Why I Called George Zimmerman a Murderer, and Why I Was Wrong
On March 17, I thought I had it all figured out. I wrote a post on my blog in which I pronounced America’s most famous neighborhood watch captain guilty:
Martin, a wispy 17-year-old-black teen, was walking to the home he was staying in after going to the convenience store for a bag of candy and a Coke. George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, stalked Martin from his car, and then well, you can read the rest.
It seems self-evident from the 911 tapes that he was psyching himself up to justify a confrontation. Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by leaving his vehicle. He then asks us to believe — absent any living witness to conflict with him — that a teen some 100 lbs. lighter than him started a fight, and that Zimmerman “had” to shoot the kid in self-defense. Does anyone but Zimmerman’s father — and an apparently incompetent Sanford PD — buy Zimmerman’s claim this was a justifiable case of self-defense?
I’ll admit that I do not know the idiosyncrasies of Florida law, but if an armed person initiates a conflict, then uses that conflict as an excuse to draw his weapon and kill the person he confronted, that sounds a lot like murder in my book. No wonder Martin’s parents are furious that the Sanford PD hasn’t filed charges against Zimmerman.
In light of the just released 911 tapes, which suggest Martin plead for his life before Zimmerman fired a second, killing shot, both Zimmerman and the Sanford PD better prepare for very expensive civil rights cases, and hope that a vigilante doesn’t act to correct a perceived injustice as some have already threatened.
How naive that post now seems. The narrative created by the media at that time was one of an innocent life taken for no reason at all, by a much older, heavier, and racist man itching for a confrontation.
That was before we found out there was only one gunshot and no coup de grâce. That was before we found out that George Zimmerman had not deluged the local police with 46 paranoid 911 calls in one year, but 46 calls over a period of eight years, which isn’t unreasonable for a community watch volunteer. The media had either lied about how often he called, or purposefully compressed the timeline.
That was before we learned that Zimmerman didn’t know Martin’s race when he made the call, and that race didn’t play a roll in any of the 911 calls the local police had on file.
That was before we discovered that George Zimmerman wasn’t the 240-plus pound bruiser in the five-year-old picture the media used as much as possible, but was listed at a much smaller 170 pounds by none other than the New York Times. That’s a nominal 20 pounds heavier than a teen that stood four inches over him.
That was before we found out that two eyewitnesses placed Martin on top of Zimmerman as the aggressor, and that at least one of them claims it was Zimmerman crying for help.
That was before ABC News attempted to claim police surveillance video disproved Zimmerman’s claim of being injured in what may have been a purposeful deception. The very same news organization was forced to later admit the presence of two lacerations on the back of George Zimmerman’s skull consistent with his claim of self-defense. In the end, details of the beating Zimmerman suffered at Trayvon Martin’s hands were only given a brief mention in the local news.
That was before NBC News was forced to fire a senior producer for selectively editing audio of Zimmerman’s 911 call in a deliberate effort to make him sound racist.
And of course, almost no one knows that on the night he took Trayvon Martin’s life, George Zimmerman willingly consented to take a voice stress analyzer test, a kind of lie detector test used by the Sanford police. He passed it.
The narrative has changed in the wake of new details, eyewitnesses, and embarrassing retreats. The actual story may in fact have been a textbook example of the proper use of deadly force.
The measure of a man-or a woman-is their ability to admit their mistakes, thus issuing a sincere mea culpa. But this should NOT be confused with the ‘I’m sorry’ offered up by many public personas, in their disingenuous attempts to lie/obfuscate their way out of their misconduct!
Good to know that some are capable of admitting their mistakes, but just because they were wrong.
Honestly, this whole thing is crazy. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon when the boy did not have a weapon period. He should have not been killed. If Zimmerman felt his life was in “danger”, then he should have in the least shot Trayvon in the leg, nothing life threatening. The boy didn’t have to lose his life. Zimmerman is a punk, a racist punk. I don’t care about the media, the color, a kids life was taken for no reason at all. Justice for Trayvon!!! Period!! I hope Zimmerman gets what he deserves, because if it was anyone else, they would have a trial and would be found guilty for murder. Self defense? I think not!! Of course the media makes everything bigger than it really is. But I want justice for this boy who no longer has a chance at life..I have a teen age boy and if this happened to mine and that person wasn’t arrested for shooting for no reason, I would definitely want justice. Who wouldn’t? Black, white, asian..it doesn’t matter. Trayvon should have not been killed. We do know that if you want to get away with killing someone, move to Florida…Casey Anthony..Trayvon M..there is no way in hell I would want to live there…
Martin PUNCHED Zimmerman in the FACE dude. Martin was BIGGER than Zimmerman (taller) and, by all eyewitness accounts, had Zimmerman PINNED to the ground. That is why Zimmerman had grass stains on his back and a bloody nose. Stop this ridiculous lynching of this poor guy. Although he probably should not have been following him so obviously, I have done the same thing–it is to give the police an accurate location, so when they get there, they will be able to find him He should have never left his car though. It is a total tragedy, but Zimmerman is not a murderer.
Your ignorance or the Self Defense/Use of Deadly Force laws is evident, as is your lack of knowledge on wound ballistics. If Zimmerman and done what you suggest and shot him in the leg, he could have hit the major artery and the kid would have bled out in less than 17 seconds…would you still want him tried for murder for attempting to maim as you would have. I suspect, given the sketchy details, that Zimmerman did not have an opportunity to select his target, but was firing in self defense. You “legally” pull a weapon to kill – in self defense of your own life, the life of another, or prevent grievous bodily harm. To do so for any other reason is more often than not, an illegal act.
Rese, Please don’t 2nd guess when it’s apparent neither you or I know the exact situation and what was evolving from the initial encounter. I really doubt you’ve ever had a incident where a younger quicker individual was trying to pound you into the ground. Your assertion that in this particular situation Mr. Zimmerman should have shot Martin in the leg is ridiculous. Why didn’t you just insist that he shoot an apple off of Martins head with a bow n arrow while you’re along that fanciful line. I could go on but it’s apparent you don’t choose to think. Maybe Zimmerman is guilty maybe not but I’ll leave that to a jury and I trust that if you were in Zimmermans shoes you’d want and deserve that respect. I really don’t care if the jury is all white or all black or all Latino; I trust them ! But that’s based on my jury experience , can you tell me how many times you volunteered and showed up for jury duty ? I won’t hold my breath waiting for you. You ask alot n give little; am I right ?
Your grasp of the rule of lawful force are strictly Hollywood (shoot him in the leg). Shut you pie-hole until you learn the law and get rid of the adolescent Hollywood perspective.
You’ve decided what you believe before you have the facts. You are reacting out of emotion, not logical thinking. And you are using black and white thinking. All of those are called “faulty thinking”. They lead to making mistakes, as it seems very likely you are doing here.
Also, if I am going to pull a gun on someone, it’s not going to be to wound them. There is no legal permission for me to display or use a gun in order to wound someone, and if I do, I still run the risk of killing them and if that does not happen, guess what? I get sued by the criminal.
No, I’m going to obey the law and withhold drawing my weapon until I have absolutely no other choice and I am in genuine fear for my life, and at that point, if my display of being armed does not stop the attack, I am going to stop the attack with my weapon. If it’s my life or the attackers, I am going to do everything I legally can to go home that night alive.
This sounds suspiciously like what Zimmerman seems to have done, from every informed report I have read. **Only when Martin saw his gun and went for it did he try to use it.** In other words, only when he absolutely had no other recourse, and the law was now compelling him to safeguard the weapon he had been carrying concealed up to that point, for the safety of those around him (because it is a concealed weapons carrier’s lawful responsibility to be in safe and responsible control of his or her weapon at all times), did he elect to use it.
It sounds to me, as if he did exactly what he was supposed to do. It sounds to me like if he had not done what he did, Martin would have killed him with his own gun, then stolen it and fled. And we’d have another armed criminal on the loose.
Now I don’t think it was smart for Zimmerman to have gotten out of his car… but once he did… the rest seems very obviously to have been Martin’s doing. Zimmerman, from what I can tell, should be considered a textbook case of what should have been done… minus the getting out of the car thing, which was just stupid on his part, and very likely would have prevented all of this in the first place.
you are wrong.
Damn, I’m sure glad we have level-headed people like you who were actually at the scene and know exactly what happened. I mean, you must have been there, otherwise you wouldn’t be so certain as to the events which took place, what was going through Zimmerman’s mind, and that – no matter what the truth might be – Trayvon was just a poor, ex-slave being racially profiled.
For the record, you watch WAY too much television. Only on TV do they shoot for the leg. In a confrontation such as this, you aim for the center of the chest and don’t stop firing until you are certain your target has been eliminated.
the story here is not what happened; we know what happened – Trayvon Martin was shot and killed. The real story is what will happen when he is found not guilty. How will this verdict be dealt with by those ignorant savages who only want revenge.
Concerning “shoot him in the leg” –
Use of a handgun in self-defense is always considered to be use of deadly force. Thus to use deadly force with the specific intention that it not be deadly is contradictory. If deadly force is justified, then you use deadly force. If it is not justified then you do not use deadly force. It’s one way or the other.
To use deadly force and then say to the police “I only shot him in the leg in order to make sure that he wasn’t killed” is in effect to admit that the use of deadly force wasn’t justified — even though you used it. That is virtually guaranteed to put you in prison for some years. If you use deadly force and end up shooting the guy in the leg unintentionally, that’s fine.
Another important distinction: even though you use deadly force in self-defense, the intention is never to kill the attacker. The intention is only to stop the attack. Once the attack is stopped, continuing use of deadly force is no longer justified.
Shooting someone in the leg only works in Hollywood. Even police officers and miltary personal are not train to shoot into the leg. In any situation LIke this you don’t have time to think things through. Things happen much to quick.
The best way is not to get into the situation to begin with. Zimmerman probaly should have back off and Traayvon should have walked away.
Rese,
You’ve been watching too many movies. You’re also doing the same thing the main stream media is guilty of, namley jumping to conclusions without any facts to back up your claims. Like the old saying goes, “Tis better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt”.
Really!! It is obvious you have never been in a critical situation in fact I bet you have never faced an opponent who wanted to hurt you. If this happened like they say, I believe Mr. Zimmerman had no time to think, only react. I know most folks do not want to hear this but Mr. Martin caused his death by his actions. I know ahow hard it is for Liberals to believe that ones own actions cause consquences and I am sorry to say this, but Mr. Martin caused Mr. Martins death.It is good for one to own up to their mistakes it is called responsibility and everyone should understand what that means and practice it.
You mean to tell me that if you get attacked by someone 7 inches taller than you on a dark ,rainy night that YOU THINK is a burglar…You’re just going to ask their age,if they are armed and if they intend to kill you..BEFORE YOU SHOOT THEM IN SELF DEFENSE.Oh,wait…keep in mind that if they find skittles and ice tea the guy that beat you MUST BE INNOCENT..*sarcasm*..You’re crazy and just as racist as you claim Zimmerman is.
I am both embarrassed and disgusted that I have once again let myelf be influenced by our ethical and morally corrupt media. Media these days plays a huge role in dictating knee jerk reactions from the general public, whether that is accurate or not. If anyone should be tried, it should be all those media people who misrepresented, twisted, and flat out lied about the facts to get a sensational story. While I do not want to mess with our right to freedom of speech, I am beginning to believe that in the case of public news media, they should be held legally liable and responsible for their actions and prosecuted as criminals for any misrepresentations. They hold a higher social responsibility to being fair, accurate, and truthful since they are sending this information out to the general public who still trust them to be giving us the real story, which they no longer do. I am so tired of politicians and news people who believe lying is perfectly acceptable. What has happened to the morals and ethics of our country? I am deeply saddened to see how out of hand this man’s life has become because of irresponsible reporting, and even more saddened that I had bought into those false reports.
If one person shoots another person and there are conflicting eye-witness accounts, you do not let the killer walk free without a trial. Why? Because the killer could go home, get another gun, and kill the witnesses.
The way that the police and the meddling DA handled the case sets a dangerous precedent. Such blatant mismanagement of a potential crime endangers the lives of citizens.
The author is basically stating that people should trust his opinion now because he has admitted he was gullible enough to be misled by initial sensationalistic media reports.
The fact is there is no concrete evidence supporting who was the aggressor. An investigation and trial would need to be conducted to determine such matters. Only after a public outcry was this avenue taken.
The same weak critical thinking that led the author to jump to a wrong conclusion earlier is now being used to jump to the opposite wrong conclusion. He is doing exactly the same thing and has simply jumped into the opposite band wagon.
He hasn’t learned anything at all.
The author learned plenty. Everyone including you should have learned that the media in this case flat out lied and misrepresented circumstances and facts in almost all instances. That nothing reported remotely resembled what happened on that night. Martin or Zimmerman might have been at fault or a percentage of the blame could have been assigned to either one. That is what trials are for.
While there have racist killings and many civil rights violations this may or may not have been one of them. By lying and misrepresenting the facts the media has given people an excuse to ignore ANY real cases of racial profiling, unjustified killing and on and on. I for one will NEVER believe Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson about anything to do with race. They have used up their quota of creditability over the years. Mob inciters, race baiters and opportunists is all they are, all they ever were and all they ever will be. The media is finished in this country and
are dead men walking. They should have the dignity to get in the grave so someone can shovel dirt on them.
Yes, but if Zimmerman pursued Martin and confronted him, he doesn’t have the “stand your ground” defense available, . He may be able to claim self defense, but again, not if he started it. I reckon he should stand trial, and perhaps under those circumstances, something like the truth will come out. If the narrative is as you now claim, then Zimmerman will be found not guilty.
Too much framing of the debate going on from all sides.
There is no evidence to support your conjecture. We don’t put people on trial to satisfy mobs in this country.
“We don’t put people on trial to satisfy mobs in this country.”
By all accounts they can and they will. This man WILL be found guilty and WILL in all probability lose his life over this.
What makes you so sure that he’ll be found guilty of anything? Seems pretty cut and dried from the FACTS that we now know. Street level, wanna be thug, grill wearing pot dealer wants to play tough guy and gets shot. What’d I miss here?
You left out Martin’s unclean tweets, trespassing at school, and assault of a bus-driver, . . .
“Facts” no longer matter. Trying to quell riots is the only thing going on here. This will be a show trial , a farce, and a green light to every gangsta to form more ‘flash mobs’, like what we saw at the Iowa state fair and at that Chicago park. Open season, and the right of self defense is about to be gutted.
@Angry C – that’s why there should be some accountability on the media. While they hide behind “free speech”, inciting riots is not protected speech. If they would stick to reporting facts and leave out the human interest, sensationalism, and speculation, they’d keep out of trouble. I hope Zimmerman is found guilty and has grounds to sue the media for slander, defamation of character, and possibly endangerment…I’m sure he has or will be receiving death threats.
you left out that Martin was Black and in our new post racial America Black on White-Hispanic crime is understandable and tolerable but White-Hispanic man defending himself against Black wanna be thug is totally racist. Get with the program dude.
Based on what evidence, exactly? Zimm’s story basically checks out. Does the State of Florida have anything to prove his guilt beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt? Unless there’s some secret hidden camera footage that contradicts Zimm he’ll walk out of the courtroom a free man.
Anyway, Zimm is being charged with Murder II, which means capitol punishment won’t be considered. Life imprisonment would be the maximum sentence. You’re just salivating over the notion of the man’s death which I find utterly contemptible.
I see several possible outcomes:
1. Judges throws it out with no trial.
2. Acquittal.
3. “Mob justice” intimidates witnesses into not testifying and we have a “legal lynching.”
so true lolly, but look on the bright side travons mom and dad are gonna be RICH
Yes, we do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_Green
What country are you writing from? The Zimmerman case is only the other side of the O.J./New Black Panther Party coin. Black crime — no consequences; white non-crime — jail. That’s how a legal system based on first- and second-class citizenship works. Now any territory where more than one race is resident is gonna have classes of citizenship — that’s the definition of human society (a dominance hierarchy, or the ‘pecking order’). The question for us today is: who’s gonna be the first-class citizen and who’s gonna tug the cap? You do not have to believe that whites are somehow inherently superior to blacks (this is what racism means), but it is simply a fact that whites and blacks are different from one another. If you are a white white person (where do white Hispanics, white Asians, or white blacks fit in?), then whites are ‘your people’ and normally you will feel better if you live somewhere where your people are running things. It’s 100% natural that blacks feel the same way (and they obviously do). However, as dominance is strictly a zero-sum game, only one race is gonna be on top (like Trayvon Martin). Reminds me of the old saying that the Devil’s greatest success was in convincing so many people that he doesn’t exist. If whites are told from grade-school to teevee and movies to the MSM that there is no racial struggle in the US, what better way to assure that whites loose the slo-mo race-war going on today?
Right. Why stop there. We all know that the Italians, the Irish, The Germans, The Dutch, The Swedes, The Eastern Europeans, The Jews, The Catholics, The Jacobites, The Puritans, The Muslims, The Romans, The Greeks, The Visigoths, etc. are all different and can never live together. Can you imagine that some people think America is a melting pot? The problems between the “races” are not racial at all, they are economic. Of course that implies personal responsibility and it’s so much easier to blame it on society’s inability to change.
SURE WE DO
..we’re getting ready to do it in florida…dream on about the “innocent until proven guility” bs..won’t happen..the media has lied, congress azzholes have taken it to the floor..on public display, the likes of race baiters sharpton and others want their pound of flesh…which equals out into $$$ for them..to hell with George or the facts..george, the “whitehispanic”.
..The black panthers can do as they please and Holder sits on his rear..giving us bs messages, and doing nothing…
AGAIN…SURE WE DO…ESP IF it’s a black white crime that sharpton has gotten hold of..ever black on black though..let ‘em kill each other.
“We don’t put people on trial to satisfy mobs in this country.”
You mean we should not. Put enough bad press on the job and every politician, Republican or Democrat, will play Pilate, wash their hands and throw this squarely into the lap of the court system. Disparage the court system enough (as Florida’s court system has already been disparaged) and the doubt of impartial justice will be enough for the race hustlers to stoke the fires of rage for a long time.
The race hustlers have won this round thanks to the reporting done by many in corporate media and the continuation of that reporting by others such as this author.
They have successfully brought Mr. Zimmerman to court. He and his family will now have to defend his actions through the long, expensive gristmill of our justice system. The race hustlers have succeeded in making him waste his time, his money, they have ruined his reputation and turned him into a target.
What is more they have shown they can bring this trouble to anyone.
Unless it consists of a jury of 12 black panthers, there is not a jury in the state that will find him guilty of any kind of murder….maybe invol.man slgt…but they are going for murder, and it was not murder…and the DA will never make that stick…This is all a charade to appease the al and jessy pony show…One more thing, I am convinced that this is what 0b0ma has been hoping for, let slip his racial ‘dogs of war’ onto “Whitey”…This AG Holder and 0b0ma and their ILK is itching for a race war, because that is in the Handbook of Alinsky, and Marx and Fred Engles…Straight from the Communist Manifesto…
Right….And there is LIBERTY and JUSTICE for all. How did you get your head so far up there?
Sorry to disabuse you, but there is plenty of evidence that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin, Zimmerman himself says so. We don’t know if Zimmerman confronted Martin or Martin turned and attacked Zimmerman; but Martin is dead as a result of what happened.
Stand your ground doesn’t come into it. Zimmerman can legitimately plead self defense and that claim can stand or fall on the facts as they are revealed; but they are unlikely to be properly examined in public unless this goes to trial; as it will now Zimmerman has been arrested and charged with murder.
Where do you get the claim that SYG doesn’t apply if you get out of a car to talk to somebody? He has every right to walk up to someone on a public street and start asking questions without getting assaulted. (They don’t have to answer of course)
The only way SYG is inapplicable is if Zimmerman started the fight. That means throwing a punch, not asking a question.
I’m sorry Bentley Strange, but I believe you are incorrect; Stand Your Ground (in Florida) applies to anywhere you have the legal right to be and are not the aggressor. Relevant text:
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html )
So, unless you can prove that he did not have the right to be in that alleyway, or can prove that he could not legally follow Trayvon, or can prove that he attacked first… Stand Your Ground *does* apply.
Hahaha….are you serious….this is the perfect example of you being wrong….
You can bet your bottom dollar that A.G. Eric Holder will go out of his way to make this a racial hate crime. Like Holder’s buddy, Rahm Emanuel says, “Can’t let a good crisis go to waste”. If the shooter had been black and the victim had been white, Holder would ignore the crime.
Yes, but if the thug Martin viciously attacked when Zimmerman politely but firmly questioned him, he has a perfect defense, even omitting “stand your ground”. I reckon that not even a DemoKKKrat district attorney will attempt to prosecute Zimmerman; the spectre of the race-baiting tyrant manque Nifong will bring a deserved palsy to his hands and tongue.
The mainline media and their penny-a-word cut-and-paste minions have succeeded…in bringing us one step closer to where we can confidently say, “Of course it’s a lie; it was on NBC”.
Unfortunately that is a place we are already at with Fox news – Other media moguls will have the same demise.
Not sure I understand that DemoKKKrat reference. KKK members are described as leaning FAR RIGHT. Maybe I’ve simply never seen a usually conservative group being compared with the Democrats – a leftist group, and with ideals/beliefs far different from the KKK.
The KKK is and always was a Democrat organization. In many cases, the local Democrat party and the KKK were one and the same. Republicans weren’t allowed to join the KKK. Your “Far Right” comment is nonsense.
I think he was referring to the fact that the KKK was founded by southern Democrats to keep the freed black folks,’in their place’. Calling the KKK far right is an invention of liberals. Abe Lincoln was a Republican, Bull Connors was a Democrat. Republicans passed the Civil Rights Bill, George Wallace,(Democrat) called out the National Guard to oppose civil rights. I think he meant it like that.
You obviously know NOTHING about the KKK. It is Democratic sponsored, organized, and operated. Always has been. Check it out.
Wow Wylee, I’m from Canada and I knew that the Klan was a Democrat organization. Is your education that shallow?
the d.a. prosecuting the case is a republican.
You clearly do not understand the Florida, or any states’, stand your ground law. A precondition for using the law as a defense is that you are engaged in a lawful activity. George Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal by checking out Martin. If Martin initiated the physical contact then Zimmerman had the right to stand his ground. However, Zimmerman did not use his gun until he was down on the ground getting his head smacked against the pavement. Stand your ground no longer applied. Had this assault gone down in New York’s Central Park Zimmerman would only have be charged with illegal possession of weapon and not murder. It was a legitimate case of self-defense.
break break.
Kudos to Bob Owens on his admission of a mistake. Shame on Bob Owens for relying on the MSM for his information. All the facts in the case were available on the internet from stories in Florida newspapers or TV news. “John” was interviewed on an Orlando TV station the day after the shooting.
Bob, you should have known better than to trust the MSM in a racially charged case.
Bob was still right when he said Zimmerman should NEVER have gotten out of the car.
That decision was textbook irresponsible, an armed citizen has to exercise better judgement than that,
WHEN THEY ARE ARMED.
Youre trying to report the location of a “suspicious” person to 911?
And you dont know what street youre on?
Oh, and youre ARMED?
Here a hint slowpoke-
DRIVE to the next intersection, because:
A: Its faster than WALKING to the nearest street sign.
You will get this “crucial” piece of information FASTER in your CAR than on FOOT.
B: Its SAFER than following a “suspicious” person who looks like he’s on “drugs”
Clue to the clueless: Holy shit, what if I get jumped and have to use my GUN?
Re-read the above. Twice.
Three times if you plan on going out into the world as a private citizen, armed.
Tattoo it to the insides of your eyelids so you can see it in your sleep.
When you are an armed citizen, you have to think ahead.
“What are the risks of THIS decision, when I have a GUN?”
Its not a matter of who has a “right” to do and be what and where…
Its a matter of having a proper armed adults perspective, and avoiding THE BLAZINGLY OBVIOUS.
Skipticism, cyncism, street smarts, whatever you want to call them,
they need to go into that Holster along with your gun.
In Zimmermans case, the BEST POSSIBLE outcome he could have expected was
“Eh, probably nothing tragic will occur”
Verses where he finds himself now.
Learn from this textbook bad idea, what kind of tactical decisions NOT to make when you are armed.
One more time for the arithmatic impared:
If the BEST possible outcome = 0
When the risks are = confrontation, death, political imprisonment.
Do you, or do you NOT, exit your vehicle with a concealed weapon?
Class?
That decision was textbook irresponsible, an armed citizen has to exercise better judgement than that, WHEN THEY ARE ARMED
What nonsense. If we’re going to go that route, then why not just keep going in that direction and disarm everyone, including the police? I mean, that way someone can follow someone else, and if you get beaten up for following someone, you won’t have to worry about the other guy getting dead, it’ll be you instead.
Does this make any sense at all?
I’ve been a firearms instructor for over 30 years.
Military, police, and private.
I’ve testified in court, I’m quite familiar with what kind of second guessing youre going to get in a situation like Zimmerman is in. As an armed citizen, you need to be smarter than that.
A request for an “address” from a dispatcher is NOT A COMMAND to get out of your car, and place yourself in an unreasonably vulnerable situation any armed person should recognise. Driving to the next intersection would have been fine. The cops can circle the street and box the guy in.
Its is not smart, or responsible, or advisable, to exit the safety of your car to go “looking around” on foot in the presense of a person you yourself feel is “suspicious”.
It is an act of stupidity…because a reasonably intelligent, prudent Gun Owner would see that a misunderstanding, a confrontation, or an outright ATTACK upon you by this guy, are the ONLY possible outcomes to that decision…besides shrugged shoulders and “well, nothing”.
In other words, Skippy, NOTHING GOOD will happen…the best you can hope for, is nothing tragic will occur. Thats just not a good enough bet to roll dice on. You win, you get…nothing. But if you lose?
A responsible Gun Owner would have seen that from outer space.
And if I was his “partner” in an armed civilian patrol that night, damn straight I would have physically restrained him from exiting the vehicle.
Just like I’d physically restrain a small child from dashing into the street between parked cars.
I would NOT ponder the odds of them NOT getting run over, and say “ah, its million to one chance” and allow it to occur. The answer is no, period. Its a reflex to a circumstance, based on KNOWLEDGE.
Because its the same mathematical formula.
What GOOD can POSSIBLY occur, verses what BAD might.
Its a no-brainer, son, thats why the dispatcher said “you dont have to do that”
It was a polite (as in, I’m being recorded?) way of saying “Dude, are you freaking Stooopid!”
Carrying a firearm intails a high level of responsibility.
Judgement, prudence, and forthought.
If Mr. Zimmerman exercised them, we would not be having this conversation.
Yes, you are allowed to defend your self, and I certainly think he needed to once he was attacked.
But he didnt need to get attacked.
Because a smart person with a GUN does not expose themselves to that level of risk,
when zero reward could ever have been be reaped from it.
Obviously, you haven’t listened to the entire exchanges between Zimmermann and the 911 dispatcher. He was trying to give directions to a building that *had* no address visible. The *dispatcher* kept demanding an address. He got out to provide that address.
But, you know, if you’re determined to lynch the guy, you’re not going to listen to anything approaching reason.
A request for an “address” from a dispatcher is NOT A COMMAND to get out of your car, and place yourself in an unreasonably vulnerable situation any armed person should recognise. Driving to the next intersection would have been fine. The cops can circle the street and box the guy in.
Root 83….You may be all you say you are, and i salute you, the same goes to the writer of this essay….Mistakes are made, every time we do something there is always a chance that we can err..It is noble of Bob Owens to say he was totally wrong, I knew that when he wrote his original piece…..and he states “he will never be HAD like that again….Oh yes you probably will..We are trained from birth to suck the milk from a liberal tv news caster…as we get into a tight situation, the msm will feed us their lying rot, to shape the thoughts of the day….Just say NO to the MSM…Stay with Fox until we can do better….And Root 83…This man Zim. did what he had to do…period, and no need for an “ax-pert” like you to monday morn quarterback…Zim was 100% correct in my view, and the perp, treyvon, the lil 12 year old {could of been an 0samb0 baby boy}…is pushing up dasies, and momo is rolling in the money on his copyrighted name…
Lin,
“But, you know, if you’re determined to lynch the guy, you’re not going to listen to anything approaching reason”
I’m not trying to lynch him. I’m hoping his stupid decision doesnt land him in jail for life. I’ve testified on behalf of self defense shooters (students) in quasi-politically motivated “questionable deadly force” cases before.
They suck. They absolutuly suck.
And thats where Zimmerman finds himself now.
And dammnit, it didnt have to be. He, in my opinion of proper CCW and Deadlly Force training, based on 30+ years experience, violated THE MOST BASIC principals of what NOT TO DO when you are armed.
The Liabilities and Second Guessing you will face are enourmous, as we all can now see.
This is TEXTBOOK Statist/Leftest reaction to most any self-defense shooting, now magnified by the “racial” implications.
You have to see these things comming when you carry a gun. You have to be aware. If your life/limb are not at risk, and you HAVE COMM. with the authorities, their is NO justifiable reason to persue on foot.
The risk of being attacked, and THEN being second guessed, are just too freaking high. And they will hang you out to dry, innocent or not, just as sure as the sun will rise.
Dont do it when your life isnt threatened…because if the punk can get an angle on you, HE WILL, and who’s getting grilled now?
Yeah, amazing huh?
Exiting the car cost Zimmerman his life…
I wish the man had more sense, but he didnt.
Learn from this, children, learn.
How do you KNOW that Zimmerman didn’t intend to just wound Martin and Martin grabbed the gun and in the struggle, the shot went elsewhere? You don’t know that. Also, go read the exact 911 transcript. It says clearly that Zimmerman didn’t know where Martin at some point and was preparing to meet the police at the mailboxes of the community. If that is true, then he wasn’t following Martin at all. It appears that Martin had visited this complex and his father’s fiance before, so why was he wandering around the complex in the rain looking suspicious? It’s hard to believe he was lost. Was he high perhaps? Who knows.
Okay, while we do “get” what you’re trying t’say, the risks taken in consideration, is there a place for people to decide to protect their nation and their neighborhood? Or do I simply huddle under the covers and say: “Honey, will you go see what that was?”, “I sure hope the president will stop all this crime.”?
Bad tactics and bad decision
If you want to defend yourself, dont be stupid with the risks you take.
The best way to win a fight is to not get suckered into one
What you don’t seem to understand is none of what you wrote matters. It doesn’t matter if George Zimmerman ran down Trayvon Martin while calling him every racial slur in the book.
It doesn’t even matter if George Zimmerman shoved Trayvon Martin or threw the first punch.
Under Florida law, and this is for emphasis, ONCE TRAYVON MARTIN GOT ON TOP OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND STARTED PUMMELLING HIM, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS LEGALLY ALLOWED TO USE DEADLY FORCE TO SAVE HIS LIFE. Trayvon Martin became, in the eyes of the law, the aggressor the second he chose to deny George Zimmerman the ability to defend himself or escape the situation.
In other words, George Zimmerman was under no obligation to let Trayvon Martin pummel him into brain damage or death, no matter what led up to it.
It’s not complicated.
Good point, John. It’s worth noting also that there have been many cases where an attacker was slamming someone’s head into a wall, pole, car door, rock, etc., and legally that is “assault with a deadly weapon.” If anyone doesn’t believe me, do some research and look it up.
The point is, and I know it’s been raised many times, that Stand Your Ground had nothing whatsoever to do with this encounter. Trayvon was on top of him and he couldn’t get away. Deadly force was the only option, as he was probably within seconds of losing consciousness.
…And if Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle, we wouldn’t be having the conversation today.
Which is, I believe, “The Root ’83′s” point.
you are right.
“ONCE TRAYVON MARTIN GOT ON TOP OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND STARTED PUMMELLING HIM”
First of all, it is spelled “pummeling”. Getting that out of the way, there is no concrete evidence that is what happened and such matters would need to be determined by a proper investigation and trial.
Root83, Sir… you are dreaming of lala land methinks…Why do you think Fla. gave Zim the right to wear that piece, because by the time the cops get there Zim would of been dead, and who says that we as citizens armed with a ballbat, slingshot, or Pistol do not have the right to demand that a perp like travon be respectful toward us, when we are in our own gated community that rightfully belongs to the citizens of the n-hood…….This sleazy Punk thought he would bash the hell out of a legit security personell, and now the lil punk is poof, zapped, gone….and Good Riddance…I am only sorry that poor Zim. now has to leave every thing behind in his life, because AG Holders Pretarian Guards, the NBPP, can do what they are doing and get away with it….
I dont dream Josie,
I forsee the future clearly, based on lots of experience from the past.
Guns are tools, no more no less.
Dont expect them to compensate for a bad decision without somebody giving you grief.
So listen up. If you are Armed, and life and/or limb isnt in immediate danger (like, in the car?) dont PUT IT IN DANGER…(like, on foot) by prowling around looking for a “suspicious character” when you ALREADY have the cops on the line.
Why? Same reason my C.C.W. wife doesnt waltz down the street with money dripping from her purse, strolling past a group of lean and angry porch monkeys, when the other side of the street
(or better yet, the car? with locked DOORS?) is an AVAILABLE OPTION ….
Yeah, she has a RIGHT to be on that particular street, on foot, alone….and no, they have no right to accost her….
But, (now heres the tricky part folks) Smart Armed Woman that she is, she doesnt INVITE an attack,
if she can easily AVOID one.
Now, if some Jackass Feminist tells her “dont do that! You have every right to be on that street!” I’m telling her to Get Bent, dont put my wife in unnessisarry danger with your foolish and irresponsible advise about how things OUGHT to be, verses how THEY REALLY ARE.
Your gun have a safety?
Do a function test to make sure it works.
Chamber a round, safety on, put it too your head, and squeeze the trigger.
It SHOULD work right?
I mean, its DESIGNED to prevent the gun from going off, isnt it?
You have a RIGHT to expect it to work properly dont you?…
Hell, most likely IT WILL work as advertised, wont it?
Chances are, nothing bad will happen.
But how SMART is it to function test your pistol’s safety THAT way, when there is a SAFER WAY of acomplishing the EXACT SAME THING.
What exactly, would you expect to GAIN from such an action, that would ever justify THE RISK of that action?
When you are armed, and decide to “do something” involving an unknown stranger you are ALREADY suspicious of, you need to think about what COULD happen, not what SHOULD happen, because youre “right” and he’s “wrong”.
You absolutely need to be SMARTER, than that.
This shooting was EASILY avoidable.
Any Firearms Instructor that would tell his student in those circumstances “sure man, go…get out of the car and look for him…you ARE in the right, after all” should immediately turn in his credentials, because thats just plain stupid, irresponsible, damn near criminally liable advice to give.
That dice has only three sides…Nothing, Killed, or Crucified.
There is no “good” side of that dice, there is no “good” that can occur, so why roll it?
Because you’re “right?”
It aint about right/wrong.
Its about who’s gonna get railroaded into prison now, because he was TO STUPID to forsee the obvious risk and consequence, of a really, REALLY, bad tactical decision.
George Zimmerman was forced to shoot his way out of a trap…
A trap any RESPONSIBLE Armed Citizen would have recognised, and avoided.
Martin was walking home to his place of residence. His biological father and stepmother shared joint custody of him with his biological mother. This does not make him a criminal perpetrator.
Zimmerman was not a legitimate member of security personnel at the gated community. In fact, there is a record of Zimmerman being fired as a security guard for unprofessional behavior.
Neighborhood watch is not the same as being a security guard, nor is it the same as being a police officer.
What am I missing? People walk around outside there cars all the time. It’s allowed.
Okay, drive away to get an address? Perhaps, but what of surveillance? What of watchman’s credibility with a busy police dept not wanting to send a cruiser too soon? It appears Zimmerman (and few) would expect the pain in his face from a fist, to set off so much trouble. If he thought he was just a young guy, perhaps a robber, he may not have sensed harm.
Anybody, lighter or heavier can hurt you. When it’s getting bad. you look for a way to make it stop. Curl up, fight like crazy, kick like a mule, or pull a gun. Living is the only goal. There’s no guarantee the other person will stop beating on you – until you’re a cripple or you’re dead – unless you can affect this decision yourself.
“People walk around outside there cars all the time. It’s allowed.”
Yeah its allowed….but sometimes its a really STUPID thing to do.
Thats what you missed here.
Its called “how the real world works”
Let me Google that for you
There is legal right to be lawfully stupid in this country. You have the right not to be assaulted. You do not have a right to survive your stupidity if you initiate a serious assault, at least in states that has Stand Your Ground, because they have this law called Stand Your Ground.
I for one am not going to assume that Trayvon is some sort of angel. I’ve read his tweets, and angel’s generally don’t go around beating on random people or have large amounts of stolen women’s jewelry in their bags. Zimmerman’s instincts were right about Trayvon and he was as justified in confronting him as any cop would have been. Trayvon’s assumption that he was just going to roll Zimmerman didn’t work out because he forgot to bring a gun to a gunfight.
Here, let me fix that for you:
There, that’s better!
The Root 83 strikes me as the type of guy who thinks that being the Last Remaining Professional Gun Expert Who Knows All The Legal Ins And Outs makes him an authority on the stupidity of people, or lack thereof.
GZ didn’t know if TM was armed and seeking to rob, or possibly rape and muder someone. Not getting out of the car may have protected him, could you seriously expect him to be able to have lived with himself if one of his neighbors had gotten robbed or murdered that night? I’m sorry TR83 thinks the dumb-ass courts are the immovable object we have to plan all our lives around; this should serve him well when the riots hit his better-gated community and his one-man show can’t hold off a hundred of Trayvon’s kindred with nothing to lose and guns of their own. That self-centered siege mentality ain’t lookin’ so hot then.
And it’s a short hop from “don’t make yourself LOOK like a victim” to “give these guys a little affirmative action, a little bit of EBT cards, some food stamps, after all you want to be nice and avoid violence, right?”
No more “professional” violence experts are needed, especially when witnesses for the prosecution, thank you very much.
…And your evidence that Martin was planning to “rob, … rape [or] muder (sic) someone” is? Besides not a damn thing?
The only thing perceptibly true at the time was that a young black man was walking through a gated community. At night. In a place unfamiliar to him. Recall he was visiting his father.
Of course, since he’s black, he’s obviously planning a rape, “muder,” or drive-by. {/sarc}
Comments like this play into the hands of race-baiters & hate-mongers like Sharpton and Jackson. Trying to shape the narrative wherein Martin is some sort of gang-banger is just as bad as painting him as an innocent angel.
Alas, most folks here don’t seem to want to listen to what The Root ’83 has to say, which reinforces the old saying “Common sense isn’t.”
You are pretty much correct in my est…No offence to root 83, but he seems to think he is the final word when it comes to this subject….Where is it written that A certified security guard cannot get out of his car and follow a Slime ball…Is this written in stone somewhere…No, This punk Trev, came into a very nice gated community and thought he would show his A$$ a little bit and show these Middle Class Honkies what a real street badd boy could do….Sleaze around and jump the Security Guard, and beat the hell out of him, and go on to his place of visit….Sorry Root 83….Your Ideas are simply wrong here…Zimm actually has the law of Florida on his side…and 0bama and AG Holder cannot use this incident as fodder for their planned race war, because by the time this has gone to a jury of 12, 0bama may not even be in office…..Sorry NBPP, have to wait for the next White-Black Shooting
Solid take there.
“He may be able to claim self defense, but again, not if he started it.”
A cursory reading of the actual law might be helpful here:
“Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself.” Fla. Stats. 776.041.
As is typical in other states, the provoker can only regain self-defense rights if:
(2)(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
You have an interesting definition of the words “provokes the use of force”. I guess you feel people have the right to assault and/or batter you if you ask them a question they don’t like?
Wagist.com has done schematics of the neighborhood and the timeline. From the time Martin stared at Zimmerman to the time he suckerpunched Zimmerman’s face was over 4 minutes(classic knock-out game, please look up knock-out games, Martin was going to take a picture and rack up points).
It would have taken Martin less than 30 seconds to jog or run to Brandy Green’s home where he was (we are told) staying. If he had proceeded “home,” he would have gotten there safely in 30 seconds max. And none of this would have happened.
The only explanation possible is that rather than go home, Martin doubled back to assault Zimmerman.
Here is a surveillance tip from a professional for all you would be watchmen out there. When you lose contact with the person you are surveiling you should abort your surveillance by crossing the street, getting into a concealed position and return to your point of origin by a different route. By following this lost contact procedure you will not get ambushed and possibly regain contact on favorable terms.
Which is absolutely useless information unless it is to be expected that the person being followed will attack from ambush. Which is what Zimmerman claims happened.
While that may be true, Martin may not have been familiar with the neighborhood, especially at night. It is very easy to get turned around in an unfamiliar place where many of the homes looks almost exactly alike. As I’ve said elsewhere here: to vindicate Zimmerman doesn’t require that we vilify Martin.
The only way the use of force was justified is if Martin attacked Zimmerman making him the villain. This isn’t some deal where everyone’s innocent and the gun accidentally went off. It was aimed at Martin to stop him from beating on Zimmerman. How could Martin possibly not be a villain here?
Somebody said the burglaries in that neighborhood have tapered way down—you hear anything of that?
Due to media inflammation of a fully investigated crime for political gain what you are saying is Zimmerman should have to pay $40-$60K for a lawyer to make sure that the facts already found to be in evidence by those MORE QUALIFIED THAN YOU or I aren’t overruled by media frenzy and racist administration tactics. So keep yourself alive (although you made basic safety mistakes), and pay tons of $$$ just because the other player is black, and you have a white/Jewish sounding name.
Zs father called out publicly (on TV) for the police to be investigated in a private attack bar-fight that got overzealous by the son of one of the department in which a BLACK was the victim- some racist family. THEN (after the shooting) would have been the perfect time for payback- prosecute Z because the father publicly called for investigation on their force. Two of them as I understand were involved in some way in the investigation or call. That is what would have happened in my town of BC, MI…you file a complaint you get your door kicked in, harassed, and beat- if it is assumed they can get away with it.
This whole incident was blown out of proportion as a misdirect regarding Zeros failed policies and to get racial tensions up so that blacks who may have voted to continue this countries existence rather than Zeros stay in office.
You are a raging bigot. Go find another group of bigots and cede the union…we don’t want you (coming from a white person). We don’t need your type.
And you sir, need to go to a psychiatrist to see about your lack of control of your emotions. I happen to have Korean, Black of different origins, hispanic, and other bloods in my family that I happen to love very much.
I do however take exception to the race-baiting angle towards this month old (at the time of the eruption of biased reporting)incident, and the funny time frame it erupts, enough to prejudice many blacks who happen to put the faith in honest reporting into listening to lamestream media. Their faith IS misplaced there. In all likelihood it was a strict Democratic ploy to keep hispanic/black citizens on the Democrat Plantation of poverty, by enraging their sensibilities with falsehoods and distortions that Zero immediately made political ‘If I had a son would look like ME”-’. The racebaiters Jesse & Al will be saying vote for Zero or you won’t have any rights. You display the liberal IQ level by immediately calling names and push the ‘fact’ you are not biased because you state you are white. Being Caucasian means nothing- not intelligence, honesty, nor integrity, to state that in your message just means you are shallow enough to either think it does mean one of those things, or that you are liberal enough to think we would consider it.
The media got the pot stirred up to disrupt any reporting on the truth of Zeros capabilities, which are equal to his referred name in my opinion. Go see a Dr about your case of Rectal Cranial Inversion.
Great response there, Cappy. “Rectal Cranial Inversion”. Heh.
A. You need to learn the definition of “bigot”. (HINT: Bigotry is not involved in this case AT ALL.)
B. Everything he said was factual.
In Florida, Zimmerman can not be sued for ‘wrongful death’ damages (nor the gated community, nor the city of Sandord) unless he is arrested.
Once that arrest happens, the Martin’s lawyer can pester the city until they pay him to go away.
His actions, bringing out old photographs of Trayvon, and irrelevent details such as skittles and iced tea, are focused on getting Zimmerman falsely arrested. That is when the lawyer’s game begins in earnest.
Of course the City of Sanford also knows that falsely arresting Zimmerman makes them doubly liable, so the intent of the activists is to threaten even more damage than would be necessary to pay off the attorney. Credibily isn’t the strong suit of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. Rather their strong suit is the promise that the pain will stop if they get paid off.
Good brakes on ambulances is a major cause of death among attorneys.
+5 Insightful.
Danny Boy, police dispatchers do not order rent-a-cops to do anything. Zimmerman is authorized to carry a firearm. We don’t know whether Martin was “minding his own business” or not. WE do know that he has a record as a doper, a burglar and a troublemaker. Did you not (can you not) read the article? Do you not perceive that a Watchman has a duty to surveil someone wandering aound in the rain in a gated community? Why do you choose to ignore the forensics which establish Zimmermans’ account? Do you suppose that Blacks are always right and Hispanics always wrong? You totally miscast the event. Shame on you!
The problem with your opinion is that you assume Zimmerman hit Trayvon or shoved him. However, if Tray initiated a physical altercation by punching Zimmerman and jumping on top of him with intent to pound him to a pulp, it falls under self defense. Why did Tray never call police if he was truly concerned about Zimmerman? If he had called, at least the dispatchers could have told the both to back off until police arrived. However, I suspect that may be what pissed Trayvon off, police were on the way. It is too bad the Seven Eleven surveillance videos aren’t available. They may show Tray’s disposition that night i.e. his behavior and demeanor.
Martin did not call the police because that is a REALLY stupid thing to do if you are in the process of committing (or preparing to commit) a crime.
DUH.
Go read the language of the Stand Your Ground law. Even if Zimmerman started the confrontation that initiated violence, once you break off contact and make it clear that you are not continuing the fight, you are in the clear if you have to use deadly force. See the appendix in this document for the full text of the Florida statute. See 776.041(2)(b):
§ 776.041. Use of force by aggressor
The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
As Corey stated, nothing can be read into her adjourning the grand jury except that it is not a capital case. Under Florida law, the standard is the same for filing charges whether by police, prosecutor, or grand jury: probable cause that a crime has been committed.
While a GJ indictment would absolve the police, prosecutors, and municipalities from civil liability for false arrest, it is also most likely to make an error in determining probable cause which would later be dismissed by a judge. Corey probably correctly sees that as a volatile and dangerous sequence of events.
Barring forensic or other evidence of which we currently are unaware, I expect Corey to hold a presser and go through the evidence and explain why it doesn’t justify any criminal charges. Since she is black, as well as being an experienced prosecutor with many self-defense cases under her belt, this might be the best chance to defuse the powder keg of the mob incited by Ben Crump and his money-grubbing team of race pimps.
“How naive that post now seems. The narrative created by the media at that time … ….”
Let that be a lesson to you – never trust a snake.
End the madness and bring him to trial. But how he will get a fair trial in this part of FL is beyond me. Unfortunatley, i live close to where this happened and we’re getting tired of the 24 media circus. First Casey Anthony, now this, except this has a edgier feel to it – almost like the mid 60′s. As the rehetoric heats up, and the drumbeat of “do something or else”, bounties, and calls for all out race war escalate, everyone is starting to look at each other funny.
For the most part, people are going about their business, treating each other in a civil manner, regardless of their skin pigment. But the tension is rising and all it takes for is some out of town bonehead to trigger what could be an even uglier mess.
Zimmerman dropping out of sight, his attorney’s stepping back, all of it continues to feed the most dangerous narrative: that someone needs to take matters into their own hands to ensure justice is done. Feels a lot like Plainfield, NJ in ’67 (I lived in the next town over back then) and that was not a pleasant time.
Yes – by all means you must satisfy the lynch mob. Never mind the fair trial. Just drag him out and hang him.
Hey, here’s an odd idea:
Let’s follow the law. You know, the one that says we need probable cause to bring charges? And probable cause is based on evidence?
So far, there is no evidence that any crime was committed, much less that Zimmerman committed it.
I sure hope you never sit on any jury.
no argument – the prosecutor needs to get off her ass and either charge him or not. If there’s no evidence of a crime, and it’s far from clear that there is, then explain it excruciating detail why not, and drop the case. Or make the case – either way, make a decision. It’s the non-action that keeps breathing oxygen into this fire. I wasn’t aware that Mark v had possession of all the facts. No one does.
My comment was directed at the level of tension that is palpable here in the Sanford area. I was once on the wrong end of a mini race riot back in 1967. You don’t want that experience. No one wins.
(the local rednecks are already jacked up with calls to “bring it on” in response to the black panthers – give me a break.)
The police have all the facts that are available and relevant, and didn’t see any need to arrest Zimmerman.
Why isn’t that good enough?
Oh, wait.
The kid was black. THAT’S why it isn’t good enough.
This is the same Sanford police, who couldn’t (wouldn’t) charge the son of the police chief (2 chief’s ago), after his unprovoked beat down of a homeless guy was caught on video.
Seriously, as much as it pains me to say this because I have worked with these guys, they aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer. I wouldn’t hang my hat on their FBI like investigative skills.
I don’t care if the kid is black or white. I do care that we start a process to fully vet all the facts (those known by the police and those known only by Zimmerman) to determine what really happened, and if it was a crime.
For those of us who have to live next to this 3 ring circus, and possibly deal with the results of current racial incitement, I welcome the opportunity to lower the temperature and let the criminal justice system work, while his attorney begins a vigorous defense.
Walt,
You should have been in Laramie, WY when Mathew Shepard was killed. Not only did the media completely blow the storyline but they damn near destroyed the cases against his killers. They went out of their way to find the most red-necked/backwards people to interview (unfortunately, Laramie has more than its fair share) but they absolutely refused to interview anyone who could put two sentences together.
I worked 1/2 a block from the bar where the principles met that night (even dropped in for a beer on my way home that night). I lived a block further down the road from that bar so I had satellite trucks and reporters swarming my area for weeks on end. Not once was I approached for an interview but I did break up an interview of an employee of the company I worked for at the time while offering myself as his replacement. They’d gotten the sound bites they wanted from him and politely refused my offer. The channel aired a very small portion of that interview and pieced together two separate sound bites completely out of context that “proved Laramie whites were all racist”.
I have never fully trusted any reporter since then at any level. My advice is to initially follow Reagan…”Trust but verify” in all cases but, secondly, to keep your own mouth (or keyboard) silent until you have FACTS in hand. (Kudos to Bob for admitting his mistake.)
To be fair, Shepard’s convicted killers did kill him…but it wasn’t because he was gay. It was because he was flashing a wad of cash around the bar that night and they wanted to rob him. Shepard was very flamboyant and propositioned many (mainly jokingly) that night while I was in the bar having my one beer. McKinney and Henderson came in after I had gone and I don’t know if he propositioned either of them with first-hand knowledge. The bartender that night told me later he did proposition at least one of them. Now, check the news stories about that case and you might actually find that information buried deep somewhere…but I doubt it.
Boy, you really must be slow, Mr. Owens! I haven’t believed anything the leftist MSM puts up as “news” since I was a kid in high school (that’s about forty years). There have been so many examples of MSM mendacity during my life that I could write a book about it. Many others have. What I have never understood is how so many of my fellow Americans continue to allow themselves to be snookered, over and over again, with eyes wide shut, by the MSM scumbags. If I could answer that question, then maybe I could begin to understand how monsters like Hitler and Hussein are freely elected by the brain-dead people they use and abuse.
I’m with you. Recall three of the most highly-regarded newscasters were asked: If they were embedded with insurgents who were set to ambush AMERICAN troops, would they warn our troops? All three said they coundn’t, because then the insurgents would think of them as American SPIES! That was moment, decades ago, when all trust in the media was forever lost.
No, worse than that, their duty was to collect the “news”, not take sides. What would personally happen to them was only a secondary consideration.
Yes, this is a problem with taking Mr. Owens as a serious opinionator: Why would he not be skeptical of a media narrative that made Zimmerman a monster and the police complicit? He doesn’t know Zimmerman or the police and he didn’t know Trayvon Martin. He just bought into the media narrative that white people are so racist and mean they are just itching to shoot young black men. Whuh??? Thats not the story we see over and over again in the news, for sure. The story we see over and over is that young black men commit an awful lot of crimes, especially violent crimes, including very vicious violent crimes.
Such gross errors in judgement is why I do not read you, nor accept your conclusions or opinions as being written by a sober and serious person…going back to your copy in Confederate Yankee blog.
You added your voice to the well-funded and orchestrated lynch mob howling for the head of George Zimmerman…who may just turn out to be an innocent man.
I hope that you’re proud of yourself.
Some transgressions you do NOT get to do penance for.
You might help yourself now and in whatever future opinions you may form in this matter by researching and learning the difference between Justifiable Homicide and Excusable Homicide.
And reserve your future efforts to examining what is presented to the American people as “news” with as skeptical an eye as possible. Such a mission is the very reason for Pajamas Media’s existence…not to regurgitate the falsehoods that vomit forth out of the TV screen and ooze out of the newsprint.
You swallowed their narrative, and were burned because of it. At this point, and as a member of the Alternative media, you really have no excuse for doing so.
After the edited Rodney King beating tape, “Black church” burnings in the South, “Fake but Accurate” and a host of other past hogwash that in retrospect was laughably absurd, you think that you would have learned.
Agreed, especially since our host’s above account is still riddled with inadequacies; its clear it wasn’t thoroughly researched, which would seem to be a basic duty of someone writing such a mea culpa.
Well said.
No apology or retraction can possibly repair the damage Bob has done by publicly swallowing the MSM manufactured explanation designed to inflame not tamp racial animosity.
Only a putz would add fuel to a fire set by MSM given their record and apologies are not an acceptable response, Bob’s more reasonable analysis not withstanding.
but you obviously _did_ read this, thus negating your point.
HAGD
“…..may just turn out to be an innocent man.”
-for every victim there should be justice. and that comes ONLY from an investigation, which would never had happened had not the media made this public nationally. and if Zimmerman is the victim, i hope he is legally exonerated.
seems to me the local gendarmerie begann their examination of available evidence post haste, rather than waiting for cries for vengeance from MSM. Else we’d not have the accounts of Mr. Z’s trip to the Stationhouse and attendant video, voice, interview work that was done there the night of this incident. Funny, though, that the “normal” media never even let on that Mr’ Z even TOOK that ride downtown that same night. This article is the first I’ve read even recounting usch a trip. Media have always stated “he was not detained”. Hah, any time I take a ride downtown to chat up the local lawmen, I’m being “detained”, as I am not free to drive on home and climb into my much-needed bed.
Uh, there was an investigation before this ever hit the news. It was a slam-dunk, no CSI required investigation of a straightforward situation.
That is, until the race-baiters got involved.
((((((((((BILGE))))))))))
You’re back!
Totally agree with your assessment.
The “ANTI WHITEY” movement is in full swing. Ain’t it grand? /sarc
Hello Ms. Delia, good to see you.
“The “ANTI WHITEY” movement is in full swing. Ain’t it grand? /sarc”
Yes, quite.
Must be an election year or something, huh?
I have never commented on this case, and still won’t, until it is resolved one way or another by the courts. Yes, that includes refusing to take any action against Zimmerman; a “no true bill” is a resolution.
As to why, I have two basic guiding principles in such matters;
1. Speaking as an ex-CSI test-tube jockey, I was taught never to speculate about an ongoing case investigation. Especially not in public.
2. When the MSM and the “usual suspects”, as Capitaine’ Renault would say, immediately framed it as a white vs. black “hate crime”, I knew that absolutely nothing the MSM said about it would be reliable. Except in the sense that it would reliably reflect their “progressive” dogmas.
The one bright spot here is that the MSM fell into the trap of their own hubris’, by trying to “massage” the news so blatantly, and clumsily, that they were caught red-handed in multiple flat-out lies. Which actually surprised me. Not that they lied, but that they got caught at it in a very public way.
cheers
eon
Can’t blame the MSM dinosaurs too much – they still don’t believe nor understand how many more smart people are watching for, analyzing, and publishing about their message-corrupted reportage than there were only a few years ago.
get caught at it? up to a point, yes.
but did nbc really ‘n truly fire that seasoned editor, what’s-his-or her-name?
or are you also swallowing msm bull yourself?
If they fired anybody, it was probably some low mileage pit-woofie who hadn’t been there long enough to get “networked”. If they’d actually canned anyone with editorial authority, we’d have a name.
When I say they got caught, I mean that anybody paying attention knows they tried to falsify (potential) evidence. Which, by the way, is a prosecutable offense if, as in this case, it could influence potential jurors in the event anything came to trial. In fact, if (a) it came to trial and (b) it could be shown that the jury pool was tainted by the publicity, the defense could petition for a change of venue on that count alone.
What’s more, with it going national due to the MSM’s feeding frenzy, any half-smart defense attorney could argue that there was no way the potential defendant (Zimmerman) could get an unbiased jury anywhere in the U.S. This would probably end with a trial in front of a three-judge panel, which is good if you’re innocent, or acted within the law. Juries are better if you actually committed a crime, in fact or under law. Ask any experienced criminal defense attorney why.
cheers
eon
To anyone who believes this was a ‘racial murder!!!!!’, ask yourself why Martin was not, then, just shot in the back?
It seems we may be in a dangerous place; a society which deservedly tunes out the media, in fact which more times than not looks upon the media with suspicion, does not seem fitting for a representative democracy.
Fortunately, said society is turning to an alternative media; all will be well, or as well as it ever was, when the transition is complete.
If it comes out he is guilty, will you write another apology post?
Btw, neighborhood watch here…. we’ve called the police once, for vandalism, in 10 years. Calling 46 times over 8 years means the fear in your body rules you.
Basically, only the doctored tape was bad news, everything else you listed was information reported, as they had it, and adjusted once new information was known. This is how the media has worked for 20+ years.
Personally I don’t care about Florida’s law, on the books, the law might keep him from going to jail, but the fact is, it’s still murder, he’s just not guilty of a crime related to the murder.
“we’ve called the police once, for vandalism, in 10 years”….
Any chance you don’t live in Sanford?
Maybe their crime situation is different from yours.
Sanford’s property crime rate is almost double the nation’s and substantially higher than Florida’s . We’ve also learned this community suffered a string of burglaries and one frightening near robbery in the last couple of years or so, which is what prompted Zimmerman and the homeowner’s association (the big pockets it appears Martin’s family and lawyers want to tap) to organize a official Neighborhood Watch, which Zimmerman was the captain of.
The vandalism was gang related… kills the crime theory, eh? As well, I live in S. Arizona, and my neighborhood isn’t gated. I laugh at the crime rate theory.
yeah, me too. I’ve called the cops maybe twice in the last 10 years. On the other hand, there is little crime where i live. but that couldnt have anything to do with it right? Genius.
Nice to know you live in such a great neighborhood. Too bad not everyone can as the police reports from Zimmerman’s community attest. These are separate from Zimmerman’s calls.
Also btw…Murder is different from justifiable homicide which I believe the evidence that I know about shows this to be.
This is a tragedy but as the cops say, “This was a good shoot” ie. justifiable. I think the overwhelming weight of the evidence on Zimmerman’s side and he will not be indicted. Still….it is sad all around.
I think that the voice screaming for help is Zimmerman’s and a simple recreation of the scene and position of the people could prove this. Ballistics, not revealed yet, will shed more light on whether Zimmerman’s account is valid. All of his actions around the incident protest his innocence. He offered to be questioned by the police without counsel for 5 hours. He offered to take a voice stress analyzer (a form of lie detector) and passed.
Stand your ground is invalid here if in fact Zimmerman was getting his head pounded into the ground and it looks like it was.
Multiple lines of evidence from witness accounts support Zimmerman and ones that may support Trayvon and very weak.
It looks like T doubled back and jumped Z and was giving him a near fatal beat down. Wresting for the gun looks likely as reports indicate that the slide did not cycle a new round into the chamber as this would indicate someone holding the slide.
I was especially interested in Trayvon’s father’s account the the voice was not his son’s which was told to the police right after the event when they played the tape for him. (he has reversed this judgement to the voice was Trayvon, not that he is not sure…quite a switch)
The media’s behavior has been absolutely disgusting and irresponsible and I hope Zimmerman calls them to account by suing for damages as should anyone injured by the race riots that the media is whipping up that may occurs after no indictment is made.
I will reserve judgement till all the facts are out but I am sure that there will be no indictment.
Of course I predicted that there was no way the Obama would be elected if the American people knew he was associated with people with bombed government buildings and whose group was building an antipersonnel weapon to kill soldiers and their dates at a dance at Fort Dix when they were blown up by their own weapon which collapsed the house they were working in.
“I was especially interested in Trayvon’s father’s account the the voice was not his son’s which was told to the police right after the event when they played the tape for him. (he has reversed this judgement to the voice was Trayvon, not that he is not sure…quite a switch)”
Tracy Martin (Trayvon’s father) says what his attorney, Ben Crump, tells him to say. I’m sure that he has been advised by counsel that his initial remarks to the police were not “helpful.”
“Calling 46 times over 8 years means the fear in your body rules you.”
Or, maybe that volume of calls indicates that Zimmerman was a very conscientious neighborhood watch volunteer in a marginal neighborhood.
Read the partial call logs that are available online, then come back and opine from an informed position.
First of all, the claim that Zimm called 911 4 times in one year was grossly incorrect, it was 46 times in 8 years, from an active neighborhood watch member.
Second, Mr. OWens, what planet have you been on for the past 30 years? if you have not long ago learned to distrust the media completely in any hot black/white case, your naivete is boundless. time to wake up and smell the chitlins.
A majority of people across the country still falls for msm reporting.
There’s a nationwide lynch-mob mentality and a race war brewing in this case now.
This guy Bob Owens woke up, and fast too, and on top of that admitted his mistake publicly.
Lay off him. He set a great example. Thank him instead.
Or maybe it means he lives in a really bad area.
One of the many wise things my father taught me was, “Don’t judge other people by yourself.”
If I can’t, doesn’t mean nobody can. If I can, doesn’t mean everybody can. If it’s easy for me, doesn’t mean everybody can. If I can’t, some folks might find it easy.
If it’s cold in the winter where I am, doesn’t mean it’s cold in the winter where you are.
Just because you’ve called once in 10 years doesn’t mean ANYTHING about what’s appropriate in Zimmerman’s neighborhood. 11 calls in 8 years might just be remarkable restraint.
You remind me of the 75 year old man who was interviewed about Bob Dole becoming President. The old man was indignant that Bob Dole could think he was mentally competent to be President, since the old man knew HE was not.
I’m pretty sure this guy was an idiot long before he got to 75.
Lol, let’s forget the fact that he did call the police for a person that was 100% allowed to be in the neighborhood…. we’re talking about him calling too much, and comparing them, yet ignore the fact that he reported a non-crime happening, which more than explains his excessive calling patterns.
You missed the point. There were no “excessive calling patterns”. The whole point of a neighborhood watch is to call the police BEFORE there is any criminal action. Their whole reason for existing is to report people like Trayvon.
And did you miss the fact that they had a recent string of burglaries? The fact that the kid had a legal right to be there does not at all imply that his presence was not suspicious.
“we’ve called the police once, for vandalism, in 10 years”….
Ahhh the old liberal “if I didn’t see it, it must not be happening” or “I don’t experience the same thing so you must be lying or exaggerating”
Good luck with all of that!
Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved. You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. (I call it by this name because I once discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous name I imply greater importance to myself, and to the effect, than it would otherwise have.)
Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect works as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.
In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story-and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read with renewed interest as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about far-off Palestine than it was about the story you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.
That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I’d point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to you, you soon discount everything they say. In court, there is the legal doctrine of falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus, which means untruthful in one part, untruthful in all.
But when it comes to the media, we believe against evidence that it is probably worth our time to read other parts of the paper. When, in fact, it almost certainly isn’t. The only possible explanation for our behavior is amnesia.
I see this in medicine all the time. However, what’s really frightening is when a person is slowly becoming well-versed in another field and starts to recognize the same gross manipulation of data and other facts. That’s when you really know how widespread Gell-Mann Amnesia is.
For me, the new field has been economics (both health care and larger economic issues). The shifting narratives and interpretations we’re supposed to rely on is completely manipulated to frame it the way the media wants us to see it. Anything centrally-planned for the “benefit” of the poor, ignorant masses is wonderful. That’s why, for instance, most Americans think the Chinese economy is bigger than ours, when in fact it is a distant second and will probably remain so. The media loves China. They also love nationalized health care- and the misrepresentation of THAT is staggering.
However, even I was totally sucked in with the Martin situation. While I could tell the Duke lacrosse fiasco was wrong from the start, this one had me fooled. I remember discussing it at the dinner table with the kids as a lesson on how racism exists where you least expect it.
Well, now they’re learning an entirely different lesson.
Dana, excellent points. I recall a conversation I had with a lawyer, about 20 years ago, regarding media coverage of various events. I work in aerospace and I was irate that a news report I’d seen about a plane crash, in they they had mis-identified the crashed aircraft as a Boeing 737 when from the included photo it very clearly was not; it turned out to be a McDonnell-Douglas MD80. Obvious difference: The 737 has engines under the wings; the MD80 has them on the tail. Even someone who knows little about planes should be able to spot that. He told me that, in a lot of coverage of courtroom trials he’d seen, it was very common to find basic mistakes like mis-identifying prosecution witnessess as defense witnesses and vice versa. I’m far from a legal expert, but even I know the difference between a prosecution witness and a defense witness.
I see this too in my line of work as well involving innocuous subject matters. In fact, I was just discussing this phenomenon, that I didn’t know had been given a name, with my coworkers the other day. If the media gets things wrong about innocuous subjects that they could easily get right with five minutes of Googling, how can we take what they publish about things that really matter, that really have an impact on our lives and the world?
Is it laziness? Incompetence? Or is it something else? If it is something else, deliberately manipulating the story as it appears is the case here, For what purpose? More ratings? More money? To set an agenda to shape public opinion? If it is either of the former, it is contemptible. If it is the latter, then it dangerous.
I don’t know what happened to journalism, but somewhere along the line it changed from reporting to interpretation.
I recently viewed the entire collection of Pulitzer Prize winning photos in chronological order and the metamorphosis is stunning. They used to be striking, self-contained images that instantly told a story in a very compelling way. However, in the past 20 years or so they’ve changed to the point where you must understand the context to even figure out the point of the picture. They’re part of the larger narrative and the artistry is nearly gone.
It is this very thing that caused me to stop reading/listening to MSM anything. In my case, it’s aviation that I know more than that average person and when the MSM would report or discuss anything having to do with it, I would shake my head at the outright ignorance on display. But for me it DID translate quickly and effectively to realize that if they’re that ignorant on a subject I know something about, they are therefore ignorant in ALL areas they report. Thus, my contempt for those who go into “journalism” and also noting the types of people who pursue a degree in same.
It was like a huge door opening up when I realized the conversations I had while in college with people majoring in journalism. Always, after said conversation, I left shaking my head saying, “What an idiot” about the person I was trying to speak with.
They walk among us, they think they are smart. They have a degree in journalism. Dan Rather…Brian Williams…all of them. Idiots. I do see though that they are losing major audiences nationwide and people are turning to alternate sources for their news.
Due to personal circumstances I’ve been in the know on a few significant news events for the last 50 years, from the Free Speech Movement in 1960s to the defense of Europe during the cold war.
Always, always, I would discover that both print and TV news media had significant errors in their story. Usually the true story was more interesting or spectacular. The true story was also not very hard to find. From these personal observations I concluded that much of the news media workers are both stupid and lazy. It is a platitude to observe that stupid lazy people are more susceptible to their emotions than facts.
Not until the internet became available was I able to search for information that made sense from multiple sources.
I wish they were just stupid and lazy, but the problem with this case is that the press went out of its way to distort the evidence that they had managed to collect. That implies intentional lying, which is considerably more unsettling to me than just crappy reporting.
I have NEVER read a description of any event that I personally witnessed that was accurate—except for sports scores, because they are really important…and there are too many witnesses.
In over 28 years in the military, I was a part of various actions that were reported on the news, and reporters NEVER got it right.
I’d be less annoyed by this fact if I thought it was out of pure stupidity, but it is not. They frame their camera shots to fit their preconceived notion of the story, only talk to people who say what they want to hear, and mis-quote or ignore you when they don’t like what you say.
My realization that the media was in the habit of lying to me came years ago, fortunately. I voted for Al Gore because the media told me Bush was an idiot. I believed it when the media told me Bush stole the election by taking it to the courts. I started getting suspicious when I realized that Gore had gone to the courts first, but that was being ignored while we were treated to endless coverage of the excessive makeup worn by the woman who was Florida Secretary of State, and a Republican, as if those were both crimes. Then I read that the NYT, WAPO, et al. were commissioning an audit by a big-8 accounting firm that would show that Gore had actually won. After being consumed by the 9-11 story, hardly anyone noticed when the results emerged were published a year later, showing that Bush had won, albeit narrowly. The papers helped a lot by running the story on the back pages (after paying millions for it), and the networks helped even more by totally surpressig it.
I still have many friends and relatives who “wonder what happened to me”. Well, I just learned to be skeptical of of what the media wanted me to believe, and think for myself. More should try it.
Up to the point of confrontation, Zimmerman, even getting out of his truck, commit zip offense. Following someone that you’ve never seen is no crime or infraction. Martin may have been annoyed and could have asked Zimmerman what Zimmerman was doing. A couple of points need to be interjected:
1. The timeline gave Martin ample time to get back to his future father-in-law. See http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back
2. Martin was simply not the cute 12-year old. See his facebook accounts, the reason he was even in Sanford and consider the culture created by the Democrats within the black community. Or watch Judge Judy or The First 48 or read the annual crime reports for cities like Miami and Chicago.
This will, in all likelihood, see FL charging Zimmerman with something. Then a repeat of the Casey Anthony verdict, a case that failed the beyond a reasonable doubt. Then Holder riding in and charging some violation. Then a civil suit against Zimmerman, Sanford and the State of Florida. In other words – they’re using the Rodney King template.
Then a civil suit against Zimmerman, Sanford and the State of Florida.
Sanford and the state have sovereign immunity; they probably will pro forma sue Zimmerman if they can, but he’s got little money. Many of us are guessing that the Martin family and lawyers are so insistent on Zimmerman getting arrested because that removes his civil liability protection … and then they can including the community’s homeowner’s associate, which are the only set of reachable big pockets. Which could then result in an end to formal Neighborhood Watch programs, as a condition of getting insurance.
Zimmerman getting arrested will not cause him to lose his civil immunity. Only if he is convicted will he lose his civil immunity. There are civil immunity protections in laws like Florida’s Stand your ground laws. If it is ruled a self defense shooting, you cannot be sued in civil court.
So no wrongful death suit?
Nope. Under Florida law, you are immune from civil liability unless your use of force in self-defense was unlawful.
Zimmerman won’t be sued for wrongful death, if acquitted. The vultures will find some other specious grounds, and win.
Yes! I have wondered why there has been little discussion of the money side of the rhetoric. (Other than the obvious benefit to the Jacksons and Sharptons collections.)
We have all fallen for the MLM’s willful, intentional deceit, Mr. Owens. Only those who willfully and intentionally refuse to acknowledge that deceit once they have been shown it – thereby supporting and participating in it – carry any actual guilt because of it. You do not, Mr. Owens, because you were given eyes that actually see rather than eyes that willfully and intentionally close when evidence reveals truthless agendas.
A large number of people reading my comments yesterday on J. Christian Adams’ article (“’Not Newsworthy’…”) took my advice (oh, that my own children would) and visited Another Slow News Day’s coverage of this unfortunate incident. I have added Mr. Owens’ article to the list citations on the following page (one of several pages featuring citations about the Zimmerman/Martin incident).
http://anotherslownewsday.wordpress.com/culture/black-culture/
“I won’t get fooled again” — yeah, nice forward looking wish. But not real. In reality you will be fooled again sometime. It’s human nature. Just remember the better lesson you gave yourself here: Don’t stick with being fooled for the sake of not admitting a mistake.
Does anyone know why Martin simply didn’t run or walk to the house he was staying at? Wasn’t it only a minute away? And he apparently didn’t feel so threatened as to call 911 (if he had it might have been straightened out).
…or tell his girlfriend (since he was already on the phone with her at the time) to get help? No, he had to try to be “macho” and confront the guy who was following him, or so it seems.
Alan..
Right you probably are…thats a basic, expected, almost GUARANTEED response youre going to get from a kid like that, and most reasonable people would recognize that reality.
Thats why, when you carry a FIREARM, you limit your exposure/contact/involvement with such people and situations as much as possible. A prudent, responsible armed person monitoring Treyvon knows these things, and would have stayed in the car, rather than fuel the punks testosterone and risk an escalation of “stupidity” into violence.
A dumbass more worried about who is “right” will find himself fighting for his life, and be forced to USE that gun to get out of a situation a smarter man would have EASILY avoided….
It was in the early 80′s that I caught Dan Rather shading the truth about a story. I went from watching CBS nearly every night to almost never.
I don’t know what happened that night between the two men. But I do know what happened afterwards proves yet again that if you trust the media to give you the straight facts with out spin, especially when the spin can hurt a Republican or help a Democrat, then you are a fool. Making your mind up based solely on MSM reports shows a lack of critical thinking and exhibits a trust that is not justified.
Scolism at its best in this piece. Simply put, shoot an unarmed child you are stalking, against request of authorities and the person dies is murder. Since when is walking into the line of battle self defense. King to Martin in Reverse 20 Years later. Strange Martin King was murdered and 20 years ago this month the Rodney King Riots occured and what is next, Trayvon Martin Riots?
against request of authorities
Except something the media never mentions is that Zimmerman’s reply to the dispatcher saying “We don’t need you to do that” (continue following Martin) was “OK” and after a few seconds based on the microphone noise Zimmerman stopped moving while the dispatcher collect more information and they arranged how he’d meet up with the police who were on the way.
Wow, you sure do fit an awful lot of nonsense into a short post.
1) Calling a 17 year old a “child” is a bit of a stretch, especially when he’s got four inches on you
2) Zimmerman wasn’t “stalking” him, he was attempting to guide the police he’d called to the proper location. That is neither legally nor morally problematic. There’s absolutely no evidence that he continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him it wasn’t necessecary.
3) Zimmerman didn’t “walk into battle”. His claim, backed up thus far by the available evidence, is that the assault was initiated by Martin.
You seem intent on holding on to an interpretation of events that is contradicted by evidence. That’s irrational.
This is depressing. If even an actively blogging “conservative” is taken in by the MSM’s inevitable and clumsy “editing” of a story to help Obama, what hope is there that average Joe America has any clue what’s going on? How on earth could you possibly uncritically believe a single word the MSM put out–have you been hiding under a rock for the last 20 years?
I follow the advice in Glengarry Glen Ross, “Never open your mouth till you know what the shot is.”
What I don’t understand is why nobody in the media has asked the question “What the heck was Trayvon Martin doing, when he was in a locked, gated community wandering around in the rain?” I live near several locked, gated communities, and I never just climb the fence, or slip in behind a car. I suppose I could, but I would be afraid of getting arrested for trespassing. If it was raining outside, even more reason to ask “why?”
Basically, you did it because you’re an unreflective chuckle-head.
Now that the dinosaur media have created their perfect racial storm, now that the irreverend Al Sharpton has brought his inflammatory traveling circus to town, and now that Mr. Zimmerman has been forced into hiding in fear of his life, can anyone believe that this situation has anything to do with justice?
Here’s a thought experiment. Suppose Zimmerman is charged, goes to trial, and a jury of his peers finds him not guilty. Justice has been served. Does the lynch mob go home satisfied? Do you still think this is about justice?
Good “mea culpa”. I originally got suckered by the media as well, and have since changed my opinion. You may, however, want to re-check some of your assertions again, because there are a couple that are obviously wrong based just on the 911 tape.
In fact, listening to the recording of his 911 call, you can tell that he got out of his truck while still on the phone with the dispatcher. This led to the exchange that the media twisted into their claim that he “disobeyed the dispatcher’s order” not to follow:
Man, you not only bought it hook, line and sinker, you swallowed the whole Japanese fleet of fishing boats. You should change ‘naive’ to ‘off the charts gullible’. It makes me wonder how you ‘came around’ after being so certain. Was there a drop in your blog traffic?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, and then again and again and again … you do understand where this is going, right?
Aaaand I messed up closing a couple of quote tags. Is it fixable?
Bob, if you think you’ve ever gotten the truth from any of our mainstream institutions – whether public, political, private, corporate, religious or cultural – you simply haven’t been paying attention.
Welcome to reality…where you have to do your own research…and think for yourself.
Caveat emptor. Take nothing for granted.
The power of having a loud voice as you do, Bob, in a public forum confers great responsibility. You blew it. You shot from the hip.
You’re sorry now but you contributed to a perception of Mr. Zimmerman that can’t be erased. Very serious business. You took something from Mr. Zimmerman, the presumption of innocence. This is not how our country is supposed to work.
What will you do to atone for this error in judgment?
Oh, I dunno. Maybe write an article and have it published in a widely read online news outlet.
Thanks, Bob, you have done what most in the media business will never do.
I think you are still getting ahead of yourself. The narrative has now shifted to make Martin the suspicious character. And we still have no proof that he was doing anything suspicious. It still may be that he was frightened by Zimmerman’s (perhaps legitimate) pursuit. People are now saying that Martin “slipped” behind a group of townhouses. We have no proof that Martin was “casing” the neighborhood, planning a theft. Maybe he was hiding. He had no way of knowing that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watchman and not a thug. Maybe his fear caused his adrenaline to kick in, and he decided to confront the situation. After all, preemptive strike seems to be the order of the day.
I am not saying that Zimmerman was in the wrong. I’m saying Martin may also not have been in the wrong. This may have been a case of mutual suspicion that ended very badly. It does not have to be an either-or situation. But sadly, the unarmed kid is dead. We can’t get his side of the story. So, at least try to be respectful and give him some benefit of the doubt.
I would suggest breaking Zimmerman’s nose and beating his head against the sidewalk was suspicious.
AAAHAAA!
“I won’t get fooled by media again.”
So, Mr. Owens, are you going to become a reclusive Tibetan Monk? That’s a good method for performing your penance.
The Race Industry will never let this die. Sharpton hasn’t even used his bull horn yet, or made any attempt to retract his vehement racist tirades in the Tawana Brawley case.
They already have too much invested, and they’re never apologetic about their foolish transgressions. Why should they change course or tactics when they have the President of the United States and the United States Attorney General encouraging and endorsing their actions?
They want crisis; It justifies their twisted ideology.
The CMA (Communist Media of America) will get a lot of mileage and revenue out of every confrontation they get wind of, that has any hint of two or more races in any conflict, for the foreseeable future.
Damn, that’s close. A little of the old “I was misled” but close enough to an honest “I was wrong”. Anybody need a lamp?
Bob – I’m glad to see you that you’ve manned up and admitted the error of your initial report. That is more than I can say for many of the rush-to-judgment commentators on NRO (VerBruggen, Mac Donald, Lowry) or on Commentary Contentions (Podhoretz, Wehner). Bob, I would always keep in mind the rush-to-judgment on the Duke/LaCrosse case (although KC Johnson thinks otherwise) and I would never ever trust the LSM. (BTW I too got fooled by ABC’s initial airing of the police surveillance tape.) Just remember the adage for the LSM: All the news we can skew to fit our view.
<<>> Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and the facts are coming out proving that. Still, the racist radicals ( Black Panthers, members of Congress, the press ) have not let up. They have tried and convicted him and as recently as a few days ago, the Black Panthers have announced a 10k Dead or Alive Bounty on him. They are promoting death to him and it should NOT keep us silent. I will not let them intimidate me in protecting the likes of a Zimmerman from a lynching. Zimmerman just might be guilty but I will not continue to let a mob intimidate an entire country. White or black, he needs protection, protection from the lynching and protection from an unfair trail. And one way to do that is to fund it.
The take away lesson here is to never step into an unknown. Once Zimmerman lost sight of Martin, he should have backed off, for his own safety.
Clearing your own home or your own neighborhood is a good way to get jacked up.
Stay in your car. Stay in your house. And if you have to move around, stay off the walls or bushes and give yourself some room. Move slowly and deliberately. And if you lose sight of your target, it means you are now the target.
As for Martin. He is on full suspension and he is walking around in a place he does not belong in the rain. The only logical conclusion is that he is looking to rob a house.
Reality – you wrote: “The take away lesson here is to never step into an unknown. Once Zimmerman lost sight of Martin, he should have backed off, for his own safety.” From Tom Maguire’s analysis, it appears to me that Zimmerman did back off. He was walking back to his car when Martin returned to confront him and then punch him in the nose (making Martin the aggressor).
Reading SOME of the comments here gives me a large dose of irony overload.
It is quite apparent that a number of commenters are completely unfamiliar with Bob Owens’ work. From that premise, they scold him based upon his apology and his mea culpa line that “I won’t be fooled again”.
They then rush to a completely erroneous conclusion that Bob routinely or blindly accepts the PALM Press (propaganda and lies ministry) version of facts.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
In fact, Bob has been at the forefront of some of the most diligent examinations and ultimately the exposure of fraudulent media “stylings” presented to an otherwise unwitting public…for years.
I know, before I came to this site to do my writings, I first spent most of my time at Bob’s site. He exposed from that site AP distortions, Reuters distortions, photoshopped pictures, and pieced together evidence of some of the grossest miscarriages of journalistic fraud …in Iran, against our troops, and here at home, in general.
What “fooled” him this time, was the overwhelming lack of integrity and the clear malice aforethought by NBC, ABC and the rest TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE IN ORDER TO INTENTIONALLY STOKE RACIAL ANIMUS.
Photoshopping pictures out of Israel, staging events with Green Helmet Guy, showing an ambulance with a hole in the roof attributed to an Israeli smart bomb, photoshopping a magazine cover that reddens the eyes and intentionally tries to make him look sinister, passing forged documents off as real by Dan Rather/Mapes in order to intentionally try to bring down a sitting President, creating a phony police captain in Iraq who was projected to be in multiple places at once…and many, many, many more instances of journalistic fraud were examined, and in some cases, PRIMARILY brought to light by Bob Owens.
If there is anyone who does not need a lecture on not trusting the propaganda and lies ministry, it is Bob Owens.
He is a great gift to the movement that EXPOSES journalistic fraud and should be applauded and thanked for his enormous contributions in that realm. He is unparalleled in his talents related to those lies and that propaganda when it comes to slander against our troops and law enforcement.
Bob Owens apologized because he is a stand-up guy, who missed ONCE, and as a stand-up guy owned up to that miss.
From my perspective, I understand perfectly why a guy of complete integrity would want to openly recognize his mistake. But, Bob Owens doesn’t need to apologize for who he is as a man. I would stand shoulder to shoulder with him any time and take on all comers who would say otherwise.
He ought to be thanked daily for all the good he does. He’s a hero, not a goat.
And…if you are going to jump on somebody for making a judgement without all the facts, there might be a mirror in your glass house that just might be worth picking up today.
Okay, you cynics. You’ve been forthrightly spanked. You can now line up neatly behind the cfbleachers. NEATLY, I said. And no butting!
Well said. Thanks for saving me the time.
Bob, you made a mistake like all of us do from time to time, but at least your recovered your sense of objectivity and healthy skepticism. For that, kudos. Most never do.
Dont let the bastards get to you.
Your assertion doesn’t seem to square with the facts, as stated by Bob Owens.
My assertion is that Bob Owens has done more to expose propaganda and lies than most people have even read about the topic.
He doesn’t need a lecture from people who have done far less work on the subject matter.
It would be like a twenty handicapper lecturing Steve Stricker how to putt, after he missed one putt badly on a fast green in a big tournament.
My assertion stands.
I think that we all need to realize that this is about Trayvon’s parents wanting justice for the death of their son. Plain and simple. Now all anyone wants is for Zimmerman to have some sort of trial. Now if he is found innocent we all have to accept that. All we want is for him to go before the court of law and let them decide. That’s all. The problem a lot of us are having is that he is walking around freely. Now if a judge decides he is innocent then there is nothing we can do about it and we have to accept it.
That isn’t the way that the law works.
We don’t simply put people on trial if we suspect that they might have done something. Prosecutors have ethical responsibilities to believe that the person is actually guilty before they put them on trial: “Prosecutors have the ethical and legal obligation to ensure that innocent persons are not unfairly charged and that the evidence against a suspect is, in the judgment of the prosecutor, sufficient to support a specific charge.”
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=193094
We don’t roll the dice with people’s lives.
All we want is for him to go before the court of law and let them decide. That’s all. The problem a lot of us are having is that he is walking around freely.
You want a Show Trial.
You want to live in a lawful society, you have to put up with laws you don’t like. And under that law, police may not arrest or try Zimmerman unless they have reason to believe his use of force was unlawful.
BTW, it will cost Zimmerman about $100,000 to defend himself from your Show Trial. Since its all for your entertainment anyway, what say you pony up the $100k ?
The Martin’s lawyer doesnt’ want a trial, he wants an arrest, and after that he can go after the gated community and Zimmerman for money, not for justice. The Martins are just an excuse for his billable hours.
Justice has nothing to do with it. Justice was what the police were after when they questioned Zimmerman for 5 hours, and concluded that it was a good shoot after Martin assaulted Zimmerman.
This is a vital point. At every step in the police – judicial process, an every increasing barrier must be passed to limit a suspect’s freedom. The standard for arrest is probable cause, the police must possess probable information that a crime has been committed and they have the guilty party. They face the obvious time problem that a guilty person may flee, and/or hard evidence, and witnesses will be lost. Prosecutors have more time and resources, thus take more time to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Mr. Owen’s current article, if true, shows why no arrest was made. The police determined a homicide, but it was claimed to be self defense, and no contrary information existed. No arrest was warranted. At this stage, the law is working, but the possibility that new information may come forward still exists. If so, Mr. Zimmerman may face legal issues.
However, we know enough to clearly state that the media are either liars or incompetents. With time and reflection, they have published serious non truths, either deliberately or through stupidity. There are no other options. We know that racial feelings have been inflamed to a fever pitch, apparently for nothing. Race appears to have nothing to do with the motivation to kill. It appears that the Stand Your Ground law has no bearing on this case. There are a ton of unknowns and we may learn more.
If this situation is aligned with the beer summit, (Black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., white Cambridge, Mass., police Sgt. James Crowley, who had arrested him for disorderly conduct, and President Obama, who declared on national TV that the police had “acted stupidly.”), their combined actions frightens me that our Chief Law Officer is both impetuous and racially biased. He judges, and blows off, half cocked, primarily considering the color of a person’s skin. That is dangerous.
Now all anyone wants is for Zimmerman to have some sort of trial. Now if he is found innocent we all have to accept that.
All I want is for Eric Holder to be put on trial. If he is found innocent we all have to accept that. But there needs to be a trial to find him either innocent or guilty.
That’s not what the law is about.
But then, you don’t even know how a trial works, so what can we expect?
Unreal. “if a judge decides he is innocent”
Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that, if he’s found innocent, you will decide the trial was rigged?
Yeah, good luck with all that. We know what the outcome will be. We’ve been given notice. If Corey doesn’t come to the “correct” conclusions, cities are going to burn and people are going to die. I hope I’m wrong, though.
No, Bugs, you’re not wrong.
I have witnesses and documentation to my statements that this type of behavior would escalate with the election of the ignorant, petulant, recalcitrant, individual now parading around as President.
It’s just history doing what it has always done; Repeat itself.
I don’t get it, Bob. How’d you get suckered that badly? When I first heard of this story my very first thought was that strictly because it was racially charged and involved a gun, the press was going to sensationalize it and the real truth would be devilishly hard to get at. Now I can almost understand falling for the narrative if you actively sought out all the evidence you could then and you had NBC’s and ABC’s gross deceptions as your main intel, but even so, in this kind of story you have to expect a lot of the details will be one-sided, especially if it plays up a hot-button issue, and you need to go digging for the real truth. You know they’re not trustworthy sources, and at any rate you should have used the same skeptic filter that anyone passing along that edited 911 clip should have: asking to hear the whole clip.
Trusting the clip had not been maliciously edited is something most people would get a pass for anyway, because in spite of the MSM’s complete lack of journalistic integrity this specific kind of lying is rare. I would have expected any missing context to be in the other parts of the call, not left out in an “ellipsis” edit stitching two completely different paragraphs together. Even though NBC’s been caught messing with the truth before, this was the worst thing I’ve ever heard of them doing. But the point is your skepticism should have been on red alert from minute one just due to the nature of the story, and it was not. Look for the missing context first, find the full audio, then decide.
These days my BS meter is so overloaded by the media I’ve had to install a second one just to keep up with the demand. Seriously, the questions “What have they done to spin this” and “Are they just repeating someone else’s spin” never entered your head? Those are the first two questions that should be on anybody’s checklist when dealing with the press–even with ideological bias aside, our miserable excuse for a free press has slacked off on so many standards it’s a wonder they don’t write all their stories in crayon.
Bob, you didn’t just drop the ball on this one. You were watching the girl in the red dress and let the ball hit you right in the nose.
Good to see you ‘man up’ and confess to your wrong-headed conclusions. The trouble I have with is your jumping to conclusions in the first place – you were taking the word of the MSM to base your fact findings on. You should know better that when it comes to dealing with issues that involve race the truth is hard to find.
I remember watching Geraldo Rivera calling the Duke Lacrosse guys the ‘Durham Dirtbags’ on national TV (Fox) when word of that story hit the airways. To this day I can’t find any retraction or apology that Geraldo has offered up to the Duke students. What is even stranger is I’ve yet to find video on YouTube of him calling them dirtbags. Did that video get scrubbed?
I think people jump to conclusions when they see a story that they want to turn out in a particular way. Given time the real facts come out – and you know what they say about assumptions…
Now will the LVMPD get an apology now that Erik Scott’s family has dropped their lawsuit?
There was a piece on Zimmerman’s 911 call where it was alleged he used a racial slur. My understanding from a piece I saw on tv was that that allegation (heralded by Sharpton, et. al.,) was refuted through audio analysis where it was determined he was saying it was “cold”. I heard that portion of the 911 call, and it sounded like Zimmerman was walking and talking. In your narrative, are you saying he was in his van while he was making the 911 calls and he said it was “cold” while sitting in the van, and then left the van only after making the calls?
It seems that blacks are full of hate and racism. I don’t understand this. I’m caucasian, but grew up in a black neighborhood, went to inner city schools which were 80% black, and had lots of black friends.
Yet, the same people I grew up with are screaming about slavery, poor education, racism…
There was no slavery in my community. All of the caucasians treated the blacks the same as any other caucasian.
I climbed up out of the poverty I grew up in. So did many of my black friends. We worked our butts off and put ourselves through college. The ones that didn’t, blacks and caucasians alike, chose their path. They chose not to improve their lives.
So, where is all of this hatred coming from and where are all of the young blacks learning it from??
They are learning it from black community leaders who perpetuate it for their own personal and political gain. The same people, like Jesse Jackson and Barack Oblama live like kings, all the while, stirring up hatred between the races, religions, and financial classes.
That is un-American and socialistic. These promoters of hate need to leave our nation. There are plenty of nations around the world where their type of morals will be welcome.
Thanks for the retraction but all the retractions in the world will not make up for the fact that you fools in the media have stomped on Zimmerman’s civil rights and convicted a possibly innocent man.
Libel and muckracking. This is Obama’s progressives’ “vision” for a “Brave New World” where we’re all racists and guilty, peroid.
VOTE FOR OUR FUTURE, VOTE RON PAUL!
WE STAND WITH ISRAEL!
I’m glad to see at least one other person understands ‘The Knockout Game’ – in the Gangsta culture in which the ‘wispy young Trayvon’ was immersed, this is a status game of points. Another commenter mentioned that Trayvon had phone in hand ready to document the knockout after the fact, to secure the points.
This is a deadly game, using deadly force, played only by black ‘youths’. See the recent video of the poor drunken white boy in Baltimore who was decked gratuitously, head smacking the pavement like a pumpkin, and then set upon, robbed, and stripped by a mob of ‘youths’, while others stood around to film and document the knockout.
A blow to the head is deadly force, whether from a fist or the pavement. When you see a ‘youth’ coming at you with fist cocked, you are not trained to believe, in America, that his intent is to knock you out and put you down, and you are wide open and helpless. Black ‘youth’ mob violence is happening all over America for years now, it is blood sport and a culturally ingrained game, and we had better learn a proper defensive mindset, use reasonable suspicion (please see John Derbyshire’s ‘The Talk’), and prepare to block, duck, kick, or shoot if confronted by such a threat.
We need to shine the light on the ‘Knockout Game’ and the culture that fosters it, and show zero tolerance for such race-based debasement of the American culture and the Human condition.
This tragedy seems now to have been the deadly collision of a suspicious adult with assumptions that triggered an aggressive teenager’s poor judgment. Who is to blame? Whoever threw the first blow.
Zimmerman was a captain on the Neighborhood Watch program…..He had every right to follow someone he was supicious of…..He had a conceal carry permit…..He had the right to carry a firearm…..Under Florida’s Make my Stand Law if attacked he had every right to defend himself with the same firearm he was legally allowed to carry…..Zimmerman did at no time confront Martin with his pistol…..He only drew his pistol and fired in self defense after he was attacked and down on the ground…..The liberal news media and the left wing agitators needed a score for Obama…..They threw up photo’s of an adolescent kid in defense of Martin….When more recent photo’s do not portray him as such an innocent looking kid any more but more of a wanna be hoody gansta….When blacks kill whites nothing much is said…..When blacks kill blacks nothing much comes of it…..When white or hispanics kill blacks which is very uncommon……Then…..Hey It’s a big Deal….The story sell’s Newspaperd and much Air Time to the benefit of George Soros and the 35 major news networks he is in control of……Like Time Magazine…..It also scores point with B. Obama’s re-election campaign…..”If I would have had a Son he would have looked exactly like Martin”…..Sob…..Sob…..OMG….Let’s all go out and vote for Obama!
Your problem, Mr. Owens, is NOT that you believed some deliberately slanted news.
Your problem, Mr. Owens, is one that is shared by far too many Americans.
Your problem is that you presumed you had a right to form an opinion based on news reports.
Let me say that another way: The problem isn’t that you believed the media, and based an opinion on that.
The problem is that you thought you had a right to an opinion on a matter which:
This kind of thing is a matter for a JURY; a jury which has access to all of the evidence which our media WILL NEVER PROVIDE, even IF they were responsible reporters of truth.
We need to stop second-guessing juries and worse (FAR worse) forming opinions on the guilt or innocence of our fellow citizens before they’ve even been brought to trial!
Mr. Owen, you didn’t exercise poor judgment in believing too much in the media.
You exercised poor judgement in believing to much in YOU.
I forgot to add, that you are every bit as bad as the slanted media you decry.
Pot, meet kettle.
So, OJ is innocent? And we have no idea who killed JFK because there was never a trial?
Right?
There’s a lot the general public doesn’t know about the O.J. trial.
Were you aware that one of the blood samples taken from O.J. was missing – unaccounted for – for two weeks, and was finally found in the suit coat pocket of one of the detectives?
Were you aware that the blood smear from the back gate (O.J.’s) was found to be full of the preservatives used in blood draw vials? (It’s a naturally occurring blood substance, but was at levels thousands of times higher than naturally occurs in blood.)
The whole scenario was carefully orchestrated by people with a certain agenda and served up fully cooked to a naive public.
I believe Martin was doing what Zimmerman suspected, scouting the neighborhood. Why else meander through the area instead of just walking by Zimmerman and saying ‘hi’.
“The media had either lied about how often he called, or purposefully compressed the timeline.”?
No, . . . in the main, and generally speaking, compressing the timeline or audio, is done by incrementally and regularly taking out bits, say milliseconds, while leaving all of the essential data in relative place and position, . . . cutting out an essential chunk in apparent change of meaning—essential to import and moral integrity—is rather, a type of obliteration.
Zimmy ignored a police dispatcher’s order to cease and desist. Armed with a gun, he left his home to chase down an unarmed pedestrian who was minding his own business. At best, it’s voluntary manslaughter.
No Dan, that’s just disobeying an officer of the law. Voluntary manslaughter implies he intended to use deadly force against Martin, instead of simply having the gun on him for his own protection like he normally did. If he was ordered by the police to desist, his failure to do so is a separate matter. The details of the fatal altercation itself are all that matter, and after all we’ve seen I think that’s still pretty muddy. But way to miss the point about not jumping to conclusions there.
Dan: “Zimmy ignored a police dispatcher’s order to cease and desist.”
Simple BS. He was given no such order. If a policeman tells you he doesn’t need for you to stop your car, does that mean you must not stop your car?
What was that “order” from the dispatcher?
The audio I heard was “You don’t need to do that.”
Telling someone they “don’t need” to do something is not the same as saying “don’t do that”. It was not even worded as a request, much less an order.
Mr. Allison;
Which major media firm are you the editor for?
You are either an idiot or a liar.
Has anyone thought about Florida State Statute 843.20? Or does it matter what the law is?
That statute does not appear to apply in this case.
1) A dispatcher is not a LEO or any of the types of person listed in the statute.
b) “We don’t need you to do that” is not an order.
iii) Even if I’m wrong in 1 and b, there is still no evidence (that we’re aware of) that he continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to. In fact, from the 911 tape, it’s pretty apparent that he didn’t keep following Martin, because at one point he clearly states that he didn’t know where Martin was.
Martin ran away from Zimmerman up until the time Zimmerman caught up with him. We know that. How did the two meet if Zimmerman did not pursue?
A Cite:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/the_knockout_game_racial_violence_and_the_conspicuous_silence_of_the_media.html
911 dispatchers do not give legally binding orders – besides which, “We don’t need you to do that…” is not an order, it’s a suggestion.
I don’t know you, Bob Owens, but I admire your words here.
I make two or three mistakes per day, typically, maybe more, maybe less.
On the incident itself, I am extremely skeptical of those who posit the young Martin merely lost in the neighborhood. It sounds as if he deliberately confronted Zimmerman when he could have absconded. That of course would not have made Zimmerman’s motives ‘pure’ by default, but it would have stopped any incident from occurring.
I, sadly, believe the comments about the game of assaulting an innocent victim while recording the act. If that is what happened, I don’t see how Zimmerman can be charged with even manslaughter. However, seeing the piece on the wire about Holder promising a thorough investigation, I suspect that Zimmerman’s future is already compromised.
What kind of fool does it take to believe a single word the media spews out?
Look in the mirror Bob, if your any color even close to white, even if your Latino, Hispanic or Asian you are the blacks enemy and you deserve punishment in their eyes. The Main stream media and the liberals believe this also but think if they support it they won’t be touched.
Did Not Holder once reply to someone about whites getting the short end of things “You whites haven’t suffered enough yet.”
You see, that’s the blacks and Obama supporters agenda, not fixing the economy, not defending American values and way of life but Punishment for all the sins real or imagined by whites on the African/black Race.
Much like the Muslim’s do the blacks wish to punish whites without the whites being able to defend or fight back. You deserve a beat down cause your white skin says so.
It’s the old stand still while we kill you rule of these classes of folks.
Carrying this to it’s inevitable conclusion, whites will band together and start fighting back.
Blacks are at about an estimated 12.6% of the population without government support from the current administration or the U. N. it will be a short, brutal and nasty war that will end in genocide and ethnic cleansing.
I don’t wish to see that happen but I won’t run away or stand by while I’m being beaten by some asshole with a mental problem, I’ll do a Zimmerman, throw away the gun and disappear.
Whites are already fighting back, or at least preparing to do so. The #1 selling item last Black Friday was guns. The local gun range offers CCW training classes at least once a week, and according to the employees nearly all of them are full.
I’ve long maintained that the recent spike in “stand your ground” and “castle doctrine” laws (now in ~30 states) is a direct result of ongoing black savagery. So many whites, Asians and Hispanics were outraged at blacks viciously assaulting them anywhere and everywhere (including their own homes), then playing the “ghetto lottery” by suing those who fought back, that the legislatures saw the need for shifting the legal advantage to the victims.
As for ethnic cleansing, that’s already happened on a small scale, though not by whites. Entire sections of Los Angeles have been swept clean of blacks in recent years — by the Mexicans. Not swilling the PC Kool-Aid certainly played a role there. If blacks think the Mexicans will join them in their kill-whitey quest, they are grossly (and perhaps fatally) mistaken.
And that’s why they are charging George Zimmerman with second degree murder: It’s the right of self defense, particularly against “protected group” assailants, that is truly on trial.
Is there any evidence trevernious paid for the skittles that night?
Guilt does strange things when you believe you are being pursued when now man pursues.
The media? I have a simpler explanation: you weren’t there.
Here’s what I might believe: a person was shot. Another person admitted they did it. My insight stops there, because so does everyone else’s outside law enforcement. We engage people to handle such matters. We do not try cases outside of courts. I am not in a hurry. Let events unfold as they will.
Word’s just out the special prosecutor will level criminal charges, as yet unannounced, against Zimmerman.
When (if ever) will criminal charges be leveled against the Black Panthers I wonder?
When pigs fly.
Democrats have been flying for decades.
You are to be commended for your willingness to admit your error. It is no doubt a painful lesson in the wisdom found in specifically NOT believing what the MSM is spouting and as they say “admitting you have a problem is the beginning of recovery”
Too bad the vast majority in the media, and all on the left, refuse to seek help.
It is so sickening that the MSM has been so deceitful in this entire situation….There will be blood, on their hands, because there is simply no way that justice can be done unless Zim. is totally aquitted….He committed no crime in Fla. Maybe in NY or ILL or Calif….”the three most dangerous places to visit, add DC”…and then Zim would be in Jail….On trunpted up charges, but here in Fla. He is exeronated….Period…And there is going to be serious bloodshed when they have to say “we have no Case agin Zim”….and we can lay all violence to the feet of the Lying scum botton feeders, the MSM, and esp. NBC
I tell ya what. If I had a someone following me everywhere I went; calling on his cell phone; talking on his cell phone while watching me. I would “stand my ground” and shoot him and ask questions later . . . Mexican or not.
Of course, we know that both parties are trying their hardest to make cover for yet another hispanic gone wild. Why has no one asked this idiots immigration status.
To 64 Bud.
What an idiotidc leftist troll you are.
If somebody was following me, I would not shoot him, and stand your ground would not support me if I did. Neither would I attack them and pound their head on the pavement, as martin did. I would simply ask the person why they were follwing me, state I was not planning on doing anything wrong, and ask them to please stop, or explain why they wont. I suspect that after a few words, a polite martin could have convinced zimmerman he was no threat, and the whole thing would have ended. At the worste, if the 2 just stood there looking at each other, or arguing without throwing any punches, until the cops arrived, the cops would have settled things. If martin had done that, he would be alive today. Instead he got into a fight, escalated that fight to the point where zimmerman legidimately feared for his life and safety, and paid the price.
And your crack about zimmerman not being a citizen because he is hispanic is contemptable. I find it interesting that the most outrageously racist and biased comments always seem to come from leftists, as they simultaneously claim the right is racist.
More recent media malpractice is documented right here at PJ Media:
http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/04/10/no-attention-for-daylight-highway-stabbing-in-alabama/
http://evilbloggerlady.blogspot.com/2012/04/from-criminal-defense-view-point-george.html Zimmerman did everything wrong from a criminal defense perspective, yet his story is holding up.
It is good not to jump to conclusions either way on a criminal case, other than to presume that an accused is innocent until proven guilty and that the burden for proving the case is with the government.
I fear George Zimmerman will find that Justice is not blind on this case.
I say this reluctantly, but with the present vigilanti mentality and calls for violence against all whites being made by the New Black Panthers and others, keeping in mind the recent “flash mob” black on white violence in Wisconsin, Philadelphia and other locations. any white man in this country not legally arming himself to protect himself and his loved ones is an idiot. When you are legally armed, you can walk not in fear but with confidence, which by itself can defuse the situation. I don’t mean just firearms. I carry a firearm and a pepper spray, and/or a taser at almost all times (not where it is illegal to carry). If confronted, I have the option of lethal or unleathal means of defending myself or others. If Zimmerman had had a taser or a pepper spray, he might not have had to use his pistol.
Everyone gets fooled by the left’s race game until they figure it out.
My dad told me to look at the solution being proposed by the story teller or “victim” elitist to see if the story is real or not. In this case, the end game or solution was the left’s effort to end legal protections of self defence. It’s a European socialist wannabe thang.
I had to ptl for a 2012 journalist apologizing and setting the record straight. It is commendable and I applaud this writer. This z-man/t-martin tragedy is just that; a tragedy. I wish mr zimmerman had carried pepper-spray or a taser. I hate that a person lost their life…and over some conflict that IF both would simply have valued character, honoring authority, respectful of rules and protocol…could have been resolved differently. Tragic still is that Black America wants it to be about race. When killing occurs, does it only matter to you and I if “the wrong color kills one of ours”?!? If a Black man kills a White man, we have a disturbing death. It’s sad. Bad. Tragic. BUT no more so than when an Asian kills an Hispanic or a White kills an Indian, or or or…Zimmerman will probably get charged w/ something whether guilty of anything or not. He will have to live his life having taken a young person’s life over “whatever”. Irregardless of color, fathers not fathering and husbands not staying the course is crippling our youth. Our media is so out of control and irresponsible on both sides. Again, thanx to this writer for attempting to write “just the facts ma’am”. BTW, If a Black man kills me, I’m White, PLS don’t make it racial…possibly tragic, definately disturbing, and sad to some…but don’t do “this drama”. “Let US put away all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor and slander along w/ all malice”. “Forgive, that your Heavenly Father may forgive you…me”. Sorry- too long, my bad.
Year after year I see the media, and patrons, fellow citizens deciding the guilt or innocence of one case after the other. With no evidence other than what the media choose to report and/or distort. I understand how it’s a normal reaction to want to ‘figure it out’ like little detectives, who done it, etc.. I have the same inclinations as anyone else. However I do not permit myself to come to conclusions which would further enable bad thinking habits.. the field I’m in professionally requires performing analyses and making decisions based on first hand facts, not pre-digested, pre-interpreted brain trash from another party. How can anyone in the general public or media decide on a damn thing when it comes to discussing a legal case is beyond me. It is nothing more than bovine feces at best. Even the investigators privy to facts in a case have a difficult time reconstructing the sequence of events. How the hell can anyone else say ‘they know he’s guilty or know he’s innocent’ ? The media makes money showcasing tragedies. The more chaos and controversy the better. Like that moron Nazi Grace who carried on for YEARS on the Anthony case, not knowing a damn thing more than some bum drunk in a bar. She was paid a salary, the network made millions in advertising, etc. The media DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN who is innocent or guilty. Period. This is why the last source for me is the internet and I can tell you this Zimmerman case has disgusted me to the last end.. I think I’m ready to go off the grid permanently and become a human being once again.
Excellent article. All the facts you laid out do indeed support a strong self defense case. And that self defense case holds up even under traditional self defense law, with no consideration on the stand your ground law being needed, other than the injunction to not do an arrest if a strong self defense is indicated, which from the facts you give it is.
I sympathize with you for getting it wrong initially based on the biased media reports. The same thing happened to me. I initially thought zimmerman was guilty, but when I heard about the eyewitness report that martin had zimmerman pinned to the ground, pounding his head on the pavement, I started changing my mind. When the later reports of media lies about the doctored 911 transcript, and the erroneous claims of no injury on the police video, I was pretty much convinced zimmerman was innocent.
I suspect now that zimmerman will definitely not be convicted, unless somehow the prosecutor manages to get a completely biased jury. It is even possible that if the prosecutors are completely honest, and not motivated by politics, that zimmerman wont even be charged.
Then we will have to see if there is a reckoning for the biased media, the black panthers, and the racebaiting black leaders and politicians, who tried to railroad an innocent man. As usual George Will had a prescient comment, when very early on he cautioned us this could be another overblown case, like the Duke rape case. He has been proven right.
One thing I’ve learned from all of this is: if you’re White, never shoot a Black man, ever- under any circumstance. Oh, and never draw a cartoon of Mohammad. What I haven’t figured out is what message the note, soon to be pinned on Mr. Zimmerman’s chest, will contain. But I know who’ll sign it.
You couldn’t even wait for evidence in court.
I have no sympathy (or respect) for you.
The Martin family, Asshole Sharpton,, etc. demanded an arrest–and got one. To hell with the facts. Lest anyone downplay the effects of an arrest and trial, Zimmerman will have to post bond, go to court once a month, pee in a cup and avoid bars, lose his right to bear arms, and live in fear of what the Black racists may do to him or his family. I believe the Special Prosecutor gave into mob rule and political expediency.
Can Zimmerman possibly receive a fair trial in front of impartial jurors? No.
Can someone tell me why the Special Prosecutor didn’t leave the decision to arrest to the Grand Jury?
Yes
She was afraid the Grand Jury would apply the law, and see that Mr. Zimmerman, was, for all his stupidity in following Martin on foot, legitimately defending himself from a viscous attack when he shot Trevon.
She either feared riots when no indictment came out, or she feared missing her Media Moment in a sensational case. Hence, no grand jury. She will charge him herself, just to play it safe.
My gut tells me she will railroad Zimmerman to advance her career. This is just way too juicy to let the truth and justice prevail with no indictment.
Its a win/win for her, lots of face-time and curry favor with the beautiful people, network her resume, maybe a Federal judgeship, talk-show host, something….
I just saw that frightening Plastic Cow make her pitch….she’s working it so hard, I almost puked.
Dude is screwed for sure now. This really sucks.
People…THINK the next time you do something stupid…like shadow a punk WHEN YOU DONT HAVE TO.
“no good deed goes unpunished”
As I feared. Zimmerman has no chance of justice. I may contribute to his online defense fund, but I’m impartial enough to admit I don’t KNOW he’s innocent. My gut tells me he is, and my heart is aching for him and his family.
Well, if it’s any consolation, if this blogger’s facts are correct and he can get the facts straight so can any legal team that has passed a bar exam.
I do expert witness work. Here’s what I’ve learned:
1. There are idiots aplenty in working in prosecutor’s offices and defense offices.
2. There are truly evil people in both camps.
3. Idiots often sit on juries.
4. Complete phonies present themselves as experts and get believed.
I don’t have much confidence in our system anymore.
So, this was two people making bad judgement calls and the media twisted it around because of a slow news day and every politician and talking head is using this to further their means.
Seems pretty open and shut in the worst way possible.
Bob,
In one of your paragraphs above you say that Zimmerman didn’t leave his vehicle until after he got off the phone with the dispatcher. That is incorrect.
If you listen to it again, you can hear the sounds of the vehicle chiming because the keys were in the ignition and the door had been opened. A few seconds later you can hear the door close.
During that segment of the call if you listen you can hear Z’s breathing change. The dispatcher asks “are you following him?” to which Z replies “Yeah”.
Z travels 33 seconds away from his vehicle (you can tell by his breathing and the sounds his clothing made). That would have put him approx 165 feet away from where his vehicle was parked. The scene of the shooting was almost exactly 165 feet away from his vehicle.
The question is: What did Z do with the 1:45 to 2:00 that he had between getting off the phone with the dispatcher and actually encountering Martin? He obviously didn’t return to his vehicle. If he had, there would not have been a confrontation.
The continued pursuit of Martin and Z’s actions during that missing two minutes are, I believe, what led to him being charged with second degree murder today and what could ultimately lead to his conviction.
Regardless of the details or outcome of the 2nd-degree murder charges against Mr. Zimmerman, he has a legitimate claim to damages suffered at the hands of the news wings of these companies.
Furthermore, it is illegal in this country to incite violence, which is exactly what these companies have done with their wanton acts of sheer malice. This is not a mistake, this is not negligence, this is a concerted and active attempt to commit what amounts to a criminal act of violence towards a private citizen.
Again they have taken a tragedy and made it about them with their pathetic attempts to drum up ratings. It is no longer about either Trayvon or George because even if Zimmerman turns out to be even worse than the dirty white KKK Grand Dragon they dreamed he would be, the children running the news rooms are the story now, whether they like it or not.
I feel for Mr. Martin and his family, and everyone rushing to judge him is just as guilty. A boy is dead – a mother’s son – and whether a premeditated murder or a terrible, terrible misunderstanding, the news media is guilty of using his death to inflict even more pain. Aside from the moral abomination they have become, they have also crossed the line into what should be considered a very serious criminal matter. Anonymous firings of 23-year old producers is not going to work, either.
you are still wrong. what am i to tell my daughter if if zimmerman was acting as a reasonable person would when he choose to shoot trayvon. I have been telling her for years to be wary of strangers that follow her, especially adult men. The crime watch in our area sends has sent out reports before about men following children around the neighborhood in cars. Normally with a tag line letting us know to tell our children to watch out for a “white van” for example. These has happened a twice in the 7 years i have lived in my current neighborhood. My daughter spend 6 years in martial arts and has a reasonable ability to defend herself. So now I have to tell her it is not ok to run from strange middle aged men that follow you around in a car and then on foot if you go off road to get to safety. Certainly do not be proactive about defending yourself when approached by this individual even though your chances of surviving the situation increase greatly by attacking your would be attacker first. Ignore all those years of martial arts training, Just Yell Fire videos I made you watch and all common sense, because it is now legal for your potential kidnapper/rapist/murderer to shoot you if you defend yourself when they approach you. Great advice for our children.
But the underlying problem here is your profound lack of ethics and basic humanity. You are told and you react? Pavlov would have put you in the highest achiever cage.
Do you sometimes wake up in the middle of the night sweat hot and wet wishing you could have lived in Salem? Fear not a few more like you and we will be.
Bob Owens your conclusions are very similar to my own. I have picked up my information from the internet so missed a lot of hot off the press misinformation but read about it and conclude that it is criminal in nature and content. With the UN jumping into this controversy we know that the race baiting has international backing but not the backing of justice.
To me it has all the elements of a fatal accident where each step could be avoided but wasn’t. It is also fairly obvious that the victim could just as easily have been Zimmerman and then what? Would it have been international news?
http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/04/10/no-attention-for-daylight-highway-stabbing-in-alabama/
What I read this evening is the first I have heard about this incident. I also read of similar happenings that have not been reported yet Trayvon is international news. That he was 17 is incidental and of no great consequence. That is not what made it newsworthy. Evil is involved and
George Zimmerman got caught in the trap.
There is no indication that he had any intent to harm Trayvon but that it was
Trayvon who was belligerent and was responsible for the confrontation. What if Zimmerman was black belt? Justice is not what this spirit wants nor is it likely what we will get. That is not why the UN got involved.
We wouldn’t have international news because Martin would have been arrested and arraigned in short order, like most blacks.
Running after someone while carrying a gun because you don’t like the way someone looks, in my books, shows bad intent.
If you were a 17 year old and a guy stalked you for several blocks, would you not be scared?
Get real.
How does the prosecutor, or FL for that matter, avoid the 5th Amendment’s requirement that all indictments be by a Grand Jury”for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime”.
FL’s Criminal Procedure only mentions a Capital crime. It permits “Indictment by Information” in counties with elected Prosecutors and the committee’s notes strongly recommend against using it if a prosecutor is not elected. She’s not an elected prosecutor even if this FL practice survives the 5th Amendment.
By charging him with second degree instead of first degree murder. That means the maximum sentence is life in prison, so it’s not a capital crime.
Of course, if it’s not a traditional segregated southern prison, Zimmerman is as good as dead.
El Wrongo: The 5th Amendment requires that “infamous crimes” also be billed by a grand jury. Even the committee’s explanation of FL’s Criminal Procedure Section 3.14.0 strongly recommends against an unelected prosecutor using an “information” as a route to court.
Florida knows how to keep it’s accused alive while in prison. And despite your left handed compliment, it’s California and other gang infested blue state prison system’s that explicitly use racial segregation to avoid problems.
Given the author’s propensity for jumping to conclusions, I’ll have to say prepare to apologize again.
- The 911 tapes, the part no one ever plays, shows Zimmerman stating “effing coons” as he left his car. I heard it myself. It’s muffled, but you really cannot mistake it for anything else unless you try really hard.
- The anonymous source called “John” describing Martin’s assault only spoke to Fox News about it: conveniently unverifiable. For all we know, it could have been Zimmerman talking to Hannity and calling himself “John”. How about waiting for police reports during the trial before putting too much weight on unverifiable anonymous sources to Fox News?
- Martin was running away from Zimmerman because he was scared. We know that from his girlfriend, and we know that from Zimmerman. Zimmerman was 80 pounds heavier than him and 10 years older. Who wouldn’t be scared?
- A 150 pound minor decks a 230 pound adult with one punch? Lets find out if Martin knew karate or boxing first.
- Zimmerman had no justification for suspecting Martin. Martin was doing nothing wrong, and there was no reason for Zimmerman to stalk him with a gun. Zimmerman would not say why he was suspicious; he better use his time in custody to put together a good story. He would know better than to say that he suspected Martin because he was black. He’s not stupid.
The only problem is all your facts are wrong, your ‘selective’ hearing aside.
Zimmerman was smaller and in probability weighed LESS than Trayvon, since he is listed now at 170lbs. Trayvon’s weight is known: It is listed as 195lbs in the police report. Zimmerman has been listed as He played football and was undoubtedly in the best shape of his life had he lived to old age. Zimmerman was not.
You’re not making any sense.
Trayvon’s weight in the police report is 170. At 6’1, that makes him pretty skinny.
You’re making up Zimmerman’s weight in the police report because it is not listed in the police report. http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Twin-Lakes-Shooting-Initial-Report.pdf
It also doesn’t change the main fact that Martin ran away, while Zimmerman pursued him.
If you find that hard to believe, or even suspicious, you don’t know much.
one thing we know already is that a black nazi movement, with white support, is now at large among us.
I think what you have to remember is that the vast majority of whites in the Southern red states were very conservative and openly supported segregation until the 1960′s. Many are still alive, have the same, views but cannot express them directly. I wouldn’t be surprised to find them in the police force.
Black Nazi’s. That’s a good one. Don’t know many blacks who support Aryan superiority.
The Southern states then were blue states, and the whites were Democrats.
Black Nazis don’t support Aryan supremacy, they support Black supremacy.
That’s not news to anyone who has been paying attention for the last few decades.
Mr. Owens,
Good article.
One correction: I believe Zimmerman called the police on an admin line, not 9-1-1.
Also, I suspect much of the deception and narrative manufacturing is coming from the Martin family’s lawyer. Consider the weeks that passed between the actual shooting and the the event becoming national news. Some of these “emerging facts” have been available from the get-go. The real problem is that the national level media ran with the story spoon fed to them by the lawyer. They eagerly ran with that most sensational version of what could have happened, without fact checking.
Finally, I realize its sensitive because of his age, but isn’t Martin’s character an issue. Ordinarily, it wouldn’t be. But the narrative pushed so hard to present a false image of Martin – it seems to beg the question – why? Probably because a choirboy is more sympatheitc to a jury than a mysogynistic, drug using, vandalizing, petty thief. That hurts, but these are the facts as we know them. Should we add to that discription, “brawler”? Did Trayvon also punch a bus driver?
I don’t necessarily blame the greiving family, every child is innocent to their parents, but I do smell a rat. You, I and the public have been deceived. But to what end? Why go to the media and stir up so much animosity? For money in a forthcoming civil suit?
Anyone have any other ideas?
You don’t find it suspicious when someone stalks a man for two minutes in is car, the victim starts running, and then the shooter pursues him and shoots him, and then the police just takes his word that this was self defense?
Martin ran away for gods sake. Zimmerman said so himself. Zimmerman then ignored police instructions not to pursue.
Perhaps Zimmerman is innocent, but you need a trial to determine. The only thing that stinks is the behaviour of the police. Did they dive Zimmerman special treatement because a) of his relationship with the police; b) Because his father was a judge? Doesn’t sit right.
However, the end last moments of this young man’s life played out, there was one very clear instruction from the police dispather directing Mr.Zimmerman not to follow him. Had he complied with that directive this tradegy would have had an entirely different ending.
there was no such order or directive.
Yes there was. 911 call clearly shows Zimmerman following Martin for two minutes, so Martin starts to run.
Start at 2:20
Zimmerman: F–ing coons
Police: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Police: Okay, we don’t need you to do that.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call1.ogg
Listen for yourself
Jeff Charles @ 55
Yep. That’s what she said.
That’s not an order. Not grammatically, not legally.
No order.
Oh, by the way, what’s the very next thing Zimmerman says?
“OK.”
And he stops.
According to that right-wing, Neo-Nazi, racist news outlet known as CNN, what he said was, “effing COLD“.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJLA9vr97qw
“Yes there was. 911 call clearly shows Zimmerman following Martin for two minutes, so Martin starts to run.”
If Martin started to run AWAY, how did a paunchy 30-something-year old catch a “wispy” 17-year-old football player? I believe Martin started the confrontation when he could have easily escaped.
Commenters above: do you work for racists Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, and their ilk? That’s what racism sounds like. Wide-spread White against Black racism is a myth in modern America. I have not heard White against Black racism here in the South for 30 years at least, but I’ve heard plenty of Black against White racism. Why doesn’t that bother you, or the DOJ, or the MSM?
Let me amend that–I haven’t heard White against Black racism until our Great Divider took office. He is deliberately throwing gasoline on the flames and fanning them as part of his endless campaigning. I fear we are reacting as he wants when we need to keep our eye on the ball–defeat our racist President.
IF Z said “effing coons,” I guess he’s guilty of felonious cursing and should be jailed for life or executed. I read that experts who filtered out background noise say he was saying “punk.” If you know what you’re talking about, you’ve heard the 911 tape where he identifies Trayvon as black only after the 911 worker asked what race Trayvon was.
The fact that the parents–I’m sure on the advice of the Black racists who swooped down on Florida–circulated old pictures of Trayvon is very telling. One part of the manipulation.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/05/update-6-trayvon-martin-the-latest-installments/
Get the Real Truth about Martin and Zimmerman at the above link. The MSM Lamestream Left Leaning Medio no longer tells the truth!
Interesting information. I agree about one thing: this is a watershed moment for the black community in America. Since Obama was elected, more and more mainstream black press, celebrities and organizations have been saying increasingly bizarre things about white America that, quite frankly, reveals a depth of ignorance and even stupidity and racism that is hard to fathom. In this bizarre world, the black community weeps for the first black President and then says it doesn’t mean anything because it goes against the grain of white racism and furthermore any white people who disagree with the President, all of the GOP of course, are racists. The black community has demonstrated that they hypocritically demand people who are not black think about black people 24/7 while the black community itself is ignoring much worse and statistically frequent incidents of brutality against this nation as a whole by that black community.
But the Martin episode has really brought out what, in another situation, might be thought of as black fringe lunatics. Well, they are lunatics but they are not fringe; they are the NBA Player’s Association, the Atty. General of the United States, the President of the United States, Magic Johnson, the Miami Heat, the entirety of the mainstream black press, celebrities – in short, virtually every black person in America who can get to a keyboard, phone, TV camera, YouTube, or street.
In the half century since the Civil Rights movement, no incident has exposed the senseless advocacy by race of the black community like the Martin incident. The black community has exposed itself and gone to the wall for an incident they characterize as a trend that is the tip of some monstrous iceberg of white racism and open season on blacks but which is a position a long ways from being any kind of reality – too far for the black community to ever bridge back across again – they had no credibility on issues of race in the first place in my opinion and now it’s much, much worse. The rhetorical question has been put and answered: do black Americans ever think of anything but black Americans?
‘that race didn’t play a roll”
Uh,that’s “play a role”.
Zimmerman should have gotten out of his car, Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of his car. Zimmerman stalked Martin through the neighborhood, Zimmerman was trying to be a responsible citizen. Martin took a swing at Zimmerman and then jumped on him and went for his gun or he didn’t! NONE of this matters because race is on the table! The SIMPLE fact that Martin was black and Zimmerman isn’t is the ONLY determining factor in the “case” and both blacks and non blacks should be disgusted. Someone above called this “OJ in reverse” and they are 100% correct. We have programmed ourselves, due to some false “societal equalization” or racial reparation, to believe that black on non-black crime must somehow be a mistake or explainable while non-black on black crime is pure racism and hatred!
This belief or philosophy is perpetuated by the same people who call anyone who ridicules the president a racist! The same people who allow black men and women in popular culture (movies or tv) to refer to caucasian men and women as “THAT white girl” or “THAT white boy”, in a derogatory manner. When did this become ok? Why is this ok? It is because of some false sense of payback for racial inequality! The best way to NOT eliminate racism in this country is to perpetuate it for convenience or agenda! We are ALL to blame because we allow this to continue! The MSM, ALL of them, should be ashamed of themselves for keeping this cancer alive and well!!
hmmmm won’t get fooled again huh? some people want to be fooled.. they want the story and the ending the way they want it.. wonder what side he was on in the duke fiasco.. the tawana brawley fiasco (which sharpton should have done time for like charles manson has) and so much other trumped up crap that comes out of the dem controlled press and the blacks race baiting businesses.. in other words never believe these groups.. make them prove their allegations first.. they never seem to have to prove their lies.. never..and many people’s lives have been destroyed by these liars and race baiters.. make them prove what they scream and rage about..
Bob you made an unforgivable error in your first post on the Trayvon Zimmerman event. No information and yet you spewed forth as if you had a clue. Maybe NBC will hire you.
This is the best description/narrative of that tragic event which I have seen thus far. Except was Martin on a direct route from the store to the house where he was staying? What were the previous several larcenies mentioned in other stories? Were any of those culprits caught, and what were their races? Was Zimmerman’s home one of those robbed? Had either Martin or Zimmerman any kind of record of encounters with the police? There were mentions of Martin having issues at school and perhaps a suspension. I hope that we will receive the whole story during the trial, and not just little snippets of about a minute on the “Evening News.”
The thing I see is… I wonder how Trayvon felt when he realized he was being stalked by an armed man? He was unarmed. The only “weapon” he’d have is to attack physically… he was apparently followed into a dark area between two buildings, which seems like a good place to be attacked… what was Trayvon’s state of mind, and how would we have reacted differently to someone persistantly following us? (in my mind Zimmerman is the aggressor since he was armed and following Trayvon long enough for Trayvon to realize he was being followed)…
When we talk about the “stand your ground” law… it encourages people to confront rather than run… which is what Trayvon did. I’d do some serious re-thinking and re-educating in Florida.
So when we talk about “fear” and “being in fear of your life”… Zimmerman had likely created that for Trayvon, just by following him WITH A GUN. Trayvon “stood his ground” just like Zimmerimmerman
This is where Root 83 is making his point.
Zimmerman escalated the situation because he was armed and he followed Trayvon. Trayvon had no weapon, and he knew he was being followed… Zimmerman essentially backed Trayvon into a corner.
This is where I see Zimmerman’s responsibiity. He should have had better training (and common sense) than to put himself into a situation where he’d have to use his gun… without knowing if the other person was armed. Had Zimmerman followed someone with a gun, he’d likely be dead.
This is why people who carry concealed weapons need to be MORE informed, and SMARTER than the average bear.
Cops are trained to anticipate these situations, and how to know “when” to shoot. They don’t follow people into dark areas between buildings without backup and without identifing themselves.
Unfortunately, those who carry guns sometimes think this makes them invulnerable and even encourages them to take risks, because it feeds the “I’m the big man on the campus” mentality. If Zimmerman hadn’t had a gun… would he have followed Trayvon? If not, then that mentality played a part in his actions. He had a gun, so he figured he’d come out on top if the “worst” happened… and that mentality made… the worst to happen. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy.
So my sympathies are limited for Zimmerman.
The answer to someone following you is not to turn and attack them. You could end up dead – Trayvon being a case in point. If that’s what happened, then Trayvon did the wrong thing. He could have continued to his apartment, running if necessary. He could have gone to a well-lighted area where, presumably, the attacker would be less likely to strike. He could have gone into an apartment building and knocked on doors to ask for help. He could have yelled for help. Or, since he had a phone, he could have CALLED THE POLICE. If he did turn and confront Zimmerman, it means he wasn’t afraid. If he attacked Zimmerman for following him, he was being a thug. Wrong every which way.
Zimmerman shouldn’t have followed. Trayvon should have kept walking.
I agree that they both acted wrongly… but I blame Trayvon less, and see Zimmerman (the man with the gun) as the aggressor.
And I think you missed my point about the Florida “stand your ground” law… it encourages confrontation rather than the choice to run away. To run appears to be treated as “cowardly” while “standing your ground” is apparently seen as courageous. It’s a dangerous mentality to have and to endorse by law. Had this law (and the accompanying frame of mind) be absent, BOTH parties might have seen retreat as a viable option.
And Trayvon’s conversation with his girlfriend ended at the time of the confrontation, so he didn’t have time to call police.
I have to wonder what happened in those few seconds between the time his call ended with his girlfriend and when he was shot. But I can’t see it any other way than Zimmerman starting this whole thing by not standing down and letting the cops handle it.
This is the most bizarre thing about the author’s article. In the 911 tapes Zimmerman specifically states that Martin ran away, yet he pursued Martin anyway. The author totally ignores that.
The bottom line in all of this is that regardless of what you think happened, Zimmerman should have been arrested and stood trial, even if he was totally innocent and Trayvon was really the giant, gold toothed, gang-banging thug the media has made him out to be.
If one person shoots another person and there are conflicting eye-witness accounts, you do not let the killer walk free without a trial. Why? Because the killer could go home, get another gun, and kill the witnesses.
The way that the police and the meddling DA handled the case sets a dangerous precedent. Such blatant mismanagement of a potential crime endangers the lives of citizens.
I’m sorry that does not make any sense. Zimmerman would not be waving or showing his gun in any scenario, even creative ones. Martin may have been perturbed, but he had no way of knowing there was a gun involved until he was beating on Zimmerman’s face? He would not have attacked a man with a gun since it’s common sense not to.
Where did you get the crazy idea that Trayvon knew Zimmerman was armed?
Hello? He was carrying a CONCEALED weapon!
If he had known Zimmerman was armed, he would likely have simply run away. There are a lot of stupid people in the world, but there aren’t many who would attack an armed man with their fist when they have the option of simply leaving the area.
BTW, there’s becoming a serious misunderstanding of “stand your ground.” If you can avoid someone you do. When trapped, or your movement is arrested (blocked) and you feel threatened – someone does not ID themselves or invades your personal space – then protect yourself. But one doesn’t double back and attack someone, or stand on any ground and claim it’s theirs. Such pride or to appear not cowardly will always turn out bad. I hate the fact a mother lost her child, and that the focus is on blame more than the mother and community resolution. Many misunderstandings all around. I pray for those closely involved as well as the those stirring up trouble.
Actually I think it will turn out that it was the older Zimmerman couple who are the guilty ones. Why else would they leave their home and go into hiding? Besides, Spike Lee is always right about everything.
America’s race hucksters now control the government, through Obama and Holder. Sharpton should have been indicted for his part in the pogroms in New York in the early 90s and his incitement to murder Jewish store owners in that city – incitement that yielded deadly results by the way. David Dinkins let the Crown Heights riots rage for days. Holder has racialized the Dept of Justice. Obama used the Panthers in the election, and receives their votes in part on racial solidarity grounds.
Whatever Zimmerman did or did not do does not change any of this.
I have read all the comments about gun purchase and ownership by non-blacks and agree that it makes sense, sad as that is in a way. As a former urban Californian, I can attest to the constant intimidation and fear that goes on in places like Oakland, Berkeley and San Francisco – originating mostly from blacks.
It does look like the US can tip into a race war without too many more incidents. Israel seems oddly safe these days. Of course it isn’t, but it sure does feel that way by comparison.
Still, the fact remains that the author of this piece (and most of PJ media more than likely) believed, right off the bat, the narrative of the evil white racist (is there any other kind?) killing the sweet, young black man (is there any other kind?). That is the mindset here: those whites (Those whites!) are evil racists, under every rock and behind every tree. DWLs & IHAD people have brought us to this point of ruin in this country.
I don’t know what happened between Trayvon and Zimmerman.What I do know is Zimmerman was constantly cruisin around Sanford every night carrying a gun and intentionally looking for criminal activity.He had been doing this for months before the Trayvon shooting. Who gave Zimmerman the authority to play cop? He was a one man vigilante show.He was a frustrated wanna-be cop who failed to make it into the police acedemy.He is a real troublemaker.
His illegal vigilante behavior has caused more problems for Americans than Trayvon ever did.Now,law abiding citizens of all races have to suffer because of Zimmerman’s illegal behavior.
Stand Your Ground laws are meant to protect law abiding citizens,not self-appointed vigilantes who have a burning desire to play cop.It’s one thing to carry a gun for self protection,it’s another thing to go out every night carrying a gun and intentionally looking for criminal activity– something Zimmerman loved to do.He is not a community minded fellow– he is all about himself and his wanna-be cop head trip.
Throw the book at him and throw him in prison for all the trouble he has caused for all law abiding Americans.
Hugh Mongus Yes that is equally as true as all whites are uneducated, lowlife trailer trash.
Get the point of not over generalizing?
I hate that these gun issues happen, different cases al over the news.
What I dislike more is that I believe Zimmerman has mental health issues. OCD, paranoia, feeling of grandeur with his gun. The crazy thing is that if he were released he remain a threat to society at large.
I am sick that an innocent boy walking home in the rain was followed. I believe he was distracted while being on the phone throughout this encounter and he was ducking out of the rain as he walked back to where he was staying. Horrible encounter that left a young man 17 yo for only 3 weeks, with so much promise, dead. He did some teenager stuff if you believe that but I believe he was athletic, gorgeous,smart ( his grades) and well rounded in life. He gave back to the community, had a close family. It is just so damned sad. Because of Trayvon laws may change and people may be safer.
The problem is any black jurors won’t care about evidence, as has been proved over and over again in racially-charged cases. They are only capable of perceiving things in ways that benefit blacks. By bringing these charges, the Obama administration risks riots. Both the Obama administratoin and the media are so irresponsible it’s sickening. If the charges had not been brought, the whole thing would have fizzled out eventually. But by creating a trial, there will be focus, and if the verdict doesn’t please blacks, there will be violence. Obama is trying to score points with his fellow blacks, and the media just wants something that will give them power and influence.
“The problem is any black jurors won’t care about evidence…”
You have just stated that all black people are a collective of identical minds that are all equally irrational and biased. There is a word for this.
There is one thing oddly suspicious about Zimmerman’s account – that he was attacked by Martin. Anyone familiar with the modus operandi of blacks will tell you they are basically cowards who will only attack someone vastly weaker, or who is greatly outnumbered.
I love how you idiots that purport to be logical human beings with all your myopic views on Black people think you know anything about anything. With statements like:
“…anyone that is familiar with the modus operandi of blacks…” and “The problems is black jurors won’t care about evidence…”
It just elucidates your fear and hate of anybody that doesn’t want to bow down at the altar all that is caucasian. Your whole existence is sickening and I hope you die the horrible painful deaths befitting of the cowards you are. Any position you have in this world is because you were lucky enough to be born at a time and in a place were circumstance met you 99% of the way.
Your fear of a world that does not value your existence over any other permeates all the fibers of your being and it’s blantant in everything you type. You gather together in your little corners of the internet and circle jerk each other because you you are too scared to say this ridiculous bs in the public space. If ONLY you were as smart as you thought you were, you might have something here.
Your opinions are not about justice or anything of the sort. If Zimmerman was black and Martin was white (or a close to white looking hispanic for you anal types), you’d be calling for his head and ignoring any evidence that flew in the face of your bias. You only suspect Zimmerman’s story is true because you WANT it to be.
A man that gets into fights with armed police officers, screams for help like a little girl perfectly clearly with a broken nose(which would have been bleeding profusely in any other human being) while he has a gun in his hand after having his head “beat” into the concrete? That add up to you? How about you wait for the ballistics report to be public before you jump on the side of Zimmerman because you think he’s being persecuted for shooting an unarmed black kid. And then go kill yourselves.
Zimmerman was specifically instructed by the police dispatcher to NOT FOLLOW Traayvon and instead to meet them at the club house. They had both agreed the police would meet him at the club house-no address was needed from Zimmerman to give to the police. Zimmerman is not a police man or a security guard, and against instructions from the POLICE, he decided to stalk Traayvon not the other way round.
Traayvon was being stalked and hunted of the mere fact he was walking in the neighborhood. Zimmerman is a murderer.
There’s no help for these people Mary. They are plagued by a force that is bigger than them. The force that says what they do is right no matter what the situation.
They say they believe in justice but they do not. They say they are going off the facts but they are not.
These same series’ of facts said that OJ and Casey Anthony was innocent. The difference with this case and those cases are the color of the victims skin. Had the victim been a different color they would be outraged and calling for mob justice just like with OJ and just like with Casey Anthony.
They are confused by you just as you are confused by them.
Now if they get a chance to read this they will rant and rave saying that race has nothing to do with how they are responding. Again this is a plague within them. They can’t help it.
Mary,
How do you know that Zimmerman didn’t follow the “instructions” from the police dispatcher?
After the dispatcher says, “we don’t need you to do that” Zimmerman says “ok.” It seems like his panting (if that’s what it is) stops a few seconds later. Then there is discussion about meeting the police near the clubhouse (which is the opposite direction that Martin was apparently running).
We know that he didn’t follow their instructions because he continued to follow Martin for an additional half a block on the sidewalk behind the houses, then got into an altercation with him, then shot Martin to death.
The fact that he said “OK” on the telephone does not change the fact that his location changed. Zimmerman actually moved farther away from his vehicle in pursuit of Martin, not back to his vehicle.
There was also no way for Martin to ambush Zimmerman as there were no structures for him to conceal himself near the crime scene. As the author pointed out, Martin was over six feet tall.
Since we are all supposed to be equal under the law irrespective of skin-tone, Zimmerman, standing over a dead body with a smoking gun, should have been taken into custody. A court of law should decide if he warrants bail, not the politically owned media nor the equally biased chattering classes posting here.
Strange country, the USA.
Exactly.
Regardless of what the author believes happened, Zimmerman should have been arrested, should have been given drug and alcohol test, and should have been given a trial.
Instead, the police and the DA let the man go. This is an extremely dangerous precedent and anyone who does not recognize that is a fool.
wow… you people are amazing… lol
God bless you and your sense of justice…
We all know God will cause we all know God knows you’re all right… lol
I know this may be hard… but if you read this… close your eyes and imagine a black man shooting a white kid…
just try it its called empathy…
now… be true to yourself… would your interpretations of these “facts” be the same?
The whole thing is sad. I feel bad for Zimmerman…I doubt he went out with the intention of killing an unarmed kid. I feel bad for Treyvon and his parents. Nothing can be worse than losing a child. It seems like, most of these posts are doing exactly what they claim the “MSM” did. Convicting a dead kid of being a thug and deserving to die, isn’t any better than jumping to conclusions about Zimmerman without proper evidence. Lots of kids are jerks when they are teenagers and they somehow turn out okay when they grow up. Lots of kids get suspended from school for doing stupid stuff. Lots of kids have a rotten and disrespectful attitude at his age. I don’t think we have evidence that Treyvon was some kind of hardened criminal, but just a kid who is getting into more trouble than he should have been, acting out, etc. He was sent to stay with his dad while he was suspended probably to keep him out of trouble, to let dad talk some sense into him, or whatever. All of that sounds reasonable…to me…just me. I also wonder what it was he was doing that looked so “suspicious”…this will be something else interesting to find out. Just walking around in a neighborhood in which you do not live, is no more illegal than apparently trailing someone who is doing this is. And I don’t know about you, but if I was just walking around somewhere I have every right to be, which is almost anywhere, and some dude starts following me, talking on his phone about me, with a GUN…yes, me…I would probably run and scream, knowing that all I had to defend myself with was some skittles, but a guy like Treyvon probably figures he is in danger and needs to protect HIMself, so he goes after this dude who won’t quit following him. Maybe he didn’t want to go to his dad’s house because he didn’t want this guy to know where he was staying…who knows…only Treyvon knows, and he can’t tell us. I doubt that Zimmerman is the murderer he has been made out to be, but we can’t forget that he killed an unarmed kid…and that’s just sad…whatever the reason. Getting popped in the mouth by a punk teenager might suck, but it’s probably not life threatening. I can’t imagine that the law was written so that if you got down in a fight you have the right to kill whoever is beating you…I guess we should all wait until we hear some evidence…ya think? You can’t blame the boys parents for being outraged though…that was their child…no matter what your child does you see the potential, the good, your baby, etc…no one could expect them to just say “oh well, I guess he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time…” like someone above stated, just because Zimmerman is not a big villain, doesn’t mean Treyvon has to be…it was just a bad bad set of circumstances comepletely out of control…and when a gun is involved there are no second chances.
Thank you Mr. Owens, for having the wisdom and the courage to correct your stance in this issue, and especially for sharing and succinctly summing up the events of that night and the resulting media firestorm. If I had any respect for the mainstream media before, it has been thoroughly extinguished.
This article greatly distorts the events and facts that are known.
(1) It was not a matter of two men making miscalculations. Trayvon Martin is legally defined as a minor; a child. Do not dispute that.
(2) The injuries shown on Zimmerman’s head were not remotely life threatening. Ask a paramedic or a doctor.
(3) Zimmerman did not pass a polygraph test at the police station. Voice stress tests ARE NOT the same as a polygraph, are known to be no more accurate than flipping a coin, and are not even admissible in court.
(4) There were as many witnesses who stated that Zimmerman was on top of Martin as there were witnesses that said the opposite. In fact two women who lived in the house closest to the crime scene contradicted “John”.
(5) It has been proven that Martin was screaming for help on the 911 tapes, not Zimmerman.
(6) It has been proven that Zimmerman ran after Martin when Martin tried to escape him. This is in the 911 tapes. Listen to them again.
(7) Martin was not committing a crime.