Why Would a Woman Convert to Islam?
Very recently Tony Blair’s sister-in-law, journalist Lauren Booth, embraced the faith after what she described as a “holy experience” in Iran. Based on what Ayaan Hirsi Ali has described as the brutal, totalistic character of Islam, one is obliged to ask why any modern career woman would opt for conversion to the Muslim religion.
After all, as so many autobiographies of Muslim women note, the religion bans anything that is fun (“haram,” or forbidden). No chewing of gum, no bicycle riding, no make-up, no eating in public, no painting of nails, no pets, no questions, and of course, no answering back. For many Muslim women, there is an eagerness to assert independence as soon as adulthood is reached.
How then does one explain Lauren Booth? She notes that in the city of Qom “I sat down and felt this shot of spiritual morphine, just absolute bliss and joy.” What precisely was Ms. Booth seeking, and why did she find it in Islam? Although it is difficult to generalize, I suspect that the convert is in a search for meaning in societies where the “anything goes,” permissive attitude of the moment proves to be a superficial void. Islam is totalistic; modernity, with all its freedom, is often vacuous.
One convert cited in the Daily Mail said Islam allows you to reject fads and fashion and “seek a higher goal.” Alas, one of course is free to reject fads without embracing Islam. But it is comforting — I guess — to have one’s life ordered by the ritual impulse of a totalistic religion. As another convert pointed out: “It makes life purer.” But does it?
By and large, Islam devolves into extremism, the repression of women, inequality, and brutality such as the stoning of adulterers. Converts, however, refer to the celebration of old-fashioned family values and hospitality, values which have been eroded in the West. For many, Islam is an escape route from the cultural degradation of Western society.
But what converts often confuse is culture and religion. The warmth a family confers is not the same as the demands of religious obedience.
Women in the West may deplore the pressure to act like men by drinking to excess and engaging in casual sex. But despite the pressure, one is free to make choices, a condition Islam rejects. However, it is precisely being the prisoner of action that appeals to many women. They don’t have to choose; the religion does it for them. It is the escape route from their vision of a broken society.
While it is easy to appreciate the search for meaning in societies that are culturally barren, the conversion to Islam is comparable to the move from anarchy to totalitarianism. In the 1920s and 1930s, Germany adopted the free and easy moral stance of the Weimar Republic. Life was “a bowl of cherries, don’t take it serious, it’s too mysterious.” The breakdown of moral order led to a period in which people sought stability in the form of Nazi dictatorship.
In a similar way, the moral dissolution of the West has many seeking an axis on which to rely — moral compass points. It may well be that the poles in this compass are static and harsh, but at least the limits of behavior are defined. Some poor souls unable “to find themselves” seek refuge in self-selected slavery. They are prisoners of their own vision. The West they see is morally bankrupt; Islam may be violent and harsh, but it does prescribe moral parameters.
Of course, the question that remains is why Christianity doesn’t provide the moral guidelines so many women are seeking. As I see it, Christianity’s unwillingness to assert the limits of behavior — a loss of confidence, if you will — has given Islam the upper hand with women who are suggestible and vulnerable to propaganda. Some might contend these converts have gone from the frying pan into the fire, but as they see it, Islam has offered meaning in lives without it and has provided strictures for lives that have only known license.
Nah. It’s just that some folks will do anything for their 15 min or fame ( or approval).
Just wait until she gets bored and tries to move on to her next fad. Now THAT will be the moment of revelation.
That’s right. Let’s wait a short while for time to confirm to us the sincerity of her conversion, the ferventness of her faith, the permanence of her devotion, and the amount of money she makes from her little dance into celebrity, so typical of the old-world English penchant for eccentricity.
bingo…money.
15 min of attention…She will be a star for recruitment. She is a farce…you join a religion, then read the writings?\ wow..page 60..most people study a religion, then decide to join..but she got shot of spiritual morphine, bull..good thing she wasn’t in disneyland when it hit. She and chris matthews must be realated.
She has no actual experience of being with , living among ,real muslim women that dont’ live a luxury life. How about being with the ones that struggle daily with being downtrodden, mistreated, young girls given in marriage to old men,beating, stoning. Throw off the silk trappings and get real.
You’ve got to get away from this idea that people do these extreme things for money or notoriety. People rob banks in spite of the chance they’ll be imprisoned — not to get into jail. Mohammedanism is more than imprisonment: for women it is slavery, and with a cruel master at that. For those born into Mohammedanism — too bad! But for those choosing to submit themselves to that servitude, obviously, mental illness is involved. The only European peoples to adopt Mohammedanism are some of those in the Balkans who were coerced into conversion under the swinish Ottomans. And, at that, most of the Serbs, Croats, Montenegrans, Greeks, and other captive peoples did resist, under threat of death. This is why all Christians should shun and despise the Albanians, who are the only Europeans to cravenly submit to Mohammedanism. Also why the US will live in history as cowardly and stupid for waging war on our Christian brothers in Kosovo and Bosnia on the side of our (meaning European Christians, of course) blood-enemies, the Mohammedans.
Having read about this woman in a British newspaper, I think there are a couple of important points missing from this article;
1 – She says that Islam helped her quit drinking. Plenty of people have a hard time with alcohol, and many have tried religion as a means of dealing with it.
2 – She may have become a Muslim, but I see no indication that she plans on marrying one. I suspect that being a female Muslim can be fairly pleasant, as long as none of your male relatives is Muslim. Being a slave is not really a problem, if you don’t have a master.
Good second point. Probably, key here.
Well, lets look at what people and history has to offer on this subject:
What Islam Isn’t By Dr. Peter Hammond
http://tinyurl.com/62dxdg
Islam: The Religion of Peace ( And A Whole Bunch of Dead Bodies) http://bit.ly/cY94uX
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Former Muslim Speaks Out http://tinyurl.com/25tztmy
“Islamism is not a movement to be engaged, it is an enemy to be defeated.” http://tinyurl.com/259btrn
A WHIFF OF TREACHERY
——————–
Very interesting comments on Booth’s conversion to Islam. There’s no ONE reason for Booth’s action of course…it’s a combination of events that led her down this dark path.
To add to the commentary:
1. Almost to a man, converts to Islam (or Buddhism etc) that I’ve known generally fit into the category of “losers” of one stripe or another. They’re either marginalized members of their native societies for one reason or another, exhibit a pathology of extreme narscissim or similar personality disorder and are generally unbelievably annoying bores. Asses, in the British sense of that word.
Very often, they’re living under the shadow of a “strong” personality somewhere in their extended family. Booth seems to fall under this last category, at least, what with her famous brother in law.
2. Not a single convert I’ve come across (and I’ve come across dozens. I live in the Middle East, after all), has convinced me of the sincerity of his belief or shown any but the most superficial knowledge of Islam.
They’re like robots (or puppets). Not a one is proficient in Arabic (a sine qua non, in my opinion, especially if you’re a convert) nor do they evince the slightest interest in learning that impossible language beyond your basic “salaam”.
Women in particular, but also men, are enchanted by all those flowing robes and headgear that nearly totally covers them up. For them, it’s like perpetually living in the Land of Oz or a never-ending Halloween. It’s make-believe heavy. It’s also Islam-lite. It’s also morbidly pathological.
3. It’s real hard for me to envision a mature modern Westerner, waking up one day and suddenly deciding to “convert”, especially to Islam. I mean, what, did they suddenly see some kinda “light” or hear a message and decide to fall on their hands and knees and swear allegiance to the Saracen imposter just like that? It smacks of hypocrisy to the nth degree.
It’s also very easy to “be a Moslem” in the West. Living in the East for them is quite a different matter as they well know or come to know.
It’s an attention getting scheme almost always. Just convert and Shazam ! you’re suddenly the “center of attention” in your societal circles. To me, it appears that someone converts when he suddenly realizes that he’ll never really amount to anything under his own power. It’s a total sham.
Finally, you’ll be happy to know that Western converts to Islam living in the Middle East are almost universally held in utter contempt by the natives, an attitude I wholeheartedly applaud and encourage.
Best. Post. Ever!
You might consider the effect on individuals of a profound hatred and disgust with the culture and society they were born into — especially as it strays and decays ever futher away from historical human norms. I keep thinking of a young man from California captured in Afghanistan years ago (right after the overthrow of the Taliban) who had converted and was working for the terrorists. Turned out his father had divorced his mother when he was a teenager and then come out as “gay”. I can understand that person’s attraction to Islam and how he might end up becoming an extremist, thinking he was fighting against all the Western social forces that had destroyed his family and any possibility pf self-respect. Of course he overlooked the possibility that just because things were bad on one side of a fight they might be still worse on the other.
Oceanic feelings engulf the normal nervous system regularly. These feelings are particularly evident when internal and external stimuli meld together to produce the sensation of union with our environment.
Unfortunately, these powerful emotions fool us into doing really stupid things. Victor Frankl, a Viennese psychiatrist, attended a rally at which Hitler spoke and, though he came to oppose Hitler, he wound up shrieking “Heil Hitler” and saluting the charismatic figure just as loudly as everyone around him. It scared the hell out of him. Unfortunately, Lauren Booth interpreted her feelings by “submitting” to them, rather than examining them. We all suffer from failing to place our emotional reactions in the dock and under the microscope for more careful study. We will suffer from that foible in the future as we have done in the past. It must be the same emotional rush among the lemmings that pushes them to commit suicide.
Lemmings have gotten a bad rap. Women? Still a mystery to me as to why they do anything.
http://animal.discovery.com/tv/a-list/creature-countdowns/myths/myths-01.html
Excellent point on Viktor Frankl, “MAN’S SEARCH FOR MEANING” can be a life-changing book. He endured a concentration camp and emerged with an entirely new way of looking at the world.
It’s especially helpful if you find yourself struggling with addiction or depression.
“When we are no longer able to change a situation… we are challenged to change ourselves.”
Why would a woman convert to ANY outmoded, patriarchal religion?
I don’t see a heck of a lot for women in catholicism either.
maybe the burka makes her as$ look small.
Actually, you’ve nailed it, Bill! Because of her “accident of birth”, she’s been given special attention & privileges. But she’s not outstanding in any way. She’s fat, she’s not pretty, and she’s basically unappealing to men.
So she gave up. Western Competition by other women is tough. Physical beauty takes A LOT of work…perfect make-up & hair…frequent exercise & disciplined diet…wit & charm…attributes she never attained.
Now she feels free to “Be herself” without the constant battle to compete.
Of course this “cover-up” won’t work either. Once a loser, always a loser!
You twit. Try googling first:
http://www.google.com.au/images?q=Lauren+Booth
Actually, she’s fairly attractive. In any case, all you’ve done is trotted out an old standard about women’s-libbers and lesbians. It’s offensive to pretty much everyone who turns their brains on once a day – men AND women.
I personally find most religious epiphanies questionable. My favorite eye-roller is cat steven’s B.S. about praying to be saved from a rip and keeping his promise to god (it’s all about him, isn’t it?). Tony blair’s switch to the catholic church might have made practical sense, but I’d have been a bit more impressed if he HADN’T booked the pope for his personal confirmation – again, it’s all about him.
We have our own celebrity convert here in aus – susan carland. She’s very attractive (since it seems to matter), and married to a fairly prominent muslim spokesperson. I don’t much care one way or the other about their faith, but by golly it’s funny to see the pundits get worked up about it.
This sort of us-and-them mindset really WAS what drove the inquisitions, you know.
actually the inquisition was driven by people like Stalin/Hitler/Pelosi/Reid/Obama. not any different than Mo and his religion of peace.
just becuase they claimed to be speaking for god doesn’t mean they were.
..during the inquisition the church was the government.
Didn’t have to Google her, Matt baby…I’ve seen her. Several times. (I too have lived & worked in the Middle East.) She’s fat and she’s sloppy.
Don’t like to break your fantasy, but female looks matter. Still! As one who spends at least 2 hours daily preparing for the Competition, I can assure you that appearance (via “work” not “natural beauty”) can make or break a successful career/relationship. I wish it weren’t true…BUT IT IS! The Meghan Kellys of the world will always have the proverbial advantage over the Greta Van Susterens. I’ve accepted the reality.
(Gotta go put on my Retin-A and Spanx.)
“actually the inquisition was driven by people like Stalin/Hitler/Pelosi/Reid/Obama. not any different than Mo and his religion of peace.”
Woah. Maybe you want to think that one through and re-post.
The inquisitions were (almost) all sanctioned by the catholic church in rome.
To say that previous popes weren’t speaking for god … well, that raises a few procedural problems, doesn’t it?
matty did you not see the “church was the government” at the time of the inquisition part of my post. you can’t have it both ways sunny.
you sunny was the one who brought up the inquisition which was an aberration of the church any way one views it yet people like you keep bringing it up as what catholics are like. just because you hate your parents for naming you after one of them instead of naming you Mohammad or Muhammad or other Mo version don’t feel you need to take it out on Christians. it is most unbecoming.
“matty did you not see the “church was the government” at the time of the inquisition part of my post. you can’t have it both ways sunny.”
Two things:
(1) I don’t get the “you can’t have it both ways” thing. Explain that to me. What am I trying to have both ways?
(2) No, the church WASN’T the government. It certainly wasn’t the government in spain when isabella went after the jews and stole all their stuff, it wasn’t the government in portugal when the king played catch-up. Both inquisitions operated under the authority of the monarch, but only with the sanction of the church in rome.
“you sunny was the one who brought up the inquisition which was an aberration of the church any way one views it”
If the church didn’t think it was an aberration, then who are you to say otherwise? If the church was actually DOING it, then odds are it really was what the church stood for at the time, whatever you might happen to think 500 years later.
“yet people like you keep bringing it up as what catholics are like.”
Actually, I don’t. I bring it up to demonstrate that no religion is immutable, and belonging to ANY particular religion doesn’t guarantee niceness (or badness). Muzzie-bashers try to claim that there’s something invariable about islam that means they’re uniquely hard-wired for violence and persecution, yet like to ignore that the mainstream religion of the west was once pretty woeful as well. It’s either the same religion or it isn’t – you pick
Matthew, yes, our scholars do note for us how that, “there is something invariable about Islam, which dictates that, very many persons of Islamic-dominated societies are uniquely hard-wired for violence”. That “something” inheres in the deleterious genetic effects of 1st cousin marriages—and for many generations; so that, those nations (and European nations) so afflicted, suffer increasing birth defects, and a significant lowering of the general IQ—but more, that now with plain mental and emotional instability.
And, the power to either, develop or, to respond to humor is primarily a function of intelligence, no wonder then, that, humor and music—with related elements of Western normalcy in mental outlook (such as curiosity and tolerance) are anathema.
Also—as our dear “INQUISITION” mentions, that, by those of nations indigenous to countries of that geographical area, people who have actually grown up under Islam, but now to be crushed by our own “well born” and well-heeled converts, whose fatuous and vain showmanship in conversion to Islam would dash the hopes of so many of those struggling masses, who have been jest a’ yearnin’ to be free, the Western proselyte now living in the Middle East might now finding himself considered to be an object of contempt, is surprising not in the least.
And much to the contrary, I present that, Islam is not a religion at all. In looking at it’s roots, it’s founder, it’s aspirations and real-time effects in the world, greatly contributing to the suffering of so many children and women, who—if they only knew—would be recognized as most unwilling subjects, and in listening to the Islamic man-on-the-street in remark upon the tenor of interactions of Islamic-controlled nations against the rest of mankind, in noticing the profoundly insuperable difficulties put to the individual—thence to those nations—inhering in the deleterious genetic effects of 1st cousin marriages, as in prayer by constraint, in arbitrary executions and mayhem, in enforced duties of women in subservience to Islam, Islam appears rather, as an algorithm operating under mere trappings of religion but in actual service to a necessarily simplistic psychological and criminal paradigm of vast scale and scope which, by focusing on arranging certain aspects of conscience, and man-woman relations into that of an administrative model in subset, proposing to replicate itself, but in global domination through subjugation of the very thought patterns of the individual—though, not for any greater kaleidoscope of realization through creative imagination, not for peace and comity between peoples, not to replace suffering for any appearance of well-being, but—into a wrenching construct of the administrative rank-and-order model which class-structure by constraint, is.
By any of whole mind, those who fail to correctly identify Islam by the simplest logic of taxonomy—by form, by function, and by origin—cannot but be seen as uninspired workmen, who, in the assentation of their banal commentary, actualize themselves as social or political caltrops set to prolong the present day of suffering and isolation—the world round, . . .
For any man of Western birth and culture—a culture which, in this present moment of compromise of morals, appears in various ways to work against acquisition of social skills which are necessary to easily meet and marry—Islam represents a chosen man-to-man power group in an administrative social model which provides easier access to women as “the weaker party” in general, but especially, to younger women (In the YT video “TV Debate on the Marriage of Young Girls in Saudi Arabia”, a certain Imam explains how that, “If you want to marry, and you knock on doors in your neighborhood, yes, one man will say: ‘I have a daughter who is 14 and one who is 16—which would you prefer?”—or some such—just now, I don’t wish to watch the horrid thing, again.).
Then, as to why particular Western women have converted to Islam, in viewing certain YT self-revelations—and, stemming from any woman’s innate apprehension of the practicalities which are necessary to continuance of human life, of the lower classes, several mention their previous distress in but marginal success in negotiating the difficulties of everyday life—one had been a stripper. On this, some of our scholars have remarked on the fact of lack of space and providence for women in Western societies—which, I think, is so (And to this, for but one example, more lately, within their auditoriums, some Churches now provide couches for mothers and children.).
But, for exposition to be properly done, these related topics require greater space and the attentive dissection of some of PJ’s scholars, . . .
Humans are social animals. Humans exist in societies. A society is a group of related individuals pursuing conventional goals by conventional means. Or, societies are maintained and defined by rules. The almost universal form of rules are religious commandments. Religious heresies destroy the society’s rules and fracture that society. Self-preservation, then, is the reason societies always attempt to resolve religious differences. Spain crushed various heresies by the Inquisition, although there were Inquisitions in Italy and other countries also. The Germans were one people, but the split into Protestant north and Catholic Bavaria produced two different societies (as anyone knowledgeable about human behavior would have predicted). I suppose this is a matter of taste, but I’ll take the happy, beer-swilling Bavarians over the tight-ass, money-grubbing Protestants any day. Ditto Papist Ireland and protty-bastard Scotland. If you prefer Cromwell to Charles II, be my frikkin’ guest. The fact remains that, Inquisitors or no, the first proto-totalitarian state was Elizabethan England, not Spain. Same with the definitely-totalitarian Spanish Republic vis-a-vis Franco’s Rightist Spain. Reviewing the history of post-Reformation Europe, I’m with the inquisitors.
How I despise when people make these false comparisons. Catholicism doesn’t teach anyone to kill unbelievers.
Not to mention that if either gender can truthfully be said to run the Church, in the sense of organizing, making things happen, and keeping them running smoothly, it’s women.
Men may have a monopoly on the celebration of the sacraments, but it’s women who are the spine and muscles of the Church in this world.
Agreed. My suburban Catholic parish in NJ has about 5,000 parishioners (that’s my guesstimate; it’s usually framed as “3,000 families”) and roughly a 50/50 split for men and women.
Every year, we have between 15 and 25 people joining the Catholic Church (either completing incomplete Sacraments from a Catholic childhood or coming from other faiths/denominations) in our RCIA program. 3/4 of these people are women, and they certainly don’t feel oppressed by the fact that they’re not allowed to be ordained priests. Many go on to very involved and fulfilling roles as Eucharistic Ministers, musicians, involvement with the parish school, or membership in any one of twenty parish organizations doing community outreach.
Not these days, no.
Its not the comparison of killing someone on the basis of faith. Its the comparison of historically (key word) subjugating women to men’s will.
Why do you get to accuse Catholicism of subjugating women? The Catholic faith holds all peoples as equal. The bible said that a woman should submit to the will of her husband as he is the head of the house, but that does not mean that she is his pawn. She still has a voice in the home and in the world, it just means that when it comes the decision, the husband is the strong voice of the home.
It also says men are to love their wives as christ loves the church-ie nothing comes ahead of their needs but God. I’d say few men manage that, and it’s no doubt far harder than a woman submitting graciously.
Can’t fight extremism with extremism.
I suggest it’s the same reason people convert to Buddhism, ‘yoga,’ Hare Krishna, Scientology, Catholicism, Judaism, etc. – to fill the ‘void,’ to be cool, to rebel …
A recent survey in one of the Scandinavian countries, where a couple decades ago 98 per cent of the population were Lutheran, showed that people leave the state church because they find religion irrelevant in their lives, church tax, and the changes in the church policies, such as accepting homosexuality.
I agree with the writer that Christian churches are becoming politically correct instead of following the teaching of the Bible.
Converting to Islam in the West is like being a communist millionaire. Lauren Booth ought to live as a Muslim a few years in Iran, Yemen, or Afghanistan as an ordinary Muslimah, not working for the Iranian Press TV.
What is wrong with Christianity in these days?
It seems as if Christianity just can’t win. It’s caught in the middle of our culture wars. Half the population seems to think it’s too permissive, the other half thinks it’s too repressive.
Also, we’re intimately familiar with Christianity’s dirty laundry – fraudulent and homosexual TV evangelists, pedophile priests, and of course the ancient witch-burnings and crusades that atheists like to dredge up every time religion is discussed.
I think Islam has done a much better job of covering up and/or rationalizing its own faults and failures. Islam hasn’t beeen through an Enlightenment, a rise of Marxism, nor a Postmodern turn. For its practitioners, it’s not subject to rational enquiry and analysis, social/economic criticism, or deconstruction. There is no relativism and precious little doubt. It’s the right way, the ONLY way to live. It’s RIGHT – everything else is in error. So Islam offers its followers a certainty that Christianity can no longer provide.
In some ways, it’s no surprise that a modern, urban, lefty businesswoman would choose this backward, repressive, yet still morally confident religion. The desire for moral purity is absolutely central to leftism – moral purity at all costs to themselves and society. Islam – as advertised – seems to offer that kind of purity. For some people, it even validates their hatred of our sick, confusing Western culture.
Reading through the comments, I think it’s plainly evident why Christianity wasn’t in the running for Lauren Booth. At least with Islam, she has 57 countries to support her choice, but in the West, converting to Christianity would just be another stripe of dementia or worse, especially since it is so homophobic and such. Of course, no one ever became an athiest just to rebel and get attention, right?
My comment seems to have disappeared. Again, looking over the debate in the comments, of course Lauren Booth would select Islam with 57 countries where her decision would be respected and supported. In the West, if she converted to Christianity, it would just be considered anotehr form of dementia or worse, especially since it is homophobic and such. Of course, no athiest would ever choose athiesm to rebel and get attention, right?
No, the high-profile conversion does not *beg* any question. It raises a question. It’s so simple, and yet people choose this false erudition.
While I agree with you on that, you’ve hit one of my hot buttons. An asterisk on either side of a word doesn’t mean a damned thing. If you want to emphasize a word, there are three methods: italics, bold typeface, or block capitals. Italics would be preferred.
It would help if there were a guide somewhere on this page showing how to italicise (and how to use other html commands).
To italicise, place <i> before the word or phrase, and </i> thereafter.
I know. Sometimes I use shorthand. Be nice if PJM had a slick comment editor.
In English, if italics can’t be used (for whatever reason) then block capitals is the way to go. If you think block capitals gets to be too much, then you’re probably doing too much emphasizing anyway. (A good rule to follow.)
My problem with Internet writing practices and all the cutesy-poo stylings (such as: Making. Every. Word. A. Sentence. For. Emphasis.) is that we already have methods for doing what commenters want to do. All the current trends are being created by people who simply didn’t pay attention in school.
What. If. This. Is. A. Real. Representation. Of. How. I. Talk?
I. Beg. To. Differ.
Do you blink the facts of that which begging a question, is? Something can call forth the previously unspoken question; or, it leaves a question asking for the answer—which do you prefer? And the stars are to show something of that, . . .
I have seen this phenomenon for over thirty years, after my own limited exposure to Islam, and the whole history and culture that surrounds it and is part of it.
You rightly say, in my opinion, that western converts to Islam are looking for something that is missing in the West.
You ask why Christianity does not fill this void. And I have wondered the same. I think it is because the religions of the West (mainly Christianity and Judaism) have been neutered of meaning. One can say I believe in God, or, I believe in Jesus. But do you? The whole belief scenario has been completely compromised in the West. Everyone “knows” that the Bible is actually, mainly myths and legends, and that God is actually a projection of our own wishful thinking, or something like that.
Whereas Islam deals with a religious perspective that is sufficiently significant that some of its adherents have no problem dying for it.
That’s the big difference. It lays claim to certainty, indeed. It’s belief is absolute, with absolute and severe matters being a part of it all, while in fact doing away with the issues that I believe are far important to God, such as forgiveness, mercy, love, meekness, genuine helpfulness, a love of truth.
Established Christianity seems largely have made itself fairly irrelevant with little more belief in the absolute than a moral code based on something or other, and its attempts to attract converts involve compromise with the world rather than statements of what it truly believes. But perhaps I am wrong there, in that it’s beliefs centre around accommodations with the world system?
I realise western science makes belief in supernatural matters rather awkward, but I think that is because we have, so far, not the full scientific data.
Thus as a believer in the Lord Jesus, the question I often ask people whose only belief is in empirical, scientific data we have found thus far, is: Can order occur spontaneously in randomness.
What is the main factor in the Christian church losing prominence in modern time? The allegorizing of Genesis. It is a cancer. Genesis is the foundation, yes, foundation to Biblical Christianity (though, I do not mean spiritually). It absolutely is necessary to accept that God is the author and has not deceived in any way in order for anyone to have enough, literally, circumstantial information to actually believe God did inspire the Bible. That circumstantial information is in Genesis, in which God says, basically, “It’s all mine, and this is what I will reveal as to how it was done”.
I say I am not speaking in the spirit because Jesus Christ is the foundation, but that does not address why Christianity is increasingly watered down and constantly attacked. The Bible must be regarded as a thing Unto Itself, and if it cannot stand upon that feat it cannot be understood for its true ramification. This is true, since it alleges to be “God breathed”. It is not like other messages where we can partake of the wisdom like a buffet, – it is either all true, or not true at all.
The question to ask, therefore, is if we regard that Genesis teaches what it plainly teaches then are there any contradictions in actual testable, repeatable, and observable science? This may seem like a tall task to confirm, but it is not actually necessary to do the logic for millions of questions to find the answer. You can check with ministries like answersingenesis (dot org) that focus on this important issue, and give outstanding, at the very least adequate, information to defend and teach those who believe the Bible according to it’s plain reading. I only say “adequate” because, in my opinion, we all would like the most complete answer to our questions and it just isn’t possible always – concerning the material world.
(Probably the two most notorious questions Creationists face deal with distant star-light, and radiometric-decay dating. Suffice it to say both are answerable, the former being difficult in that it is complex, and the latter, though, seeming to use sufficient science, is, inevitably based on speculation and also still doesn’t prove anything about supposed biological evolution.)
What has happened is the church has accepted the teachings of men to be considered equal to the Scripture (thinking that Science = Truth), and therefore amenable to other truths. Such translation is an equation which says, Scripture = The Natural World, and as we know by algebra we can make deductions and additions so long as we “balance” it in the end. (The “more” correct equation would be Scripture -is greater than, or equal to- The Natural World.)
Man says his science shows the earth is billions of years old, so somehow this must be equated into the Scriptures. However, to begin with, people are not being scrupulous to defend the Scriptures and question such so-called science that cannot be repeated, observed, or tested. (Such ideas of an ancient cosmos became popular before the science got around to “confirming” it – while evidence to the contrary is dismissed or discarded.) The point is that average people are accepting readily that science will interpret reality better, whether they even understand the science (they are trusting men), forgetting that reality is only possible if God orders it and keeps it.
There is a lot of difference between the science that makes a computer work, and the “science” that speaks of millions of years ago. One is de facto blind, the other not, and it is interesting how the world does indeed seem blinded by Evolutionary mythology.
I just want to point out something if what I wrote, this: “It absolutely is necessary to accept that God is the author and has not deceived in any way in order for anyone to have enough, literally, circumstantial information to actually believe God did inspire the Bible.” is unclear, or is thought to be circular, and if anyone is paying it attention. It is an axiom. It is necessary at the beginning of ALL lines of reasoning to affirm a certain assumption about the reasoners ability to understand truth from falsehood. Therefore, “I am able to know truth from falsehood” is an axiom that must be assumed in order to proceed in any line of reasoning. Anyone disagree? In the same way it is necessary for a person to agree the God of the Bible, a self-described infallible being who cannot lie, could not be deceiving (implying 6 days when really meaning billions of years) if the Bible was given by that same Being. The assumption assumes God exists, and like I’m saying, it is a legit assumption in order to reason correctly about God.
Basically, this says, “if God did not create in six days, then the God of the Bible is not God.”
A day is a single revolution of what we call earth.
Just out of curiosity how could you have a single DAY before earth has even been created?
I can’t believe that anyone can take genesis literally. who can define what a day means to God during creation before earth even existed?
That is a good question. Here is an interesting question to ask yourself. Did men, roughtly 6000 years ago, understand that the sun was where light came from? I know you have to guess, but isn’t it a pretty good guess? So, obviously what I’m going for here is if men wrote the Bible why and how on earth did they ever decide to put light on day one of Creation Week, and the creation of the sun on day four? That would be pretty strange for these “more” primitive people to make a creation story so abstract. Wouldn’t it? It’s counter-intuitive.
The reason for the sun coming later is most likely that God is indicating that true light comes from him, and that the sun is nothing to worship. You will find that there is always a symbol to God’s working.
Anyway, the way I perceive it is that the earth is rotating before God as he is working on it, and God is for the first three days the source of any light in the universe. All that needs to be in effect for an evening and a day on earth to occur is rotation. Since, the earth is rotating now, and God had created it by then, it is not a leap of logic to assume an evening and day effect were in effect and that God had begun using it as the convention that we observe now.
Could be it means a revolution of the universe as a “day,” rather than the revolution of an as-yet-uncreated planet. Which would indeed translate into a rather long time-frame.
Also, I will say that when I read cosmology, the concept that everything from the big bang had to expand at greater than the speed of light, meaning that everyWHERE expanded at greater than the speed of light, I couldn’t help but thinking of “let there be light.” Then, of course, the light was separated as matter coalesced, etc. There are quite a few metaphorical parallels between Genesis and cosmology, and the idea that there’s an inherent contradiction is something that detracts from both.
Jonk, you’re wrong, and here’s why: Exodus 20:11, “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”
They are not compatible unless God has made a false statement. Since, that is not possible it means that of Evolutionary origins and Biblical origins one of them is wrong. Those who believe in the Bible are supposed to trust in God, but instead many have taken the fallible, ever-changing beliefs of men and forced them into Scriptures. It is telling to see, also, how any compromise between Scripture and Science necessarily means that it is Scripture that must conform, indicating the priority in such men’s thinking: Naturalism.
For me, it was thinking about Noah’s Flood that confirmed that Genesis is true. Look at the world. There is evidence everywhere of a global flood, which speaks of the truth of ALL of Genesis, since Noah’s flood is generally rejected based on the same criteria as Creation Week. And it is such strong circumstantial evidence that it deserves attention. Practically all fossils are themselves evidence for catastrophic water burial. How did the Bible “predict” this? How did the Bible “predict” that all men are of ONE BLOOD? This is powerful circumstantial evidence.
Don’t think I am hard-up for Creation. I am hard-up to the fact that Jesus is the truth and the way, and that Jesus believed in a literal Genesis. And that undermining Genesis is a most sure way to make the words of Jesus of no effect, because Genesis speaks of the credibility of the Creator’s authority.
Remember, the serpent tempted Eve saying, “Did God really say…”.
A Version of Conversion by Theodore Dalrymple
What we see here is the very characteristic modern thirst of people who have led privileged lives for the safe psychological haven of victim status (though I doubt that the thirst for real raw physical victimhood is not rather easily slaked). One of the attractions of Islam to someone like Lauren Booth is therefore quite likely to have been its tendency, which is no doubt cultural rather than doctrinal in origin, to self-pity.
http://tinyurl.com/25unftb
In his ordering of things: 1)”John B’s” thirty-year phenomena appears in false explanation in this way: It mistakes the completed and motive force which mankind are, for that of an animal: A child is not nearly so much seeking to fill any void, as he is seeking particular necessities which are requisite to creating and completing his view of reality; Adam as taxonomist in The Garden of Eden is an example.
Upon wondering about a thing for thirty years, any sensible inquirer would have tested those hypotheses which may be found of alternative approaches.
2)”Everyone “knows” that the Bible is actually, mainly myths and legends, and that God is actually a projection of our own wishful thinking, or something like that.”: No, EVERYONE doesn’t know that—but mainly, only left-winger types. And, there’s not so much danger in a left-winger knowing something; rather is danger inherent in that which the left-winger KNOWS but, isn’t actually so.
3)For reasons mentioned in another comment, Islam presents itself not nearly so much as a religion, as it does an algorithm for a grand criminality. Also is it, not so much that, suicide bombers BELIEVE anything about martyrdom, as it is that, they labor under a will which is overborne and psychologically crippled.
Then, except as tending to the most negative of life’s imaginations, Islam does not “lay claim to certainty”; rather—as is to be seen in Islam’s resistance to music and fun, Islam is set to destroy every certainty which may be set to positive outcome.
Then, Islam is but one of the vectors the aim of which is to put Christianity in an irrelevant and subordinate position.
Finally, as for ever having “the full scientific data” as Paul left for us, in HIS wisdom, it pleased G0D that, man in his wisdom should not be able to discover G0D.
But to wrap this up, this convert seeks not to fill any void; rather does she respond to the impulse of higher life form—as different from the lower animal kindom—she seeks to increase and spread a sense of void and repression which is partly unique to herself, but in all ways is unique to the destitution inhering in the badness which Islam is, . . .
Why would she convert? For attention perhaps? Now she’s had her 15 mins of fame she can relocate to the backside of the Crapistan desert, and become wife No 4 to some 80 year old local Mufti, and her value will be right up there with family camel (wife No 3).
At least she will not get a parliament seat like Ian Hirsi or Royal treatment like Rushdie
See also: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_women_s_rights
In a sane world, the answer to “why would she convert to Islam” would be “because she believes it’s true”. Religion is supposed to be what you actually believe about the universe. If you choose your faith for any other reason — a fuzzy feeling you get, a political statement you want to make, a reaction to other people’s behaviour — then it’s not really faith at all. The fact that, nowadays, those seem to be considered perfectly good reasons to convert has been bugging me for a long time.
A close friend who’d grown up in a Muslim family said most female converts to Islam are late 30- early 40 somethings who can no longer woo or compete to find a partner again or that financial success they may have once had. Lauren Booth is such a person.
Ms. Booth’s a divorcee, 40 something who is no longer an appealing ‘catch’, burnt out on the idea of staying in shape, the idea of a ‘bohemian’ type of lifestyle, ‘faith’ is what the doctor ordered.
A few years back Ms. Booth was on Brit reality shows. One last gasp/taste of youthful antics. Realizing she’d outgrown or the public had outgrown her, this religious action makes sense to one who’s given up on life or ‘submitting’ to Allah.
Hmmm… I like your analysis
Sad, in so many ways.
As someone whose life is guided by Occam’s Razor, the most likely explanation is that the woman is a nutcase. Don’t make things too complicated.
Excellent!! LMAO..hysterically. OMG this is such a great observation and conclusion..
You didn’t answer the question though, you just affixed a label (standard lawyer trick, btw). Whatever is driving the madness, and I think the author essentially got it right, is also the reason why so many women keep returning to their battering boyfriends. And there are lots of them.
Crazy? Sure. But that doesn’t explain what’s going on under the hood.
Britain doesn’t have a ‘Death Row’, so she couldn’t marry someone on it. The next ‘logical’ thing for her to do was to go to Iran and convert to Islam. Makes sense to me.
Christianity has failed to be a beacon to the world due to its burdens of failures throughout the church, the childraping priests, the Moral Majority’s collapse from a ground swell of morally correct behavior into yet another right wing activist group are two examples.
The church centrally has embraced moral relativism, a frantic fear of making any kind of judgement about behavior, and a emotionally masturbatory focus on social justice (read welfare). Go find a church that bases its theology on the neo-orthodox teachings of Bonhoeffer or Niebuhr. See where the Catholic church stands on the Culture of Life theology of Pope JohnPaul II, yeah, they give it lip service, but do they live it?
Until Christianity stands for something and against something, even if the liberal media doesn’t approve, it will be weak and powerless against Islam.
Another excellent comment. I rarely go to church. The church has moved too far to the left for me. When priets started taking political (read left) sides and advocating for illegal aliens, abortion is okay, we should not fight for our freedoms and that, as you say, moral relativism and PC are the guiding principles that is when I left. Actually I left when it became obvious that the church began allowing openly homosexual men into the order. The church gave up on kids and youth. Just let them go after the pedophile scandal. So now churches are a sea of gray and blue haired faithful who have no idea that the church they grew up with is not the church they place their faith in today.
My sister is devout but yet supports abortion and the welfare state. Talk about your cognitive dissonance. We have had too many arguments over the church’s stance so I gave up.
I think there’s a large element of selectivity in Christianity today. People are so used to having choices in stores or whatnot that many seem to feel that they can pick and choose which religious practices they want to observe. For instance, they feel that they can’t in good conscience oppose abortion because it contradicts “a woman’s right to choose” and they feel that abstinence is too prudish so they ignore church teachings on that but still consider themselves full Christians. Church attendance is so low that the church itself rarely has the confidence to reject parishioners that don’t want to “buy the whole package” so the church gradually gets diluted by the half-hearted members.
Please don’t give up on God or His church because of people that have messed up and don’t admit it…. there are still good churches around, but you may have to search for awhile to find one!
I see these kinds of questions occasionally.
“How can whites vote for a fulminating racist like Obama?”
“How can an American vote for a candidate filled with hate for America like Obama?”
(Cause they are filled with hatred for America and are racists, like Obama)
“How can a black man vote Republican?”
(Cause he believes in freedom and human dignity.)
“How can a woman convert to Islam?”
(Cause God spoke to her.)
Naturally, the person in question’s own, stated motives are dismissed.
People’s failures of imagination and provincialism never ceases to amaze me.
“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
C’mon. Islam isn’t that different from Socialism: oppression, inequality, extreme hatred are its hallmarks as well and few can doubt why it’s popular–ask any professor. And God isn’t on Socialism’s side; so say the Socialists.
I see it as a fad embraced by London upper class. Prince Charles blubbering is another example of going native on the fringes of crumbled empire.
BINGO ! we have a winner
so many genralizations here
this particular woman was lving in close proxity to those brave “feeedom fighters” ont eh marvi mara- and has long affinity for and is a fan of and fakestinain suicider and jewhater, a friend to anyone who despise ISRAEL the cause of all the worlds miseries- in such closeness to her heros, close enough to smell their sweat, how could she not fall in love with their rich “culture” . Besides Maybe she likes SPANKING, and hopes for a Muslim guy who fulfills her fdantasies, you know those naughty UpperClass Brits
“Of course, the question that remains is why Christianity doesn’t provide the moral guidelines so many women are seeking.”
Of course Christianity provides the moral guidelines women (or men, for that matter) should be seeking. Ever hear of the Ten Commandments? Every read the Bible? This is just a deperate cry for attention from some females. You can certainly get whatever moral guidelines you want from Christianity, if you want them. These women (and I doubt there are that many who want to succumb to the heavy fist of Islam) have made the choice not to embrace Christianity. So, I say “good luck to you.” If you really think that Islam will treat you better than Christianity does, espcially an Islam under Sharia law, then you’re bigger chumps than I think you are. Ask the women in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia how much fun Islam is. I think you’ll find your answers with the people who actually have to live under those religious fanatics.
Converts to i’slam were NEVER Christian;
a believer in Almighty God Jehovah and
Jesus Christ could never simply switch
to invention.
which religion isn’t an invention ?
believe what ever but they are all man made.
this woman is a fool. there s no relevant story to her “conversion”
excellent!! religion is strictly man’s way of controlling man.. spiritualism is another story.
I am not a Christian. AND!!, The world is full of good people that are not Christians. Christianity is as made up as any other religion. If it takes that particular belief to make you feel good/whole, then embrace it. I love theology, but this is not the place to get into it.
Lauren had an “experience”…like women who marry serial killers in prison. There is no explanation, they’re just empty. This woman was obviously missing something in her life and the conversion made her feel good about herself.
I do want to see her live among the muslim masses,say in …iran..where the women struggle everyday to be free, not get stoned, married off before puberty.
How do you know that she is being honest about her feelings?
After her lies about the destitute state of Gaza why couldn’t she be lying now?
Given that she is in the public eye she could very well have come to a financial agreement to sell Islam without having to suffer the indignities of a Muslim husband and the restrictions imposed on the Shiite women.
She seems to be dressing more like the queen of Jordan than Ahmadinejad’s wife.
Answer: notoriety.
Affirmative action and realtives can get you only so far.
You’re probably right. Just by converting, regardless whether it’s sincere or not, she’ll be an instant celebrity in the Middle East. She’ll probably be a hit on the talk show circuit and become a regular on Al Jazeera and other Islamic news channels.
George Galloway has set him self up quite comfortably by sucking up to Islam and he didn’t even convert.
You have to ask yourself, why didn’t Ms. Blair become Amish? She could have gotten the same thing without the abuse. Or, since she was Roman Catholic, why didn’t she become a nun. Both of these would have been healthier options for what she purports to complain about. Her complaint was with the culture and its permissiveness and ‘rat race’ stress. If she was serious, she could have found that in the Christian faith but chose not to.
It was not Christianity it was the surrounding culture that she was trying to escape.
Lauren will be a “star” with her new religion.
<$ Money, power, opening of doors. She will be used for propaganda. She will be a "star", not the dowdy fish wife, or the very real, very mistreated muslim woman..a "STAR".
Christianity, being Amish, Buddhism etc would never in her wildest dreams have gotten her the press she now gets, she's a "star"!!.
I’m forwarding this to my pastor–when our church* meets for prayer each week, we pray for the Christians in America to live their faith, and for churches to teach the Bible without apology. Mr London (I imagine it is actualy Dr. London), thank you for the clear wake-up call.
You show great understanding of the plight of so many women in our culture, who may not know the Bible says “She who lives for pleasure is dead while she lives”, but are experiencing the truth of it.
The Bible teaches some really radical notions–like that if I am uncertain what to do, I should go to my husband for guidance. (I have some hours toward a post-graduate degree, and my IQ exceeds 150). Over the 40 plus years of our marriage there have been many times I’ve (watch out girls, here comes the no-no word) SUBMITTED myself to him and been glad for his protection and God-given wisdom. No, our marriage is not perfect–sometimes it has been painful and difficult (that’s quite normal, by the way) but we both viewed our marriage vows as unbreakable. By the grace of God, this child of the 60s was shielded from the “freedom” that now has many of our generation and most of the next in bondage to the precepts of our overly permissive and politically correct culture–and desperately hungry for meaning.
Wherever you are, Girlfriend, and whatever your circumstances, that grace is available to you too. I pray you find Him.
A thought..
If we started investigating the koran in our bible classes, maybe we would see the horror that awaits…and people would come to realize we have to fight back.
In a Bible class for a two fold reason: To understand what god says with the bible, and the koran to understand what muslims are trying to do to our religion, our world.
verily …most muslims know very little of the koran. they do not learn it or have discussions about it like Catholics do about christianity.
Why should a woman embrace feminism with its support for abortion a practice that eliminates mostly female babies. Feminism stays silent before the clear abuse of women in rap music and pornography. Why support the pill in spite of the mounting evidence linking the pill to all kinds of cancer in females.
One always have to consider idiocy (first) and perhaps the insidious self-destructive impulse laying at the center of Liberalism. England has a long history of fascination with “arabism” even before Burton’s translation of the Arabian Nights or the silliness of Lawrence of Arabia. This is nothing more than an act of intellectual stupidity.
England was once a bulwark of Christianity and once gave the world great minds like the Venerable Bede, C.S. Lewis, John Henry Newman to name a few. Isn’t it ironic that all that England was began to fade away after one of her kings abused and killed several of his own hapless spouses? Isn’t it symbolic that one of Henry VIII’s first acts of rebellion against Catholic Rome was the destruction by fire of all the statues of Mary of Nazareth?
Rowan Williams and the loony prince, Tony Blah’s Muslim sister that is all that’s left of a once proud empire.
If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe—
Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
Or lesser breeds without the Law—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!
For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard—
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding calls not Thee to guard.
For frantic boast and foolish word,
Thy Mercy on Thy People, Lord!
(Kipling)
Catino: “Why should a woman embrace feminism with its support for abortion a practice that eliminates mostly female babies. Feminism stays silent before the clear abuse of women in rap music and pornography. Why support the pill in spite of the mounting evidence linking the pill to all kinds of cancer in females.”
Because feminism says the female body belongs to the female – not the next male relation. Because, with feminism it is your choice whether to take the pill and risk cancer (how many ‘religious’ men smoke cancer making cigarettes?).
Because in feminism, women can rap too – and be rude about men (without being whipped) – but do not confuse this with abuse! Abuse it what you get when women ‘belong’ to men – are slaves to a demagogue, can be killed for the crime of being raped.
Women posing for Playboy get paid a lot of money, it is their choice.
This is what it is all about: Having choices, not having them made for you.
It is about freedom and responsibility and liability and bravery.
Some women are just cowards and want to be ‘safe’ rather than free.
As a feminist I can only say: Your Choice.
And as a rational man, I can only say: As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
Feminists’ assertions of privilege, most notably the privilege of slaughtering an innocent third party to escape the consequences of their choices, have rendered them noxious to the majority of American women. Feminism’s “market share” sinks with every new generation — and with every endorsement of some adulterous, intern-molesting left-liberal power-monger because “he’s good on women’s rights.”
We all get what’s coming to us eventually, dear. Remember that you read it here first. Your feminist icons wouldn’t ever have told you.
That’s my point. We are all free to choose self destruction, slavery, etc.
The wisdom of those choices is what eventually differentiates the living from the dead.
I knew a young woman who did this. She basically followed leftist fads. If she had lived in the 1930s, she would have been a communist. Being born in the 1980s, she found that this option had faded away, so she lived as a lesbian in college, and then after 9/11 converted to Islam. The last I heard, she had married some guy from the Middle East who a few years later abandoned her. Serves her right.
How is Islam a leftist fad?
The media is in love with islam. They eat up every story just like this. The way they talk about islam is just the same way they talk about the new way beniferjoliepitt are raising their zoo of adopted kids. They treat it as if it really important.
I am reminded by this story of the many Russians who had a chance to flee the Soviet Union to the United States, but chose to return to the stifling and totalitarian Soviet Union, because they could not adapt to the environment of freedom here. The burden of making one’s own choices and assuming responsibility for one’s own life and happiness, whether in politics or supermarkets or clothing stores, was overwhelming. They were “hard-wired” to looking to the state to satisfy their needs, provide direction, and the duty to defer to an all-encompassing authority. Novelist Ayn Rand, who fled Russia in 1926, welcomed the change. She left behind her parents and two sisters and a number of friends. She managed to keep in contact with the family in spite of Soviet censorship of the mails. All but one family member perished during WWII, (which she didn’t know until after the war, there were years of silence), a favorite sister, for whom she arranged a visit in the 1970’s. The woman came with her husband. After a joyful reunion – and offers by Rand to establish them in this country – they chose to return to the Soviet Union and the restrictions and deprivations there. This was a bitter disappointment for Rand.
Basically, people who choose such obviously wrong “spiritual paths” to submission to totalitarian or oppressive authority of the religious and secular kinds are “hard-wired” for the conversion. They have been taught to be selfless and self-sacrificing, to think of others before thinking of themselves. Or, they are selfless anyway, never having established a core identity that is unique and self-created. They are prepared to relinquish that identity or never had one to relinquish. They are usually consummate second-handers, having adopted or deferred to the values of others without having found values of their own choosing. Such people naturally defer to the alleged dictates of “society” or “the people” or a nanny state. How many Americans have succumbed to the pressures of authority and given up smoking, or stopped drinking, or pledged themselves to “recycle” or eat only “organic” food, or volunteer to pick up litter at roadsides, and so on, and adopt what only could be called a “religious” fervor in that brand of submission?
Such people have no chosen purpose in life that is linked to personal happiness. They have no selves to speak of, or what selves they have are tissue thin and ready to be shredded by the first wind of “absolute” authority. They are ready to convert to an ideology or religion (and Islam is both) that will provide them with ready-made “pure” values that they don’t need to think about or work for, to resign passively to being an “empty vessel” and enjoying the “serenity” of having no values to pursue or fight for, other than the “higher” goals or purposes provided by others. Christianity helps to prepare them for that, as well, although Christianity at least stresses the salvation of one’s own “soul.” In Islam, one’s “soul” is the property of Allah.
I do not think women are more susceptible to converting to Islam than are men. According to Robert Spencer and Steve Emerson, the three top Islamic terrorist “masterminds” threatening the U.S. are now American male converts who grew up in this country, and not foreign Muslims raised in purely Islamic societies. Here one encounters not so much conversion as a species of psychopathy and a malignant hostility for freedom (based on evaluations of the choices others make, such as “fads and fashions” – again, second-handedness), for Islam allows men to take the lead in jihad, and not women. In photographs of Muslims demonstrating in London against Western values, blocking Paris streets to say prayers, or rioting in Pakistan or Indonesia, most of the participants are male. Some Muslim women are mere figureheads, chosen to put a false face of “tolerance” on the creed.
In Lauren Booth’s case, the “shot of morphine” can probably be traced to her having lived a selfless life and made a career of service to altruist causes, and Islam seemed to make those causes more “real” and shorn of all personal value or benefit. It is a more common phenomenon than one might credit.
Bravo,
I couldn’t said it better myself. I have to admit from this article, as well as from some of the comments, a lot of people don’t see a link between faith and unreason. It seems that only Islam is the problem; religion as such is the problem! It makes sense to me that someone such as this woman would abdicate the use of her mind. Especially when she knows the evidence, even if it’s subconsciously that Islam is an all encompassing faith that expects total submission of mind, body and soul. As you pointed out, she is a total second-hander. Western women like her can still live in relative freedom, so she waxes lyrical about how wonderful Islam is without living in a fully Islamic society. Why doesn’t she go Afghanistan or better yet, stay in Iran or Saudi Arabia for a few years?
“Why doesn’t she go Afghanistan or better yet, stay in Iran or Saudi Arabia for a few years?”
Given her new celebrity status and her role as a propaganda tool for Islam it will be impossible for her to experience the typical life of a muslima. She will be pampered in every country she goes to in and effort to ensure that her experience being a muslim is a pleasant one.
When ever she addresses the public she will boast about how her life has been filled with love and joy since she converted to Islam; Oh yah…and that gold plated BMW from the Emir of Dubai is kinda’ nice too!
I am reminded of Eric Hoffer’s wonderful book, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements (1951).
Hoffer identifies, as you have, that men and women who convert to any mass movement – including Islam – may be described as “frustrated.”
By “frustrated”, Hoffer means “people, who for one reason or another, feel that their lives are spoiled or wasted.”
In The True Believer, Hoffer explains that it doesn’t so much matter what the doctrine or the aspirations of the mass movement are. What matters most is that they “all appeal to the same types of mind.” This is the common theme.
“Though there are obvious differences between the fanatical Christian, the fanatical Mohammedan, the fanatical nationalist, the fanatical Communist, and the fanatical Nazi,” Hoffer writes in the Preface, “it is yet true that the fanaticism which animates them may be viewed and treated as one. . .
“There is a certain uniformity in all types of dedication, of faith, of pursuit of power, of unity and of self-sacrifice. . .
“Starting out from the fact that the frustrated predominate among the early adherents of all mass movements and that they usually join of their own accord, it is assumed:
“1.) that frustration of itself, without any proselytizing prompting from the outside, can generate most of the peculiar characteristics of the true believer;
“2.) that an effective technique of conversion consists basically in the inculcation and fixation of proclivities and responses to the frustrated mind.”
I heartily recommend The True Believer by Eric Hoffer (1951) to anyone who wonders why people are drawn to radical causes.
Don’t forget the tourism aspect of it all. People are very suggestible when they are relaxed on a trip abroad, and they also don’t spend enough time in the host culture to get past the euphoria stage. This woman would probably have had a similar spiritual experience in another country with another religion, but Iran happens to be where she went on vacation, so Islam is the souvenir she brought back.
Many people have a similar reaction to foreign cultures as they travel, a euphoria that makes them want to absorb and become part of the culture. However, if they actually go and work the daily grind there, their view of the people can change dramatically after several months.
“Islam is the souvenir she brought back.”
Thanks for the laugh of the day. That’s a very colorful way to put it.
True, but does that lessen her experience any?
If you were to fall in love on vacation somewhere and ask your new love to come back with you. Would you be okay with your friends or some stranger saying that your love is just some souvenir?
We are all spiritual beings, whether we know it or not. Finding no spiritual fulfllment in her life, here is a lady who clearly understands that materialism is meaningless when one is living in a spiritual vacuum or worse. The emptiness of our post-Christian materialist society is probably its most defining characteristic, and these conversions to a faith that is not bashful in its assertions are no surprise. These people are hungry for God, hungry for meaning. They have “had it all” and are asking themselve, “Is this all there is?” Their conversion is also a stinging indictment of the failure of modern Churchianity to provide answers or meaning to life. Get ready to see more of this.
Mr. London:
“Of course, the question that remains is why Christianity doesn’t provide the moral guidelines so many women are seeking.”
Is that the question? Or would the question be why these people,(women are not the only ones who convert to Islam after all), not seeking what they think they need in the Christian faiths?
Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in their perception of Christianity, along with contempt for that with which they think they know.
You yourself demonstrate this when you wrote:
“Women in the West may deplore the pressure to act like men by drinking to excess and engaging in casual sex.”
Is that what men do, Mr. London…is that ALL we do? Does that simplistic stereotype indicate the character of your own life? I suspect not.
Yet these are the words you chose to use…why is that?
It could be that these women you are so concerned about are looking for a society of men who have a little more self-respect and self-esteem than the crew of inebriated fornicators that you have painted Western men to be. Whatever else it does, Islam certainly seems to instill self-esteem among its male adherents.
“Christianity’s unwillingness to assert the limits of behavior — a loss of confidence, if you will — has given Islam the upper hand with women who are suggestible and vulnerable to propaganda.”
Vulnerable to propaganda…a lot of that going around.
Look, “Christianity” is fractured into a thousand different sects, not one monolithic system of conduct and belief, so on that note also, you reveal that you really don’t know what you think you know.
Mormonism is a Christian faith, as is the Society of Friends, (Quakers), as are evangelical Baptists, and so are Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox. And each of those Christian faiths assert their own standards of conduct upon the faithful.
No loss of confidence there.
Perhaps if these women, (and men), were more aware of the faiths they were likely born into they could find their path from among them.
But then if all that they think they know is what they have learned from the ignorant and the hostile, then an exodus to Islam (or any other alien faith or cult, for that matter), isn’t at all surprising.
The vulnerability to propaganda would likely first show symptoms by their rejection of their own faith; they cannot enter the Mosque unless they first leave the Church or the Temple, yes?
In any event, I hope that they find what they are looking for, because Islam, unlike Christian and Jewish faiths, does not abide apostasy.
Once you’re in, you leave on pain of death.
As I see it, Christianity’s unwillingness to assert the limits of behavior — a loss of confidence, if you will — has given Islam the upper hand with women who are suggestible and vulnerable to propaganda.
It depends on the type of Christianity, but the big problem is the state’s attacks on it. The cultural outlook of the Islamic converts isn’t Christianity but accidentalism. A culture that teaches that everything is by chance — which really has become the state-sanctioned position in the West — is going to ultimately fail to one that insists that it is not.
What is especially ironic is that those hold cultural — and even governmental — power are far less anti-Islamic than anti-Christian. Where are the expressions of outrage by civil rights groups against cab drivers who refuse passengers with seeing eye dogs? Where are the movies that depict Islam as narrow-minded and intolerant? How about one on that young lady who had to go into hiding because she supported drawing pictures of Mohammed?
Why, for Pete’s sake, would women wearing burkas get special privileges at airport passenger screenings?
Excellent questions. Why are so many people, including President Obama upside down? Why is his support above 10%? The woman in the burka should be cavity searched.
Of course, Christianity does give moral guidance as to actions, especially the Catholic Church.
I do find it interesting that those that fetishize the “purity” of Islam get a bug up their butts about much milder pronouncements from the Pope. I suppose the difference is while the Pope merely says that fornication and adultery are sins, the Muslims will actually stone women for it. Even when it wasn’t the woman who sinned, as she was a rape victim.
Oh well, maybe the Church needs to bring back forcibly cloistering up wayward women. Then we’ll get converts to our “purity”.
I would say that Christianity has not failed to set the legal bounds of society, but society has failed to accept the open invitation of Christ. Christianity and Christ are about an open loving invitation of peace, love, redemption, and salvation. As an “open and loving” invitation, it is not about forced standards.
It is this “open and loving” invitation, however, that has allowed our society’s elites to mock and undermind the foundations of Christianity at every turn they can. The elites use the government, the courts, and the media to eliminate the norms, bounds and rules that Christianity gives as a gift to the people. This is not democratic behavior, at least not in the US where the majority of the population is Christian. The hostile action of the elites is in fact dictitorial, which is why their favorite tool is the courts which impose dictats that would never be passed by the legislatures. Just look at abortion, pornography, and sexual norm’s; which have all had their bounds torn down by an unelected court. And these courts did so against the will of the people and beyond the authority of the US constitution.
Islam can enforce its standards because its invitation is not of love, but the sword. The hostile behavior of the elites toward Christianity, if shown toward Islam would and has resulted in death to this very day. What Muslim country can you walk into and “act like a westerner” and not be beaten and or thrown into jail? Why is the mocking of the media not even considered toward Islam? Because the elites are cowards and Islam as practiced by a significant part of its populations and institutions is forced. I do not make this statement lightly, but turn toward the offical Fatah’s issued by its leadership and the behavior of the Muslim governments.
Amen brother.
Very insightful. But I think the desire for moral and behavioral absolutes is common to both men and women, especially those who are turned off by the inevitable corruption that becomes manifest when people have the ability to make such choices.
You may be right about the need for limits but what happens after they find those limits and they turn out to be the limits of a straight jacket?
From the article:
“Of course, the question that remains is why Christianity doesn’t provide the moral guidelines so many women are seeking. As I see it, Christianity’s unwillingness to assert the limits of behavior — a loss of confidence, if you will — has given Islam the upper hand with women who are suggestible and vulnerable to propaganda.”
If you are seeking Christianity that does offer sound moral guidelines while also fully respecting the principles of liberty and individual responsibility that form the foundations of Judaeo-Christian civilization, I suggest you take a good look at Orthodox Christianity.
“Converts, however, refer to the celebration of old-fashioned family values and hospitality, values which have been eroded in the West. For many, Islam is an escape route from the cultural degradation of Western society.
But what converts often confuse is culture and religion. The warmth a family confers is not the same as the demands of religious obedience.”
Orthodox Christianity also supports both family values and hospitality. Visit an Orthodox Christian parish and find out for yourself!
By the way, yes, I’m a practicing Orthodox Christian. No, I don’t get any material compensation for spreading the word about it.
Here’s the deal: Non-religious people are often filled with resentment for their own religion. Take a non-religious catholic. He doesn’t like Catholicism. Because he doesn’t like catholicism, he doesn’t like Christianity, EVEN if his issues might be addressed in another branch of Christianity, so if he is suddenly inspired he will either become a religious catholic, or join something completely new because he doesn’t perceive any of the faults that his first religion had. To become a baptist, for example, wouldn’t even cross his mind. The same thing happens with secular Jews as well. In the Islamic world, it gets even weirder as, in more open countries, people float back and forth very easily between the local Christianity and Islam. I have yet to fully examine it, and there definitely is resentment between the groups, but an unhappy Muslim will fairly quickly join Christianity, than something incredibly foreign like Judaism or something else.
Firstly, Lauren Booth didn’t even bother to read the Koran before she converted. The reality is that she fits in, in today’s Moslem extremism with her anti-Semitism and her Israel bashing.Poor Tony Blair constantly has to disassociate himself with her rantings.
Now as far as Christianity is concerned or Judaism for that matter…the truth is that these religions do have major do’s and doen’ts in behavior except that the west has rejected those moral precepts. Furthermore, family is also a major aspect of all ethnic/religious cultures, that those in modern society reject this aspect of their heritage is not the fault of modern society but the fault of the persons and their choices.However, as a member of a western democracy I am free to choose what to do with my life and how to live it. That by the way is the catch…if you are free to choose then the choices you make are your fault and your fault alone. No one tells you what to do and what not to do (apart from some basic criminal laws which if violated does land one in jail) It is so much easier to live a life that you do not have to take responsibility for any of your choices. Freedom from responsibility for some is a very big draw.
“Family values”!?! In the same religion where a man can divorce his wife by saying “I divorce thee” three times and throw her out of the house with nothing? Where the saying is “me, my mother and my brothers against my father”? Where brothers are expected to take an axe to their sisters if their sisters do anything to threaten the family “honor”? Where wife-beating is not even an issue and a man can take another wife at his pleasure?
Those the “family values” we’re talking about here?
It’s a little more complicated than that, actually. It’s not that Christianity is unwilling to “to assert the limits of behavior.” On the contrary, Christianity has very definite boundaries on acceptable behavior. But you have to understand the difference between – as Christians put it – Law and Gospel. “Law” is the Law of Moses, the rules that must be obeyed and the breaking of which condemns you to hell. “Gospel” is the news of Christ’s fulfillment of that Law and the knowledge that you no longer have to live a perfect life in order to be saved.
Christianity preaches both, with the emphasis on the Gospel. Christianity is difficult because people prefer definite, safe, prescriptions for behavior – do this deed, or refrain from this activity and you will be saved. Christians are not saved by adherence to the law, they are saved by faith – which can be a very difficult thing. (In Christianity, the deeds follow from the faith. “You will know them by their fruit.”)
Islam, on the other hand, is pure Law. If you follow the 5 pillars of the faith you are acceptable to Allah. There is no thought required, no moral judgment. You can even live as evil a life as you please – just so long as you don’t break the Law as listed by Muhammad. It’s easy, just so long as you don’t think too hard.
it’s all control
Muslims and others are gong to be surprised when they die in this physical form and wake up on the other side greeted by a monkey named George.
People need something to believe, someone to control them, words to control them. People are weak, period.
Thank you, Paul,
I was sifting through all these comments, seeing if someone was going to point out the need to properly divide Law and Gospel if one is to understand Christianity. Thank you.
Alas, many churches today don’t distinguish clearly between the Law and the Gospel, leaving many very confused – not just Ms. Booth.
May the Church return to clear, Biblical catechesis, that many be built up in faith, and preserved from false teachers – both within (liberals) and without (Muslims).
The weak and submissive will always be among us, always have been and always will be.
Socialism and the muslim life sytle to me are very similar, based on obedience and submission with either dogma or religion as control.
Excellent article until the last paragraph. Christianity does provide the moral guidelines people are seeking. But unlike Islam, requires personal decisions to apply them to their lives. The Bible certainly asserts “the limits of behavior.” It’s the many modern secularized, “progressive” churches, especially rampant in Europe, that have shunned individual interpretation in favor of collective tolerance and moral relativism.
Conscience abhors a vacuum. Where a culture abandons Christian faith some other system must replace it. Old world Europe seems to have selected a menu of slavish Islam, nihilistic anarchy and that tired and tried evasion of personal responsibility – socialism.
But then again the conversions of these women may have a much simpler explanation. After all people pay good money to be beaten and humiliated.
Remember the women who were shaved bald and shunned because they sided with the nazis?
This will happen again…
Mr. London, I’ve been thinking the same thing for years, since 9/11. I remember seeing a children’s book on Islam in my local public library. In it, a preteen girl explained why she was attracted to Islam when exposed to it by a friend; it offered her something her liberal Christian church did not. How could she believe in a religion that was so wishy-washy and open to interpretation? Her church refuted itself. I’ve seen this happen in the Catholic church. We will be seeing many more of these conversions, as young people are exposed to Islam through classmates. Their conversions will be reinforced by curricula that promotes Islam over Christianity and by presentation of it as the religion of the oppressed.
yes I would think it is the social nature from the people she met that drew her in. Still I think that too much is placed on one person moving to or from a religion. …the article makes a story where there isn’t one.
your columns are great reading Mary.
regards
Gen. P. Malaise. Thank you for your kind words. But I think you underestimate the indoctrination that is going on in our schools and in the youth culture. Islam is cool. It’s the religion of the oppressed. White students are in so many ways told how privileged they are. It’s subtle, but I’ve seen it in action.
true I have been out of school for a while, I just thought the indoctrination was to the Marxist side (yes I am aware that they support each other right now). I stand corrected..
..regards
In this case, there’s a simpler explanation. Like her sister, Cherie Blair, who successfully fought for the “right” of British schoolgirls to be ensconced (and isolated) in hijabs,Lauren is a seriously disturbed woman.Add to that much of the British upper class which cut itself adrift of conventional western mores is having a Lawrence of Arabia moment in which Islam has beome chic.
Being free to choose is hard work. At every turn there are decisions and to make things more difficult humans tend to be herd animals. Joining a highly regimented religion gives the same comfort as joining a cult, as you pointed out, “They don’t have to choose.” Being free is also scary, for if you choose wrong, it’s all on you. For some anything is better than confronting their poor choices. Poor choices tend to spawn more of the same. Life does not always go on.
A thought to ponder, the effects she described are very similar to those of lithium ingestion.
I would also suggest that they are caught up in the “antiquity” of the religion and likely do not fully study the tenets of the religion. It is the mystery and show they are attracted to, not the actual living out of the rules. It would be interesting to know if she had a husband who is Muslim and see how she feels when her behavior is restricted by the religion. If she is single or married to a non-Muslim then her adherence to Islamic law is for her to choose, not someone else’s enforcement.
Many in the Christian faith pick and choose the commandments they want to follow. Some are all about the experience at a Holiday event, or while on a retreat. They are also caught up in the show. But how they live their life after the conversion is what proves their conversion.
Some women are just not getting along in the brave new world with being feminists, they prefer the seemingly reassuring patriarchy to the free-for-all gendermainstreamed society, as ever, the grass is always greener on the other side…
And the modern caponised Western men no longer indulge in the old fashioned male behavior pattern those ladies seek, so instead, they decided to take what they can get, even if that means to take the very rough with the little smooth they can find — it’s better than nothing in their eyes.
As one of the Nuremberg defendants put it:
“We joined the Party to be free from freedom”
It is similar but not entirely.
That testimony was a key facet in the defendants claiming that they were only following orders, that they were only tools acting by the force of another.
In this case, she might be giving up her “freedom” by looking to her new god for direction to found her decisions. But I don’t think she is saying she is a hapless puppet.
The problem is when muslims fail in an attempt to be a suicide bomber or something. They will say they are doing the work of god and take no personal responsibility. The way they look it seems like they really believe that they personally did noithing wrong. It drives me crazy and seeing this woman fall into the middle of it just makes me want to scream.
What the hell does WWII have to do with this?
Arthur Koestler’s 1950 novel The Age of Longing, which centers around an American woman’s affair with a Russian communist, provides insights which are highly relevant to this phenomenon. My review here: Sleeping with the enemy.
people / sheeple are social animals. we are easily influenced by those around us when we enjoy the social interaction. someone sold her into thinking it is a good idea.
that and not everyone does smart things. why would you think this woman has any insight. sound like she is rather messed up.
“Christianity doesn’t provide the moral guidelines so many women are seeking.”
That’s not the problem. The problem is that Christian churches in Europe have stopped looking for converts. They’re not reaching out to those disaffected, such as the lady in this article, because (IMO) they’ve accepted the role appointed them by their socialist governments as relics of the past.
I don’t think that is exactly right, it has a lot to do with it, but it is missing some of the story.
The classical Christian churches have become disillusioned with themselves, there effect on society has dwindled. The prevalence of the media, and social interaction has stopped the church being a social gathering place, and therefore a place of social stature.
As time goes on this is only going to worsen.
The government doesn’t treat islam like the way they treat the old christian chruchs. They are afraid to step on any toes, they dont want to offend any muslims. WHy is that? The don’t do anything to lessen the blow to christian chruches. But they bend over backwards for muslims. The government is afraid of the backlash from the muslims they know they are violent in nature.
Before the courts and Washington killed our constitution and permitted the elite to impose the religion of humanism on the Nation, we had the freedom to live and promote our own morals and values without official harassment and oppression. Humanism is morality turned up-side-down. The doctrine of humanism – political correctness – is now imposed and required for upward mobility. It is a vapid belief structure, devoid of inspiration and character in a top down imposed insanity and imorality. It is purely materialism.
Going Muslim is an extreme reaction to humanism but I can understand how one who is uneducated or made fearful and ashamed about their own religious roots in Europe, would move to the only acceptable religion of the leftist elite in Europe – Islam.
BINGO!
The paradox of the oikophobe seems to be that any opposition directed at the theological and cultural tradition of the West is to be encouraged even if it is “significantly more parochial, exclusivist, patriarchal, and ethnocentric”.
oikos – from the Greek meaning a “house,” “family,” “people,” or “nation” – Encyclopaedia Britannica
and
phobia – extreme or irrational fear or dislike of a specified thing or group – Webster’s Dictionary
Roger Scruton defines it as “the repudiation of inheritance and home,” and refers to it as “a stage through which the adolescent mind normally passes.”
They Convert To Islam For The Same Reason They Correspond With Criminals In Prison.They See Everyone That Does Evil,As Victims,Of An Unfair Society.They Have An Obsession To Fix What Either Can’t Be Fixed,In Human Natures Evil/Demonic Side.Or Even Try To Fix What Isn’t Broken.They Are Overnurturing,Touchy/Feely,People Who See The Dark Side Of Human Nature As Misunderstood,And Victims.And Those Who Live Within The Moral Standards Of Society,As The Problem;For Setting To High Of Standards,For These Predators,And Deadbeats To Live Up To.Who Are Mosque/ito’s On Society.Constantly Sucking The Life Blood From Society.No One Can Refute How These Same Women,Regardless Of What They Claim They Want In A Man.They Always Fall For The Badboy,But Marry For The Money,And Status,Have Children To Exploit For Their Own Purposes/Agenda’s.Or To Have Someone To Love Them Unconditionally,To Brainwash To Suit Her Own Purposes.Unless They Become Inconvienient.Then She Will Either Abort Them,Or Abandon Them.To Continue Chasing Losers,And Predator Men,Trying To Find Her Version Of Reality,At The Cost Of The Lives,Rights,And Liberties Of Others.I’m Only Speaking Of Liberal Women.Conservative Women,Are Like The GOP Elephant Strong,Independent,And Never Forgets.Liberal Women,Are Like The Donkey/Jackass.That Represents The Democrat Party.Stubborn,But Weakminded,And Never Learns.”In the last days women will rule,And Their Children Shall rule over them”Sure Sounds like Militant Feminism/liberalism,And Political Correctness To Me.As Well That Gay,Lesbian,Transgender,BI-Sexual 50 Year Outbreak.That Didn’t Come Out Of The Closet.But From Sexual,Mental,And Physically Abusive Boyfriends,Husbands,Brothers,Uncles,Fathers,Grandfathers,And Friends.Because These Women,Girlfriends,Wives,And Mothers,Allowed It,Tolerated It,Or Refused To Stop It.Due To Their Own Survival,Or Fear Of Losing What They Percieved As Love.But Now We’ve Made This Abuse,And Sick Pedophillia,Popular Culture.Thanks To Liberal Miltant Feminist Women;”Fools Rush In Where The Wise Will Never Go”I Know This Is Not Politically Correct Savvy Approved.But Unlike Most I Don’t Bow To The Alter Of Political Correctness,Or Shari’a Law Which Are The Same.A Get Out Of Jail Free Card,For Society Predators.Jimmy Joe/”The Liarfryer”
See also What’s Up With White Women by the Comanche blogger Bad Eagle (David Yeagley).
Yeagley cites a Cheyenne saying: A nation is never conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.
One convert cited in the Daily Mail said Islam allows you to reject fads and fashion and “seek a higher goal.”
I don’t think you need Islam (or anything else) to do that. Just a stiff spine and determination.
I have wondered if at least some of these (western) women gravitating to Islam aren’t just taking the easy path of adopting a (rigid) doctrine as a means of ordering their own dissolute and chaotic lives.
As you write…”…it is precisely being the prisoner of action that appeals to many women. They don’t have to choose; the religion does it for them. It is the escape route from their vision of a broken society…Some poor souls unable “to find themselves” seek refuge in self-selected slavery.”
After reading the Koran twice, reading ayatollah’s rulings on the tiniest details of everyday life and seeing the arbitrary expansion of Shari’a law over the centuries (including, but not limited to the enshrined low status of women in civic life), I could never conceive of Islam as an attrative or viable path.
This happened before when the Beatles went to Rishikesh, India, seeking enlightenment, to great fanfare. There followed a huge upsurge of interest within college dorms and such venues towards this exotic Judeo-Christian substitute. Most kids went for the sex and drugs. I’d say hatred for the West has hardened amongst a certain class of oikophobic elite, and with it their infantilism. The sister of Cherie Blair would fit the bill.
Of course, just as with the Beatles Blair has no need to worry about the nasty side effects not-so-elite converts will have to deal with. If there were a similar cultural phenomenon even remotely approaching the Beatles things could get very nasty indeed.
Hate to say it: it probably has to do with men. Usually the woman converts because of love and security. They give up finding a decent guy under the current Western feminist/intellectual regime.
And men have deserted Christianity (unlike Islam) in droves. The Islamic men (even though they treat women like crap) are “cleaner” morally: they drink less if at all, they have less debt, adultery is harder (although not impossible!), respect chastity, etc.
And these women–who crave morality and family structure–confuse these two items with religious belief.
Hepzibah you are not too far from the truth.
Yet most rapists in the West (and disproportion of crime) is committed by Muslims!
Citation or Source?
I don’t believe you. Produce your source, or admit that you just made it up.
I submit it’s pretty close to Tim Ackerman’s comment (5.) and propercharlie (55.), but more than just “cool,” it has to do with the belief that the spirituality you need will be “exotic” and “on the other side of the world.” There’s silly notion that you have to journey to it.
My thinking is that God is pretty mundane and to be found right at home in the most ordinary of things on the most ordinary of days.
There is only one answer to this question and that is sheer STUPIDITY. What rational being would tie themselves to a CULT in which they merely exist as an appendage, possession or chattel of a Male and can be beaten at will and are considered less intelligent than a Male and have less worth and have less legal standing and receive less inheritance than a Male and have to keep themselves covered an hidden because the CULT Males are unable too and whats more not required to control themselves if the see your face or God forbid your hair. All of which is codified behaviour in the Koran and Islamic Shariah Law so beloved of stupid PC Multi Culti left wing moonbats everywhere.
Without the money to travel she would have turned to be a Jehovah’s Witness or something of that sort.
The people that choose to convert to Islam are not the kind of people that read and comment on web sites such as this. They most likely have done little or no research into what Islam actually is.
They’re the ones that actually believe “religion of peace” mantra being spewed by the media, or they think it’s cool to wear a Palestinian keffiyeh, or they get sucked in by CNN’s coverage of ramadan and the hajj.
Unfortunately people that are knowledgeable about Islam are still a small minority.
Because it is easier when you don’t have to think.
“Nostalgie de la boue”, could be the answer or simple idiocy, we don’t know. In the West, anything in the East is automatically given spirituality in the same way John Wayne means stupidity in certain circles. Julia Roberts is around Hindus in Bali and India and converts. I was in India for 3 months and Bali for 6 and a half and felt no such need to do so. Everything outside ourselves seems bright and wonderful. I like being ordinary and being forced to look at my surroundings with better eyes rather than getting a fix from culture shock. It wears off and you’re still there. Ironically, in this scenario of converting in the name of rejecting fads, one is perhaps emphatically embracing one. The fact of the matter is that we don’t know why this woman converted and our reactions perhaps tell us more about ourselves than anything true about this woman’s experience. Oops, that’s the call to prayer. Gotta go!.
I’m surprised that Herbert London, in no way a naive thinker, doesn’t mention womens’ attraction to “bad boys.” If there is one thing that muslim males, to be specific radical terrorist muslim males, exemplify, at least to women, it is that they are bad boys: dangerous, ruthless, thrilling. The attraction of the bad boy is woman’s psychology 101. Underneath all the pap about spiritual bliss is the attraction of the hard, cruel, sadistic male, a muslim specialty, that women crave.
Good point. Damned good point.
A woman converting to Islam is the pseudo-spiritual version of sending a love letter to a wife-killer on death row, which is a phenomenon that has always creeped me out.
these men (arab) understand duplicity. the world they show the naive woman is not the one she will experience in a very short time after she “submits”.
I would love to see Phyllis Chester chime in on this one.
excellent point!! where is phyllis on this???
Excellent point.
Another point along these lines: Moslem men, especially youth, are massively sexually deprived creatures owing to the strict strictures of Muslim society and the risable separation of the sexes.
That’s why they “go wild” when visiting the West. It’s also why a western woman visiting or living in a Muslim society is the object of a huge amount of attention. Doesn’t matter if she’s “ugly”. As long as she has breasts (the more exposed the better) and other accrutements of the female body, it’s going to call attention to them.
It’s also why Muslim men generally view Western woman as little better than harlots and “available”. It’s probably this attitude that finally caused Blair’s sister to succumb to the call of the Minaret.
And….it’s also why the Middle East has lately become a haven for gay western men. All that unfulfilled testesterone has to have an “outlet” somewhere.
Great contribution to the discussion. An “anything goes” society results in a “nothing matters” funk. I think a moral/ethical code is essential to any healthy functioning society. Religion does offers such a code. Religion also offers a social support system which many people find important in their life. Can you get such a code without religion? Based on my experience, I think you can. I am not a member of any religion yet I have a strong sense of what is right or wrong developed from my father and reinforced by a mentor in my profession. Neither my father nor my mentor were religious. Many traditional religions seem to be floundering in trying to adapt themselves to the “anything goes” societies of today. Whereas, Islam has taken a definitive stand. As you suggest, Ms. Booth is probably trying to fill the “anything goes” void in her life. We have support groups for everything else why not support groups for morals and ethics? It’s better than signing up for Islam.
The only reason you have a code without religion is because of the residue of the influence of whatever religion was dominant in the culture, in our case centuries of Judeo-Christianity. It’s easy to assume you just figured it all out on your own and it is just a rational thing to come to, but actually, other cultures come to other conclusions in other religious matrices, such as Confucianism leading to widespread devaluing and murder of girl children for example. You can already see where an Islamic matrix goes. I think it may shock some people where all of this leads when that Judeo-Christian residue is entirely gone and the moral signposts have been eradicated.
There are many options but the two that come first are:
I) Some women are disenchanted by the “You can have it all” mantra. They are tired of being alone (whether married, cohabiting or not), tired of working all day and being so tired at night that all they can do is fall into bed practically comatose. They are tired of making decisions, they are tired of being abused/venerated by Peter Pan’s who will NEVER grow up. They don’t have any idea where to find “adult men” so they are venerable to the snake oil salesman and the charismatic underdog. (Just look at the women in America who voted for Obama in 2008) Should be interesting to see what happens when she’s told she doesn’t need to work, can’t write what she thinks and will be flogged if she speaks out of turn or stoned if she continues to resist. Sharia law.
2) There are women who have spent their entire adult lives trying to be different. They are so tied to being non conformists that they will go to any lengths to prove how much more different, “enlightened”, intelligent and tolerant they are. They never follow the decision making paradigm to it’s logical conclusion, nor do they understand the idea of commitment. They have followed the liberal canon for so long that becoming an adherent to a religion that seduces one to give up their God given rights, for the good of all and the glory of allah is not really as large of a step as one might think
3) She’s an idiot and should be consigned to the dung heap of history along with Nazi and other colluders like the Mitford’s, Coco Chanel, Oswald Mosley and the infamous Elams. People to whom the price of freedom was negotiable and the thought of the enslavement of the masses an aphrodisiac.
These are just some ideas. The truth is usually found somewhere in the middle.
Oh and if you’re feeling “spiritual morphine” you aren’t getting it from a good source. My God doesn’t have to seduce his followers, he wants them awake, aware and responsible for their own choices.
I vote for 56.
She’s looking for passion.
Normally I don’t chime in on these sort of things but I’ve spent allot of time reading the English papers, this has gotten very light coverage in the English press. I think grr, Right Wing Hippy Chick and Paul Unalaska make very good points. If you believe in nothing when the time is right you’ll believe anything.
There is Culture War going on in the UK and the British are being routed Political Correctness in pretty much state policy. Many people in the UK are adrift spiritually, economically, and politically. I think this woman has reached a point in her life where fun and games was simply not enough. You want something to cling to something that’s seems solid with Islam in the ascendant this seems to her a ready-made choice. With her being in Iran when this revelation happened I don’t think this was a bolt out of the blue, I think this was something she had been pondering for some time. I wish her luck ansd peace.
The topic isn’t worth much speculation. The world is filled with people with vastly different perspectives on life, including lots and lots of nuts of every variety.
More than 900 people committed mass suicide in Jonestown, following a certifiable kook. Other people believe fervantly that they have been operated on by aliens.
A handful of isolated conversions to Islam by Westeners should be expected.
A more surprising thing would be if NO women ever converted to Islam.
Could it be that many women are left very lost and confused by postmodern relativism and what it has produced: a popular culture that glamorizes pole dancers, sluts, and centerfolds ?
Granted Islam is most definitely NOT the answer to that, but people do need a moral anchor in their lives and without one, nearly anything can happen.
She said this:
“Adopting modest dress, however, is rather less troublesome than you might think. Wearing a headscarf means I’m ready to go out more quickly than before. I was blushing the first time I wore it loosely over my hair just a few weeks ago.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1325231/Why-I-love-Islam-Lauren-Booth-defiantly-explains-Muslim.html#ixzz16b4h5MId”
I have just looked up her Astrology 1967.07.22, and she has the combination of planets and aspects that befit her statement above. Venus in Virgo produces those types of people. At the time she had Saturn going over that part of her chart, made her become extremely sensitive to those experiences.
i just want this woman to live with regular muslim women for a year or so. In Afghanistan, iraq, iran etc. not fixing her hair would be the least of her worries.
She’s a farce and a disgrace to women.
I rather think she was looking for subjugation. It’s not a nice thing to think of a woman, but there you have it. I’ve known a lot of women who went out looking for bad boys. And when the current one does them wrong, they go looking for another.
It’s a way of playing out a death wish, while remaining alive to enjoy it.
My girlfriend has just, suddenly and out of the blue, broken up with me because she needs to “get back to the Baha’i Faith”. Even though Islam persecutes Baha’is mercilessly, she will defend Islam and excoriate me for criticising it. None of it makes any sense to anyone but her. So, what am I trying to say here? Go figure!
I think you are trying to say “YUPI …I would really have been sorry to keep this one around”
this whole discussion is about trying to find reason where there is none. the end.
Well, you’re right there. Every cloud has a silver lining and there’s likely a pony around, what with all this crap.
For a Baha’i your criticizing Muhammad or the Qur’an would be like my criticizing the Prophets and the Old Testament to a Christian. It sounds like you really turned her off by doing this.
Well yeah. Who knew though? I didn’t realize she was THAT Bahai or that the Bahais were the official U.N. religion. It all makes sense. To her. However, I’m way better off without her, now that the truth is out. One more flake to brush away.
Sounds like you are both better off.
Well, now that could be or then again maybe not … as the Bard of Hibbing says, “Time will tell, just who has fell and who’s been left behind. When you go your way and I go mine.”
It is true that Baha’is in Iran are being persecuted by the Iranian Government, but not all Muslim governments or followers of Islam are persecuting other religions. With regards to why your now ex-girlfriend was defending Islam in response to whatever comments you were making, is undoubtably because Baha’is believe in the oneness of religion and that all Manifestations, Moses, Budha, Krishna, Christ, Mohammad, etc. came from God to bring teachings for the time they came to earth. So to make crass remarks about any faith background might be offensive to her since she believes in the truth that all of these Messengers bring to humanity. But, Baha’is are also forbidden from judging one another for our faults (since we all have them and we are all attempting to learn how to overcome them). So, if what you were saying was that upsetting to her, I’m hoping that she tried to talk with you about it before leaving the relationship. If she didn’t then you might want to take some time to reflect on the things you said and call her in a couple of days if you feel you might be able to work something out. It sounds like the ball is mostly in your court at this point.
If one is required to be a socialist, ignore the crimes of Islam, including the persecution of Baha’is, to support the depravity that is the modern U.N. to be a good Baha’i and if one has to go along with that to be intimate with a Baha’i, she is welcome to it. My politics, conservative but actually fairly middle of the road, were very clear when we got together. I’m am not a fanatic nor in the words of the “tolerant” left, a hater. I was blindsided by a closeted whacko. Perhaps she thought I was as flakey as her and my mind was silly putty. It’s not. She has decided her loyalty is to a long dead Persian dude. End of story.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/bahai-leaders-on-trial-in-iran.html
Baha’is are not socialist and register as non-partisan in elections. And Baha’is are very aware of, and not in any way ignoring, the persecution of Baha’is in Iran. Baha’is have long continued to share with the public what is occurring there and ask for public support.
Bahais are not socialist? Well, maybe not officially but since the main thrust of politics in the world today is a reaction to “radical Islam” and any criticism of the same and leftist parties that provide cover for Islam or agreeing with any political party that opposes it is verboten, WTF is the difference? In the amazing circular reasoning of this woman, and I assume all good Bahais, it is less acceptable to criticize Islam than to be persecuted by Muslims. If her partner is less tolerable than murderers, again, she is welcome to her delusions. As are you.
Again, Baha’is are not supporting “radical” individuals from any religion that murder or persecute others. There is a difference between criticizing the actions of misguided individuals vs. criticizing an entire religion started by a Manifestation of God. Man can take the Teachings of God and create various agendas to suit their own personal purposes. Commenting on that seems more appropriate then making blanket statements about the religion in general. In the case of Islam and the reaction many Americans are having towards it, it is a shame that the entire religion and all of the people who practice that religion are being defined by the radicals such as Bin Laden, or the governments such as the Iranian government, when these groups are few and far between those who are practicing peacefully.
I don’t know what comments you made and I’m certainly not judging you for them. Just offering something to think about.
You might find these articles interesting -
This first article “provides a clarified explanation of why Baha’is do not participate in protests of any sort, or in political/social revolution movements. Even when faced with the most brutal oppressions, as Baha’is have been experiencing in Iran, Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries, they are instructed to use whatever legal resources are available to them in their country of residence. Although legal representation and due process of law is often denied, Baha’is do not engage in any activity that might be devisive in nature. They are encouraged to take action for justice and speak out against oppression utilizing whatever methods are agreeable to their government.”
http://www.examiner.com/baha-i-in-sacramento/baha-i-response-to-oppression-iran
And here is another article that is just one example of Baha’is working at a local level towards raising awareness of the unjust way Baha’is are being treated in Iran:
http://staugustine.com/living/religion/2010-10-14/bahais-ask-congress-speak-out-imprisoned-iranian-bahai-leaders
I’m not baha’i-ing any of it. My experience matches this commenter, your circular reasoning and the nonsense that all religions worship the same god, notwithstanding. Now stop proselytizing and get back to why this other nutcase of a woman would actually join the death cult of the moon god.
http://contenderministries.org/bahai/bahaidebate.php
It is against the Teachings of the Baha’i Faith to proselytize and providing an article on how Baha’is choose to support Human Rights issues is hardly proselytizing. Re: your article – the comments made are this individual person’s opinion and experiences. Many meaningful spiritual conversations are occurring between Baha’is and followers of other faith backgrounds and Baha’is approach conversations with a spirit of love and unity. It is unfortunate that you have had such poor experiences, but again this goes back to the idea of remembering the importance of not judging an entire group of people based on a few that there were issues with.
You originally veered away from the subject of this discussion board to express your frustrations over your girlfriend leaving you and ask about why she would defend Islam when the Iranian government is persecuting Baha’is. I was simply trying to offer something towards that question and my comments were meant to be helpful. But, of course, I understand if you wish to disregard them – that is your right to do so.
Take care -
This woman has obviously never experienced God’s love or being forgiven for her sins, that all people have committed. This firgiveness is possible because God’s Son Jesus Christ died for our sins
How to explain Lauren Booth’s conversion to Islam?
It’s easy.
Just check her bio:
“She is a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq and a supporter of the Stop the War Coalition; a member of Woodcraft Folk, Media Workers Against the War….
“In August 2008 she travelled to Gaza by ship from Cyprus, along with 46 other activists, to highlight the blockade of the Gaza Strip and deliver hearing aids and balloons to a deaf school in Gaza. Booth elected to remain behind in Gaza, and was subsequently refused entry into both Israel and Egypt….Booth stated that she believes the ‘situation in Gaza is….the largest concentration camp in the world today’”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Booth
And Lauren Booth said this about Islam:
“For me actually it [Islam] is an extension of socialism [!!!]—personal wealth matters less, what you give counts for more. You are really expected to care about the person in the next house and the next twenty in the street. How lovely is that?”
http://bigthink.com/ideas/24763
And there you have it. Lauren Booth started out as already socialist and pro-Arab and anti-Israel and anti-American in her politics. Conversion to Islam gave her a moral and theological basis for her existing political leanings.
Her views are the Muslim equivalent of “liberation theology”–an attempt to harmonize Christianity with Marxism, into a philosophy that makes fighting against Western capitalism into a theological program.
Maybe she just figured out how to avoid the porn-scanners and TSA gropes…?
Doubtful.
I hope she realizes that leaving Islam and becoming an Mohammad-doodlin’ apostate is not quite as easy or spiritually ‘tingly’ as the ‘cuddly conversion’ part. After all, it takes very little intellectual acumen to join a death cult [observe the blind, guttural-bleating, uneducated, inbred followers for a clue] but, maybe she’ll snag herself a whackadoodle, wife-beatin’ husband during her mid-life menopausal jihad crisis.
Good luck with that, Ma’am.
1. The West is not culturally barren.
Study the Latin and Greek classics, study the Enlightenment in detail, and you will know that this is true. Study the history of the West and the conflict with the East and its ancient, pre-Christian and pre-Islamic roots.
2. Christianity does indeed set limits on behavior. Read the catechisms of the Western and Eastern churches, read the words of the Pope and Patriarchs and then read the patristic fathers. You will get all the limits and structure you need there.
3. Understand the ways in which Christianity, Western philosophy and Islam are diametrically opposed. Even a cursory reading of history and Islamic texts should make it abundantly clear that Islam is the rule of an irrational faith, the West is the rule of reason.
One culture demands perfection.
The other demands forbearance of human frailty and structures that allow rather than forbid action.
The women who are converting are extraordinarily ignorant of their own culture– that’s why why they find it so easy to dismiss. Once one converts to Islam, the requirement is clear– they must abandon any study or concern about the culture of their birth.
“She notes that in the city of Qom “I sat down and felt this shot of spiritual morphine, just absolute bliss and joy.”
Seems to me either her panties were too tight and she had her first, ahhh…orgasim?
And it will be her last as she’ll soon find out under her “conversion”. Her new faith frowns on…pleasure and fun.
the only way people can experience joy is thru sex? Thats the problem with materialist indoctrination. There is another joy you don’t know abot. It is called piety.
Why would a a Newt convert to Catholicism?
Why does it sound like there’s a punchline and a rim-shot to come?
it is just troll speak. I’m surprised it (the troll) didn’t blame Bush.
no punch line. this one isn’t very clever.
I was just wondering if anyone knew. Can’t handle that kind of blistering socialist Marxist Leninist leftist liberalist big governmentalist inquiry eh?
lol …yeah that must be it.
i don’t know…why did you?
I know you are abut what am I?
A lot of women are drawn to traditional victim groups, which Islam now has successfully turned itself into.
Islam is the coming religious fashion. New and different and exotic.
Mary Grabar’s fear that Christian or Jewish students will be turned to Islam by fellow Muslim students is amusing. I have three kids in graduate school and all their Muslim friends in college were liberals. The religious Muslim students hang mainly with each other.
Mary Grabar will suffer a serious collision with reality when princes of the Church begin switching sides. Same profession, different brand. This Jew makes no claim of prophesy but within ten years we will see it happen. It may begin with an anomalous priest here and there but it will become commonplace thereafter.
The Muslim Levant was the cradle of Christianity where St. Paul preached and Christianity knew its greatest intellectual ferment. Yet no Christian even dreams that it might be Christian again. Meanwhile the Muslims actively work toward a wholly Islamic Europe. Islam is in sharp ascent while Christianity is plunging.
Blaming lay Christians especially Catholics for lack of faith in their churches is putting the cart before the horse. The Vatican has much to say on the subject of abortion and the sanctity of life. It faults materialism and criticizes the leadership and policies of Western nations. It makes special note of the suffering of Palestinians. But about the invasion of Christian domains by Islam and the mass evacuation of Muslim lands by Christians, the Vatican is silent.
During the ten years when Hitler reigned in Germany and fifty million died, the Vatican offered only one solitary protest that was quickly watered down and squelched when the Gestapo began arresting German priests for pedophilia. The Pope speaks out only when speaking out requires no courage.
Catholic church attendance is way down because a sinful and self-protecting Catholic clergy has forfeited its moral authority. We live in confusing and frightening times and the hunger for moral and spiritual guidance was never greater. Among Christians, only the Evangelicals are answering the call.
“The Muslim Levant was the cradle of Christianity where St. Paul preached and Christianity knew its greatest intellectual ferment.”
It wasn’t Muslim when St. Paul was preaching there. It wasn;t Muslim for about 700 years afterward. Islam didn’t exist until the year 732 Anno Domini, ace.
“Yet no Christian even dreams that it might be Christian again.”
And you know this…how? You DON’T, because some of us indeed do.
“Catholic church attendance is way down because a sinful and self-protecting Catholic clergy has forfeited its moral authority.”
You attend Mass in my diocese? I thought you said you were Jewish…
Holy Mother Church is not quite what you THINK you know, chappie. Each diocese is it’s own entity, answerable to it’s own Bishop. Some Bishops are better than others, but in your ignorance you have been sold that the failed and failing dioceses are representative of the Church as a whole. T’ain’t necessarily the case; not in the US, and not worldwide.
“Among Christians, only the Evangelicals are answering the call.”
Again, I thought you said you were Jewish…?
“The Pope speaks out only when speaking out requires no courage.”
Uh-huh…His Holiness John Paul II spoke out against Communism and they shot him in the guts for it. He also spoke out against “liberation theology” and the ordination of women and marriage for the clergy.
And His Holiness Benedict spoke out, quoting a medieval Pope about Islam and the Muslims predictably went nuts over it…but these required no courage?
As in the dioceses, different men are chosen to be the Shepherd for different challenges at different times.
Respectfully, I think that you should refrain from speaking so authoritatively about a faith that you do not share and do not understand.
It offends me.
I don’t presume to know very much at all about Judaism, and so I resist the temptation to bloviate about it much.
Nah, I think this whole event is being over-thought. The woman in question is a well-known Jew-hater and converting to Mohammedanism was the most Jew-hating thing she could think of.
Why would she convert? Well, it has been noted that a number of celebrities and those to have access to them, have managed to make a most excellent living shilling for Islam. With the right connections, you can really plump up the lean pocketbook.
I doubt is could be for any moral compass though. Consider that in Islam multiple wives, temporay wives, right hand possesions, black slave women, child sex, baby thighing, animal sex and boy rape are all legal activities for the muslim male.
Perhaps as Yvonne Ridley stated; I like my expensive car, my apartment in Soho, etc….. There are lots of petro dollars to go around for those who are inclined….and are connected.
That’s true. Also, the Saudis are pumping massive amounts of money into universities, think tanks, “charities,” and various Islamic NGOs. They can play the victim card as well as anybody, even better. Blair might be angling for a directorship.
“With the right connections, you can really plump up the lean pocketbook.”
I worked in Saudi for a couple of years and they will pay 10,000 dollars to Infidels that convert. You can imagine how profitable it can be for a celebrity.
While I was there one guy from LA converted. He was the most annoying and obnoxious person I ever met so it didn’t really concern me. It turned out that he just converted so he could buy an Iranian wife. He went to Dubai about a month after his conversion to marry her. She refused to consummate the marriage until he got her a green card, so she went back to Iran and he never saw her again. I haven’t seen him for years but doubt he’s still muslim today.
The Grand Inquisitor, as drawn by Dostoevsky, has something to say about all of this. Speaking to the returned and imprisoned Jesus Christ, he says:
“Behold what Thou didst further. And all again in the name of freedom! I tell Thee that man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born…And behold, instead of giving a firm foundation for setting the conscience of man at rest for ever, Thou didst choose all that is exceptional, vague and enigmatic; Thou didst choose what was utterly beyond the strength of men, acting as though Thou didst not love them at all- Thou who didst come to give Thy life for them! Instead of taking possession of men’s freedom, Thou didst increase it, and burdened the spiritual kingdom of mankind with its sufferings for ever. Thou didst desire man’s free love, that he should follow Thee freely, enticed and taken captive by Thee. In place of the rigid ancient law, man must hereafter with free heart decide for himself what is good and what is evil, having only Thy image before him as his guide. But didst Thou not know that he would at last reject even Thy image and Thy truth, if he is weighed down with the fearful burden of free choice?”
“…and they will lay their freedom at our feet and say, make us your slaves, but feed us.”
Here you go: “In the past my attempts to give up alcohol have come to nothing; since my conversion I can’t even imagine drinking again.” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/03/lauren-booth-conversion-to-islam?intcmp=239)
She could have joined a convent. But they are just too politically incorrect these days. What a moron.
I think she believes that she can “cherry pick” Islam. When she discovers that it’s all or nothing you’ll see a remarkable and sudden change of mind. Now she has a problem. You can convert to Islam, you just can’t un-convert. Being a high profile convert she may be able to get away with it but for the sake of the purity of Islam as well as my own self satisfaction of seeing her forced to submit I hope not. Maybe she’s never heard of Ayaan Hirisi Ali. Too bad, she may have had another “epiphany” that could potentially save her life.
Compare her conversion to the conversion of Magdi Allam to Christianity. One is a fly-by-night confused emotional act. The other a life-long gradual realization that the light from the West really comes from Christ and that Islam is nothing but barbaric darkness.
Don’t even try to understand. Think of the women who befriend, marry convicted felons who are incarcerated. A little time will pass, she will be assaulted and plead to her country to rescue her. Kind of like the naive morons that go hiking along dictators boarders.
This shows that some people do not want to think for themselves and will follow anything. Just remember Jones Town. Why anyone would make themselves subject to the rules of another man or woman is beyond me. The quran is just babbling`s of a mad man.
Why would a female convert to Islam. Masochism? Probably the same reason the ding bats hook up with killers on death row as pen pals, sending nude pictures of themselves, and they’re not even blondes.
Eve felt the same shot of spiritual morphine when her eyes were opened. She raised a man who took the fruit of the (cursed) earth and offered it as a sacrifice to God as works. It produced a murderer as opposed to the son who hung with his father and understood that sacrifice, a life laid down was acceptable to God.
I find it interesting that people still stumble over the 6 day thing when there is Biblical evidence that there was perhaps billions and billions of years between Gen. 1.1 and 1.2. But I digress. A previous poster alluded to the fact that no religion except Christianity deals with a person’s past. What poverty it is to ignore it.
What difference does it make what Religion her “father” has for her. We were all brought under the spear of the Devil’s ownership but it was only Jesus who stepped into the marketplace and said “I’ll buy that one…” And it was with his own blood. He told us to mentally put it together, faith comes.
Why would a woman convert to Islam? What could she find there that she couldn’t find under liberty?
She could have found some of it under liberty within the structure of a personal code of honor. She could have found all of it within Christianity within the structure and freedom of the mind of Christ. It is because she rejected both that she walked out beyond to fill the void.
When a person walks out beyond the true there is nothing, an emptyness that something has to fill. She filled it with Islam. It is her decision; she had go negative to the true to accept the false. It isn’t Christ that has failed, it is rejection of the very freedom that he offers that is the failure.
As to the failure of many Christian churches (not all):
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but, after their own lusts, shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned to fables.
Many churches are catering to the itching ears syndrome, but Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.
Thanks for the article, I enjoyed reading it and the comments.
When she wants to revert to the non-Islamic condition all she has to do is invoke Kithman. The Muslims invented this institutinal form of lying to hide their true religious beliefs from Infidels. Maybe she’s already done so and is still a practicing Christian in her heart.
Apparently Lauren Booth cannot make her own decisions about rejecting pressure and “fads”, so she’s decided to let Islam do it for her. I take that as a character weakness. It’s also possible that by choosing Islam, she’s merely yielded to yet another “fad”. Only this one has serious consequences.
Converting to Islam will give them a personal relationship with a God who loves them and takes care of them, in place of the aimless universe of the modern world where life is meaningless.
Instead of dressing to be a sex object, they dress to please God.
Even eating can be a way to praise the creator of life.
They also gain a community of believers who will welcome them to the fold, and help them feel loved and accepted, instead of the back biting and competitive consurmerism of the modern world.
True, she could have found the same by converting to Christianity, but it says a lot about the state of British Christianity that she didn’t.
I wouldn’t want to be a woman or a donkey in any muslim country. but if it had to be one of the two make me a donkey …they get better treatment.
Yeah, it says a lot about British Christianity and British intellectual dishonesty as well. The same liberal elites who have made a career out of making Christians out to be mindless dolts, and who have worked tireless to remove any influence from the public, are now genuflecting to Islam like attendees at a Jim Jones Kool-Aid party. Your hypocrisy is noted.
There is too much hate in this discussion. Your supposed to be educated openmended people. Why so much arrogance? The main reason I believe people find Islam attractive is because Islam has authenticity which is hard to find in christianity. It is also not only religion but a way of life. Therefore alternative to the materialism life style we embrace and struggle with.
are you serious? islam is a joke. …it is the least authentic of the man made religions.
verily you have not studied the subject.
“The main reason I believe people find Islam attractive is because Islam has authenticity which is hard to find in christianity.”
Just out of curiosity, what is it that you find “authentic” about Islam that you do not find in Christianity?
Be specific please…the point I’m trying to ascertain is if you have bothered to look.
“It is also not only religion but a way of life.”
And Catholicism is not? Judaism is not? Mormonism and Buddhism are not?
This sentence leads me to believe that you have indeed stepped over flowers in order to pluck at nettles.
It is the kind of thing that only a fool would say.
“There is too much hate in this discussion. Your supposed to be educated openmended people. Why so much arrogance? ”
Beam from thine own eye rather than the mote from thy naighbor’s…and all that.
It would seem that your list of Islamic “authenticity” as opposed to Christian “inauthenticity” isn’t long enough to merit a reply to my challenge, huh?
It is of little matter to me, just as long as you hopefully have been given cause to critically examine your positions on what you wrote above.
mow….I hope you will take the time to re-read what you wrote!
What parts of “Christianity” is it you believe is has less “authenticity” than does Islam? [Who] “authenticated” Islam in your mind?
You speak to “materialism” in you commenting. Does not your freedoms as an American or European, or other westernized country, give [you] the opportunity or even the right to collect or [reject] as much materialism as you chose? I think most can direct you to great [personal] wealth and materialism inside the “religion” of Islam. Only difference may be that decendency and approval of a theocracy often times allows such individual wealth and materialism over others.
Islam is an “alternative to the materialism”?
You can’t be serious! Have you seen the thousands of prince’s and princess’s palaces littered all over Saudi Arabia. The greed and opulence in the UAE.
Or check out Prince Jefri of Brunei, With his fleet of private planes, including a Boeing 747 allegedly converted to carry polo ponies, million-dollar shopping sprees and a luxurious yacht called Tits (complete with the tastefully named tenders Nipple One and Nipple Two).
Are those the spiritual manifestations of Islam.
Islam is an “alternative to the materialism”?
You can’t be serious! Have you seen the thousands of prince’s and princess’s palaces littered all over Saudi Arabia. The greed and opulence in the UAE.
Or check out Prince Jefri of Brunei, With his fleet of private planes, including a Boeing 747 allegedly converted to carry polo ponies, million-dollar shopping sprees and a luxurious yacht called Tits (complete with the tastefully named tenders Nipple One and Nipple Two).
Are those the spiritual manifestations of Islam.
You’re kidding, right? Or are you referring to the authenticity of perhaps being stoned to death for adultery even if you are innocent. Islam is barbaric, repressive, regressive and repulsive. Wake up!
Too much hate? Yeah, materialism is a struggle, and I’m sure having 72 virgins waiting in heaven helps with the authenticity. Hate can also spell heat, as in hot stuff, just like god can spell dog, and Mohammed can mean chester the molester: it’s good to be open minded. I’m feeling so multicultural I think I’ll run down to Chan’s and have a double order of pork pot stickers and a barbecued turkey tail.
I’ve never understood the attraction of “72 virgins.” Wouldn’t you think that you’d want at least ONE woman who knew what she was doing?
they also fail to tell the “martyrs” that if you have lived poorly and made bad decisions those 72 “virgins” will all want you to go to the infidel mall with them— one at a time– and they will never put out; just nag and needle
When one believes in nothing….stands for nothing….they will fall for anything!
Converting to Islam is like checking into the Hotel California:
“You can check in any time you like, but you can NEVER leave.”
Kevin B and TimTang:
To try to defend the Bible or a belief in the absolute in terms of scientific facts currently available is going onto “baited ground” in my opinion. Rather like the situation of those trying to understand the New Deal as a genuine economic policy for the salvation of America, instead of a technique for enslaving America (http://mises.org/daily/2726).
Which is why I prefer to ask: Can order occur spontaneously in randomness? Because that is how I got to where I am in terms of belief.
John B, the question, “Can order occur spontaneously in randomness?” is hard to understand. By “spontaneously” what is the time interval implied, because an evolutionists might be correct to call this a straw-man fallacy depending on your definition? However, I am assuming you are asking this rhetorical question because you think it implies the negative, based on it’s abruptness and unsympathetic tone. I’m fine with that, but given that you seem to be asking what you believe to be is an effective rhetorical question which debunks Evolution my question to you is how do you like it that America’s education system DOES teach Evolution? This is a hard thing to explain, because I don’t think your question is very useful, but nevertheless it does indicate a position in general towards Evolutionary thinking that you have.
So, I guess my question better put is, If that is how you perceive Evolution – order arising from randomness – how do you like it that it is taught as truth to millions of impressionable kids in America? And for those kids who are taught that the Bible is true, is this not ridiculing their religious beliefs in a public arena?
If anyone wants a nice simple answer as to why Christianity is seemingly failing in America, the West, all you have to do is observe that Evolution is being taught as true in public schools.
A young Norwegian girl converted to Islam. I read that in the paper so it must have been a celebrity of some kind but that has sliped my memory. She was happy to have found her right religion, she said, now she was looking forward to find out what this religion was all about!
“There was a young lady of Niger who went in the woods with a tigre ………..”
The one reason to become Muslim is that you believe that there is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus – the God who revealed Torah to the Jews, and that Muhammad was the Messenger of God who appeared to the ignorant tribes of Arabia, and confirmed the former scriptures. That’s it.
Either you believe that a Faith is divine in origin, or you don’t. All that other stuff is irrelevant.
One can believe in the validity of Moses and Jesus and not be fanatic.
One can believe in the validity of the mission of Muhammad and not be fanatic. One can not believe anything, and not be fanatic in their disbelief.
This statement, “A high-profile conversion begs the question: what are these women seeking that they could not find under liberty?” is actually committing a begging-the-question epithet as well. It’s hidden assumption is that liberty was lacking in some way to cause the conversion. Was liberty indeed lacking? Didn’t the convert in question say she merely received a tingly sensation?
“Didn’t the convert in question say she merely received a tingly sensation?”
Not to belittle her conversion, but this IS a valid point. Perhaps she only experienced the first orgasm of her life and it happened to be while she was in the Iranian city of Qom.
Perhaps had she had the same sensation while sitting in a fire engine she would have instead joined her local Volunteer Fire Department.
Please don’t take this woman seriously. She is a no talent, no achievement exploiter of her connection to Tony Blair through her half sister. Now that Tony and Cheri are out of the media spotlight she had to find as new way to grab headlines.
It also says husbands are to die for their wives as Christ died for his Church. So who exactly is asked to make the biggest sacrifice? I LOVE the Catholic Faith. I will pray for Lauren. LORD HAVE MERCY>
What a dumb broad, how dumb can she be converting to islam, WTF!!!!!. I understand and agree with many points made on this article this poor woman was looking to fill her vacous heart. She drank from the fetid stream of fecal matter that the world provides for too long. What she lacked was that unique relationship with Jesus christ, Lord and Savior of all. What she needed is to drink from that eternal stream that comes from our Lord Jesus Christ. True Christianity exists, people need to drop their prejudices and look into history. islam is all about being a slave to a cruel and unmerciful god, there is no mercy and forgiveness in islam. Christianity is all about being inheritors of the kingdom of GOD the father. In other words, we are adopted sons and daughters of GOD. In Christianity, mercy and forgiveness abounds where there is sin.
Author: “Islam may be violent and harsh, but it does prescribe moral parameters.” There are NO moral parameters to Islam’s many victims! The women converts to Islam have a moral responsibility to speak out for so many victims. Silence is not an option. Silence is consent. The following is only one example of the suffering perpetrated in the name of Islam and Islam’s god:
Egypt Kidnaps Christians
The world is shamefully silent over the Egyptian government and Saudi Arabia involvement in the kidnapping of Christian Egyptian girls in Egypt. Kidnapped Christian female children are violently converted to Islam and forcibly married/raped to adult Muslim males.
Protecting Islam is considered more important by Western mainstream media and government leaders than protecting the lives of desperate, defenseless innocent children!
Assyrian International News Agency
8-11-2009
Abduction and Forced Islamization of Christian Coptic Girls Continues in Egypt
(AINA) — The systematic abduction and forced Islamization of Coptic minor girls in Egypt is a frequent, dangerous and a rapidly escalating phenomenon. Coptic Pope Shenouda III, December 17th, 1976: “there is pressure being practiced to convert Coptic girls to embrace Islam and marry them under terror to Muslim husbands” and demanded that the abducted girls be brought back to their families.
Abductions are done in cooperation between Saudi-funded associations and the Egyptian State Security.
…in the majority of cases, the State Security is the one who masterminds the kidnapping plans.”
http://www.aina.org/news/20090811125748.htm
The U.S. gifts Egypt with 2.2 billion dollars every year.
‘He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.’ Bible, Exodus 21:16
Saudi authorities shred all Bibles found on anyone at the airport in Saudi Arabia. Bibles that contain the unchangeable laws of G-D.
Tony Blair’s sister in law and the other female converts should be grateful that they converted to Islam voluntarily. So many others were NOT given that choice.
A reminder to Tony Blair’s sister-in-law and the other excited converts. The punishment for leaving Islam is death.
Masochism.
Having studied Arabic at the Defense Language Institute many years ago, I must say that what we learned of Arabic culture and religion SHOULD have made this woman run screaming into the night to get OUT of Islam…and at least one of our instructors was a devout Muslim who even became ill from the fasting demanded during Ramadan. The various surahs, when read literally, would make one believe that this is a religion of maniacs, imbued with an overweening desire to militarily conquer the whole world. Unlike the Biblical parables, the stories told in the surahs ARE to be taken literally and should scare the beejeebers out of anyone with even a minimal desire for freedom and liberty…particularly a woman.
People convert to Islam from the same causes that they convert to other religions. There’s no reason to think Islam is factual. But there’s no reason to think Christianity is, either. Explanations of why people believe are psychological and cultural.
Look, sometimes bi+ches just like being slapped around and told what to do.
why? How about no body scans and no enhanced pat downs at the airport? That’s enough to for me to make my wife dress up in garb just to protect her. Heck, I might don a veil too!
After going through all the comments I found that all the readers except few, that they are more emotional and less rationale. They are commenting more on Muslims rather Islam. Lauren Booth has accepted Islam and not the Muslims. She was in Iran and not in Saudi Arabia. Iran is nearest most to Islam. While the Gulf States have crafted their own luxurious and brutal Islam. Lauren has embraced real Islam.
Most of the commentators have flu of Islamophobia, so they have panicked in their reactions. If they study Shia Islam ( this term is used to separate it from Wahahbi Islam) they will find what Lauren Booth has found, and if they are looking at Gulf Islam, then, they are near to reality of the Muslims society they are fearing about.
Shia Islam is of Ahlul Bayt, the true guardian of the revelations of the words of God. It is very simple, logical, rational and nothing without reason. I hope, the those who search for truth will end up over here.
Dear #111. Razi Rizvi and Ms. Booth,
As proponents of Islam:
1) Do you think mass murder, human enslavement, human trafficking, serial rape, sexual bondage & sex slavery, child rape, sadistic torture, cutting the heads, and and feet off of living human beings, perfidious lying, stealing and looting other peoples property, engaging in violent acts of terror and mass genocide are examples of higher human virtue and morality, or are they acts of evil?
2) Do you know that your ‘holy prophet’ of Islam, Muhammed, personally did each and every one of those acts?
3) Do you think Muhammed, in perpetrating these acts, was representative of higher human virtue and morality, or was he evil?
The answers to these questions will tell us all we need to know about the depth of Ms. Booth’s conversion to #111. Razi Rizvi’s ‘religion’ of Islam.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Anonymous,
All those untrue things you have said about the Prophet Mohammed (Peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) May I ask what is the source of that wrong information’s you are trying to spread? Just to bring you in your senses that you are talking about someone whom you do not know and what ever he did he did those 4000yrs ago and I am sure that you have not studied anything about him coz if you did then you wont be saying anything as such about him.
Whenever the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) went to war, he ordered his tropes to not to humiliate women and not to kill them and their children and elderly people and even not to cut down trees. So, whatever you said about him is completely untrue.
Please do not spread hate, I advise you to Love more and hate less. The peaceful religion of Islam teaches Muslims to respect and be tolerant to other religions and true Muslims do that with all their heart.
May God guide you and all of us in the direction of peace and harmony.
Thanks for reading.
Dear ‘Sagar’,
The evil acts attributed to Muhammed in my commentary come straight from the Koran, Ahadith and Sirah Rasul Allah, and you know it.
And your barbarian prince committed these evils 1,400 years ago, not 4000.
Concerning Muhammed killing women & children, please explain this:
Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa’b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.”
Book 019, Number 4322:
It is narrated by Sa’b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids. He said: “They are from them.”
Book 019, Number 4323:
Sa’b b. Jaththama has narrated that the Prophet (may peace be upon him) asked: What about the children of polytheists killed by the cavalry during the night raid? He said: “They are from them.”
MUHAMMED…..THE ESSENCE OF PURE EVIL!!
The Infidel Alliance,
you are right about the 1400yrs but I have no Idea or even hard of any book as such which you have mentioned. The only true Hadith we believe after the Holly “Quran” is called ” Sahi AlBukhari” and not anyother books those have been written against the Prophet Mohammed(PBUH). Please read this hadith and you will know the truth about the Prophet of all mankind.
God Guid us All
Dear Mr. Anonymous…..You are attributing the qualities of Bush, Obama, Sarkozy, Netanyahoo, Arial Sharon, Tony Blair to our Holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his holy progeny) who was the mercy for the mankind. Study his immaculate life without prejudice, don’t give heed to false and zionist propoganda. You talk about the verse of holy Qur’an and qoute some irrelevant hadith. (sic). I think you people could not digest the Laren Booth’s home coming to Islam.
Who is mass the murderer? Pickup today’s newspaper read the news or open any news channel see the news. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Palestine…..The occupiers are the murderers. Gauntanoma Bay is not in a Muslim country. But, we do not talk about the religion of these occupiers and killers. The west is under the deep influence of the Mass Media. Check for example this assessment you would find the discrimination on reporting. http://www.mumbaishianews.com/2010/10/how-media-portrays-muslims.html
Whatever her reasons for converting to Islam, I find it interesting that the Cambridge Union chose Lauren Booth to argue the affirmative in a debate on the proposition: “The House Believes that Israel is a rogue state”.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/11/027667.php
And the Cambridge Union was very offended by offensive language in a reported conversation with Ms. Booth. Political correctness or sensitivity toward Islam? You decide.
http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/issue/news/union-debate-uproar/
Stupid is as stupid does. She had an unhappy childhood and Cherie got all the brains! Wait until she is wife no 4 of some dirty hoary goat abuser in Shiitistan. She should read Phyllis Chesler who saw the light.
Watching a late night political program here in the UK, in which Lauren was given her 5mins, it was interesting to note that not once did she actually speak of her conversion in terms of religion. What she did say was highly revealing; it was all about ‘men’ and ‘respect’.
Elsewhere I read that one of her reasons was to make a point to her brother-in-law, Tony Blair – yet another male-focused rationale.
Other than this banging on about men, the impression I formed when watching this program was that Lauren was part of the whole poster campaign currently trying to convince people that women are equal in Islam – since that was the main thrust of her comments. That she is involved with Press TV didn’t do anything to allay my suspicions. Again – not a single reference to Allah, the faith, the beliefs, the practices….just an insight into Lauren’s issues surrounding womens’ ‘struggle’ with men.
As soon as everyone realizes there is no god as science and common sense prove daily the world will be a much better place. Till then it will remain the cesspool of a god with split personalities…..god today, allah tomorrow muhammad yesterday…ohh then theres that Christ person….
Hi there everyone.
I would first like to welcome our sister in Islam the one who have chosen to be on the right path. Now, almost every one of you, have acted and mentioned so many untrue things about the peaceful religion of ISLAM, tell me how much you have read about this peaceful religion? How much do you know about it? Have you studied it or have you even studied the religion that you follow? Do any of you who have posted badly about this peaceful religion visits churches or temple as regularly as you visit night clubs?
One of you said that a Muslim woman does not live in luxury. Well, that depends upon the financial condition of that particular family; therefore, you can not generalize it. It makes me laugh only to know that you guys have very little knowledge of the rights, and luxury they have, a kind of luxury that even the high profile people of your countries would not have experience of, so how would you know about the true meaning of luxury, most of you spend your life wondering in jungle, desert and mountains, living in a portable cabins and questioning the luxury for women in Islam.
Islam is a peaceful religion, and anyone has the right to chose his/her religion so why all of you who sounds to be human rights protectors have started talking badly about her? Leave her alone to whatever she wants to believe or follow.
You lie. Religion of Peace? I’m not religious but I do believe this. By your fruit ye shall be known. Why don’t you debate this guy instead. You could be $50,000.00 richer. Especially, be sure to read the (peaceful) comments from muslims. Proof is in the pudding.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm
Our friend ‘Sagar’ says:
“Islam is a peaceful religion, and anyone has the right to chose his/her religion”
Our friend ‘Sagar’s’ holy prophet Muhammed says:
Bukhari (52:260) – “…The Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
Bukhari (83:37) – “Allah’s Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate.”
Bukhari (84:57) – “In the words of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”
Bukhari (89:271) – A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to “the verdict of Allah and his apostle.”
Firstly lets look at christianity (the old testament should also be followed by christians as Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17-18 “Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: ‘The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you MUST OBEY THEM AND DO EVERYTHING THEY TELL YOU. But do not do what they do, for they do NOT PRACTICE what they preach.” (Matthew 23:1-3)”
From this we see Jesus says follow the Old testament, and the law of Moses.
Old Testament:
Deuteronomy 17:3-5 “And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must STONE such one with stones and such one must DIE.”
2 Chronicles 15:13 “All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman
New Testament
Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be PUT TO DEATH.’
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’
6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”
Romans 1: 20-32 – Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
The Last and Final Testament ( The Quran)
The Quran says “there is no compulsion in religion” the quran also say in surah kaafiroon “to you is your religion to me is mine”.
The indigenous, conquered people of Egypt, Christians, are living in the garbage. But there are no protests from the followers of the “peaceful” religion of Islam.
New Documentary on Muslim Kidnapping and Humiliation of Christian Copts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5TJ962yi7w&feature=player_embedded
In France, non-Muslims suffer daily threats and violence from Muslim immigrants, followers of the “peaceful” religion of Islam.
Muslims vs. French School System
by Soeren Kern
November 24, 2010
The secular nature of France’s public education system is being increasingly undermined by religious demands from Muslim pupils and parents, according to a new report drafted by the French government. The report says that teachers in schools with a high proportion of Muslim children are being threatened on an almost daily basis by Muslims who object to courses about the Holocaust, the Crusades or evolution, and who demand halal meals and “reject French culture and its values.”
During Ramadan, some Muslim students harass others who do not observe the annual daytime fast, the report says. Boys who identify themselves as Muslims and reject French values harass girls who do well in class as “collaborators” with the “dirty French.”
Teachers often are forced to relent and give up on lessons out of fear: their insistence on following the contents of lessons and offering counter-arguments regularly leads to threats and violence from children who repeat their beliefs in a dogmatic manner that excludes any possibility of discussion. This same spirit of rebellion, according to the report, hinders efforts to impose discipline in general.
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1678/muslims-vs-french-school-system
Hi Ms. Linda,
If, the indigenous, conquered people of Egypt, Christians, have chosen to live in the garbage? How is Peaceful religion of Islam to be blame for that? A true Muslim will never force anyone from any other religion to follow his religion or use bad word or treat others bad specially during fasting. Coz, if he/she does so then their fast will not be valid. The peaceful religion of Islam says that you must not take your meal without asking your neighbour whether they have taken their meal, regardless of their religion.
There are lot more about Peaceful religion of Islam, and if an individual or a group of people do something that is not right and they happened to be Muslim! Then the peaceful religion of Islam should not be blame for their bad deeds. People can be good or bad not a religion, I request you guys to refrain yourself from blaming the Peaceful religion of Islam.
If you are a true truth seeker, then please study Peaceful religion of Islam before commenting badly or spreading wrong deeds of some people and connecting with it or any other religion for that matter.
Thanks for reading.
what are these women seeking that they could not find under liberty?
They’re seeking a safe haven for their anti-semitism. You know, they want to feel comfortable and safe while spewing their Jew-hatred.
Cherie Blair and her sister come from an Irish nationalist family who moved to the mainland. People with that background are often very hostile to the majority culture. A lot of white converts have similar backgrounds where they have one reason or another for being hostile to their nominal in-group. For the most part they’ll be the same kind of people who used to join revolutionary marxist groups.
Why you guys so devastated with her conversion. Oh, I forgot that no white person should accept Islam. It is for the poor Middle easterns, Asians and Africans. White people are too good to be Islam. I smell too much arrogance in this! Get over hate, arogance, fear and accept the fact that some other nations might have things that some of us like!
#120 mo
Non-Muslims are ALL races. ALL colors. NOT all white as you try to deceptively claim!
What do non-Muslims like? We love G-D, Creator of the Universe.
We love G-D’s Laws given to PROTECT innocents, as:
YOU SHALL NOT MURDER
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness (lie)
We like that G-D cares deeply for humanity. G-D is our Hero!
We like that G-D’s requirement for ALL humanity is KINDNESS:
Bible, Micah 6:8
And what does the L-RD require of you but to do justice, to love kindness and to walk humbly with your G-D.
It raises the question, it does not weaken the question by presuming the answer. It does not “begger” the question. “Begging the question”, is committed “when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof.
In muslim countries you can arrange a “temporary” marriage by paying a fee to the imam arranger. The amount depending on the length of time you want the “marriage’. In our corrupt west we call that prostitition.
Why, for the same reason women marry death row murderers, or stay in battered relationships. It stems from an inability or unwillingness to recognize evil when it hides behind a façade of “beauty”. Why, because one lacks the courage to take responsibility for the decisions one makes. Why, they are invertebrates and lacking in character. Have seen glimpses of the latter in the mirror but have not stepped into the abyss. Experienced the bliss at age 6, as an adult came to define that moment as the perfect day and a connectedness or oneness with the universe. As an adult, I experienced the joy after the sacrament of reconciliation; I think my feet were not touching the ground at least until I realized they were not. I used to admire Islam because its adherents incorporated their faith in their entire life not just on their Sabbath. Now realize that Muslims are like the Pharisees and some Christians, it is all about works and appearance for the other members to see. Christianity offers bliss if one has faith and accepts the gift of grace. So there is no need to look for bliss and perfection in the secular world.
There is no mention that this woman has been an embarassment and plague on the UK for years. She is mentally unstable. She traveled to Gaza and was shocked when she saw stores with fully stock shelves. She claimed that Israeli border guards proposed assasinating Tony Blair (who just happened to be her bro in law) in casual conversation as a solution for the entire Mideast conflict. She is deranged and like most converts to Islam (convicts, rappers, ex-atheletes – most of whom drink and eat pork, among other things), they can have her.
no one has mentioned that her alcoholism is most likley the over riding factor in this decision..
coming OUT of that, of course, she would be grateful to those who helped free her from addiction
but the irony – like many alcoholics (dry drunks) she has not done the work freedom requires
INSTEAD
she has merly exchanged one form of slavery (to a bottle) for another (submission to ISLAM)
and of course she will be protected from her former master by her newest master-coming off her uncured alcoholism what is easier than being told what to do- controlled- no decisions are required of MUSLIMAS, no responsibilites other than ritual
same as drinking – she exchanged rituals