Ami,
In paragraph 2 you give some history of the Jews in Persia. I would say that they were in Persia at this time because someone seriously misbehaved toward the Persian Empire before this! The razing of the first temple was a direct result of something on the order of a rebellion or an initial conquest occurring in what was then Israel. It was common practice for the conquerors to take as hostage parts of the noble families of any culture that was conquered and added to the empire or “re-conquered” due to rebellion to insure stability and encourage some kind of understanding (not to mention leverage over the direct leadership of the conquered people to better insure good behavior!) The Jews were not the only people taken to live in the Persian homeland somewhat by force. These hostages were generally treated well and had quite a bit of freedom and lived decent lives.
In you third paragraph you state that the Byzantine Empire fell to the Arabs. This is not correct it was the Ottoman Turks who were not Arabs. Constantinople fell in 1453 to Muhammad II (aka: The Conqueror) of the Ottoman Turkish Empire.
Also in the third paragraph you state that the Romans used interpretation of Christian texts to direct “various State and Church directed programs…” The Romans in 70 AD had no respect or concern for Christians this did not occur until 312 when Constantine won the Battle of the Milvian Bridge (you know the dream he had and the requirement he placed on his soldiers to put the cross on their shields.) In fact the Roman Emperors Diocletian in the years just before 302 and his successor, Galerius, both persecuted Christians to the “nth” degree. So any reference made to Romans paying attention to Christian texts as an excuse to level Jerusalem is incorrect. Keep in mind that the Jewish Rebellion of that time was not limited to the Fertile Crescent either. As an example, there was also a Jewish Revolt in Salamis, on the Eastern end of the Island in what in now known as Cyprus just north of Famagusta. Here the Jews slaughtered Romans and Greeks, so the Roman Legions fury at the Jews for this caused the Jews to get slaughtered in return. I suppose a fair question is “Why were the Jews revolting?” I don’t have the answer at least not in any form I consider valid. I do know that the Salamis affair was not due to any outright threats to the Jewish population living in Salamis if Roman records can be believed. One could ask also why this “rebellion” was fomented in any of the areas it occurred.
In paragraph 4 you speak of the Persians beginning to enforce homogeneity of culture. Again here, don’t think for a moment the Jews were the only that was set upon by this. While true, it targeted some of their “own” as well as other tribes living in what the Persians claimed as their “Empire” as it fell apart. It is rather telling to know that the Medes themselves were considered something like “hicks” or outsiders by the Chaldean Persians during this time and were not treated very well, and it was they (the Medes) that actually were responsible for the first Iranian Empire!
In paragraph 5 you mention a special tax Jews had to tolerate under Sharia Law. This special tax applied to all non-Muslims within the Islamic Empire and still exists today in Sharia Law. The Jews were not singled out here; Christians had to pay these taxes as well. Keep in mind that it was the “Law of the Land” and like or not if you wanted to live there you had to abide by the rules! No one, Jews included were being forced to stay.
In paragraph 6 you mention that the Jews had no legal right to organize “in this way.” Nor did anyone else or ethnic group for that matter, it was not targeting Jews only! Keep in mind an emperor is not likely to start giving territory and subsequently taxes away without it being taken by force.
You also mention in paragraph 6 that “once the land was open….the Jews living under Sharia Law did all they could to escape.” Be careful here Ami, I am a firsthand witness to some of this! The initial immigration of Jews to Israel started out of Europe and had nothing to do with Sharia Law. The term you use for “once the Land was open,” is open to debate as to when this occurred. Do you mean with the British dictates allowing the immigration initially, or from the time Israel gained its independence in 1948? My father was a “mercenary” pilot, hired by the nascent state of Israel to fly Jews that were willing to make the return from where they lived to Israel. I, as a young boy, rode in the cockpit of a number of these flights. There was a lot of confusion (particularly in Ethiopia) but little if any force I was aware of as these people left for Israel. True they left much of their household belongings behind (the aircraft were old DC-3, 4’s and some DC-6’s and could not carry everything the people had.) Kings Mohammed V and Hassan II of Morocco did in fact make pleas to stay (as with Mohammed V) and invited a return (as with Hassan II) of the Jews to Morocco. They seemed to feel the Jews were an important part of their culture and a beneficial part of their society! More to the point we (my dad with me in the jump seat or on the floor) skipped along the North Africa Coast and down in the Northeastern side of Africa and included the Southern Arabian Peninsula in the wanderings picking up Jews after 48’ war for independence. The bottom line here is that the war for independence was basically fought by European Jewry!
Also in paragraph 6 you mention the “treks” people took to get to Israel. The fact that these treks took place does not make them anything particularly Jewish in nature. Plenty of other peoples around the world have done the same thing while seeking a better life, more religious freedom or freedom from oppression in general. I don’t accept any “pity party” emotional displays for these treks no matter who made them nor for what reason(s). You only have to look to the American settlers, or the Pilgrims to see the same kind of thing in my country, or the Sudanese villagers in Darfur running across the border to Tchad to escape violence and persecution or the Hmong in Laos running from the Pathet Lao and Vietnamese to see other people suffering from the same kind of thing. Again, this is not solely a Jewish Tragedy or event and to make it look so is unfair to the larger numbers of peoples that have had to endue the same thing.
Finally in paragraph 6 you state that the “largest Jewish population in Israel are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants from Muslim Lands.” This is patently not the case Ami, and you know it. You are saying in effect that the nation state of Israel was started by Jews primarily coming from other Muslim lands. I should say that I suspect you are trying to hide the fact that it was European Jewry that was largely responsible for the establishment of the nation state of Israel. Shame on you for playing word games here, you won’t garner any sympathy or empathy from me for these kinds of shenanigans! While it may be true TODAY, I’m not sure; it was NOT true in 1948 and earlier!
In paragraph 7 of your response you advise me not to be too quick in suggesting that Europeans were uniquely responsible for the Jewish will to immigrate to “their own homeland.” Further you indicate that Shabbetai Zvi was “stopped” by the Muslim Turks in this ongoing dream of return. One cannot argue that for many years there has always been a sentiment, sometimes weak, sometimes strong (depending on the level of persecution at the time) about the idea of creating a Jewish homeland with a focus on the ancient land of Israel. This is due, and understandably so, in part for religious reasons, and the Biblical promise by God of the land of Israel to his chosen people. Benjamin Disraeli contributed to these thoughts in writing as did many others after him. I am personally not sure of any specifics before Disraeli to be honest, although there may have been. Now I also understand that this Shabbetai Zvi history is one of an individual that claimed to be a messiah of some sorts for the Jewish people of the world. The subsequent use of his name has become synonymous with the return of Jewish peoples to Israel. God may be involved, but to me that is an irrelevant argument because the guns the European Jewry got hold of is what won the war for independence. Given the number of items in history like the Balfour Declaration, the writings of Theodor Herzl and so on, most of which came out of Europe (including Mr. Shabbetai himself in the 1620’s I think) it is hard not to accuse the Europeans in general for the mess in the Middle East. Who leaves a place where they are generally happy, safe, and feel secure? A huge number of Jews living here in the US haven’t had the impetus to leave. Admittedly some have, but by and large the numbers are small when compared to those that stayed here when offered the opportunity to “return.” I think I’ll keep my opinion!
A couple of notes to add to this discussion follow. Are you aware that the Ottoman Turkish Empire had Jewish Financial Viziers occasionally? t\The Ottoman Turks (and their Iron boot) did not really care what you believed in as long as you paid the taxes. Next all the information I’ve gained about how many Jews have been slaughtered by one side or the other was gained from Jewish and/or Israeli sources. I did not accept any source that was “pro-Jewish” or “anti-Jewish.” This exclusion included Christian and Islamic sources that were either pro or con Jewish in nature and tenor. Basically, if it was a Jewish source, it wasn’t accepted.
Ami, have you ever asked yourself why Jews seem to be “singled” out? I’d really like to hear any thoughts you have on this.
PS: Use of the term “little people” in your initial post is really bad form, they matter because that is where the suicide bombers etc. come from!
