Why Cops Shouldn’t Enforce Immigration Laws
The headline of a recent PJM column asked: “Why can’t cops enforce immigration law?”
The author, writing under the pseudonym “Jack Dunphy,” serves as an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD prohibits officers from initiating contact with individuals with the sole intent of determining whether they are in the country illegally. The policy is called Special Order 40. Dunphy wants the policy changed.
In Los Angeles, Dunphy writes, “we will soon learn the results of a petition drive aimed at placing Jamiel’s Law on ballots for the city’s May 2009 municipal election. The proposed law would give Los Angeles Police Department officers a more active role in identifying and apprehending illegal alien street gang members.”
“Jamiel” is 17-year-old Los Angeles resident Jamiel Shaw II, who was shot and killed in March, allegedly by an illegal immigrant from Mexico and reputed gang member.
Initiative proponents failed to gather enough signatures, so the measure won’t be on the May 2009 ballot.
In any case, the question was asked — “Why can’t cops enforce immigration law?” — and I’m delighted to answer it. What I have to say won’t go over well with those who want simple solutions to difficult problems. And, as a Mexican-American, some will see an ethnic bias. One reader accused me of “supporting the Mexican invasion because you’re Mexican.” Another insisted that I wanted a porous border because “you want to bring in your relatives.”
“Scores of U.S.-born Hispanics — including, ironically, some with Arizona roots going back several generations — were harassed, detained, and asked to produce birth certificates or citizenship papers. This is not the sort of thing that should happen in a country that puts a premium on freedom.”
I agree, it should not happen. IMHO it is the result of decades of sloppy and/or non-existent federal law enforcement, and it’s long past time to correct that. While it is unfortunate that citizens were netted in the roundup, I infer from the text that no citizen was arrested or held very long for failure to prove birth at once.
How, I wonder, would the author handle the problem of rounding up, processing and housing 400 aliens who are not in the country legally? And how would things be better if the requests for documents proving place of birth be handled by federal officers, rather than local police?
Why didn’t the feds brief the local cops on how to behave and get the checks done? Isn’t this really a matter of how professionally the job is done, not which law enforcement agency should be doing what job? Why should municipal or county cops be reluctant to improve their skills?
Could it be that local police should always check the nationality and immigration status of everyone they arrest? Or perhaps they could be trained to handle immigration problems as a part of their enforcement duties, so they could do part of what federal officers do.
Ultimately, I wonder why it is that when a person who presence in the USA is against the law should ever find that his first contact with any governmental agency results in anything other than deportation. It seems to me that the way things are now, the governments themselves — municipal, county, state — are scofflaws. “It’s not my job.” How is that good?
I’m a US citizen and resident who lives outside the USA. Here I am on a very tight leash: I must report to the police every 90 days; I must carry my passport at ALL times; I must meet strict financial requirements that are reviewed every year. Most important of all, my passport contains very clear proof of my immigration status, so all any cop has to do is stop me, demand my passport, and he can determine absolutely whether to arrest me. (I suspect most US citizens do not know that no firm proof of status is to be found in a foreign passport held by someone in the USA, so even the feds have to go through a time-consuming check to determine whether they have detained someone who has overstayed a visa.) I agree to all that because I like it here. Is that a system the USA could copy, partially or wholly? I think it is a question worth debating….
One problem with your argument. The law doesn’t just prohibit stopping people to enforce immigration laws, it also prohibits the enforcement of those laws on people already arrested for other crimes. The first female LAPD officer killed in the line of duty, Tina Kerbrat, was killed by a guy who was lying in the street drunk. He’d been in the drunk tank the previous week, and the LAPD knew the guy was here illegally, but all they could do was hold him for the 72 hours for public drunkenness, and then release him back into the public, where he shot the rookie patrol officer, mother of a child less than a year old. Her partner killed the guy, but that’s not the point. We have laws in this country, and everyone’s supposed to follow them, or face the consequences. As for the racial profiling arguments, when the country is overrun with illegal immigrants from Sweden, I won’t have any problem with the police suspecting blondes are illegals. It absolutely makes my blood boil that airport security searches Michael Caine as if he were a possible terrorist, while letting some guy in a turban get on a plane, because we don’t want to offend anyone.
The problem is not lack of documentation or immigrant status. The problem is illegal immigrants are excused from the obligations and responsibilities of the society in which they live by virtue of their original law breaking. Break the law and you get to break more with no responsibility for your actions. Break the law and you get free education, free health care and you don’t have to pay taxes to support any of it. Break the law and get into a car accident and you get to walk away with no expense; no culpability. Commit more serious, violent crimes, just leave the country; no one is going to repatriate you. Illegal immigration is not just about lack of documentation. It’s a license to live without any social contract. It’s a license for injustice and chaos.
According to his own writings, Jack Dunphy has more than twenty years with the LAPD; I found that out by spending a few minutes with Google. Based on my own experience in Law Enforcement (twenty-five years with the NYPD – and my father did thirty-five) questioning a police officer’s seniority – “He’s just a rookie” – is usually a sign that the person doing the questioning has already lost the argument. Your arguments on immigration enforcement may have merit, but questioning Jack Dunphy’s experience doesn’t advance them.
Most routine criminal offenses committed by illegal immigrants are at the local level and they usually get off free and clear because of their illegal status. If local police don’t enforce immigration laws, again, it’s a license to just keep committing more illegal acts. If their is no obligation to the community in which you live – paying real taxes (sales tax does not count) and being made accountable for your actions – where is the incentive to be a responsible citizen. Break immigration law, you just get to break more. The feds can’t be everywhere and can’t take on what is almost always local offenses. It’s the ‘broken windows’ theory. Get rid of the graffiti, punish the small crimes and you get rid of the larger more serious crimes. That said, I fully realize that most illegal immigrants are hard working law abiding citizens but I deeply resent that they get free education and health care while paying no taxes to support those services while the rest of us watch our property and income taxes rise to accommodate those who continue to pay nothing.
Sounds like you are conspiring to treason to wreck this country.
I pretty much agree with “MP”.
Why bother with judge and jury if the cops get to decide what laws they are going to bother to hold up (or not) depending on their personal understanding of the concept of justice?
Cops should follow the rules and uphold the law of the land or quit their job(or be sacked if they don’t). If they want to legislate, they need to change career to being politicians.
Here in Nashville, they have taken advantage of a US government program for training and funding of local law enforcement to include illegal immigration issues. It has worked well, with significant, measurable reductions in certain crime areas. The local legal Hispanic community grumbles a lot, but has yet to find any significant problems with the program.
Tregonsee
Proud son of a naturalized parent!
this is real simple. there is NO excuse for any officer of the law, especially police, at any level, enforcing the law of this country. period. you and your dad are biased and wrong.
Just ask yourselves if the author’s argument would be given serious consideration in any other country on earth.
Mr. Navarette:
I have no problem with local police enforcing immigration laws, but I think that dealing ONLY with the illegals is only fighting half the battle.
To be effective,(and fair, btw), the police should ALSO target those who employ the illegals…you know…follow the money.
A minor quibble, but since when have Mexicans been a “race”? Or is that just a bit of hyperbole on your part to scare the Anglos, since “nationalistic ethno-centrism” doesn’t carry the same impact as crying “racism” does?
Old Ruben here, would take ANY pro-Mexican, anti-American position; his column in the Dallas Morning News proves that. The white “journalists” he mentions are simply anti-Americans who take every position that would do damage to America.
The cops don’t have time to go out and round up illegal aliens. But, when an illegal alien is stopped for a violation he should not be released without penalty just because he is illegal. The cop checks everyone for outstanding warrants, check immigration status as well.
Those illegals with a police record must be turned over to federal authorities for deportation and cops in “sanctuary” jurisdictions who don’t do this should be sued by the subsequent victims of the illegal.
In many states, normal Americans have to defend themselves by buying “uninsured motorist” coverage, insurance so that when an illegal alien driving without license or mandatory auto insurance causes damage or injury, they are covered. Any illegal without insurance or a real license involved in an accident should be arrested on the spot and turned over to federal authorities ub the spot for deportation. And, yes, this should apply to Ruben’s friends, relatives and the white liberals he has been hustling for years.
I agree with DavidN. I don’t want my local cops rounding up hispanics to check thier status. However, whenever any law enforcement officer does positively identify a person as an illegal immigrant, the LAW should be enforced – hold him or her until turned over to federal authorities.
Tell this to Prince William County, Virginia. They’ve been very successful at convincing illegal immigrants to leave, without much trouble for civil liberties. When the ACLU threatened to sue them for racial profiling, they simply instituted a policy where anyone they arrest gets their immigration status checked. It’s been working well for PWC.
As a “Asphalt Jungle Republican”, I have seen the overwhelming benefits of immigration in my hometown of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Immigrants (of ALL nationalities) revitalize downtrodden commercial corridors, rehab affordable housing, send wonderful children to the Milwaukee Public Schools and private schools, open small family-run businesses, etc. I applaud ALL immigration to Milwaukee, legal or not. We need more, not less.
As Republicans, we are destroying our party’s future if we continue to beat the anti-immigration drum.
Well, local cops also operate under reasonable suspicion, a lesser standard than probable cause for search and seizure, so Rubens’ objection to local cops enforcing immigration law on this point is hardly relevant. That lesser standard shouldn’t be a training issue for enforcing immigration law by the local police. Besides, most civilian contacts with police are in the line of duty, in public with no expectation of privacy, or are the results of hot pursuit, which doesn’t require an arrest or search warrant. If illegal immigrants feel insecure in reporting crime to the authorities, perhaps they’ll return to their mother country where they’ll feel more secure. I venture to guess if it was as easy to arrest a fortune five hundred CEO for hiring illegal aliens as it is to bust Jose for domestic violence, beating the wife, the illegal alien issue would be history. CEO’s don’t like to go to jail to be the punk in the bunk, and I’m sure we can free up a hundred beds in the liberal prison industrial complex. And if Jose can go to jail for beating the wife he can certainly go to jail for being in the country illegally.
Oh, and as for racial profiling of illegal aliens, I suspect Mr. Ruben has no problem with the ethnic and gender profiling that occurs with affirmative action programs, admission policies, and preferential hirings and promotions, not to mention the cut rate tuition fees California gives to illegal aliens while charging full boat to out of state citizens. I would further remind Mr. Ruben that the local police are usually responding to calls by citizens who have all ready “racially profiled” the suspect, which is not illegal. However, if Mr. Ruben has a problem with agents of the state ethnically profiling Muslims while flying I would hope he would hold similar views regarding admissions officers ethnically profiling students for higher education.
Ruben, I usually find to be very fair minded, but occasionlly he goes off the wagon and writes some ridiculous diatribe, and this is one of those times. Why have laws if they are not enforced? As an artist I occasionally was stopped by the cops and had my person and vehicle searched because I looked like a druggie, I never really minded the attention because I knew I had nothing to fear and despised the drug culture. The police were actually doing the job my taxes were paying them to do, to protect me and my loved ones from the criminals. When I shaved and cut my hair I was never stopped again, many times we draw unto ourselves our troubles, a little common sense tells a person how to avoid trouble. If I dress appropriately and drive legally even though I am a Latin man I never worry about the stuff Ruben wails about.
“If you haven’t put in 20 years, shut the hell up before you say something stupid!””Who, but an idiot would say such a thing? Yeah, when I went though engineering, and later enlisted SF and on to a A-Team they encouraged you to voice up. I guess they could handle a dumb question, or someone new who brought new perspectives. I don’t know of one, elite, world class organization in any field that isn’t trying more to inculcate communication and individual initiative. Toyota, MIT, The Patriots, Wal-Mart, Fed-Ex, Boeing, the Army, every major lab and university.
Stephen Thiel,
The issue here is illegal immigration, not immigration. These are two very different subjects and I don’t see any major percentages of Republicans who are against immigration so long as it’s legal. Stay on topic.
How much of the bail-out Arne is asking from ALL of us, is caused by the actions of illegals? Most says I.
Thank you for your response Mr. Dunphy.
Local law-enforcement has been at the federal tit for years and it is about time that we (John Q Taxpayers) got a little more out of it that a new SWAT van!! Local law enforcement can and should detain any illegal alien and hold them in prison camps if needed for federal deportation. As a former police officer and an American of Latino descent I contend that if locals do not enforce the law then who will??? None of my family members have been harassed by law enforcement, now maybe it is because after 3 generations and A WILLINGNESS TO ASSIMILATE after LEGAL immigration we aer AMERICANS and know we generally have nothing to fear.
Stephan Thiel..YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO AMERICAN CULTURE. Keep your comments in your chronically RED state.
16. Stephen Thiel wrote:
As Republicans, we are destroying our party’s future if we continue to beat the anti-immigration drum.
Peter replies: It’s not an anti-immigration drum. It’s an anti-ILLEGAL immigration drum. There is an important difference. LEGAL immigrants wait years, file proper paperwork and work hard to become legal US citizens. Why should people too lazy or impatient to follow the rules all our forefathers followed to get into this country, many solely for the purpose of continuing illegal activity, benefit from the non-enforement of existing laws?
As Mike T. in comment 15 stated, as long as the laws are applied equally (check resident status of ALL who are arrested), it can’t be considered discrimination.
Stephen Thiel — what’s your position on the rule of law? That’s really the issue, but it’s been obscured by emotional arguments like yours.
No one argues against immigration — this is a nation of immigrants. The problem is illegal immigration. There is a difference and pretending there isn’t is not a valid argument.
The most down-to-earth, hardworking people in the world are still wrong if they are willfully breaking the law and capitalizing on benefits that they have not earned and to which they do not contribute. Weirdly, their illegal status insulates them from the consequences of their illegal status. That’s wrong by any objective standard.
I have some advice for the open border SOB who wrote this garbage, If you don’t respect the law, shut your ignorant mouth, and get to hell out of this country! Flap Jaw.
They’d better not;the plutocracy needs cheap labor to exploit,the democratic party needs future (welfare dependent) voters, schools need more fodder for their indoctrination mills, and the upper middle class needs their grass cut,and their brats nannied, for pennies on the dollar. Oh I almost forgot, Navarrete needs his jod here, as token hispanic,and spokesman for the globalist plutocracy.
Ruben Navarrette Jr. wrote:
“Local police officers have one standard for searches and seizures: probable cause. Federal immigration agents have a lesser standard: reasonable suspicion.”
Is it possible that you did not grow up in Los Angeles?
I did and I can assure you that the law of the street is not ‘probable cause’ but in fact a unique L.A. form of ‘profile suspicion’. If one appears to be any of a number of ‘suspicious types’ that individual is stopped and questioned. The intensity of the stop and questioning is pretty much up to the officers involved.
I believe the issue with Special Order 40 is not a desire for the local police to enforce immigration laws, although I believe that local police should enforce the laws of their community, including their nation, but that local police should ‘investigate’ the legal status of all those under arrest, no matter what the violation that has brought that person into custody. Arresting officers are willing and able to check for existing warrants, parole status, if a detainee is under the influence of a controlled substance, and on and on. Legal immigration status is no more than a computer click away. What’s the problem?
Of course the problem is the political desire to retain as many friendly votes, and voters, as possible to ensure re-election, or perhaps, in your case, election?, The need for cheap and un-empowered labor is another fine reason to retain a large body of illegal aliens in the local area.
If I never see your name as a candidate in any valley or state elections, please accept my apology for questioning your motives.
cheeflo:
Stephen Thiel — what’s your position on the rule of law? That’s really the issue, but it’s been obscured by emotional arguments like yours.
Probably the same as anyone else when they perceive present “Rule of Law” is stupid and seek to engage in actions from political up through revolutionary action to change it.
I happen to disagree with Thiel, but blind worship of “rule of law” set by lawyers or lawyers dressed in robes is not the answer either. From the Revolution through the Grange through the civil rights struggle through the tax revolt to courts imposing gay marriage – right down to people fighting petty bureaucrats waving “cast in concrete” regulations at them – Americans have demanded something better and higher than just sheeplike devotion to lawyer’s “rule of law diktats”.
And where we really go wrong in this country is when we have people in position of power surrounded by trusty “rule of law” lawyer-courtiers who determine their course of action on Wall Street is unethical or behavior towards black school kids is simply morally berift, what they do will destroy what they represent in the long term, will screw the average American…but is safe to do and take the short-term personal gain – because it doesn’t violate “rule of law”.
I have noticed that on the Left, in particular, screaming “Rule of Law!!” on matters like burning any Marine who is not 100% perfect in a house to house firefight is now intended as their “Debate-Ender”, much as screams of “Racism! Intolerant Homophobist!!” are intended.
I’m a little confused. Police shouldn’t enforce the laws because it would lead to distrust between “immigrant communities” and the police.
Now let’s think about that for a minute. A *legal* immigrant (like, say, my grandparents) has nothing to fear from police. At least as far as their immigration status goes. So that leaves illegal immigrants, i.e. criminals.
What you’re really saying is that enforcement of our immigration laws would lead to distrust between the police and criminals.
This does not seem like such a problem to me.
Ruben, “as a Mexican-American” you should be aware of Mexico’s immigration policy, that is they don’t take to kindly to “illegals” in their country on their southern border, would you call that “bias” also?
This article completely misses the mark, resorting to logical fallacies to support the author’s “reasoning.” Mr. Navarrette, you are a simple “journalist” (a poor one at that) and, obviously, have very little authority on the subject. Though your father was a police officer, his pessimism (perhaps apathy) toward upholding law, regardless of what that law might be, is pathetic.
Well, nearly 95% of illegals are Mexican, so profiling is appropriate.
When 29% are on welfare and 2% pick vegetables and food, we need to figure out how to rid ourselves of the huge costs of illegal immigrants.
Deport first policies would be enacted if the government had any backbone and LULAC, La Raza and the like would be tried for treason.
In the end, the border should be closed, and all non-citizens deported; anchor babies be sent home via the abuse of the 14th Amendment.
Why are 200,000 gang members here? Non-enforcement of laws. Illegals game the system and need to go.
This Ruben Navarette is nothing less than a domestic enemy! As a Mexican nationalist and a racist, he wants his people in at the cost of everyone else. He is as dedicated to la Raza as any National Socialist was to the Volk. Why anyone who favors a race blind America would publish his rantings is beyond me.
My son is a police officer in Colorado. At least 10% of all the criminals he arrests turn out to be illegals. He is putting his own life on the line every time he attempts to arrest a criminal. His reward for arresting 0a perpetrator who turns out to be an illegal immigrant, is to have to take the same risk with the same individual in the near future. We don’t pay our police officers well enough to allow this to go on.
Yes, I didn’t think this flimsy arguement would gain much traction here. And, Ruben’s main points were lefty-moonbat: Racial profiling, destroying trust, fearful witnesses, “depleting” resources. All the touchy feely stuff.
Ya know, there are a lot of people who don’t think that “racial profiling” is such a bad thing.
The color of one’s skin, nor their ethnicity, are always factors involving law enforcement asking questions & demanding “proof.” I am white, I visited Canada with friends. On the way back, at the checkpoint, we were detained. Seems the guards detain some based on random inspection rules they follow.
I too had to provide “proof” of citizenship. I too had to make sure I was allowed back into my own country. In the end, we were finally released & allowed entry. It took the better part of two hours since these guards were busy with multiple chores. They were not the friendliest people I have ever met. But, they were professional.
The point is, anyone can be detained when encountering the system. Anyone can be expected to show who they are. This is especially so when one is crossing over international borders. It is also so when one is detained by law enforcement for whatever reason. In short, one should always carry some means of identification. If one is traveling internationally, one should make sure they have ample & full documentation of who they are!
The issue, as Mr. Dunphy points out, is that once detained for suspected criminal activity, it is not only reasonable for law enforcement to expect to be able to identify someone through documentation they provide or other means available to law enforcement, it is extremely unreasonable for someone to think they have no obligation to do so.
Many say illegal aliens will not report crimes if they fear police action against them because they are here illegally. The truth is, if one could actually be permitted to do a full study (and not one conducted by a partisan group pushing their cause.. which is what we are typically fed by the media & certain special interest groups), I believe we would find that many, many illegal aliens are not reporting crimes anyway. I think they live in fear of gangs, human traffickers, & thugs, and they fear if they do report someone, they will “get it” in the middle of the night or a member of their family will be targeted.
In the end, calling for laws to go unenforced is a tactic used by some seeking “special” treatment because they know as one who has committed a crime, they are susceptible to the consequences of their actions once discovered. No person or group can justify demanding law enforcement only selectively enforce America’s laws, just because that person or group think their actions are magically justified by some social cause! We must enforce laws based on the good for ALL of society, not just one select group. America cannot try to establish special circumstances for any & all who think their cause is a magically justifiable reason they should be excluded from obeying the law.
We already have numerous government officials and extremely wealthy person demanding they be treated specially because they have money or they have connections. These special circumstance situations are unfair to the rest of the nation who obey the laws of the land. And, its also unfair to those visitors to America who also obey our laws. If they are expected and can find the time & heart to treat the nation whose guest they are with respect, so to can illegal aliens do the same & be expected to pay the consequences if they do not!
It is NOT racial no matter how hard activists try to portray it as such. The issue is simply, obey the law, expect to pay the consequences if you do not, and get right with the law by returning to your native land and applying to come here legally!
It may be cumbersome & difficult, but isn’t American citizenship or legal residence worth it? Apparently it is when one gets the paycheck they came here to get!
I would like the Ruben Navarette to explain how the jurisdiction where he lives is not part of the US of A and falls under the protection and laws of that country.
Does he live in a different country where you can pick and choose which federal laws you want to abide by? You can’t have it both ways and expect to have your point win the argument.
Sir,
It would be quite helpful to publish a list of laws that law enforcement should not (or are required not to) enforce.
It would clear up the misconception many people have that law enforcement personnel should enforce the laws of this country at all levels in the community.
it is sad to see Americans lose the distinction between the rule of law and law and order.
stupid immigration law is not the only set of stupid American laws that destroy both inside and outside of our country. our stupid drug laws create the same sort of chaos both inside and outside of our country.
the American tradition is people breaking such stupid laws. there are today thousands of other stupid laws. environmental law, race law, licensing and permitting every aspect of our being, traffic laws, tax laws etc etc etc. sadly, America’s social right wing fascists are as responsible for this mess as the liberal left ant farmers are.
somewhere in the great beyond, Hayek is nodding his head saying, “fools, i told you this would happen”
i am grateful everyday since i have become an expat, and no longer live in a world with punk cops on every corner, government workers crawling in and out of my every orifice and where if some idiot trips on a curb he is not an idiot but has a viable law suit. leaving the USA has given me perspective. it is no longer, and has not been for a long long time the land of the free. self delusion among Americans abounds. pity. damn pity.
You, Americans, are the new Apache. You should review what happened to we the Apache from the first unlimted illegal immigration from Mexico.
A good book to read is “Apache” by Will Levinton Comfort, its the life of one Apache chief , Mangus Colorados. He fought the illegal immigration all his life. He at the end in his 80′s was at the point of hot iron from a camp fire forced to “flee or fight” , he chose to fight one last time.
Question is, America, will you fight?
As a fellow immigrant I’m usually sympathetic to Ruben’s cause, he’s not a left wing “la raza” type as some might believe. He’s correctly pointed out that GOP needs Latino support, and how that’s actually within reach without having to sell out to amnesty.
Having said that, I disagree with him here. If a criminal was detained and discovered to be an illegal, he needs to be deported immediately. I would even favor a massive raid, if the target in question are dangerous types.
Illegal criminals often hurt their fellow immigrants or minorities who live here legally. It happens all the time in LA. With the durg war seizing some parts of Mexico (a dozen headless bodies discovered in a town) we need to enforce immigration laws now more than ever.
to gcblues,
Personally, I think you’re lying and would love to see your IPO to prove it. What country are you living in that provides you the relief you describe? It can’t be Mexico which treats its immigrants far worse than the US treats its own. In Canada and Europe, you can’t say “boo” to a protected group without getting arrested. The rest of the world (Mid-East, Asia) are police states beyond anything that we could ever imagine here. Please fill us in on this paradise you’ve discovered.
Oh, God, Ruby, YOU AGAIN? Didn’t you offer up some OTHER piece of apologist dreck I was forced to respond to?
Local authorities should ABSOLUTELY enforce Immigration laws. If your house was burning down and the Fire Department was unavailable to – or uninterested in, in the Feds’ case – putting it out, why shouldn’t others closer to the scene who CAN do so put it out? Pure and simple.
Real Americans (yeah, I said it) have had to sit back and watch this country be invaded by lawbreakers while the Bushies have turned a blind eye. If they saw the hellhole that towns on Long Island like Farmingville & Brentwood have become, they might be more inclined to enforce existing laws instead of Hispandering to a gang of foreign criminals and their apologists.
“Why Cops Shouldn’t Enforce Immigration Laws”. Who other than an invader border jumper illegal alien facilitator and supporter would write an article titled as such? Oh, I get it…some groups and those with an agenda want us to pick and choose what laws should be enforced.
Dunphy wrote in his response, “I simply argue that once an illegal immigrant has, through some misdeed beyond unlawful entry into the country, found himself in the clutches of local police officers, it seems entirely reasonable that he should be deported upon completion of whatever sentence he might serve on the local charge.”
This seems reasonable to me, after all when I, or anyone else is stopped for whatever reason by the traffic cop he runs a ‘wants and warrants’ check on my plates and driver license. If such checks determine a person is in violation of our entry laws then comply with the law and boot the guy out. Special order 40 is in fact treasonous perhaps we should have those who wrote and signed it given an appropriate Christmas present – steel braclets with connecting chain seems appropriate.
Mr. Navarette, your, ‘Mexican-American’ comment spoke volumes.
I’m 2nd generation American. My father, you’d never assume he’s first generation. For he doesn’t go by the ridiculous moniker, ‘Italian-American’ title. Special interest and PC groups attempt to inundate our society with these titles, in essence, causing more of a gap in our society. So, congratulations if this is your aim.
Secondly, check out this site:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/crime/homicidemap/
It’s a homicide map, details the homicides occurred in L.A. County in 2008 ALONE to this date whereas you can edit the information you’re looking for. Congratulations, L.A. County, which houses the most illegal alien population in the country, has the most homicides this year to date.. AGAIN! 592. 324 (55%) of those are hispanic. Though L.A. County is as PC friendly as seem to be, Mr. Navarette and doesn’t state ANY of the nationalities legal status. That’s unfortunate, for it would really pinpoint where the problems lie, and heaven forbid, combat them.
Lastly, of the 87 females killed this year, 42 (48%) are hispanic. Yeah, the LAPD profiling, it’s uncalled for…???
I don’t mind so much if people come here illegally. The United States is, in many ways, one of the best countries in the world. Why wouldn’t they want to be here?
But I have two main qualifications:
(1) Any kind of welfare or state and federal assistance should go to citizens and legal residents only.
(2) Criminals who do not belong here should be deported immediately. No due process for aliens who do not recognize our laws.
Just my personal opinion.
Mr. Navarette, pardon me. The aforementioned site -http://www.latimes.com/news/local/crime/homicidemap/
Is only updated to October 19, 2008. I’m sure the lovely L.A. County is well over 600 homicides, more than likely closer to 700 (about 2 per day has been the average this year). Again, L.A. can chant ‘Were #1′
Ruben, you have just been handed your head on a stick. How about admitting that you are wrong?
gcblues:
Please tell me what country you moved to. Is there room for me?
Ruben
Well, I take issue with Mexican-American. You are either Mexican or American! You can’t have two allegiances and be true to one while supporting another – specifically from a political standpoint. Yes, you should be proud of your heritage. Do you know what happens in an official naturalization ceremony? People take an oath to uphold the principles and laws of the land. You either do that or you don’t – you can have it both ways!
as a legal immigrant, i detest illegal immigration and its apologists – we had to jump through many hoops, and these bastards are just jumping the line.
as a taxpayer, i demand that my employees, the local police, enforced the law of the land and held illegal immigrants in infinite detention until federal authorities come around to deport them.
and as a smart person, i cannot help but marvel at the idiocy of the approach to ignore some laws while enforcing others, based on some arbitrary emotional criteria. this is how things are done in communist countries, and this is why their structures crumble – arbitrary enforcement of laws creates the atmosphere of uncertainty and gives ample space to corruption. no wonder author’s veteran cop father was so adamant in defending his source of corruption income…
I’m with Poul as the Husband of an Aussie we’ve been jumping through so much red tape it’s not even funny! Yet if you walk in here illegally no worries! Pah!
Also, the idea of checking on the legal status of a criminal should be common practice, ESPECIALLY in gang related arrests. It should just be a part of the booking process. Hell you don’t have to even have them “Enforce” the law just flag them and report them to ICE and have them deal with them when the police are done. It’s not that big a deal.
Finally, why is it always Mexicans brought up when talking about this? We also have illegals from all over South and Central America, Canada (Go figure!), and Asia. Heck the Asian countries bring over their own breed of gangs/mobs to worry about.
Mr Navarette’s problem is that he really opposes enforcement by anyone but knows that standard is so unpopular as to render all his opinions worthy of mockery. He might ask his father, the cop, if he would prefer not to know the description of a suspect. If I resembled a lawbreaker, it would not offend me to be investigated. I expect police to use all tools at their disposal including physical appearance to try to find criminals.
The specter of racial profiling is trotted out as if the Klan were still lurking in every PD. If Hispanic or Mexican-American legal residents of the US ( both citizen and legal immigrant ) want to reduce being suspected of being illegals, let them begin to cooperate with border enforcement. The current level of cooperation is about where it has been historically, close to zero. The Democratic Party has continually promoted racial and ethnic loyalty and push the idea that Americans who belong to certain groups ( Blacks, Hispanics and the ethnicity of the month ) consider themselves to more (hyphen) Americans than Americans.
Question to Mr. Navarette: if you knew that an illegal lived next door to you, would you turn them in?
The one who calls himself a journalist says “letting local cops enforce immigration law leads to racial profiling, depletes resources, destroys the trust between cops and immigrant communities, and makes policing more difficult by making victims and witnesses fearful to cooperate with those sworn to protect and serve.”
Racial Profiling? Whomever created that phrase is playing simple word games. Get serious, if the majority of a population is hispanic and many are caught in a crime and found to be illegal with regards to immigration status, what is racial about that? Why is it profiling? If the ones caught coming across the Arizona border are Latino, why would an “innocent” American be caught up in the same roundup?
Depletes Resources? Playing a circle jerk by letting know illegals back on the street is why the resource problem never gets any better.
Destroys Trust? Gee, I never thought that a “criminal” would have good feelings towards our police? Imagine that!
Witnesses and Victims are fearful? Well heck yeah! And my first step after getting out of the hospital, if I lived, would be to get a gun. It would make a big difference if enforcement would happen, the criminals were sent back to whatever rock they came from, and then couldn’t get back in so easily. But oh, there are so many good, hard working illegals! Maybe so, but the law is the law.
You and your Dad sound like a couple of idiots who drink the same cool-aid! Some journalist you turned out to be. Should go work for Hugo Chavez maybe. I’m sure he needs some PR.
My father’s view — and my own, along with that of countless other law enforcement officers to which I’ve spoken over the years — is that letting local cops enforce immigration law leads to racial profiling, depletes resources, destroys the trust between cops and immigrant communities, and makes policing more difficult by making victims and witnesses fearful to cooperate with those sworn to protect and serve.
Depletes resources? That’s rich coming form someone who supports a parasitic class. How much money is spent holding those third worlders in jail every year? How much money is spent giving them welfare? How much is identity theft costing this nation? How much American wealth is transfered from our pockets to the dirty little hands of “immigrants”?
I suppose all that should take a backseat to racial profiling.
Just remember, immigrants living in the US illegally have more rights than those of legal US emigres living in Mexico. Merry Christmas, Compadres.
Maricopa County, Arizona is the best area in the country for reliable illegal alien crime statistics. The county sheriff, Joe Arpaio, has aggressively decided to combat illegal alien crime in his county. He has partnered with federal ICE through the 287 (g) program which trains local law enforcement personnel in determining and dealing with illegal aliens. He has a well staffed Triple I Unit (Illegal Immigrant Interdiction Unit).
The MCAO report from County Attorney Andrew Thomas features these startling numbers for prosecuted felony cases in Maricopa County, Arizona:
In 2007, illegal immigrants accounted for:
10% of sex crimes convictions
11% of murders convictions
13% of stolen cars convictions
13% of aggravated assaults convictions
17% of those sentenced for violent crimes
19% of those sentenced for property crimes
20% of those sentenced for felony DUI.
21% of crimes committed with weapons
34% of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale or transport of drugs
36% of those sentenced for kidnapping
44% of forgeries
50% of those sentenced for crimes related to “chop shops”
85% of false ID convictions
96% of smuggling convictions
Illegal immigrants make up 19 percent of those convicted of crimes in Maricopa County and 21 percent of those in county jails.
Illegal immigrants only make up an estimated 9 percent of the county’s population.
It is estimated that each violent crime cost citizens $20,000, and each property crime cost citizens $4,363 per offense.
While I basically agree with what Ruben says in this article, that we cannot just grab people off the streets even if they may be illegal (illegals who have been arrested for other crimes, or the massive supremacist la raza rallies are different). That is wholly antithetical to what it means to be free.
Despite our common ground on this one issue, it doesn’t change the fact that Ruben only ever uses straw men, deflection, appeals to emotions, uncited claims and sometimes outright falsehoods in his “journalism”. Jack Dunphy has already covered everything else I wanted to say.
Ruben, but how can you enforce them then? The INS is incredibly inefficient, and to make it an effective national force would require prohibitive levels of spending and manpower.
Unless you want to create a local border patrol state by state to deal with this, your article may just wind up making any real action too improbable to be done.
“Taking Back the Streets: ICE and Local Law Enforcement Target Immigrant Gangs” is the Center for Immigration Studies report that offers these highlights:
# Transnational immigrant gangs have been spreading rapidly and sprouting in suburban and rural areas where communities are not always equipped to deal with them.
# A very large share of immigrant gang members are illegal aliens and removable aliens. Federal sources estimate that 60 to 90 percent of the members of MS-13, the most notorious immigrant gang, are illegal aliens. In one jurisdiction studied, Northern Virginia, 30 to 40 percent of the gang task force case load were removable aliens.
# MS-13 activity was found in 48 states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico.
# The immigrant gangsters arrested were a significant menace to the public. About 80 percent had committed serious crimes in addition to their immigration violations and 40 percent were violent criminals.
# While immigration law enforcement is a federal responsibility, ICE cannot do the job effectively without assistance from state and local law enforcement, particularly when it comes to immigrant gangs.
# Failure to adequately control the U.S.-Mexico border and to deter illegal settlement in general undermines the progress ICE and local law enforcement agencies have made in disrupting criminal immigrant street gangs.
While immigration law enforcement is a federal responsibility, ICE cannot do the job effectively without assistance from state and local law enforcement, particularly when it comes to immigrant gangs (many of which are illegal aliens or the children (anchor babies) of illegal aliens).
I live in a border state. Without sheriff Joe we would now be called Mexizona. La Raza and people like Ruben contribute to the power of “entitled” law breakers. Many illegals feel it is just a matter of time before they will get amnesty from Obama. They have been well coached on how to steal from the U.S. social system. News reports that many are leaving U.S. and returning to Mexico. But, anchor babies disolve that minus.
“The INS is incredibly inefficient,…”
And the open borders/illegal immigrant apologists intend to keep it that way. If local police enforcement of immigration laws results in reduced rates of illegal immigration, well, there’ll none of that!
What I would love to see is the prosecution of those, to include family members, who abet and enable ilegal immigration. I do question their loyalty to this country and it’s laws.
What makes violations of immigration laws so special that the police shouldn’t enforce them?
What other laws shouldn’t they enforce then?
Maybe we could each submit our own personal wish list of laws we would like not to be enforced by police.
ARAMKR and Bill.
i split time between Costa Rica and Nicaragua. i have not been in the USA for 3 yrs, each time i return is is stupider and stupider …. see first comment i made.
bill, your ignorance describes the lack of stamps in your passport. if you have ever left the usa i am sure it is as a tourist on a controled planned trip. likely you have not gotten past the buffet.
Mexico, like the usa uses and does not use their laws in a discriminatory manner solely to advance their needs. when to their advantage they use or do not use the law. this is the number one thing such “social” legislation causes, corruption. Americans are always surprised when travelers see the USA as corrupt or more corrupt than countries such as Mexico and Nicaragua. good lord, simply look at your IRS requirements, look at the bailouts, look at the president elect. gimme a break.
bill, there is no excuse for your shallow thoughts. take a non tourist visit to my quinta en playas del coco en la playa de costa rica or my casa colonial en Rivas Nicaragua. i will introduce you to real communists, real ex contras and ex members of la guardia, you can review the tax and labor laws and see how little they are adhered to, and then actually make an educated comment.
all the USA does with its millions of laws regulations, permits and punk cops is make it’s citizens prisoners. que bueno.
it is a telling state of affairs when the communist government under criminal Ortega has lower taxes and less repression than an average person can experience than in the uSA. buena suerte, you’ll need it.
TO: Ruben Navarrette Jr., et al.
RE: Heh
Shouldn’t this title read….
Heck.
Secretarys’ of State won’t enforce the Constitution of the United States.
Why the hell should anyone expect cops to enforce laws too?
’nuff said.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Those who believe that the ends justify the means will always prevail over those who believe in the rule of law, if those who enforce the law allow it to happen. -- CBPelto]
P.S. Guess what…..
the USA? nice concept, but it is over.
40 million hispanic people in this country looking for a way to stay will be given their wish during this election cycle. this will so tilt the numbers in favor of the democrats as to make it impossible for a republican to become president in the next 60 years.
nobody will enforce the laws as it serves the purpose of the ruling elite.
AND THE DEMOCRAT TRIAL LAWYERS WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY:
http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/12/lawsuit-abuse-democrat-holy-grail.html
“Racial Profiling?” What the heck is wrong with that. If the police get a report that three Hispanic males, between the ages of 18 and 24 just robbed a bank and fled in a green ’64 Chevy, how sane would it be for them to start stopping ’02 white Cadillacs driven by two 75-year-old, blue-haired ladies? THAT’S what “racial profiling” IS, for Pete’s sake! It’s a perfectly legitimate law enforcement tool. That it’s gotten such a bad rap by those on the far left is ample proof that racial profiling actually WORKS.
Dave D:
Ruben, but how can you enforce them then? The INS is incredibly inefficient, and to make it an effective national force would require prohibitive levels of spending and manpower.
Unless you want to create a local border patrol state by state to deal with this, your article may just wind up making any real action too improbable to be done.
Dec 23, 2008 – 7:49 pm
I thought of that immediately, too, but, I suspect that your last sentence is the actual point of Ruben’s strategy. Keep the US mostly defenseless against illegal immigration.
It’s like a person saying they’re only going to exercise if it’s likely they’ll become an Olympic champion, otherwise, they’re just going to sit on the couch eating Cheetos. Well, guess what’s the likely outcome in that scenario?
As partial evidence of the civil rights protection for aliens, the 14th Amendment caontains the following clause:
“No state shall … deprive any PERSON of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
Nothe the ue of the word “person” not citizen.
The rules that prevent police officers from “rounding up” unauthorized aliens are the same rules that protect you and every other American from unwarranted search and seizure, unlawful detentions, and the “knock in the night” on your front door. Ilegal immigrations is a definite issue that cannot be solved with simplistic “feel-good” responses.
The removal of aliens not authorized in the U.S. is an adminisrtative process, not a criminal process.
Maybe if officer “Dunphy” wasn’t so busy worring about ilegal aliens and focuses on fighting crime out in the streets, like he should be doing, maybe then…