Ami,
You’ve basically “cherrypicked” the sayings from the Koran and the Sirah and haven’t bothered to include what is said around the verses and in which context they are used. I admit it is all a bit violent for my tastes, but then the Old Testament, which is a collection of Jewish writings if I understand correctly has some pretty nasty things to say concerning the “others” as well. In no case though do they use the words monkey etc. as you indicated above.
You’ve accused the Muslims as being responsible for the Plague and economic down turn in the Fertile Crescent and Europe. If you look at your history and go back to Kublai Khan’s reign in China, you’ll find out where came from and how it spread. Don’t blame the Muslims for this! Also keep in mind that today there is plenty of climatic evidence to suggest a “mini-ice age” occuring around that time which added to the problems.
Next you seem to confuse Muslims with Arabs. Not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslims. Certainly, not all are enemies, most are folks that if left alone and treated as they felt was fair would probably just raise their kids and work and fight with their wives just as is the case with most “little people” on the face of the earth.
Finally, if you want to hold up things that a people, any people have suffered, Jews included, as something special or more to the point especially specific to that group, it cannot be something that many many others have endured as well. Basically, if you decide to hold something up as “special” to a group of people, it should be something that only that group dealth with or if you wish to mention it, include the others that have endured it as well. A half truth, especially in as emotional a setting as this problem, only leads people to incorrect assumptions. It is false advertising if you will. You seem to have a penchance for holding up things as “Jewish” that have been suffered by many other people, which is why I continually point this out. The Holocaust is an exception (in my view) of an example of a group, the Jews, that suffered something specific to their group. This of course is from a Western perspective only. Other cultures looking at this event ask somewhat incredulously, “why didn’t they fight back?” Thus put little importance on the event!
The objective of my discourse is and has been to lay, at the feet of Europe, the modern day problems in the Middle East and the support Europeans gave to the Zionist Leadership from the end of the 19th century through to today. Yes, certain US interests were involved, but nothing like the scale (in the early 20th century) of how the Europeans were involved. I state and maintain based on the writings of many, that Europe agreed to all this because they didn’t want Jews on their “territory.” Summing it up as a question, why couldn’t Jews be left reasonably unmolested in Europe? This problem has cost us all.
Back several posts ago or so, you mention and I mention the “return” of Jewish people throughout the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere after the 1948 war for independence. These people had generally lived quite successfully in their respective areas for centuries. Yes, they did endure, on occasion, having to be targets of local hatred, but nothing on the scale the Europeans, Eastern Europeans, and Russians committed. Of course at the end of the 1948 war, they were given additional incentive to leave! The Arab nations counter to the establishment of the State of Israel were angry and as usual the innocent folks having nothing to do with it now started to be looked at as targets of this anger. There were segments of these communities of Jews, and some continued to (right up to this day) continue to live in the Arab lands in which they had for those centuries. The Ben Ezra Synagogue in Cairo is an example of this. They NEVER left for the “return.”
Other points are, no Passports are NOT stamped for aircrews, and when I did travel to Israel in the days AFTER the ’67 war, I just went through Cyprus and had the Israeli immigration officials stamp a piece of paper with the seal on the way in and out, thus no record of my having been to Israel was evident when I returned to an Arab country, but this was only necessary AFTER the ’67 war.
If you are interested, look up the old British NAAFI headquarters building if it still stands in Jerusalem and you’ll find out about the school I spoke of.
The point about the Museum is that we here in the US are paying for the support of Israel and not just directly! I’m grumbling about the fact that is seems pointless after so many years of trying, but NO one can say that the US doesn’t have Israel’s back! You need only go back to the Yom Kippur war in ’73 to see this in a very direct manner. Elements of the 82nd Airborne were “on the ramp” in the Azores, in the event the IDF couldn’t handle the situation by itself. We had our targets and drop zone specified and it was in Jordan! Interestingly, about a year and a half later, King Hussein of Jordan showed up at Ft.Bragg, North Carolina and toured the 82nd and did push-ups with us! Mmmmm, seems like maybe the King wasn’t all that unfriendly to Israel inspite of having to look like it in public!
Again, to reinterate, I’ll keep my opinion that the troubles in the Fertile Crescent are a direct result of European meddling and European Governments inability (or unwillingness) to stop the mistreatment of the Jewish Europeans within their borders for a long long time leading up to and culminating in the Holocaust. True it wasn’t all that stable a place beforehand but the level of “needed” participation by the US wasn’t an issue either. It still wouldn’t be much of an issue had the Europeans been able to “take care of their own” properly.
I’m glad you “get it” though that Jews aren’t the only ones suffering and my point of view is that for us here in the US, the efforts aren’t worth it to keep trying to “help” solve the problem. This job should be handed over to the Europeans at least in some measure, especially now with the European Union in place. Again, if the Jewish people genuinely feel as though they are continual and extraordinary targets of ethnic hatred etc. maybe they, as a people, should look into themselves and come up with some answers. Stop complaining, do something, it is obvious no one else can!
I hold no contempt for you Ami, but as usual anyone that doesn’t agree with the usually accepted point of view that Israel is innocent in all things is automatically labeled negatively. If you feel as though I was being condescending, so be it, tis your problem it wasn’t intended.
The “Red Indian” statement by Ben Gurion, used as an epithet against Palestinians has been documented by Israeli scholars writing revisionist history, or “setting the record straight” as it were. I point this out as ammunition in my argument that Peace in the Middle East will not happen anytime soon and is the result of a mutual hatred and distrust on BOTH sides of the “wall” being built to separate the sides in the “holy lands.” You say the “Muslims” call you “monkeys” well your Leadership is known for the same kind of name calling!
Most of the actors in the arena that is the Middle East seem to be trying to regain lost empires! This is especially applicable to Israel, Iran and Syria. The religious noise coming out of all of you usually breaks down to this in the end. I’m sick and tired of paying for this.
PS: The Hmong moved out of Southern China about 400 to 500 years ago (according to the Hmong elders) into what are now the mountainous regions of Laos. They ain’t as a group in China anymore Toto!
