MR. DRISCOLL: Hi, this is Ed Driscoll for Pajamasmedia.com, and we’re talking with Mark Steyn of National Review in the States, Macleans Magazine in Canada, frequent guest host for Rush Limbaugh, author of the New York Times bestselling 2006 book America Alone, and author of the brand new book, After America: Get Ready for Armageddon, now out at Amazon.com and your local bookstore, if you still have a local bookstore.
And Mark, thanks for taking the time to talk with us today.
MR. STEYN: My pleasure. And I think there are still a couple of local bookstores. I like the way Borders decided to close down rather than be faced with the indignity of stocking my book. Who can blame them?
MR. DRISCOLL: Well, Mark, your book arrived from your publicist on Wednesday. The next day the stock market dropped 512 points. The following day, America’s credit rating gets devalued by Standard & Poor’s. Now, that’s some serious publicity. How did you manage to pull that off?
MR. STEYN: Yeah, that is an ace publicist, to be able to arrange, on the weekend before launch, a 500 point drop in the stock market and the downgrade to AA status. You know, I mean, that’s the — that’s the difference between a skilled publicist just one of these inept types.
MR. DRISCOLL: And I swear, when I was at the gym on Friday night, on the TV monitors above the treadmill, on one monitor they had the 2002 Hollywood remake of H.G. Wells’ The Time Machine, and on the other, CNN — a CNN roundtable panel blaming S&P, the Tea Party and everybody but President Obama for ruining America’s credit rating.
MR. STEYN: Right, right.
MR. DRISCOLL: In After America, Wells’ futuristic race of “Eloi” play a prominent role. And in your book, who are the twenty-first century Eloi?
MR. STEYN: Yeah, I think — I think it’s interesting that — that Wells — because when you’re writing about a futuristic — even just futuristic by kind of mid-decade, which is really what After America is, because I don’t think we’re talking about the twenty-second century or even mid-century. I think we’re talking about 2015, by the time all this stuff starts to kick in.
But just to get a kind of feel of things, I went back and reread the big futuristic dystopian stuff, Orwell and Huxley, because these guys were pretty — they all saw elements that came to pass.
But the book that really tickled my fancy on that was H.G. Wells, The Time Machine, where he — his Victorian gentleman climbs on a time machine and propels himself forward 800,000 years, when mankind has divided into two species, this kind of soft, pampered, smooth, vegetarian elite, and then these dark, feral, unseen, Morlocks. And I think Wells was brilliant. The only thing he got wrong that it wasn’t 800,000 years in the future, it was basically the best part of a century in the future.
Because I think if you look at the kind of people who’ve run America into the ground and run most of the Western world into the ground, they are a soft, pampered, for want of a better word, metrosexual elite, who, like the Eloi, have lost all contact with the idea of how stuff is made, how stuff gets done, how things happen.
And this — in your great State of California, these people who somehow expect to continue to enjoy an advanced Western lifestyle, while voting to ban everything from the irrigation canals for their beloved arugula, to any new dam construction to deliver water to their homes, these people, like the Eloi, have lost all connection to how stuff gets made.
I love that line that Wells uses, which I quote in After America, “Futile prettiness”. Wells compares them to the sort of cattle lowing in the field and says, “Like the cattle, they knew no enemies, and like the cattle their end was the same.” And I think the Eloi and their sort of — our American Eloi and their appalling pampered complacency have done terrible things to this country.
MR. DRISCOLL: In The Time Machine the Eloi were transformed futuristic humans. And similarly, you have a chapter in After America that’s best summed up by a question that Thomas Friedman recently asked in a New York Times headline: Can Greeks become Germans?
MR. STEYN: Yeah, that was Thomas Friedman’s question: Can Greeks become Germans? I think the problem is, is that sufficient numbers of Germans have become Greeks, and sufficient numbers of Americans have also gone down that path.
I think — I think Thomas Friedman almost gets to something there. And it’s fascinating to me, by the way, because he’s the big globalization guru who thinks — who, for twenty years now, has been peddling a view of man as homo-economicus, that essentially, you know, if some guy in a — if you put a factory in the jungles of New Guinea, and fill it full of guys with grass skirts, then they start to look at things in the way that a mill worker in nineteenth century Massachusetts would.
And what that headline, “Can Greeks become Germans” tells us, is what Angela Merkel and German taxpayers well understand, is that the problem in Greece is not the Greek economy. The problem is the Greek people. And culture trumps economics. Culture trumps economics every time.
And that’s why the productive class in America, the people who go out to work every day, who want to build a business, they don’t have — they don’t want to do it through a get-rich scheme. They want to do it through going to work. They want to do it by making or selling a good product that people genuinely want.
And the government and the unproductive class, the government class and the dependent class, throw these huge obstacles in their path. And so — and so essentially, you have a productive class reeling under a backbreaking burden imposed on them by the government class and the dependency class. And eventually you get — reach the Greeks situation, where there’s simply — the other side is just too big and is too crushing. And like the Ancient Mariner, you’re staggering around with this huge great dead albatross of government around your neck, and you can never straighten up from it.
Mark Steyn is Canada’s most valuable export!
Riots arson and looting have spread in London on the 3 rd night of mob violence.
The riots tonight spread to the cities of Birmingham, Leeds and Glasgow.
At least in Glasgow the arsonists are not burning down the pubs.
The police are using Twitter, Blackberry and Facebook records to track down the rioters and the companies are cooperating with the police.
People around the world are seeing this escalating violence and may be rethinking any travel plans to London for the Olympic Games next year.
What a disaster and the Muslims have nothing to do with it and the Muslim areas in London,Birmingham and Leeds are peaceful.
oh, so the muslims had nothing to do with? why in the video I watched on YouTube, did they move from “No Tax, Free, Free” chants, to “Allahu Akbar, run you f*ckin cowards” and “Free, Free, Palestine”?
In the footage, quite a number of plainly Arab (by their dress code) and Muslim in general, men were seen yelling, cursing the police, and chasing the cops.
What a disaster and the Muslims have nothing to do with it and the Muslim areas in London,Birmingham and Leeds are peaceful.”
Of course the Muslim areas are peaceful. You don’t loot and burn the houses and shops of your fellow Muslims, that’s what the dhimmi’s are for!
Really? Really? Really? Has a bookstore ever been looted? Really?
Your comment needs more “reallys.” But here you go. And this bookstore with a blog was none too happy to be in the crossfire of London’s looters yesterday.
Nice jazz! Thanks!
Steyn calls them “Eloi” and ” metrosexual elite”. I just call them parasites.
In any rational and free society they should be known as “targets” and “corpses.”
I am in favor of both your terms. These are most appropriate.
I’ve been investing in precious metals. Brass, and lead!
I too have been saying it for some time…Ammunition is the precious metal of the future.
Adding steel and pig poop to your portfolio could truly diversify your investment strategy.
May I suggest O. F. Mossberg and Sons Inc., and Hodgdon Inc; RCBS or Hornady.
And don’t go “short”.
Actually, I only listen to Rush’s program when Mark is guest hosting. He’s 10 years younger than Rush – if Limbaugh ever decides to step down, I hope Steyn can have run of the show for at least a few years.
‘I hope Steyn can have run of the show for at least a few years.’
You really think we’ve got a few years ?
What incredible optimism
You’re due a major life adjustment,coming soon.
Steyn calls them “Eloi” and ” metrosexual elite”. I just call them parasites.
I agree. At least the Eloi were innocent and good-looking.
Urban leftards are the worst of both – Elois in productivity, and Morlocks in appearance and nature.
And our “Eloi” probably don’t taste as good.
23.40 Witnesses in Ealing say restaurants and a Tesco have been looted for alcohol and cash by a mob 100-strong. A man told the BBC cars have been smashed and set on fire. There are unconfirmed reports the local shopping centre has been set on fire.
23.25 BBC’s Sangita Myska reporting police are calling Lavender Hill area of Clapham, South London, a “no go zone.” Dozens of masked youths are arriving in cars for looting. Police are said to be heavily outnumbered, lacking riot equipment and telling locals to “get out the area”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687177/London-riots-live.html
The BBC is now calling for the Army to be deployed to control the violence
The BBC ! wants the Army on the streets of London—good idea–declare Martial Law and issue live ammunition with ROE to shoot looters and arsonist.
The presence of 100+ man mobs at least provides an excellent rationale for “normal capacity” 20 and 30 round magazines on my assault rifle, not that I needed that.
Hot burglary in the US is rare for a reason in the US.
If you’re looking to blog comments for original wit, well…..you might as well look to McDonald’s for their Prime Rib.
Bah, was supposed to be a comment to 10.
I like to think of conservatives as witty, clever, and original… except, that is, for the intellectual giants who insist on using those worn-out and juvenile invectives: libtards and leftards. Where are we exactly, 5th grade?
We have a war of ideas raging around us, but some of us are shooting blanks.
I like to think of liberals as unseated and removed from the levers of power whenever and wherever possible. I’m glad you think of us sometimes too, Mark.
A lefty friend who raged at me in emails and in person through much of the Bush years, whom I’ve maintained a sort of truce with since about 2007 — possible only since that corresponds with the Dem Congress takeover and subsequent Immaculation of the Once — stormed out of a private gathering this weekend in a huff after much clever use of terms such as wingnuts, teabaggers, and other examples of the new, civil tone your comment is, er, concerned with.
My friend is indeed a rabid ideologue, but he’s not stupid — he knows the whole hopey-changey house of cards is imploding and that this raging war of ideas you speak of is one his side is losing, and badly, and this has him madder than ever.
I shudder to think what the words President Palin would do for his blood pressure but the well-being of this nation is infinitely more important. Conquering the storm, air-lifting Marxism deep into the wilderness – perhaps, hopefully, forever — is crucial to our survival.
Mark sounds like a leftard seeking to use the ‘civility’ card.
Any conservative who thinks maintaining polite discourse wins leftists over is a fool, and the reason that conservatives always lose to the left-wing agenda.
He’s right, though. There’s no reason to use silly invectives like libtards and leftards when we have perfectly good English words like fools, idiots, and morons.
The last 2 minutes was brilliant where Steyn described the value and reasoning of the Tea Party in checking the Socialist wishes of Obama.
The New World Order: Changing The Conversation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLF_i8CbwHQ
“Happiness and moral duty are inseparably connected.” George Washington
The New World Order: Changing The Conversation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLF_i8CbwHQ
anyone else having trouble with the audio? Both the widget and the downloadable versions are only ~6 min long….
Hi Sid,
If you right click and save a copy of the audio to your HD, it should download the entire interview. I just tried it myself, and worked fine. But as I said, we should have a transcript of the entire interview online tomorrow.
Ed
I just tried to d/l the 19 MB version and only 6 MB came through. But the entire lo-fi version (6 MB) downloaded fine. I tried the 19MB version about an hour ago and only got 1MB. Windows XP SP3, FireFox 5.0.
I couldn’t stream it through Firefox, but now I’m streaming it through IE & it appears to work fine.
would that be the “brilliant” 5.0 version which turns an otherwise stable and reliable system into a volatile reboot-in-waiting?
There is a war but it has never been about ideas.
It is profit, market share, arbitrage, and derivatives. Left / Right mean nothing to these groups…they see the right and left wing as a means to an end, with willful ignorance making their job much easier.
The greatest shifting of wealth in USA was during the great depression, it is happening again while preoccupation with Socialism / Fascism hysteria focuses everyone attention.
16 Trillion dollars was loaned out by FEDS from 2007-2009…nobody knows where it went or who received it…but nobody should ask questions…lest we upset the Gods of our Money markets.
A stock market crash and a national credit downgrade as great publicity for a book? Well, maybe, but there have been better. Obama’s book tour ending in November of 2008 was pretty good too, but there were even better.
Adolph Schickelgruber had terrific PR, and a tour that began in the Rhineland, ran through Austria and the Sudetenland, then Poland, Norway, Holland, Belgium…. the list goes on and on. He had lots of people just dying to read his book.
As did Mohammed in the tour of his book in the 620′s. And that was before the papyrus-back edition, too.
I’ll agree you’re up there, Mark. It’s a really good try. But ya gotta know when you’ve been outclassed.
No matter whether I try to stream or download, I never get more than the first 15 sec. of intro music. What am I doing wrong?
I’m rendering out a YouTube version which should be online later tonight. Hopefully that will play on your system.
Just noticed that others have had similar trouble and tried Ed’s suggestions, to no avail. I don’t even get a download option when I right click, I get “Open link in new tab” “…new window”, etc. Still only between 3 and 16 sec. Dang, I’d love to hear this interview.
as it gets harder and harder to take the working class’ $$ and give it away to
the privileged leisure class, more and more violence will result. this entitled bunch in charge will try one idiot scheme (voter fraud, fairness doctrine, etc.) after another, and each time causing more and more hatred. all the while spurred on by our monarch wannabe, maybe hoping for a chance to declare martial law and not have to ever have another election? the socialists/marxists are starting to really believe they will lose the next election, bigtime. it only takes a few visits to a variety of random websites to see that the worm is turning. i read something the other day that i had long since forgotten.
the largest well armed standing army is still the American hunter; and, they are mostly right wing … whatever, and a large % are veterans. it wouldn’t even be a contest. thank God and our forefathers for the 1st and especially the 2nd Amendments to the Const. countries w/o gun rights, you may be really screwed. guns are easy to get for illegal purposes. he!!, we’ve even got some high up government officials here that will sell bad guys some serious military hardware. kypd.
Good music, great interview, fantastic blog. Thanks!
Don’t the Brits kind of deserve what they got? I mean, like, they gave up their girls, their guns, and their G0D?
Seriously, is anybody ready to divide this country yet?
I tried proposing the same question on Townhall a while ago and got back one response that said, “If we do that we’ll be giving them (the liberals) exactly what they want.” (God, no one can claim that jarheads exist only on liberal blogs.) And I suppose this is why I prefer Pajamas. Far better, well thought-out discussions and some pretty darn smacking writers. And at least a modicum of tolerance for libertarians–definitely not found at Townhall.
If people truely held the conviction of their beliefs, they would be all for creating a better world for themselves by splitting up the country and needn’t bother themselves with convincing others that they are wrong in order to reassure themselves of their own righteousness.
I’ve lived in very large and very liberal cities all my life and have learned one lesson well: You cannot convince a liberal of ANYTHING. They are incapable–read me well, INCAPABLE!–of modifying their beliefs. Its just the nature of the beast.
And I pose to you all that a belief that a country is stronger because it is large is gravely in error. A country is strong when its people share a culture and general consensus on how they should be governed. That is something to fight and die for, not supporting a media system and large portion of a public whose belief system does nothing but demonize pretty much everything you hold dear: morality (the very word makes a liberal tremble with anger), self-responsibility, self-control, the enlightenment, the scientific method, western culture, freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, freedom of religion (but only if you are a Christian), even democracy itself has come to be looked at with suspicion by the left, and–of course–patriotism.
In fact, there isn’t a single aspect of this country’s foundations that the left hasn’t demonized. Why would anyone defend a person or care about them as you would one of your countrymen when they wish to do nothing but undermine the lessons, values and culture taught to you by your parents based in a very old culture that you grew up loving and admiring?
Meanwhile, give the liberals exactly what they want: a world of their own. Watching what happened then would be nothing short of delicious.
This is extremely interesting to me. I agree with just about everything you say and yet I’m on the opposite of the political spectrum. Indeed, so much of what’s wrong with this country has to do with failures to believe in morality, self-responsibility, self-control, the enlightenment, the scientific method, and freedom of religion for all. However, I see these failings so pronouncedly in Republican leaders, in Tea Party rhetoric, and in corporate misbehavior. It is really a wake-up call to me to hear someone making the exact same complaints about left-wing beliefs as the complaints I make about right-wing beliefs.
Well, I hope I’m not gate-crashing by commenting here — was following a link passed along by a conservative friend.
There is a famous (already) picture on the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph of some young White guy obediently taking his clothes off at the command of some big buff Black guy who is looming over him.
Spot the Eloi. Trick question — it’s BOTH! The White guy lacks the means, the legal right (he’d go to jail for it) and the will to defend himself. The Black guy can only stick people up — that’s not a productive skill and one that will end as soon as the booze, drugs, and junk food make him too ill to stick people up. Blacks are also only 2% of Britain’s population, should the White natives decide to simply kick them all out there is not much they could do about it. It is not as if Blacks are native to Britain or have any claim upon it.
Both victim and victimizer are Eloi. Morlocks await, but recall those folks had technology (but no food). It would seem Enoch Powell was correct.
@DonM wrote–”Mark Steyn is Canada’s most valuable export!”
As a Canadian who reads Steyn’s brilliance daily on his excellent website etc, I would write, ” Mark Steyn is Canada’s most regrettable and unfortunate case of brain drain.”
While Mark inexplicably finds time in his busy schedule to shake up Canadian dolts and censors at times, I am glad he is enjoying so much success in the U.S. I just hope his intelligence and insights will assist your great country with its great people. I agree with Mark that the “free world” needs a healthy America not a bankrupt or weakened nation.
Your gain is our great loss.
Note- His website is understandably full of book promotions etc and is not in its usually informative and entertaining state. I will order After America today.