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Dr. Helen

June 7th, 2013 - 6:39 am

From the Atlantic: When Men Experience Sexism” (Hat tip: Via Meadia blog):

There are some practices and policies that are unfair to men. But this fact should unite men with feminists, not drive them apart. …

“For me,” Heather McRobie wrote in an excellent 2008 article about genercide, “feminism has always been about how rigid gender roles harm everyone, albeit primarily women.” Talking about sexism against men is often seen—by MRAs and feminists alike—as an attack on feminism. But it shouldn’t be. Rather, recognizing how, say, stereotypical ideas about domesticity hurt men in custody disputes as well as women in the job market should be a spur to creating alliances, not fissures. Women have been fighting against sexism for a long time. If men can learn from them, it will be to everyone’s benefit.

The comments to this piece are interesting, particularly the comments from men: they range from asking where their reproductive rights are to discussing how organizations like NOW are blocking men’s groups and politician’s abilities to change alimony and custody laws.

Why would men join in with these feminists? Would you? Until these organizations change their tune and stop the entitlements to women, why join in?

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All Comments   (11)
All Comments   (11)
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Feminism is based on the idea that women were, and still are, persecuted for being women, and that “someone” had to be the persecutor… men. This permits displaced anger to be focused into hatred against men (their persecutor).

Now, if men are being persecuted for being men, who could the persecutor be?

“How can that be? We (women) are being persecuted!”

Stereotypical feminist will not accept that men are being treated unfairly, because that would mean that women are causing or doing the persecution. That in turn causes a fundamental conflict with “it’s OK to hate men because they are the evil persecutors of women”.

A paradigm shift of some significant proportions is required before this conflicting situation can be truly addressed.
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
Men should find an ally in feminism. What? Feminism is the enemy, at least Feminism as it is now. Let's put it this way: What percentage of the people active in Feminist organizations are lesbians? I bet it's a big chunk, way out of proportion to their numbers in society. Would make a nice study, no?
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
"Why would men join in with these feminists?" Because they're being "paid" to, that's why. Helen, you may not like the decisions that these men are making, but you have a different incentive structure than they do.

You seem stuck on the fight-aggressively strategy. At the risk of generalizing and stereotyping, I'd have to classify that as a chick thing. Another possible strategy is for men to have as little to do with women as possible, or at least restrict ourselves to what we consider high benefit, low cost interactions. Sorry if you don't like that strategy.
45 weeks ago
45 weeks ago Link To Comment
"You seem stuck on the fight-aggressively strategy. At the risk of generalizing and stereotyping, I'd have to classify that as a chick thing."

Fighting aggressively is a "chick thing?" Who knew?

I understand the sentiment you have that men withdraw from women, my book discusses that as an option so I am not sure why you seem to think that I don't like that strategy. However, as the saying goes, "You may not care for war but war cares for you." The legal climate may not allow you always to opt out. That is why some of the draconian laws and regulations need to be changed.
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
OK, I made a lousy choice of words. But every time men criticize female behavior, hordes of self-righteous, hypocritical bitches go all dramatic and say that it's male behavior that has to change. Some have even suggested that men should all be killed. Hmmm, let me think about that for a while.

Anyway, you could have named your book "Welcome to the American Feminazi Police State", but you didn't.
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
No problem, I just wanted to clarify that I am not the enemy, and that what you describe is not alien to me or to the information in the book. A lousy choice of words? Perhaps, or maybe frustration at the lack of understanding of women on the part of men. I get that.
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
I absolutely agree.

Sometimes it's not even a bad thing that has to be fought against - women's behavior is their behavior. I don't have to listen to crap in my own home.
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
Feminism = misandry. It's that simple.

The Suffragette movement was about equality, and deservedly so. There is no reason why in a modern society women should not have the right to vote, have equal education, equal opportunity, equal employment, and equal pay. The problem is that women don't work as hard as men. They want time off, maternity leave, etc. Men bust their butts for their job.

Feminism is about superiority. All men are worthless, all men are rapists, and on and on. This is what the War on Boys is all about. This is why the education system is so corrupted. And the media is complicit in it, as are the politicians.

The only male response to a feminist is to ignore her completely. Let her buy her own house. She has an education, she has a job, she has a career, she earns a salary, so let her buy her own house.

She wants to go out, have dinner? Fine. She wants to have sex? Great. Take her to a hotel.

Do not take her back to your place. And whatever you do do not go over to her place. Take her to a hotel.

At some point, women will figure out that all they're worth is dinner, drinks and a hotel room for a night. 50% is out of the question. Presumptive paternity is way out of the question. No fault divorce, abortion on demand, are non-negotiable.

When women realize that, feminism in its current form will be over.

The Suffragettes had an argument. Feminists have a complaint. The Suffragettes won their argument. The feminists are still complaining.

So, they only solution for a man is to ignore them completely. Focus on your own life, man. Get an education, or some training, get a job, and do your work. Buy your own house or rent an apartment.

As far as women goes, hey, take her out to dinner or for some drinks, then take her to a hotel room. And in the morning, disappear. That's the way modern relationships work.
45 weeks ago
45 weeks ago Link To Comment
The Suffrage movement was NOT about equality. The Suffrage movement was about women (specifically wealthy white women) gaining the privilege to vote without losing any of their traditional female privileges, such as not having to go to war. For example, the famous Suffragette Parkhurst worked on the "White Feather Campaign" which shamed young men (who didn't have the right to vote either) into enlisting in WW1.
44 weeks ago
44 weeks ago Link To Comment
I agree with your assessment of this “Feminism fighting for men’s rights� claim is highly superficial and has no real traction in the real world where rights and privilege play out their destructive dance. Since Lindy West’s article on Jezebel, there’s been a fury of responses explaining to her that fighting for women’s rights and against patriarchy doesn’t mean you’re advocating for men’s rights by some technical default or proxy. I would imagine that all this buddying up talk with Feminist has MRA’s quite suspicious. Even if there was some uneasy peace achieved between Feminist and MRA’s, I’m sure the MRA’s would want to voice their own discord when it comes to men’s rights. I can’t imagine they would want it distilled through the lens of Feminism, or even women pretending to understand the plight of men.
West’s article states that Feminism has fought for men’s right all along we’re just too stupid to realize it. Of course we all know the reality, and NOW’s track record, but let’s pretend we’re all idiots for a moment. If men’s rights were a real concern of Feminism, then Feminists did a lot of “looking the other way� while men’s rights were being eroded. Perhaps they’re conserving their effort for much larger battle in the future… right!!!

45 weeks ago
45 weeks ago Link To Comment
15 minutes ago the Feminist hive consensus was that men had no issues, ever, being privileged dominators of wymyn everywhere. So I consider this progress even though they are still dishonest, mendacious supremacists.

Men's rights advocates may be able to collaborate with some Feminists, but not if they are going to march under the banner of Feminism. Many Feminists are genuinely egalitarian, but they are in deep denial about their movement and it is long past time they either reform, or leave, their movement.

A man collaborating with Feminism is a man collaborating in his own degredation.
45 weeks ago
45 weeks ago Link To Comment
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