Fury in Holland Over Wilders Prosecution
Wilders is in serious trouble. Although prosecutors thought they did not have a strong case against him, judges — and those are the ones who truly matter in the Dutch legal system — think differently. If a court decides that an individual has to be prosecuted, chances are he’ll be convicted. The sentence could be a fine, but a short imprisonment is possible as well.
Two laws function as the foundation for the criminal case against Wilders. The first is a highly controversial law that forbids “insulting or denigrating God.” The second is a law criminalizing the insult of groups on the basis of religion, race, gender, etc. Both laws are limits on the freedom of speech, which is not considered limitless according to the Dutch constitution.
Freedom of speech certainly is important (it is a constitutional right), but the constitution itself says that the government can limit it to “protect and/or guarantee order.” Over the years, more laws limiting the freedom of speech have been added, eventually resulting in a legal ban against just about every possible insult. Not only is it illegal to insult the queen or a “befriended head of state,” it is also illegal to insult groups or individuals.
Freedom of speech no longer exists in the country once famous for its tolerance and freedom.
Although 53% of the Dutch support the prosecution of Wilders, 47% do not. Dutch society is divided about his prosecution. This is confirmation that the country is deeply divided along ideological and cultural lines.
Most of the 47% of Dutchmen who oppose the prosecution of Wilders are “rightists” (Dutch liberals — not American liberals who we call “progressives” here — and conservatives). These groups are also often sympathetic towards Wilders. The VVD is currently the biggest conservative (or liberal) party in the Netherlands, but it is feeling the heat from Wilders’ PVV.
VVD leaders are aware of the danger and have stepped up their criticism of Wilders in recent months. The party’s leader, Mark Rutte, has railed against Wilders on a variety of occasions, accusing him of being a promoter of instability and a man who cares more about attention than about getting things done. The attacks were an attempt to isolate Wilders, and to convince conservative voters that the VVD is the party that can govern on conservative principles.
After the court ruling became public, however, Rutte came to Wilders’ defense. He asked Justice Minister Ronald Plasterk to abolish laws that limit the freedom of speech. Plasterk responded furiously, arguing that now is not the time for such a debate.
Plasterk may be right. And Wilders certainly is a man who enjoys stirring up controversy and causing outrage after outrage. His prosecution will also undoubtedly help him in the polls: 47% of the Dutch oppose it, meaning they may vote for him just to make clear to everyone else that prosecuting those with differing opinions is not acceptable. The most recent poll already shows that the controversy has made Wilders more rather than less popular: while his party would have received 17 seats in the 150-seat parliament if elections were held one week ago, it would now receive 20, which is eleven more than it currently has. This would make his party exactly as big as the VVD, which would also get 20 seats today.
However, this case is not about Wilders nor about party politics. It is not even about religion. Rather, it is about the very core of our liberal democratic system, and about the Dutch tradition of accepting and tolerating all opinions, no matter how politically incorrect. Whether one agrees or disagrees with Wilders is irrelevant; if he is found guilty this time, someone else will be the victim of these un-Dutch laws months or years from now. Soon, no one will have the courage to say anything that someone may find insulting.
Wilders is more often wrong than right, but he is correct when he says that freedom of speech is more valuable and more important than an imagined “right” not to feel insulted. His prosecution has already ignited a major firestorm; it seems possible that the result of the court ruling will, ironically, be that laws limiting the freedom of speech will be abolished and the Dutch can once again have a society in which everyone feels welcome and accepted. No matter how controversial one is.
If not, things will go downhill from here, probably resulting in more limitations and less freedom. This would be a terrible result for those who love freedom — whether they agree with Wilders’ views or not.
Just more evidence that Europe is only a few steps away from ruination. The hell with them and screw Islam.
Our very own “dear leader” has already decreed at least one talk show host we should no longer listen to. Democrats simply can’t compete in an open competition so they must prepare the field of battle in advance. Schools, Universities, Media, etc. It’s all been infiltrated and managed to assist Democrats.
I remember the Holland of the late sixties and early seventies: the generation that started feminism, made pot smoking legal, prostitution became both legal and safe, and in general their society became the international model of a balance between care and freedom. One most admired.
Now something has gone horribly wrong: the same generation that brought societal freedom now is “tolerating” a violent group of people who have an imaginary friend that lives in the sky and tells them to overthrow the culture of those who don’t obey this imaginary friend.
Its too late for the Dutch, the Islamization of their country is a certainly, probably within fifteen years, but the rest of us should watch and make sure it does not happen to our country. That we do not assist those who wish us to slide back into the ninth century.
A political class that doesn’t give a hoot what the people think and will do anything to stay on top of the heap. We Americans aren’t unfamiliar with this and we’re going to learn so much more about it over the next 4-8 years.
I wish we had more patriots like Wilders in our government instead of the spineless lot we have.
Let’s face it, liberals only display tolerance until they get their way. After that, all other rights go out the window. We have that coming in megadoses.
The author makes the claim that Gilders is more often wrong than right. Sounds like the Dutch are halfway to dhimmitude. Shame on the Dutch. First Hirsi Ali and Theo Van Gogh. Now this. Sad.
If this goes to trial, Wilders needs to get as much of it televised as possible. The people need to see how insane these charges are and the Government, judiciary and people of Holland need to be embarrassed about this.
The law needs to be changed that the only illegal things to say is ‘Fire!’ in a crowded place and to threaten someone’s safety. By the way, I can think of a group that’s been making an awful lot of threats to people for speaking their mind…
The question in the subheading reads, “Why would a nation with a long free-speech tradition make ‘insult’ a crime?”
3 answers:
1. Because they drank the PC kool aid.
2. Because they fear the Muslim community terrorists more than they fear the loss of their freedoms.
3. Because, as is clearly stated in the little 1 sentence paragraph buried deep in the article, “Freedom of speech no longer exists in a country once famous for its tolerance and freedom.”
Although, upon a little thought, I see that the sentence I quote there is not quite accurate either. Freedom of speech DOES exist in Holland. It’s just not applied to everyone now, only to certain groups.
The Muslim community terrorists OBVIOUSLY have freedom speech. And, due to their great, distorted, unholy freedom of speech (apparently protected by the government of Holland) they get to decide who else can have it…or not.
Of course, most of the stupids who elected obama probably couldn’t locate Holland on a map if their life depended on it, so they would have no concern over these European events.
Rightbrain….3….”the rest of us should watch and make sure it does not happen” to our country.
Agree with your conclusion…but I have the sick feeling that indeed, we are all WATCHING…right now…and we’re going to sit here and watch it happen.
After a recording of obama were released prior to the election, in which he specifically stated that he didn’t like parts of the Constitution of the United States, I contacted elected officials and simply asked if they were willing to publicly state that they did approve of the Constitution of the United States. I didn’t get a single response of any kind. (and I am not one who is constantly flooding the e-mail boxes of politicians with overload stuff)
I’m beginning to wonder if the boat has already left the dock.
Right Brian:
What went wrong? This went wrong:
“the generation that started feminism, made pot smoking legal, prostitution became both legal and safe,”
It is not the sum of it, only part of the whole, but the injection of immorality, multiculturalism and moral relativism under the guise of “tolerance” is one of the errors at the root of these problems. also, it is not true that anyone outside of the Left “admired” the Dutch for their licentiousness. Most decent people deplored it, and there were predictions that there would be disastrous consequences to it. Those predictions have now come true.
Americans must take alarm at these developments for there is every reason to believe that they will not confined to the EU.
People who think that this cannot happen here are kidding themselves. The Europeans are the canary in the coal mine for the West.
Where is the prosecution of those savages that threaten to kill the unbelievers? Just insanity!!
I trust the Dutch to come to their senses eventually, maybe too late to keep Wilders out jail, but he may inspire the needed courage in a people who may be down but not yet out.
Seems to me the Koran and the Mullahs quoted by Wilders are the ones deserving of prosecution. Wilders was simply quoting their views, not his!! So where lies the hate, the messenger, or the message?
I really hope the Dutch don’t expect us to help them again because we are becoming a bunch of chickens**t “Progressives” here, too. Kiss your feminism, weed and working girls good-bye. Your hope and change are on their way. I wish you the best, but the world has to wake up to the fact that Evil doesn’t always wear a stahlhelm or drive a Tiger tank.
14moron…I think you need to change your name! You have stated the core issue accurately.
The fact that Holland’s courts do not dare to act on the obvious illuminates how deep the damage is. The war is over for Holland. And they lost.
So how is the US any different?. Obamas’ 1st formal tv interview was to a muslim sat network. He has willingly and slavishly embraced dhimmihood. It will be up to armed Americans to save ourselves from traitors like Obama. And, oh yes, I DO question his Patriotism.
When is Holland or any other European nation going to prosecute hate speech against Jews? Until they do so this prosecution and other like it are no more than pandering to the Islamo fascists who are outbreeding the Christian populace and buying the politicians.
Question: What kind of self respecting society, etc. Answer: Holland is not a “self respecting society”. They are cowardly dhimmis, interested only in prostrating themselves to barbarians. And yes, there is a definite psycho-sexual dynamic at work here. These liberals are also of the mindset to participate in masochistic rituals, you know the type: “Yes Hussein, f#ck me harder, you bitch”, lol. What better way to demonstrate public subservience?? They get excited just thinking about.
Question: Why would a nation with a long free-speech tradition make “insult” a crime?
Answer: White, Liberal Guilt. WLG is a form of depression and should be treated as such. Acquiescing to threats of violence in the fraudulent hope “they” will like us” is just like sticking your head in the sand. I’m not saying all Muslims are bad people, but undeniably there is a segment that harbors nothing but hate for the “infidels”. Will these mosques preaching hate and intolerance now be prosecuted? I doubt it. White… Liberal… Guilt.
“And yes, there is a definite psycho-sexual dynamic at work here. These liberals are also of the mindset to participate in masochistic rituals, you know the type: “Yes Hussein, f#ck me harder, you bitch”, lol. What better way to demonstrate public subservience?? They get excited just thinking about.”
Are you sure about that? Sounds like projection/wishful thinking to me, lol.
“When is Holland or any other European nation going to prosecute hate speech against Jews? Until they do so this prosecution and other like it are no more than pandering to the Islamo fascists who are outbreeding the Christian populace and buying the politicians.”
Er, hate to spoil your theory but they already do prosecute anti-semitism. You just don’t read about it in the right-wing ‘new’ media because it doesn’t fit the picture they want to paint of Europe or the world in general
.
http://www.nisnews.nl/public/160109_2.htm
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/03/news/Austria-Holocaust-Denial.php
Well, we made the silly Hollywood kooks take down their effigy of Palin. At least there was a similar move on an Obama effigy, but we let them have bush effigies.
I can’t stand it when free speech becomes politicized and tossed into the “legal” world.
Numb your mind with legal drugs.
F*** yourself silly with legal prostitution.
Just don’t exercise free speech.
Who’s driving this bus?
How does one denounce something without insulting someone? Is it really their position that we must support all actions, no matter how heinous? (Presumably, the police are exempt fomr this law.) How does a judge, having ordered a prosecutor to prosecute against his best judgment, preside over the trial impartially?
Holland is a strange place indeed. Still too early to say if I’ll miss it when it’s gone.
When I was a child I remember reading the “Emperor’s Clothing” and could not believe that the Emperor could be so stupid.
As an adult I have come to see how wise that story is. And it is practiced everyday by the politically correct.
The Europeans have a history of waiting too long to do something about trouble until it is too late and then have a world war to fix it.
This time they had better not count on the US to save the day. The country that bailed asses out of fires is on its way to non-existence.
This is the cultural Marxism. The State knows best for how people must think.!!!
Obamanism comes to the Euroweenie nation par excellence!Let ‘em stew in it!
I find this most disturbing, the prosectuion of Wilders isn’t so much becasue he expr essed his opinion, as the government is *afraid* of riots and explosive vests used by one segment. That segment is rapidly usurping control of a democracy by extortion. I believe we are entering an age where the messengers are to be shot on site.
okay, that should have been sight.
53% of the Dutch support the prosecution of Wilders
Looks like they have crossed the tipping point.
Any Dutch who do not get out now while the getting is still good deserve what they are going to get.
Plasterk is not the minister for Justice, that’s another *sshole called Hirsch-Ballin. His speciality is arresting cartoonists who insult islam (I kid you not, you couldn’t make this stuff up)
The Finnish media reported yesterday that the police are ready to press charges against a councilman for “inciting hatred against a group of people” (Somalis). Apparently he wrote that muhammed was a pedophile and Islam accepts such a conduct.
The Finnish authorities have in practice shut down free speech in Finland; many bloggers shave been investigated and fined. A couple days ago the head of Finnish Security Police said that the country has 3 to 5 years to deal with the immigration issues before those who are marginalized might be recruited to serve international terrorism.
The state prosecutor wrote in his doctoral dissertation that: “In a democratic country there must be a possibility to introduce strong criticism towards government and its policies. Issues relating to immigration are part of government’s policies. If criticism relates to immigrants as well, it is acceptable as long as the criticism is not said aloud.”
The minister of immigration has stated: “I wish we would stop always just investigating, whether an incoming person is a terrorist or not. We should give him a chance”
All these arguments point to nothing. If jews or the holocaust cannot be discussed freely then stop baying about freedom of speech. It is the dutch system that decided he should be prosecuted not Saudi Arabia or Iran, that is why you lot are all disappointed. This film he produced passed unnoticed the world over except on right wing nut case media. For those saying that Europe is finished remember that none of them has elected a president with HUSSEIN as his middle name, therefore your focus should be closer home. This imaginary fight Americans like you have picked up with Muslims has done nothing but bring America almost to its knees. At least we know that is what George bush rode to victory on in 2004.
“…this case is not about Wilders nor about party politics. It is not even about religion. Rather, it is about the very core of our liberal democratic system, and about the Dutch tradition of accepting and tolerating all opinions, no matter how politically incorrect.”
This seems incorrect to me; I think the case IS about Wilders (the judges seem to be sick of his big mouth, and ready to slap him if they can find an excuse, however silly), party politics DOES seem involved (isn’t it always?), religion is a huge factor in the current fuss (ask any Muslim!), and…WHAT Dutch tradition of tolerance is the author talking about? Whatever it once was — long, long ago — I don’t see Holland as tolerant today; it looks prejudiced, biased, and cowardly. What has the country done in the last few years to uphold Liberty?? Its crimes against Enlightenment values are notorious; those laws limiting freedom of speech are putrid absurdities…sheesh, it’s illegal to insult God or royalty….how much more medieval, superstitious and servile can you get?? What a disgrace. It’s a mockery of human rights. Shame!
Hi, there is an online petition for Geert Wilders. Please pass it around and also he is taking donations at his website.
http://www.petitiononline.com/wilders/petition.html
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103
Why are violent thugs of the muslim or leftist persuation not prosecuted under the blasphemy/heresy laws being used against Weeders? How can 53% of a civilized society support nailing Weeders instead of nailing the nazis attacking him? Sadly, the majority of Dutch believe in appeasement of evil, and will lethally attack anyone opposing appeasement of evil. Appeasement of evil inevitably forces collaboration with evil, and collaboration inevitably results in the appeaser doing the killing for the thugs.
Mohammed says, “This imaginary fight Americans like you have picked up…”
Do you remember:
Munich Massacre 1972?
Hijhack of the Achille Lauro 1985?
Marine Barracks in Lebanon? 1983?
The World Trade Center 1993?
Khobar Towers 1996?
Nairobi 1998?
East Timor 1999?
USS Cole 2000?
All predate Bush.
Certainly NOT in our imagination. There are many who remember and are aware of the murderous scum.
My sympathy is with the Dutch what used to be the greatest country in Europe is now on its way to Africa, if the Muslims could say that we invented, ah, something, or one Muslim country was liberal, cut off his hands, stone that women to death, kill you sister/brother and go tell your friends,and rejoice. Will Amstel/Hineken survive?
If Wilders is convicted of anything, there will be a very, very, serious split in Holland. In fact, it could spell the end of Dutch “tolerance” for Muslims. This almost happened with the murder of Theo van Gogh, but it will certainly happen if Muslim thugs manage to have a Dutch citizen imprisoned for simply voicing an opinion. I’m not saying that they’re headed for a civil war, but there will be massive civil unrest if this man is put in prison. The conservative Dutch will not let this stand unchallenged.
Even in what should be a sympathetic article, we see the complete absorption of cowardice by the media. The author claims Wilders is wrong far more often than he’s right, offering absolutely no evidence for this claim. Why does he toss this statement in at the end? Simple fear and cowardice. He doesn’t want to be killed in the street like Van Gough, so he tosses in this obligatory “Oh, I don’t agree with this nutcase, mind you…”
The Dutch are completely screwed. They’ve given over everything, even if some of them don’t realize it yet. How they could stand up against Hitler and then fall prey to Islamist fanatics is beyond me. Pitiful.
The Dutch are pussies and will do whatever they are told by the muslims.
Wilders IS yelling “FIRE” in a crowded theatre.
However, metaphorically, the theatre IS ON FIRE.
What those people who love to use that example are never willing to admit is that there are times that it is not only legal, but mandatory to yell “FIRE” in that theater. That is of course when the theater really is on fire, and by keeping silent, many lives would be lost.
And if the West is not willing to stand up to protect our own culture from the raging inferno that is the Islamic jihad, then millions of lives will eventually be lost. At some time in the next two generations, we will have to take a stand against Muslim expansion, and the confrontation will be brutal. A goodly percent of the world’s population may die in that conflict, but Muslims could care less as long as they win. To my knowledge, theirs is the only “religion” that tells its brain-dead followers that dying is wonderful, especially when you can blow up a few infidel children with you.
We are not yet willing to face reality about the implacable, monstrous so-called Religion of Peace yet. But we had better wake up soon or we will lose without a fight.
To mohammed in post #34, you sir are a liar. You are using your wonderful religion’s “taqqiyah”, that specifically orders you to lie to infidels. It would make absolutely no difference in the level of violence that your co-religionists would perpetrate if you could have all the Jews killed outright. That would still leave the other 99.9% of the infidels like Christians and Hindus and atheists that you would still need to kill next, right?
I say this to you and your compatriots – Allah is a monster.
Mohamemd: It is you that is “baying”. It is all you know how to do.
How typical of you to invert the truth. Criticism of Muslims in prohibited and you claim that criticism of the jews is the issue.
What a dishonest person you are. But them you are a Muslim, and they always lie.
Their “religion” is a lie. It is really just an ideological cover for thieves, murders and liars.
Which of these are you?
I give a thumb-down for this article. It’s not really a balanced one and the author is being very pretentious on the subject. He needs to realize that Wilders is not the problem nor the symptom to the crime of insulting a religion/God/people, quite the contrary, Wilders is highlighting the real problems from Islam and the failure of the Western governments from recognizing that glaring problems. Wilders is doing something right that has nothing to do with his association with the far-right elements: he saw the coming dangers to free speech and the right to dissent and he choose to act on it before it may come too late.
Someone here posted something that’s perfectly correct to describe the failure: white liberal guilt. I think that applied to the author as well.
You should all judge Fitna for yourselves. The only place I can still find it is on Fausta’s Blog page three.
38. newguy40:
Mohammed says, “This imaginary fight Americans like you have picked up…”
Do you remember:
Munich Massacre 1972?
Hijhack of the Achille Lauro 1985?
Marine Barracks in Lebanon? 1983?
The World Trade Center 1993?
Khobar Towers 1996?
Nairobi 1998?
East Timor 1999?
USS Cole 2000?
All predate Bush.
Certainly NOT in our imagination. There are many who remember and are aware of the murderous scum.
The list is much longer than this. Don’t forget Carters 444days and we can go back to Jefferson and the Barbary pirots. Read the Koran and Hadeths. Muslims are tought to hate others and demand submittion. Islam is devoid of the simplest ethics and morality.
Wow, how enlightened of them!
Quick everyone, let’s be more like Europe!
The demographic shift in Europe and Russia is at least 7:1 in favor of the Muslims. Europe in those terms of population reproduction is degenerate.
The world Muslim population is about 800,000,000 of which 10% ascribe to the radical form of Jihadism. That is only 80 million potential suicide bombers.
When Osama left Yemen he left this inscription:
1.Purify the religion
2.Liberate the Holy Lands from the Infidels
3.Expand
If I were a Muslim, I would worry about the success of that purification.
The prosecution of Wilders should be seen as part of the erosion of democracy in Europe that began in the 60s with the invitation of “guest workers” from Muslim countries. These “guests” have not always behaved well, refusing to be assimilated and, as they have grown in numbers, attempting to impose their own world view on the West. Why should we be surprised? This behavior, and the current prosecution of Wilders must be viewed in light of Islam’s history of incursion into other countries and cultures — and also of Europe’s pusillanimous history of compromise and appeasement in the face of aggression. Does anyone remember Neville Chamberlain, the Munich Agreement, and “Peace in our Time?” And have we already forgotten the debacle of the Danish cartoons in 2005, when “progressive” Westerners fell all over themselves in haste to abandon the cherished principle of free speech in order to placate outraged and violent Muslims?
From its inception, Islam has been an imperialist and colonial force in the world. The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism — “the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries.” Just look at a world map and see how Islam has spread, through bloody conquest, since the 7th century. Islam started as an eminently warrior religion, and so it continues today. What do you not understand about the phrase, “Death to the Infidel”? One way to kill the infidel is to strangle his voice! If we wish to survive, we don’t have to agree with Wilders; we only have to defend his right to express opinions with which we do not agree.
With the Netherlands allowing its tradition of tolerance to be hijacked by Muslims and social engineers, we probably don’t even need to worry about an unstable Pakistan with nuclear arms, an anti-Western Iran on the brink of nuclear armament, or a world that really thinks the battle over the tiny patch of land known as Israel is just that, and not part of a pan-Islamist agenda that we will all have face very soon. We’ll simply cave in. Sharia here we come!
Newguy and Erik-Good work. Looks like a head shot from here. The Barbary Pirate episode was the first foreign deployment of American power in our history, from whence the line “to the shores of Tripoli.” They believed Allah wanted them to raid commerce because the rest of the world were infidels and deserved to be plundered and killed. Now we have muslim pirates off Somolia 200 years later. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
A word to the Finns. They will not be recruited in 3 to 5 years. They are there now, and you just lost the opening battle. Keep it up and you”ll wish the Russians were back.
The prosecution completely validates Wilders. The Netherlands is now dancing to the tune of a religion that proscribes apostasy. On that account alone Islam should be criticized: not to mention the daily attacks being carried out world wide in the name of this religion
And how do Wilders’ Dutch critics respond? With sophistry, to wit:
—
“My problem is that I think that the argument of Islam being inherently violent is not convincing. They take some verses that are very vicious yes. Want vicious?
“And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
“Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.”
Both these gems, as you can imagine, are from the Bible. Yet somehow Christians and Jews are not ordinarily associated with unspeakable violence of that nature. As a nonbeliever, much more important than what your holy text SAYS is how your faithful ACT.”
—
This film reviewer describes herself as a non believer, but she is in fact a non-thinker or she would know that no place on God’s green earth today are Christians and Jews killing people for adultery. This isolated passage, however, is enough for her to proclaim cultural equivalence.
Fury? What are the Dutch going to do? Throw a tulip at the Muslims? Europe deserves to die for its refusal to defend itself.
back in the 17th century, the Dutch welcomed a group of Protestant dissidents from England, who then eventually made their way to Plymouth Rock in Massachussetts.
How far they have descended.
Oh, may I also mention that Dutch doctors are at the forefront in killing inconvenient toddlers and old people?
I found fitna for you, please view and comment.http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3130
While in Holland in July 1986, I marched 125 miles in 4 days, as part of a US Army team. Even this many years after World War II, Americans were heroes for liberating the Dutch from Nazi occupation. In less than 25 years, the Dutch have suddenly lost their love of liberty and are willingly genuflecting before the altar of Islamomania. Free speech is in the toilet, which means the Western legal tradition cannot be that far behind. The ugly specter of Sharia and Islamofascism is flooding across Europe and America, courtesy of uninformed politically-correct nitwits. Islam’s bloody history is quietly swept under the rug or, in the case at hand, when held up to the light of day, the one(s) with such temerity are prosecuted. In our own country, the new president has just sold us out on Arab TV. Frankly, Barack Obama is the “enemy” of the American people
The author states “the country is deeply divided along ideological and cultural lines.” The same is true in the U.S. and probably most of the western world. Something has got to give, and I fear it will be a leftist/socialist/marist takeover unless we are prepared to stand up to it. I personally am in favor of secession.
Duane, USA, I see the same thing. Secession has played out in my mind also. Never thought I would ever consider this in my life.
Why is Wilders being martyred by some of his own people?
I would have expected that all Western governments would have naturally adopted the stance of this brave and righteous brother a long time ago.
I sure hope a VERY LARGE contingent of true Dutchmen (Christians, Jews and Atheists alike) will come out in support of this champion of Western values.
Only the most foolish would martyr the bravest of their own people for rightly sounding the alarm and educating the people about a threat to their way of life.
I’m hoping Wilders turns it into a show trial to demonstrate that he is correct about Islam
The author’s unsupported assertion “Wilders is more often wrong than right” is rather offensive.
It reads, to my eye, like an apology and a wish to distance himself personally from Wilders.
What is it exactly that Wilders is supposed to be wrong about so much of the time????
Everything I’ve read from Wilders or interviews with him has seemed perfectly reasonable.
I’ve seen Fitna. It was well thought out and gracefully put together.
If anything Fitna leans a bit toward the dryly factual. “Here’s what the mohammedan book says. Here’s what the believers say in public. Here’s what the believers do.“.
It’s not real complicated.
So what is it that Wilders is so wrong about?
Wilders petition online;
http://www.petitiononline.com/wilders/petition.html
Give the guy a hand and sign the petition. There are an awful lot of signatures already.
For 56, 57, 58
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/
pass it around…
The Wilders case in Hooland shows, time and again, that Lawfare is an effective form of Unconventional Warfare.
Nothing new here.
Hirsi Alli was a member of the Dutch parliment and ultimately forced out of it and the country. Why? She wrote a book about growing up as an islamic woman and what it meant. Some supported her right to speak. Many more resented her disruption of their pacific ignorance of the tidal wave of immigration generated change. As one author put it, the Dutch finally found one citizen with an islamic background that they wnated to deport.
Even plucky Denmark cautions women there to be aware that how they dress–yes how they dress–can cause “youths” from other countries to react badly. So Danes diminish the freedoms they’d taken for granted so the “youths” won’t attack them.
The multiculturalists just forgot the lessons of 2000 years of recorded history–that not every body welcomes tolerance and free expression. That the cultures that do ARE superior. The ones that don’t are ignored at your own risk.
Gary Ogletree:
“I trust the Dutch to come to their senses eventually, maybe too late to keep Wilders out jail,…”
I think Wilders is already in jail. He can’t move around because of the jihadists’ threats against him and his family. Ergo it is better for Wilders to actually go to jail, hopefully, as a wake up call to the West that their so-called rights can be easily taken away.
America’s Constitutional rights including Freedom of Speech and Property rights can also be easily erased. E.g the Kelo decision, that if a private party paid enough to enough politicians, they can take whatever they want from another citizen. We only need five right thinking Justices in the Supreme Court to deny our rights. Right thinking justice such as Breyer who believes “international law” should trump our Constitution. If the UN General Assembly decided in a majority to limit our Freedom of Speech, if Obama signed onto the decision, and nominated a right-thinking Justice, we can just kiss our Freedom of Speech good bye.
No surprise. Just as Eurabia and Londonistan have fallen prey to the policies of Immigration, so has the Netherlands now become Homeland to Immigrants from the Dutch East Indies. Well remembered is the true story of the Dutch Journalist who returned to Holland after being away for ten years and wept “Where is my home?”……
Sylvie
I don’t think it is so simple. Eurabia and Londonistan had many immigrants, that’s true, but all alone immigrants would not change policy of these countries so diametrically.
You are forgetting that after oil embargo the price of oil went up and up. Majority of rulers benefiting from that increase invested their money in western economies, in factories, in banks, in hotels. They also “invested” in universities, in academia teaching students Arabic language and culture. One of the first country oil sheiks invested in was UK and some of the EU states. That way they not only got a say in decision making of the countries they invested in but they got say in what is taught at the universities. They also got say in who is leading prayers in the mosques as they built majority of mosques in the countries of EU . Sounds familiar? it should. The same policy is making inroads in US and Canada as well as in former socialist countries of Europe (Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic etc).
So you had on one hand a increasingly more populous and more militant Muslim immigrants and on the other hand you had many people in academia, in businesses and in politics who increasingly supported agenda of oil countries (knowingly or unknowingly).
To put it all together:
The politicians wants votes – and the younger voters are increasingly of muslim religion and increasingly under the influence of muslim brotherhood, ME television and radical preachers.
The businessmen want business – and many of decidents are sheiks from saudi arabia or emirates
The academia people (orientalists) want money for their projects- and they are getting money from rich ME people, but the money come with strings.
And finally the euuropeans remember oil embargo, they are afraid that their houses will get cold with little or no electricity, and their movement will be constricted with little or no gasoline.
So they are caving in.
Don’t forget that when you say 53% of Dutch, there are more than a few Muslims among them.
I guess it is too late. Dutch society is committing suicide. Insanity.
Australia is next. I spoke to a Socialist Alliance supporter marching against Israel and inquired about the nature of their Islamist allies and the incongruity of a supposedly atheist organisation making common cause with aspiring theocrats. He justified their alliance by saying that Islam was the only global power taking the fight to America, and that Islam is more progressive than it is given credit for. He then concluded by saying that he probably wouldn’t convert because he didn’t like the idea of praying five times a day, though that could change if Western/Australian oppression continued.
You can view Fitna here.
Fitna simply juxtaposes quotes from the Qur’an and quotes from radical Islamists like Osama Bin Laden with images of Islamist terrorism.
Like it or not, these quotes are from the Qur’an and these Muslims do interpret the Qur’an to support their widespread acts of terrorism. It is not Wilders who is insulting Islam, but its adherents.
I watched Fitna and I still don’t understand how Geert Wilders could be accused of hate speech – he merely displayed passages from the Koran, inserted actual footage of mullahs and imams spouting racial and cultural hatred, and then interpolated news clips of islamofascist genocide – 9/11, Madrid bombings, London subway bombings, etc. How is reporting the news considered hate speech?
If this is enought to incite social unrest, shouldn’t AP and other news agencies be held responsible and prosecuted too, for providing stories and footage that show Islam in a bad light? Again, Wilders is simply relaying AP news stories and footage that has already been broadcast and/or printed.
Incidentally, if the Koran has passages which promote racism and/or incite violent crimes against non-muslims, according to the Dutch law that is being used against Wilders, shouldn’t this text be banned in accordance to that law? Shouldn’t any mullah that promotes this text within the boundaries of the Netherlands also be prosecuted for the same “crime,” that Wilders is accused of. He merely reprinted scripture in the frames of the film.
That this “trial” should happen in a modern Western nation is almost unfathomable. So this is what it felt like to live in the middle ages. Galileo, we have failed.
Best wishes Mr. Wilders – much of European free speech rests on the outcome of your situation.
Rowland, you are right.
Some brave soul in Holland needs to start bringing suits against Muslims who are spewing the original “hate speech in rallies and mosques. Why has this not been done? It should be, if only to illustrate how hypocritically this “law” is being applied.
Behind every dramatic pictorial scene in Wilders’ film is an accurate and correct citation from the Qur’an or ahadith or example of Muhammad. There is nothing slanderous contained therein.
Please note that one of the conditions of the Dhimma is that dhimmis are not permitted to read Islamic scriptures and writings. They are further not allowed to use any of these to criticize Islam.
This is the real crime that Wilders is charged with. He violates the Dhimma, insulting Islam by using its own precepts against it.
“Wilders is more often wrong than right …”
I’d like to see that point argued and substantiated.
Wilders is wrong, imo, when he approvingly invokes the excesses in Enoch Powell’s renown speech. Nonetheless, the general themes he invokes, even when excessive, all resonate when placed on better ground, reframed within better articulations (cf. Mark Steyn). I.e. they are worthy of being more seriously plumbed and explicated, not dismissed out of hand and defaulting to a multi-culti ethos and gloss that – in the face of demographic, ideological, religio-socio-cultural, etc. challenges – is itself not roundly plumbed and defended.
Simply reposing in multi-culti assumptions is not an adequate response, it amounts to nothing more than a sniff and a harrumph.
I repeat the same thing, I know the truth hurts.
34. mohammed:
‘All these arguments point to nothing. If jews or the holocaust cannot be discussed freely then stop baying about freedom of speech. It is the dutch system that decided he should be prosecuted not Saudi Arabia or Iran, that is why you lot are all disappointed. This film he produced passed unnoticed the world over except on right wing nut case media. For those saying that Europe is finished remember that none of them has elected a president with HUSSEIN as his middle name, therefore your focus should be closer home. This imaginary fight Americans like you have picked up with Muslims has done nothing but bring America almost to its knees. At least we know that is what George bush rode to victory on in 2004.’
Whether you accept it or not, THIS FILM PASSED LARGELY UNNOTICED AROUND THE WORLD. America has killed more than any muslim nation ever. Your land was stolen from natives whom you have put in reservations. You are all parasites feeding fat on other people’s property. Today when people try to discuss the holocaust, they are branded anti semitic and put in jail. Dr Irving, Dr Toben ring a bell? The zionist have milked you dry and they will move on and leave you with your problems. Hate does not take people far. The state of your economy is a direct result of a government of hate and revenge.
#21.: yes, my friend, I’m pretty sure of it. The judges in Holland are even ignoring the wishes of the majority to prosecute the most popular member of their congress to please their muslim masters.
Hate does not take people far.
Muslim countries are certainly proof of that Mohammad. They’re filled with hateful people and that’s why they’re filthy ratholes. So the Muslims emigrate and now they’re making filthy ratholes out of other people’s countries.
It’s easy to see why you hate the Jews so much. The Jews are productive and hard-working and successful. If they disappeared from Israel tomorrow and the Palis took over, pretty soon it would just be another poor, brutal, failed Muslim country.
Yep, it’s all Obamas fault. You neo-cons crack me up. Dummies.
I don’t like you guys any better than I like the Taliban.
79. P-nut.
If you put us in the same category as the Taliban, you won’t mind when they come to your neighborhood, I guess.
You have illustrated perfectly why Obama’s foolishness is to be feared.
A new dark age is settling over Europe, it will mean the total elimination of anyone or any idea that is regarded as Anti-Islamic. Hitler thought the New Reich would last at least a thousand years. He was wrong because the USA and Russia saved the Europeans. This new peaceful demographic takeover will not be prevented by the US and Russia. The Europeans need to stand-up for themselves and deport this hateful ideology back to the lands from which it came or accept their loss of all freedoms.
I think that the Dutch “protesteth too much”. If you examine the character of some of these Dutch “defenders of liberty” you will find lives, not to mention a national culture, rife with deviancy and not even the shell of the Christian nation it was once. Remember that those hallowed freedoms (like life, liberty, freedom of speech) developed in nations steeped in religious tradition…sober enough not to confuse freedom and license. I am convinced that traditional Muslims would feel 1/10th the animousity toward the west if we were still believers and had not so distanced faith from our cultures.
76. mohammed: America has killed more than any muslim nation ever.
I highly doubt that in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if the US didn’t even make top 10 for most muslims killed by a country… egypt, iran, iraq, israel, pakistan, india all have likely killed way more muslims then the US…
’78. Donna V.:
Hate does not take people far.
Muslim countries are certainly proof of that Mohammad. They’re filled with hateful people and that’s why they’re filthy ratholes. So the Muslims emigrate and now they’re making filthy ratholes out of other people’s countries.’
It’s easy to see why you hate the Jews so much. The Jews are productive and hard-working and successful.’
What you are trying to say is that there is no price to pay not be lorded over by a foreigner. Well I prefer to be in my own rathole than to be lorded over by some American. And about the jews being hard working, no one has anything against that donna, good for you if they are working hard for you but the Palestinians can never accept them as an occupier, in the same way that America is leaving Iraq with its tail behind its legs, the same way America was whooped out of Somalia and Vietnam, will be the same way Israel shall leave the occupied lands.
You think your development signifies some genius success, anyone can achieve that if they have the level of credit that you have. I guess some jewish geniuses are still busy at work trying to enrich your life with debt.
Why isn’t the Dutch government prosecuting the Muslims of the Netherlands who call for the death of non-Muslims in the streets, and advocate overthrowing the governments? There is no place for hypocritical
double-standards in Law
Since I was censored, let me rephrase my last statement. May I kindly draw everyone’s attention to the following hyperlinks.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=61e4419385
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=037_1211451213
I hope this meets with everyone’s approval.
Why cant we all live in peace? All this mixing of people, will lead to a war that will make Bosnia look like a garden party.
Muslims should live in Muslim countries, Christians in Chistian countries, etc. That way we know where we are with each other. Minarets and mezzuen calls will not offend non-Muslims, church bells will not offend Muslims. Halal slaughter will not offend those who care about the humane treatment of animals, and bacon sandwiches will not offend Muslims. And so on.
We can live in relative peace in a imperfect world, provided we dont get up each others noses.
#22 Anonymous – Yes, they do prosecute anti-semitism in Germany and Austria. Rather, they prosecute Holocaust deniers. They have to. We made that a condition of their freedom after we conquered them. I stand by that decision.
Fitna is also available at the excellent Jihadwatch.org site here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020472.php
Lot more on this site also about the issue and how to support Wilders’ fight against this travesty of “justice”…..
There’s an article in yesterday’s International Herald Tribune by one Ian Buruma which is a rather tendentious bit of dhimmie twaddle. I’ve written a letter to the editor, though I’m not holding my breath, as they seem to favour Islamopologia, but still may be worth wise heads on this forum also sending something to the editors at letters@iht.com. The more we get to them, the more they have to take notice.
“Insult to free speech” is here:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/29/opinion/edbaruma.1-418385.php
.
FREE Partij voor de Vrijheid! The Koran shouldn’t be banned. Mein Kampf isn’t a ‘Holy Book’, but it shouldn’t be banned either, but you should be able to criticize it and the idiots who agree with it.
As many sane people know, Geert Wilders is NO racist. He is simply against out-of-control immigration; and against immigrants who won’t assimilate; and the ones who beat Gays and rape non-Muslim women for not being covered up. He is also very much against the ones who kill their own daughters and sisters for their ‘family honor’.
.
absurd thought –
God of the Universe says
don’t criticize religions
just use Christian words
substitute for Islam’s words
.
here’s an absurd thought -
your Supreme God knew
Jesus as a pedophile
and a raping terrorist
converting slaves by the sword
.
Muslims are not a ‘race’ anyway, they are followers of a religion/ideology and its Sharia Law. Most Muslims aren’t even Arabs, which by the way, is also not a ‘Race’.
But their duty is, according to their Koran, to spread Sharia law over the whole Earth. It might take 100-200 years, if they succeed.
Is that the kind of world we want for our great-grand childrens’ great-grand children? A Taliban Planet? I bet not. Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam. Wilders is NOT against Muslims, he is against Islamic Fundamentalism.
We all should read the Koran, but be careful, for the Koran prohibits non-Muslims from reading it. I wonder why.
This is BIG, this is REAL BIG! SPREAD THE WORD to the world everyone! The EU Mandarins have crossed the line! If this goes to court, how much more of the public will become aware of this tyranny?
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. If there is no freedom of speech, then there can be no real freedom.
The Christians and Jews don’t riot when somebody makes fun of Christ or Jews. People must learn to be civilized, and held to account when they are not. Muslims included.
Geert Wilders is a hero spreading the painful truth. He MUST be protected!
.
here’s an absurd thought -
your Supreme God says
Christians are a race
who love the Jewish race
and the peaceful Buddhist race
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe wants
Sharia Law for ALL
submit to glorious life
slavery and servitude
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
outlaw self-defense
exposing violent crimes
shall be deemed hate speech
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
decide to change your race
just simply change religions
your religion is your race
.
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
.
.
84 mohmammed :
“in the same way that America is leaving Iraq with its tail behind its legs, the same way America was whooped out of Somalia and Vietnam, will be the same way Israel shall leave the occupied lands.”
In all those examples, the exodus was not due to being “whooped out”, it was due to pussy Democrats not having the stomach to do what needed to be done. Had we decided to win, we would have won.
However, the Israeli’s are fortunate to have far better leaders than ours.
Yes, they have to play the political/PR game now, but when they are out of choices they will incinerate Gaza, the West Bank, Tehran, Damascus, Mecca, et al.
Typical government BS. So Islamic extremists can say and publish whatever they like, and Why? Because they are members of an organized religion, and I use the term religion loosely. It seems to me that Geert Wilders is a prophet and we should start our own religion because we face the very real threat of assimilation by Muslim extremists. Does this sound familiar? I don’t care what religion you belong to, anyone that advocates violence, intolerance, and domination by force should not be allowed to emigrate ANYWHERE. Sorry, this is the best I could do without swearing..
P-Nt: so conservative are equivalent to radical muslims,eh does P-nut refer to the size of your brain?
Stop talking, start acting
Isn’t your freedom worth a stamp???
If Geert Wilders falls, then Freedom of speech is dead in Europe. We are launching an extensive International Action SITA including two possible texts ; one comparing Wilders and Winston Churchill and another Wilders and Charlie Chaplin:
http://sitamnesty.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/i-support-democrat-geert-winston-wilders-against-islamic-fascism-and-its-dhimmis (Winston Eng)
http://sitamnesty.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/i-support-democrat-geert-charlie-wilders-against-islamic-fascism (Charlie Eng)
To support Geert Wilders and our dearly acquired freedoms please participate to the 2 suggested actions and transmit this message to your friends owners of a website in order they publish it.
An other way to support Geert Wilders is to give some money. To donate: http://www.geertwilders.nl
asdf wrote:
“Where is the prosecution of those savages that threaten to kill the unbelievers? Just insanity!!”
You can’t prosecute someone who atomized themselves with an explosive belt.
You can’t prosecute someone who participates in a group that advocates atomizing themselves with an explosive belt, because that might be “profiling.”
You can’t prosecute someone who supports those who participate in groups that advocate atomizing themselves with explosive belts, because that might be “persecution.”
“PC” = death, in Europe and soon, North America.
Mongoose: So by your logic, the infestation of repressionist Islam in Holland is the result of Holland’s social freedom, or as you choose to call it “licentuousness”. I see. Their social freedom and independence from religious dogma is responsible for the growing influence of religious dogma? Nice try.
When u insult black people, They call it “Racism”,
When u insult Holocaust, They call it “Anti-semetism”,
When u insult Women, They call it “Gender discrimination”,
When u insult Homosexuality, Thy call it “Intolerance”,
When u insult your Country, Thy call it “Treason”,
When u insult a Religious sect, they call it “Hate speech”,
But when insult Islam, They call it ” Freedom of Expression”…..