founders of the country and the writers of the Consititution were smart they new that if congress was given the power to tax personal income that they would but votes with this power and set themselves up to become the new royality in America.
Damn guess that has already happened.
2) 17th amendment
We should repeal this this end run around the checks and blances of the orginal Consititution. Who wanted this amemdment? The new American royality. Plain and clear the tyrants wanted this so that they would be able to push thru Progressive bills. I guess Madison and Jefferson knew what would happen, that the house would become full of demigods and special intrests, do you think they wanted a Senator’s election left to the States and not the popular vote? They knew what was good for” US “in their time and in our time.
3. A Call for a new Consititutional Convention. Its time for us to settle all of the on going debates by amendments, abortion, term limits, ect. one stipulation, not one delegate to this convention should be a elected offical. All Elected officals including Congress would be barred from attendeding. HHHHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAH on pain of death.
I grew up in Fairfax County VA, and watched the nonstop pro-development policies turn it into an urbanized area.
(Jack Herrity never saw a bulldozer that he didn’t immediately fall in love with).
Very much a victim of its own success.
I also remember the Desert Cities,(Palm Desert, Cathedral City, Yucca Valley), of Pete Wilson’s California.
The folks there had moved up to the High Desert to get away from the taxes, crime and congestion of the LA Metro area, but they were slowly re-creating the very conditions that they had escaped from in the first place.
So seeing as how most Americans immigrated here from Europe, is it any surprise that we are becoming more like them?
The question that remains to be answered is from where were Europeans escaping from?
Because that’s where THEY are going to end up…and a little later on, us as well.
Maybe you could live in Washington State with no income taxes near the border with Oregon where you could do your shopping with no sales taxes.
Victoria,,
Not really sure what your point was with that, but there’s this little thing called “rising standard of living” that the US has been able to accomplish pretty well, although mobility has slowed, unfortunately, over the past two generations.
By the standards of your post, having indoor plumbing is some sort of luxury, I suppose.
The only instances in history where the kind of transformation that turning the rest of the country into CA would imply happened without a violent revolution was in post-WWII Europe. Of course, that scenario is unlike the US because Europe was starting from almost nothing after the destruction of the war. Therefore, expect violence if the Feds try to extend the wonders of CA politics to the rest of the country.
It couldn’t happen to more deserving people.The morally corruptliberal,(yet viciously greedy)progressive, government loving cretins inhabiting these hellholes,are finally getting what they deserve:public/personal fiscal ruin.Keep voting democrat you cretinous pukes!
#33″journalists”, like Steve Lopez,a talentless,obvious affirmative-action hire, is one of the reasons why the L.A.TIMES is moribund
The Cultural Revolution was directed against the most ardent Communists in China.
Nuf said.
#9(VIVO): Spoken like an unthinking tax paying pro-abusive government herd animal. Send a blue state your paycheck directly,why don’t you? What’s inevitable? Besibdes death and taxes? Your glib stupidity.
We left Massachusetts for Texas and never looked back. I make the same money, with no income tax, and a much lower overall cost of living. Any my car has stopped rusting because we don’t need to salt the roads here.
FICA and Medicare don’t cost 7.65%. They cost 15.3%, because the employers matches with money that of course is considered part of the loaded cost of retaining an employee. Even the guy who owns the corner deli knows this, but employees are still mostly fooled by the “matching” contribution fiction that FDR instituted.
ERIC&SAF: Things are not as bad as they seem. For one thing many blue state ecapees (like myself) intend to keep our red states red. For another,red staters outbreed,blue staters by a wide margin.Like all liberals, they are immature,worthless hedonists ,who have trouble dealing with basic human realities,such as having children. In any case, they have to work so long to pay for their self imposed taxes,drugs,and german cars, that there’s little energy left over for reproducing themselves.Finally, the economic crisis is hitting these upper middle class cretins much harder than normal people,and in a delicious irony, the Messiah they just elected will deal them a financial death blow by hitting them with even higher taxes,while their overpriced hovels, continue to lose value.Finally, none of these imbeciles are armed,and what is more, being degenerates are incapable of self defense.In the coming civil war,they’ll stand no chance.So buck up! Stay alert! Organize!
Thanks for the good article. We might consider relocating to Texas and leaving Illinois before the federal government turns it into the first “gray state”. The state will become the worlds largest prison and the new name can be Felinois. Most felons here work for the state gov, Unions, and Chicago mob, so not much relocation would be needed, just a huge fence and some helicopter patrols.
Illinois, where the Governors make the license plates!
Karlgaard is an idiot. Yes, blue states may suffer but since blue states subsidize redstates in terms of federal tax revenue, it’s the red states that will really be hit hard. States like Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee and Georgia will suffer more. Red states may actually have to survive without the blue states subsidizing them for a while. See? There’s always a silver lining to every dark cloud.
What are you people talking about? It’s blue states like New York and California that bail out the poor red ones. It’s always been that way, and probably always will be. Get a clue, folks. Blue states like New York and Massachusetts have better health care and better education than your red ones, and so our kids end up getting betters jobs than your do, make more money, only to see our hard earned money get taken away in taxes and handed off to you red state fools as welfare. That’s right, the odds are that if you live in a red state in the south, your state is living off northeastern blue state money. So please, don’t worry about us blue staters, we’ll be fine because we have valuable skills and understand the importance of investing in education and health care. You red staters ought worry about what the heck you’re all going to do when your elected leaders refuse the stimulus money and leave you all to fend for yourselves. Wait to see how long it takes for the 5 intelligent people left to high tail it out of there.
I live in Obama’s adopted home town of Chicago. Totally blue and sorta coastal (Lake Michigan). The sales tax (city and county) totals 10.25% and just about everything else is taxed on top of that sales tax rate: fast food, cell phones, wheel tax on vehicles, etc. etc. etc. On top of all the other taxes (income, property, vehicle registration) etc etc etc. The result: high crime, especially murder and drugs and gangs; a public school system that is an educational wasteland; a decling population…you know the rest. And, further, the city, county, and state are dealing with HUGE deficits. Time for me to move!
#41 is blue from holding his breath while typing a long, fabricated lie.
We need a 1,000,000 TAXPAYER MARCH ON DC(I know it’s a small number to liberals when they only understand trillions), .
We need to MARCH in March.
Who can help organize this?
We should be using these Blue states as poster children for liberalism. This will recruit millions to conservatism.
#43 calls me a liar but he offers no proof. Follow the link below and you’ll see for yourself.
http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm
#41. If Blue is “cool”, how many foreign auto companies located in your states over the last 15 years? How many “undocumented foreigners” located in your states over the last 15 years?
Both groups recognize a good thing when they see it. Obviously, they have different criteria. Their effect on your beloved B-states is also different, and it ain’t good.
The problem is that when the displaced blue-staters move to “more congenial” locations they bring their stupid voting patterns with them — the connection between one-party (Democrat) rule and the downhill slide off into the abyss of their former location seems totally beyond their ability to grasp the obvious.
So Steve, why then are these blue states bankrupt and have the highest unemployment rates in the country?
The blue state coalition consists of a small number of parasitic elites like Hollywood, the ivory tower, urban “sophisticates” and a whole lot of urban poor. Blue states are blue not because of the former but because of the latter. The only thing that grows with blue state policies is the poverty level.
The Democrats know what they are doing. Their interim goal is a 10% unemployment rate to generate enough poverty to insure that they are relected to congressional majority in 2010 and the White House in 2012. After that they will drive the unemployment rate up to the 20% New Deal levels that will keep the Democrats in power forever.
Yes, there needs to be a massive Washington Tea Party.
It needs to be twice as big as the crowd for the inauguration.
There seems to be a lot of concern here that those dastardly blue states will steal the hard-earned wealth of the red states. But check out this list of how much each state receives from the federal government for each dollar it contributes in taxes:
New Mexico $2.03
Mississippi $2.02
Alaska $1.84
Louisiana $1.78
West Virginia $1.76
North Dakota $1.68
Alabama $1.66
South Dakota $1.53
Kentucky $1.51
Virginia $1.51
Montana $1.47
Hawaii $1.44
Maine $1.41
Arkansas $1.41
Oklahoma $1.36
South Carolina $1.35
Missouri $1.32
Maryland $1.30
Tennessee $1.27
Idaho $1.21
Arizona $1.19
Kansas $1.12
Wyoming $1.11
Iowa $1.10
Nebraska $1.10
Vermont $1.08
North Carolina $1.08
Pennsylvania $1.07
Utah $1.07 29
Indiana $1.05
Ohio $1.05
Georgia $1.01
Rhode Island $1.00
Florida $0.97
Texas $0.94
Oregon $0.93
Michigan $0.92
Washington $0.88
Wisconsin $0.86
Massachusetts $0.82
Colorado $0.81
New York $0.79
California $0.78
Delaware $0.77
Illinois $0.75
Minnesota $0.72
New Hampshire $0.71
Connecticut $0.69
Nevada $0.65
New Jersey $0.61
Looks like the BLUE states have been subsidizing the RED states.
Excellent post, Rich.
I was just complaining on an FT blog that “wealthy” is being bandied about (ahem) liberally these days. Wealth is possession of assets. Making 250K is simply being a high-earner. And a wage slave at any level is still just a wage slave, as my Marx-spouting anthropology prof used to say.
Highly paid wage slaves are learning how expendable they are these days, which makes the attempts by Obama and Blue state governors to balance their budgets on our backs pretty laughable. A lot of us are losing our jobs and retirement savings–foreclosures on a large scale are just around the corner.
Funny you should mention Texas–my husband and I were just talking about relocating from IL there once we lose our house here. You’re onto something.
Here’s the source:
http://scatter.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/red-state-blue-state-welfare-state-subsidizing-state/
#41 Steve P.
Get a clue. Your blue states are bleeding population out and, especially in the cases of NY and CA, are on the verge of bankruptcy. They won’t even have a chance of turning around until they get a red-state mentality. And quit looking down your nose at our red-state education and health systems. They’re pretty good.
Steve P,
You red staters ought worry about what the heck you’re all going to do when your elected leaders refuse the stimulus money and leave you all to fend for yourselves. Wait to see how long it takes for the 5 intelligent people left to high tail it out of there.
Internal migration patterns over the last 30 years show people voting with their feet and moving from blue states to red state. You brag about you superior lives and government services but people don’t leave vibrant communities full of opportunities and benefits to move to less vibrant communities. They leave dying places and move to growing places. The blue states can no longer provide a superior standard of living for the middle-class so they move to place where they have a future.
I think it ironic that a blue state advocate would complain about redistributionist federal taxes when it is the blue states that overwhelming support such tax policies at the federal level. If you argument is true, then it is a self-inflicted injury. Perhaps you might consider advocating policies restricting federal government redistribution. However, I suspect your to “intelligent” and “altruistic” to “selfishly” keep all your hard earned money to yourselves.
Pzorkit #17, very encouraging to read posts like yours, but like Cali the western part is conservative. But like you, DO NOT move to Texas unless you change your voting habits, and bring a profitable business that creates jobs. They leave, but remain too stupid to understand that their voting liberal habits created the mess and once 50% of the voters are rewarded for failure it is too late.
there is a major problem with this scenario: Take NH as a test case.
All those MA people fleeing MA did not learn their lesson, they voted in Dems so now the reason why they left in the first place will be repeated in NH.
Just goes to show, Dems are by definition, insane. Repeating the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome.
Vig,
How many foreign car companies located in my state? What’s your point? Most of the new car plants are indeed in the south but guess why? Here’s a hint. It’s the same reason GM and Ford build the majority of their cars in Mexico. Cheap labor. It’s also the same reason most of the big chicken processing jobs are located down south. These companies are taking advantage of an under-educated, desperately depressed labor pool. Why do you think the best paying jobs are located in blue states? Because most top earning high performers choose not to live next to chicken processing plants.
In terms of undocumented workers, they can be found all over the country but they are concentrated in states that border Mexico. Even your limited red state education system should have given you enough to figure out why.
I find myself thinking of Cromwell lately.
I live in the very blue state of Massachusetts. I partially agree with Richard’s thesis, partially disagree. I agree with the part that there is a large wealth transfer from the blue to the red states as a result of the higher cost of living and consequential higher marginal income tax rates in blue states. Thus, BO’s tax increases will fall disproportionately on blue states.
However, blue states are not irrational to insist on expansion of the federal government. Because of collapsing birth rates and out migration, blue states are graying fast. I would not be surprised if MA residents received more in social security and medicare payments than we pay in FICA taxes. With fewer income earners, we won’t have the resources to fund our social programs or pensions. Therefore, the blue states would want these functions federalized so that our benefits are funded by residents of the still vital parts of the United States.
As they say, as Maine goes, so goes the nation. Outside of the Portland area, Maine is already a welfare state, dependent on transfer payments. It also has the highest median age of any state in the nation.
Jerryofva writes,
“why then are these blue states bankrupt and have the highest unemployment rates in the country?”
Below is the chart that lists unemployment number state by state. The biggest number in Michigan which is a swing state. The rest of the list is mix bag. Unemployment numbers are up in every state for this first time since the great depression. This is the legacy of failed federal oversight of the economy over the last eight years of Republican rule. The difference is that once the economy begins to recover, blue states will rebound faster than red states. Having a job for $10/hr at the local pig processing plant is the best job available to many a red state resident. Us blue staters have many more options.
http://data.bls.gov/map/servlet/map.servlet.MapToolServlet?survey=la
I travel to the Dallas and Houston metro areas frequently on business. There are neighborhoods in each area that are every bit as hip as any in Boston. Plus, you can get a steak dinner for under $10. Love it!
The GOP in California has pigeonholed itself as the anti-abortion party.
It’s been a litmus test for a party nomination for statewide office but pretty much guarantees a loss in the general election. Sch-whatever got in because the recall process short-circuited the primaries.
He’s a climate fraudster and, since falling flat in his big ballot-initiative push (he tried to grab the ring all at once, when he should have focused on one adversary at a time – take out the public employees’ unions first) he’s pretty much caved to the unions and Dems.
We’ll see what the next gubernatorial election brings.
“From your lips to God’s ears, Mongoose. I see it. You see it. Why can’t the liberals, whose states are collapsing in on them see it?”
Do you understand that 9 of the top 10 states receiving more federal finances than contributing are red states?
Seriously… how can you post this stuff without doing some homework? It’s bizarre.
Two points:
1, when these Californicans leave, they take their voting habits with them. That’s why Colorado went for 0bama. So they have a habit of ruining the places that they live in, and upon ruination, move on. You see the same thing in New Hampshire, with all of the recent immigrants from Vermont.
2, Washington does indeed, by constitution, have no income tax. But it’s still run by a single-party system, and many other squirrely taxes, such as the “B&O” and inventory taxes make it a poor place to do business, and an extremely bad place to start one. Washington would be on the bottom of my list of states in which to try to start a new business.
If I were investing in real estate, I would look at Washington state (no state income taxes but a vibrant economy and educated populace), both around Seattle and Tacoma and in the east around Spokane
This resident of Washington State, who is trapped in Seattle under the thumb of the hopelessly leftist/statist governments of Seattle and King County, says you should think twice before making such laughable recommendations.
We have an antidemocratic mass transit entity (meaning voters never directly elect its Lord and Lady Board members), which is bleeding us dry to install an obscenely expensive light rail system which goes only from A to B and forces the rest of the vast commuting network to pay for it.
Topping that, we have the antidemocratic Growth Management Act, which forbids the free exchange of real estate between consenting adults. It has spectacularly distorted the real estate market, forcing urban prices sky-high. That has been exacerbated by the CRA/Fannie/Freddie boom, and there is no such thing as ‘affordable housing’ inside its Urban Growth Areas – unless you’re one of the beneficiaries of ACORN’s proffered gummit teats spouting other people’s money to benefit your lifestyle.
There is more reasonable real estate in eastern Washington. Of course, there isn’t much of an economy there either, so you’d better be independently wealthy or a celebrity whose income doesn’t depend on working in your home county. Or maybe a newly-rich Chicago crony wallowing in the Obama McDuck money bin.
Rather than letting the Blue states suffer for a long time we could send all the illegal aliens to those states since Obanbi won’t actually deport them and their families. Those states would be getting a good dose of what they voted for. I would gladly sponser a few bus tickets to the nearest Liberal Paradise.
jerryinva,
“The only thing that grows with blue state policies is the poverty level.”
The states with the highest levels of people living below the poverty line are all southern states. Mississippi leads the way.
Death and Taxes 2009
Anyone can look at the above chart and know that Steve P is full of crap. Which federal departments represent wealth transfers? Education ($60bn), Transportation ($63bn), Health and Human Services ($68bn), Agriculture ($20bn), and Housing and Urban Development ($38bn). Where does he think that money goes? You could argue that all of agriculture and some transportation dollars and some education dollars go to suburban and rural areas – usually controlled by republicans. However, the overwhelming majority of social and transportation spending is going into urban areas – controlled by democrats for the last 40 years.
Steve P: nice try,Stevie,there’s already a blog specializing in political lies It’s called Daily Kos.
These refugees from the Blue States are locusts. They consumed their Blue State homes with their liberalism and now they bring their liberal ways and ideas to the Red States.
Just a note on the article: There is currently no income limit on the Medicare tax unlike Social Security which taps out somewhere around $105,000 or $106,000.
I personally believe they’ll just lift the income limit on Social Security entirely. That would mean that if you make $250,000 a year — you’ll see a pretty substantial increase in your payroll taxes.
Stevie: It was blue state Ivy leaguers, who destroyed the banking system,made NYC the welfare capital of the US, and have deindustrialized and impoverished their states by taxing businedsses to death.REAL SMART!
Liberals are like locusts: they move in swarms, consume every available resource, and move on – leaving behind a vast expanse of destruction.
Born and raised in California, I love my home state, hate the politics and the stupidity of the voters. So much wrong here that the best thing we can do is go bankrupt, fire everybody, and start all over again. Many of our politicians should be tried for treason.
deguello,
If I recall, Bush went to an Ivy League school. So did Phil Gramm. I guess that proves your point. Those two Ivy leaguers did indeed ruin the banking system.
Also, on a per-capita basis, the south has a larger percentage of it’s population on government assistance than NY does. I know, facts have a proven liberal bias.
About Washington…(Self-hating Boomer is spot on)…
You are very wrong in your summation of Washington. You want to work in Aerospace? Boeing is leaving. You want to work in IT? You have as much of a chance moving here and starting an IT company that works for Microsoft as I do moving to LA and getting my screenplay published. Microsoft Vendor licenses are like mining claims 150 years ago. Agriculture? Sorry, even if you don’t consider yourself too good for the work, there’s not much opportunity.
Washington State B&O is a horrible tax on Gross Profits. That’s fine for IT, but that’s about it. You gross 5M and pay 4.25 in Expenses? Pay taxes on 5M. You gross 5M and pay 1M in expenses (like IT shops can where the only real cost after startup is labor)? You pay tax on 5M.
There is only one big problem with the exodus from the blue states as they fail: The refugees bring their politics with them and they do not make the connection between what they vote for and why they are leaving the blue.
Then they move to a healthy red state and start to vote it towards blue once again.
Islam is the answer.
Renounce your false religions and your man-made laws and government. Embrace Islam now and live in peace in submission to the will of Almighty Allah (swt).
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar!
Katherine and mrkwong who live in California:
I “hear you” when you talk about GOP being too conservative on the social issues. I was very frustrated in 1990 when NJ elected the spend/tax liberal Florio because his GOP opponent was antiabortion. (Eric R: amen, brother, about my former state). But since that time most of the blue state Republicans, at least in the northeast, have been pro-choice and they still lose! And the remaining Republicans in the northeast, such as Specter, Maine sisters, are absolutely not fiscally conservative. Arnold is a perfect example of what Katherine would like, and look how that turned out. Where are these pro-choice fiscally conservative Republicans? I don’t know of any.
Blue state people: please disregard what Kaarlgard has to say about Austin and Dallas. Do not move there! It is very hot, there is no water (in Austin), it’s ugly, and there are a lot of gun-loving pissed-off Texans who will be very rude to you if they suspect you voted for Obama.
No worries. I expect the Blue City-States will be WMDed before they go bankrupt.
The Gop is minor leagueand can only improve their chances by adopting the visious infighting that the Donkeys excel in.Go after Pelosi/Reid and the tax cheating cabinet members,the corrupt congressmenThe sly lying BO and his own devil`s brood.But I guess that won`t happen while they still call the Donkey congressmen distinguished,honorable and friends.What a bunch of pusillanimous shit
California, New York and many of the Blue States are apt examples of the “Prodigal Son” they will not change their spendthrift ways until they are face down in the mud of the pig sty. They want more of the inheritance to keep spending we are more the fools if we give it to them. Apparently they have not reached this point of repentance yet. So until they do, the best thing we can do for them is not bail them out and let them suffer the consequences of their decision making.
My mother was raised in a house of ~950 sq. ft., and I was raised in 1200 sq. ft. I raised my four in 1450 sq. ft.
And now a 2500 sq. ft. house is considered modest. Only to a developer.
My guess is that the Dem states are going to run into even MORE massive problems sooner, rather than later.
The impetus is going to be public employee pay and benefits. With the stock market down so much the ONLY way for them to come up with money to feed the ever growing appetite of the public employee unions is to massively increase taxes on the private sector. The power of these pigs has become so pervasive in blue states that all pols, even conservative Republicans, are terrified of them.
Did you read about ANY givebacks by California public employees in their latest budget go round? Nope! Did California lay off? Nope! In New York, where I live, anything to do with public employee givebacks are off the table. I haven’t read about any public employee wage or benefit reductions, or layoffs in any of the troubled blue states.
The wage/benefit/retirement packages for public employees in blue states are much higher than even the UAW package. How’s that worked out for the auto companies? Before the UAW disaster we had the steel workers wage/benefit/retirement package. Now all the big steel companies are basically history.
The history of EVERY large private sector union has been to ruin their industry and eventually put their members out of work. I suspect that something similar will befall the blue states, equalling something like localized depressions.
PS – here’s something most people don’t know. In 1970 the population of New York City (about as blue as you can get) was 8 million. Then decline started. It just recently got back to 8 million BUT, one-half of the population is either immigrant or child of an immigrant. Without that, the population of NYC would be about 4 million. In other words, half the NYC population simply chose to leave.
A factor you miss is that many of us return or stay for the sheer physical beauty of California, not that we approve of the politics. That’s not a boast, as we Americans are blessed to live in a varied and staggeringly gorgeous country. This poor beleaguered spot is simply the one I prefer. I’ve lived in many places and countries over the years, but return here like a Capistrano Swallow. The moonbats can’t tax a sunset over the bay. Not yet, but I’m sure they are working on a property “view” surcharge.
As a native San Franciscan who abandoned the City fifteen years ago, each time I return my heart aches where it once sang with joy to live in such a place. We grew weary of having our cars broken into, being accosted by panhandlers and stepping over human waste, but we persevered until City Hall taxed our business almost out of existence. While home prices, parking and gridlocked freeway access made recruiting talented employees difficult. The business revenue short fall wasn’t helped by the dot com bust. Still City Hall taxed and regulated business as if there was no tomorrow.
Please do not bail us out! California must be allowed to go bankrupt to rid itself of the burden of unsustainable obligations larded on by unions and both parties.
Conservative and moderate Californians have been gerrymandered into oblivion. Pay attention folks, this is what is afoot now with the DC vote and the Census. If you live in a marginally red city, county or state, you will be assimilated by the Blue Borg.
The liberal machine works slowly but relentlessly, focusing on local politics, that is how they work their way into power, school boards and city councils. While voters are organizing around the big sexy issues and candidates in general elections your state is being quietly assimilated right under your nose; then one day you wake up in a purple state wondering how it happened.
Make no mistake they are coming for you next.
Company I do consultant work for East of Sacramento California has informed me today that they are going to be closing down their business and moving it to Franklin, TN – They cannot compete in CA due to all the red tape – Workman’s comp is $25,000 for a Fork-lift operator in CA, less than $500 in TN and it goes on and on – 127 more jobs leaving CA and the current employees dont know it yet. Some will be offered their jobs if they move, my guess is that they will -
Native Californian here too, and I hate what the liberal infestation has done to my state. We need to fumigate SF and LA and start over.
No, she’s the anti-Einstein.
As several others have suggested, there’s an arrogance about the residents of the old coastal urban areas that holds that flyover needs them more than they need flyover. This is exactly backward. Once upon a time, manufacturing and agricultural enterprises needed corporate headquarters near the financial infrastructure. That day is long gone. With telecommunication technology, you can have your HQ anywhere.
OTOH, try to grow crops and harvest timber and pump oil in Manhattan. The simple fact of life is that urban populations need flyover country for the most basic of necessities. And that’s no longer just raw materials; less and less manufacturing is done in urban areas. They can go south, and out in the backwoods where costs are much lower.
Cities are obsolete. At this point in history, they only exist because a certain number of people want to live there. Functionally, they’re unnecessary, and rather expensive.
This isn’t like before the Civil War, when it was the South’s cotton against the North’s industrial infrastructure. While nobody was paying attention, the industrial infrastructure picked up and moved south of the Mason-Dixon line. And generally out in the boonies.
There are three types of liberal voters. 99% of everyone who votes liberal falls into one of these categories. Defense against each type differs.
First there are the bought-and-paid-fors. Government union workers, welfare recipients, lawyers, community activists, diversity hucksters – those who depend on high levels of taxes and regulation for their living. They vote liberal out of economic interest. This is the growing parasite class and they are being bribed with our money. To stop them from voting liberal you need to change their source of livelihood. So if you want to protect yourself against this type of liberal voter migrating out of blue states, don’t allow their industries to expand in your state. Put a hard cap on the number of government employees in your state, and don’t outsource government work either as the contractors get sucked into the parasite class even if they’re private companies. Don’t let your congressional reps local federal agencies (which will bring government union workers) in your state. Bust service-sector unions (SEUI) and make your courts unfriendly to trial lawyers.
The second category of liberal voters are the waifs. The old saying is that a conservative is a liberal who got mugged. These are the people who haven’t been mugged yet, but they are in for a doozy of a mugging with Obama, and their migration from blue states will be one reaction they have to that mugging. They key thing is to make sure as many of these folks as possible understand who mugged them and why. The Obama plan is two-fold: use liberal control of mass communication to convince these people it was Bush and the Republicans who mugged them, and also to convert as many as possible into bought-and-paid-fors by expanding the parasite class. Counter-communicate. Make enough noise to get through the liberal disinformation campaign and expose Obama, Dodd, et al as the con men that they are. But also propose workable solutions. Be positive about the chances to fix things, but make it clear the first step to fixing anything is walking away from the con game.
The third group of liberal voters are the single-issue scaredy-cats. Some issue, usually a social one like abortion, immigration, or gay marriage, so dominates their thinking that they vote against every other interest they have to protect that one issue. Democrats use this fear very cunningly. They bait traps for conservatives to keep these issues in the news and use the conservative reaction to keep the scaredy-cats scared and voting blue. Katherine in #30 above mentioned this strategy, and it’s been very effective for liberals. It gained Obama between 10 and 30 million votes this last election, and it has allowed Democrats to dominate California politics for a generation – long enough to send what had been a vibrant economic powerhouse into the ditch. These fear tactics have allowed Democrats to dominate CA politics even while engaged in a protracted economic destruction of the state. That’s how powerful this fear is. It’s a hard message for conservatives to hear, but this is the most important one of all. Liberals have successfully built a rather large constituency of deviants and because of that any attempts to use government authority to roll back the tide of deviancy is doomed to electoral failure for a generation at least. Attempting to fix social problems through government action is a socialist idea anyway, and we were always doomed to lose so long as we choose to fight on that battlefield. We need to shift the fight for social values away from government action to other battlefields more conducive to conservative victories. Part of that fight needs to be electing people who will shrink the size of government and defund the deviancy factories created by the liberals. Taking the fear out of the scaredy-cats is an important step in that direction.
If so-called blue states go bankrupt, states of some unnamed other color will be taxed to support them. I wonder which.
To All Californians Looking to Escape to Texas:
Please don’t. We don’t want you. You and your liberal, anti-freedom, anti-liberty, anti-gun, and related attitudes are what have sunk California and turned it into a hellhole.
We don’t want to take the risk you’ve learned your lesson.
Stay out of Texas, please.
Thanks,
A Texan
Bill, I was born and raised in NJ.
Still there…
I share the same feelings you do for your California..
Term Limits would go a long way toward helping fix these messes…
There is something missing in this article: it gives the impression (without saying so) that “blue” policies are the cause of high house prices + high cost of living, when in all likelihood it’s the other way around. Specifically, economic success brings high house prices; then high house prices bring socialist policies, low marriage rates, and low birth rates (Steve Sailer has written several articles about this); finally, socialist policies bring economic decline. It happened to the Rust Belt and the North-East; then it happened to California; and it will happen to other States; but maybe some blue states will return to sanity by then.
As for Steve P (#41), even granting that he is right all around (and he probably isn’t), so what? aren’t blue staters stupid for voting to subsidize red states? aren’t blue staters irresponsible if they have better health care — and still end up with a lower life expectancy?
#85 N.Y. Nick: .What would a suposedly high quality NE Ivy League school be doing accepting Bush? Neither Gramm nor Bush, Nickie boy ,destroyed the Banking system; it was liberal New England demagogues such as Barney (the banking queen) Frank,and Chris(Castro Lickspittle)Dodd,aided by Robert Rubin, Bernanke,and Paulson: all Ivy league liberal, plutocratic Northeastern trash. Nice try rewriting history with your “liberal” facts .If indeed, the South has more welfare cases than the NE,not to worry, they’ll eventually head over by you where they’ll live off your taxes,and make you feel compassionate,even as they destroy your quality of life.
NY Nick:
The economic decline in California, New York, Michigan (which is a blue state) and New Jersey began when the economy was booming. The fundamentals are still bad and they will not recover from this recession. Business is moving out of these states at record rates. They have no industrial base left.
You think in terms of transfer payments. Much of the federal spending in red states is productive expenditure on things like resource management, national security operations and procurement. A majority of spending in blue states are transfer payments from the productive to the non productive sectors.
“You red staters ought worry about what the heck you’re all going to do when your elected leaders refuse the stimulus money and leave you all to fend for yourselves. ”
Fending for ourselves is what we are all about. We don’t need, we don’t want, and we don’t demand that someone else provide for us, because we do for ourselves.
#98 Self Hating Boomer: Cities obsolete? hardly. They are convenient and necessary dumping ground,where the rest of the country sends its village idiots(like NY NICK above),criminals: both white collar and low class, welfare dependent scum,and marxist sympathizers;in fact If I could I’d concentrate this garbage in Manhattan,rename it welfare world,,build a wall around it,tax everyone at 100%,and have Jessie Jackson,The Disney organization,and the UN run it as a sort of liberal theme park.
Unfortunately, the blue staters moving here bring their terrible politics. Colorado, Montana etc etc are purple now when they were consistently red. Hoping for the mugging by reality to hit them any moment now. I am afraid we may have to wait a while.
Houston, TX
#105JERRYOFVA: Nick thinks that way, because he’s probably been on welfare himself for most of his life,and as a special needs child(mental retardation,pathological lying),needs all the social services he can leech from the stupid liberal taxpayers in NYC.
What is the thought process for Republicans? You guys spent eight years propping up an administration so secretive, incompetent and corrupt that even Rush Limbaugh gave up on them at the end. The last eight years of Republican misrule virtually guaranteed a national swing in the opposite direction. Nobody in the Democratic Party did half as much to elect Obama as George W Bush did. His incompetence, enabled by the fools who populate the rank and file of the Republican party, is the reason there are virtually no Republican national leaders with any standing right now. Obama may be an empty suit but the nation voted in droves for him because the alternative another Republican. Now, rather than doing a little soul searching and fixing the problem, you guys lash out at anything and and anyone who points out how utterly devoid of ideas and leadership your side is. I was a Hillary supporter. I think Obama is all hat and no cattle but at least he’s willing see the problems and try to solve them. Republicans could care less about solving problems. You guys are only concerned with scoring points. Everything, and I mean everything you do and say is filtered through your redstate/bluestate prism. California and NY are enemies in your eyes every bit as much as the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Poverty? Health care? Education? These things aren’t problems to solve but issues to be explioted. You don’t notice or even care to notice that these issues are more of a problem in your red states than they are in my blue state. Solving long term problems just doesn’t enter your thought process. What matters is beating the enemy. The enemy is whoever Rush Limbaugh or Seah Hannity says it is. this strategy worked for a while when the media decided they wanted to have a beer with George Bush. It’s not likely to work again anytime soon.
deguello,
Re: your #109 comment.
Pathological lying? Okay genius living in a trailer next to a pig farm with more kids than original teeth, please point out a lie. Redstates don’t take more from the federal government than they put in? Redstates aren’t less educated? Redstates don’t attract industries primarily because of their cheap labor? I’m willing to be you that I have a higher level of education than anyone in your trailer park.
The blue state posters who are so wonderfully smart and successful and rich should have no problems letting the red state secede and form their own country. Heck, the blue staters should consider this a favor, based on everything they’ve posted above.
Then we all could see where industry would be more successful. People could vote with their feet to those areas where they would be happier, more free, and more prosperous.
I don’t believe we can stop socialization at this point, for as JMH points out Obama is expanding all three categories of government dependency, aka self-interested voters.
Unless the populace openly revolts in large enough numbers to instill the Dem Congress with fear of ouster in 2010; and given the Libs ideological lock on the MSM, that may be wishful thinking.
However one can never predict what Americans will do when push comes to shove, which has always been one of our strengths.
Otherwise, welcome to EUAmerica.
NY Nick:
The people hardly voted for Obama in droves. He got 52% of the vote. Is Bush incompetent? You tell me who stopped all attempts at reforming Fannie and Freddie? If Bush is so stupid why did Obama take over and continue the Bush national security policies in Iraq, Afghanistan and the GWOT?
What is middle class? It’s freedom form some ordinary worries. If you need new tires for the car, you just buy them. If the washing machine conks out and can’t be fixed, you buy a new one. You can always make one car payment. You can put $100 a month into a 529 Plan. This is not driving a Lexus, or a vacation condo, or a coutry club. Its just a moderate level of comfort.
Steve P. – please stay wherever you are.
Property in California and New York have been overpriced for a very long time. I wonder why the normal Americans would pay those prices. If they did not, the prices would go down, so the residents have only themselves to blame, and now the Chinese are buying up the properties from the fore-closures. Then the people from these states pay taxes to accommodate the needs of the illegal immigrants, so the good must now suffer for the bad. You have to have spine and stand up for right. A country that accepts everything stands for nothing
Time will tell nick……
jerryofva,
I’m sorry. You’re right. Republicans did great in the last election. GWB was very popular when he left office because the country was doing so well under his leadership. We aren’t pulling any troops out of Iraq or sending more to Afghanistan. I have no words. Arguing with idiots is a waste of time. Good luck to you all. You’ll need it.
“Keep the hell out of Washington state!”
….unless you are a conservative, libertarian, or a classic liberal. We need more of them around here. Live in Vancouver, WA across the river from Portland, OR and pay no income tax, shop in Oregon and pay no sales tax.
Come on freedom valuing small govt types, move to Vancouver, WA! We need a new congressman in this district that Bush carried in 2004.
Nick:
Sticks in your craw doesn’t it? The Obama timetable is the Bush timetable. The leave behinds are Bush’s leave behinds. The Afghan surge was planned in 2008 and is not an Obama innovation. Your right arguing with an idiot like you is a waste of time.
Oh I forgot, Obama just adopted another stupid Bush policy. He has pulled the US out of the Durban II UN Jew hating festival.
“Yes, blue states may suffer but since blue states subsidize redstates in terms of federal tax revenue, it’s the red states that will really be hit hard. States like Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee and Georgia will suffer more.”
I dare you lefties to become small govt. minded at the federal level and return power to the states.
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Nikita Khrushchev also made a similar statement.
Those grandchildren are now in power and advancing a socialist agenda.
ny nick, i don’t understand why you’re so frantic. according to you, you’re on top of the world –got DC in tow, and with such great services the future is all yours. yet you seem worried. why is that?
Got to you Nickie! and exposed your venomous hatred of Southern white people.I haven’t known the kind of troglodytes you describe,since I moved out of NYC and stopped riding the subways .NY City where taxes and real estate prices,make people wish they could afford a trailerpark,and where it’s considered sophisticated, to mutilate your body with piercings,call a painting of the virgin mary festooned with turds “art”, and let Al Sharpton racially bait and attack Asians.As for your facts;I’ll check them; although they sound like classic liberal canards, Don’t confuse cheap labor with sustainable wages:look what’s happened to Detroit;and don’t forget the NE’s contribution to the economic rape and devastation of the South during the Civil War remember Sheman’s march to the Sea? It served as a harbinger for nazi methods of warfare.Finally, Nickie boy,are you aware that you can go to an Ivy league NE school major in English,and not have to take a single Shakespeare course course? So much for your Blue state education!The NE is a fraud!
This sounds like what happened to New Hampshire demographics and politics changing because of refugees from Massachusetts. These people don’t learn and will continue the same voting habits that led to the downfall of their own states.
Depressing.
jerryofva:,
First off all, I’ve said before I’m hardly an Obama supporter. I think he’s an empty suit. That said, Obama’s plan was plain for everyone see almost a year ago. That timetable was adopted by both Bush and Maliki. Bush adopted Obama’s plan every bit as much as the other way around.
About Afghanistan, Bush did not announce any susbstantial increase in troop levels when he was president. Please show me some evidence to the contrary. Absent that, you’re nothing but a liar who is so blinded by your ideology that you cannot see the truth about your hero. Trust me on this, Bush didn’t get that 22% approval rating for nothing. He earned it.
About Durban II, some ideas are so universally bad that even you and I can find agreement.
ny nick sez Okay genius living in a trailer next to a pig farm with more kids than original teeth, please point out a lie. Redstates don’t take more from the federal government than they put in? Redstates aren’t less educated? Redstates don’t attract industries primarily because of their cheap labor? I’m willing to be you that I have a higher level of education than anyone in your trailer park. –and then wonders why he has that sinking feeling that people are starting to actually hate this parasite/ingrate sort of master of a made-up universe.
I’d say us non-income-tax state types are heavily subsidizing the likes of ‘nynick’ (what IS your thought process, dude) who get to deduct their state&local income taxes on their 1040s.
Speaking of 1040s, I will give Pres. Obama props for his ingenious deficit reduction plan — nominate wealthy Democrats to Cabinet Positions, expose them as Tax Evaders, and force them to write a check or go to jail.
Red-state/blue-state prism? I do believe it was the blue-staters who said ‘Secede’ and ‘I’m moving to France’ after ’00′ and ‘F*ck Middle America’ after the ’04 Election and ‘We Support the Troops when They Frag their Officers’ in their myriad peace marches. Now they’re all “5248, Let’s work Together”. Sure we will.
Refusing the stimulus money will save the Red States from having to shoulder the unfunded mandates when Pres. Obama’s stimulus money runs out in 2-3 years. Unless the plan all along was to burden the Red States with crushing mandates (ala’ Cali’s public employee pensions). Sorry if you blue-staters are a bunch of suckers falling for empty promises from an empty suit.
103,
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. Expensive housing is determined by one thing: supply and demand. A lot of money in the local economy influences this, but other things do as well, such as a city where much of the land within a commuting radius is under water (NYC, San Fran, Seattle), and “growth management”, which reduces the amount of housing in an area, and drives the prices up. On top of that, you have rent control and public housing making sure that the middle class has to compete with people who otherwise couldn’t afford to live there, driving costs up even higher.
Then when the local industry gets soft, the people with the ability to make money head for the hills, and the arrogant local leaders wonder what hit them.
Slowly, we’re going to learn how do do just about every white collar function from Bumpwhistle, Mt. When that happens, a tipping point will be reached, and the cities will get sucked into a [censored] hole. Detroit’s pretty close to that tipping point now.
What part of the media wanted to have a beer with George Bush?–he doesn’t drink btw. The media dumped on him for 7 or more years. It’s hard to believe the media love affair with Obama. The main reason that so-called red states receive more federal dollars is because of military bases being located there. Whose fault is that? National defense is a legitimate constitutional federal expense but most blue states have tried to drive the military out. Does MA have any Jr. ROTC units in their high schools?
BJM @ #123; re the Reds, here’s a guy who specializes in debriefing former USSR officials.
deguello writes:
“Don’t confuse cheap labor with sustainable wages:look what’s happened to Detroit;and don’t forget the NE’s contribution to the economic rape and devastation of the South during the Civil War remember Sheman’s march to the Sea?”
Classic Republican thinking. The rhetoric is all about how strong, self sustaining and tough you are but underlying this talk is the reality. Embrace victimhood. All your problems can be blamed on others. It’s the Liberals. It’s the media. You even go back to the Civil war to embrace your victimhood entitlement. Sherman is to blame for the making the south poor? Get over it already. It’s been over a hundred years for godsake. Stop whining about how poor southern states were mistreated by the south. The south is responsible for what happened to them in the civil war. Call it karma, call it divine intervention, call it whatever you like but slavery was the cause your side was fighting to preserve. I hardly have much sympathy for the poor southern plantation owners who’s homes were burnt to the ground as a direct result of their continued support for slavery as an institution.
As for the canard about sustainable wages vs cheap labor. They’re two different things. Sustainable wages describe jobs that pay enough money that people can raise a family on the income. Try finding one of those jobs inside a chicken processing plant. The auto industry does indeed provide livable wages because those are UAW jobs. That’s another fact that Rush or Hannity probably haven’t let you in on. Try thinking for yourself for a change.
Well Nick, I can’t actually show you what the CENTCOM plans were because they are sitting on my officemate’s desk and they are marked SECRET
Dotar Sojat pleads: “Steve P. – please stay wherever you are.”
Dotar, as far as I know, this is still free country, and I enjoy riding my Harley all over it and I’m not going to stop for you.
But don’t worry, I’m staying right where I am in my blue state. We’ve got the money, the education, the health care and the jobs up here. I’ve seen what you guys have to offer down there, and it comes up really short.
#86: Washington State B&O is a horrible tax on Gross Profits.
WRONG. Washington state B&O is a horrible tax on gross income – your business can lose your guzitsa this year, and still must pay B&O on every nickel you take in.
That sort of tax was OK as long as it was understood that its multiplier would remain very low. And it (with its companion sales tax) sure beats a ‘progressive’ income tax of the Obama sort.
But naked greed by the political class for the lunch money of every kid on the block has boosted the B&O and the sales tax and the property tax (gotta pay for those unaccountable light rail systems and publicly financed privately owned sports palaces) to confiscatory levels. No wonder Boeing left for Elsewhere.
Guard your remaining valuables.
jerryofva,
“Well Nick, I can’t actually show you what the CENTCOM plans were because they are sitting on my officemate’s desk and they are marked SECRET”
But we should trust you that you’ve seen them and
“The Afghan surge was planned in 2008 and is not an Obama innovation.”
WTF? Don’t play if you can’t remember what you’re saying from one post to the next.
“Sadly, the latest migrants from “The Grapes Of Obama And The Democrat’s Wrath” carry their left-leaning votes with them. Perhaps this is an alien plot – make a state “blue” then move “blues” to red states achieving the effect causing the red states to go rotten as well.”
I call this Blue State Rot. The blue staters, like a virus, filter into nearby red states and start voting blue, infecting their new states and causing the viral rot to begin there, too.
Well Nick you believe what you want.
Oh and this Bush copied the Iraq timetable from Obama is pure BDS-induced fanatasy
I doubt Obama actually opposed the war. He said he did for political purposes secure in the knowledge that Bush would do the right thing.
You are a typical New Yorker full of noise, but with all the substance of Citibank.
nynick: “The auto industry does indeed provide livable wages because those are UAW jobs. That’s another fact that Rush or Hannity probably haven’t let you in on. Try thinking for yourself for a change.”
The Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Nissan plants in the U.S. are not unionized. But the pay is still quite good. And, last time I checked, those companies aren’t on the verge of bankruptcy. Amazingly enough, all of the companies with a UAW workforce are.
So much for the UAW…
As for the canard about sustainable wages vs cheap labor. They’re two different things. Sustainable wages describe jobs that pay enough money that people can raise a family on the income. Try finding one of those jobs inside a chicken processing plant. The auto industry does indeed provide livable wages because those are UAW jobs. That’s another fact that Rush or Hannity probably haven’t let you in on. Try thinking for yourself for a change.
Nissan and Honda also provide good jobs for American workers, and these are non-union jobs.
Take this “good-jobs-at-good-wages” bullcrap down the road. I remember the ’70s.
——-
On another note, the Repubs have allowed themselves to get pegged as a one- (or at best two- or three-) issue party. Every time some Repub talking head speaks, I wonder when something about “intelligent design” or “the unborn” will come out.
The media already have you guys caricatured this way; you’re not doing anything to help yourselves right now either.
Face facts: the voting public has moved on from Roe v. Wade, and you’re caught out on the wrong side of “intelligent design”. Science class is not the place for theology.
Take a cue from Neal Boortz: whenever anyone on his show wants to talk about abortion, he just hangs up on them.
jerryofva writes:
“Oh and this Bush copied the Iraq timetable from Obama is pure BDS-induced fanatasy”
Really? Because I remember a time when we weren’t supposed to talk about timetables for withdrawal. It was treasonous according to some. Then a funny thing happened. The White house started to talk about a “general time horizon”. Within weeks of that change in rhetoric, timetables were no longer the stuff of looney left surrender monkeys.
That change happened right about the time Maliki embraced Obama’s target dates for withdrawal. Odd don’t you think?
buddy larsen
“ny nick sez Okay genius living in a trailer next to a pig farm with more kids than original teeth, please point out a lie. Redstates don’t take more from the federal government than they put in? Redstates aren’t less educated? Redstates don’t attract industries primarily because of their cheap labor? I’m willing to be you that I have a higher level of education than anyone in your trailer park. –and then wonders why he has that sinking feeling that people are starting to actually hate this parasite/ingrate sort of master of a made-up universe.”
Playing the victim again are we? my post was in response to this:
“Nick thinks that way, because he’s probably been on welfare himself for most of his life,and as a special needs child(mental retardation,pathological lying),needs all the social services he can leech from the stupid liberal taxpayers in NYC.”
I’m thinking maybe you live to close to one of those pig farms. The fumes are affecting your ability to read.
Trouble,
“Nissan and Honda also provide good jobs for American workers, and these are non-union jobs.”
True enough but those wages are influenced by the prevailing wages at other plants in the region. Anyone who thinks that wages are not impacted by the implied threat of unionization is fooling themselves. It’s economics 101. Look at the wages inside food processing plants in very poor rural areas where union organizing has taken place and where it hasn’t.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2095722
“Yes, blue states may suffer but since blue states subsidize redstates in terms of federal tax revenue, it’s the red states that will really be hit hard. States like Texas”
Look at the list, sir; Texas is one of the “subsidizing” states, only getting back $0.94 for every dollar in taxes it pays.
And calling Michigan a “swing state” instead of a “blue state” is rich. Since 1972, California and Michigan have always gone for the very same Presidential candidate in every election.
Socialism is but a cloak worn by Syndicalists.
The Democrat elites have practiced a calculated, hardened form of Alinskyism, using Stalin’s own “Identity Politics” methodology to paralyze debate and consideration. This corruption of fundamental process is so severe, most “progressive” Democrats self-identify as Democrats/Progressives first and as Americans second.
Why is Syndicalism so dangerous? It brings the death of Meritocracy.
Here we arrive at the serial collapse of management and functionality in our major cities, schools, public corporations and universities coupled to the rise of rampant unionism and syndicalism.
Through these governing frames it become easier to understand why the Blue States are dying. The parochial syndicate interests that have evolved into control of the Blue States are unsustainable because there is increasingly insufficient production contributed from meritocracy to create the value added; all is transitioning to a system of patronage and confiscation. Through the skillful use of Identity Politics the corrupt progressives have fabricated an identity of “Democrat” as a secular religion, creating legions of True Believers. They stop thinking. They start accusing. Demanding. The tyranny is everywhere.
Obama is essentially a Syndicalist self-draped in socialist fuzzies, obsessively confiscating the money of others to enrich and further embolden the patronage that forms his identity, power and the expression of his idealizing narcissism and the pernicious deeply-rooted pathology it represents.
The Blue States are coming for the Red States because there is nowhere left to go. The Blue States have been cascading into bankruptcy for more than a decade. Every institutional entity practicing the same “monetized theology” of the Blue states is also bankrupt. Their perfect storm is here and it’s splashing on to all of us.
What happened? The Syndicalism of the 20th Century is bankrupt without major federal intervention and infusion. It’s addiction to patronage and confiscated money rampaging desperately. Like any other addiction, it’s got to hit bottom before the real healing can begin.
This is the 21st Century, and the Syndicalism of the 20th Century should die its natural death. We need to let it happen. A massive parasite hidden in plain view of most Americans is dying a natural death. We need to let it die.
Let Meritocracy be restored across the land. What good is freedom if there is no Liberty?
Nick – your degrees are? Your private sector, non grant funded employment is? The reason you have so much time in the middle of a work day is? Just wanted to establish your bona fides.
NY Nick
Dems are working hand in hand with the msm that is covering for them and almost singularly attacking those who pose any threat to one party rule. Why aren’t Barney Frank and Chris Dodd resigning for their part in touching off this mortgage meltdown? If they were republican they would be hounded! Why hasn’t obama payed for his part in helping acorn’s activism to force banks to lower lending standard since the 90′s, and to halt republican efforts to regulate, yes, regulate the mortgage industry from ’03 onwards particularly fmae, fmac? Blago, Rangel, and Burris are just the tip of the democratic corruption iceberg. Look at tall the appointees who didn’t pay taxes! Gosh, how come hardly anyone’s been investigated for this huge WORLD WIDE meltdown? By all means, lets bring in Phil Gramm, a favorite whipping boy, along with all the above democrats and get started. Somehow, I don’t think it’ll ever happen now.
Go watch the video on youtube, “how obama got elected” the people who voted for obama in droves, as you say, (another lie, for all the money spent and non coverage of obama’s follies they could only get the votes they got. Yes, a win but democracy is on life support now.) were lied to and kept in the dark by the very people who were tasked with maintaining a well informed america so it could make a choice.
obama and the dems are building a bigger version of the mortgage meltdown with the stimulus. They’re building it all on more and more lies, and attack any one who tries to stop it, with ridicule, twisting facts, playing with demographics like you do. Bush did more to put dems in power, as you argue? Well obama is blowing bush away for the policies that got bush/republicans unelected.
I lived in pennsylvania ten years ago, nothing was changing, the dems just kept going and going, marginalizing opponents, protests, keeping things in stasis. I moved to Utah and within a year I was earning twice what I did in Pa. There were just more opportunities easier to get to.
Now dems are building what I saw in Pa on a national level. Hollowed out industry, stagnation, fewer opportunities for advancing, lethargy (“its not your fault. _____did this to you”). The people in Pa. were often so depressed, nothing seemed like it would ever change. The day I told some friends I was leaving for Utah they said that’s the third person they knew to leave the state this month and started to catalogue who had moved to what state from Pa. The states they mentioned will sound familiar to what has already been posted here: Texas, etc….
There will be no where to go if we don’t stop dems now and get them out of office. Their loss of power is all that will solve this problem.
Dotar Sojat,
I have a graduate degree from a state college. I’m a partner in a midsized technology services company. I’m working as we speak. Believe it or not, I can do more than one thing at a time. And you? What’s your “bona fides”?
ny nikc: Look at the wages inside food processing plants in very poor rural areas where union organizing has taken place and where it hasn’t.
And look at the financial condition of GM, Ford and Chrysler as compared to the American operations of Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai. I hope that the Big Three workers saved their higher wages – they may really need them when the parent companies go belly up.
nynick:
True enough but those wages are influenced by the prevailing wages at other plants in the region. Anyone who thinks that wages are not impacted by the implied threat of unionization is fooling themselves. It’s economics 101. Look at the wages inside food processing plants in very poor rural areas where union organizing has taken place and where it hasn’t.
The jstor site requires cookies access, so I couldn’t read the reference, my apologies on that. I still wonder if it is the threat of unionization, or instead the threat of finding other employment, that is at work (no pun intended) here. As long as workers can walk off the job to find better pay, prevailing wages will go up. This has more to do with the general economic climate than with organization of workers. It seems like there are a lot of variables in that equation, IMHO.
Like I said, I remember the ’70s. Fortunately, I also remember the ’80s and ’90s.
IMHO, federal spending is the real problem. All these arguments about who’s-bailing-out-whom, or tax-and-spend vs. borrow-and-spend, are window dressing. That’s the problem I have with the Repubs – where were you guys in 2002-2003 when we could have forestalled all of this?
Does no-one in either party understand that our problems with the credit supply and the money supply would be reduced greatly if the federal government didn’t consume so much of both?
I guess this is why I’m so torqued off at the so-called “social conservatives”. They effectively killed fiscal and constitutional conservatism in the Republican party. There’s nothing ‘conservative’ about the drug war or anti-abortion laws; the conservative thing to do is to mind your own business. If the social conservatives are so big on the “intent of the Founders”, then they should remember Jefferson’s “It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg” standard of harm.
Fordguy,
Ah, but there is more the story. The big three build most of their cars in either Canada or Mexico and we cannot blame the UAW alone. Their management has been abysmal. It’s the combination of poor product planning, bad decisions by management on pension liability and their out of date plant operations that put the big three in the position they find themselves in today.
Nissan and Hyundai have been on the recieving end of government subsidies too.
A couple Californians opined that the R’s there need to be more serious about fiscal conservatism, and tone down the social conservatism.
That was Ah-nold’s schtick. How’s that working out for you?
Point of fact, if you want a serious fiscal conservative, you’re probably also going to get a serious social conservative at the same time. “Just” Fiscons tend to be squishy like a fish.
I think its because they have not wholly rejected liberalism, and so when they get attacked by liberals, the mental gates of the castle of their mind are already open, and just anybody can stroll in, and loot the place.
Also, those of you that are worried about your Red state turning lame Blue might want to take a peek at Tennessee. Supposedly it went from Red to Crimson. Now, I think there was a game played in the local senate where a RINO sided with the Dems to get the RINO in charge…not sure how that played out. But the point is, look for areas that are succeeding, and see if you can take away some good ideas from them.
To whatever answer there may be I think it must first start with constitutional changes at the State level.
To the extent possible:
1. The state may not borrow money, nor may they spend money they don’t have.
2. Taxes will be capped at a set percentage (Y). If the GDP of a state is X amount of dollars the state government may not enact taxes which bring in more than Y per cent of that amount. If they do it must be refunded to the tax payers.
3. The state may not elect or contract to pay for any services or benefits to anyone other than in the current fiscal year. In other words, no state pensions or open-ended entitlements. Give them 401(k)’s.
4. If any elected official votes for legislation that is in direct violation of such provisions then any citizen of the state may file a petition in any [here in Texas it would be District Court] alleging such misconduct. If proved, the official in question shall be immediately removed from office, and shall be permanently barred from holding any office, elected or otherwise, in state government. Original Jurisdiction will remain in the court in which such a petition is filed, and it will be the responsibility of that Court to determine whether the official in question is guilty of violating these constitutional provisions. No filing fee will or can be required.
–in other words, don’t let the government police itself, and throw them out immediately when they do the usual stuff we have to put up with.
5. If any non-elected employee of the state acts in a manner inconsistent with points 1,2, or 3 above, they too are subject to being booted out by the same procedure, and would become ineligible to work for the state, or any subdivision thereof, ever again.
6. In order to change such constitutional provisions it would require (A)At least 50% of the registered voters vote in an election to do so (no “stealth” elections) and (B) a super-majority (like 75%) vote to change it.
Deguello is kind of right when he says cities are dumping grounds.
If you live in a city you need three skills.
1. A money making skill.
2. Be able to get along with weirdos.
3. Be able to spend money for all the services you need.
Can’t cook? Chinese takeout. Can’t wash clothes? Drycleaner down the street. Can’t fix the toilet? The landlord. Roof is leaking? Still the landlord. Can’t drive a stick, or even an automatic? No biggie.
Be willing to conform, and have one marketable skill, and the City is yours.
Out in the Country, you actually have to have talents and force of mind and body.
I live near Washington, DC which has elected Democratic mayors for three decades. Note I said near, not in Washington, DC, because if you want safe streets and decent schools and you have to live right outside it. Unfortunately since DC is taxed so highly, the surrounding areas have less competition and can keep their own taxes high too.
Where I live, the marginal income tax rate for a family with average household income is about 35%. In DC it would be even higher. Once you get to double the average income, you’re looking at marginal rates of 40%+. If you save your extra income and put it in a CD or invest it, you get taxed again on the income or gains of course.
It’s no wonder at all that the housing bubble was created in these regions, as once you get to a certain income level you’re almost forced to buy a big house and take out a big mortgage for the tax deduction.
Why buy a $500k home when you can buy a $1m home for only $1500/month more, after taxes are taken into consideration. (6% interest w/40% tax deduction.) Its very easy to understand how houses became people’s nest eggs and ATMs. Big houses became the only good way to protect income and savings from the punitive 40% tax rates.
“The big three build most of their cars in either Canada or Mexico”
No, they don’t. Is there a particular reason you feel the need to blatantly lie? Most Big Three cars are assembled in U.S. assembly plants.
Doctorate level degree. Last 25 years in commercial real estate lending (and still doing business). To busy to pay even this much attention to blogging. Happily located in the Midwest with award winning schools for the kids, affordable houses that would cost a million in CT or on LI, enjoying good BBQ, playing a little golf, not generally looking down my nose at other regions of the contry.
NY Nick:
The reason that Bush didn’t talklines is because the enemy would just sit out the war until we left. You don’t tell your opponent when you plan on ending the game. Bush’s timetable was event driven not clock driven. The surge, that Obama opposed because he said would fail and would create more terrorists, worked. So much for Obama’s military judgement. The Bush withdrawal plan is result of military victory while the Obama plan was just cut and run. Bush didn’t need to take advice from an empty suit who had no knowledge of military operations.
You are just another loudmouth NY moron.
Joe,
google it. You find out how wrong you are. What do you think GM, Ford and Chysler are doing in Canada and Mexico? Making fortune cookies?
The fundamental flaw of our “representative” government is a permanent class of non-producers disquised as lawmakers who are addicted to Other Peoples Money. They end up in charge of the piggy bank, taking money from the producers and giving it to both themselves and their friends. They are insatiable and unstoppable short of a financial meltdown. Read a book called A Distant Crossing. Fiction has become fact.
you guys save this somewhere and drag it back out sometime when you have a hour or three:
http://www.deepcapture.com
Dotar Sojat,
Good for you. I don’t look down my nose at any region, just some of the idiots who inhabit them. Also, I think you’ve lost track of the article that preceded this discussion. Talk about “looking down their nose at other regions”.
We play golf here too. My kids also go to great schools (my wife is a principle at one) and we get food from everywhere on earth including good (not as good as I’ve had in Raleigh) BBQ too. We also have the Opera, Broadway, world class museums, historic universities, and the best public transporation system in the world, the subway.
Look, I was born in Nevada, I’ve lived in Atlanta, Chicago, London and NYC. There are great things about all the places I’ve lived in. We’re all in this together. Redstates, blue states, liberals and conservatives. Some people don’t see it that way.
jerryofva,
“You are just another loudmouth NY moron.”
And you’re just another ignorant wingnut without an original thought in his head. Keep letting Rush and Sean do your thinking for you. People like you are the reason VA now has Democratic Senator. Most thinking folks take a look at your kind and are repulsed. Ask the former Senator Allen.
ny nick writes:
And you’re just another ignorant wingnut without an original thought in his head. Keep letting Rush and Sean do your thinking for you. People like you are the reason VA now has Democratic Senator. Most thinking folks take a look at your kind and are repulsed. Ask the former Senator Allen.
And I submit to you sir, that you are what you pretend to hate. People who disagree with you are caricatures? That’s all you can see in them?
But of course, you are one of the thinking folks. A caricature sir. Anybody who would divide humanity into the “thinking” and the “non-thinking” is a caricature themselves, and it is not a pretty one. Look in the mirror.
Only a Northeastern Liberal like nynick would confuse, say, expenditures for military bases with welfare. Of course, they routinely confuse “taxation” with “investment” and “patriotism” with “judgment”.
We all know, even the likes of Nick, that the Red States are more supportive (and enlistive) in the military than the blue states. How many Ivy League schools host ROTC? How many Ivy League Law schools welcome military recruiters? How’s it going for that Marine recruiting office in Berkeley? Or the MPs at Vandenberg AFB?
NY Nick:
Like every loudmouth NY moron you resort to insult when you can’t refute an argument. (I only resort to insult when I make my point)
Let’s get back to the original point of the thread. You seem to have soviet-style electoral model in mind. Do you think blue states vote 99.5% Democratic? Evem NYC turns in 10-15% Republican votes. Who do you think these people are? welfare queens? These are the well educated productive segment of a blue state. Blue states are blue not because of a small number of hyper-educated socialists. They are blue because of the vast uneducated and ignorant underclass and the half educated bureaucratic class that feeds on them. It takes a Republican middle class to produce the revenues to support the welfare state. Blue states are driving them away.
You might want to read the Washington Post on how they engineered Webb’s victory. They let him get away with an anti-Semitic attack on Harris Miller, his opponent in the Democratic Primary, and then they helped him use the same tactics against George Allen. They were very proud of it.
Oh yeah, I don’t listen to Rush Limbaugh. I don’t have anything against him I just don’t listen to talk radio. Your reference to Limbaugh shows that you are idiot without a thought in your head and that you let others do your thinking for you.
NY Nick, Give it up.
I’ve lived in Upstate NY most of my life. Niagara Falls went from an industrial town to a reasonable facsimile of a bombed out WWII city when all the industry was driven out by the fiscal and environmental policies pushed by New York City. There’s a reason the state is bleeding residents- 1 of every 7 jobs is a government job.
They tell us that the balance of tax payments and expenditures is balanced between NY and upstate. What they don’t tell you is we got all the prisons and prisoners from New York City.
When I retire, or lose my job, I’m gone to Texas. I didn’t vote for this. It got crammed down my throat.
All you people that hate California:
1. Where were your congressional representatives when we begged for help at the border since 1980? Where were they when we passed laws to ban benefits to illegals that were tossed out by federal judges? From what I can see, Illiois reps were bribing someone, Utah’s were in a stall, NY’s were partying with Spitzer and that nice call girl, Louisiana’s were stuffing cash in freezers and drilling holes in the levees, . . . while we were howling for help in a federal only area. Now the problem is so big it cannot be ignored. It costs us billions each year to educate and assure decent health to people who cannot be ignored. We tried: your congressional reps ignored us. If the feds gave us the dollars to pay for this mess–their mess–we woudn’t be in this spot.
2. To Katherine #30: you are quite right; a shame the GOP in this state cares more about their purity of thought and assuring that gays canot marry than winning elections.
3. To Deguello, who called Steve Lopez “talentless” etc: he’s not talentless at all: show some nuance here; he’s better than George (“I never saw a tax increase I didn’t like”) Skelton, and unlike the real talentless hacks there (Rosa Brooks and Joel Stein), he can write. But like everyone at the Times from Rainey on down, they all think that taxes are never high enough, government never big enough, and they will go on thinking this as the Times shrinks, California implodes and business flees. Like the old Roman emperors, their only thought will be “more controls, more taxes.” Blame it on their poor education. But he’s not talentless and he seems like a very decent human being, even if his politics are a bit left and Skelton is a warmer human being : Lopez is about the only one worth reading. Want to blame someone for being a tax cheerleader, blame Skelton.
All the Kalifornia blue balls can please stay home! Do not Kalifornicate Utah!
Tennwriter:
I think its because they have not wholly rejected liberalism, and so when they get attacked by liberals, the mental gates of the castle of their mind are already open, and just anybody can stroll in, and loot the place.
Huh? Why is it that social conservatives are so fond of goofy metaphors?
Worrying about “total rejection of liberalism” is a waste of time, anyway. It’s an argument over labels. For instance, in my opinion, the “drug war” is one of the best examples out there of a big-government social program run amuck… yet, many so-called “conservatives”, in their unconserved inability to mind their own business, love it. So do a lot of liberals also, if for different reasons.
“It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg” sounds like a pretty iron-clad principle to me.
Oh yes, how silly of me, I did forget: the “drug war” is FOR THE CHEELLLLDRRENNNN! In other words, forfeit your freedoms and fork over your wallet.
OK, but New York BBQ is the most stupendous oxymoron one could possibly imagine, and I’ve lived in NC, and that ain’t it, either. For that reason alone, we should lighten up on Nick.
California and New York are headed for bankruptcy because they continue to raise taxes and chase businesses and people out of their states. Now that there is a real economic crisis the move to higher taxes and people fleeing these areas will accelerate. It will not be long before these political and union corrupt states will come to look like third world banana republics.
One thing most people ignore is the degree to which those overleveraged blue states contribute to the national coffer. Take a look some time at net federal revenue flows.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf
Circa 2004, that big, blue, overleveraged, irresponsible behemoth on the west coast (that just happens to represent ~10% of the entire US population) contributed a _net_ of over $50 billion to the rest of the country. Yeah, you noticed – that works out to about half the total state budget this year.
jerryofva,
Let’s get back to the original point of the thread. You seem to have soviet-style electoral model in mind. Do you think blue states vote 99.5% Democratic? Evem NYC turns in 10-15% Republican votes. Who do you think these people are? welfare queens? These are the well educated productive segment of a blue state. Blue states are blue not because of a small number of hyper-educated socialists. They are blue because of the vast uneducated and ignorant underclass and the half educated bureaucratic class that feeds on them. It takes a Republican middle class to produce the revenues to support the welfare state. Blue states are driving them away.
Exactly. I am as red as can be but work in a blue city. I am darn sure that the tax revenues that Nick sees as coming from “blue” states actually come from “red” individuals in those states. Look at how much NY state is suffering because of the loss of tax revenues from Wall Street.
In short, his claims to great charity and productivity are like all leftist claims: BS.
Isn’t this the irony of ironies? Think about it folks. We were told by the media (you know, the alphabet TV nets that promote all things socialist-Democrat), that Americans & especially wealthy Americans, “want” to pay more taxes.
Now ask yourself. If they really wanted to pay more taxes, then why are they migrating away from high tax states? Why is capital moving to those “off-shore” accounts? Why is capital moving to international investments & tax free nations?
If George Soros of MoveON.org fame, Theresa Heinz-Kerry of Heinz ketchup & John Kerry (reporting for duty) fame, Pinch Sulzberger of the New York Times fame, & a plethora of other wealthy liberals, want to pay more taxes so much, why have they failed to send in checks to the treasury for all these years as “they got theirs?”
We “might” see taxes go up for the wealthy. BUT, what we will really see are taxes going up for all. That includes whatever your definition of middle class is. The difference will be that those of middle class status will be paying significantly more than they had been previously, and getting less in return.
The wealthy will move their money & their means of accumulating more, to those locations that are tax free or tax friendly. And those of us in the lower classes, those of us on fixed incomes only, will pay significantly more for everyday things in our lives. Gas, food, medicines, rents, clothing, everything, will cost significantly more. All Obama has done is generate where he gets taxes from. He may raise them on the wealthy, but in the end the wealthy will flee where their taxes are higher while Obama collects those taxes from everyone else.
This is s scam. A great ponzi scam. In the end, socialism is a ponzi scam. Perhaps the ultimate ponzi scheme!
Obama will have to take more & more from all so he can pay for his ever increasing needs to build up his government that will need more & more to function, so the taxes will go up so more & more can be taken, because costs will go up & more & more will be needed until there is nothing left for anyone to take or get & the entire ponzi scheme fails us!
The rich do NOT want to pay more taxes. History shows they always look for ways to evade paying & our current crop of wealthy persons are as greedy as any ever in history!
All they will do is transfer the tax burden to everyone else, as they loaf about in their government supplied tax shelters which have always materialized when the wealthy said to the government, do this or I go elsewhere! Its an adult version of the playground situation where some greedy jerk of a kid says, “its my rules or I take my ball home!”
The time to install a new government “of, by & for the people” is fast approaching! Are you ready for a potential conflagration?
nynick:
Hey…lemme tell ya about Maryland, a state in whose politics I erned my “Union Thug Pin” in.
Pay REALLY close attention to this, okay? Because it’s important.
If every Marylander who lived within a ten mile stretch on either side of the I-95 corridor disappeared into thin air, the state would be as Conservative as Indiana.
Go check the election results by county, any year…you’ll see.
The point is that the heavily urbanized and suburbanized is where people are MOST under the thumb of SOME form of Government.
The growth of government, both in width and in depth, is the determinant of whether a population votes Liberal or Conservative.
And why is that?
Because the Government provides people the illusion that they are not spending their own money.
Laker writes:
California and New York are headed for bankruptcy because they continue to raise taxes and chase businesses and people out of their states. Now that there is a real economic crisis the move to higher taxes and people fleeing these areas will accelerate. It will not be long before these political and union corrupt states will come to look like third world banana republics.
Sorry, but in the age of the big Zero, any Blue State that is in financial difficulty will be bailed out by the Feds. If you think that the Democrats will treat California, New York, or Massachusetts any differently from GM I fear that you are very wrong.
—Blue states like New York and Massachusetts have better health care and better education than your red ones, —
Spoken like a true arrogant political elite master.
“”Of course Buffy and I have better educations, we control the legacies and our media monopoly makes sure that no other source of education is respected. Oh that bumpkin Sarah Palin.”" Thank goodness for our trust funds. We have such better health because great grandfather stole so much money and we don’t have to work. Taxes? Their for the little people who need income. We have wealth.”"
—-Bush went to an Ivy League school. So did Phil Gramm. I guess that proves your point. Those two Ivy leaguers did indeed ruin the banking system. —–
Bawney Fwank went to Haahhhhvaahhhd.. Chris Dodd went to Prahhhhvidence. Chris Dodd’s father took corrupt mortgage money… So did Chris Dodd.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/us/politics/24dodd.html?_r=1
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2188044/posts
That proves TRULY that Democrats ruined the banking system in line with their corrupt ideology of “spreading the wealth”. Gee where did I hear that phrase?
Well, let’s see.
Way back at number 36 Stan pointed out the root cause of our problem with the federal government: the federal income tax. It needs to be capped. At ten percent, in my opinion. Fat chance, though.
Down the line, someone expressed the fear that blue staters would be moving to red states. I don’t think so – they can’t sell their houses.
At 99, JMH sets up three broad categories of Democratic voters. He overlooks a 4th, black and browners. Without the black & brown vote, the Democrats lose every election. Of course, that category overlaps heavily with category 1, government dependents.
And speaking of category 1, I think when you look at the stimulus bill, you can see how Obama is aiming to increase that category. It’s how Chicago Democrats keep hold of the city and county government.
I don’t think we can do much to stop things, though. Too many people have stopped being or have never become responsible for themselves, and every institution in our society seems to promote that. What I think we are going to see is an increasingly lawless country, not in the sense of violence, but in the sense of petty corruption. As in all socialist countries, personal acquaintance and political connections will be the coin of the realm.
Anyone who doesn’t think we are going socialist? We’re already there. How many of us will walk away from the government goodies when they come our way? How many of us won’t willingly use personal acquaintances to get our kids into a good school, or get our street plowed first?
America is over. Like Pogo said, “we have met the enemy, and he is us.”
NY Nick…
A couple of obsersvations:
1) In a cursory look I couldn’t find the methodology for the compilation of the collections / expenditure by state in your citations. Since you are basing virtually your entire argument on it you should know – how does the data sort/attribute collections by state? If Oprah lives in Illinois and files as Illinois resident then her state gets the credit correct? allsame Hollywood stars, entertainers? If most Fortune 500 Cos are based in blue states then their taxes are attributed to their state (eg New York, California etc) even though much if not most of their productive/earning activities are outside of that state. If my assumption is correct – let me know if it is otherwise – then all your statistic has asserted is that large urban centers tend to house corporate offices and media/entertainment types tend to live in large urban centers – it has little to do with productivity or populations that are self-sustaining or not… Likewise, without knowing the nature of the Federal expenditures it’s dangerous to generalize about the implications regarding the resident populations of the respective states (spending for military facilities implies something different than say medicaid reimbursements). You’ve grabbed an extraordinarily broad stat and tried, condescendingly, to ascribe all kinds of particular characteristics as a result. It’s sloppy, simplistic and lacking any understanding of complexity and nuance and you should be embarassed. (nb – the folks to the right of you should take care as well – but they haven’t generally assumed your level of arrogance.)
2) I would recommend that you go back and read your posts and ask a friend or two and your spouse to read them as well and give you some feedback – they display an unhealthy, high level of self-regard and a misanthropic personality that is, at a minimum, odious. Would you talk to anyone in person that way? Seriously, either your posts are an exercise in Walter Mitty self-delusion (and patently false in tone and kind) or you lack even the most rudimentary people skills and need help. Personally, I have found it helpful to extend a little grace to those I disagree with and focus on finding the truth of a matter rather than insulting those on the other side – as you said, we are in this together.
3) Finally, because I need to be brief and have more important things to do I’ll wrap this up with just one (of many) errors I see in your posts: You don’t understand the meaning of “bona fides”. When you use a word you should understand it… you seem to have confused bona fides (good faith, sincerity) with curriculum vitae – (qualifications or biography) – I would have thought anyone with an undergraduate degree (and more so a “graduate” degree) would have grasped the difference or just not used a term that is confusing. It kind of reminds me of the bar scene in the movie Good Will Hunting… and, unfortunately, it totally undermines your (we smarty-pants Blue Staters know better) “appeal from authority” argument.
Maybe you should rethink that “I can do more than one thing at a time” concept… just sayin’…
I have not read all the comments since my last post(at 100). However I would like to talk about the wonderful propaganda piece posted by
“54. ny nick:
#43 calls me a liar but he offers no proof. Follow the link below and you’ll see for yourself.
http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm”
In classic libtard math most ppl fail to understand what they are looking at.
First most red states have huge armies/army bases/etc on them next to their population size. This means yes they draw a “huge” amount of federal money. However the army is hardly a state issue its federal. Blue states benefit from it as well… thus it shouldn’t be counted.
Another major factor are native indians something that most red states have large numbers and most blue states don’t. And once again factor in population size and even a small tribe makes a huge tax impression.
I could keep on listing hundreds more factors that cause the huge sums of federal money to flow to red states… but really don’t go to red states to spend. Vs say places like CA which are demanding money for health care and a host of other direct state spending.
Once again to sum up… Once you remove the federal spending on federal items such as the military(which has nothing to due with the state) you will clearly see that places like CA and NY get alot more in federal money back to state things then red states.
robotech: thanks for the research.
To my conservative brethern, if you would allow me to shine some big-picture perspective on the situation, I would be happy to elaborate as to why the Republican Party is all but dead.
As of today, there is no visionary leadership in the GOP, and by that I mean absolutely ZERO! If you are hanging your hat on Bobby Jindal or Sarah Palin for 2012, good luck with that. The GOP has become a party of goofy and superstitious clowns.
This became crystal clear the other night during Obama’s eloquent and intelligent speech to the nation. When the camera panned on old John McCain, with that dazed & confused look on his face, tens of millions of people probably had the exact same feeling that I had: Thank God it’s not you up there on that podium addressing the nation tonight. Conservatives, it’s time for a reality check. People like George Allen, Tom Delay and Rick Santorum are the best you have to offer. It’s not going to get any better for you than that. The Republican Party is toast for at least the next decade, and probably much longer than that. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Jesus said to know the truth would set you free.
#185 Mike Roberts:
“Conservatives, it’s time for a reality check. People like George Allen, Tom Delay and Rick Santorum are the best you have to offer.”
Any one of theose three might soone look Rushmore-worthy if the Alleged Hawaiian screws the pooch.
(Which mathematically looks like a certainty).
Just remember, in March of ’07, we were all gearing up for the UberFrauFuhrer Clinton’s Second Reich.
These days, things chage fast…
Hey Mike – I agree that the Republican party is dead. But it’s not for the reasons you think. It’s because in six years under George Bush it demonstrated that it is NOT a conservative party. The problem is whether we can get rid of the corpse, so that a new and truly conservative party can replace it. I’m not sure that’s possible under our current campaign laws. So we might have to take over the Democratic party…
It’s the Rhino that is dead, b/c they act like liberals. The Republicans must set a conservative course and a well-defined mission that embraces and stands for specific values such as: fiscal responsibility, liberty, the individual, lower taxes, real capitalism, smaller gov’t, etc….. McCain failed b/c he could not support or articulate that visison b/c he does not hold those standards. The conservatives will not be respected by the media and can not cave into the media propaganda. Set standards and respectfully live by them. Get back to being successful and supporting success, not supporting a welfare state and class envy.
Jonsey55 – that’s what I do…I live in Vancouver, WA and do my “big purchases” over in Portland…I call it “getting over on DA MAN”!
Wow, schadenfreude- it just crackles off this post, don’t it?
Here’s a message from us cornfed, heartland 48 to you suave coastie 52- happy, comrades?
But us folks in flyover country are ever so concerned about your plight- that is, after we uns velcrowz our shoes n’ pix up round the double wide and suchlike.
Seriously though- thanks a bunch, dumbasses. See you on the soup lines.
A trillion dollar stimulus package.
Who knew Kool Aid was so expensive?
This stimulus bill is like roller skating on glue.
You won’t get very far, and in no time you’ll be stuck on the ground, down on your hands and knees.
In order to reduce your frustration you need to understand: “There are some people you can’t help”. There are as many reasons you can’t help them as there are people. To err is human. Private property and the market economy is a great system. It limits the damage caused by the errors to the stupid players that created/supported them. When government (i.e. taxpayers) steps in to “help people” (you can’t help); as an example: to insure loans they can’t pay, to bail out badly managed businesses/states, you are basically “co-signing” the note for a deadbeat. Stupid, very stupid. You would not do this at home, why allow your government to do it?
I live in upstate NY and cannot wait to get out of here. Just this year they are passing thousands more new “fees” for us to enjoy. We are even going to have to pay an extra 5 cents deposit on cans/bottles of drinks that are not diet. How long do you think it will take for the beer companies to label their brew as diet?
I assure the red states that wherever we land, we will NOT be bringing any blue culture with us, just the opposite in fact.
Oh Dear God no. Don’t move to Texas! The last thing we need here are people who helped cause the problems in their home states moving here, voting Democrat, and then VOILA, there the state income tax to go along with our sales and property taxes. Stay in your own state, fix your own damn problems by voting out the assclowns who are ruining it…
Blue states like New York and Massachusetts have better health care and better education than your red ones
Hilarious.
Assume for a second that the country splinters and bankrupt New York no longer receives actual food from the red states.
What then?
Don’t worry, you’ll have “health care”!
“You red staters ought worry about what the heck you’re all going to do when your elected leaders refuse the stimulus money and leave you all to fend for yourselves.”
Have you looked at what the “stimulus” I mean democratic spending plan money goes to???
The Red States do NOT want to encourage higher unemployment benefits. We don’t want people
to get a sense of security that they can chill out and sit on their asses and not look for work.
If you need help you can find it at many other places other than the Federal Government.
Of course Obama is trying to game the system so those options will diminish over time.
Obama objective is to increase unemployment & dependency in the working class.
The “stimulus” I mean democratic spending plan does nothing to help small business
and the people that could actually create jobs. The “stimulus” I mean democratic
spending plan is geared to help unions and academia. Much of the spending will go
to local law enforcement who is gearing up for the coming riots.
Here are a few “stimulus” I mean democratic spending projects:
Earmark Recipient: Acadia Partners for Science and Learning
$ 500000
House Sponsor: Allen, Thomas H.
Senate Sponsor: Snowe, Collins (NOW YOU SEE WHY THEY VOTED FOR IT) – Little Piggies comes to market
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Gulf of Maine Research Institute
$ 200000
House Sponsor: Allen, Thomas H.
Senate Sponsor: Snowe, Collins (NOW YOU SEE WHY THEY VOTED FOR IT) – Little Piggies comes to market
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Marine Environmental Research Institute
$ 100000
House Sponsor: Allen, Thomas H.
Senate Sponsor: Snowe, Collins (NOW YOU SEE WHY THEY VOTED FOR IT) – Little Piggies comes to market
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Gulf of Maine Lobster Foundation
$ 100000
House Sponsor: Allen, Thomas H.
Senate Sponsor: Snowe, Collins (NOW YOU SEE WHY THEY VOTED FOR IT) – Little Piggies comes to market
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
$ 650000
House Sponsor: Olver, John W.
Senate Sponsor: Kennedy, Kerry
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: University of Connecticut
$ 350000
House Sponsor: Courtney, Joe
Senate Sponsor: Dodd
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Save the Bay
$ 1000000
House Sponsor: Kennedy, Patrick J.
Senate Sponsor: Reed, Whitehouse
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Wildlife Conservation Society
$ 1000000
House Sponsor: Serrano, José
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: American Museum of Natural History
$ 250000
House Sponsor: Nadler, Jerrold; Hinchey, Maurice D.
Senate Sponsor: Schumer
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Berkeley Township Police Department
$ 500000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Lautenberg, Menendez
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
Earmark Recipient: Nurture Nature Foundation
$ 250000
House Sponsor: Dent, Charles W.
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Bloomsburg University
$ 200000
House Sponsor: Kanjorski, Paul E.
Senate Sponsor: Casey
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
Earmark Recipient: St. Francis University and St. Vincent College
$ 350000
House Sponsor: Murtha, John P.; Shuster, Bill
Senate Sponsor: Paragraph 2
International Trade Administration
Earmark Recipient: Clarion County
$ 500000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Specter (Payoff for being a turncoat)
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
Earmark Recipient: Thunder Bay Marine Sanctuary
$ 500000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Levin, Stabenow
NOAA–Procurement, Acquisition and Construction
Earmark Recipient: City of Lansing, MI
$ 500000
House Sponsor: Rogers (MI), Mike
Senate Sponsor: Levin, Stabenow
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
Earmark Recipient: Cook County
$ 200000
House Sponsor: Lipinski, Daniel
Senate Sponsor:
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
Earmark Recipient: Illinois State Geological Survey
$ 725000
House Sponsor: Johnson, Timothy V.; LaHood, Ray
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: State of Wisconsin
$ 2150000
House Sponsor: Obey, David R.
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Eastern Kentucky PRIDE, Inc
$ 1000000
House Sponsor: Rogers, Harold
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
to provide economic assistance, equally divided between States of Maryland and Virginia,
to watermen and communities impacted by the Secretary of Commerce’s
blue crab disaster declaration of September 22, 2008
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: States of Maryland and Virginia
$ 10000000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Mikulski, Warner, Cardin, Webb
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: University of Delaware
$ 750000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Biden, Carper
NOAA–Procurement, Acquisition and Construction
Earmark Recipient: University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science
$ 2000000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Mikulski, Cardin
NOAA–Procurement, Acquisition and Construction
Earmark Recipient: Mississippi Center for Conservation and Biodiversity
$ 1600000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Cochran
NOAA–Procurement, Acquisition and Construction
to conduct priority research and provide science support for the
restoration of the Pontchartrain Basin
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: State of Lousiana
$ 250000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Vitter
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Earmark Recipient: Alabama Department of Corrections (ADOC)
$ 375000
House Sponsor: Everett, Terry; Rogers (AL), Mike; Aderholt, Robert B.; Cramer, Jr., Robert E. (Bud)
Senate Sponsor:
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
to collect accurate, reliable data on red snapper catch, bycatch and mortality
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission
$ 1000000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Bill Nelson
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Nova Southeastern University National Coral Reef Institute
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Nova Southeastern University
$ 1000000
House Sponsor: Wasserman Schultz, Debbie; Klein, Ron
Senate Sponsor: Martinez
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Florida Marine Sportfish Replenishment
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Hubbs-SeaWorld Research Institute
$ 295000
House Sponsor: Weldon, Dave
Senate Sponsor: Bill Nelson
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Science Consortium for Ocean Replenishment
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Mote Marine Laboratory
$ 500000
House Sponsor: Buchanan, Vern
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Brooklyn, IL Public safety Technology Improvements
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Brooklyn Police Department
$ 100000
House Sponsor: Costello, Jerry F.
Senate Sponsor:
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
for a research initiative to improve understanding of surface winds and their damaging effects
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Iowa State University
$ 850000
House Sponsor:
Senate Sponsor: Harkin, Grassley
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
to purchase digital video cameras, a tactical blanket system and a tactical armored security vehicle
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: City of Billings, MONTANA
$ 269000
House Sponsor: Rehberg, Dennis R.
Senate Sponsor: Baucus, Tester
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
West Coast Weak Stock Salmon Solutions: Using “Real Time” Oceanographic
and Genetic Research to Improve Science, Management, and Marketing of West Coast Ocean Salmon Fisheries
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Oregon Salmon Commission
$ 200000
House Sponsor: Hooley, Darlene; Wu, David
Senate Sponsor: Wyden
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Klamath River Fish Disease Research–NOAA Fisheries
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Oregon State University
$ 640000
House Sponsor: DeFazio, Peter A.; Hooley, Darlene; Thompson, Mike; Blumenauer, Earl; Walden, Greg
Senate Sponsor: Wyden
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
San Francisco Gun Location Technology and Policing Project
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: City and County of San Francisco
$ 1000000
House Sponsor: Pelosi, Nancy
Senate Sponsor: Feinstein
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
California Bay Watershed Education and Training Program (B-WET)
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: NOAA Office of Education
$ 2500000
House Sponsor: Pelosi, Nancy; Capps, Lois; Farr, Sam
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
Lompoc Gang Activity Surveillance Program
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: City of Lompoc
$ 400000
House Sponsor: Gallegly, Elton
Senate Sponsor:
COPS Law Enforcement Technology
California Marine Fisheries Replenishment Program
By: Tom Jones
Earmark Recipient: Hubbs SeaWorld Research Institute
$ 250000
House Sponsor: Davis, Susan A.
Senate Sponsor:
NOAA–Operations, Research and Facilities
*Source – http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub%3Fkey%3DpqxnHT66fIAqY0H6YdMyJJg%26output%3Dtxt%26gid%3D0%26range%3Dkml_output%26time1%3D3987055
Good post #183. You saved me the trouble of refuting the clueless drivel that poster was spewing. You really have to laugh at people like that, especially when they prattle on about blue states being the educated “producers” as though a blue state like mine (New Jersey) is such because the educated, productive people are all Democrats. At best it is split (and that’s only due to pro-choice women), and the difference-maker is the left’s stranglehold on the non-producing urban slums and semi-slums.
Thirty years ago I moved to California to work and go to college. Everyone else at school was from somewhere else. It was exciting! “Where are you from, wow, isn’t it great here?”
Now I work in education, and it’s the exact opposite. In the last 3 years, lots of people have sold their homes before the market collapsed (the collapse being expected by any rational person) and looked elsewhere and bought elsewhere. It’s watching everybody leave and asking “where are you going? It sucks here.”
California deserves what it is getting.
First of all we have three of the most liberal advocates from our state; Pelosi, Feinberg, Boxer, not to mention a host of representatives that are self serving state and country bashers.
Second, we have the worst traffic mess in the country here, 40% of the cars on the road don’t have insurance. I don’t know how many of the drivers are driving without licenses. There are camera (Red light traps every) and fines are going up to $500 per infraction.
Third, there are illegal aliens everywhere. They’ve been given rights. They can sleep where they want and crap there too. The biggest reason this state is in trouble is that they present a huge burden to the state. We pay to educate their children, pay to give them health benefits, we pay to subsidize them in housing and food. We pay to keep the illegals who are felons in our prisons.
I watch them go through the recycling bins every week stealing bottles and cans so they can be redeemed. Those bottles and cans were meant for the city and it cost the city millions on a daily basis. Our state health system is on the verge of collapse because it is inundated by them.
Fourth, the state is driving out businesses with its higher taxes and workmen’s compensation system. (By the way, many illegals file for workmen’s compensation. There are mills that help them do it.)
Fifth, the educational system in the state is incapable of functioning. It churns out graduates who can’t read or write. (Never mind math competency) Higher education here has become a bastion of the left wing.
Other than that, its a great state.
NY Nick #69
Nicky, I know you. Not personally but, I have had to stand around at many an occasion in Westchester and Fairfield Counties. I have had to endure whole evenings of listening to insufferable ignoramouses who know more than me because they attended Hahvad, Yale or Brown. You all live in a little echo chamber that the rest of the country laughs at behind your back.
My in-laws are Wall Streeters with 7 figure salaries and 6 figure bonuses (I should say they “were”) If you think all of your paper shuffling jobs are coming back, guess again. The country doesn’t trust any of you. Many will not let you within a thousand miles of their savings. You’ve taken a torpedo below the water line, Nicky. Soon many people will realize that their only hope is to abandon the good ship NY, or hope that some of those pig killing and chicken raising operations can find a way to use all of your vacant office space.
Your rant is so typical of someone who knows little or nothing about the rest of the country that can’t be gleaned by cutting and pasting some government statistics.
Good luck with the rest of your soon to be miserable life.
NY Nick:
You are constantly harping on this “educational advantage” of the NE/Ivy gang over the rest of the country’s schools. Would you propose Caroline Kennedy as your exemplar of the superiority of the Hahvad Law School? I think that the school should establish a how to speak without saying “uh” and “you know” course. My alma mater has running backs that are more articulate than this liberal icon.
My third grade nun said that I spoke like a Philadelphia lawyer. It seems standards have declined in the last 50 years.
To Sam the Texan,
This is one Californian that you will never have to worry about moving to Texas. As someone who has traveled up and down highway 35 extensively, I can tell you for a fact that with the exception of Austin, Texas is one giant craphole. You could not pay me enough money to live in that God-forsaken part of the country. However, when you compare Texas to Oklahoma, I have to admit that you do have a reason to be happy.
IZONEGUY:
Unbelievable! THanks for your work.
I guess that we can see that NOAA is going to be leading the “global warming” charge for Obama and Algore now.
These guys have really thought this through. It’s frightening.
Thanks again.
Mike Roberts:
Speaking for all of the “Red State”, “Flyover Country” people I say thank you from the bottom of our hearts. You deserve what you have and you have no appreciation for quality when you are confronted with it.
I don’t live in Texas but, most of my business is conducted there. BTW, did you know that Texas was the only state in the union that experienced net job growth in 2008? Didn’t think so.
NY Nick may look down on the idiots who live and work in places not-fit-for-Ivy-Leaguers, but he can’t spell any better than he can understand the heart of America. He pretends to be a highly educated person and brags that his wife is a “principle.”
Would that be the principle of smug cluelessness, Nick? Or is that just you, and she represents some other principle of useful Obamadroid idiocy, like selective “tolerance and diversity?”
Just asking.
Will you red staters please shut up? Blue staters, stay where you are, you have it great. Leave us red states alone. There’s nothing good here in the red states. Nothing, nothing nothing, do you hear?
#201 NO PRISONERS, RE:NY NICK:We must be kind to little Nickie,if you were a village idiot,like Nickie in flyover country, you’d believe all the fraudulent propaganda about the greatness of NY city,to which you would emigrate and where you’d learn to endure and like living in squalid, tiny hovel like and superexpensive apartments, paying atrocious rents,tolerate appallingly bad sanitation,subway and police services,schhols that produce illiterate criminals(50% drop out rate,despite spending 15,000 per student).,all funded by horrendously high taxes. You’d feel good about being called sophisticated,and artsy,your moronic opinions would find widspread acceptance. You’d soon learn to tolerate” the high crime levels, the panhandling skells,The freakshow parade of self mutilated artsy (middle american emigree village idiots) types who disguise their mediocrity,with tattoos, piercings,and rudeness, the everpresent filth,noise and traffic; the never-ending destruction of neighborhoods,to make way for the luxury apartments of rich,liberal yuppies. You’d see a city talking liberal,and yet driven by relentless greed:Basically a playground for the rich who mouth liberal platitudes,an support destructive liberal social policies that hurt the middle and working class New Yorker but distracts attention fom their materialism while placating their guilty consciences. Yes, NY City,or as I prefer to call it,Peoples Republic of Manhattan, is a locus for loco liberalism’s failures. As some one who has lived in Paris, London, Madrid and other cities,I can tell you that NYC is a sewer among cities. Now let’s look at Nickie’s case; If I suspect, he’s slowly realizing that he owns nothing,despite working like a dog(because of confiscatory taxation),or if he does, he won’t be able to sell it for what he paid for,and is trapped in a hellhole,the shock has induced hysterical denial,manifested in truculent rantings highlighting false feelings of superiority over those benighted enough to live in flyover country.We must help him see the error of his ways, because as NYC,goes the way of Cleveland and Detroit,People like Nickie will have no choice but to join the legions of virulent,panhandlers infesting New York City.Pobrecito!
#206 RE:NICK PLEASE SEE ABOVE POST
These are the three things I remember about central Texas, which includes the Dallas/Ft Worth Metroplex all the way down to San Antonio: it’s hot , it’s flat and there is nothing to do, other than watch Friday Night high school football, get high on Oxycontin, and wait for the Rapture. In East Texas, a place called Longview, they have a competition every year called “Hands on a Hardbody”. Now with that title, you might think it would involve a stripper, but no, it involves about 20 toothless hillbillies trying to win a pickup truck by placeing their hand on the actual truck. Whomever takes their hand off last wins the truck. Check it out on You Tube if you want too see how red-staters enjoy life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzj-vb7Lj0A
Mike Roberts
Thanks for your warm descriptive of my home state. Though I live near Del Rio, my relations live in Austin. And they are awash with Libs from California….All come eastward seeking a Tuscan style villa in the Texas Hill Country. The Hill Country was our secret until Money magazine had a article stating real estate there was the bet bargain in Ameirca. “Fornios flew in by the plane load to snatch up acreage from Luling to Blanco. Even Johnson City, birthplace of a former President we’d rather forget, is becoming a suburb.
Shades of Barstow!!
The flood has gotten so large that Austin has a water shortage. Yep, you notice right away as you drive Hwy 290 going westward. All the home improvement places selling those green fiberglass cisterns. Lake Travis is at an all time low water level and the City of Austin cannot increase their water take from the edwards Aquifer.
This notion that the red states depend on the blue states for tax revenue is a total canard. Yes the blue states bring in more taxes, but since that is exactly what is hastening their collapse, it is hardly something to crow about. And a lot of what those taxes are being spent on are things that red-state types would be just as happy without.
Tax burdened citizens will continue to emigrate out of Blue States (California, for example), while the replacements will be low income, and therefore low tax-paying, immigrants. Meanwhile, the birthrates among the costal elites has so thoroughly flatlined that they won’t even have their own grandchildren’s taxes to support them. And even if they had those grandchildren, the entire welfare state mentality they themselves promoted absolves their own decendents from feeling any obligation to care for them.
Our only hope is that what has become of modern elitist liberalism dies out with their own demographic collapse.
United States? After reading all the rude comments here about each others states I fear that the collapse is coming. If we can not get along with each other we are playing right into Chinas hand they are waiting AN AMERICAN FOR THE UNITED STATES
Well, any blue staters coming to Georgia, please check any liberal tendencies you have at the door. The last thing red states need is their votes to muddy the waters. Blue state conservatives, of course, have a hearty welcome. Please bring your skills and work ethic and we’ll be tickled to have you.
Everyone thinking about moving, stay out of Texas. It’s not as great as you think…especially Californians eying the Austin area. Move along people, nothing to see here…
This seems to foretell the coming red State collapse.
As the “educated, upper-middle-class families from the high-tax urban” types move to red States they will tip the scales towards liberalism in those States.
Meanwhile, “mostly non- or minimal taxpayers who are newborns or immigrants, legal and illegal” will keep the blue States with their democrat pluralities, if not majorities.
Not much to look forward to in this news, for anyone.
Escaping Californians have already Californicated Oregon, Nevada and Washington.
Portland and Seattle are liberals as Reno which use to be a safe place to make fun of California. Now Nevada has found that taxes and lousy schools are important and they want more of them.
Pretty hard to beat the weather in the Bay Area – you can buy just about any kind of weather you want.
So sad that the liberals have killed the goldend state
Quote:21. robotech master:
The real question is will midwest states be legally allowed to pass laws that ban ppl from CA from buying houses in their states…hehe.
Feb 26, 2009 – 5:28 pm
Nah, just don’t let them *vote* in local elections for 5 years or so. AND they can’t have anything to say about schooling nor university policy for the same time. The “librulness” should wear off by then so’s they’d be normal. Five years of seeing normal folk should have SOME impact, no?
tom