Word to the Wise: Don’t Get Sick
There are those already advocating rationing as the only alternative. Peter Singer writes in the New York Times:
Rationing health care means getting value for the billions we are spending by setting limits on which treatments should be paid for from the public purse. If we ration we won’t be writing blank checks to pharmaceutical companies for their patented drugs, nor paying for whatever procedures doctors choose to recommend. When public funds subsidize health care or provide it directly, it is crazy not to try to get value for money. The debate over health care reform in the United States should start from the premise that some form of health care rationing is both inescapable and desirable. Then we can ask, What is the best way to do it?
It is “rational” analysis like this that will eventually give us a government-run health care system.
The Senate bill is not quite complete yet. That’s because the Finance Committee has yet to figure out how to pay for it. In addition to the “soak the rich” provision, senators, as befitting their higher office, are thinking of more creative ways to get the taxpayers to cough up cash. How about a “surcharge” on soft drinks? Or penalizing pharmaceutical companies for coming up with new drugs by socking them with another kind of tax?
Both the House and Senate versions come with orders from on high: get insurance or get fined. The individual mandate can penalize those who choose not to insure themselves up to 2.5% of their gross income or they must buy insurance, whichever is less expensive. (This will presumably be overseen by those gentle and fair souls at the IRS.)
It’s even worse for small businesses. Severely limited from participation in the public plan the first few years, small businesses with payroll over $250,000 must buy insurance for their employees anyway. If they don’t, they are fined 8% of their payroll. An NFIB study showed that about a million businesses with less than nine employees will be affected and half of them do not currently offer insurance to their employees.
This will not only drive thousands out of business but will put a huge crimp in the creation of small businesses. Since it is the small, independent businessmen who are first to hire coming out of a recession, the chances are pretty good that any recovery we experience will be slow, with unemployment remaining stubbornly high.
Then there’s the problem for around eight million taxpayers who fall into a gap between being eligible for subsidies (your income cannot exceed 400% of the official poverty line) and having to pay out of their own pocket for mandated insurance. Keith Hennessey explains:
But if you’re a single person with income of $44,000 or higher, then you’re above 400% of the poverty line. You would not be subsidized, but would face the punitive tax if you didn’t get health insurance. This bill leaves an important gap between the subsidies and the cost of health insurance. CBO says that for about eight million people, that gap is too big to close, and they would get stuck paying higher taxes and still without health insurance.
In the Wall Street Journal, Dr. Thomas Szasz writes:
Our national conversation about curbing the cost of health care is crippled by the vocabulary in which we conduct it. We must stop talking about “health care” as if it were some kind of collective public service, like fire protection, provided equally to everyone who needs it. No government can provide the same high quality body repair services to everyone. Not all doctors are equally good physicians, and not all sick persons are equally good patients.
If we persevere in our quixotic quest for a fetishized medical equality we will sacrifice personal freedom as its price. We will become the voluntary slaves of a “compassionate” government that will provide the same low quality health care to everyone.
Something to look forward to, what?
So what do we get after spending at least a trillion dollars over 10 years? The CBO says we would still have 17 million legal Americans not insured. We would also almost certainly have some form of rationing. And the chances are good that we would have a system performing much worse for people who are insured today.
Some deal, huh?
“But the Republicans are paying the price for not taking their jobs seriously for the decade they were in power by having no one take them seriously now. The GOP alternative was ignored by media and Democrats alike.”
There you have it. Stop whining and do what you can to improve what’s on those 1,018 pages.
I just love the fact that the people who are deciding the fate of health care for all Americans have a different set of rules for their own health care.
We NEED term limits. And don’t tell me that we can vote them out. There is too much hidden money behind them and way too much corruption.
I would like to revisit Peter Singer in a few years when he’s a 68 year old man with an enlarged prostate. He will, of course, by that time, be beyond providing any productive “value” to the state; he’ll likely find that there will be no “desirable ration” of health care to treat his useless old man self.
The state would, of course, provide him painkillers in lieu of treatment.
Upon further reflection of Mr. Singer’s remarks, and my above comment that “The state would, of course, provide him painkillers in lieu of treatment”, I’m thinking now maybe — perhaps even no painkillers, since there would be no more dollar doling to the pharmaceutical companies in his perfect world.
So take two aspirin, and stick a band-aid on that pesky old enlarged prostate.
This is amazing. With just a few months in office Obama and crew have managed to enrage half of our nation’s people closer to outright civil revolt than I’ve seen in my three score plus almost ten years on Earth.
The problem is that it is the wrong half of the population. The half responsible for putting this behemoth, dictatorial monster into office are still mostly unconcerned for the most part; content to be patient, skeptical that life is anything but a rosy bed of flowers with their hero Obama at the helm.
For that reason it is way, way too early to start sounding multiple alarms no matter how much gasoline Obama pours onto the fires as the way to put them out.
This time around appears to be a “landmark point” in our history that will either completely bust America into shreds or make it clear for every generation to come that the days, mindset and thinking of the Doctor Spock, Screw America Woodstock are finished.
While understanding that this article is about the Democrat’s massive healthcare fiasco it is also clear that Mr. Moran wanted to touch on more than one of the things that are insanely out of sync under Mr. Obama’s reign of power.
Hence, those who voted for Obama, those who support Obama are going to suffer right along side the rest of us. They don’t believe it yet. But, they will. They (including the entire black race) will come to hate the very name Obama with a passion.
I have a dream; a vision. What needs to happen from here is for the legions of Obama Democrats to pour it on until every last liberal Democrat Obama supporter’s career, family life, health and wallet has been crushed. At that time PJM articles will no longer be preaching to the 50% choir we have today.
A 57% tax on the rich and affluent.
Let me add this up…
The rich libs. that voted for Obama are going to pay $570,000 dollars per million earned.
My dreams of winning a $2,000,000 dollar lottery just went down in flames.
Hey!
Just had an idea-
the state educational lottery helps the schools so much why don’t we have one for National Health Care also?
But now for my rich friends
I appreciate your patriotism and look forward to standing in line at the numbers gate for free health care.
Calling number 2012- 2012…
ARE YOU STILL HERE?
Required to have health care coverage, where is the so called public “option” well it was an idea and it is an option of the government to now “require” you either pay a fee, penalty or tax if you do not get the required coverage.
I thought this country got started with what they thought was an excessive tax on tea and of course they did not have to buy the tea but it was the idea of taxation without representation that mad the colonists so mad that they revolted and formed the US.
Well now mini tea parties are forming across the nation and states are considering seceding from the US. I am sure they will gather more strength as time goes on because the country as a whole is fed up with the insane spending with awful results.
For those that voted for the current president as well as the congress is this really what you wanted? If so then enjoy yourself, but as for the rest of us we are going to speak out and fight this insanity and work to bring good representation back into the federal government as well as local and states.
Re #1 Vivo: Funny you should mention that!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124277551107536875.html
This was back in MAY! Did you ever think to question WHY you haven’t heard about any of the GOP alternatives? Did you ever think that maybe it’s because Obama isn’t letting this bill go through any hearings or discussion and is Rahm-rodding it through? Wonder why?
If you allow yourself to think outside of the democrat talking points for a millisecond Vivo you will finally see what WE have seen for months…the media and the Obama administration FEED you the information they WANT you to have.
Glad you can be the one to finally make our point for us. Thank you.
I get the picture. If or actually when food prices and shortages go up due to energy over taxation, Obama will close restuarants and force us to eat food at gibment school cafeterias. Single dining concept. Since restuarants are selling unhealthy food, they must be closed. With single source dining, he can pound down farm producer prices. A gubment diner under Obama would eliminate the unhealthy obesity driving horrible food of Pres Bush. Fascist control one industry at a time.
Chicago and d.C. have horrible graduation rates. lets make their superintendents education czars and spread their mehods.
This bill is obviously a job killer. Eventually the unemployment numbers will/must reach a tipping point that will impact on election day. Will Americans swallow the notion of a jobless recovery? Or will we finally turn our career political class out of power once and for all time? It’s time Americans reclaimed the republic according to our founding principles. Throw the bums out!
I posted this on another thread but it bears repeating here. If you truly believe that only the “rich” will pay for the health care in Obama’s new America, see if you can find yourself in one of these examples:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/photos/news_graph.jpg
I want to see the bill amended to include some responsibility on the patient side. OK, you tell me you want me to pay for your medical care. Fine. Because you dropped out, had babies out of wedlock, failed to save, didn’t, with your spouse, work 130 hours a week (starting in college), you say you can’t pay for your own care. But then you can at least stay under a proper weight and exercise. Not eating and walking a few miles a day costs absolutely nothing. So here’s the deal, I pay for your medical care so long as you stay at the proper weight and walk 3 miles a day. Oh, if I don’t pay may “share” (ie. do not pay my taxes) the government arrests me and throws me in jail. So if you fail to stay at the proper weight or fail to do your walking, you go to jail. (Please somebody submit such an amendment to the bill.)
Every American should note one remarkable feature of this plan. Elected officials, government employees, and certain others are exempting themselves from being in it, as noted by sodacrackers above. Now, if this is a good plan, why will Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd, Beiden, etc ensure they won’t be in it? Americans, this proves they think you are suckers, saps, marks, rubes, and dopes. Don’t prove they are right about us.
TO: All
RE: Heh
According to the BlogFather, the proposed bill outlaws all private medical insurance.
That means the government runs a monopoly. And we all know how the government runs things…..into the ground.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Look upon it as the DMV doing your medical care.]
P.S. I did the math on the last projected ‘pricing’ of government run health insurance and my rates will go UP by about one-third. a
Socalism,Communism,Marxism,Obamaism–tyranny by any other name…
vivo:
Ah Ha!
I smell some fear in your comment,
or was it something else?
How could we possible improve on Pres. Halo, Nancy Purity, and Harry (potter) Reid s magical health care bill?
Its like…. Magic!
tax-tax
spend-
tax-tax-tax
spend- spend-
tax-tax-tax-tax
spend-spend-spend.
eventually the spenders get rich.
Never waste a good health care crisis!
What the hell are they gonna pass next week?
I realized this when doing research on TIA’s. In England, patients had an average six-month wait to get in for follow-up. Risk of full blown stroke – that will permanently disable if not kill (expect more deaths from currently treatable maladies) – is significantly increased in the year following. I found a report from the British Health service suggesting patients need to see their Doctors within six *weeks*. My mother was into see her US doctor within TWO weeks.
The average US citizen will pay for this system by dying or being disabled, or having treatment postponed by/for something currently easily treatable. “care” will end up being rationed. if businesses have to raise costs to pay for obeyme’s new taxes, rest assured, YOUR costs will also go up. (while wages deflate)
The Democrats’ “Health Care Bill” much like Karl Marx’s “Communist Manifesto” looks much better on paper than it does in practice. One of the issues at hand like during the early periods of many a revolution is the distortion of words or the truth. We need to stop calling this a “Public” option when in fact it is a “Government” option. If you ask most people in England, France, Canada and other countries that have adopted this type of “Government” run medical practice, you will find there is more mal practice than not. In England they would rather women go to their graves than provide treatment for breast cancer. Is this what we want?? Do we want the government to tell us who lives and who does not because they rate medical care???
Washington needs to be held to the same rules as the people they make laws for. They need to reap what the sew.
Listening to Wrangle, small business will be taxed to the point of extinction. However, NOT ONE DEMOCRAT in congress has agreed to sign them or their families on to the health plan they are passing.
I am afraid our small business will pushed to the point that we will have to close our doors. Add up all the small businesses this will effect and many of you might not have a job.
Check with your congressman if THEY AND THEIR FAMILIES will be signing up for the health care plan they want us to accept. The act like dictators uncaring for the masses. Check them out and voice your opinion.
As I said…..not one Democrat has signed on to have the same health care that they are going to pass…..something wrong there folks…
CHECK OUT YOUR PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON!!! LET THEM KNOW THEY ARE TO HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD!!
11. AThinkingPerson:
lots of New Yorkers going to be moving South.
We finally won the frigging Civil War!
Rick Moran,
Have you ever like “been in business” and had to like “buy health insurance” for someone who has poor health?
I’ve got a clue for you. It’s crippling small business.
And Obama’s public plan meets the problem head on. And lowers health care costs.
Bring. It. On.
Chuck Pelto:
TO: All
RE: Heh
“According to the BlogFather, the proposed bill outlaws all private medical insurance.”
The blogfather is a lying piece of slime.
jharp/racist: Obama’s plan will cripple small businesses plain and simple. Why not use the term “whitey” again in your comment? It seems to drive home your paltry party line talking points so poetically?
Why isn’t Congress going to be subject to Obama’s glorious plan jharp/racist?
The useless old farts in Congress should be forced to the back of the health care line they are creating. Call their offices and tell them to vote no. If it’s not good enough for them, it’s not good enough for you and me.
75 percent of Americans want the opportunity to enroll in a public insurance plan.
The GOP members of congress oppose a public insurance plan.
It’s great to see that once again, predictably, the GOP stands on the side it always stands on – opposite of working people who want to protect the health of their families.
Small businesses opinion on Obama’s health care bill:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/15/eveningnews/main5162773.shtml
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124759535535340189.html
jharp/racist gets his/her facts from the Obama talking points. Typical.
Here’s the “jobs” Obama promised! Anyone up for going door to door to spout his campaign message and push his health care nightmare on the poor and uninformed? This is too funny. Too bad it’s true. Why must an administration STIll be campaigning if it’s policies are so good?
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/gov/1272054051.html
TO: jharp
RE: Actually….
…I think YOU’RE the “lying piece of slime”.
Why? Because I can prove what the BlogFather said is true, you slimy hairball, you….
Check out THIS!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Thanks for proving to the rest of US you’re such a liar…….
TO: sharky, et al.
RE And THIS….
….is how Lenin did it to the small business and land owners in Russia in the late 1920s.
Check out THIS article.
Pay particular attention to Lenin’s letter to his useful fools, think ACORN, on what to do with the small business owners who resisted.
Pay REAL close attention to what Stalin did with them in the early 1930s.
Then remember how Ayers, Obama’s polisci mentor, talked about the necessity to do the same in America when the Communists came into power. And please remember how Obama campaign staffers had Che posters on the walls of their offices.
Anyone else here ‘connecting the dots’?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Be Prepared..... -- Boy Scouts of America]
P.S. I suspect that the denial of medical care to we latter-day kulaks, for political reasons, could be viewed as a ‘cost savings’ effort…..
I wrote this before in another blog, I am seventy years old and I say to all young people.
You will never reach my age because your government simply will not allow it.
“do what you can to improve what’s on those 1,018 pages.”
hm…step one…kerosene…step two…match, anyone?
“since there would be no more dollar doling to the pharmaceutical companies in his perfect world.”
what pharmaceutical companies? no profit = why bother
I’ve had enough. The taking down of my posts did it.
You all have a good time wallowing in your ignorance. Remaining in the dark about issues key to most Americas is serving you so well. By all means, please keep it up.
Maybe you can get Joe The Plumber to educate you.
ANYTHING, ANYTHING!!! that is passed for health care should be the SAME PLAN THAT THE DEMS AND REPUBLICANS USE FOR THEIR FAMILIES.
But it won’t be unless we call our reps and find out why not one democrat has said they will sign up for the same plan they are passing on the public.
They need to be held to the same standards!!!!
I would like to proudly announce the new health care reform and here is the new plan for all of the country. Do not get sick. See that didn’t cost anything at all and the research costs almost nothing. If this new policy is followed just look at all the money saved on health care. Boy solving that was easy now wasn’t it! Tomorrow I will unveil my new energy plan that will slow our dependence on foreign oil, it is almost as good as the health care reform.
In Canada rationing is accomplished by the non or limited availability of certain services (MRIs, for example) and most effectively by long waiting lists for essential treatments. While waiting some die, thus making a patriotic contribution to the economy, others find their situation deteriorated to an untreatable state. I find it hard to believe that the organizations that are supposed to defend the elderly (like the AARP) seem to have bought into the Obamacare™ scam as they will be its first victims.
@ 29. Chuck Pelto:
This IBD editorial is grossly dishonest and deceptive.
The quote comes from subsection (A) of Section 102(a)(1)(A). Paragraph (a) of Section 102 defines “Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage.”
The editorial is quick to point out that subsection (1) is indeed titled “Limitation on New Enrollment,” but those limitations are only in reference to the previously defined Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage.
In other words — if an existing health insurance plan wants to be “grandfathered” in and not be required to meet the new standards, then they can’t enroll new people, change the coverage, increase the premiums beyond an established percentage. etc.
The IBD people have selectively focused on some of the language in the bill to create a false impression. In other words, they lied.
This is exactly what we have to look forward to as the debate of health care reform goes forward: Lies, distortions, trickery, anything the opposition can think of to protect the billions of dollars in profits now being sucked out of our wallets by the health insurance industry.
It’s truly sad and pathetic that disengenuous folks like Chuck Pelto care more about the welfare of the billion-dollar a year health industry than he cares about his fellow Americans and their families, and are actually willing to lie to defend this bloated and corrupt industry. Typical anti-American GOP shill.
Notice from the Ministry of health and Efficiency:
Applicant # 555-55-5555,
Your request for antibiotics to “cure an infected toe-nail that is starting to spread” is
DENIED
Criteria: 1) Subject is above age threshold 2) Subject is Social Security recipient 3) Subject productivity/efficiency ratio is below threshold
Final Decision and Notice
Don’t feed the trolls. Don’t play with them. I know it’s difficult and I sometimes have feed DaveW and jharp myself.
TO: Old Guy, et al.
RE: Heh
Guess I’ll have to watch Logan’s Run tonight.
Here’s the plot line…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Science fiction writers foresee the inevitable, and although problems and catastrophes may be inevitable, solutions are not. -- Isaac Asimov]
TO: Mike W
RE: Lie All You Want….
…the point is that you can’t get new private coverage. Your ‘stuck’ with what you have and the only alternative is going with the government monopoly.
Thanks for playing…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....these egregious liars working for Obama are a ban on society.....]
“I’ve had enough. The taking down of my posts did it”
You promise?
TO: All
RE: jharp
I hope he doesn’t let the screen door smack him in the fourth-point-of-contact on his way out.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I’ll bet he comes back…..albeit in another ‘guise’…..
[The stupid are always with you.....]
TO: All
RE: Additional Observation on jharp
Good idea, that. Considering he’s obviously smarter and has more common sense than Obama.
Furthermore, I’ll bet Joe the Plumber has a birth certificate he can show to the world that he WAS born in the United States.
The same cannot be said for Obama, as far as any reasonably prudent individual can discern.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Show US Obama's birth certificate!]
And of course, this amazing, useful, yet kind and compassionate plan will, of course, be the replacement for the current plan that Congress has for themselves and their families.
Right?
(I wish there could be a subthread on each thread where the trolls could feed and play. These days about 50% of the threads seems to be made up of their crap and responses to it. Most of it is just boiler plate leftism. What a waste. Of course, we can just scroll through it {which I do}, but it’s a little like always having to walk through broken glass on aisle 7.)
TO: Mike W
RE: Now….
….you TRULY have demonstrated yourself as a liar and a REALLY STUPID one at that. You have absolutely no idea about my stance on the vaunted American medical industry. If you weren’t so ignorant you wouldn’t have made such a stupid statement with my name in it.
My working definition of ‘stupid’ is being (1) ignorant and (2) proud of it. You’ve demonstrated both of them perfectly.
I know for a fact that there are serious problems with this system. Probably better than YOU. And there’s blame enough to go around for EVERYBODY: doctors, medical associations, hospitals, drug companies, patients, insurance companies and most especially the GOVERNMENT.
But handing the whole mess over for the government to ‘fix’ it is asking a alcoholic to manage a liquor store. It won’t work.
But you’re too stupid to recognize that.
Hope that helps…..but….well….you know…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.]
Re jharp exiting stage left: Why is it that when shown how a liberal’s viewpoint is flawed by providing evidence and links they always leave in a huff? I always enjoy hearing from the other side of the aisle but when mixed in with racist (“whitey”) wording, I take offense and cease to take that posters comments seriously.
Buh-bye jharp. Take your “whitey” comments elsewhere. I won’t miss them.
Hey, now! I want to live to be a healthy 109 sans diapers and a drool cup. *eats another handful of goji berries*
0bamacare can kiss my grits.
P.S. Did Baby Jesus perform a miracle on this thread? Are we REALLY down one troll??????? Or is a ‘new’ moniker going to show up in ‘its’ place? Tribbles! Pfft!
49. AThinkingPerson,
“Poor white trash” was ‘his/her’ other ‘favorite’ term.
;p
Despite all his ridiculous protests to the contrary, President Obama’s non-solution will in the medium and long term do nothing more than replace a marketplace of insurance with a government monopoly. The public option would become the a tool for leftist pols to control Americans and the subsidizing of it by printing money would very shortly spell the end of private health insurance. In reality, he has no way to pay for it because his confiscatory taxes on business owners and producers would cripple the economy and lower actual revenues in very short order. It would not take long for our system to suffer from the same rationing and waiting lists that other state run systems have. This is a disaster for everyone, not just the insured.
Until the consumers of health care actually have some skin in the game, health care costs will continue to rise. The solution should be that catastrophic care insurance should be a required minimum for every American. I realize this is not a very libertarian policy, but unless we decide that treatment of the sick is not mandatory, hospitals need to be protected from massive loses for treating the people who are currently uninsured.
Other care that does not involve catastrophic costs should then be the responsibility of the individual with assistance available for only the truly disabled and poor. This is where the market can work and does work. Some people (young and healthy) may choose to go without and be exposed to possible debt problems – but it will be their choice and they will not be able to crush the system if they default. Others would work through Health Savings Accounts and still others may pay for expensive traditional health insurance. But when the first $5K of costs each year are the consumers responsibility, he/she will think about whether the new expensive drug is necessary when a generic will work and ask questions. They will question if the MRI is necessary. They will work a little harder to quit smoking and may try to lose weight. When comsumers have choices AND the responsibility to pay for it, costs will start to be controlled.
Until then, the current model is bad but better than the leftist’s disaster of government health care.
TO: AThinkingPerson, et al.
RE: [OT] jharp and His Ilk
Actually, I believe this character left because he was not allowed to vent his spleen in the vitriolic manner as he wished by the PJM moderators.
So he left in a ‘huff’. Most likely to spew it even moreso all over HuffPo…..a place I’m not even allowed to post on.
What’s REALLY ‘funny’ is that jharp is too ‘stupid’ to recognize the difference in approach practiced between PJM and HuffPo. The former allows people of all stripes to post, but limits them to semi-civil discourse. The latter won’t allow anyone who rationally disagrees with them to post at all. Even without vitriolic verbiage in their comments.
Stupid people. And vicious too. I’m confident that given the opportunity and authority, they’ll commit murder to support their agenda. It happens all the time, throughout the march of history. The most recent versions being the rise of the Communists in given countries, e.g., Cambodia and The Killing Fields.
And now we see the rise of the Communists in America…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I have to wonder why the most recent issue of American Mensa’s Bulletin is themed On the Defensive…..
….such ‘governments’ come for the intelligent ones who oppose them first.
Re Mike W: You’re touting old data. The more Americans hear about the details of ObamaCare the more the “in favor of” crowd dwindles. It’s now down to 51% in favor of and not the 75% you stated (which is from June – funny how quickly that number is dropping wouldn’t you agree?).
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/01/health.care.poll/
Chuck and Delia: Couldn’t agree with you both more.
The HuffPo is indeed a scary place. Of course, the comments there are usually reduced to 2 words (ie “we won”) or mere grunting. I’d consider it a badge of honor to be banned there. You must have hit too close to home and threatened the group thought going on.
Guess that’s why our current democratic Congress can pass bill after bill without reading them. Short attention span.
I keep hoping that Obama will take down his campaign website so his followers will start having to actually search out some facts instead of being spoonfed propaganda straight from The One.
“Predictably, when so many cooks are in the kitchen”
-does not equal-
“Predictably, when so many crooks are in the kitchen”
Fixed that for you.
Regards, Tom Perkins
ml, msl, & pfpp
@Mike
“In other words — if an existing health insurance plan wants to be “grandfathered” in and not be required to meet the new standards, then they can’t enroll new people, change the coverage, increase the premiums beyond an established percentage. etc.’”
So you’re admitting it outlaws private healthcare, you just think it doesn’t count because it isn’t instantaneous.
Regards, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
E-mail your Senators and ask them if they are going to remove themselves from the Congress’ medical coverage plan and become part of the plan they are preparing for everyone else…and if not, why not.
I did it this morning.
We need to become anklebiters again, like we did two summers ago on the illegal immigration overhaul.
Chuck P. & AThinkingPerson:
HuffPo gives me the willies. I once signed up for a username/password there last year and never braved using it. What’s that saying? Don’t cast your pearls before swine? It’s bad enough when the trolls come HERE but to actually try and have a discussion with a whole host of trolls? Forgettabowtit!
Has anyone noticed that ‘small business’ has become the new ‘bogeyman’? 0bamacare will be a nightmare for small business and now congress just refused to pass a bill to help some of the car dealerships [small business] ‘survive’ because it would show ‘preferential treatment’ even though ‘unions’ were shown *cough-cough* ‘preferential treatment’.
You gotta love how 0bama’s idea of ‘shovel ready’ jobs he is going to ‘create’ are ‘gub’ jobs rather than private industry and small business jobs. Since a big chunk of our economy depends on private industry and small business and 0bama’s plans are geared towards the ruination of small business, and ‘gub’ jobs are paid by tax payers. I’m reallllllllly curious where the money to pay for all of these magikal ‘gub’ jobs is going to come from?
China? Oh puhlease!
Bleh. Self-Edit: That should have been a comma after ‘tax payers’ rather than a period.
Obamacare will add to American productivity. No one will be able to afford getting sick anymore . . . or they’ll die.
61. Terry,
LOL! Dead people can’t pay taxes though! The idea of ‘retirement’ is OVER though.
You work until you die.
The end.
:\
There really is a great solution to all of this taxation/spending/bullshitting us all over the place:
Start a “cash only” business. If you can’t do that, then change your W-4 form for the highest number of dependants you can, thereby having fewer tax dollars extracted from your paycheck. Take the extra money you get to keep (it isn’t really “extra” money: it’s YOUR money) and hide it away. Come time for your 2009 taxes, eff ‘em – don’t file, don’t pay. It worked for 3/4 of Obama’s cabinet members! Why not for us?
My worry and concern about this fascist/socialist/statist administration is quickly turning to outright rage. We not only have criminals running our government, we have morons of the lowest order. How can any sane person look at this muddled befuddled purely horseshit bill and call it GOOD????
Sorry about the expletives. Sometimes the word “crap” just isn’t strong enough.
Hey u!! I’m sure there are quite a few of us that would vote for JOE THE PLUMBER!!! he’s a heck of a lot smarter and knows what’s going on in the world of ..
“the people that actually pay the taxes”, or “people that work for a living” a lot better than the people in Washington, or the freeloaders
Good idea!!! Call your reps and see if they have signed on to have the same health care that they are going to give us!!!
JHC!!! SOROS MUST PAY SOME OF YOU BIG MONEY TO CHATTER ALLLLLLL DAY LONG ON ALLLLLL THE DIFFERENT POSTS, SAME ANTI AMERICAN CHANT
33. antaine:
“do what you can to improve what’s on those 1,018 pages.”
hm…step one…kerosene…step two…match, anyone?
~~~~
too slow, and not thorough enough. try liguid oxygen and toss a lit cigarette. one . . two . . three . . nothing left.
I find it hard to believe that the organizations that are supposed to defend the elderly (like the AARP) seem to have bought into the Obamacare™ scam as they will be its first victims.
~~~~
The AARP cares as much about seniors as the UAW cares about labor. They’re a tool to power and nothing more.
50. Delia:
P.S. Did Baby Jesus perform a miracle on this thread? Are we REALLY down one troll??????? Or is a ‘new’ moniker going to show up in ‘its’ place? Tribbles! Pfft!
~~~~
I thought “new” moniker already had shown up. it’s so sad he feels such low esteem he has to constantly change his name. If he thinks it will fool anyone, more the fool him.
48. Chuck Pelto:
My working definition of ’stupid’ is being (1) ignorant and (2) proud of it.
~~~~
May I add: (3) isn’t illegal, but should be.
63. Moogie:
Moogster, are you suggesting small businesses going GALT for realz? ‘They’ would send in the ACORN thugs to shake ya down!
This crap sammich is scary. Each day it’s like another knife in the heart of America and all for which she stands er ‘stood’.
*wee tear*
P.S. I’m glad I’m not the only woman here who has a potty mouth. he-he-he
57. Tom Perkins: ““In other words — if an existing health insurance plan wants to be “grandfathered” in and not be required to meet the new standards, then they can’t enroll new people, change the coverage, increase the premiums beyond an established percentage. etc.’”
So you’re admitting it outlaws private healthcare, you just think it doesn’t count because it isn’t instantaneous.
Wrong. it does not outlaw private healthcare. Nowhere does it say in this bill that private insurance is outlawed. This is just pathetic fearmongering.
Investor’s Business Daily did not continue to read the bill to page 19. “Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan. ” It does not outlaw individual private coverage – you can still buy the plan on the Exchange where they will compete with the public option, not be replaced by it. The advantage of the Exchange, is that the coverage no longer has one of the problems of individual coverage – skyrocketing premiums should you become ill.
67. ked5,
‘They’ are ‘LEGION’.
I just received my hospital bill. Four days, heart failure. $0.39 shy of $147,250. Medi-care
paid $575.50. I only owe $146,662.11. Obama care is here.
Delia: I do try to reserve the potty mouth for exceptional circumstances.
Rats. I missed it.
Mike W: So is it fearmongering to point out that Obama’s own Congressional Budget Office has reported that health cost will INCREASE not decrease under Obama’s plan?
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5&docID=news-000003168293
Mike W: Is it fearmongering to link to a poll showing 78% of Americans now believe (rightly so) that the middle class will be taxed to pay for ObamaCare?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/healthcare/july_2009/78_say_health_care_reform_likely_to_mean_higher_taxes_for_the_middle_class
TO: Delia, et al.
RE: [OT] Taking the Fight….
….to the ‘enemy’.
Perhaps if we sent in raiding parties? You know….
….something like a ‘pantie raid’. A coordinated group selects a topic, goes in, pulls their panties over their heads on the topic and leaves.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Why is "bra" singular and "panties" plural?]
we would like to see some changes in insurance/health care coverage. We pay through the nose for coverage. I had breast cancer , and now we are stuck with the insurance we had at the time..no one else will take us until the 5 year wait is up…it’s expensive and takes a HUGE bite out of income.
That said, TYG we had insurance, the hospital, dr bills etc were astronomical!!! We also had AFLAC policy that kicked in, helped a lot!!! Without insurance we would be out on the streets in a tent somewhere..if we could have afforded a tent…
I have no ideas, but I do not think socializing medicine will help in any way. There will be fewer good doctors. why go into a profession where you are over regulated, not paid adequately for your services. this goes for researchers also.
I agree that we need to insist Washington should be covered by what ever insurance plans they lay on the American public.
Mike W: Is it fearmongering to point out the 5.4% surtax that ObamaCare will put on small businesses (re: job creators)?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/07/15/eye-popping-cost-obamacare/
TO: Mike W
RE: Still….
…the pathetic, stupid liar. But a clever one. Your right in that it doesn’t say “private insurance is outlawed”.
But, it does say that you can’t change to anything other than the government monopoly. Which, in essence makes private insurance outlawed, in due time.
So….you’re outed, liar.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Telling the truth is hardly ‘fear mongering’. It’s just the….you know….the ‘truth’.
Or are you afraid of the truth?
Mike W: Is it fearmongering to point out how Obama is backpeddling on promises made about his health care plan and becoming more evasive?
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/107505
Moogster, my only saving grace is the heavy usage of asterisks.
~
So, let me get this straight:
As long as we are healthy and don’t get ‘old’ then 0bamacare will ‘work’????
Just wait until all of our food becomes genetically ‘engineered’ to feed the ‘poor unwashed masses’ of unemployed. 0bama will go lax on the FDA about what ‘passes’ for ‘food’.
Soylent greeeeeeeeeeen is peopleeeeeeeeeeee!
Sorry, couldn’t resist that ‘un.
Hey, Chuck already mentioned ‘Logan’s Run’ so that’s all I had left! ;p
#72 mudpie: Send your statement to the White House. Seriously. With a note attached: Dear Mr. President: Payment of these services is due by you within 30 days of receipt. Make check payable to (The Hospital). Thank you, Mr. Medicare-is-a-joke Mudpie.
This is where the whole tangled mess of health care falls apart: the disparity between cost, coverage, and care. They need to be separated and addressed as separate issues. And I’m not convinced that these things need to be addressed by our government. Where is the consumer in all of this?
The care in this country is still considered to be one of the best, however, the cost for that care is exorbitant. Why? Non-profits shouldn’t have to pay through the nose for liability and malpractice insurance. Frivolous claims eat away at their budgets and do nothing to improve the care. They add the burden of the cost onto the next patient.
Where in the Constitution does it even imply that the government is responsible for insuring people? Or that it even has the legal right to require people to get insurance? The government, per se, has fewer rights than the citizen.
If the citizen is going to demand that the government take care of them, then they’d better be willing to fork up the moolah required, because we all know the government is NOT a money making business. It is a money sucking black hole, requiring ever more and more in order to feed its constantly growing distended belly.
We the people are the money makers. We are the funders, the givers, the employers and the caretakers. The government is ill-equipped to be stewards of our money. Government entities are mismanaged, inefficient, and mangled by red tape. The government creates incomprehensible bills which usher in complex and unmanageable bureaucracies whose leaders are invested in one thing only: their own power.
Do not, for one minute, be duped into believing that this so-called “health care reform” is being implemented for “our own good.” It is a power-making, money-making tool for those who couldn’t care less whether we have rationed care, quality care, or any kind of care at all.
TO: Rick Moran
RE: Hey!
Is Obama STILL your president?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I’ll be asking you that same question now and then as we steadily slide into disaster…..
Chuckie – you are out of your depth – go back to dithering about the birth certificate
#77 Annie: “pre-existing conditions” are usually handled on a state by state basis. Move to Washington state, where a person cannot be denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition.
Our state also implemented a law stating that a person cannot be “cut off” of insurance if the insurer has paid out the maximum amount of “lifetime benefits” allowed.
For example, our son was born with multiple birth defects. After two years, the million dollar “cap” (maximum amount allowed) had been met and our insurance company cut him off. Luckily, we were able to get coverage through a special state plan for “medically fragile children.” They picked up the tab until the new law requiring re-instatement kicked in.
We tend to forget that we all live in states, which are autonomous bodies and are capable of functioning perfectly well outside of the NY/DC corridor. This is yet another reason that nationalizing anything is usually a bad idea as it pre-empts state authority.
Here’s something that is sure to make your eyes bleed:
House Democrats Health Care Plan Organizational Chart
(cross posted here
TO: The Shallow
RE: Yeah….
…Right!
I suspect you’re projecting again. Offering ad hom and nothing else.
Thanks for playing….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Call on me again after YOU have heart surgery…..
There is a caption on the right side of the main screen, check it out..
The caption reads:
WELL, GOOD: Blue Dogs Threaten To Bring Down Pelosi’s Healthcare Bill. Call ‘em and give ‘em some encouragement, if you’re so inclined.
TO: Mike W, et al.
RE: Another Thing You Can Lie About
The CBO says this egregious POS will worsen the economic situation.
Check out THIS!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....and Mike W is going to look like a stupid fool....]
Awwwwww nuts! My reply to Chuck P. got moderated out?
I’m still trying to figure out wtf ‘key-words’ seem to spark controversy, no matter how innocent the intent??????
So, how many doctors are going to want to ‘hang around’ and continue their practice under forced 0bamacare?
Any doctors in da house?
It might be a good time to make reallllllllly bestest friends with a competent doctor.
Just sayin’…
OMG : “The American Medical Association just sent a letter to House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel, endorsing the health reform proposal put forward by three House committees.” What is the world coming to when doctors desert the wingnuts
The Obama health plan is the answer to the ailing social security program that is going to run out of funds. Let people die while waiting for diagnosis and or health care and reap the social security payments they have made over a lifetime. Go Blue dogs and conservative non Repubs and defeat this bill in it’s form.
Only one thing has to be done…..pass a law that the loser of a malpractice suit pays the court and lawyer fees and this will lower the malpractice premiums. The cost of doctors services should be CUT!!! I had a toenail removed in the office and it costs $650.00!!!!! That was shared between me and the insurance company that gets $350 a month from my employer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I havent had to go to the doctor for 10 years!!!And, I’m a smoker!!!!!!!!!!! My husband died of stomach cancer that the doctor never diagnosed, he had a blood clot in his leg…they put him on coumadin and he bled to death! Didnt know about the large tumor in his stomach until an autopsy….I could not get a lawyer to take the case cause they figured they would not win!!!! That doctor made alot of money and I never even received a condolence call!!! He was probably having his BMW serviced! We dont need any special health plan, lower doctor and admin pay, lower malpractice premiums therefore lower health premiums!
Ironic. Tax tobacco out the a$$, then ban its use in public. Find out that there is not enough tax revenue anymore, so they increase the tax (SCHIP) on tobacco again. Lets not forget FDA control on tobacco now too. Not only bans on smoking, but also what products can be sold. That means less tax revenue again. NON-SMOKERS really didn’t care and let smokers take all the tax heat and bans.
In respect to that, our fine Obama is pushing for junk-food / soft drink taxes. Now everyone is up in arms about having to pay a few extra cents on a can of pop. POOR YOU!! I pay an extra few dollars on a pack of cigarettes. Its about time the majority has to pay for something that the MAJORITY gets the benefit of using.
Those who voted “change” will have just that…only change left in their pockets.
72. Mudpie
Ouch.
Oh well, don’t worry about it. Just write them a check like the gubmint does.
TO: The Shallow
RE: Heh
Got a URL substantiating that report? Cause I’m not seeing it reported anywhere.
Or are you a liar?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....one way or another.....]
P.S. Just a short time ago, I saw reports that the AMA opposed Obama’s plan.
Here’s the LINK!
TO: Delia
RE: Heh
I recommend learning how to perform minor surgery in your own home and studying homeopathy.
I think the doctors are all going to go elsewhere….as in to specialized practice as a personal physician for some rich folk….save for the incompetents. They’ll stay on the government dole….and aid in the ‘cost reduction’ by killing their patients.
After all….
….you can’t sue the federal government. There goes all those malpractice suits….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A doctor's reputation is made by the number of eminent men who die under his care. -- George Bernard Shaw]
P.S. Under THIS plan, it’ll be more like their ‘body counts’…..
There are several plans that would do most of what people want.
They will never see the light of day.
They are not Democrat plans and they do not place government in the center and in control. They do not require 1.5 trillion dollars. They do not suck the economy dry and paralyze businesses big and small of capital and the ability to create new jobs. They do not require the printing of trillions of unsupported dollars that will engender runaway inflation.
They will not condemn retired people to no choice but hospice care when they have conditions that have some chance of recovery because they are not cost effective and the patients are not valued anymore. (They do not produce enough taxes, if any.)
They will not have a government employee deciding when the test and operations will be available, months or years later. (The patient my die and the cost saved)
They will not have a government employee deciding what Doctors and hospitals will make causing the best and brightest to leave the profession.
They will not have a government employee deciding what research pharmaceutical companies will do and what biomedical research will develop.
The alternatives will never see the light of day.
Chuck P., $OMEBODY is going to make a KILLING with the implentation of 0bamacare!
“Paging Dr. Kevorkian!”
Speaking of ‘health’:
Those folks who use the computer a lot, need to take frequent breaks and stretch and move OFTEN. If you work in a cubicle and ‘sit’ a lot, try standing up as often as you can.
Deep Vein Thrombosis is more common than you think and NO LAUGHING MATTER:
http://www.clotcare.com/clotcare/dvt.aspx
implentation = Implementation
Uh huh. I can ‘shpell’.
Another health tip from Delia:
Eat your tumeric twice a week [sprinkle it on your spuds or fish or pasta]! Studies have shown that eating tumeric reduces the chances of dementia and Alzheimer’s disease exponentially. -But, don’t buy that gross old, dusty, flavorless tumeric sitting on the shelves. Buy some organic fresh grounds stuff. It’s like night and DAY. The taste and aroma is so yummy when you get the ‘good’ stuff. It’s like comparing old ground pepper to fresh ground peppercorns. Yaknow?
Okay, Okay. I’ll shaddup now.
maybe.
he-he
Poor old Chuckie – wrong again
From NBC’s Mark Murray
In what appears to be a pretty significant development in the fight over health care, the American Medical Association has written House Ways and Means Committee Chairman
Charlie Rangel
a letter supporting the $1 trillion-plus Democratic House health-care bill.
“On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the American Medical Association, I am writing to express our appreciation and support for H.R. 3200, the ‘America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009,’” says Dr. Michael Maves, the AMA’s executive vice president and CEO.
“This legislation includes a broad range of provisions that are key to effective, comprehensive health system reform. We urge members of the House Education and Labor, Energy and Commerce, and Ways and Means Committees to favorably report H.R. 3200 for consideration by the full House.”
Maves concludes, “The AMA looks forward to further constructive dialogue during the committee mark-up process. We pledge to work with the House committees and leadership to build support for passage of health reform legislation to expand access to high quality, affordable health care for all Americans.”
Below is the full letter….
July 16, 2009
The Honorable Charles B. Rangel
Chairman, Committee on Ways and Means
U.S. House of Representatives
1102 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Dear Chairman Rangel:
On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the American Medical Association, I am writing to express our appreciation and support for H.R. 3200, the “America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009.” This legislation includes a broad range of provisions that are key to effective, comprehensive health system reform. We urge members of the House Education and Labor, Energy and Commerce, and Ways and Means Committees to favorably report H.R. 3200 for consideration by the full House.
In particular, we are pleased that the bill:
• Promises to extend coverage to all Americans through health insurance market reforms;
• Provides consumers with a choice of plans through a health insurance exchange;
• Includes essential health insurance reforms such as eliminating coverage denials based on pre-existing conditions;
• Recognizes that fundamental Medicare reforms, including repeal of the sustainable growth rate formula, are essential to the success of broader health system reforms;
• Encourages chronic disease management and care coordination through additional funding for primary care services, without imposing offsetting payment reductions on specialty care;
• Addresses growing physician workforce concerns;
• Strengthens the Medicaid program;
• Requires individuals to have health insurance, and provides premium assistance to those who cannot afford it;
• Includes prevention and wellness initiatives designed to keep Americans healthy;
• Makes needed improvements to the Physician Quality Reporting Initiative that will enable greater participation by physicians; and
• Initiates significant payment and delivery reforms by encouraging participation in new models such as accountable care organizations and the patient-centered medical home.
The AMA looks forward to further constructive dialogue during the committee mark-up process. We pledge to work with the House committees and leadership to build support for passage of health reform legislation to expand access to high quality, affordable health care for all Americans.
This year, the AMA wants the debate in Washington to conclude with real, long overdue results that will improve the health of America’s patients.
Sincerely,
Michael D. Maves, MD, MBA
Don’t you just hate it when the people you think are on your wingnut side desert you. It also looks like Sentator Graham might be voting for Sotomayor
It’s Senators like Dennis Kucinich and Bernnie Sanders who know what is going on and these two fine gentlemen work for the people.
105. The Shadow,
I guess you missed the memo when all of us ‘wingnuts’ bitched about the ‘RINOS’ who are NO conservatives by a long-shot.
Dear Shadow: Follow the money.
Hey now lets not all pick on poor rick moron… he’s just angry that obama’s new plan isn’t going to cover the dislocated jaw and strained neck muscles he got from all that head bobbing he did during his election coverage.
TO: The Shallow
RE: Thanks…
….for the verbatim report. But I didn’t ask you for that. I asked for a url that would substantiate your report.
You must have poor reading skills. Is English your tertiary language?
I could write up an item about Obama resigning and put it here. Just like YOU did. But without citing a source….
….well….you know….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Try again.....]
Dear Shadow: Here ya go, ya nut job:
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/michael-maves.asp?cycle=08
Dear Shadow: Oh, guess where Michael Maves practices? Can you say Chicago?
Wingnut = whoever disagrees with The Shadow
Wingnut = badge of honor.
Here’s the story Chuck:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25037.html
I became disillusioned with the AMA eons ago. It’s just another elistist political union.
113. Michael,
He-he! Betchya dollars to donuts that if I wore a ‘Proud Right Wingnut’ t-shirt I wouldn’t get HALF [or I'd even go so far as to fancy a 1/4] the ‘dirty side-eye looks’ as if I wore a ‘Proud 0bama Supporter’ t-shirt.
Say, here’s an interesting little tidbit: Only about 15% (as of 2005) of all practicing physicians in the United States belongs to the AMA. Gee, that sure doesn’t sound like much of a consensus to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Medical_Association#Membership
Oh gee, surprise, surprise! Right above that little “membership” link is a nifty little criticism of the AMA by my hero, Milton Friedman. Whatta guy.
Oh, look at their “political positions.” Good Lord – this organization flips and flops more than a landed tuna. Yup, these are the guys I want on MY side in a fight – er … as long as I’m winning, that is.
A letter of endorsement by this group is as impressive to me as Castro giving Chavez a thumbs up.
116. Moogie:
“A letter of endorsement by this group is as impressive to me as Castro giving Chavez a thumbs up.”
Good work, Detective Moogster! I think the teamwork of the PJM commenters is pretty darned tootin’ awesome iffin’ I do say so muh-self!
P.S. I glimpsed your picture on your blog a few days ago. Ohhhhhhhhh. Moogster is a HOTTAYYYYYYYYYY! LOL! Hope I didn’t embarrass ya but it’s true.
You need exactly one piece of information about any health care “reform” legislation: does it, or does it not, apply to members of Congress and employees of the federal government exactly, and without exception, as it applies to those of us who are not in the Nomenklatura? Any answer but “yes” is completely unacceptable. Any member of Congress who votes for a better deal for the Nomenklura should be voted out at the first opportunity, at the very least.
P.S.
Don’t be surprised if the ‘next’ part of the ‘Cloward-Piven’ strategy is to arm enough criminal-thug [read: ACORN] types with guns and randomly shoot enough innocent people that a ‘crisis’ arises that requires a ‘gun ban’.
You can call me crazy now.
You won’t call me crazy ‘then’.
AARP is buying into this health care mess so they can sell supplemental insurance to everyone, that is everyone except the House & Senate, their staffers, and retired employees. You will definitely need it once this plan becomes law. Remember that AARP also lobbied against Social Security reform but had no problem with its own investments. AARP is a two faced money grabbing corporation that does not give one hoot about the senior citizens of this country.
Does President Obama want to be Thanos? Obama’s nihilism is showing.
Thanos is a character who is in love with the personification of Death; when he saw Death, he saw it as a woman in dark robes–sometimes with skin other times just as a skeleton. Death never really took to Thanos though, although he sometimes did her bidding.
Thanks Delia. My daughter calls my expression in the picture my “Alright, who left the kitchen in a mess?”
See… I’m just an ordinary person caught up in extraordinary times. Like everyone else in here. I don’t have the resources, time, or money to lobby or campaign. All I have to fight these tyrants is my keyboard. Oh, and a generous supply of common sense and discernment.
DocDavid: I am sorry, but we all know what’s good for the goose is simply not acceptable for the gander. Our politicians today are firmly imbedded in the “Do as I say and not as I do” culture. It’s a culture of paradoxes and ironies, this culture of Modern Liberalism.
TinTinker: your description of AARP is pretty much what the AMA is: they’ll go this way or that way, depending on the direction of the tides – but only if there’s a profit built in somewhere for them.
TO: Moogie
RE: Thanks!
Much better than our friend The Shallow.
RE: The AMA
Me too. What can you say about a monopolitistic organization that throttles advances in medicine that are competitive with their own activities? E.g., chiropractie and acupuncture.
Nothing good….
RE: What Does It All Mean?
Looks to me like the AMA is getting someone schitzie. One month they say one think. The next the other.
I wonder what tomorrow….or next month….may bring.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If laughter is the best medicine, shouldn't we be regulating it?]
TO: Moogie, et al.
RE: OooooOOH?
Sounds like the membership in NOW. Only less with them.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Where’s that stat from? I can use it here and there in other discussions.
8. AThinkingPerson:
“Glad you can be the one to finally make our point for us. Thank you.”
Thanks for the WSJ link, very informative. It’s quite a messy situation, legislator not agreeing on what’s best for the country. Shouldn’t legislators take a test to see if they are qualified to be legislators?
17. fear Obama:
“Ah Ha!
I smell some fear in your comment,
or was it something else?”
Don’t be so biased. If you slowly read and digest what I write you may find it surprisingly logical and pragmatic.
72. mudpie:
“I just received my hospital bill. Four days, heart failure. $0.39 shy of $147,250. Medi-care
paid $575.50. I only owe $146,662.11. Obama care is here.”
Something doesn’t sound right. Why wouldn’t they pay? You left out important details.
TO: Delia, et al.
RE: What Was I Saying?
Oh Yeah…..I said THIS!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[We shall solve no crisis before its time. And in some cases, we'll have to manufacture it, first.....]
Poor chuckie – reading is not his problem however he does a a serious problem with logic. Lets go back to the birth certificate- You begin to see why the wingnuts attract such a small crowd. He doesn’t believe the letter from the head of the AMA. Does anyone see the similarities to the birth certificate dithering. If laughter is the best medicine the wingnuts are keeping me very healthy and since I am soon to turn 70, I need all the laughs I can get these days
Chuck: got that stat from everyone’s favorite “go to place” for “accurate” information: wikipedia. See my link above.
Alan Keyes made a rather dire prediction some time ago: that the left would manufacture some kind of “crisis” that would create such chaos in our country that the 2012 elections would have to be called off and that Obama would have to declare some kind of marshall law (read: his browncoats).
Perhaps Mr. Keyes is not so far off. The increasing power and money being given to ACORN, along with the strategies of Cloward-Piven being enacted right now, I have to wonder if this scenario is really all that far-fetched.
What if health care reform doesn’t make it through – regardless of how many incarnations it undergoes in the house and senate? And what if cap and tax dies a miserable death? What kind of temper tantrum might we see from the boy king if he doesn’t get his way?
Chuck P., another of my posts to YOU went into the moderation dumpster. *sigh*
127. The Shadow,
If you are actually going to turn 70, then you are truly the most stupid elder I have ever encountered in my lifetime. WOW. Of course, it makes sense, since you probably won’t be around to see the downfall of America over your gullability and abject admiration of a Marxist/Racist pile of crap.
Happy day, gramps. Hope ya don’t get charged a carbon tax for that last gasp of breath ya make on your final candle on the birthday cake/casket.
127. The Shadow:
The whole ‘Birth Cert’ thing is getting old. Yes, 0bama spent MILLION dolla moula to keep his ‘birth cert” private. Why? Probably because he was a ‘bastard’?
What ‘easily’ DISQUALIFIED 0bama was his ADMITTED dual citizenship! factcheck.org is a website ‘henchman’ for the dohBama admin trying to ‘control’ the influx of curiosity seekers as to his actual eligibility. They paint dohboy as an actual ‘American’. HA! You don’t spend over a million bux to hide who you really ARE. That doesn’t make SENSE. -And, anyone with two brain-cells to rub together ain’t buyin’ the candy man’s b.s. either/or.
We are in BIG, BIG touble, America. Even folks from other countries are horrified.
I dunno about you, but, I’m not going down without a fight.
P.S.:
Here is the link [again] to ‘Natural born citizen’:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/
It’s going to get UGLY, folks. Choose your side.
TO: Delia
RE: 70???!?!
Mine too.
Must be Alzheimers dementia setting in. Either that or he’s taken the concept of ‘second childhood’ to a more literal level than most of us consider.
His presentation form reminds me of an early middle-school debater.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I think he’s lying about his age. Oh….Wait….he and his ilk always were liars…..
P.P.S. If he IS that old….
….with Obamacare he’ll be ‘out of this world’ in a year or two, as being ‘uneconomically repairable’.
You SEE?
As I’ve always said….
There are advantages and disadvantages to every possible situation.
“If we persevere in our quixotic quest for a fetishized medical equality we will sacrifice personal freedom as its price. We will become the voluntary slaves of a “compassionate” government that will provide the same low quality health care to everyone.”
Well, of course you’re right; but when you consider what even a middle income earner pays in federal, state, and local taxes (and don’t forget fuel taxes and property taxes!); we’re already “slaves” to government. Isn’t there an ammendment to the constitution concerning ivloluntary servidtude? Last time I checked, it was #13
117. Delia
Checked out the Moogsters blog, and you’re correct . . . beauty and brains! And in a blue state, no less . . . .
OMG Delia – You are in a race with Chuckie and Dopeyperson for the quitesesntial wingnut. You don’t get it that no sane person is going to believe you about the birth certificate. What is so great about the insistence of the wingnuts about this issue is that they label themselves as nutty so that the only people who read them for anything but laughs are the other wingnuts. By all means get out there and support Palin. Oh by the way it looks like Sotomayor will be confirmed by eary October. Another battle lost. And it looks more certain we will have a healthcarebill by the end of the year. I am enjoying this – I just hope that you don’t go over the edge and have a complete mental breakdown over all the victories Obama is achieving.
Well I gotta get back to work – Thanks for the fun
The birth certificate is obviously critical, else why spend millions to keep it hidden? And I’d really like to see The One’s transcripts from undergraduate days and law school . . . . what’s the big deal?
To 129. Delia
I don’t know how your getting getting tagged by the mods… they must love me or something because I have posted some down right trollish, mean-spirited, useless and borderline childish comments on here lately and they’re just letting me run fricking wild….
TO: All
RE: The Age of Shallow
Must be great to be so old and still working. I guess he’ll NEVER ‘retire’….
….until ObamaCare ‘retires’ him.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. What was I saying about liars?
[You have to have a great memory in order to be an effective liar.]
P.P.S. Obviously, The Shallow’s memory isn’t quite up to it….
The money to pay for all this, is only a projection. If the really rich are tapped, there won’t be that much available. The really rich don’t pay taxes anyhow. They have ways to avoid income taxes. Those making above $250,000, employers and the doctors themselves will be taxed to help pay for the plan.
So businesses will increase the price of their products/services to the consumer and doctors will, if they are allowed, charge more for their services, or they’ll reduce their patient load. So far I haven’t read a provision that will give them patient quotas. That could happen, though.
The need for more money to pay for the program will expand exponentially and that $250,000. figure will have to be lowered in order to pay for coverage for everyone. It won’t be long until those making $100,000. or maybe even $50.000. will have to pay more in taxes to cover the ever-expanding costs for this program.
127. The Shadow: “If laughter is the best medicine the wingnuts are keeping me very healthy and since I am soon to turn 70, I need all the laughs I can get these days.”
Hey, you may be in the golden years, but at least you got to live to enjoy the total delf-destruction of the GOP. I regret that some of the elders in my tribe did not live long enough to see the ineffectual pathetic joke that the Republican party has devolved into. A Democratic admin is passing huge amounts of progressive legislation, and where is the GOP leadership? Nailing each other’s wives, fleeing their responsiblities to shack up with mistresses, quitting, and whining about birth certificates. And you get the satisfaction of knowing that the next generation coming up is overwhelmingly liberal. So I would say count yourself lucky to be alive right now. It’s a great time to be a liberal.
Banned, Moogster is da bomb! [in a good way ha-ah]
RoboT, I dunno what it is but some of my comments to Chuck or AThinkingPerson get moderated out. Maybe the mods don’t like us ‘conversing’ too much with each other? I dunno.
Chuck, if Shad is still working at almost age 70, no wonder he’s so OBVIOUSLY bitter. I’ll be ‘kind’ and not wish his kidneys to fail though.
Perhaps a big chunk of the Dem constituency really *IS* senile and feeble-minded? That would explain a LOT.
Yep, the next generation will get to see their children living in a third world county.
Just watch out for the old curmudgens that will tell your children and grandchildren what it was like to live in a free society and not held down by the government.
Yep, you are lucky guys.
TO: All
RE: Mike W & Sexual Fixation
I have to wonder if Mike hasn’t got a problem with sex. He keeps bringing it up as if it were some form of obsession. And always as a distraction from the topical thread. Meanwhile, ignoring all those people on the other-side-of-the-aisle, i.e., Democrats, who manifest much more of a predilection for immoral behavior.
Not that Mike is particularly ‘moral’ himself. After all….Democrats, as has been proven time and again, HAVE NO morals……at least as any reasonably prudent individual can discern.
I suspect he’s projecting his own desires upon those people he despises.
Too bad for him that we already recognize his behavior pattern.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....and Mike W will stand 'exposed' in the Light....of Judgement.....]
TO: Delia, et al.
RE: That ‘Big Chunk’
Either that, or in the case of Mike W, vivo, the Shallow, et al…..out-right sociopaths. Remember….a pathological liar is considered to be one of those.
And God knows we’ve seen enough habitual lying from Mike W and a number of his ilk. Not to forget the futile efforts to sidetrack the discussion.
Sooner or later….more likely not too much later….they’ll start more ‘direct action’ to silence the dissent. Like Communist China and Iran. And I have to wonder how Rich Moran—author of this thread—will take to that. Will he still call Obama ‘his president’?
RE: An Additional Thought
Reflecting on your comment (above)….
….I have to wonder about how these cretins kept ‘predicting’ that Bush would do something like that.
How much would you care to wager that they were ‘projecting’?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Be Prepared......]
The Libs who come here truly baffle me and while I have compassion for ‘some’ of them, the ‘others’ just bring out the absolute worst in me [something I'm trying my best to curtail regarding my reactions].
P.S. the ‘Alan Keyes’ comment you quoted was actually from Moogie [128. Moogie].
Another health tip [especially for women]:
Eat your fruits and veggies WITH your meat/egg/cheese/milk etc. protein sources. That old saying to eat a ‘balanced diet’ is so true. ‘low-carb’ and ‘high-protein’ diets are horrible for women. Google alkaline foods and ‘bone loss due to acidity’ to find out more.
It is SO important to eat enough fruit and veggies.
There. My PSA for the day. lol
Whoops. I meant my last reply to be to Chuck P.
Just to be clear.
TO: Delia
RE: Heh
These people, e.g., Mike W, vivo, et al., are not ‘Lib[erals]‘. Hell! I’m more liberal then these characters.
So are you.
These people are ‘progressives’. As in Communists….progressing towards totalitarianism.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]
To 146. Delia
I would love to go post on places like huffpost or DU… they have a habit of banning anything who isn’t indoctrinated in the “approved” view point. The few ppl like vivo and such stray here trying to find out what it really means to have free speech.
Excellent point, Chuck.
Scary. -And, I’m no wuss but, fear is fear and for good reason.
TO: Delia, et al.
RE: Fear
There’s no need for ‘fear’….at least on a personal level.
Fear for the nation? You betcha.
Fear for our children? True, again.
For ourselves? Not if we stand on a Rock [of Ages].
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Gird up your loins!]
P.S. The ‘fun’ is just beginning…….ALL PERSONNEL STAND UP!!!!
P.P.S. Don’t worry….once you get beyond the first ‘step’ everything thereafter is ‘easy’…..if you can Keep the Faith….
149. robotech master,
‘They’ are also employing the ‘Cloward-Piven’ strategy. Mayhem and chaos makers.
There are wars going on in heaven and hell, and there are wars going on right here as well.
TO: robotech master
RE: History Lessons
The course of history has proven that taking the ‘fight’ to-the-enemy is the ONLY way to win.
That these people at HuffPo, as well as Amy Alkon, Charles Johnson, Oliver Willis, ‘Armed Liberal’, Rachal Lucas, Joe Katzman, and whoever that woman is that runs Tim Whatizname-in-Australia, who hate to hear contrary views are allowed is a GREAT example of how hateful these people are of true discussion and honestly held beliefs.
They know they’re in the wrong. They’re so afraid of open discussion that they have to ‘kill’ anyone whe presents a cogent argument to support their observation of Life.
They’re weakings. And I welcome their murderous nature…in the blogosphere. It is proof-positive that they have no grounds to stand on.
However, if they decide to become stupid enough to go ‘physical’ in their murderous nature…..
….I’ve got an answer for them. Thanks to their obligations to our rich Uncle Sam.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[God is alive....and airborne-ranger qualified.....and so am I.]
151. Chuck Pelto,
Well, your last post made me cry. UGH. *swipes tear*
Damnit!
To 153. Chuck Pelto
Aye… I just hope I’m still young enough to enjoy the killing… I’m closing in on the big 3-0 and you know in military terms thats borderline old as dirt hehe. I’m still hoping Honduras will light up and take volunteers.
I guess we’ll see what happens its looking like things may come to ahead by 2012…. the irony of that date just makes it all the scarier.
It is good to see you back I haven’t see you posting in any threads for awhile figured you were busy getting your “club house” in order.
RO: robotech master
RE: Uhhhh
TO: Delia, et al.
RE: Heh
30??!??!
You, youngster…..
I’m pushing 60.
And, by the way….they…the military….will accept you up to 45….last time I checked.
Go Airborne-Ranger….and get a ‘Life’…..
….or lose it….in a worthy cause.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If you had a Life in the first place....you'll never have a mid-Life 'crisis'. -- CBPelto]
P.S. Absence…..
….due to doing more code[ing] of late….
To 156. Chuck Pelto
Go Airborne-Ranger….and get a ‘Life’…..
Been there done that. 3rd bat for about 6 months before I hurt my hip bad enough to get medded out. I’m to old and to lazy to deal with the army any more though I still debate rejoining for Q course. However thats never going to happen as long as obama is in. Why I’m hoping for Honduras… reasonable unskilled enemies plus another tour under the belt should help push me up to where I can get one of the vanishing merc jobs.
TO: robotech master
RE: [OT] Going for the Gusto
Great to hear that.
Just remember….
….no matter how bad off you are, they can ALWAYS call you back. Not necessarily to drop in on Tehran, but if you’ve got a skill they need….three guesses…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I’d avoid the mercs. Blackwater is giving them a VERY bad name…..
145. Chuck Pelto:
“in the case of Mike W, vivo, the Shallow, et al…..out-right sociopaths.”
The Ruler of Peltonia has spoken, uuuuhhhhhh!
148. Chuck Pelto:
“These people are ‘progressives’. As in Communists….progressing towards totalitarianism.”
The Ruler of Peltonia has spoken, uuuuhhhhhh!
149. robotech master:
“The few ppl like vivo and such stray here trying to find out what it really means to have free speech.”
Aside your derogatory words, I enjoy being in Pajamasmedia. It’s like being at the Star Wars galactic bar . . .
If it wasn’t for the few ‘stray’ fellows, your view of the world would be just perfect, sorry.
TO: All
RE: Intellectual Bankruptcy
See vivo at item #160.
I mean SERIOUSLY….his toying with being our local Acronym Control Officer (ACO) was more creative. I suspect the recreational drugs are taking their toll….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[You don't see any old drug users.]
P.S. Anytime that idiot cares to get back ‘on-topic’, I think we’d all appreciate it…..