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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;When After All, It Wasn&#8217;t You Or Me</title>
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		<title>By: Pajamas Media &#187; PJM Political 11/7/09: Obama, Ayn, Caesar, Scozzafava!</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10956</link>
		<dc:creator>Pajamas Media &#187; PJM Political 11/7/09: Obama, Ayn, Caesar, Scozzafava!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10956</guid>
		<description>[...] Questions For James Lileks &#8212; including questions about the midterms and The Big Episode of Mad Men last [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Questions For James Lileks &#8212; including questions about the midterms and The Big Episode of Mad Men last [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rob De Witt</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10719</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob De Witt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10719</guid>
		<description>By the way, Mort Sahl also delivered the line &quot;The final headline of the San Francisco Chronicle will be &#039;World Ends - Women And Minorities Hardest Hit.&#039; &quot;

In the &#039;50s. Imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Mort Sahl also delivered the line &#8220;The final headline of the San Francisco Chronicle will be &#8216;World Ends &#8211; Women And Minorities Hardest Hit.&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>In the &#8217;50s. Imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: ak138</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10718</link>
		<dc:creator>ak138</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10718</guid>
		<description>&quot;He was young, vigorous, handsome, clever, witty (such a nice change from Eisenhower).&quot;

And knowing what we know now, who was the better man? Kennedy or Eisenhower? The fact that one was liked and respected (and you can hardly argue that Ike wasn&#039;t popular) by the people who made it through the Depression and fought WWII, and one was idolized as handsome and stylish by the spoiled youth culture of 1960s should tell you something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He was young, vigorous, handsome, clever, witty (such a nice change from Eisenhower).&#8221;</p>
<p>And knowing what we know now, who was the better man? Kennedy or Eisenhower? The fact that one was liked and respected (and you can hardly argue that Ike wasn&#8217;t popular) by the people who made it through the Depression and fought WWII, and one was idolized as handsome and stylish by the spoiled youth culture of 1960s should tell you something.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob De Witt</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10717</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob De Witt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10717</guid>
		<description>I think the time has come to get a little precision into the conversation.

While it&#039;s true that Mad Men is seen as, as you put it, another &quot;Boomer Victory Lap,&quot; simple math should make it apparent that it&#039;s not about the BoomyBabers. And no, I don&#039;t watch it.

C,mon, Ed, in 1963 the oldest Baby Boomer was 17 years old - and damn sure wasn&#039;t working on Madison Avenue. Talk to some people my age, born during WWII. The distinction between common sense and the Me Generation has never been subtle. Virtually anybody born before 1946 has a clear and well-focused vision of the difference between up and down - even though there are plenty of folks who are Lefties anyway in those generations.

The difference between us and the Boomers is that we were taught that it&#039;s a virtue to think for yourself, and not an abberation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the time has come to get a little precision into the conversation.</p>
<p>While it&#8217;s true that Mad Men is seen as, as you put it, another &#8220;Boomer Victory Lap,&#8221; simple math should make it apparent that it&#8217;s not about the BoomyBabers. And no, I don&#8217;t watch it.</p>
<p>C,mon, Ed, in 1963 the oldest Baby Boomer was 17 years old &#8211; and damn sure wasn&#8217;t working on Madison Avenue. Talk to some people my age, born during WWII. The distinction between common sense and the Me Generation has never been subtle. Virtually anybody born before 1946 has a clear and well-focused vision of the difference between up and down &#8211; even though there are plenty of folks who are Lefties anyway in those generations.</p>
<p>The difference between us and the Boomers is that we were taught that it&#8217;s a virtue to think for yourself, and not an abberation.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Driscoll</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10716</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Driscoll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10716</guid>
		<description>Phil,

&quot;I’m convinced JFK died at the hands of our National Security State operators, w/military &amp; intelligence community people orchestrating this black op. I still believe to this day that no one is safe as long as this crime remains covered up.&quot;

And yet you feel safe enough to discuss this topic openly on the Internet, &lt;a href=&quot;http://eddriscoll.com/archives/009531.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;much like&lt;/A&gt; the more recent 9/11 &quot;Truthers.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m convinced JFK died at the hands of our National Security State operators, w/military &amp; intelligence community people orchestrating this black op. I still believe to this day that no one is safe as long as this crime remains covered up.&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet you feel safe enough to discuss this topic openly on the Internet, <a href="http://eddriscoll.com/archives/009531.php" rel="nofollow">much like</a> the more recent 9/11 &#8220;Truthers.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Flashpoint</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10715</link>
		<dc:creator>Flashpoint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10715</guid>
		<description>New Flash.
Matt Weiner arrived on Planet Earth in 1965. This cinches the &quot;romanticized martyr&quot; allegory. &quot;Lost a father&quot; isn&#039;t the right characterization, Matt. Romanticized and elevated to martyr in a mass-consumption haze of the JFK legacy? Yes. Absolutely. 

It&#039;s not that complex. For us little kids in &#039;63, it&#039;s more accurate to say we &quot;lost our mothers&quot; for a short time. Much of MM&#039;s target demo today are boomers who were then pre-school, grade-school or junior high. I remember the funeral on TV, but don&#039;t distinctly remember any of the news coverage before it. I was too busy playing on the swingset in the backyard. But I distinctly recall Mom crying -- and it was distressing to me, because I couldn&#039;t validate her reasons for WHY. I didn&#039;t make sense to me. Death isn&#039;t something a kid crazily embraces like (American) adults who adore their martyrs and elevate them to hero status.

In the 60s, moms were the primary care-givers, dads disappeared for the whole day. So I&#039;ll argue that his mom &quot;losing it&quot; was imprinted on Matt Weiner&#039;s mind somehow, although he wasn&#039;t even a zygote when Dallas happened. But in many of the Boomers&#039; family annals: JFK is &quot;when Mom was crying and us little kids didn&#039;t understand it.&quot; JFK was many Boomers&#039; first encounter with grief. The Kennedy good looks and dreamy East Coast privilege absolutely entranced the bourgeoisie and martyrdom for 2-1/2 years was made complete.

Matt &quot;supposes&quot; that we lost a father then. Someone wants to assign a benchmarks for when this country began the journey of lost innocence. Let&#039;s hang it on JFK&#039;s assasination.

(BTW: When Jackie succumbed to cancer, it resurrected sorrows all over again. At age 66, it worked for my mom to revisit being the 35-year-old homemaker sobbing on the couch in front of the TV...all...over...again.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New Flash.<br />
Matt Weiner arrived on Planet Earth in 1965. This cinches the &#8220;romanticized martyr&#8221; allegory. &#8220;Lost a father&#8221; isn&#8217;t the right characterization, Matt. Romanticized and elevated to martyr in a mass-consumption haze of the JFK legacy? Yes. Absolutely. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that complex. For us little kids in &#8217;63, it&#8217;s more accurate to say we &#8220;lost our mothers&#8221; for a short time. Much of MM&#8217;s target demo today are boomers who were then pre-school, grade-school or junior high. I remember the funeral on TV, but don&#8217;t distinctly remember any of the news coverage before it. I was too busy playing on the swingset in the backyard. But I distinctly recall Mom crying &#8212; and it was distressing to me, because I couldn&#8217;t validate her reasons for WHY. I didn&#8217;t make sense to me. Death isn&#8217;t something a kid crazily embraces like (American) adults who adore their martyrs and elevate them to hero status.</p>
<p>In the 60s, moms were the primary care-givers, dads disappeared for the whole day. So I&#8217;ll argue that his mom &#8220;losing it&#8221; was imprinted on Matt Weiner&#8217;s mind somehow, although he wasn&#8217;t even a zygote when Dallas happened. But in many of the Boomers&#8217; family annals: JFK is &#8220;when Mom was crying and us little kids didn&#8217;t understand it.&#8221; JFK was many Boomers&#8217; first encounter with grief. The Kennedy good looks and dreamy East Coast privilege absolutely entranced the bourgeoisie and martyrdom for 2-1/2 years was made complete.</p>
<p>Matt &#8220;supposes&#8221; that we lost a father then. Someone wants to assign a benchmarks for when this country began the journey of lost innocence. Let&#8217;s hang it on JFK&#8217;s assasination.</p>
<p>(BTW: When Jackie succumbed to cancer, it resurrected sorrows all over again. At age 66, it worked for my mom to revisit being the 35-year-old homemaker sobbing on the couch in front of the TV&#8230;all&#8230;over&#8230;again.)</p>
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		<title>By: R. Dittmar</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10713</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Dittmar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10713</guid>
		<description>Far from being a &quot;father figure&quot;, I don&#039;t even think Kennedy was all that popular at the time of his death. After all that&#039;s the reason he was in Dallas in the first place - trying to scare up enough votes to win re-election. And remember what a squeaker the 1960 election was. Just a few thousand shady votes in Chicago sealed the deal for JFK over Nixon.

It hurts to say negative things about the man given the truly tragic circumstances of his death, but those glasses we use to look back on his term are far, far too rosy in color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Far from being a &#8220;father figure&#8221;, I don&#8217;t even think Kennedy was all that popular at the time of his death. After all that&#8217;s the reason he was in Dallas in the first place &#8211; trying to scare up enough votes to win re-election. And remember what a squeaker the 1960 election was. Just a few thousand shady votes in Chicago sealed the deal for JFK over Nixon.</p>
<p>It hurts to say negative things about the man given the truly tragic circumstances of his death, but those glasses we use to look back on his term are far, far too rosy in color.</p>
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		<title>By: Sheldon Gilman</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10712</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheldon Gilman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10712</guid>
		<description>I was not a child when Kennedy was assissinated, as many of the people who have commented on both your article and on the Mad Men episode were. The episode rang true to me in every respect except perhaps any comments about a &quot;father figure&quot;. Kennedy was anything but that. He was young, vigorous, handsome, clever, witty (such a nice change from Eisenhower). He was intelligent, appeared to be forthright, met the attacks on his Catholicism head-on, he was brave. We did not know the back stories that we think we know now. But we did know that both the assisination of Kennedy and the shocking shooting of Oswald interrupted what had become our cozy world in a shocking, sickening way. And yes, the news was on all the time--a way of bringing the country together and of showing what it meant to the news media and the country to have information, coverage, pictures, erudite discussions immediately available. 

Too bad some of the people who have commented here know nothing about the 60s or the assination but still feel it is their duty or their right to make immature, silly comments on your blog. Interestingly, I remember no silly or immature comments from TV during the Kennedy coverage. I guess the good old days are gone forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was not a child when Kennedy was assissinated, as many of the people who have commented on both your article and on the Mad Men episode were. The episode rang true to me in every respect except perhaps any comments about a &#8220;father figure&#8221;. Kennedy was anything but that. He was young, vigorous, handsome, clever, witty (such a nice change from Eisenhower). He was intelligent, appeared to be forthright, met the attacks on his Catholicism head-on, he was brave. We did not know the back stories that we think we know now. But we did know that both the assisination of Kennedy and the shocking shooting of Oswald interrupted what had become our cozy world in a shocking, sickening way. And yes, the news was on all the time&#8211;a way of bringing the country together and of showing what it meant to the news media and the country to have information, coverage, pictures, erudite discussions immediately available. </p>
<p>Too bad some of the people who have commented here know nothing about the 60s or the assination but still feel it is their duty or their right to make immature, silly comments on your blog. Interestingly, I remember no silly or immature comments from TV during the Kennedy coverage. I guess the good old days are gone forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10711</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10711</guid>
		<description>I was 11 years old at the time but remember it quite well.  Kennedy was no father figure in my family even though my mother was a devout Catholic.  My parents thought that Kennedy was a big step down from IKE.   And although they disliked him they had the common decency to mourn the passing of a President that was murdered by a communist punk.  The most accurate thing about this episode is that this event was all about television.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was 11 years old at the time but remember it quite well.  Kennedy was no father figure in my family even though my mother was a devout Catholic.  My parents thought that Kennedy was a big step down from IKE.   And although they disliked him they had the common decency to mourn the passing of a President that was murdered by a communist punk.  The most accurate thing about this episode is that this event was all about television.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/11/02/when-after-all-it-wasnt-you-or-me/#comment-10706</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/?p=24860#comment-10706</guid>
		<description>JFK was a hero to me much as Mickey Mantle &amp; the NY Yankees were. Like Officer Joe Bolton, Sandy Becker, Chuck McCann, Soupy Sales, &amp; other hosts of local tv shows for kids my age, it seemed JFK was on TV ALL the time, &amp; his press conferences were must see TV in my home. He was quick on his feet, seemingly never at a loss when responding to a question, confident &amp; in chargs, &amp; it was clear he had a hell of a sense of humor. The fiction that is Oswald as lone gunman fooled the naive me back in 1963, but I&#039;ve wisened up since then &amp; no longer believe in that or the many other fictions that have come down the pike in the ensuing years. I&#039;m convinced JFK died at the hands of our National Security State operators, w/military &amp; intelligence community people orchestrating this black op. I still believe to this day that no one is safe as long as this crime remains covered up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JFK was a hero to me much as Mickey Mantle &amp; the NY Yankees were. Like Officer Joe Bolton, Sandy Becker, Chuck McCann, Soupy Sales, &amp; other hosts of local tv shows for kids my age, it seemed JFK was on TV ALL the time, &amp; his press conferences were must see TV in my home. He was quick on his feet, seemingly never at a loss when responding to a question, confident &amp; in chargs, &amp; it was clear he had a hell of a sense of humor. The fiction that is Oswald as lone gunman fooled the naive me back in 1963, but I&#8217;ve wisened up since then &amp; no longer believe in that or the many other fictions that have come down the pike in the ensuing years. I&#8217;m convinced JFK died at the hands of our National Security State operators, w/military &amp; intelligence community people orchestrating this black op. I still believe to this day that no one is safe as long as this crime remains covered up.</p>
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