When the Government Is in the Exam Room, It’s Bad for Doctor and Patient
Doctors go into the business of helping people. When the business of helping people becomes purely business, the joy is sucked out of the art and science of medicine. The government necessarily contains costs (when they attempt it) a couple ways: eliminating procedures covered, rationing care that is covered, and cutting fees. These three steps make doctoring effectively joyless and in some cases, impossible.
Patients get angry that certain procedures are not covered under the government-run programs, but it’s the government itself that is to blame. Or rather, people seem to have a disconnect between what the government is meant to provide and what an individual citizen must take care of himself. When the government gets involved in a person’s health care, the relationship shifts. The government sits in the treatment room and dictates the terms. Imagine having parents in the bedroom with a married couple directing what goes on in the relationship. How much fun is that? The spouse not related to the parents (the doctor) often wants a divorce. As Lorie Byrd says regarding health care, “It’s personal.”
As it is, patients with insurance have dual relationships and often forget that. They have a relationship with their doctor, but they also have a relationship with their insurance company. Sometimes they have to haggle to get the rights to do what they want in the relationship. Likewise, the doctor spends time negotiating with the insurance company, too. Still, there’s a difference between negotiating and being dictated to and that’s the difference between private insurance and dealing with Medicare.
Many doctors would rather take smaller amounts of money from the patient, cutting fees dramatically, and have a relationship with the patient than have their doctor-patient interaction interfered with by a disinterested third party. The fact is, a government bureaucrat does not care about the life or death of one random American citizen. They care about containing costs for the vague “greater good.” The motivation is all different.
The American people need to recognize that by giving the government the power in the health care equation, they give the government the nameless, faceless bureaucrat power over their lives from cradle to grave. Doctors already know the implication of this because of the parts of health care the government already controls. And some actually believe this to be a good thing. As reported in the New York Post, Ezekial Emmanuel — brother of Rahm Emmanuel — has a very different perception of the doctor-patient relationship:
Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, “as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others” (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).
Yes, that’s what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else.
Many doctors are horrified by this notion; they’ll tell you that a doctor’s job is to achieve social justice one patient at a time.
With government-run health care, there will no longer be a doctor-patient relationship. There will be a patient-government relationship. And the irony will be this: patients will still hunger for that unfettered relationship, so they’ll pay cash out of their own pocket to get it while being beholden to the government through oppressive taxation to fund this new, vast entitlement. Patients could, and do, pay cash now for care without the tax burden.
Not only is bartering, taking cash, or otherwise meeting a patient’s needs charitably more satisfying for doctors and patients, it costs everyone far less. Doctors want a relationship with their patients. They don’t want more government invasion. Should the government control health care, the doctor-patient relationship will be altered forever and not for the better.
She is right…Obamacare will empty the rolls of doctors who will accept payment from Medicare in certain specialties. Others will accept only a quota creating waiting lists or pushing patients into the hands of the sub-marginal practitioner….sort of a “Consultation to Dr. Darwin”.
Obama needs to look at the age distribution of the providers. The Clintons dramatically cut Graduate Medical Education and this is likely gone forever. Your next generation of specialists is currently training in India…although the grass may be greener there.
Finally, she has ignored the fourth party in the room…the national sleaze. Trial lawyers will continue to add 30% to the cost of healthcare. No cuts there.
The answer for most will be a parallel system…no cost shift to pay for government underfunding, no lawyers (arbitration based to again access), no ER, no End of Life Care, no HIV, no high risk OB, no Intensive Care units. Healthcare at 40% of the current cost.
“65 percent of doctors would prefer to treat Medicare and Medicaid patients for free than deal with the government.”
Doctors and insurance companies hire idiots to program and do their billing. The rate of billing mistakes is enormous but no one wants to deal with improving their systems.
Patients who don’t read or understand their bills may wind up paying something they don’t owe. Problems are not necessarily gov’t generated but business systems inadequacy.
Please dear Obama… destroy our way of life because you have personal issues that you need to go to therapy for. Oh and by the way, will your healthcare be government run?
I think we should all write to our representatives and let them know that a vote for Obamacare is a career ending choice.
Doctors deal with crippling malpractice insurance fees and other administrative fees. The best solution is to pay for your check-ups and small fees services and have insurance for serious injury or illness. If you need an example to urge you away from government run healthcare, you need look no further than what we already have: the Veterans Administration.
What an excellent article.
The thought of my doctors brings me to tears. They have customized treatment programs for me, they have LISTENED to me, and they have NOT STOPPED until I am better.
I owe them a debt of gratitude that words can’t express. Many people are so starry-eyed about the notion of socialist America, Utopian America, that they forget what’s at stake. Truly, if you don’t have your health, you don’t have anything.
Let’s figure out a way to get insurance for the uninsured WITHOUT the massive power grab of Obama. I don’t want to lose the wonderful doctor-patient relationship that is so vital to true, comprehensive healing. God bless the medical profession.
If the Doctors and Nurses are so against this Why is it that the AMA came out in favor of it?
Could somone please enlighten me?
Yes, because if the bad old GUBBERMINT is in the exam room, there might not be room for the nice INSURANCE COMPANY man who will decide that you might have a pre-existing condition or some OTHER reason to deny you care. And THAT would be BAD!
Cash for Clunkers–which was supposed to last until October ran out of money in 7 days–is a harbinger of things to come if we get Obamacare. Call your representatives. Express yourself at the town hall meetings. Let the legislators know that Obamacare, in a any form, is dead. And any support these same representative give to Obamacare & any other Obama initiate is toast in 2010.
My brother-in-law just passed away in a Veterans Hospital, and I was impressed with the professional and dignified care he was given by the hospital staff. My next door neighbor, an operating room nurse who worked in both civil and veteran’s hospitals has spoken of the excellent care that the patients receive there. She knows.
My young un-insured son who injured his arm requiring a visit to the emergency room was treated like a piece of meat. He only would have been given respect and dignity if he had a fistful of money in his hand.
Something has to be done about the high cost of health care, and as far as I am concerned the government will step in because the private sector will do nothing to fix it, as usual. We saw it on Wall Street, we saw it in the Real Estate Market, now we’ll see it in health care.
And by the way, private insurance negotiates medical cost. It is the uninsured patient who is charged often twice or more for the same procedures.
When I begin to see doctors and other health care professionals lose their homes, or get their big fancy cars repossessed, or are prevented from taking vacation, or lose their vacation home, because they can’t make a decent living from their profession, or their medical bills have taken over their lives, that’s when I’ll begin to think they are the ones suffering in this mess.
Just about every normal average person in the United States is scared to death of ending up old, sick and alone without decent care. Either every penny they save will go toward the health care industry, or they figure screw it, I’ll live for now, and to hell with the future.
I’m afraid that with the low confidence many people have with the private sector, that many think the government can’t do much worse. The world looks at people as either consumers, or producers and even worse, both are polluters. When you run out of money, you can’t consume, when you run out of energy you can’t produce. What the hell good are you then. The old, the sick, the injured, the young, are a burden on society and the private sector either profits from them or looks to the government to take over. Government Health care is inevitable.
The patient needs an advocate and they sure as hell won’t get it from the private sector, so they’ll look toward their elected officials for a fix or vote the bums out. The government will step in because no one else will and they want to get re-elected so they can buy their ticket on the gravy train too.
Ms. Clouthier has it exactly right. A public health system will be the equivalent of our public school system where the raison d’etre is to provide employment for a vast army of government clerks. You can put the word “public” in front of any noun with predictable results: public housing, public schooling, public toilet, et al., ad nauseum.
Dear Doctor,
Please do not forget to mention the huge inefficiency in patient treatment that the feds and their bureaucratic mind-set does and will impose with the paperwork involved. The insurance companies have their own paper work conumdrums, but nobody is better than the bureacrats and churning paper, or in this future scenario, electronic records keeping. Patient-doctor confidentiality could easily become a quaint notion of the past when all records of everybody become public domain.
Perhaps a point of this entire problem comes to weither one trusts govenment agents or private companies to manage their insurance budgets.
Lynn, what is the weather like on your planet?
A friend of mine went into the VA hospital for a leg operation. The operation went fine. The doctor went on vacation. When he got back and began making his rounds he asked my friend how the therapy was coming and my friend replied “What therapy?” It seems the VA staff missed the fact he was supposed to be doing therapy. My friend spent the next 6 months on crutches and still has to use a cane to get around.
My wife, with Medicare and full AARP coverage, after going to an urgent care center and being sent to the ER, they called ahead for her, spent from 10 AM to 2 PM in the hospital ER waiting room then from 2 PM to 9:30 PM in the ER examining room. She was discharged after some test with some pain killers and the phone number of a doctor to call the next day. She ended up with her gallbladder being removed.
Luckily this didn’t happen on a Friday or Saturday night when the weekly gun and knife show begins for all the people begins for the uninsured and non paying gang bangers, public assistance and illegal aliens and other Obama voters begins.
When the doctors start having their houses repossessed they won’t be having office hours or be doing hospital rounds. But I am sure you, as afree loading Obama voter, will be happy about that.
I’m still looking for an answer to this question: as someone on SS will I be able to drop plans A&D and my private supplement?
My personal experience dealing with my parents’ Medicare problems supports the contention “that 65 percent of doctors would prefer to treat Medicare and Medicaid patients for free than deal with the government.” However, I have heard Kathleen Sebelius, head of HHS, on several occasions state that doctors as well as patients think Medicare is wonderful. How and why does the main stream media permit her to so blatantly deceive the American people?
The AMA is a poor choice to hold up for your side. The AMA is a majority of university profesors and non practicing doctors in it’s administation. About 85% of its income comes from outside its membership. One wonders where the money comes from and who the AMA is beholding to. In effect it is a political orginization.
Also anyone who is looking for an advocate from the federal government needs to spend some time at the MVD, the IRS or most any government bureau. There are many fine government employees but the system rewards those who cover their own butts ahead of the good of their “clients”.
More transparency in how private insurance companies do buisness and an end to this stupid idea that health insurers can’t insure people from more than one state, that will fix the vast majority of the health system problems. Yes, free enterprise less restricted by government fiat.
30% of a health care bill is administrative overhead. That is non labor materials/supplies. With Obama. the overhead of billing clerks, approval process and red tape will increase handling expenses. As soon as we have single payor, we can have slow pay.
Where is the list of hospitals he wants to close?
Dear Flipper415:
Why didn’t your wife use your savings to get the proper care?
I’m from the planet earth where your friend received poor care in a VA hospital (alleged, maybe he needs a babysitter) and your wife received poor care in a private hospital.
Do you understand what I’m getting at? The government is not going to change whether you friend or wife gets good care, it’s the health care professional who was lacking in both cases.
Umm…I don’t know if your up on current events but it was President Bush who saw that the government stepped in and fixed the VA Hospital in Virginia after years of Democrat neglect(remember that)? Is that supposed to be an insult saying I’m a free-loading Obama voter? Funny how the AARP has changed the rules and the membership age requirement has become lower and lower. Soon they’ll be taking members in as young as two years old. They care about you and your wife until the bean counters tell them not to.
My brother just had his leg amputated in a private hospital and turned down home physical therapy because he couldn’t see paying for someone to watch him exercise. Now he’s wondering if the company he spent 22 years working for will find a position for him. He would take it whether he’ll need a cane or not. There’s nothing in writing, but they have assured him that his 22 years of loyalty will be considered. Funny, he’s not assured.
Oh, and Fuc! you, I should have voted for Obama just for the kick of pissing you off. Ah! laughter the best medicine.
Finally, here on planet earth the elected officials holler at each other by day, then have drinks together at night. Your stupid.
Patriot,
Good points. I, like you, am strongly in favor of finding a PRIVATE solution for the uninsured’s catastrophic needs. We should be paying out of pocket for the everyday and mundane. Insurance should cover the unforseen and catastrophic.
I would be willing to compromise about preexisting conditions and denial of access, if the free market is enhanced so greater choice comes into play. I am in favor of tax credits for those who carry coverage and greater access to medical savings accounts.I will never support expansion of a government run and mandated system that crowds out private insurers and moves us towards a socialized medical format. I would be in favor of teaching hospitals obtaining tax advantages or grants for providing health care to the less fortunate. The solution to all of this lies in incentive, not mandate.
Lynn and Deep Brain above are ignoring the fact that the overwhelming majority of American’s like their insurance and health care. I have seen polls consistently run at 60-82% regarding satisfaction. We should not throw away a system that has high satisfaction. We should find ways of privately improving access.
Let your Congress person know that a socialized solution is unacceptable and let them know why, respectfully. Recess starts in a few days. Educate your representative, be civil, but firm.
Some of you people are also forgetting – Insurance Companies have to ALSO follow a bunch of inane government regulations which drive up the costs.
Tort reform, let insurance companies cross state lines, quit “requiring” all this CRAP to be in plans that people don’t want OR need.
Make health insurance like car insurance. You don’t have your insurance pay for an oil change or a tire rotation. It covers BIG stuff like accidents.
If cost is so important, why not take a hard look at what can be done without spending an extra dime of tax payer money?
The present rules of medical malpractice liability force doctors to be on the defensive, protecting themselves behind huge malpractice insurance premia, instead of focussing primarily on being on the offense with regards to whatever obstacle to health they can identify in the circumstances of the patient.
Insurance companies cannot sell their product outside of their state boundaries. That’s another crazy cost burden which can be eliminated.
Third, if we were to terminate the hugely onerous governement health care programs and replace them with tax credits for health care providers when the perform services at a discount to those who cannot afford the whole fee, everyone could save money, including the government! Right now, the government is penalizing the provision of government sponsored care by reducing the doctor’s fees instead of rewarding the charitable contribution!
The Obamacare madness is full of hubris and devoid of imagination. Of course we can do better! Only a citizen revolt can force the government to back track. As long as we stupidly fail to claim our rights under the constitutions, they will be trampled by the Barney Franks of this world.
Why are we so afraid of job losses when they would affect government employees as much as everyone else? Why the double standard?
“When the Government Is in the Exam Room, It’s Bad for Doctor and Patient”
Your title and article are both preposterous.
As I am sure you are aware, most, is not all, of the other 29 industrialized countries use some form of a single payer/public plan.
And all of them cover everyone and deliver the same level of care.
For 1/2 the cost.
http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/23/3/10
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help’.”– Ronald Reagan. And how.
8. Deep Brain Diarist:
How about keeping the insurance man and the government man out of my patient-doctor relationship?
Jharp, just because you say so doesn’t make it so. If it really were so then Canadians and those Europeans that can afford the travel come to the US for serious illness. There is far too much evidence of delayed or rationed health care in those countries.
Lynn you depict a rare case where an individual actually received the proper care they needed from the VA. While the VA does include doctors and staff that are truly dedicated to serving the needs of our veterans they are hindered by those that do not care and simply want to receive a guaranteed paycheck and by the bureaucratic red tape that every individual must wade through. There is a reason why so many veteran advocacy groups have cropped up to assist veterans with the insane paperwork and the maze they must wander through in order to receive care. Then you go on to match an asinine statement with equally asinine behavior of your own.
It is important to observe the level of care received via the VA, medicare and medicaid programs. This will tell you all you need to know about Obamacare. Individuals being treated like meat in the ER has little to do with insurance or not. Some people just do not care. It also sometimes does result from not having insurance but it comes from individuals with poor attitudes as a result of poor regulation by the government over who is allowed access to these services. Medicaid is intended to assist families that during times of financial hardship have no access to health care. It is not intended to support illegal immigrants and those too sorry to get a job and take care of themselves. Because the government allows those persons to take advantage of these services, those that are truly in need of them and entitled as tax payers (people that actually have jobs and try to provide for themselves)to receive those services, get treated like trash by individuals in the medical profession (mostly people involved in clerical work)who look down their noses at them.
I have personally experienced care from all positions of coverage from medicaid to being covered 100% with no deductible and the quality of care I received from my health care providers did not vary at all. The only thing that changed was what the insurer, be it a private group or the government, was willing to pay for. If you have no insurance at all you will still receive life saving care at any hospital. Now doctors will be wary of providing additional care if you cannot pay for it but caring for a patient is not a cost free endeavor, and any practitioner has to make money in order to continue providing care. Even ‘free’ clinics must get money from some place. The Doctors may do their work free of charge but the money that pays for the medical supplies and the clerical/legal work has to either come out of their pockets or from an outside contributor.
If the government is in the position to decide what care you do and do not receive, what medication you can and cannot have, the misery index in this country will skyrocket without a doubt.
At least leftists like jharp are honest about where things are headed, if the Democrats have their way–socialized health care. Would that the Democrats themselves would be so forthcoming.
Since Obama’s birthday is upcoming Aug 4th, and he is such an avid advocate for the culture of death… I believe that this an extremely appropriate gift to send him.
With it, he can courageously demonstrate his personal commitment to his own agenda.
http://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/
Another primary point of contention in the nationalized insurance debate can be this: Would any of the Obama generated plans, not disregarding the taxation and regulations actually increase the health of the nation’s citizens? (I address that question on the macro, not the micro level of real health care for the professional victims who like to blame others for not helping them enough, soon enough.)
Opinion: Health care is the individual’s duty, and not the property of the state. Increasing insurance coverage does not yield a healthier population and contrary-wise, enables less personal health management.
Michael:
“Jharp, just because you say so doesn’t make it so.”
That is why I posted, you know, links, to substantiate my claim.
Because you choose to remain in the dark and not read them doesn’t make my claims false.
“Opinion: Health care is the individual’s duty, and not the property of the state.”
Travel is also the individuals duty and not the property of the state.
However, if the state pools all of our resources and builds a good infrastructure of highways, our travel becomes much more efficient. Much, much, more.
prospero:
“At least leftists like jharp are honest about where things are headed, if the Democrats have their way–socialized health care.”
No one, I repeat, no one is proposing or has proposed “socialized medicine”.
Rob:
“If you have no insurance at all you will still receive life saving care at any hospital.”
Flat out false.
Tell me why buy insurance if this is the case.
Try showing up at a hospital asking for some free open heart surgery. Or some free radiation for your wife’s breast cancer.
Jharp,
How do you get around Dr-patient privilege in the socialized system you want? It can be waived by the patient VOLUNTARILY. Mandating waiver will lead to legal challenges. Every state and the Federal Rules of Evidence recognise the privilege. The mandate of Obama care requires federal record keeping. I can’t imagine most judges are going to override long standing precedent to permit the Government to intrude into the DR-Patient relationship when a person refuses to give records to the government.
Further, how do you get around the accounting that shows trillion dollar deficits coming from Obama Care? It can’t possibly be neutral, revenue wise.
Most other industrialized nations do not have our Constitution and legal system. Many of those countries have permanent unemployment at rates exceeding 10 %. You want to create conditions for those things here? To cover a relatively small minority of people who want coverage but can’t get it?
We have the health care that the rest of the world seeks out when it comes to quality and delivery. Between 60 and 82 % of Americans are happy with the coverage they have. These people are now waking up about Obama care and its sorry construction. You are in a shrinking minority of people who think Congress’ scheme is a good idea. The President may get some form of reform, but the tide has turned against single payer and complete nationalization.
Jharp
You may seek to avoid calling Obama care socialized care. It is what it is. Clement Atlee would recognise it as socialized care (and probably he would be quite proud of it). My European immigrant friends recognise the house bill as a socialized system. Your attempt at euphemism is transparent and unpersuasive.
Samizdat:
“We have the health care that the rest of the world seeks out when it comes to quality and delivery.”
Is that why no one, not a single country in the world has a system similar to ours? And they all spend half of what we spend for the same level of care.
“The President may get some form of reform, but the tide has turned against single payer and complete nationalization.”
Since “single payer and the complete nationalization” were never on the table I don’t see how you can accurately claim the tide has turned.
“You may seek to avoid calling Obama care socialized care. It is what it is.”
No, you are was off base. Offering a public insurance option to compete with private insurance is not “socialized medicine”.
It never ceases to amaze me how many throw the term “socialized medicine” around without having a clue as to what it is.
People need to understand that part of the high cost of care that we pay now comes from the already existing Government Plans – Medicare and Medicaid. Government can control price, but it cannot control cost. When the government only pays a doctor roughly $1300/ hip replacement surgery, that doesn’t change the fact that the actual procedure costs much more. The extra cost must be shuffled somewhere else; in this case, it’s shuffled onto the rest of us with private plans or paying out of pocket. People have already addressed the nightmare of administrative costs and the additional cost added to the pot by medical malpractice insurance. Without tort reform, those added costs will not go away. Without removing a need to for paper work, those administrative costs won’t go away either, and it’s ludicrous to think that government will actually streamline its paper trail just because its now in charge from start to finish. And finally there’s the cost of pharmaceuticals. They cost too much, but what no one ever talks about is that the big pharma amnufacturers invest buckets bringing the drugs to market, and their markets are global meaning they sell to all countries, US aside. That means that in socialized care countries like Canada and the UK, the pharma companies often sell at a price controlled rate to the governments of those countries. Again, just because they sold the drugs at a controlled price doesn’t change the actual cost, and again, the cost gets shifted to those of us who buy the drugs at their honest rate making them that much more expensive for us. Imagine what the true cost of some of those drugs might be if everyone, world-wide paid the honest cost of those pharmaceuticals instead of forcing us to subsidize their crappy single-payer care systems?
The public option will drive out the private and will be all that is left. Once everyone depends upon the government for our health care, the government will tell us what kind of health care we can have, and how much. In the end, it will be more convenient to provide “free” health care, with the money simply taken out of taxes.
That’s the goal, mind you, whatever intermediary steps are taken now. Our job is to make thos intermediary steps as difficult, contradictory and unpopular as possible so that they are unlikely to be passed; if passed, unlikely to be implemented conpletely; and if implemented, overthrown as quickly as possible. Right now it’s looking like the Democrats will be deterred from doing what they want, and will retreat, make a few meaningless reforms, and declare victory. It’s too soon to tell, though.
From what I hear, the VA is pretty hit and miss. Some hospitals are good, but many are poorly run at best.
Jharp
You did ok until you stepped in it with your same level of care at half the cost statement. Simply incorrect, no other country has the US medical establishment’s level of innovation and care at half the cost.
Once again you resort to euphemistic arguments about the definition of nationalization and socialism to obfuscate what the proposed system really results in. The government option would quickly crowd out private insurance resulting in a government dominated and controled system that would provide care. That is a nationalized and socialized system by any measure.Note as well that Congress is talking about taxing the wealthy disporportionately to pay for Obama care.”From each according to his ability to each according to his need” I know several European immigrants who are warning me about where this is headed, they have lived through it.
I have a very good clue about what Obama care represents and what economic and political thinking conjures up such schemes. The system the Democrats are attempting to create will be expensive, will crowd out private insurers, will result in the government controling access to health care and will lead to a mediocre product that will have to be rationed. There are also privacy concerns that may proove to be insurmountable under US Law, both federal and state.
Jharp,
One more point. The government regulates travel and finances transportation, it doesn’t insure it. There are also private road ways in our country that provide access for a fee. Your point about efficiency is debateable as well. Turnpikes, privately owned airports and marine terminals are all efficient.
jharp, from the second of the two sites you link to (both of which are based on the same data):
ability to pay, as measured by GDP per capita, has repeatedly been shown to be one of the most important factors [in the relative high spending per capita in the US]. About 90 percent of the observed cross-national variation in health spending across the OECD countries in 2001 can be explained simply by GDP per capita.
The reason we spend so much is that we have the money to spend.
I saw a graph recently comparing the increase in hc spending in the U.S. to the increase in spending on veterinary care. Trend was virtually identical. Vet care costs have nothing to do with insurance costs; we’re placing increased value on pet care and therefore we’re spending more on it.
Your own sources suggest that the same thing is happening in human healthcare.
The only way a federal program could reduce that trend, then, is to start telling people “no” (or let us keep spending more, and raise our taxes year over year to pay for it).
I’ve also seen questions raised about claims made regarding quality of care. E.g. do infant mortality statistics adjust for different ways countries categorize infants (e.g. is a baby born pre-term, that dies, counted as an infant death). You seem like a thoughtful person. Have you seen similar rebuttals?
In any case, there are serious issues here unrelated to cost and even quality of care. Regardless of whether we call the bill “socialized” medicine or not, we’re contemplating putting the federal government in charge of administering and regulating a massive industry that is currently private sector. Personally, I don’t want to entrust Washington with that job. Too many politicians are dumb as rocks. Equally worrying, centralizing power makes it more vulnerable to corruption. I see no reason to believe that a federally-run system will be any more beneficent than one in the hands of insurance companies. Lots of risk, no reward.
And last but not least, it will be nearly impossible to un-do, if we do it. Look at how people view Medicare.
We’re considering a path that permits no backtracking.
There is already a bureaucracy between you and your doctor. Insurance companies decide which procedures and meds you deserve. I am tired of some underpaid phone flunky denying my child’s prescriptions. On the whole, the VA is run very well. Why can’t that model be an option for the rest of us? And I’m not shedding any tears for the pharmaceutical industry. Their share-holders are very happy.
33. jharp:
Hey SmartA$$! I know for a fact that you will get bypass heart surgery without insurance and without money. You’ll also be kept in the hospital until you are healthy enough to leave. Guess what, NO BILL!!!! It’s called indigent care. I know someone, visited him in the hospital, who did this last August! So, shut your pie hole until you know what you are talking about! We have the best medical care and you are pushing to screw it up!
These politicians voted Against the Nathan Deal Amendment, that would Prevent Health Care Benefits to Illegal Aliens. Simply put–it’s not their BLOODY MONEY! So what! Do they care if taxpayers have to foot the behemoth bill, for anybody who snubs our laws and enters a sovereign country called America? The nationwide parasites are –CHEAP LABOR–businesses who could care less, because they pile up enormous profits. The corporate hierarchy have been having a field day–FOR DECADES. A foreign national gets hurt, their service manager or whoever the underling is, drives the maimed person and relinquishes any responsibility by dumping them on the emergency hospital entranceway. BINGO! nothing to pay!
Perhaps Americans should find some old shoddy clothes, no shave, no haircut and enter every emergency room in our country in the millions? Speak a lot of gibberish and carry no identification with a small splinter in their finger, a touch of a fever or any minor condition. By federal law the hospital will have an emergency on a–EMERGENCY. I am afraid Americans have been Lemmings going over a proverbial cliff, since who knows when? We just keep paying and paying even more to the IRS, to support–ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Try getting free health care in any other country, other than societies in the European Union? A FAT CHANCE! We are literary being taxed to death, to give welfare to the business overlords.
Even our Democrats who are trying to engineer health care for every American—INCLUDED 20 PLUS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND THEIR LARGE FAMILIES. Here are 29 Judas Iscariot’s, who sold the American people out–for a lot more than 13 pieces of silver? HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR. Capps (D-CA), Eshoo (D-CA), Harman (D-CA), Matsui (D-CA), McNerney (D-CA), Waxman (D-CA), DeGette (D-CO), Murphy (D-CT), Castor (D-FL), Rush (D-IL), Schakowsky (D-IL), Braley (D-IA), Sarbanes (D-MD), Markey (D-MA), Dingell (D-MI), Stupak (D-MI), Pallone (D-NJ), Weiner (D-NY), Butterfield (D-NC), Space (D-OH), Sutton (D-OH), Doyle (D-PA), Gordon (D-TN), Gonzalez (D-TX), Green (D-TX),Welch (D-VT), Christensen (D-VI), Inslee (D-WA) and Baldwin (D-WI). I’m afraid I would be banned if I used the right epithet, when leaving a comment for these so called lawmakers?
These are the betrayers of–ALL–taxpayers. These 29 traitors gave illegal immigrants the right to pilfer your billfold and purse, while they sit in their Washington office collecting their 6 figure salaries. REMEMBER THEM AND THROW THEM OUT! DEMAND NO AMNESTY! NO FAMILY UNIFICATION KNOWN AS CHAIN MIGRATION! BUILD THE ORIGINAL FENCE! NO MORE HEALTH CARE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF BENEFITS FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. CLOSE THE BORDER AND STATION THE NATIONAL GUARD. $2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS, JUST IN RETIREMENT BENEFITS? Learn uncorrupted facts at NUMBERSUSA.
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“Doctoring can be a soul-satisfying blend of human connection, scientific inquiry, and technical mastery. The doctor is motivated by solving the mystery, delivering excellence, and helping the patient feel better.”
Well said.
Medicine is a guild, almost a cult or religion, which holds to a higher standard and includes more than the physician in its ranks.
It expects to trump all other moral, religious, economic, or political considerations in the pursuit of its goals and that is as it should be.
Reality of course, is nothing like that, which is why someone has to hold the standard high above the battlefield. There are many who cannot see themselves as holding to a higher standard anymore.
Just yesterday I underwent a battle with the chief of medicine in our hospital. He has requested a procedure which put the patient at tremendous risk of spending the rest of her life on dialysis. I had countermanded the order and performed a much safer diagnostic procedure instead, one which yielded the same accuracy of results as the more risky one. He was furious because of nothing but ego. He threatened to stop referring, a big economic and political blow to the entire department.
I can tell you that there are those who would have done it anyway just to keep this guy happy and improve their own standing in the hospital.
Corporate medicine is no picnic. Neither is government medicine and I know both very well. I also know that, on a moral plane, medicine is an impossible task to achieve. Any doctor, nurse, paramedic, pharmacist..etc can tell you that.
What will happen under Obama care? One thing for certain is that demand for services will skyrocket, placing huge strains on our existing resources.
The negative feedback loop here is that as primary care docs must see more patients in the same amount of time there will be more referrals for specialists and diagnostic resources. They, in turn will be forced to churn out the work faster under the same constraints.
The powers that be call this ‘cost savings’. I can get more stress tests done per time-dollar now. I just saved costs and get a nice bonus this year.
Quality will be measured by committee. The same committee chaired by the doctor I referred to above. Medical evidence will be treated as it is increasingly in the UK. Uber-committees doing meta-analysis (meta-analysis is subject to the same problem of picking patients to suit your hypothesis except you are picking articles) and publishing guidlines.
So long as one adheres to the guidlines one might be allowed to continue to practice so long as your numbers are up. Just dont piss-off the chairman.
Simple phrases dont work here. I think the forces at work cannot be stopped. Medicine has unlimited demand and would love unlimited resources. It is run by and for human beings with all of our wonderful weakness and astonishing strength.
I would call out to medics everwhere to hold our line and not let our work be cheapened. We can do this at work by taking the extra 15 minutes anyway and looking at the administration with a defiant “so fire me’.
They are doing their job, and we are doing ours.
Spindok
21. Professor Guvinoff:
“The present rules of medical malpractice liability force doctors to be on the defensive, protecting themselves behind huge malpractice insurance premia,”
Why can’t we legislate to establish a cap on liability awards? Those pain and suffering awards are usually ridiculously high.
As a doc adding my 2 cents– somehow I get the feeling that the administrative overhead for all this nonsense is going to be enormous. There will be the regulation writers, the army of paper pushers, the compliance officers, the investigators, the periodic witch hunts for “waste, fraud and abuse!!” It will just go on and on. Practically a make-work stimulus package in itself.
As a doc, I have to say that it feels like the people that used to be the front office help have taken over MY business. Totally upside down.
DaMonk45 asks, “If the Doctors and Nurses are so against this Why is it that the AMA came out in favor of it? Could someone please enlighten me?”
The AMA only represents a minority of American doctors (and no nurses at all, it’s a physician group not a generic healthcare provider group) and many of them are only members to get the AMA medical journal anyway. It’s not in any way representative of American physicians as a whole. They’d like you to believe that they are, of course, so they can have more clout, but they’re just not.
vivo, TX did exactly that a few years ago and so many doctors are moving here they have a backlog at the licensing board. Of course, trial lawyers split the extortion with Democrats so O! will never consider it.
Vivo, stupid. Caps just protect the doctors/hospitals/other care providers from being responsible for the persons they injure most severely and catastrophically through negligence or bad medical practice. The bulk of medical malpractice payments are made to the same repeat offender doctors. For some reason doctors are so consumed with “there but the grace of god go I” that they have weak and forgiving rules for discipline of malpractice. Chasing out incompetents and substance abusers and doctors who have temperament problems leading to patient danger would improve the lot of real professionals, but they assume that one little innocent slip up will be the end of their own career or fortune. This is a sad misperception but I”ll conceed it shapes medical decisions.
They know so little about tort law they have all kinds of fanciful notions about what it is and how it might affect them directly.
Clouthier is right…private dealings make for better doctors treating individuals instead of herds.
There are two questions I ask everyone who argues in favor of the health care bill.
1. Have you read the bill?
The answer is always ,”No.”
I have read it. Yes, I waded through the mind-numbing 1000+ pages. I know what it says, and I know how the government will be legally able to control what treatments you receive— or are denied.
2. Do you know how health care under this bill will be paid for?
Again, the answer is always, “No.”
Well, neither does the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, so you’re in good company there. No one knows how this will be paid for…. or if it can be paid for.
Obamacare delenda est.
Regarding the AMA, it supports Obamacare because there is a provision that reduces the cut in physician Medicare reimbursement from about 20% which is currently proposed to about 4-5% in Obama’s plan. That’s a very short term benefit as I’m sure they will ratchet up the cuts over 5-10 years.
Regarding AMA’s membership, most physicians (about 80%) do not belong. Most regard it as not representing their professional interests and consider it a political lobby that seeks to financially benefit its members rather the profession in general.
Regarding Vivo’s question about legislating caps on malpractice liability, it has been done in several states. The problem is that state legislators are generally lawyers who tend to be sympathetic to Trial Lawyers lobby. Even Republicans have been known to vote in opposition to Tort reform bills. The most extreme example has been Mississippi, where Trial Lawyers have literally controlled the state legislature. That’s why plaintiff’s lawyers try to move major cases to that state for trial. Only recently has this begun to change with Gov. Barbour.
‘Why can’t we legislate to establish a cap on liability awards? Those pain and suffering awards are usually ridiculously high.’
That would help.
What would also help is that the plaintiff’s attorney in malpractice suits would have to declare whether he was billing the plaintiff hourly, very unusual, or working for costs and a high percentage of any settlement, almost always the case. If he is working for a percentage, the plaintiff’s attorney, not the plaintiff, would have to post a bond to cover the defendent’s costs if the defendent wins. That would markedly reduce the number of suits that are dismissed or found for the defendent. As it is, deep pocket law firms roll the dice on questionable cases hoping that some number of them get a big payoff or settlement out of court.
Another thing that would help immensely is instituting a requirement that a class action suit requires that the law firm bringing it first produce a solid estimate of the numbers of people affected, then provide the court documentation that a certain percentage of the estimate have joined the class action proactively. Cannot be by default. That would markedly reduce class action lawsuits that bring little or no actual compensation to the aggrieved parties, but 10s of millions to the law firm bringing the action forward.
Both of these remedies have been approached (in more detailed forms obviously), along with the one one mention. All have been defeated by the tort lobby.
Republicans and democrats have bowed to the lobbyist’s interests over the public’s interest on tort reform, so the blame for the failure of tort reform crosses the aisle.
The real problem is healthcare by government entitlement.
One of the few Republicans in congress should propose an total elimination of Medicare and the VA system.
Our veterans could receive insurance vouchers.
If citizens did not prepare for their “golden years” it is not the problem of others.
If people can’t afford to pay for their healthcare, they don’t get healthcare.
Period.
Compensation cannot undo a wrong, but it can provide support for families struggling with medical expenses and future cost of living concerns, and can help provide peace of mind.
And in every one of these cases a jury of ones peers, in the greatest legal system the world has ever known, heard the evidence and decided in favor of the plaintiffs.
But you jackasses think cerebral palsy, caused by a doctors negligence, that compensation should be decided by government bureaucrats. And not judged by a jury.
Why do you hate the Constitution.
# The largest medical malpractice jury verdict ever won in the District of Columbia ($24 Million) – for a child who suffered brain damage and cerebral palsy because her doctors failed to properly diagnose and respond to an airway obstruction.
# The largest birth injury verdict ever in Minnesota ($15.5 million) on behalf of a child who suffered brain damage and developed cerebral palsy and mental retardation as a result of mismanagement of labor and delivery. This exceeds the previous largest such verdict in MN by more than $6 million, which was previously obtained by The MEDLaw Legal Team.
# $10.8 Million jury verdict for a child who suffers from cerebral palsy and mental retardation due to a failure to respond to signs and symptoms of a uterine rupture.
# Jury awards record $9.3 Million verdict for child’s cerebral palsy caused by brain injury sustained during birth.
# $7.35 Million recovery for a child because of a failure to respond timely to signs of a placental abruption resulting in severe brain damage.
# $6 Million recovery for a child who suffered cerebral palsy because of a mismanaged labor and delivery.
# $5 Million recovery for a child who suffered cerebral palsy and mental retardation because of a mismanaged labor and delivery.
# $4.25 Million recovery for a child who has brain damage and a seizure disorder because of a negligent failure to respond to severe dehydration in a newborn.
# $4 Million recovery for a child who suffers cerebral palsy and mental retardation due to a mismanaged labor and delivery.
# South Carolina jury awards $3.7 million to family for cerebral palsy injuries suffered at birth following doctor’s failure to perform a timely delivery. Read More
# $3.25 Million recovery for a child who suffers cerebral palsy and mental retardation due to a mismanaged labor and delivery.
# $3 Million recovery for a child who suffers cerebral palsy due to a mismanaged labor and delivery.
# $2.9 Million recovery for a child who suffers cerebral palsy and brain damage due to a mismanaged labor and delivery resulting in urine rupture.
# $2.75 Million recovery for a child who suffers cerebral palsy due to a mismanaged labor and delivery.
# $2.6 Million legal malpractice recovery against the attorneys who failed to obtain appropriate medical experts to support the case for a mismanaged labor and delivery resulting in cerebral palsy.
# $2.5 Million recovery for a child who suffers cerebral palsy and mental retardation due to a failure to respond timely to signs of a placental abruption.
# $2.3 Million verdict in failure to properly manage pregnancy resulting in death of the baby before birth.
The greatest health care system in the world.
Last week, a Frederick County jury found two doctors responsible for Ryan Dineen’s cerebral palsy and awarded the boy and his mother, Suzette Dineen, $4 million in damages. The award is thought to be the highest awarded for medical malpractice in the county.
According to the cerebral palsy lawsuit, Ryan’s mother had arrived at the hospital shortly after 5:00 a.m. on May 7, 2000 with severe abdominal pain, diarrhea and vomiting. She was eight months pregnant.
Hospital protocol is that women beyond 20 weeks of pregnancy who exhibit such symptoms be monitored in the labor and delivery suite. But Suzette Dineen was instead monitored by nurses in the emergency room for three hours before a physician saw her.
The physician had been called in because the nurse was unable to locate the baby’s heartbeat, which the obstetrician determined was low and ordered an emergency caesarean section. By this time, the complaint said it was about 8:20 a.m. and Ryan was born approximately 15 minutes later.
His heart was not beating, he was not breathing and he needed to be resuscitated. Consequently, Ryan suffered brain damage resulting in injuries that will lifelong care.
The greatest health care system in the world.
And you fools want a government bureaucrat limiting the Mother as to how much she can recover.
Why do you hate our jury system?
Last week, a Frederick County jury found two doctors responsible for Ryan Dineen’s cerebral palsy and awarded the boy and his mother, Suzette Dineen, $4 million in damages. The award is thought to be the highest awarded for medical malpractice in the county.
According to the cerebral palsy lawsuit, Ryan’s mother had arrived at the hospital shortly after 5:00 a.m. on May 7, 2000 with severe abdominal pain, diarrhea and vomiting. She was eight months pregnant.
Hospital protocol is that women beyond 20 weeks of pregnancy who exhibit such symptoms be monitored in the labor and delivery suite. But Suzette Dineen was instead monitored by nurses in the emergency room for three hours before a physician saw her.
The physician had been called in because the nurse was unable to locate the baby’s heartbeat, which the obstetrician determined was low and ordered an emergency caesarean section. By this time, the complaint said it was about 8:20 a.m. and Ryan was born approximately 15 minutes later.
His heart was not beating, he was not breathing and he needed to be resuscitated. Consequently, Ryan suffered brain damage resulting in injuries that will lifelong care.
Jharp: “Offering a public insurance option to compete with private insurance is not “socialized medicine”.
It’s the syllogism stupid:
Single payer systems are socialized medicine.
The public insurance option inevitably leads to a single payer system.
The public insurance option inevitably leads to socialized medicine.
Many here may just be jackasses but they certainly aren’t so dimwitted as to miss the characterization of the public option as competition as just deceptive nonsense. It would inevitably become not an option as the public never competes with the private as the public operates under completely different constraints – it has none. It doesn’t have to make ends meet as it can always just tax more. It will always end up with monopoly power.
At least be as honest as Barney Frank. He fully admitted (bragged actually) a couple days ago that the public option would inevitably lead to a single payer system. That’s the whole idea. Single payer is merely a euphemism for socialized medicine since advocating state ownership of industry is what defines socialized anything. So why the word games? Because few Americans would buy anything overtly claimed to be Socialism so it is necessary to go Orwellian and claim that black is white and the government “competes” in any real sense.
If your going to be a Socialist at least be proud of it.
Jharp
Thanks for the ad hominem attacks in your last couple of posts. Reall y mature of you.
Drs are not gods and they are not perfect. Damages should be capped, how is subject for debate. That is a point to be negotiated. It is not an argument for nationalizing or socializing health care. Your arguing non sequiturs. Just because a small minority of Drs commit acts of negligence is also not a logical argument for destroying the demonstrably finest health care system in the world.
Drs are not the enemy and neither are insurance companies. I saw a poll today that showed 84% of Americans are satisfied with their health care. That makes the poll range between 60% and 84% satisfied customers. There are about 5 million uninsured who want coverage and can’t get it. I will agree with you we need to solve that problem. I won’t agree to chuck out our whole system for a minority that makes up 2% of our population.
jharp:
Rob:
“If you have no insurance at all you will still receive life saving care at any hospital.”
Flat out false.
Tell me why buy insurance if this is the case.
Try showing up at a hospital asking for some free open heart surgery. Or some free radiation for your wife’s breast cancer.
NOW YOU TELL ME !!!
I hate to think of all those nights and weekends I spent operating on people with no insurance when I didn’t have to. Where were you when I needed you ????
My favorite was the illegal alien who was walking on the railroad tracks Memorial Day 1986 listening to his SONY Walkman. That was before iPods, for you kids. Well, the train came along and 63 units of blood later he was stable. I had to take out half his liver but the liver regenerates. A couple of weeks later, his brother, who spoke English, brought him to my office for a post-op visit. He was doing fine. During the conversation, I learned that they had a lawn care business. I suggested that he could mow my lawn for a year to repay me for saving his life (You should have seen the anesthesiologist’s eyes bug out as he pumped blood).
No, they said. They were too busy.
I spent 40 years caring for people who came to the emergency room with no insurance. If only I had had jharp there to advise me.
Personally, I think there is a way to reform the health care system and improve the situation we presently have. I have some ideas on my blog under “health reform.” As an aside, I spent 40 years in the practice of surgery and got another degree after I retired in health economics at Dartmouth.
What we see in Congress right now is not reform; it is a mess of government corruption and patronage.
But you jackasses think cerebral palsy, caused by a doctors negligence, that compensation should be decided by government bureaucrats. And not judged by a jury.
But you jackasses think cerebral palsy, caused by a doctors negligence, that compensation should be decided by government bureaucrats. And not judged by a jury.
I learn something every day. All the science says that cerebral palsy is caused by intrauterine vascular accidents in the fetal brain. Birth trauma has nothing to do with it. Now, jharp has new information. What journal is that in j ?
To 52. Don’t Tread. Very good first two questions. The third, however, is the most important. “Will members of Congress and all federal employees be covered exactly the same way as those of us who don’t work for the government?” An answer other than “yes” tells you the we, the unwashed public, are being taken for a ride.
Just a comment about the AMA. The AMA, which I am convinced now exists mainly for the benefit of the large LEGAL staff who work for it, thinks it has made a deal which will limit the financial impact of Obamacare on physicians. Why its legal staff, who are lawyers, imagine that the government staff, who are lawyers, can be trusted, is a complete mystery.
Ask question 3 every time you have a chance to interact with a legislator!!!!
Oh, almost forget. Although the personal tragedies that fill #57, jharps, list of malpractice awards, are tragedies indeed, the perinatal mortality rate is a whole lot lower in countries that (1) have obstetricians than in those that (2) do not. In this country, not too many ob-gyns continue to practice ob very long after they realize the risk-benefit ratio, considering the risk of enormous liability incurred while getting up to deliver babies at all hours of the night. Some parts of this country already are in group (2) for practical purposes. The relentless drumbeat of the malpractice band will not help them get back to group (1), nor will it help those in group (1) stay there. Natural childbirth may be a necessity, rather than a luxury, in this country at some point in the future. Whom will you blame then??
Chris Dodd needs to resign NOW
I hope he makes a full recovery from his prostate cancer in jail.
The corruption needs to stop and he is the worst.
The weasel needs to go.
Chris Dodd resign NOW
Single payer is not socialized medicine.
Medicare is a single payer. And it works pretty well. Do you favor doing away with Medicare?
And the only way a public plan might possibly lead to a single payer if it delivers the same quality of care for less.
And somehow you think that’s a bad thing?
If the public plan sucks, people simply won’t use it.
Why in the world shouldn’t we try a public plan? 29 othere countries do and have the same level of care for half the cost.
“I hate to think of all those nights and weekends I spent operating on people with no insurance when I didn’t have to. Where were you when I needed you ?”
ER’s cannot turn folks away, that is true. However chronic care is denied every day, lot’s of times.
HEALTHCARE-EUTHANASIA BILL
This is much more than a health bill, it is a massive attack on our freedom. It is the CONQUEST of Americans by the U.S. Government. A Coup Where Government Would Even Have Access to Americans’ Bank Accounts.
WORLDNETDAILY.COM
July 31, 2009
Obamacare called
‘euthanasia bill’
Critic: ‘Reflects regime worse
than China’s one-child policy’
July 31, 2009
By Bob Unruh
The Democrats’ proposed national health insurance plan would dictate medications, treatments and mental health services; determine coverages individuals are allowed to have.
In the Liberty Counsel analysis, Staver notes that under Section 163, the government would be allowed to have real-time access to individuals’ finances, including direct access to bank accounts for electronic funds transfers.
Under Section 1308, the analysis finds, the government will dictate marriage and family therapy as well as mental health services, including the definitions of those treatments.
It also, according to Staver, “covers abortions, transsexual surgeries, encourages counseling as to how many children you should have, whether you should increase the interval between children.”
And as people age or get sicker, it includes mandatory “consultations” offering suggestions on how to end life sooner, he said.
“In the name of population control, Holdren has advocated both forced abortion and compulsory sterilization through government-administered tainting of the water supply. In a book he co-authored, entitled ‘Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment,’ Holdren calls for a ‘Planetary Regime’ to enforce mandatory abortions and limit the use of natural resources,” he wrote.
“Those 65 and older will be required to undergo mandatory ‘end of life’ counseling to determine if they are worthy to continue to not only live, but take much needed resources from those who are younger and more worthy to receive them. Counselors will be trained to discuss how to end life sooner, how to decline nutrition and hydration, how to go into hospice, etc.,” she said.
“This will not be done without coercion. For those who have amassed assets enough to take care of themselves in their old age will have these assets confiscated in the name of fiscal responsibility, because by this time, every citizen will be entered into a national database under the guise of improved efficiency. This database will be run by a type of ‘star chamber,’ appointed by the president, that will determine whether or not you deserve the much needed operation your personal doctor thinks you need,” she said.
…regulate whether seniors can have wheelchairs, penalize hospitals or doctors whose patients require “readmission,” prevent the expansion of hospitals…
Under Section 440, Liberty Counsel said, the government “will design and implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids and families that expect children.” And Section 194 provides for a program that has the government “coming into your house and teaching/telling you how to parent,” LC said.
“One of the most shocking things is page 425, where the Congress would make it mandatory absolutely that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session,” she said. “They will tell [them] how to end their life sooner.”
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=105525
Obama’s Civilian National Security Force
Obama promised change. The End of America as we know it:
Obama: “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y
PRAVDA: America’s Descent into Marxism – Brief Video
http://www.solutionsfromscience.com/
@DocDavid — I agree.
In fact, the sign I was holding at a recent rally while I asked pro-Obamacare supporters those questions read: “If Obama and Congress won’t sign up for the health care plan, why should I have to?”
#66
This will probably interest you. I have a doctor friend (he is a surgeon for urological matters – not sure what you call that) who sent out 600 letters to other doctors and patients that effective Dec. 31 he would no longer take any insurances public or private. He feels that it is a certainty he will soon no longer be able to make ends meet even if HR3200 is not passed. He says he spends OVER half his time on paperwork now. His plan is simply to go pay to play. You want a surgery – write him a check. I pointed out to him that it seemed unlikely that most people could pay what that would amount to and he responded that, on the contrary, everyone will be shocked at how little he will have to charge once he is out from under the insane system we have created. He plans to do this for only the next few years though because he believes the next step by our government will be to take away his license to practice medicine unless he plays ball.
#42
You are absolutely correct in your observation that world health statistics are reported differently between nations and are continually used to malign the U.S. health care system. Infant mortality is exactly one where the U.S. reports on every single instance from every member of society whether legal or not and does so starting from admittance of the mom in labor. France, for example, does not include infant mortality reports if the infant dies within 24 hrs. of birth with many European nations of similar though differing reporting methods..that alone skews WHO stats beyond black and white. Canada, as another example, does not by it’s definition of it’s own legal definition of their native population fully report statistics for them as “Canadian”.
This I learned as part of a stats class required for a degree in Sociology from a liberal(not a big “L” one)professor who advised to always take a deeper look at what was behind those numbers..particularly in WHO reporting. One thing that is very hard to argue against is that by far the U.S. has the best cancer recovery rate of any Western nation. We can attribute that to many things including the value/cost we place on health in this nation as well as the inordinate amount of R&D that occurs here…our current system is far from ideal but I really don’t feel that emulating other nations with the scope of the current proposed bill is any answer.
“He plans to do this for only the next few years though because he believes the next step by our government will be to take away his license to practice medicine unless he plays ball.”
You are a lunatic. If you truly believe this I feel sorry for you.
And if your doctor friend too believes it, well, that is pretty frightening that we have utterly delusional people practicing medicine.
zenpig:
#42
You are absolutely correct in your observation that world health statistics are reported differently between nations and are continually used to malign the U.S. health care system.
_____________________________________________________
Again, a very popular wingnut talking point.
And without any supporting evidence. None, nada, zilch, zero.
Maybe it’s time for you folks to admit the obvious. Our health care system sucks and is in dire need of major reform. It has become so costly that we’re actually going to try a system that’s works very efficiently in every other country in the world.
Imagine that.
I know it’s gotta be hard to take that a black President is going to get the credit for it. But face the facts, your guys had their chance and blew it. Monumentally.
51. SarahW:
Addressing someone as ‘stupid’ and then plunging with an explanation is very impolite. Do you want me to address you as ‘bitch’ and then give you a paragraph? Are part of the herd thinking of uncultured pajammers?
50. SDN: Thanks.
54. Chris:
“Regarding Vivo’s question about legislating caps on malpractice liability, it has been done in several states. The problem is that state legislators are generally lawyers who tend to be sympathetic to Trial Lawyers lobby. ”
Very illuminating points. It’s a shame lawyers seek to enrich themselves with people’s suffering and place a financial burden upon the rest of us. They are probably CINOs (Christians In Name Only).
“The Jacksonville (Fla.) Public Libraries have avoided a lawsuit by abandoning their short-lived practice of presenting a “Hogwarts’ Certificate of Accomplishment” to young readers who finished the latest—and at 734 pages the largest—of the Harry Potter books.
Liberty Counsel of Orlando, a religious legal-defense group, told the September 12 Florida Times-Union that it was satisfied with the library’s decision to stop handing out the mock diplomas to those who completed Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
…
Liberty Counsel President Mathew Staver objected that “witchcraft is a religion, and the certificate of witchcraft endorsed a particular religion in violation of the First Amendment establishment clause.”
I think we can safely say that any analysis of any legislation by Liberty Counsel should be peer-reviewed by someone less differently-sane.
And WND should really consider that there might be a few doubts about their objectivity. This is as bad as CNN deciding that Green Left Weekly was a reliable source, or that the Socialist Workers’ Party was unbiased and objective.
So much of US politics these days doesn’t seem to be about Left vs Right, things that rational people can disagree about. It’s about hysterical nonsense, stuff that’s made up, tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories, while the tax-evaders and pork-barrel kleptocrats funnel money to genuinely dubious causes under cover of the hysteria. The character-assassins who attacked Palin, and the Birth-Certificate conspiracists, they’re two sides of the same coin. Conservatives do their cause no good by allowing the loonies to take over the asylum.
having the corporate profit motive in the exam room is even worse.
Obviously, jHarp, you are a lawyer. The vast majority of Cerebral Palsy is NOT caused by medical malpractice- I know. My sister had cerebral palsy and she is why I went into medicine and later learned the truth about CP. You, on the other hand, earn your money on the suffering of brain damaged children while blaming innocent doctors for their misfortune. Which is why, on the whole, I’d rather associate with Doctors than lawyers. And I do not see a lot of lawyers doing missionary work- I guess there’s no money in it.
If we are so keen to copy the British medical system, why don’t we copy their Legal system of “Loser pays”? Lawyers are like ticks, sucking the lifeblood out of the American system- medical, and all other businesses. Perhaps we need a system like Medicare to handle our legal system and reign in the outrageous salaries of attornies? Call it “LegalCare”. Then the government can dictate to you how much you earn and what you can do!