“My belief in the ultimate superiority of freedom and human rights as a model for human society prevents me from being overly concerned about the fringe movements represented by religious fundamentalism – in the great arc of history, the movement toward rational mutual self-interest has been slow but steady.”

Tell that to the Netherlands, whose people once believed that their “tolerant,” secular, socialist, and hedonistic society would eliminate religious fundamentalism. The Dutch got a rude awakening when popular porn filmmaker/satirist Theo van Gogh was murdered by Muslim immigrant Mohammed Bouyeri.

http://www.globaljihad.net/view_page.asp?id=453

Bouyeri killed van Gogh because the latter made a film “Submission” that was critical of Islam.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article543212.ece

Furthermore, Bouyeri found the Netherlands’ tolerant, hedonistic culture promoted by van Gogh to be intolerable. Hence, he prays for the Netherland’s destruction.

Here’s another disturbing reality: the Muslim immigrants are converting the Netherlands instead of the other way around. Hence, as shown by the short film Fitna, the native Dutch could soon be living in a Muslim theocracy like Iran:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=31240495

If this occurs, expect the legalized murder of homosexuals in the Netherlands to be a regular event as it is in Iran.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/269565

Hence, it’s naive to believe that Islamic fundamentalists will leave the West alone if we are more “tolerant.”

“I am much more concerned about the fundamentalists in the USA than those overseas. The impact on my life is greater when the fundies are on the march here – and most of the fundies in the USA are not Islamic…

Peace.

DS”

You do remember that 9/11 was committed by “Islamic fundamentalists” (IFs) from overseas? And I don’t recall the these fundies saying “We will destroy the World Trade Center after all homosexuals leave the buildings.”

To an Islamic fundamentalists, the only good American is a DEAD American.

In related news, there four Islamic fundamentalists tried to launch terrorist attacks in New York City. They learned their evil trade in our prison system:

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=11835

Then there was the military recruiter in Arkansas was shot dead by (you guessed it) an Islamic fundamentalist:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1190351/Soldier-killed-Muslim-convert-opens-U-S-army-recruiting-centre.html

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/06/a_conspiracy_of_euphemism.php

So, don’t be shocked if the Islamic fundamentalists affect you or someone you know sooner rather than later.

To #60 I think you missed the point. Try reading
the whole comment, especially the last two
paragraphs. They tolerate it because they
see these practices , but not for them,
and liberalism in general as hastening the
end of the West and furthering their goals.

When it comes to abortion and gay marriage, the desires of the jihadis are the same as the desires of fundies here at home. Both parties want their religious tradition to be codified into law and applied across the board, rather than respecting the basic concepts of human rights. Both would prefer to subjugate women to the power of the state, with particular emphasis on reproductive rights and sexual taboos, and both would prefer to deny the right of marriage to gays based on religious objections. Both occasionally spawn homicidal and/or suicidal believers who take violent action to express their point of view.

I am much more concerned about the fundamentalists in the USA than those overseas. The impact on my life is greater when the fundies are on the march here – and most of the fundies in the USA are not Islamic…

Peace.

DS

PS – My belief in the ultimate superiority of freedom and human rights as a model for human society prevents me from being overly concerned about the fringe movements represented by religious fundamentalism – in the great arc of history, the movement toward rational mutual self-interest has been slow but steady.

See: http://www.slate.com/id/2100884/

But let’s pretend it is true. If you find such a correlation compelling, this one is downright terrifying: http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/001857.php

There’s no difference between correlation and causation, right?

There were no pregnancies in your school, really? No girls suddenly “left town” several months before graduation? That’s kind of surprising. My mom was one of those girls who quietly left her small town for the big city with her new husband and expanding waistline. This was 1966, and she was far from the only one. I’m proof of that!

The argument about kids learning about gay sex in school is overblown. They’re not given the “Joy of Gay Sex” and a bottle of lube, and told to go experiment. They’re simply taught that some boys don’t like girls, some girls don’t like boys, etc. Sex education is far less titillating, and lurid as many on the right seem to fear.

Also, regardless of what the kids are told, even if you show them a Chi Chi LaRue film, the ones who are straight are NOT going to magically become gay. It just doesn’t freakin’ work that way.

“Slippery Slope,” as I said before, is a logical fallacy. One of the big ones. People ought to be aware that using such arguments–especially when using the actual name of the fallacy–does not strengthen their argument.

- “Slippery Slope” arguments are by definition illogical. How did a logical fallacy become a conventional wisdom arguing tool?

- Is there a any kind of clamor in the US by any other group excluded from marriage to get legal recognition? Are there large groups of polygamists fighting for their right to get married? Brother-brother/sister-sister groups? Man-toaster groups? Does anybody REALLY see this as an honest threat?

- When attitudes and laws changed that allowed inter-faith, and interracial marriages, THAT didn’t lead to brother-sister marriage. And unlike polygamy you could argue that they are of the same “opposite marriage” construction. Since this didn’t happen, what makes you all think that same-sex marriage would automatically open the flood gates for anything?