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	<title>Comments on: The Doctor Is In: National Health Insurance = Longer Life?</title>
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		<title>By: Smarty</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-82414</link>
		<dc:creator>Smarty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-82414</guid>
		<description>We need to shoot the lawyers first, then compare health care costs. Risk avoidance procedures and practices are costing us a fortune.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to shoot the lawyers first, then compare health care costs. Risk avoidance procedures and practices are costing us a fortune.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Reyes</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-82374</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Reyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-82374</guid>
		<description>If socialized medicine would make Americans live longer, then the longest lived people would live on Indian Reservations, since all Native Americans with proper papers can get free medical care in the clinics, and there is an extensive outreach for social services, dietary instructions, help with transportation to specialists etc.

A similar outreach to poor rural and inner city folks by subsidizing Migrant clinics and other clinics has been less successful, and many inner city blacks distrust the medical system because of the Tuskeegee experiment (not to mention the snobbish superiority of a lot of docs, both domestic yuppies and foreigners). 

Want to help people get healthy? Import IHS type people with cross cultural sensitivity to work in problem neighborhoods. 

As for rural people, I quit rural private practice when my malpractice became higher than my take home pay. Again, subsidizing salaries and &quot;respite&quot; coverage would help docs settle in isolated towns...

As for obesity etc... there is an obesity epidemic here in Asia. Other countries are merely behind the curve...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If socialized medicine would make Americans live longer, then the longest lived people would live on Indian Reservations, since all Native Americans with proper papers can get free medical care in the clinics, and there is an extensive outreach for social services, dietary instructions, help with transportation to specialists etc.</p>
<p>A similar outreach to poor rural and inner city folks by subsidizing Migrant clinics and other clinics has been less successful, and many inner city blacks distrust the medical system because of the Tuskeegee experiment (not to mention the snobbish superiority of a lot of docs, both domestic yuppies and foreigners). </p>
<p>Want to help people get healthy? Import IHS type people with cross cultural sensitivity to work in problem neighborhoods. </p>
<p>As for rural people, I quit rural private practice when my malpractice became higher than my take home pay. Again, subsidizing salaries and &#8220;respite&#8221; coverage would help docs settle in isolated towns&#8230;</p>
<p>As for obesity etc&#8230; there is an obesity epidemic here in Asia. Other countries are merely behind the curve&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cas</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-81924</link>
		<dc:creator>cas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-81924</guid>
		<description>Oh Lord, where to start with this subject?
I have been trying for some time to find the &quot;right to free lifetime medical care&quot; in the US Constitution, which is STILL the overriding law in the US...nothing yet, but who knows what new &quot;progressive&quot; Supreme Court justices may find there...
I do not have the statistics to prove it, but my &quot;guesstimate&quot; is that a LARGE portion of the rise in Health Care costs is due to procedures / care / drugs that were simply not available before. These treatments have extended life expectancy worldwide beyond any expectation; simply compare the statistics from 1908 and 2008, for any country, and when analyzing the underlying causes, be sure to include the increase in the emphasis on PUBLIC health / hygiene (sanitation, disease epidemic prevention, immunization, etc.)
I believe that for the first time in the history of mankind, &lt;i&gt;preventable&lt;/i&gt; disease is among the leading causes of death, as opposed to war, famine, trauma, etc. Why is this a bad thing? Just ask yourself; how prevalent was cancer before these radical changes took place?
Those commenters that attribute the rise in &quot;childhood&quot; death to murder, need to break those figures out by specific age group. I think they will find that &quot;juvenile&quot; offenders (i.e, teenage felons) contribute to those statistics overwhelmingly. 
I agree with majority of the comments that the key to longer life expectancy / lower health care costs is PREVENTION; i.e., quit smoking, eat better, exercise more, get checkups more often (to detect conditions that are treatable early such colon or breast cancer). But Americans CANNOT be FORCED to take this advice, so why should taxpayers be FORCED to PAY for Health care for those who ignore this advice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Lord, where to start with this subject?<br />
I have been trying for some time to find the &#8220;right to free lifetime medical care&#8221; in the US Constitution, which is STILL the overriding law in the US&#8230;nothing yet, but who knows what new &#8220;progressive&#8221; Supreme Court justices may find there&#8230;<br />
I do not have the statistics to prove it, but my &#8220;guesstimate&#8221; is that a LARGE portion of the rise in Health Care costs is due to procedures / care / drugs that were simply not available before. These treatments have extended life expectancy worldwide beyond any expectation; simply compare the statistics from 1908 and 2008, for any country, and when analyzing the underlying causes, be sure to include the increase in the emphasis on PUBLIC health / hygiene (sanitation, disease epidemic prevention, immunization, etc.)<br />
I believe that for the first time in the history of mankind, <i>preventable</i> disease is among the leading causes of death, as opposed to war, famine, trauma, etc. Why is this a bad thing? Just ask yourself; how prevalent was cancer before these radical changes took place?<br />
Those commenters that attribute the rise in &#8220;childhood&#8221; death to murder, need to break those figures out by specific age group. I think they will find that &#8220;juvenile&#8221; offenders (i.e, teenage felons) contribute to those statistics overwhelmingly.<br />
I agree with majority of the comments that the key to longer life expectancy / lower health care costs is PREVENTION; i.e., quit smoking, eat better, exercise more, get checkups more often (to detect conditions that are treatable early such colon or breast cancer). But Americans CANNOT be FORCED to take this advice, so why should taxpayers be FORCED to PAY for Health care for those who ignore this advice?</p>
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		<title>By: Northern Light</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-81218</link>
		<dc:creator>Northern Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-81218</guid>
		<description>The way I see this is that Dr. Haldeman believes that America&#039;s lower life expectancy isn&#039;t due to the lack of universal health coverage, it&#039;s because Americans are fat, drunken, homicidal maniacs. I guess the Americans who visit Canada are exceptional. Most of the ones I&#039;ve met were very nice and no fatter or drunker than the average Canadian.

Would the high homicide rate be due to the accessibility of guns in the USA? Oh, it can&#039;t be. Americans just like to murder each other. Guns aren&#039;t to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I see this is that Dr. Haldeman believes that America&#8217;s lower life expectancy isn&#8217;t due to the lack of universal health coverage, it&#8217;s because Americans are fat, drunken, homicidal maniacs. I guess the Americans who visit Canada are exceptional. Most of the ones I&#8217;ve met were very nice and no fatter or drunker than the average Canadian.</p>
<p>Would the high homicide rate be due to the accessibility of guns in the USA? Oh, it can&#8217;t be. Americans just like to murder each other. Guns aren&#8217;t to blame.</p>
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		<title>By: tanstaafl</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80971</link>
		<dc:creator>tanstaafl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80971</guid>
		<description>Good points, AgingMom.

Also, goy, in your link, especially on the shift from medical insurance as catastrophic to medical insurance as comprehensive.  And the AMA&#039;s encouragement of same.

Which has impacted the plethora of tests, see esp. scans, and how medical facilities pay for all the new high tech equipment.

Naturally, your average patient wouldn&#039;t be able to effectively handle those kinds of costs out of (personal) pocket.  But the deep pockets of government and insurance quickly &quot;shell out&quot; for tests that doctors have managed to get onto &quot;approved&quot; lists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, AgingMom.</p>
<p>Also, goy, in your link, especially on the shift from medical insurance as catastrophic to medical insurance as comprehensive.  And the AMA&#8217;s encouragement of same.</p>
<p>Which has impacted the plethora of tests, see esp. scans, and how medical facilities pay for all the new high tech equipment.</p>
<p>Naturally, your average patient wouldn&#8217;t be able to effectively handle those kinds of costs out of (personal) pocket.  But the deep pockets of government and insurance quickly &#8220;shell out&#8221; for tests that doctors have managed to get onto &#8220;approved&#8221; lists.</p>
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		<title>By: Akatsukami</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80709</link>
		<dc:creator>Akatsukami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80709</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;If you think you get free health care in an emergency room, you’re nuts. If you needed life-saving care you might get it, along with a humongous bill that if you couldn’t pay would result in being sued.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

So, then, you should countersue for the EMTALA violation, yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>If you think you get free health care in an emergency room, you’re nuts. If you needed life-saving care you might get it, along with a humongous bill that if you couldn’t pay would result in being sued.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>So, then, you should countersue for the EMTALA violation, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: AgingMom</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80539</link>
		<dc:creator>AgingMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80539</guid>
		<description>(1) For years I have been seeing &quot;human interest&quot; stories of people from all over the world coming to the USA, legally or otherwise, to get medical treatment for all sorts of problems.  We already know that illegal aliens use the emergency room as the source of much of their free medical care, including the birth of their anchor babies.  If we make health care &quot;free&quot; everybody in the world with cancer, etc., will make a beeline for the USA.  And we will be &quot;too compassionate&quot; to tell them to get lost.  There is truly no upper limit on how much socialized medicine could cost in the USA.

(2) The system in Japan may work because it only treats Japanese people, who tend to take pretty good care of themselves and who are smart enough to read and understand the directions on the medications that they are given.  Recent studies have shown that a significant portion of America&#039;s underclass is UNABLE to read, understand, and follow the directions for their medications.

(3) German doctors often fly to England for the weekend to make extra money by working shifts in English hospitals because they are underpaid in Germany.  Which means that they are exhausted whichever country they are working in.

(4) Today&#039;s Telegraph or BBC online (can&#039;t remember) had an article stating that most of this year&#039;s crop of graduating doctors in Britain do NOT have jobs lined up even though the country desperately needs additional doctors.  Apparently, the older doctors who have their own practices are afraid to hire any additional help because the government is opening new &quot;polyclinics&quot; and it is not known how much &quot;business&quot; the polyclinics will take away from the established medical practices.  In Britain, the government is always setting &quot;targets&quot; for the health service to meet that lead to adverse outcomes.  Example:  The government told the hospitals that they had to treat everyone coming into the emergency room within a certain amount of time.  Result:  The hospitals ONLY unload ambulances when they are certain that they will be able to provide treatment immediately.  In some cases, the ambulances are lined up outside the hospital for hours, unable to leave and provide ambulance service for others because they can&#039;t unload the patient they already have.  If you need an ambulance, there aren&#039;t any available, they are all parked in front of an emergency room somewhere.

(5) Canada&#039;s system only works because they have the hospitals of the Northern USA to provide neurosurgery and high-risk obstetrical care when their own overburdened system blows a gasket, and because wealthier Canadians often purchase U.S. medical services out of their own pockets.  If the USA adopts socialized medicine, what country will handle OUR shortages of care?  Mexico?

(6) I have had retired relatives on Medicare who had oodles of leisure time, and made all sorts of medical appointments for VERY minor medical problems.  If you have &quot;high&quot; co-pays, people are going to complain that the poor are shut out of the system.  If you have &quot;low&quot; co-pays, or no co-pay at all, I guarantee you that many of the elderly people in my neighborhood will visit at least one or two doctors each and every week.  Lonely people LOVE to go to the doctor, and if it is free, they will abuse the system.  Offer them free ambulance rides, and emergency room visits, and they will take lots of free ambulance rides and go to the emergency room on a regular basis.  Showing up in the emergency room is often a way for them to get a visit from their children and grandchildren and to be the center of attention.

(7) I have no medical insurance myself, and I have had some serious problems.  I think that the government should do something about the fact that the pharmaceutical companies seem to sell affordable drugs everywhere in the world except the USA, but having the government provide &quot;free&quot; medical benefits in our country, with its open borders, will be nothing short of a disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(1) For years I have been seeing &#8220;human interest&#8221; stories of people from all over the world coming to the USA, legally or otherwise, to get medical treatment for all sorts of problems.  We already know that illegal aliens use the emergency room as the source of much of their free medical care, including the birth of their anchor babies.  If we make health care &#8220;free&#8221; everybody in the world with cancer, etc., will make a beeline for the USA.  And we will be &#8220;too compassionate&#8221; to tell them to get lost.  There is truly no upper limit on how much socialized medicine could cost in the USA.</p>
<p>(2) The system in Japan may work because it only treats Japanese people, who tend to take pretty good care of themselves and who are smart enough to read and understand the directions on the medications that they are given.  Recent studies have shown that a significant portion of America&#8217;s underclass is UNABLE to read, understand, and follow the directions for their medications.</p>
<p>(3) German doctors often fly to England for the weekend to make extra money by working shifts in English hospitals because they are underpaid in Germany.  Which means that they are exhausted whichever country they are working in.</p>
<p>(4) Today&#8217;s Telegraph or BBC online (can&#8217;t remember) had an article stating that most of this year&#8217;s crop of graduating doctors in Britain do NOT have jobs lined up even though the country desperately needs additional doctors.  Apparently, the older doctors who have their own practices are afraid to hire any additional help because the government is opening new &#8220;polyclinics&#8221; and it is not known how much &#8220;business&#8221; the polyclinics will take away from the established medical practices.  In Britain, the government is always setting &#8220;targets&#8221; for the health service to meet that lead to adverse outcomes.  Example:  The government told the hospitals that they had to treat everyone coming into the emergency room within a certain amount of time.  Result:  The hospitals ONLY unload ambulances when they are certain that they will be able to provide treatment immediately.  In some cases, the ambulances are lined up outside the hospital for hours, unable to leave and provide ambulance service for others because they can&#8217;t unload the patient they already have.  If you need an ambulance, there aren&#8217;t any available, they are all parked in front of an emergency room somewhere.</p>
<p>(5) Canada&#8217;s system only works because they have the hospitals of the Northern USA to provide neurosurgery and high-risk obstetrical care when their own overburdened system blows a gasket, and because wealthier Canadians often purchase U.S. medical services out of their own pockets.  If the USA adopts socialized medicine, what country will handle OUR shortages of care?  Mexico?</p>
<p>(6) I have had retired relatives on Medicare who had oodles of leisure time, and made all sorts of medical appointments for VERY minor medical problems.  If you have &#8220;high&#8221; co-pays, people are going to complain that the poor are shut out of the system.  If you have &#8220;low&#8221; co-pays, or no co-pay at all, I guarantee you that many of the elderly people in my neighborhood will visit at least one or two doctors each and every week.  Lonely people LOVE to go to the doctor, and if it is free, they will abuse the system.  Offer them free ambulance rides, and emergency room visits, and they will take lots of free ambulance rides and go to the emergency room on a regular basis.  Showing up in the emergency room is often a way for them to get a visit from their children and grandchildren and to be the center of attention.</p>
<p>(7) I have no medical insurance myself, and I have had some serious problems.  I think that the government should do something about the fact that the pharmaceutical companies seem to sell affordable drugs everywhere in the world except the USA, but having the government provide &#8220;free&#8221; medical benefits in our country, with its open borders, will be nothing short of a disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharonsj</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80202</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharonsj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80202</guid>
		<description>If you think you get free health care in an emergency room, you&#039;re nuts.  If you needed life-saving care you might get it, along with a humongous bill that if you couldn&#039;t pay would result in being sued.  Last time I went to the emergency room with a broken arm I got a sling, aspirin, and a bill for an X-ray--and nothing else.  What you call socialized medicine I would call finally getting treatment.  I can&#039;t afford any medical insurance, and although I would qualify as disabled, I can&#039;t afford any of the tests to prove it, so I can&#039;t get any help, not from the government, not from any organization.  Finally a clinic treated me at a lower cost, but I still have to find the money for the pills myself.  I have to get one of the drugs from outside the U.S. even though our wonderful legislature made that illegal.  Medical assistance in this country is nearly non-existent and I&#039;m just waiting for the rest of the fools on this blog to come down with a disease they can&#039;t afford to treat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think you get free health care in an emergency room, you&#8217;re nuts.  If you needed life-saving care you might get it, along with a humongous bill that if you couldn&#8217;t pay would result in being sued.  Last time I went to the emergency room with a broken arm I got a sling, aspirin, and a bill for an X-ray&#8211;and nothing else.  What you call socialized medicine I would call finally getting treatment.  I can&#8217;t afford any medical insurance, and although I would qualify as disabled, I can&#8217;t afford any of the tests to prove it, so I can&#8217;t get any help, not from the government, not from any organization.  Finally a clinic treated me at a lower cost, but I still have to find the money for the pills myself.  I have to get one of the drugs from outside the U.S. even though our wonderful legislature made that illegal.  Medical assistance in this country is nearly non-existent and I&#8217;m just waiting for the rest of the fools on this blog to come down with a disease they can&#8217;t afford to treat.</p>
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		<title>By: goy</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80168</link>
		<dc:creator>goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80168</guid>
		<description>&quot;When I was young, we (not a wealthy family) could pay for routine healthcare. Insurance was for catastrophic illness and was rarely used.&quot;

Same here. Same with everyone I know who&#039;s even close to my age.

But then catastrophic coverage morphed into comprehensive coverage. And our skyrocketing health costs woes began as a direct result.

$80 sound low to me. Most people have no idea how much a visit to their doctor actually costs. The only thing that registers is the &quot;co-pay&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When I was young, we (not a wealthy family) could pay for routine healthcare. Insurance was for catastrophic illness and was rarely used.&#8221;</p>
<p>Same here. Same with everyone I know who&#8217;s even close to my age.</p>
<p>But then catastrophic coverage morphed into comprehensive coverage. And our skyrocketing health costs woes began as a direct result.</p>
<p>$80 sound low to me. Most people have no idea how much a visit to their doctor actually costs. The only thing that registers is the &#8220;co-pay&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: tanstaafl</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80140</link>
		<dc:creator>tanstaafl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-we-live-longer-with-national-health-insurance/#comment-80140</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...most other civilized countries, including Cuba, have universal health care. This has nothing to do with politics...&lt;/i&gt;

Always interesting to compare, for example, Castro&#039;s &quot;healthcare&quot; (an entire wing of a hospital just to treat the old boy and a special treating physician imported from Spain during his gastrointestinal crisis)with that &quot;healthcare&quot; the average Cuban might receive.

I&#039;d be hard pressed to believe that politics doesn&#039;t play a role in treatment/medical options in any country, regardless of universality of healthcare.

I&#039;d be hard pressed to believe that in the US Ted Kennedy (for his own condition and the medical trials of 2 of his children) doesn&#039;t have access to options largely unavailable to most citizens.

I don&#039;t think the &quot;universality&quot; of healthcare would affect these sorts of imbalances in any country.

Anyway, Canada and Great Britain are currently wheeling under the weight of the bureaucracy and costs of their longstanding systems.  

When I was young, we (not a wealthy family) could pay for routine healthcare.  Insurance was for catastrophic illness and was rarely used.  

Now, even a routine 5 min. with a doctor costs an insurer something like $80, up from the $40 basic office visit of just a few decades ago. 

So out of whack, everything is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;most other civilized countries, including Cuba, have universal health care. This has nothing to do with politics&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Always interesting to compare, for example, Castro&#8217;s &#8220;healthcare&#8221; (an entire wing of a hospital just to treat the old boy and a special treating physician imported from Spain during his gastrointestinal crisis)with that &#8220;healthcare&#8221; the average Cuban might receive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be hard pressed to believe that politics doesn&#8217;t play a role in treatment/medical options in any country, regardless of universality of healthcare.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be hard pressed to believe that in the US Ted Kennedy (for his own condition and the medical trials of 2 of his children) doesn&#8217;t have access to options largely unavailable to most citizens.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the &#8220;universality&#8221; of healthcare would affect these sorts of imbalances in any country.</p>
<p>Anyway, Canada and Great Britain are currently wheeling under the weight of the bureaucracy and costs of their longstanding systems.  </p>
<p>When I was young, we (not a wealthy family) could pay for routine healthcare.  Insurance was for catastrophic illness and was rarely used.  </p>
<p>Now, even a routine 5 min. with a doctor costs an insurer something like $80, up from the $40 basic office visit of just a few decades ago. </p>
<p>So out of whack, everything is.</p>
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