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Dr. Helen

April 24th, 2013 - 8:10 am

Vox Day at Alpha Game Blog: “Every time you keep your head down in order to avoid trouble, you are collaborating with the enemy. Every time you keep your mouth shut because you think, just maybe, silence will improve your chances of getting laid, you are collaborating. Every time you meekly submit to your wife instead of providing her with the leadership she craves, you are collaborating.  Those who refuse to fight back are not brave, they are not being manly for suffering in silence, they are short-sighted cowards who have betrayed both their sex and their society.”

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I don't know, I see a bit too much tough-guy blustering there for my tastes.

One example is to "give your wife the leadership she craves". The problem is that if she isn't craving it on that day, you may well wind up in a jail cell or at the very least humiliated by her. She has an entire army on remote control (initiation code on any cell phone: 9-1-1).

Sometimes the only rational course is to disengage. Don't pick a fight you are not going to win.

My solution of not getting married is too extreme for many, but if you got married, then deal with the consequences. One of which is that she has a bigger stick than you in reality.

It's also interesting that there are no psychological studies I am aware of as to why women seem to irrationally like to oppose their husbands/boyfriends just for the fun of it. That really exists, and if you are married to such a woman - or even going out with a woman like that and can't get away from the relationship - I pity you.

And then there's Travis Alexander. Even getting away from her didn't help him.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
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The deck is stacked against men these days. I'm on the Upside of 50 so....

For example in the VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) laws which tilt laws towards women and when a woman is abusive, mentally or physically, she know she can get away with it with one 911 call and claiming Domestic Violence. They even use it as a Control Threat against their "man" and then further abuse him knowingly...

This is not always the case of course but there is a Large Number of such cases and well documented. The fact that a Man may be able to get out from that, if they are married & have common property or god forbid children he is seriously at odds and will surrender to any demands made, out of fear. But then she could also re-actively charge him with DV and does not need evidence, proof, witnesses or anything and it could be even 10 years previously... How does HE defend against that ? Not Possible unless she picks a date when he was out of town and can prove it, which is highly unlikely.

Custody battles can bring out the worst... Parental Alienation, getting young children to make accusations, forwarding false accusations of child abuse... the list is endless.

The System is broken and the male figure is impotent and devalued in "marriage & relationships" because of these issues. Marriage has become nothing more than a commercial enterprise for that "Fairly Tale" fantasy and after that it's just another day. Common-Law relationships even carry similar hazards and worst of all... Women lose out on something really important in a balanced life.

One Psychiatrist published some article a few years back (I forget where I saw it) but it struck me as the most sensible one I've seen in ages. Paraphrasing :
Today we are seeing the children of broken homes & dysfunctional families as Adults, creating families and having children without any model for functionality & cooperativeness. The Broken are creating the Broken and cannot comprehend their errors or the causes and forge ahead saying how everything is broken without any understanding of the failure.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
SORRY... The above is a DUPLICATE response, for some reason MSIE did not refresh and seemed my posting had vanished. APOLOGIES !
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
This discussion is informed by reading the entire Vox Day note. Here is the second paragraph. In two parts. Part one:

"This is the connection between Game and the refounding of Western Civilization. Demographics is destiny. Some form of the traditional order will eventually reassert itself; the unsustainable society is destined to collapse. But those of us, male and female alike, who wish to live in a civilized society have got to stop collaborating with those who are seeking, consciously or unconsciously, to destroy it."

This provides an entirely richer context for the quoted first paragraph, above.

In other words, Day, a serious Christian, presents a moral dilemma to resolve: what is the cost of "collaboration?" Who are the collaborators? What is collaboration? By implication, we may assume given his faith, he is asking one also, "What is the cost of discipleship?"

While I would hate to be on Dr. Helen's sh**list, it does appear that she does not view "change from within" as collaboration; most men who have been through the meat grinder, however, that is the current academy, the progressive corporation, or the child services and family law gestapo, struggle to see opportunities for "speaking up" in order to change anything from "within." "Speaking up" has the same utility function as "remove Glock 19 from drawer. Begin shooting foot and move upward until dead."

Bonhoeffer, to continue with a Christian reference, did not "collaborate" with his enemies by returning to Germany; his was a profound dissension, as he exerted his moral difference through assertion of an entirely separate civilization, the Christian civilization and order that Vox Day references. He did not take a job as a house chaplain for the Gestapo. He preached until they hanged him. It turned out that, for Bonhoeffer, the Cost of Discipleship (I commend the book) was death on earth. While still breathing he constructed, within the hell of the Nazi Germany, a functional model of dissent that lives for all of us, today, through his example and writings.

51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Part two:

For me, the key insight that Day provides is not contained in Dr. Helen's excerpt. The excerpt, as we see below from jmarie, can be reduced immediately to some insipid B.S. about "standing up for yourself", as though jmarie is some arbiter of manliness, and presumably wants her man to get the crap kicked out of him if some thugs look at her funny in a bar or give the ignorant traffic cop major crap if he makes an unconstitutional stop. To be worthy of jmarie, evidently, a real man gets his head split open by thugs, or gets himself arrested for 'interference with official acts' by quoting the fourth amendment to a gun-wielding uniformed thug. She identifies, in other words, not with her man but the thugs who have already won. "Be a thug" is the implication of her comment.

Rather, the key text from Day is "the unsustainable society is destined to collapse. But those of us, male and female alike, who wish to live in a civilized society have got to stop collaborating with those who are seeking, consciously or unconsciously, to destroy it."

In other words, imo, if you want to collaborate, play by the institutional rules that now exist, that are enforced by the State, and are enforced in pitiless fashion by people who will laugh out loud if you ask them to consider an alternative point of view. These people are not good faith searchers for a higher order; they have one goal, which is power, they have achieved their unthinking powers now, and they ground their power via their usurpation of once-civilized institutions. You are serving them, not Day's "civilized society", by granting them any moral standing whatsoever. You are collaborating, not practicing any form of discipleship (again, as Day frames matters), by destroying yourself.

The narcissistic cri de coeur that Grossman delivered last week is a great example; because she wants to retain her membership in the broken feminist nomenklatura, she advocates a "change from within" approach -- she validates the very system that she, and her ilk, created. That's the system that has now marked her son for life. Were she sincerely concerned about her son, instead of asserting her Shock! Shock! that her own world is hostile to her son's very existence, she would have outed and shamed her son's tormenters. Her son, iow, is just a prop for her own musings about her moral superiority. It's disgusting. But she's "working within the system."

I see no reason to prop up inhumane systems through reasoned engagement. There is no reasoned engagement with someone pointing a gun at your head. Bonhoeffer did not engage his captors in reasoned engagement. Providing an example of moral behavior, in life and work, is an act of productive engagement. That can only be accomplished outside, not within, our broken culture.

That is what people like Day do, whether it is in his commentaries or within his uncompromising interviews with the beta, unthinking tools of the matriarchy. He doesn't participate in media in such a manner that he is destroyed by them. Let this broken "unsustainable society" collapse of its own contradictions (contradictions neatly summarized by jmarie).

Only an idiot "stands up for himself" in a bar fight he cannot win, and only an idiot, even if he knows he can win the bar fight, thinks he will have won anything at all in doing so. He will yield to the bad guys his conscience, he will forfeit his moral standing. Better to find a better bar, and let the one that caters to thugs collapse. Let it all fall down on its own; it will. No amount of feminist indoctrination is going to make men dumb enough to march meekly to their ends just because Lena Dunham gets a TV show on which to play an Oberlin-educated professional stripper. Be a witness, not a collaborator. Very few women want to be, at age 25, 35, or anytime, Hannah Rosin or Naomi Wolf. They'll be back if there is a reasonable alternative. Bonhoeffer's behavior and work survives his killers.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
This quote is right on the money with regards to relationships. Women lose respect for men who won't stand up for themselves.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
That's the symmetry of nature, jmarie. Once you're on the bad side of 40, no one cares who you respect or don't respect.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
True, but it happens on the good side of 40 to men who won't stand up for themselves for fear of upsetting the 'queen'. Many men put themselves in that position and then blame the women in their lives for taking away their freedom, or whatever it is they feel they've had to give up. Men who act as equals and not victims are happier.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
OK... so when a Man stands up and won't be belittled, threatened, or abused physically or mentally what does he do when she calls the Domestic Violence Police into play ? He's AUTO-POOCHED !

This happens a LOT and he then has to defend himself under the assumption of being "Guilty till proven More Guilty" and she does not even need one single shred of proof, evidence, or anything.

Furthermore, many women who are in the wrong and know it, use THAT as a threat to gain compliance and submission of their "man" and then denigrate him for complying.

Happened to several fellows I know in USA & Canada, INCLUDING MYSELF. The Younger men in the world have this fact dialed in as well and why many won't get married and even fearful of relationships after having one or two earlier ones where they got out unscathed.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
I know, I get it! It's happened to friends of mine, too. I tell my sons regularly how they need to protect themselves. However, men to to accept that they help dig their own graves by choosing to associate with the women they choose. Unless and until that happens, there can be no solution (except checking out of relationships all together).
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Sure, in that sense I agree with you. Men should not take crap from women. An escalating situation of the "man standing up for himself" against the wife or girlfriend is not going to end in any good way for him, though. He should get away from the woman and ideally hasn't made the huge mistake of marrying her or being committed to her.

There is another sense your statements can be taken, though. That is the woman passively getting all the benefits of some hothead "standing up for himself" against other thugs. He is eventually going to be hurt, killed or jailed, but the woman gets a protective pitbull in the meanwhile. I really hope you don't mean it that way.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
No, I don't mean it that way!
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Sounds like he better constantly be "on", otherwise her royal highness shall not be amused.

It kind of all evens out, because men lose respect for women when they invariably start sagging and have nothing else to offer because that's all they have ever used to get men.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Nice cop out. It's not about being 'on' it's about standing up for yourself. Many men cave and give in in the name of 'peace' but the reality is it's a giant cop out. It's easier to give in than advocate for what he wants, or just do what he wants in spite of her, and he can then play victim of 'the wife'. I see it all the time. Men cave and cower, and women lose respect for them.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
I'll use my brother as an example. He had some problematic behavior (I'll skip the details) and his wife kicked him out of the house. I told him "Don't you DARE leave. Why doesn't she leave?" He took my advice and stayed and leveled the playing field, so to speak, with regards to respect. He's still there and they've worked it out. Another friend going through a divorce was told to leave, and I gave him the same advice, "Why should you leave?" He cares for the kids as much as she does. So he stayed and is now on more equal footing in divorce proceedings. Bottom line, men need to say NO to unreasonable demands.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Some women will simply escalate and push buttons until the man does something. She has impunity in many cases (although this is changing a bit) to flick her fingers in has face, belittle him, humiliate him or even slap him or throw things at him. He cannot respond, but even no response may provoke a false accusation (he's taking too long to give her the upper hand by responding, so she's forced to get proactive).

Who would want to live like that - taking that crap - day after day after day after day. Frankly, moving out of the house (even if she gets the house because of that) may be the only sane thing to do.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
This is exactly what happened to me. I stood up to my wife all the time. The problem is, she liked to fight! She also has to be generally in control of everything around her. I learned finally, that there is no living with it, and no fixing it. It is just some kind of psychological disorder. IOW, she is kinda crazy. Best to diagnose, before you decide to stand and fight.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
The joke is that on top of the crap, the man is usually paying for some sit-on-her-fat-ass woman.

You have to let that digest slowly: A woman is acting like a child, passive aggressively baiting a man, and the man is paying everything for this dumb c#nt with his hard work.

Unbelievable what men let women get away with, and unbelievable how entitled and arrogant modern women are.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
I know some women are like that, and some men are as well. However, many men help 'create' that dynamic by being passive because they don't want to 'deal with it' (read: advocate for themselves) and they need to own it and stop playing victim. Also, they need to choose more wisely in the first place. That's a huge part of it. I should know, I chose poorly!

51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Oh, so it's back to "men need to choose more wisely".

No, men need to not choose at all ... and to choose not to get married.

That is truly the only way to prevent women from completely dominating your life.

And to the people who think it's some kind of far-out notion (not to get married): Wait until you are over 50 years old. In my case, I started seeing women for what they were: Some good ones with some intellect who I like to talk to (who could nevertheless still do damage in a relationship) ... and a WHOLE LARGE MASS of utterly useless POSs who are manipulating with sex.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Well, you sure sound like a prize.

Yes, men need to choose more wisely, and if that means staying single then by all means do so, but when men marry the wrong women and ended up in horrible marriages with manipulative bitches, they need to have the guts to admit their part in their poor choice instead of just claiming victimhood.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Saying that I "sure sound like a prize" is setting yourself up as the arbiter of my worth.

Can you friggin' get any more entitled than to make a statement like that? You, a vagina owner, are the final and conclusive judge of my worth based on your apparently unlimited sense of entitlement as a woman.

Any man who lets himself into some relationship - even worse marriage - with harridans like you is just asking for it. There we kind of agree. I disagree with any man stooping low enough to deal with trash like that.

You, as a man, will just spend the rest of your life in drama and accusations and spinning and family court and reunifications and more drama. And you will pay for it all, as she sits on her fat ass.

Holy crap. Just don't get married. The divorce rate doesn't say it all, because lots of men who are going to stay married (for fear of getting raped by the family court) are certainly not happy. Lots of them look forward to death.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Day is correct, as far as he goes. However, in conflict situations, "speaking up" is, or is not, the same as committing suicide. A special operations platoon does not "speak up" when confronted with 1,000 vicious opponents; even less so when the opponents are armed.

If the implication of the epigraph, here, is that separating oneself from the kangaroo courts and armies of vicious mysandrists, in order construct relationships and personal assets (i.e., reservoirs of personal agency and freedom) is somehow unmanly, fine. But I have better things to do, and better people to serve, than "speak up" every time some nitwit crypto-fascist with a menstrual cycle deploys the full power of the state against anyone with a Y chromosome. It's too late for that. They have already taken over. We are now competing as moral and intellectual insurgents. Insurgents do not succeed by rushing fortified positions while being outnumbered; they don't fight decisive battles when the outcome is already known. Suicide is not a tactic or even a strategy.

A Pew study this year showed that 3.5 times as many men, aged 30-50, have opted out of marriage as a goal, as have women. (27% - 8%.) One would have to deny the wisdom of markets and individual choice to suggest that they do not know why they are doing that.

It's really not a very complicated process that we are watching: the world that the feminists have built is little different than the bucolia that progressive politicians have brought to the inner city. Now, a functioning family could "speak up" and move into some hellhole of public housing, but are they really either weak or foolish for preferring to live in the exurbs, where the murder rate is 1/100th? Separation is not capitulation.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Alas, there are times when you cannot win. Speaking up in college can get you results ranging from poor grades to being expelled and put in prison, and there are very few avenues of recourse. Speaking up in the military is worse. You will get disciplined and there is no recourse available.

I have spoken up while working a government job. I said the truth, everyone agreed on that, but I made the woman feel uncomfortable and unhappy. I'm still here, but a grade lower and with a 25% pay cut. Speaking truth to power can carry a high price.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
I don't know, I see a bit too much tough-guy blustering there for my tastes.

One example is to "give your wife the leadership she craves". The problem is that if she isn't craving it on that day, you may well wind up in a jail cell or at the very least humiliated by her. She has an entire army on remote control (initiation code on any cell phone: 9-1-1).

Sometimes the only rational course is to disengage. Don't pick a fight you are not going to win.

My solution of not getting married is too extreme for many, but if you got married, then deal with the consequences. One of which is that she has a bigger stick than you in reality.

It's also interesting that there are no psychological studies I am aware of as to why women seem to irrationally like to oppose their husbands/boyfriends just for the fun of it. That really exists, and if you are married to such a woman - or even going out with a woman like that and can't get away from the relationship - I pity you.

And then there's Travis Alexander. Even getting away from her didn't help him.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
"It's also interesting that there are no psychological studies I am aware of as to why women seem to irrationally like to oppose their husbands/boyfriends just for the fun of it."

And why men are so attracted to women with that personality trait?
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
It is interesting that there are no studies on it. There is a fair bit in the Bible about it though. 8)

Trey
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Well, you and waxwing can hash that out.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
Well said. The deck is stacked against men these days. I'm on the Upside of 50 so....
For example in the VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) laws which tilt laws towards women and when a woman is abusive, mentally or physically, she know she can get away with it with one 911 call and claiming Domestic Violence. They even use it as a Control Threat against their "man" and then further abuse him knowingly...

This is not always the case of course but there is a Large Number of such cases and well documented. The fact that a Man may be able to get out from that, if they are married & have common property or god forbid children he is seriously at odds and will surrender to any demands made, out of fear. But then she could also re-actively charge him with DV and does not need evidence, proof, witnesses or anything and it could be even 10 years previously... How does HE defend against that ? Not Possible unless she picks a date when he was out of town and can prove it, which is highly unlikely.

Custody battles can bring out the worst... Parental Alienation, getting young children to make accusations, forwarding false accusations of child abuse... the list is endless.

The System is broken and the male figure is impotent and devalued in "marriage & relationships" because of these issues. Marriage has become nothing more than a commercial enterprise for that "Fairly Tale" fantasy and after that it's just another day. Common-Law relationships even carry similar hazards and worst of all... Women lose out on something really important in a balanced life.

One Psychiatrist published some article a few years back (I forget where I saw it) but it struck me as the most sensible one I've seen in ages. Paraphrasing :
Today we are seeing the children of broken homes & dysfunctional families as Adults, creating families and having children without any model for functionality & cooperativeness. The Broken are creating the Broken and cannot comprehend their errors or the causes and forge ahead saying how everything is broken without any understanding of the failure.
51 weeks ago
51 weeks ago Link To Comment
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