‘You Can See November from the Washington Monument’
As always, we’re getting some new information and finding some errors, so after this morning’s first go-around, let’s take a second pass at estimating the number of people at yesterday’s rally by Glenn Beck at the Lincoln Memorial.
First of all, as commenter “Raymond Shaw” points out, the actual “dense crowd” number used by the National Park Service is five square feet per person, not ten. I missed a step by not explaining that I started using ten square feet in my original estimates last year to account for the difference in density between the really crowded areas near the front and the less dense areas near the back.
| Estimate | 10 square feet per person | 5 square feet per person | 2.5 square feet per person |
| Maximum: | 215,000 people | 430,000 | 860,000 |
| 90 percent | 200,000 | 400,000 | 800,000 |
| 75 percent | 163,000 | 326,000 | 652,000 |
| 50 percent | 108,000 | 216,000 | 432,000 |
| CBS News Estimate | 87,000 | 87,000 | 87,000 |
| 40 percent | 86,000 | 172,000 | 344,000 |
If we use those Park Service figures, obviously the estimates double or quadruple, as shown in the amended table above.
I continue to think those numbers are too dense. Five square feet per person means a space 24 inches deep by 30 inches wide; 2.5 square feet per person is one 12 inches by 30 inches.
Just to try to make sense of these intuitively, let’s consider standard towel sizes:
| Towel type | Dimensions | Area |
| Bath sheet | 35 in x 60 in | 15 square feet |
| Beach towel | 30 x 60 | 12.5 square feet |
| “Dense” crowd | 24 x 30 | 5 square feet |
| Hand towel | 16 x 30 | 3.3 square feet |
| “Packed” crowd | 12 x 30 | 2.5 square feet |
| Wash towel | 13 x 13 | 1.7 square feet |
So the numbers quoted for the Park Service estimates come down to each person standing on a space a little more than a hand towel for the less dense number, and a bit more than a wash towel for the more dense.
Frankly, if I’m that close to another person for any length of time, I want dinner and a movie.
The pictures we have are apparently from fairly early in the rally, and as I say, I took the conservative approach by only counting what I could see. We can speculate some, though, by guessing that some further number of people arrived and occupied areas outside my perimeter (more about that below) and use that to make some more estimates. So let’s extend that, speculatively:
| Speculative Estimate | 10 square feet per person | 5 square feet per person | 2.5 square feet per person |
| 150 percent | 323,000 | 645,000 | 1,300,000 |
| 125 percent | 269,000 | 538,000 | 1,076,000 |
| 110 percent | 237,000 | 473,000 | 946,000 |
| 100 percent (was “maximum”) | 215,000 people | 430,000 | 860,000 |
| CBS News Estimate | 87,000 | 87,000 | 87,000 |
The one thing we can say for certain here is that the CBS News estimate looks more and more foolish.
The second point, which several commenters raised, was that there were a lot of people under the trees. I included the actual Google Earth kml files for the polygon I used in my original piece, but there were technical issues with making them available through the PJM site. So here’s a screen shot of the polygon (click to get full size):
As you can see, I did include a lot of the area under the trees, particularly on the north side of the reflecting pool. It’s certainly possible I didn’t include all the possible area, but again I was trying to make sure any errors were on the low side.
Reader David Thomasson passed along an interesting comparison, as well. David is a professional retoucher who used his Photoshop skills to make this comparison:
Here is a visual aid that might give some idea of the crowd size.
At the WW2 Memorial, the distance between the two pillars is, by chance, 120 yards — the length of a football field including the end zones (you can verify that on Google Earth, which has an extremely accurate ruler):
This photo of the Orange Bowl was taken from about the same perspective as the shot of the mall during the Beck rally. I resized it so the field matches the distance between the pillars. The Orange Bowl in this configuration had a capacity of about 76,000. Its maximum capacity reached 80,000 at some point, though I don’t think it was in the configuration shown here:
Now, these pictures could be a little misleading, since there is pretty substantial foreshortening as we head toward the Lincoln Memorial, but taken with the appropriate amount of salt I think it’s a good comparison: CBS News would make this crowd “only” the size of an Orange Bowl crowd, and that doesn’t seem to match at all well.
In any case, I think commenter “FredB” wrote the perfect conclusion:
“You can see November from the Washington Monument.”
As always, we’re getting some new information and finding some errors, so let’s take a second pass at this estimate.
First of all, as commenter Raymond Shaw points out, the actual “dense crowd” number used by the Park Service is five square feet per person, not ten. I missed a step by not explaining that I started using ten square feet in my original estimates last year to account for the difference in density between the really crowded areas near the front, and the less dense areas near the back.
|
Estimate |
10 square feet per person |
5 square feet per person |
2.5 square feet per person |
|
Maximum: |
215,000 people |
430,000 |
860,000 |
|
90 percent |
200,000 |
400,000 |
800,000 |
|
75 percent |
163,000 |
326,000 |
652,000 |
|
50 percent |
108,000 |
216,000 |
432,000 |
|
87,000 |
87,000 |
87,000 |
|
|
40 percent |
86,000 |
172,000 |
344,000 |
If we use those Park Service figures, obviously the estimates double or quadruple, as shown in the amended table above.
I continue to think those numbers are too dense. Five square feet per person means a space 24 inches deep by 30 inches wide; 2.5 square feet per person is one 12 inches by 30 inches.
Just to try to make sense of these intuitively, let’s consider standard towel sizes:
|
Towel type |
Dimensions |
Area |
|
Bath sheet |
35 in x 60 in |
15 square feet |
|
Beach towel |
30 x 60 |
12.5 square feet |
|
“Dense” crowd |
24 x 30 |
5 square feet |
|
Hand towel |
16 x 30 |
3.3 square feet |
|
“Packed” crowd |
12 x 30 |
2.5 square feet |
|
Wash towel |
13 x 13 |
1.7 square feet |
So the numbers quoted for the Park Service estimates come down to each person standing on a space a little more than a hand towel for the less dense number, and a bit more than a wash towel for the more dense.
Frankly, if I’m that close to another person for any length of time, I want dinner and a movie.
The pictures we have are apparently from fairly early in the rally, and as I say, I took the conservative approach by only counting what I could see. We can speculate some, though, by guessing that some further number of people arrived and occupied areas outside my perimeter (more about that below) and use that to make some more estimates. So let’s extend that, speculatively:
|
Speculative Estimate |
10 square feet per person |
5 square feet per person |
2.5 square feet per person |
|
150 percent |
323,000 |
645,000 |
1,300,000 |
|
125 percent |
269,000 |
538,000 |
1,076,000 |
|
110 percent |
237,000 |
473,000 |
946,000 |
|
100 percent (was “maximum”) |
215,000 people |
430,000 |
860,000 |
|
87,000 |
87,000 |
87,000 |
The once thing we can say for certain here is that the CBS News estimate looks more and more foolish.
The second point, which several commenters raised, was that there were a lot of people under the trees. I included the actual Google Earth kml files for the polygon I used in my original piece, but there were technical issues with making them available through the PJM site. So here’s a screen shot of the polygon (click to get full size):
As you can see, I did include a lot of the area under the trees, particularly on the north side of the Reflecting Pool. It’s certainly possible I didn’t include all the possible area, but again I was trying to make sure any errors were on the low side.
Reader David Thomasson passed along an interesting comparison, as well. David is a professional retoucher who used his Photoshop skills to make this comparison:
Here is a visual aid that might give some idea of the crowd size.
At the WW2 Memorial, the distance between the two pillars is, by chance, 120 yards — the length of a football field including the end zones (you can verify that on Google Earth, which has an extremely accurate ruler):
This photo of the Orange Bowl was taken from about the same perspective as the shot of the mall during the Beck rally. I resized it so the field matches the distance between the pillars. The Orange Bowl in this configuration had a capacity of about 76,000. Its maximum capacity reached 80,000 at some point, though I don’t think it was in the configuration shown here:
Now, these pictures could be a little misleading, since there is pretty substantial foreshortening as we head toward the Lincoln Memorial, but taken with the appropriate amount of salt I think it’s a good comparison: CBS News would make this crowd “only” the size of an Orange Bowl crowd, and that doesn’t seem to match at all well.
In any case, I think commenter “FredB” wrote the perfect conclusion:
You can see November from the Washington monument.
OK when was the last time CBS reported the news without a leftward tilt? Second, who cares what CBS says anyway. The important part of the story is that one man with his own money collected a lot of money for a worthy charity and brought a large group of people from across the country to one place to listen to white, black, American Indian, Christian,Mormon, Jewish speakers talk about faith, hope and charity. The S***stains in the current administration and the “news” people can try and spin whatever drug induced dreams that they choose. Again who cares? Maybe 20 years ago the New York Times was a real newspaper, but if it goes bankrupt now who cares?
a) Beck did not spend his own money, b) all costs pertaining to this rally “come first” – so who knows how much will actually be “collected” and c) this is a FreedomWorks/Koch Bros. production.
Beck was talking about it on the radio this morning and indicated that this was what was raised after all expenses/costs were paid.
Yes, he did spend his own money. This was discussed on his radio program when he happened to be off making final arrangements for the event last week. If you don’t listen, I suggest you not comment.
Sorry I stand corrected, he rented the Kennedy Center with his own money. If this was a charity event the financial record should be available in a couple of months. Why don’t you let us know the details.
Is it safe yet? Good.
I don’t know if you can detect the normal aggregate of dismay and acquiescence to angst in the general tone of the rubes, err, audience, but had Buck been a better person in mind, heart, and body, he undoubtedly would’ve recognized that indeed the worm has turned and the jig is up, contrary to what he has misled you into believing. The little crybaby had other intrigues and barely concealed ruses to attend to, some of which of course involved the rubes, err, audience and the hasty removal of their barely adequate monetary reserves. The “speech”: about as enjoyable as snaking the backyard drain. Content? A pile of dusty roots and old time religion tubers, the sum total bigger in volume and identical in substance to three dump-trucks full of chicken shi, err, waste (seems like a convenient measuring standard). The drain flows a lot better now, which is more than I can say for any sense of continuity of logic or thought when you got wordsmiths like Buck and Palin. Hey Repugs! If you’re considering trying to wrest your party back from these bubble-headed gherkins, it’s Roto-Rooter – that’s the name – to the rescue at some future financially solvent date. Until then, regardless of what the final outcome is, some will remember you and your sacrifice, and relate to future generations that it was probably your most horrible hour. But it’s a mystery to me why you tolerate it.
Carl, are you by any chance a college professor? You seem to be serving up the typical mush that sounds impressive until you actually try to figure out what it means. I’m sure you think that those in the audience, that is the rubes, must be too dumb to appreciate your sophistication. I certainly count for one of them because other than stringing a few sentences together which are clearly intended to be insults, I have no clue what you are talking about. I guess all those years in grad school were a complete waste for me.
Carl, or is it Karl,
I have two degrees, mathematics and electrical engineering, and I have no idea what you just said.You are ……WOW!!!Gosh, I feel so stupid. Hard science degrees worth nothing these days, I assume.
I really appreciate arrogant elitists like Carl insulting mainstream Americans as ignorant racist bigots. They have not only transformed the previously disengaged conservatives into the enraged and engaged, they have alienated a good majority of Independents. Please continue, and perhaps ratchet up the rhetoric. Be a bit more vile and shrill. Scream it from the rooftops every day. By November you may manage to alienate the rest of the Independents and all of the “moderate” Democrats as well. That would be great. Thanks!
You know how in crowd scenes in Hollywood movies, they use cardboard cut-outs? Same thing here. It LOOKED like a lot of people, but I assure you–they were styrofoam.
I’ll bet…that you have no pictures to prove it
Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) says he saw the cardboard cutouts when he was walking with Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) The cutouts even spit at them and yelled insults.
Sweet!
I assure everyone else here this d-bag is a liar. I was there. I spent the night on the mall with thousands of others and before the event even started, the crowd was scattered across the hill rising to the Washington monument. The place was PACKED!
Nunya, when you had the operation that removed your sense of humor, did it hurt for long?
Part of the Teabagger MO is to “spread out” make it look like there are more people than there really is; It’s all part of the Faux Newz/Freedom Works (Koch Bros.) Propaganda – the estimate is nearly 80K – which is probably about right, but you have to account for people that were in Washington – NOT officially there and bused in for the Beck event (Koch/FreedomWorks is busing their crowds in and giving them “stipends” to buy food, etc. – these are astro turf events). History is going to have fun with the Teabaggers and the Koch Industries attempts to rule as William Randolph Hurst for the 21st Century – Democracy is under attack and it’s by the Reich Wing.
“Democracy is under attack and it’s by the Reich Wing.”
I agree. Robert Reich and his ilk must be stopped!
The enduring question for JizzyJim here is: how do you manage to function with a skull full of dried leaves and dead insects? Yuo DO realize that you’re babbling, don’t you, JizzyBoy?
Jim,
You hit it right on the bullseye……The Koch Brothers are laughing at these gullible people, and all the way to the bank.
By the way, for being so anti-government as they claim to be, they sure get a LOT of government contracts for their
flotilla of companies. Don’t any of you folks ever feel like you’re being used by these so-called patriots? Wake Up!
Since when does PJM accept comments from styrofoam bloggers?
Now, now, the comment policy doesn’t say anything about discriminating based on physical composition.
Thanks for the laugh. I needed it today.
They grew out of the AstroTurf… Must investigate…
I think there were 10 million people there. The MSM doctored the photos..’
It really doesn’t matter what the MSM says. oh..CBS says there were 96,000. again, 25 million at least.
There are many of us out here that couldn’t make it to Washington, but we will make it to the ballot boxes.
- … I want dinner and a movie.
I’m getting the sense that the majority of Americans are feeling the same way about the current administration and the current Congress at this point.
Awesome work as always, Charlie.
Dinner and a movie nothing, I’d settle for, in the immortal words of R.Lee Ermy, “the common courtesy of a reach around!”
Patrick
The current administration and the TV network droolers will find out on November 2nd how many of us there are. On that date they will be discussing numbers in the millions, numbers that grow each and every day, numbers that will overwhelm them!
Vox populi, vox dei.
The voice of the people [is] the voice of God.
Amen!
Excellent work. My take-away is that the MSM
should not lie so transparently; It makes them
seem desperate.
I was at the Glenn Beck rally and only managed to get just behind the portable toilets. I saw the proceedings on a tv monitor. It was so densely packed, I could hardly move. 2.5 to 5 ft. per person sounds right.
The hammer is coming. There is a fire that has been rekindled and a great awakening occurring in the hearts of the American people. No matter what, there were scores of people there yesterday and consider that for every person that was there, there were ten that could not or did not come.
“It is our duty to throw off such government and to institute New Guards to preserve our liberty.”
–the New Guards.
TC I dont know how many wanted to go who couldn’t but I wanteto go and couldn’t aford it
And THAT, William, is the difference between conservatives & liberals. A liberal would’ve applied for a federally-funded “rally-diversity” subsidy & had a good time on the taxpayer.
The attendees still appear to be almost all white. How can a movement talk about restoring honor to anything and at the same time appear to be unwelcoming to minorities?
I guess you would have to find some minorities who chose not to go specifically because they felt unwelcome, and find out if their reasons for not going and their reason for feeling unwelcome was based on specific facts about this group (which has been throwing out an open invitation for months).
Or was their reason for not going based on some perspective they have had for a long time and which actually has nothing to do with this particular event???? Let us know what you find out.
What I found out is that almost not minorities attended GB’s rally. So my question to his defenders is why?
Ahhh hah!
So it doesn’t really matter that a black woman spoke? It doesn’t even matter whether or not the crowd actually was unwelcoming to minorities. They just appeared to be.
Bad liberal! No latte! Reality is not the same thing as appearances!
Patrick
If you took the time to read my comment, you would have realized that I was referring to the attendees. I’ve never denied that a select few minorities participate with the Tea Party and GB‘s rally. My questions is, why does it only appear to be 1% to 2% of the movement?
Do you really mean to imply that simply being white is “…appear[ing] to be unwelcoming to minorities.”?
If a ‘minority’ was so fearful of a white crowd talking about the things this crowd was talking about, then I would say without hesitation that that person was the racist.
Guess we should investigate major league sports as being unwelcoming to white people? How about the Supreme Court? Too many Catholics, right? Must be unwelcoming to Protestants. [For those of you without a sense of humor, I am being ironic.]The notion of proportional representation as proof of goodness or rightness or something (??)is absurd. What does unwelcoming mean? Fences, dirty looks, fire hoses, dogs, what? I sincerely doubt it. Aside from the crowds (ahem) anyone who wanted to be there could be there, no? The good thing about comments such as the “unwelcoming” one is that they are so idiotic that it becomes more and more difficult to empathize with the view they purport to espouse. Political correctness looks sillier every day. This is a good thing, folks!
Actually the faux justification for not being politically correct is funnier.
Look like they had a shift change at Media Matters.
JazzyJim
About as funny as attitudes that resemble the Nation of Islam.
SB
Sport franchises and the Supreme court do not have hundreds of thousands of attendees participating in rallies that appear exclusive to white people. I’m just asking why that is?
Charlie Martin
I believe you meant to write looks instead of look. It would seem that just like with your articles, you do not pay attention to detail with your comments.
Speaking of details, where are those photos or video that contradict the photos you attached with your article? You know the ones that show minorities participating (in excess of the 1%-2% that they do) at the GB rally?
Dan
No actually I’m asking why GB’s rally was almost all white.
Did you forget your instructions so soon? “Overwhelmingly white” or “predominantly white” are the phrases you’re supposed to use.
Go back to J-school.
gus3
Actually I’m not following anyone’s instructions. What I am doing is making observations based on Charlie Martin’s photos and video from Fox “News”.
The speakers were white, black Indian, christian Jewish, Mormon What the hell more can you ask?? I know kidnap blacks and Mexicans.
Forgotten Man
As I’ve stated before, I know that there are a select few minorities that participate with the Tea Party. My question is why 98% – 99% of the attendees are white?
I looked up the definition of honor, based on Real American’s observation and am shocked to learn that it has nothing to do with race whatsoever.
1hon·or noun \ˈä-nər\
Definition of HONOR
1a : good name or public esteem : reputation b : a showing of usually merited respect : recognition
2: privilege
3: more here….. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/honor?show=0&t=1283135178
Websters appears to be a distinctly racist dictionary.
And Real American, please take the time to educate us how “almost all white” transforms into “unwelcoming to minorities”. There appear to be several logical steps that are missing. Is the “almost all white” US Senate “unwelcoming to minorities”? What about the “almost all black” Black Congressional Congress? Is it “unwelcoming to whites”, or even “hostile to whites”? Please explain with examples.
Personally, I find that the people who constantly call people racists are actually racists themselves.
What honor was lost? Bush and his administration destroyed our moral and intellectual high ground. In effect, Beck was rallying against his own party. Why can’t the Blind Faith open their eyes to see what is in front of them, instead of following the snake-oil sales man whom works for Corporate Ownership of America (Murdoch – whom as an Australian could never be President and the Koch Brothers).
And exactly which party is Mr. Beck a member of?
Do tell.
Hint: If you say “Republican” it shows you have absolutely NO IDEA who the man is.
AF-Vet
The question here is why GB’s rally appears to have been attended almost only by white people?
One thing that’s always funny about North Korean propaganda is the sheer hyperbole of the overwrought rhetoric.
You hear that in other places, too, and it’s just as funny.
Thomas
Disagreement should be welcomed in an honest debate but personal attacks serve no purpose.
JazzyJim
It wasn’t just the Republicans.
I wholeheartedly agree, proreason. However you forgot a couple. The mostly all white talking heads and anchors at CNN and MSNBC, they must also be unwelcoming to minorities. Heil Olbermann! Heil Matthews!
TimInVirginia
A few news anchor are quite a difference from hundreds of thousands of people.
proreason
I never stated that honor has anything to do with race. What I asked, was how certain actions that appear to be in contradiction to a keen sense of ethical conduct, can be honorable? Conduct that appears to include being unwelcoming to minorities. The definition of honor includes “a keen sense of ethical conduct”. Or do you think that the Nation of Islam is an honorable movement? Your red herrings aside, the Webster’s dictionary does not appear to be racist.
As to your question the answer is simple: the Democratic party has many constituents and they include all Americans. The Tea Party appears to include almost only white Americans. Concerning your red herrings about the Congress: there are only 435 members of Congress but there were hundreds of thousands of attendees at GB’s rally.
Finally, I didn’t accuse anybody of anything. I haven’t called anyone a racist. As a liberal I don’t believe in that garbage. Kinds makes your last comment interesting; doesn’t it?
You know, RA, you’re one-note repetition of this begins to sound a bit obsessive. So, okay, we now know that you — not having been there — have the perception that you think the crowd was “too” white.
It’s a nice talking point.
The best part is that no matter how many times people point to the black and hispanic speakers, or even to Peshai Oway, that perception won’t change, because, frankly, it isn’t based on any experience, but on your own preconceptions..
No actually it’s not a “talking point” but an observation.
As I’ve stated repeatedly, I know that there were and are a select few minority speakers that speak at Tea Party rallies. What I’ve been asking about, are the attendees.
You may think you’re being clever by subtly changing the subject but you’re not.
Furthermore, I don’t have any preconceived opinions about the Tea Party. The opinions I do have are based on observations. Those opinions can be changed.
And the best part is, is that if you can produce pictures that contradict YOUR photos or the video from Fox “News” you could do so.
I wonder what the chances of that happening are.
I was there. There WERE people of all races in the crowd. Just because you were told it wasn’t so, doesn’t make it true.
Doug Loss
Yes but the crowd was almost all white. Not 60% to 70% but 98% to 99%. And I wasn’t told so, I was shown so by Charlie Martin’s photos and video from Fox “News”.
No. What you “observed” is that mostly White people arrended. You observed no hostility to non-Whites. Were only White people invited to attend? Hell, no, Beck would have been delighted to welcome as many “minorities” as he could get to bolster his credentials with people like you. So, if mostly White people attended, what does that tell you? Think Occam’s Razor, now.
To me, it says that nobody else cares about the issues that are important to those who attended. Accept it, and move on. Enough already with all the angst about appearing too White. (Could there be such a thing?)
Analog Man
I never stated that any hostility was directed at anybody. All I did was ask a simple question: why do almost all of the attendees at GB’s rally appear to be white? Not too white or mostly white but almost all white. I’m just asking why.
Hmmm, chances are pretty good as photos and videos are showing up on the net as we speak. Perhaps you might consider visiting some of the blogs owned by minority tea party members and see what they are saying about the event. Google is your friend.
Why, here’s a video posted just this morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtIuFovFulw&feature=player_embedded
Rio
A small gathering of about 12 black people surrounded by a at least 150 white people. There were at least 300,000 people at that rally. I’ve always acknowledged that 1%-2% of GB’s rally were minorities. Your video confirms that.
Ah yes, the question of minorities….We were there. I myself am a minority’s minority, I happen to be Half Korean and half northern Euro for my genetic background, and that places me firmly with everyone else that was in attendance, we were all American. Period! Where the crowd disappears under the trees, know that it was mostly shoulder to shoulder under there for at least the length of the pool. We arrived on site around eleven, and made our way back out from about half way up the pool by 12:45 (you couldn’t go further forward)….people were still arriving. The grass between the Washington and WWII memorials was densely packed about 2/3 the way up and then thinned out more sporadically further up the hill. I spoke to people of all genetic backgrounds making my way through the crowd. America was in attendance, be sure of that!
Wow, you consider yourself a double minority. They’ve messed with your head, why would you support such ignorance?
Kuma
Yes I know white Americans were in attendance. My questions is, why does it appear to be almost only white Americans?
Furthermore, I don’t have any preconceived opinions about the Tea Party. The opinions I do have are based on observations. Those opinions can be changed.
I wasn’t there either. So much for your “observations.” Or do you mean observations of Keith Olberman ? In that case, I apologize for doubting your observations.
Mike_K
Actually my observation are based on Charlie Martin’s photos and video from Fox “News”.
“Furthermore, I don’t have any preconceived opinions about the Tea Party.”
Yeah. Anybody buying this?
Evil Otto
So I guess you have nothing constructive to add?
From the pictures i have seen online, there were more minorities at the Beck rally then there were non-minorities at the Sharpton rally. This subject only serves one purpose and that is to label the Tea Party followers as racist. One wonders why these questions/observations/accusations weren’t thrown at the Sharpton rally. But then again I am a minority Tea Party patriot so i must be an idiot for even thinking this way.
Jupiter
That’s your opinion and I do not share it.
Didn’t actually follow the link, did you?
Charlie Martin
Actually I did. It was of small gathering of about 12 black people surrounded by a at least 150 white people. There were at least 300,000 people at that rally. I’ve always acknowledged that 1%-2% of GB’s rally were minorities. That video confirms that.
Beck was pretty plain in his on the air address all people, all faiths, all races were welcome. If they choose not to attend what can you do ? club them and drag them? kinda defeats the purpose doesn’t it.
cotreg
Actions speak louder than words.
Despite politically correct efforts to show racial diversity, the United States is a predominantly white country. A random crowd of Americans will be mostly white. I went to school in a rural school district where the students were 100% white because that just happens to be the ethnic makeup of the population out in the country. In the end this just means that the ancestors of most Americans came from Northern Latitudes where less skin pigment helped compensate for less sun exposure.
George B
Yes but it wasn’t a random crowd. GB’s rally had hundreds of thousands of attendees. Also the U.S. population is made up of over 100 million minorities. So why were almost all the attendees white?
The “predominately white” crowd at the GB rally cheered every time Dr. King was mentioned or quoted. Comparing the two rallies, it is obvious which was concerned about the “content of a man’s character rather than the color of his skin”. I believe if we were fortunate enough to have Dr. King with us, he would have spoken at the tea party rally and been saddened by the counter movement. I am, BTW, white and female.
Sorry to disagree. Dr. King would see it for what it is; a con.
That you can deign to speak for a dead man and what he would have believed only displays your arrogance.
JizzyJim’s a liberal fascist. It’s what he does.
AF-Vet
Agreed.
Ward Dorrity
You can’t be a liberal and a fascist.
I don’t believe anyone mentioned it at the rally, but do you notice the cynicism? It’s a con, it’s not real, they hate blacks, they’re racists. Beck and his followers just can’t believe in God, it’s too stupid. And there, my friends, is the reason we will win. They think that flying the flag is stupid, that believing in the goodness of this country is stupid, and believing in devine intervention is stupid. Nobody who’s cool actually believes that stuff, right? Well, we shall soon see.
gordo
And you base your opinions on what? If you’re going to make accusations like that, you have to back it up with proof.
JazzyJim
Perhaps, or perhaps not.
Earl Grey Decaf
The “counter movement” includes all Americans not just white Americans.
Any disparity that occurred during this event was due to the choices made by those who, for whatever reason, CHOSE not to be there.
hachie1
It seems hard to believe that almost none of the over 100 MILLION American minorities chose not to join GB’s rally for no particular reason.
So ….. 95% black support for Obama is racist?
IcePilot
If that black support behaved in a manner that suggested that non-blacks were not welcome to support the President; perhaps. But all Americans voted for President Obama, not just black Americans.
UNWELCOMING???..
People that did not show up , chose not to go….Washington is 50% minority..they were within waling distance..they chose not to go…CHOSE>>
If I lived closer I would have gone..again CHOICE to go or not to go..walking distance to many that CHOSE not to go..
vote early, vote often..hey, we gotta watch the ballot stuffing that will probably go on in some form. Liberals are in real danger of losing and are desperate.
k.c.
Chose or were not welcome? There are over 100 MILLION American who are minorities and there were over 300,000 attendees at GB’s rally. Does it really not seem strange to you, that only 1%-2% of the attendees were minorities?
The Tea Party movement is not at all unwelcoming to minorities. It, in fact, openly and enthusiastically welcomes them. That so few of them have chosen to join speaks more of the government dependence mentality and class envy the Dems embrace. People who have bought into the farce that government handouts are their due do not want to hear about the constitution and personal responsibility. Do an honest assessment of violence in action and rhetoric and you will find it comes overwhelmingly from far left extremists rather than Tea Party members. Although the overwhelmingly liberal biased media is doing it’s best to paint the TP as racist – that doesn’t make it so.
BigAl
Read my comment to k.c.
Please, enlighten me on how many whites were invited to and attended the so-called “Million Man March”?
Peter the Bubblehead
I’m not privy to who was or was not invited but I believe that the percentage of whites attending Farakhan’s march was about the same as the percentage of minority attendees at GB’s rally. Was that a Freudian slip on your part?
How is it that you noticed ?
The Glenn Beck, as are Teaparty rallies, are open rallies. No storm-troopers at the doors. In contrast to the million man march of Louis Farrakhan et al of recent history.
Aren’t you, as a clear card-carrying liberal, supposed to be color-blind?
jojo
As a liberal, yes I am color blind in my judgment of others. However, that does not make me blind to the actions of others. When those actions include activities that have almost no minority participation, I question why.
I have been to two large Tea Party rallies and your space estimate is too high. My wife and I had to actually move our bodies sideways constantly to let people get by. When people get together in big rallies like this they tend to all push forward as the speeches start and the distance goes down. A lot of the density of the crowd would be dependent on this issue. The other thing is that the MSM will never acknowledge how large the “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more” crowd is. It gets sort of childish to say my thing is bigger than your thing. Forget about it. Let’s praise the people who went and the people who staged it for their intensity and perseverance.
Dumb person in the back of the room raising her hand:
1. Since we know the MSM lies/distorts/minimizes any #s of conservatives present anywhere,
a. why do we check with them?
b. why do we feel compelled to care?
2. The people who were there know. The MSM knows. So all we’re trying to determine is:
a. Are they still lying?
b. Answer is always “yes”
(1) how much are they lying? (as much as they think they can get away with)
(2) can we make them admit they are lying? (no)
I think this kind of exercise just provides entertainment to the liars and their worshippers. May I suggest it’s pointless. You can’t negotiate with a liar and you can’t trust a Level 3 abuser. The MSM is both. I neither read nor watch any of their crap and haven’t for many years.
We’ve all been abused at length, folks, by the left and by the MSM. We do NOT have to apologize or explain ANY MORE why we leave the room when they enter. It’s called survival instinct….and putting energy to better use.
Emma, the number of attendees is a matter of interest in and of itself. We don’t know if the legacy media is distorting if we don’t know what the truth is. And, as I commented in the earlier piece, what we know in this case is that, with the exception of CBS News, the legacy media, even NBC and the New York Times are feeling the pressure sufficiently that they actually put the attendance into the hundreds of thousands.
Ok…I guess that connects some of the dots I was missing. Thank you. It often seems that in our efforts to clarify what’s going on, we still feel compelled to check with (or get the approval of) the people who have been lying all along. But I stand corrected regarding your reasons for pushing the point.
The whole thing sort of reminds me of the old saw about the American justice system of trial by jury: We hire attorneys to both defend and prosecute; they bring in many witnesses who all swear to tell the truth; and then the jury of 12 decides who’s telling the truth.
I think one of the more telling facts in all of this is it appears there were more attendees at Glenn Beck’s rally than there are subscribers to the NYTs and similar so-called mainstream media outlets.
If 9 out of 10 dentists recommend something – why do you follow the 1 dentist whom has a different opinion down the wrong path?
If teabaggers “only believe” Fox (Saudi Prince, Australian Propaganda magnate, Koch Bros. and Murdoch narrative) – why do they think the world is conspiring against them? Furthermore, you’re assuming America up until Fox must have been a horrible place to be – as we didn’t have propaganda until Fox and Reagan cut a deal with then deal with devil broker Jerry Falwell.
Use your brain; America’s freedom and democracy depends on legitimate journalism and media outlets – not those owned by the propaganda magnets you portend to the only source for truth. It is more likely, you’re the only group believing lies from one source.
You’ve certainly got your talking points and memes in order…I’ll give you that. Not much else though.
“America’s freedom and democracy depends on legitimate journalism and media outlets – not those owned by the propaganda magnets you portend to the only source for truth. It is more likely, you’re the only group believing lies from one source.”
The irony and lack of self awareness of this statement is staggering. In addition, JJ definitely has been reading up on his Dem talking points. Must have a live feed from the DNC. You forgot to throw in “Bush lied!!” There, I did it for you.
Funny how Fox has bigger ratings than MSNBC, CNN, and CNBC combined, more than there are registered conservatives in the US. So who is watching all that Fox News? The loony liberals dirty little secret! Even the Moonbats don’t trust Keith Olberman and Chrissy Mathews!
I am just shocked that there are people like you that cannot see the mess that socialistic forms of government cause. Putting facts in front of you is like trying to teach a fish to read and just as useful.
@ #8 How on earth do you discern that this rally was unwelcoming to minorities? Were there ANY signs….ANY signs at all? No, there weren’t. Beck made it clear ALL were welcome. Free will being what it is, one has the choice to either climb on board or not. His guests were of all races. There were a mixture in the audience as well, but there are many minorities who are wildly brainwashed by the left. Does that make this rally unwelcoming to those minorities? It’s Beck’s fault that those people chose not to take part? Let me be the first to tell you….the minorities that didn’t go DIDN’T GO because it was unwelcoming. They did so because they haven’t yet been able to think for themselves. (See Dr. Alveda King, and the vitriol she’s faced for daring to have her own mind, off the plantation.) Stop with the ridiculous “unwelcoming” meme. That rally was sincere, full of love, welcoming, and charitable for all who chose to be there and understand.
“Were there ANY signs….ANY signs at all?”
nunya
If you mean signs of minority participation, then the answer is; almost none.
…See Dr. Alveda King, and the vitriol she’s faced for daring to have her own mind, off the plantation…
Tell me about it !
Bill Cosby
Bill Cosby
Better yet, tell minorities about it and convince them that they are welcome.
Eva
The near total absence of minorities for one. And if the rally really was “sincere, full of love, welcoming, and charitable for all who chose to be there and understand” why did almost none of the 100 million minority Americans not attend?
We see in the Tea Parties the perfect marriage between the greed of the billionaires and the racism of the mindless rubes who follow them. The billionaire Koch brothers invented the Tea Parties to further enrich themselves. They distract ordinary white people from their greed by claiming that people of color are the reason for their misery. Their propaganda has actually convinced ordinary White people that Muslims, Blacks, and Hispanics are the reason their children have neither health care nor enough food to eat when all they need to do is look at the lifestyle of such billionaires who live in mansions and dine on steak and lobster and they will see where all the money has gone.
Wow.
I presume you’re going to run for office to spread your message…. or something?
You sold me Throbbin.
With logic like that, who could disagree.
So…you’ve never actually been to a tea party yourself, then…
When I hear you rant I am reminded to clean up what my dogs leave in the yard…
Way to blast those millionaires. Is that what Soros told you to say?
Your nonsense is irrelevant – the people attending know who they are and aren’t going to be thrown by your orchestrated lies and slander. Your hatred of the people shines through.
Please don’t let the aluminum foil slip off your head again or I’ll have to get in my black helicopter and you will be sorry!
Throbbin Yobbin has been listening to Fresh Air on NPR — The Koch brothers starting the Tea Party is the new narrative. The Tea Parties pretty much began on their own, mostly as an outcry against congress passing the stimulus bill in 2/09. The stimulus bill was by and large pork and unread by those who voted.
However, the Koch brothers are large supporters of free market capitalism, thus the left’s reason to demonize them.
Actually, http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer broke the story and yesterday’s Op-Ed – which was dead on.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/frankrich/index.html
What is amazing – as it always is to the indoctrinated – is how so many religulous can be so misled and then you think of Goebbels and go, “Ah!” Propaganda is a very effective tool. Hate, fear, religulous and propaganda – create monsters.
Using the NYT as a source? Seriously, may as well just link to the Dem. Nat. Party site. Actually, DNC may be more credible.
Ah, yes – monsters. Let’s talk about monsters. Like the will-to-power driven totalitarian monsters who slaughtered over 200 million people in the last century and this one so far.
Care to name names?
Care to expound on the pedigree of their ideas?
Speaking of monsters, how about the late 19th and early 20th century proponents of eugenics?
Anything to say about that?
Thought not.
You should not spend so much time listening to NPR. Amazing fact: although NPR is taxpayer supported, it is not fair and balanced.
We see in the Tea Parties the perfect marriage between the greed of the billionaires and the racism of the mindless rubes who follow them.
George Soros founded the Tea Party? Damn. Didn’t know that.
Their propaganda has actually convinced ordinary White people that Muslims, Blacks, and Hispanics are the reason their children have neither health care nor enough food to eat
Enough food to eat? Enough food to eat?? WTF? You’re aware that we have an obesity epidemic, right? When’s the last time you saw someone looking emaciated? (Supermodels don’t count.)
when all they need to do is look at the lifestyle of such billionaires who live in mansions and dine on steak and lobster and they will see where all the money has gone.
Shouldn’t that read wagyu beef, instead of the more proletarian “steak?”
Typical Statism claptrap.
One of the founders of the tea party was in fact a young black woman.
The GB rally had nothing to do with tea party.
Why did MLK’s niece choose to stand with GB instead of Sharpton?
As a Tea Party sympathizer who had never heard of the Koch brothers until they became the lefty meme du jour last week, I am as bemused as the earnest liberal who only just learned the name of Saul Alinsky from abusive Internet posts by conservatives.
Can we both agree to treat our political opponents as agents of their own free will and judgment rather than pawns of shadowy conspiracy theories?
Throbbin – I’m actually glad that you believe the TP movement is the creation of billionaires and stupid white people. That means that you are blissfully unaware of the tidal wave of everyday Americans across the country that are about to obliterate the Dems. You keep yelling about Koch and Bush and greedy white people – nothing to worry about.
You CANNOT be serious.
Don’t forget that race-baiter “Charlitan Sharpton” was having his own get down. (What was the attendance at that shindig?) And who knows, maybe the new Black Kitties were intimidating minorities from attending also. Nevermind, they all have TV’s and are watching anyway because they know the truth and the truth means hard work and sacrifice. Nope. Can’t have that! Just maintain the status quo. Gimme, gimme, gimme mine. You owe me that mr. whitey!
The media estimates for Sharpton’s rally were pretty uniformly 3000 or so. However, the only pics I’ve seen show a crowd unable to fill one side of a HS football field bleachers. I’d be surprised if there were as many as 7-800.
Were there ANY signs….ANY signs at all?
I saw 1 sign. It was held by a black man to my left and it said, “We represent the dream of Dr Martin Luther King Jr”
I saw three signs. One TEA-Party-ish sign carried by a man who apparently didn’t get them memo, and a couple more carried by three of the four people I saw who were obviously trying to disrupt the event (although I don’t know what the sign “I want a sandwich” has to do with anything).
Hey, you can’t fool me, I read the accounts of the “REAL” media. I know what happened on August 28 at the mall.
Glen Beck gave a speech in front of a Predominantly White Crowd was telling the Predominantly White Crowd what they should do to keep the Predominantly White Crowd’s position and traditions in the nation.
There were also many and varied speakers which made the Predominantly White Crowd cheer, even though the Predominantly White Crowd didn’t have a lot of signs, though some of the Predominantly White Crowd did wear T-Shirts with slogans that were obviously racist in nature.
Anywy, the Predominantly White Crowd of 300,000 plus numbered approximately 87,000 which were Predominantly White.
Meanwhile, Al Sharpton led Tens of people in what wasn’t a Predominantly White Crowd in a counter rally.
And that is what they said happened.
Judging by the tone of your report, I take it that there were one or two white people at the rally.
In foreign newspapers, the J-list used words such as “extreme right”, “Ultra-derecha” or “ultra-conservative” to describe the Beck DC rally….The lefties are so scared because, after November, they will have no jobs! The “ultra-extreme-conservative-right” party is going to win the elections and all of these good for nothing parasites that are radioactive to our society and liberty, what is going to became of them???
The Right Feeling Wronged and Jesus Camp documentaries sum up this group of bused in AstroTurf for the Freedom-works (Dick Army) and Koch Bros. enterprises, the curtain is being pulled back reich-wingers – and the truth shall set you free. Open your eyes and join real Americans whom wish to restore the real honor – growth and progress – that we lost due to the corporate greed, action and policies of the Bush dictatorship and tyranny. This November, let’s remove the teabaggers and their ilk and give them the pink slips they earned under Bush and deserve in their obstruction to saving our country from the 8 years of destruction known as the Bush administration.
“Let’s remove the teabaggers” huh? You have no idea of what’s coming this November, do you?
I can’t wait to see your reaction after the Mid-Terms. I would almost feel sorry for you…almost.
JJ – Your post has made me see the light. You are right, the job growth and economic progress under BHO has been impressive. And Bush – that evil, evil man that was president 2 years ago – clearly his power is so great it continues to control our lives long after his departure from power.
Isn’t it funny that when 9/11 happened, the lefties all said it was Bush’s problem, because Clinton was out of the WH for over 8 months and Bush had plenty of time to assume all responsibility under his watch! But here we are nearly two years into The Won’s term and everything is STILL Bush’s fault?
Here’s the size of it from where I stand.
There’s a reality that can be denied no longer. Barack Obama became President under the most false of pretenses.
Piling up lie after lie about what you believe in and what you intend to do to transform America, to me, is a high crime.
It’s like somebody being elected Pope who swears an oath on the bible but doesn’t believe in Catholicism. Obama’s a fraud of the highest order. He can’t defend the Constitution because he doesn’t believe in constitutional rights. He may be a constitutional lawyer. But that’s like a Japanese admiral prior to WW2 who studies at USC to gain knowledge of the enemy.
This constitutional lawyer doesn’t believe in the constitution. It’s irony of the highest order.
Maybe I’m just speaking for me, but I believe Obama has lost the consent of the governed because he’s no less than a national fraud. He’s a socialist/marxist actively working toward the downfall and destruction of the United States of America. The enormity of the reality isn’t lost on me. We have a United States President in office who hates and despises everything this country stands for: truth, justice, freedom, individual property rights, free enterprise. You name it. Obama hates it.
Thank goodness for the 25th amendment. Is it a stretch to think it covers this insane circumstance? Of course. But with the life of the nation on the line, there’s only one decision that can be reached.
We have a mole in the White House.
The 25th Amendment. This is the removal process. A new legal theory is born. Citizen nullification.
Yamamoto thought picking a fight with America was madness; Obama ain’t as bright as Yamamoto.
I agree, I wonder many there are, like us, who would be happy to see this man impeached ASAP, before he drags the US any lower. You would think joining the UN’s Human Rights Commission would be the last straw, then he has an anti-US report given a committee set up mainly to bash Israel, all this and he still gets a 45% approval rate.
“We have a United States President in office who hates and despises everything this country stands for: truth, justice, freedom, individual property rights, free enterprise. You name it. Obama hates it.”
I would need to see some examples of what Obamba has done to make you spout this nonsense. I will refute every one.
If he loved the country so much, why did he campaign on “Change”, AKA “5 days away from fundamentally transforming this country”.
Obama elected under false pretenses? I think the reich-wing and GWBush had more to do with President Obama being elected. The thought of a VP or President Sarah Palin didn’t hurt either.
Your summation is so wrong from the first word, there is no need to address it. 8 years of destructive policies of the Bush administration and the lack of an intelligent leader were the real reasons. The embarrassment of the Bush years will take generations to recover from. We lost our morality (torture, illegal wars), global positioning as a leader (worst economy in the past 80 years) and ideology (stolen elections, fixed elections Florida 2000, Ohio, 2004) – all sold and presented as faux “patriotism and religion”. Sheep are so easily misled.
You’re projecting your own wet dreams again, Jim.
And yet you were silent when Bush totally ignored the Constitution. Why?
Care to cite exactly where he ‘ignored the Constitution? Specific examples will be acceptable.
And yet you missed the flying saucer while the rest of the Heaven’s Gate crew soared off to glory. Why?
But hey, it’s not too late. Just grab yourself a set of clean Nikes, pound down a cyanide cocktail and cover youself with a SEIU-purple sheet. Utopia awaits!
Where is Androcles.
There is a thorn in the paw of the body politic of the American Republic. Which thorn NOBODY notices except a bunch of loonies who think removal of the thorn necessary to healing the infection evident from the heat generated by this infected lion. None of the “doctors” of the nation, Congress or Court, notice the thorn, or think it worthwhile examining, or noticing the septic infection need for examination, prognosis and treatment.
It’s not only the birth certificate virus , but the Democratic National Committee decision to field this particular “lion” as candidate for “King”. WHO decided this? Shouldn’t we be told ? What do they know OR CARE about the US Constitution ? For example we have a Democratic Congressman Phil Hare from Illinois on record as saying “We in the Congress don’t care about the Constitution”.
Where is the JournoList to examine the DNC’s decision. What are the “healers” in Congress and Court doing to extract the thorn and treat the infection now septic ? Without excision and treatment the septicaemia may end in the demise of the body politic of the USA.
All for lack of an Androcles, or for want of a nail …?
Good creative title for this article, good job.
Koch industries had their start in Russia, after being trampled over in America by Standard Oil and the rest of the Oil barons in early part of the 1900′s. Stalin saw the potential in their technology and patents and invited them to build Russia’s refinery system. Koch industries had its start in communist Russia, its not good or bad, its just the way it is. Business was above board and operated in the open, there does not appear to be anything evil in this regard.
It was the Petroleum cartels that forced Koch out of the US, Russia welcomed them with open arms and the rest is History. It can be argued that Russia was able to assist victory in WW2 due to their refinery processing capacity, which Koch industries helped build.
Hopefully the Tea Party continues moving to pressure the American people to vote against the current regime in Washington. I am not referring to President Obama in particular, but the stranglehold held on America by Banking cartels. From this cartel springs all our miseries.
Maybe its a good thing, the Koch family knows first hand how monopolies can oppress a better way to do business, as their father was run over by American Petroleum barons.
The same environment exists in banking, a few select families are managing the US banking system, and excluding better ways so they protect their profits. If the Koch family can help break the Banking monopoly held by the Federal Reserve, by all means do their best.
God, Gold and Guns.
Yes, ol’ Grandpa Koch took advantage of the compassionate, caring society established in Russia at the time to establish his empire of exploitation because the existing American plutocracy wouldn’t give a chance. When the communists tried to put a check on his unbridled greed, he merely returned to America where he could make unlimited by mercilessly abusing the working class and the environment.
What a hypocrite!
Well, why doesn’t the Tea Party fight for a compassionate society with rights to food, housing, health, and income for all? This would be a way to crush the oil and banking plutocracy and do much good with the wealth seized from it.
“Well, why doesn’t the Tea Party fight for a compassionate society with rights to food, housing, health, and income for all?”
Probably because the members don’t feel like paying the bills of deadbeat, commie parasites.
Kind of the whole point of the movement.
And ponies. We should all have the right to have ponies.
Throbbin, in fact they are: the open, self-directed, self-regulating “capitalist” society they advocate is the most successful at delivering all those things to everyone history can offer.
Hell, we’ve done it so well that we regularly worry that our poor people are too fat
And cake. Don’t forget cake. There’s going to be cake for everyone in the new Utopia, isn’t there?
A right to food, housing, etc…? Really? Communist claptrap!
The world does NOT owe you something because you are here!
You guys just can’t get it through your heads that no one controls the tea parties, can you? You don’t understand us, and you won’t understand why you’re consigned to the dustbin of history. It’s a little sad, really, that you’ll go down to defeat not knowing why it’s happening to you…
Ordinary people wouldn’t have to pay for any of it. If we seize the wealth from the petroleum barons and banksters dining on lobster and caviar we could easily provide all of those things and pay off the remaining debts as well.
If we seize the wealth from…
*sigh* Alas, you will never get it. May God forget you were ever counted among my countrymen. YOU have chosen the side of evil my friend.
I sure hope that’s sarcasm. Nobody could actually be that stupid.
Sadly, history suggests you’re mistaken.
Throbbin, I suggest you might want to look up the story of the goose that laid golden eggs.
If you don’t think that someone can be that stupid, I suggest you take another look at the Congress of the United States.
Why do you choose to live in the US? Seizing wealth from business seems more in line with Venezuela or Cuba doesn’t it? Here in America everyone is free to earn and keep what they make with no limits!
You couldn’t be more wrong. If you took all of Bill Gates’ and Warren Buffett’s wealth and divided it among the “ordinary people” the people would each get about $400 (approx.$100B/250M). Substitute any oil or bank people and the result’s the same. When that money runs out after a week, you have 250M people who need to eat and pay bills, while companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people and generate tax revenue would be destroyed. You cannot help ordinary people by destroying wealth, you help them by creating it. Destroying wealth creates more poor people, which is only desirable if you are in power and you think governing poor people makes it easier to preserve your power – that is evil and that is what ordinary people (i.e. Tea Party) are fighting.
I would think the Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch or the Saudi Prince, his muslim partner in crime; might take exception to being called “ordinary”.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/frankrich/index.html
How do you know this?
Is that what they told you?
They also told you there were WMD’s in Iraq, that we were winning the War in Vietnam, that Kennedy was killed by a lone gunmen and that it was a weather balloon that crashed on the fateful day in Roswell. Do you beieve in all of that crap too? The greedy overlords fear what would happen if people actually establish a caring, compassionate society. That is why they do not want you to escape the din of propaganda you’re parroting.
Yob, there were WMDs in Iraq, we were winning in VietNam, it was an espionage black ops balloon not a weather balloon at Roswell, and I’ll pass on the Kennedy conspiracy theories. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
…create more poor people… desirable if you are in power and think governing poor people … that is evil and what ordinary people, the Tea Party are fighting:
I’ve changed your words “governing poor people” to CONTROLLING poor people,.. for the means of their livllihoods. Evil. BUT THERE IS A TELLING WORD, recognisable even to persons who refuse to recognize that evil exists, AND to persons who vote for the persons whose aim is to controlling them.
That word is SLAVERY !
Only an utter moron fails (or refuses) to understand that 100% CONFISCATION of the incomes of the top 20% of income earners would sustain THIS government for about 35 DAYS!
There is a great quote from Margaret Thatcher that goes something like this: “Socialism works fine until you run out of rich people’s money.” Too many people on the wagon and not enough people pulling. Anyway, why would anyone pull if so much of the money you make will just get taken away from you in the form of taxes that get spent on dumb stuff like stimuli (stimulusses?) that don’t work. Another point, who creates jobs? Either people who are already rich or people who hope to get rich by working hard. So, put on your thinking cap and figure out what happens if we discourage rich people…..
Confiscate the wealth from the lobster and caviar-eating? Great. Let’s start with Obama. Of course, as others have pointed out, you could take every penny from everyone in the US making more than $250k, and not come NEAR getting the US out of debt.
“Well, why doesn’t the Tea Party fight for a compassionate society with rights to food, housing, health, and income for all? This would be a way to crush the oil and banking plutocracy and do much good with the wealth seized from it.”
Because this isn’t fairy-land, and if you want something, you have to WORK for it. Did you miss the history class in school where they talked about the USSR, or are you simply too young to have been thus educated yet?
Wealth is much more concentrated in the United States than income. For example, the top 5 percent of income earners make about 5.5 times what the average person in the lower 95% makes. As far as wealth goes though, the top 5 percent of wealth owners have on the average twenty three times more than the average 95% below them.
“If we seize the wealth from the petroleum barons and banksters…”
But, I own stocks in oil companies, so this approach has little appeal to me.
Instead, I prefer the Pinochet approach.
1.) Round up the worst of the commies and shoot them.
2.) Beat the living crap out of lefties that are sympathetic to the commies. Let ‘em rot in prison for a year or three, just to show them the error of their ways.
3.) Then, while the scumbags that once announced they intended to rob you are comfortably relaxing in graveyards and dungeons…kick back and enjoy some caviar (yuck…tastes like fish eggs) and lobster.
“Ordinary people wouldn’t have to pay for any of it. If we seize the wealth from the petroleum barons and banksters dining on lobster and caviar we could easily provide all of those things and pay off the remaining debts as well.”
Yeah? And after that money is gone, then what?
You’re like a guy getting a cash advance on his VISA card, blowing the money on a week at the Hyatt, then wondering where he’s gonna sleep next week. Then the VISA bill comes in the mail. Sheesh, its like explaining math to the cat.
How can you criticize the USSR and then ask “why doesn’t the Tea Party fight for a compassionate society with rights to food, housing, health, and income for all?”
That was what the USSR was all about. You are really dumb or a parody.
Well, why doesn’t the Tea Party fight for a compassionate society with rights to food, housing, health, and income for all?
Because that would make us communists!
Thanks, Alex, I liked it too. But I want to point out we picked it up from a commenter, “JackB”, on the previous article.
Oh yes. Not to forget Armand Hammer, Occidental Petroleum also a bosom buddy of the Politburo.
Good that many people went; an important rally. At the same time, I have no real idea what Mr. Beck’s ambitions are, or if he is now a stalking horse for Sarah Palin. I read that this event included a certain kind of silent engagement between Evangelicals and the Mormon Beck. That’s interesting. Beck is increasingly speaking of G-d.
General question – do the Evangelicals ‘own’ the American conservative movement? Are secular and non-Christian conservatives going to be marginalized in the backwash of a kind of Revival Tent Evangelism (I have lived in West Virginia and have seen the actual revivals, which were certainly interesting). I am sure to be accused of ‘hating’ Christianity, and that’s fine, but I am puzzled by these developments. I mean, I fully recognize that not a lot of Jews will become conservatives, but I wonder if ‘moderate’ or secular or atheist Christians will grow increasingly uneasy with these events. I don’t know if they should or not, but Beck conjures up a pretty rustic kind of populism.
As to Sarah Palin, I’ll repeat something I’ve written before – interesting lady, courageous and all. But pretty easy game for a decent Democratic candidate, I think.
I think the big challenge for conservatives is to create an alternative to a Palin candidacy, though it looks like Palin will be representing the Evangelical wing and by default, or logic, a Romney type will go against her. I wonder if that’s exactly what the Democrats want. And no, I won’t be voting Democrat.
“atheist Christians”
Dude, you make me laugh. How about a Gentile Jew? How many of those in the Silicon?
I think by “secular or atheist Christians” we are to understand “persons who are culturally Christian (celebrate the Christian holidays) but don’t actually believe in or follow the tenets of Christianity (have never accepted or even really considered the idea of Jesus Christ as the Son of God or their Lord and Savior).” There are many such, as I’m sure you are aware.
However, I suppose it is possible to be an “atheist Christian” if you believe that a man named Jesus lived 2000 years ago, preached and taught, and was called the Christ by his followers, and you like [h]is moral philosophy and attempt to practice it, but don’t believe in [H]is divinity. In contrast to the “secular Christian,” I imagine that authentic examples of such persons are quite rare.
Evangelicals owning the Conservative movement? Sort of, yes. Regular church-goers are overwhelmingly Conservative. (Unless the go to one of these revisionist churches which use only the parts they like. Morals of convenience.)
The less one goes to church, the more to the left on the political spectrum one tends to be.
The Far Left is filled with vile individuals: Liars; Thugs; Cheats; Crooks; immoral beings of all kinds. Why? Because they have a humanistic religion. You are pious if you support the Party line and agenda. They do not care how vile you are outside of that. Such considerations do not even enter their realm. Just look at all the scum in Obama’s WH to understand what I mean. You can do whatever you want, as long as you are a fellow-traveler. Their politics IS their religion.
So, Larry, I have questions for you. These evangelicals, these conservatives, do you really believe you have anything to fear from them? Would not any one of them make a good neighbor to you? Or would you rather have one of Obama’s crowd move next door?
I’m a churchgoing believer in Jesus Christ. As the rally on Saturday was unfolding–about 90 minutes in, I started to get an uncomfortable feeling as in, “Come on, guys, let’s not screw this up and make it look like a national religious rally so that the conservatives can be accused (again) of wanting a theocracy.” So I gave voice to that on another news site. Guess what? The athiests and agnostics (self-identified regulars) on the site were the ones who responded….saying, “Hey, this is NOT an issue for us! Glenn Beck was referencing HIS faith, not demanding that we accept it. The speakers were referencing THEIR OWN walk of faith–they were not demanding that America be governed according to their experience.” One agnostic has even expressed that the safest place in the world today for an agnostic or athiest is America…where the foundational principals guarantee that they will be left alone, their livelihood and personal safety will never be threatened.
Gee I wonder if Harry Reid was able to “Smell the Tourists” at the rally.
Mr. Martin, use this website as a tool to assess the square footage/acreage of each of the areas covered by the attendees, then apply your density formula. I measured the open area to the side of the reflecting pool, including the area beneath the trees, to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 acres. I wasn’t there to observe where the crowds were and weren’t, so I’ll leave that to others.
http://www.acme.com/planimeter
Turfman, pop over to the previous article. That’s precisely what I did except I used Google Earth.
That Planimeter tool looks handier than my method, thanks for linking it.
The minorities did show up.
about 3000 per mile.
http://www.examiner.com/cultural-events-in-washington-dc/rally-day-washington-d-c-picture?slide=21404721
But according to Charlie Martin’s photos and video by Fox “News” they didn’t appear at GB’s rally.
Larry in the Silicon, your subjective conclusions are interesting to me.
I live in NYC, don’t belong to any church however I do believe in God and I attended this rally because I wanted to honor those who serve in the US Armed Forces. My friend who legally immigrated from the Ukraine to America in the early 1990′s is an atheist who ABHORS the Socialist Left came to this rally because he LOVES the US Constitution. Beck is a Libertarian and belongs to a Mormon church, Palin is a Conservative and belongs to a Pentecostal church. I often hear MSM and Ruling Class pundits claim that Mitt Romney lost his bid for the White House because Evangelicals hate Mormons.
In order to answer your own question “do the Evangelicals ‘own’ the American conservative movement? Are secular and non-Christian conservatives going to be marginalized in the backwash of a kind of Revival Tent Evangelism” I would encourage you to spend a moment at the Reflection Pool located between the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial; perhaps this will help you to see your own provincial myopia which you are projecting upon the Big Tent called America.
By the way; I do not question your religion, I question your narrow-minded provincial perception.
“Their propaganda has actually convinced ordinary White people that Muslims, Blacks, and Hispanics”
When did Muslim become a race and why is ‘hating Whitey’ an acceptable form of overtly intolerant racism?
So there are some people making negative and hateful assumptions solely based on the color of the skin of the people involved, rather on the content of the speech. Who exactly are the racists here?
I think you could say that the higher end of your charts are correct. I was under the trees by the port-o-johns (unfortunately the only spot I could find and see a part of one of the jumbotrons – oh well). Even in this less-than-perfect spot, I was shoulder-to-shoulder with others…there were people sitting in the collapsible ‘sports’ chairs, but they were packed together pretty well. The area under the trees where I was was definitely to capacity. And when you have people standing in between port-o-johns to be able to see the jumbotron, I’d say you’ve packed the place out pretty well.
The President said he paid no attention to this rally. A thoughtful man would have said that every American is entitled to free speech and the right of assembly.
Your second sentence beautifully explains the first.
Obama only listens to enemies of America.
He only saves his thoughtful responses for Mosque’s!
Perhaps the majority of folks at Beck’s rally were retired and the minorities that would like to have attended, but were NOT there were WORKING. Al Sharpton’s crowd is forever waiting for others to provide for them.
I remember hearing MLKs speech and I believe that he would completely dissaprove of Sharpton trying to hog ownership of his wise message. We, the People understand and support that message of ‘the character, not the color of a man’….sadly, Sharpton makes his loot by preaching and KEEPING any and all colors eternal victims.
We, the People are not buying such carnival barker rhetoric.
Did you noticed that FNC refused to cover the Restoring Honor rally? They ran pre-recorded business shows Saturday and didn’t even show the rally as a news feed at their web site. The FNC news anchors Saturday pretended it wasn’t happening and kept to the script about the 5 year anniversary of Katrina. Today they are still ignoring it on FNC. Only Chris Wallace on regular Fox interviewed Genn Beck after the rally. Were the FNC anchors given orders to pretend it didn’t happen?
Apparently not, since as you say Chris Wallace interviewed Back on Fox News Sunday — which runs on FNC as well.
I tweeted to America’s News headquarters when the reported with the ‘tens of thousands’ line that can’t they even report the truthful number when it is by one of their own!
However, maybe Beck requested that they not make this political…
I was at the rally. A few observations:
The pictures you post here are very conservative indeed, as they are from quite early in the day. The infrastructure in D.C. was completely inadequate to get everybody to the rally – the wait just to get ON a metro train was 2 to 3 hours by 9:00 AM. The rally started at 10:00 AM. In some places they ran out of paper tickets in the machines to get on the metro and so just opened the gates and let everybody get on for free. As a result of all this, there was a very large, completely steady stream of people filing into the rally from the Smithsonian and Foggy Bottom metro stops the entire day. I have film footage from 11:30 AM, when I’d walked up to the Washington Monument, of this uninterrupted stream of folks just continuing to come by the thousands – all day long. In fact, many people that were in Washington were not able to get to the rally at all before it was over!
The areas of green spacing in the field to the left that you see in this picture were filled in by the end of the rally, as was a very large portion of the .4 mile or so lawn between the Washington monument and the WWII memorial. This area is not seen in many of the pictures, and there were LOTS of people there. The space between the Monument and the reflecting pool always looks like a relatively small lawn when you see it from the Lincoln Memorial, looking past the reflecting pool. So I was shocked at how large a space it actually is when I walked over there. It’s about .4 miles long and 150 yards wide, between the two sidewalks.
You’re also right about the trees – there were literally tens of thousands of people under these trees, from the very beginning of the rally – they were trying to escape the heat, which is a very sensible personal position if not a highly media-savvy one. The people who came later had no choice but to stand in the heat, but many of those “first comes” were in the shade.
So don’t ignore the huge lawn from the Washington Monument to the World War II Memorial, which by the end of the day was quite full. That lawn is a huge space, much larger than the space at the reflecting pool, and is largely being ignored. But I have video of it nearly full at the end of the day, and I’m sure many others do as well. Also, don’t ignore the rather unquantifiable fact that this rally continued to swell, unabated, even when the rally was finished, as the D.C. metro system was simply unable to handle all the people going to the rally and many just couldn’t get there.
via AP, “Conservative commentator Glenn Beck and tea party champion Sarah Palin appealed Saturday to a vast, predominantly white crowd”
The USA is predominantly (75%, 228 million) white…in other news, water is wet.
Conversely, the counter-rally was OVERWHELMINGLY black.
Actually only about 2/3 (200 million) of the total U.S. population are white. Latinos, Blacks, Asians, and Native Americans make up the rest. GB’s rally like most Tea Party rallies appears to be 98%-99% white.
Using the Orange Bowl was not a good metric, since the Orange Bowl had one end open and unoccupied by bleachers until a later date. Seating renovations also increased it’s capacity. It originally had picnic bench style stadium seating.
The Orange Bowl Marathon used to finish there, and it was also a venue for concerts and parades.
With all the cameras, satellites, and other well established crowd measuring metrics used by the D.C. Police and the Parks Service, accurate figures can be established to a high degree. But these days EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL.
With a nod to PAthena response #6 above, I was also at the rally and arrived around ten minutes to eleven. This appears to have been close to the peak of the crowd density which was sardine like for the full mile of the area from the World War II monument to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I spent one and a half hours trying to shove my way up the area towards the Jumbo Trons outside the area in front of the Lincoln Monument so I could at least hear or maybe even see who was speaking. In spite of a very aggressive attempt and some strong middle age woman pushing through ahead of me(don’t they always lead the way in tough situations?)I never got more than 200 yards from the front of the Lincoln Monument.
The crowd desity was intense and as PAthena said above was 2.5 to 5 ft. per person sounds right. That would mean about 500,000 to 600,000 people which also sounds about right having been there.
Thankfully America is a Christian nation. Our religion and the bible are proof that blacks, browns, poor, gays, union workers, etc. are not the true Americans. We want our America back.
What you said is evil, ignorant or you’re an agent provocateur from the left.
You’ve got to be kidding me. No one believes that crap, and you know it. Go away.
Good grief – here is a conundrum… Is Edward A. truly a racist lunatic, blasphemous in his distortion of Christianity?
Or is Edward A. a troll, gleefully typing his adolescent attempt to draw praise for his racists lunacy and thus fulfill his pre-conceived notions, nurtured by hours upon hours of MSNBC (et al)?
I choose troll. But little difference does it make – such bigoted comments are unwelcome and will not go unchallenged.
I vote troll.
Good grief – this is a conundrum… Is Edward A. truly a racist lunatic?
Or is Edward A. a troll, gleefully typing his adolescent attempt to slander Christians and whites by drawing praise for his racist lunacy and thus fulfill his pre-conceived notions, nutured by hours upon hours of MSNBC (et al)?
I choose troll. But little difference does it make – such bigotted comments are unwelcome and will not go unchallenged.
Buffoon…
We don’t care what color a person is on the outside, we care what color they are on the inside.
1. Red on the inside means he is a communist who thinks I owe him my labor.
2. Black on the inside means he hates people in general and wants to get back at them by eliminating them. (Lots of Envirowackos in this group).
Unions are now believing that I owe them their ridiculous pensions that corrupt politicians promised them. Nope.
Get lost, Moby.
That was the short version of my comment. Here’s the long one:
Hey, Edward A. Moby, if you were a real Christian instead of a troll, you would know your Scripture:
“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” – Galatians 3:26-29
God makes no distinctions of skin color or race or wealth or heritage or gender (would use the correct word here, a word of three letters ending in x, but the firewall might not like it) or even union membership [:eyeroll:], so long as we observe and keep His Commandments. One of those Commandments is “Thou shalt not bear false witness” — maybe you’ve heard that one? In small words that you, Edward A. Moby, can understand, that means, “Don’t lie.” So quit lying. And if you can’t do that — get lost, Moby.
“Get lost, Moby.”
That was the short version of my comment. Here’s the long one:
Hey, Edward A. Moby, if you were a real Christian instead of a troll, you would know your Scripture:
“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” – Galatians 3:26-29
God makes no distinctions of skin color or race or wealth or heritage or gender (would use the correct word here, a word of three letters ending in x, but the firewall might not like it) or even union membership [:eyeroll:], so long as we observe and keep His Commandments. One of those Commandments is “Thou shalt not bear false witness” — maybe you’ve heard that one? In small words that you, Edward A. Moby, can understand, that means, “Don’t lie.” So quit lying. And if you can’t do that — get lost, Moby.
Moby Alert! Moby Alert!
You ain’t one of us pal…so take a hike back to DU or Huffpo or DKos or whichever rock you crawled out from under.
You are an Ass-hat. Go back to Daily Kos and stop trolling here.
I just want to express my appreciation to Charlie Martin for tackling the crowd size in objective fashion. Based on everything I have seen, it seems pretty clear that 300,000 is a reasonable minimum, and 500,000 or more is not at all unrealistic.
Although there hasn’t been much downplaying of the crowd size by those on the left on this thread – probably because the methodology is well spelled out here and is conservative to boot – it amuses me very much that the ‘reality-based’ community is having so much trouble grasping the reality (both the magnitude and the motivation) of this event.
The “reality-based” community is terrified and therefore in denial.
An interestingas pect is that years from now there will be thousands more people claiming they were there…even if they were still in Dallas or Atlanta or Cleveland. Take it to the bank.
The building code indicates 7 SF per person in standing assembly occupancies such as occur at concerts etc. That is 2′ x 3.5′ and allows people to move. The floor is designed to carry 100 PSF, so a 300# person would be in 1.5′ x 2′ the really crowded train etc. Airplanes in coach are 18″ x 30″ or 3.75 SF per person and that is with seats.
Close inspection of a portion of the picture can determine how packed an area is. Selecting 10 spot areas around the crowd at random can provide a density, average it and apply it to the crowd.
Alternatively, look at the metro capacity as to the capacity of the system and how long did people arrive.
The NPS used to publish attendance at the 4th fireworks every year. Comparison of photos from those to this would give a good metric.
It would be interesting to see a photo from 1963 MLK speech from the same vantage point on the Washington Monument. That would be a good basis of comparison on the crowd size.
Everytime one of the GOP splinter groups (T-Party, Beck,Palin etc) have a rally they always have to “jump through hoops” trying to prove that a really good crowd actually bothered to show up. Fox news and the right wing media always say there were millions and the MSM always reduces the numbers, and they fight and argue about it for a week or so after. Hence the issues usually become about how many showed up, rather than why and/or what they actually showed up for, if anything. I am not sure why this always is but if they want to rally and people show up its ok by me. America needs these folks right not, the mainstream “powers that be” have all run off with their power and money and all thats left are these types. But hey, at least they are there aint they?
I attended the rally. Between the Lincoln Memorial and the WWII Memorial, it was about 2.5 SF per person. Between the WWII Memorial and the Washington Monument, it was around 10 SF.
It should also be pointed out that there were many more people sitting in the WWII Memorial when I walked through at 12:30 p.m. than were in the photo.
I attended the University of Tennessee, and Neyland Stadium holds around 110,000. I’m used to seeing crowds entering and exiting the stadium all at once. There were definitely more people at the rally than a TN football game. I estimated the crowd to be around 300,000, which matched the guesstimate of a law enforcement professional I know who was working the rally.
I live in the DC area, and just heard that Metro had just over 500,000 people over the weekend. Numbers for Friday night and Sunday should be accounted for, as well as the National’s game and the Sharpton rally. That would match my estimate of around 300,000.
We were stuck on the Metro for about 20 minutes as they had to open the gates to allow the folks exit. We were told our station had a backlog of 6200 riders in the station trying to get out before our train was able to u nload us. We thank the Metro staff and the Fire Dept. for avoiding a mishap. I have no idea how many trains were invovled. But we were crowded all day and the idea of personal space was thrown out the window.
P.S. Everyone was polite and courtesy as befits civil society.
I have just had enough of this nonsense. Why doesn’t someone just count the names in the Guest Book? Oh, they forgot the Guest Book. Damn.
Well, next time make it a priority. No one gets in without signing in, fingerprinted, DNA tested and a photograph. That’ll do it.
Oh, the Lame Stream Media still won’t acknowledge the legitimacy of all those white Americans with some black Americans getting together to “pull together” for America? Not a problem; in no time at all most of the Lame Stream Media will be as extinct as a DoDo bird.
JGreene, honestly, I’d settle for having someone take a series of good aerial or satellite photographs over the course of the day. Aerial is probably more practical, as satellites have a tendency to come over on their own damn schedule whether you like it or not.
And that top 5% also pay the lion’s share of the taxes.
But you already knew that…I’m sure.
An attendee of both events, Powerline’s Paul Mirengoff compares the crowds for the “Restoring Honor” rally and the March on Washington. The crowd estimate for the latter, I believe, was 200,000.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/08/027106.php
Sukie, check the last couple grafs:
Now, I’d take the estimate of twice the size of the March on Washington with a little caution, but the density point is interesting.
“The embarrassment of the Bush years will take generations to recover from. We lost our morality (torture…”
I’ve always admired the ability of liberals to burn 100,000 Japanese men, women and children alive at Hiroshima one day, and then recoil in horror when a terrorist gets his head dunked in the water the next day.
Interesting sort of morals these boys have.
Al Sharpton is on O’Reilly right now. Bill showed a clip of Sharpton’s speech on 8/28 saying that 8/28 is “Our day”. He was surrounded by black people on stage. That seems racist to me. To paraphrase what “A Real American” posted above: ‘The attendees still appear to be almost all black. How can a movement talk about Dr. King and at the same time appear to be unwelcoming to nonblacks?’ What I paraphrased was just as silly a statement as Real American made…
I’ve heard Sharpton talke about Beck’s rally three times now, and he seems upset that Glenn Back did not talk about what Sharpton expected him to talk about…?? what?
Peeps—
Settle on down and chill out. Y’all are riding piggyback with your comments on someone else’s dime. Libs won’t change conservatives, nor vice-versa.
Instead of wasting hours running up a thread like this, about which no one will ever get a publishing contract, go start your own blog and pontificate to your heart’s desire.
It becomes tedious to see all the schoolyard “he said, I did not” sort of stuff. My humble little site, which is self-described as being written for me, myself and I, actually gets comments. I have permanently deleted well over 90% because folks just don’t focus and discuss matters in civilized fashion.
I admit “comments” are easier . . . you can “one-point” something and wait for the same stuff from the other side.
Nothing written above in this comment section will change a thing in the lives of any of us. Do something serious, like get out and actually be a factor (beyond tapping a computer screen for “D” or “R”). Both parties have elected self-serving ego-centric idiots who use the system for their benefit, and not in the least for the electorate. Fix that!
Quit wasting time here shooting mental BB’s at each other, and git ‘r done!
Three types of people in this ole world:
1. Those who make it happen;
2. Those who watch it happen; and
3. Those who wonder what happened.
Skip the comments sections of postings, and shoot for No. 1.
I love reading the posts here, there are many whitty comments – thanks for the laughs.
I too was at the 8/28 Rally. I went because I wanted to ‘Honor’ our Military who are the ones who fight so we can peacefully assemble together. I went because I do want to Restore Honor in our America, for all her good and all her bad, she is still the greatest country in the world and we should honor her.
I believe the ‘message’ has always been there but, we have strayed from it over many, many years. We have ‘let’ the message be muddled by people who immigrate here and want to ‘change’ us, our laws and our traditions. If you come to America you should also be willing to assimilate and want to be American, be called “American”. Let me be clear, I am not against “legal” immigration. I am against the raping of America by ‘Illegals’. And those who have no alligence to our country.
The left for some reason, I would assume its the many years of brainwashing from the left, feels we should lower our standards, dumb down America. Why?
What is the point of that? ‘Social Justice’ is ruining America.
There are many who feel that having good personal ‘values’ is some kind of character defect. What’s the alternative?
Does anyone believe MLK would be proud of the way Mr Sharpton, Jessie, and that crew keeps the black man (not to mention other minorities) a victim for
their own financial gain? The left is very good at charity, so long as its charity with other peoples money. We don’t want ‘forced’ charity in America.
Has the progressive left, liberals, dems whatever their name is now ever thrown a shindig that was as peaceful, and had a positive ‘true’, honorable message. In recent memory – don’t recall. My only memory of a left gathering has been nasty, hateful and filled with distain for America and certain people in it.
I think many people should do some research on other countries their governments and how they treat their population – they can start with the middle east, cuba, africa, china, Venezula. Then when they find one they like they can move there…
I live down the street from a older woman who came to America as a ‘war bride’ from WWII. She still remembers when the “American Soldiers” came to ‘Liberate’ Belgium from the Nazi “occupation”. And, SHE STILL CRYS about it…
I will always stand up for America, her constitution, her ‘true’ history-the good and the bad. I Love my Country and I am not Ashamed of Her. nough said
For all you Hitchens fans out there . . .
http://www.slate.com/id/2265515/
That’s why I love the man.
Thanks, Betty, for proving a point. Neither you nor Hitchens debate the concerns of Beck or the Tea Party. Instead you introduce race. I am not calling you a racist. But to constantly bring race into national discussions of policy, ethics and history is (to me) as vile as racism itself.
Who said that Brack Obama is a racist and has a deep-seated hatred for white people? Who said that? Who called Obama a halfrican? Who said he got elected because he was black? As long as Beck is your spiritual leader and Limbaugh the head of your party, you’re gonna own the racism charge.
As for who said those things, look at Obama’s VP. hon.
I will admit that I don’t get Beck. Generally, I like it when leaders are unassuming or can at least fake it convincingly, but Beck just seems odd to me. That makes him less threatening than someone with a lot of charm and charisma, but he appears to be such a doofus, that it really is amazing to me that so many people would show up. He’s kind of the Mr Rogers of the right.
I did my own estimate by comparing the Martin Luther King rally to that of Glenn Beck. The MLK rally was estimated at 200k+. That crowd was around the reflecting pool. If you compare that area to the visuals of the Beck crowd you have to conclude that 500,000 is a very conservative estimate of the attendence.
The Numbers Game and Glenn Beck’s Restoring Honor Rally
The results are in on Saturday’s Restoring Honor rally in Washington and the news isn’t good for the news media.
The MSM seem to become arithmetically-challenged when it comes to counting heads at conservative gatherings or, dare I suggest, once again biased against reporting the truth at those get-togethers for the purpose of slanting their reporting.
It happened just over a year ago at the 2009 “9/12 Project’s” March on Washington organized by former Repubican Rep. Dick Armey, the Freedom Works Foundation, and Glenn Beck which drew upwards of a million participants to D.C. The mainstream media reported that thousands and upwards of 100,000 were in attendance.
Now, that’s a highly significant undercount especially since hundreds of pictures clearly revealed that the crowds were far more massive than “thousands” or even a paltry hundred thousand.
Why the liberal mainstream media feel compelled to lie and distort attendance numbers, inflating liberal rally figures and deflating conservative turn-outs, is no mystery.
That compulsion and that distortion are rooted in a deep-seated insecurity as to the honesty and validity of their leftist beliefs but, even worse, they reflect a contempt for the integrity of their journalistic profession and a total disregard for their ethical responsibilities.
It happened again at the Beck non-partisan Restoring Honor rally last Saturday which by happenstance took place on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s memorable “I Have a Dream” speech and at the same venue of that address, the Lincoln Memorial.
CBS estimated the crowd at 83,000, ABC at “more than 100,000,” NBC said, “tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands, the Associated Press described a ”sea of people standing shoulder to shoulder” as a crowd numbering “tens of thousands.” Beck and special guest Sarah Palin guessed anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000 and Rep. Michelle Bachman a cool million: http://tiny.cc/zthma
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1874)
I was there and definitely in a box less than 24″ x 30″. My position was stage left, within viewing distance from 2nd Jumbo-tron, barely in the shade of the trees. I had to tuck my feet to the side to avoid hitting the guy in front of me.
Why do so many waste their time, energy and intelligence trying to counter, engage, discuss, or converse with people who are even within their own groups patent liars, known to be such by observers. Who influence with their lies and distortions only other persons like themselves who wouldn’t accept the truth if it hit them in the face.
Such such are the “elite” communicators in the establishment “news”, comment entertainment and educational media for the past half century who have an axe to grind. Having “got away with” their lies for all that time, they are “consitutionally” unable see them for the lies they are: the three wise monkeys, no ?
Dear “Real American” if you really think your comments about race are ‘real American’ you are truly a deluded ‘closet racist’!
No, not at all. I don’t believe that one ethnic group is superior to another. I’m simply asking why GB’s rally was 98%-99% white. If that question make you feel uncomfortable, you should consider what you might be in the closet about.
Mr. “Real American”, your comments really are rather tedious. The problem is that you are asking the wrong people. Ask the people that did not attend why they didn’t. Anyone who wanted to come would have been welcome. Unlike the stereotype that the media has been trying to create about conservative rallies, be they Tea Party or Restoring Honor or others, they are not hate-fests and there is never any violence unless it is instigated by others (I’d love for you to be able to provide a single example). The crowds are pleasant, welcoming, they clean up after themselves, and any outside whacko-agitators are quickly identified and ostracized.
It is pretty obvious that you seem to think that a lack of minority attendees somehow invalidates the rally. Why do you think that? I suspect that many blacks considered the rally to be anti-Obama, even though it was never billed as such. The fact is that leading up to the rally the media treated it as likely to be at least somewhat political and Tea Party connected. Given Obama’s over 90% approval rating among blacks, I suspect that many / most blacks would be inclined to stay away. Oh, and why was Al Sharpton’s rally “mostly black”? Is “mostly black” good or bad? Please explain your answer and provide specific examples to back it up.
Of course, harping on the whiteness (or the lack thereof) of any crowd, rally, meeting, or whatever, is simply a means of trying to denigrate it when you have no arguments of substance. Why don’t you explain to the rest of us just what is was about the rally that was bad? What was said that you find objectionable? What was said that a black or other minority would object to but a white person would not? I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for a response.
By the way, I was amused to see a photo of President Obama meeting with some 30 plus other people seated or standing around a large table. It was captioned ‘President Obama meets with largely white group’. The point is, that many, many rallies and demonstrations are largely white, but since they are left / liberal rallies, the media and others such as yourself tend to ignore that inconvenient truth. Anti-war and environmental rallies come immediately to mind. And of course those rallies tend to be filled with quite a bit of hateful speech and violence, to say nothing of leaving a major clean-up task behind. I’ll be happy to provide book, chapter and verse. But you first.
I never stated that GB’s rally was hate filled or violent. Your projecting there. One could ask why but instead lets move on. On matters than I really have discussed, all I have done is ask questions.
Your assumption that I believe a “lack of minority attendees somehow invalidates the rally” is also false. I do question the credibility of the rally; due to the near total absence of minorities but that is not the same thing. On your obsession with blacks, I’ll remind you that they are not the only minorities in this country. Together with Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans, minorities make up 1/3 of the U.S. population.
Your suggestion that GB’s rally was not directly connected to the Tea Party is absurd. It was funded, organized, and promoted not just by various Tea Party organizations but by the Tea Party’s two highest profile people (Beck and Palin).
On your disingenuous question of Al Sharpton’s rally being “mostly black”, common sense should have told you that the majority of DC’s population is black and as such so would be his rally. If Al Sharpton were to have rallies with hundreds of thousands of attendees that were 99% black all over the country, I would question if his organization is welcome to non-blacks. That isn’t the case though.
Your comment about liberal rallies being “largely white” is true because the U.S. is a white majority country. But anti-war and pro-environment rallies will typically be 60%-70% white not the 98%-99% that GB’s rally was.
Now that I’ve answered your “questions” book, chapter, and verse; can you now answer the questions that I’ve been asking? Why was GB’s rally almost only attended by white people? Why do minorities not appear to be supporting the Tea Party movement?
“Real American”, you didn’t answer the most important questions at all. What was said or done at the GB rally that you find objectionable? If you merely find any crowd that is, as you put it, 98-99% white ‘lacks credibility’, I’m curious as to why. That said, I’ll quibble over your 98-99% white business. I suspect there were more than 1-2% minorities at the rally. I am not at all obsessed with blacks. I referred to blacks because they dominated the Sharpton rally, and in pictures of large ‘mostly white’ crowds, blacks are more likely to stand out than many other other minorities. One thing I’d like to make clear. I don’t care what the racial composition of the Sharpton rally was. I only care about what was being said. But since you seemed to feel there was something not quite right about a ‘mostly white’ rally, I just wondered what you thought about a ‘mostly black’ one. I still don’t know.
As far as your questions, I’ll do them in reverse order.
Why do minorities not appear to be supporting the Tea Party agenda? Very simply because the Tea Party agenda is mostly conservative and minorities are mostly liberal. Black approval of Obama is over 90% as I said before (and no, I am not obsessed with blacks, I simply don’t know what Obama’s approval is among other minorities). Why do minorities tend to be liberal? I cannot answer that, though I have some ideas. It has always surprised me. Of course, I used to be a liberal myself, and in those days it didn’t surprise me at all!
Hence, why was the GB rally “mostly white”? See above.
I’ll throw in one more item as additional info concerning both questions – conservatives and Tea Party folk are constantly accused of racism. Although almost all such charges are bogus, I presume that this might also impact minority involvement.
But I am confident of one thing – as time goes on, more and more minorities will become involved in the Tea Party. They will be persuaded by what the Tea Party stands for. And please do not ask what that is – it could take me hours and I just don’t have the time.
Your writing style is very interesting. You stated “you didn’t answer the most important questions at all”. Yet you reiterated only one question, which was: “What was said or done at the GB rally that you find objectionable”. Never mind, that I did answer that question but you then suggest that I did in fact answer that ‘question’ by stating “If you merely find any crowd that is, as you put it, 98-99% white ‘lacks credibility’, I’m curious as to why”. You’ve stated on the one hand that I’m not answering your “most important” questions (even though you only asked one) and on the other hand you’re asking about your misinterpretation of my answer. That doesn’t make any sense. If there are questions you feel that I have not answered, you should state what questions specifically.
On your suspicions that GB’s rally wasn’t 98%-99% white, do you have any evidence to support that view? Specifically, do you have photos or video that contradict the photos provided by Charlie Martin or the video provided by Fox “News”?
On your question about my view of the demographics of GB’s rally and the Tea Party in general, it’s simple: that’s not America. 1/3 of America is made up of minorities. There have been dozens of major Tea Party rallies and hundreds of smaller rallies in almost every state in the U.S, yet they are almost always all white. Millions of Tea Party participants and yet only 1%-2% of them are minorities. GB’s rally had hundreds of thousands of attendees and yet I’ve been able to see video that show only 12 or so black people attending. If these rallies were only 60%, 70% or even 80% white, I wouldn’t be so suspicious but their not. Their 98%-99% white.
On your assertion that minorities are mostly liberal you obviously don’t know many (if any) Latino or Asian people. I’m fortunate to live in a city that has many minorities in it. I can tell you from years of experience that my Latino and Asian friends are very conservative. They have a strong work ethic, a robust entrepreneurial spirit, and superior family values. Correct me is I’m wrong but aren’t those core conservative principals?
On your confidence that in time more minorities will join the Tea Party movement, I’m curious as to why they haven’t so far? It’s been over a year. Considering all the free advertisement they’ve received from Fox “News”, it seems unlikely that they are unaware of the Tea Party and what it’s agenda is.
Finally, why would it take you hours to explain what the Tea Party stands for? Other than libertarianism, what else does it stand for?
So am I to understand that the only objection you have to the GB rally is that it ‘lacks’ credibility’ because it doesn’t ‘reflect America’? Wow! I tend to base my political opinions based on what people actually say and then actually do. Of course, I guess you realize that if minorities are under represented when it comes to supporting Glen Beck rallies, then they must be over represented in opposing Glenn Beck rallies. This leads us to the horrifying realization that when we divide the population into two opposing groups either both groups ‘reflect America’ or neither group ‘reflects America’. So how can we choose based on ‘reflecting America’? Perhaps this is why I never base my support or opposition to something based on racial composition. But hey, to each his own.
But you are still dancing around my main question, and you are dancing harder and harder. Let me try again, one last time. This is the only real question I want an answer to: what was said at the Glenn Beck rally that you find objectionable?
Now I am glad you think that such virtues as strong work ethic, family values and the like are conservative. I hope and pray that lots of liberals have those same values as well.
The Tea Party has been getting lots of favorable coverage from Fox. I guess you must watch Fox all the time so that you may not be aware that most of the mainstream media outlets have been giving the Tea Party somewhat less than enthusiastic coverage – you know, reporting all the bogus racism and hate and potential violence at Tea Party events; the spitting and racial epithets in Washington and all. You’re also probably not aware that while Fox may dominate cable news, it has only a fraction of the viewership of network news. In spite of this, as I am sure you are aware, the Tea Party still manages to poll more favorably than either the Democrats or the Republicans. Maybe that is why I think that more and more Americans, including minorities, will support the basic Tea Party objectives.
I have been to multiple local Tea Party events here in Colorado and whereas I will readily concede that we don’t have minority representation to make us ‘look like America’, but it sure is a lot more than 1-2%. I think it will grow, you presumably do not. We’ll see.
If you want to argue that minorities are generally conservative rather than liberal, by all means go right ahead. I wish they were. Well, some probably are: Asians, for instance. I’ll base my view of the main minority groups (Blacks and Hispanics) on the way they vote. It has been years since Blacks voted less than 80% for Democrats and Hispanics less than 60% (I’m limiting myself to Presidential elections for simplicity). I personally know minorities who have a strong work ethic and strong family and religious values, and they vote Democratic. Now I ask (and I’m not being flippant) would you consider them to be more liberal or more conservative? And would you consider them to be people that might respond to the Tea Party message, which includes quite a bit about standing on your own two feet, taking responsibility for you own actions, and not being dependent on others?
I’m glad you examined the pictures of the rally so closely that you could conclude that there are only 1-2% minorities. Try as I might, I could not reach the same conclusion. There were just too many that I simply could not identify – they could have been White, they could have been Asian, they could have been Hispanic. I you asked me for an estimate, I would have said 1-2% Black, a similar number that I am pretty sure were Asian, some Hispanics (less than 1%) that I could identify as such, 70% White and the balance I could not tell, though I am sure that a majority of that balance were White. So I am pretty sure that it was at least 90% White, but beyond that I suppose I am just not smart enough to figure out, in spite of having a graduate degree in statistics and knowing a bit about estimation and the like. I guess my eyes aren’t keen enough. But you see, they key point is I do not care what the racial composition of the crowd was, and you obviously do. I do understand why now, at least – it doesn’t ‘reflect America’ – though I still don’t understand why that is important. I think that perhaps a more reliable way to determine whether something reflects America is to see if that something can get a majority of votes in a national election. The election of 2010 is not going to be a referendum on the GB rally, but I’m willing to bet that people that supported that rally are going to be a lot happier with the election results than those who objected to it.
I will give you the Tea Party in a nutshell, since you demand it. Obviously I’ll not get into details. Of course there is the above about people being self-reliant. We don’t want a government that rewards bad behavior and punishes good behavior. The Tea Party also wants us to return to the type of government our founders envisioned: limited government based on the Constitution. We believe that the Constitution limits the powers of the federal government and we wish to see the feds operate under those restrictions. We believe in American ‘exceptional-ism’. America is not like others (Europe, for example) and we should not try to become like them. Finally, most Tea Party people I have met are also social conservatives more than libertarian (I personally am a bit more libertarian), but consider that under current circumstances, social conservative issues should take a back seat to more pressing issues like getting our debt under control and putting some restraints on federal power.
Now I really do want to know what you find objectionable about what was said at the GB rally, but I simply can’t go on meeting like this. I have too many other things to do and will be happy to call a truce if you so desire.
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