Why Aren’t the Feds Using RICO to Go After ACORN?
To give you an idea of how far the mail fraud sections of RICO have been utilized in federal prosecutions:
Prosecutors can build up on a foundation of “predicate acts” that:
may extend over two or three decades. They may include crimes on which the statute of limitations has run, crimes that could not themselves be prosecuted in a federal court, crimes that could not be joined with one another in separate prosecutions, crimes of which the defendant already has been convicted and for which he has been punished, and even crimes of which he has been acquitted in a state court. The courts, if faithful to the statute, have no way to prevent this sprawl.
Broader even yet than RICO prosecutions based on predicate crimes of mail fraud, bribery or other offenses, are those brought on conspiracy grounds:
Since he had been acquitted on the substantive RICO count, Mr. Salinas argued that had not committed the two predicate acts necessary to sustain a conviction for RICO conspiracy. Rejecting Mr. Salinas’ argument (as well as the rule in the First, Second, and Tenth Circuits), the Supreme Court applied the conventional meaning of the phrase “to conspire” and held that the RICO conspiracy statute requires only that the defendant intended to further criminal conduct that would violate RICO’s substantive prohibitions.(snip) The Supreme Court held that, although Salinas did not commit or agree to commit the predicate acts, “[t]he evidence showed that [the Sheriff] committed at least two acts of racketeering activity and that Salinas knew about and agreed to facilitate the scheme. This is sufficient to support a conviction under §1962(d).” Salinas, 1997 WL 737692 at *10. Thus, a RICO conspirator need not have committed or agreed to commit the underlying predicate acts so long as, if conspiracy’s object were accomplished, two predicate acts would be committed and the statute would be violated.
While the cavalry isn’t riding to the rescue even though they apparently have the means to do so, a group of Ohioans are. On October 14, the Buckeye Institute, whose membership includes former Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, filed suit on behalf of two Ohio voters against ACORN and Project Vote/Voting for America.
The suit is brought under the Ohio Corrupt Practices Act, a state law similar to the federal RICO act. Among its factual assertions are these developed in Congressional hearings:
- From 2004-2006 ACORN has received $4.6 million in federal funds for its Housing Corporation.
- ACORN has 150 subsidiary organizations with a total operating budget of over $110 million this year.
- All the 150 subsidiaries operate from the top as a single enterprise, including the nonprofit Project Vote and the political operation known as Citizens Services.
- Citizens Services has endorsed Barack Obama and has received over $832,000 from Obama’s campaign during the primary period for services.
- ACORN and Citizen’s Services share the same board of directors. They also share office space in New Orleans.
The suit documents numerous instances of in-state predicate acts, including the following:
- Forgery, uttering forged documents, tampering with writings and records.
- Harassing people to encourage them to register multiple times; bribing people to register multiple times; registering non-existent and clearly ineligible voters (like minors); registering the same person in multiple counties; providing fraudulent and forged documents.
The suit documents numerous predicate acts committed by ACORN outside Ohio as well, specifically in Nevada, Indiana, Missouri, Colorado, Vrginia, Washington, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Mexico, Texas, Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Carolina.
The suit asks the court to take notice of the “lengthy and ubiquitous history of voter fraud, embezzlement, misuse of taxpayer funds” and concludes that ACORN’s pattern of fraud can no longer be dismissed as mere random unfortunate acts by some ACORN agents. Buckeye argues, and we can hardly dispute:
81. ACORN itself, and not just its agents, is responsible for the perpetration of the predicate acts articulated heretofore, in that it either acted with intent to cause these acts, or with negligence or reckless indifference as to whether these acts occurred.
82. Given its hiring, training, and compensation practices, ACORN knew or should have known that its conduct would cause fraud, and knows or should know that its conduct will cause fraud in the future.
I wonder: why the cavalry hasn’t suited up? Indeed, I can think of no good reason why it has failed to do so. Surely it’s as easy for the federal government, with all its resources, to start questioning witnesses and examining registration materials. It can examine ACORN’s books, and the materials seized from some of its offices. It can begin to prosecute this fraud which has such a damaging impact on the body politic and convinced the public that a fair election is impossible.
In the meantime, like settlers in the old Saturday afternoon oaters, we greet the band of heroes from Ohio with flowers and a hope that they will prevail in the coming battle.
Why? Lack of will, lack of courage, lack of b@lls.
How about the left will make it look like the Bush administration is using the government’s power in a partisan fashion to disenfranchise to poor weak oppressed Democrat voters? You have to put yourself in the shoes of the people we’re fighting against. They’ll turn anything we do against us.
Just one of many crimes committed by the Democrats this cycle.
Why isn’t the Federal Election Commission investigating the Ohhhhhh…..BAAMA campaign?
“The Federal Election Commission (or FEC) is an independent regulatory agency that was founded in 1975 by the United States Congress to regulate the campaign finance legislation in the United States. It was created in a provision of the 1975 amendment to the Federal Election Campaign Act. It describes its duties as “to disclose campaign finance information, to enforce the provisions of the law such as the limits and prohibitions on contributions, and to oversee the public funding of Presidential elections.”"
From Wikipedia;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Election_Commission
The Media has found instances of illegal campaign contributions as well as attempts to prevent disclosure.
Not to mention that Obama offered a fake birth certificate as evidence of his being a natural born citizen.
Considering that his in-laws say he was born in Kenya and he countered that claim with a fake birth certificate, it seems that there is a legitimate issue here involving the Constitutional requirements for Obama being a candidate.
It would be nice if somebody had sought to have him removed from the ballot. Would a writ of mandamus be able to do that?
Meanwhile, none of the bureaucrats in D.C. will not gamble on Obamassiah losing, since if they do, Ohhhh…..BAAMA is NOT Bush and he will crush them like a bug. Bush didn’t mess with the Bureaucrats much, which is why they screwed him.
It may be a tough case to make if, as ACRON claims (I’m not an expert on this area of law), they are required to turn in every voter registration regardless of how obviously faked it is. It is the job of the state elections boards to discover fraud, not ACORN’s.
Prosecutors would need to find some directive (two, I guess) from a fairly high source in ACORN instructing canvassers to fake registrations or at least stating that the may fulfill their quotas by faking registrations.
Your tax dollars at work (funding acorn).
Your tax dollars not at work (the DOJ & Congress refusing to investigate or prosecute this organized crime syndicate).
Something else that fits RICO: malfeasance from fannie mae & the complicit corruption from congress critters.
You wonder why the cavalry hasn’t suited up? Several commenters already nailed it: The Bush White House & it’s persistent cajones-lessness.
Look how long it took them to move like molasses to counter-act the illegal alien invasion & enforce laws already on the books.
ACORN is a more malignant infestation, though. More dollars are in more pockets of more congress people than La Racist could ever hope to muster.
ACORN knows where these congress critters live and where all the bodies are buried. And our tax dollars are buying the knives which these organized criminals use to slit our throats.
Metaphorically speaking.
I blame gub’mint schools. Literally.
This is not at all surprising to me. Alarming yes, but surprising no, since all of the other negatives are not published or reported that the Democrats have their greedy little hands in.
The best way to invalidate the Constitution is to ignore it.
I guess you would try anything to deny people the right to vote. I thought in a democracy we wanted all the people eligible to vote to vote. My vote is just a valuable as a poor person’s or a rich person. What ACORN was trying to do was to get as many people as possible registered. Unless you believe in a dictatorship of the proletariat
“What ACORN was trying to do was to get as many people as possible registered. ”
What you say is very true, whether they were eligible or not.
Robert:
I can understand that. Why should people lose their vote because they are dead? I think imaginary people are cool too so let’s give them a vote. And voting so important why are limiting people to only one vote. You know what they say in Chicago: vote early, vote often.
You have convinced me. Acorn is doing the country a great service by bringing the dead to life, animinating the fictional and of course helping people make their voices heard in multiple locations.
The FBI has more political savvy than that, they know that if they go after the “One” the media will attack them the way the attacked Palin or Joe the Plumber. They know that they cannot complete the investigation before the election and Obami and his Justice department will kill their efforts. They understand the Corruptocrats and their methoeds.
Indictment and prosecution is chronologically secondary to investigation. There is no reason for a prosecutor to go into any fresh investigation with a preconceived notion of what the charge will be. No matter how vigorously or not the FBI may be investigating, it would be weeks, and more likely months, before enough evidence is assembled to go to a grand jury for indictments of anyone about anything.
This is not footdragging. If they are just looking right now at what has been already seized, they are not in a position yet to establish who to interview, what to subpoena, where to serve search warrants, and how to establish enough “probable cause” for a judge to approve those warrants. All of this is further complicated by the fact that the problems have occurred in multiple states.
These things are wrapped up in 45 minutes with commercials only on television.
Moreover, RICO demands more than just the identification of individual crimes, it also requires establishment of a pattern of intentional criminal collusion among the parties involved. This is usually very difficult without some form of long term eavesdropping, which is too late to do here.
Be satisfied that the matter is being investigated at all. And don’t demand progress reports. If the investigation is serious, the less the investigators talk about it the better.
The FEC is suppose to do this but, surprisingly the Demoncratic majority failed to confirm the members. Does this sound like a plan by the party to steal the election from the beginning?
Jerry:
I have alwasys found that eh poll watchers were always careful not to let dead people vote. There might be some place where Mickey mouse would be aloowed to vote, but I asume it would be places like Oz. Yopu have to separate the issue of the workers who wanted to add anyone they could think up so they could get paid more money from tue voter fraud. There has not been any voter fraud.
Ummm, maybe because they aren’t complete morons?
The ACORN business is a non-issue among non-right wingers (aka the well informed). ACORN apparently used a number of unemployed people for the registration stuff as a way for them to earn some money, and it was some of these people who tried to slack off doing real voter registration work by filling in made-up names. ACORN staffers recognized immediately that there were bogus names used, but most of the states require that *all* of the voter registration lists get turned in regardless — which actually makes sense if you think it through — so ACORN had no choice but to turn the lists in as is.
There was no conspiracy of any sort, hence absolutely no applicability of RICO in any sense.
You guys are just seeing windmills as dragons….
Now, if you want to talk RICO about stuff like this….: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27266607
George W. Bush is politically correct. He is terrified of being called a racist. And that’s exactly what will occur the very moment anyone in his administration takes on ACORN! White race guilt threatens the very existence of Western Civilization. We are doomed if this nonsense continues.
jerry:
Seriously? You can register all the fake people want, but that doesn’t mean they can show up on voting day and cast a ballot. Are you telling me that you don’t understand the difference between being registered to vote and actually voting?
jerry:
Seriously? You can register all the fake people want, but that doesn’t mean they can show up on voting day and cast a ballot. Are you telling me that you don’t understand the difference between being registered to vote and actually voting?
This is one of the more fascinating parts of this whole argument: the idea that imaginary, dead, or ineligible people being registered to vote is somehow “harmless”. Since the imaginary people can’t actually vote, and dead people obviously can’t, it’s harmless to have their names on the voter rolls, isn’t it?
The difficulty is that some “activist” goes down to Skid Row or some other disadvantaged area of town, on the day of the election, in the early morning. He has a “get out the vote” van, and he fills it up with willing homeless people. He has a list of precincts to go to, and a list of registered voters for each precinct. At each precinct, he tells each homeless person what name he’s to use here, and when they return, having voted for the appropriate candidate (anyone care to guess which one?) he gives the homeless person $20.00. This way, these homeless people can vote 10 or 15 times in a day (maybe more) for the proper candidate. Since most of their homeless friends don’t vote at all, it balances out, and of course this makes sure that the votes are cast for the correct candidate. Voter registration should be restricted to those actually eligible to vote, and they should only be eligible in one precinct.
I hear someone babbling Obama talking points and I hear Obama laughing in the background at his gullible supporters.
A corrupted voting roll enables vote fraud especially in an era where we have lots of early/absentee balloting. Let’s take the house in Columbus as an example. Thirteen illegal voters ask for absentee ballots. They get them and they vote them. By the way that is common practice among a certain class of Florida voters. They maintain residency in NYC, vote absentee and vote in Florida as well.
Inflated voter rolls also allow precinct workers in places with essentially single party control to snatch some extra votes at the end of the day. That’s how precincts in Seattle and Philadelphia achieved more then 100% participation in the 2004 election.
But the real negative impact of fraudulent registration is that it undermines the integrity of the electoral process in close elections. This year Ohio’s rolls are so suspect that anything less then a 5% margin of victory can be challenged as phony. I don’t expect a replay of the 2000 election where a single state will determine the outcome but if comes down to Ohio and the state is near a 50-50 split then losing side will be screaming vote fraud or voter suppression. Not a pleasant situation is it?
One my friends posed the rhetorical question as to what difference 10-20 thousand stolen votes would make in an election with 120 million votes casts. To that I offer the rejoinder ask Richard Nixon if a few thousand stolen votes make a difference.
RICO is higher level group crime. Obama would be flattered for having them tried at that level above the individual street thug level.
Do the parties know they are entitled to “Poll Watchers” in every polling place? I know this might lead to the next “Civil War” but a full list of voters in that poll checked off by a poll watcher might just scare away trouble in voting ! Did this in the Reagan campaign years ago. (of course maybe this freedom has been taken away by now?0
The DOJ was emasculated by the Gonzalez affair. Those Lawyers who were left standing are Democrats. That’s how Obama’s going after those who go after ACORN rather than ACORN itself.
Jerry:
Do you have any proof of the following:
“Thirteen illegal voters ask for absentee ballots. They get them and they vote them. By the way that is common practice among a certain class of Florida voters. They maintain residency in NYC, vote absentee and vote in Florida as well.
Inflated voter rolls also allow precinct workers in places with essentially single party control to snatch some extra votes at the end of the day. That’s how precincts in Seattle and Philadelphia achieved more then 100% participation in the 2004 election.
But the real negative impact of fraudulent registration is that it undermines the integrity of the electoral process in close elections. This year Ohio’s rolls are so suspect that anything less then a 5% margin of victory can be challenged as phony”
If not, you are either gullible or repeating someting your heard because it conforms to what you believe
“I guess you would try anything to deny people the right to vote.”
Yes, it’s soooooo hard to register to vote. They make it practically impossible! That’s why ACORN has to hire felons to sit in alleys filling out fake applications.
David:
I see the Obamatrons are out in force trying to prove that it’s ok because it’s just registration.
How about this. False registration is a crime. Let’s proscecute the criminals.
So why is it now a crime to vote in America?
Is there anything the neo-cons WON’T DO to prevent the Obama Presidency? What about the crimes Bush had committed? He is guilty of voter suppression. He stole the elections in 2000 and in 2004.
And today they are trying to suppress the Obama vote. Technically-speaking slavery no longer exists in America today. But many Africans in America are still slaves.
There are 2 million Africans who rot today in America’s prisons. Some of them may have done something improper but the vast majority of them are political prisoners who have been sent to prison on trumped-up or on entirely false charges such as with Kwame Kilpatrick.
Racial profiling is the first step in the process. Many white police departments have quotas which require their officers to arrest certain number of Africans per day. African men are often arrested for merely stepping outside of their homes.
Bond is supposed to ensure that a defendant will show up for court hearings. When someone is arrested, he or she appears before a magistrate or judge, who then decides how much money the person must post to get out of jail. Bail isn’t about punishment. Yet, often it is set too high for any African to pay, so they sit in jail. This helps ensure that millions of votes to Democrat leaders are denied so that Republicans can stay in power.
The number of Africans being arrested has increased dramatically since the rise of Barack Obama. White police departments are under increased pressure from the Bush Regime to round up as many Africans as possible so they cannot vote for Senator Obama.
This does not go unnoticed by the world. The People’s Republic of China for example, has noted that:
“Racial discrimination is serious in law enforcement. According to a study by the Justice Policy Institute of the United States, Africans constitute only 12.9 percent of America’s total population, but African prisoners account for 46 percent of the total in jail in the nation; approximately one in every five Africans in America are jailed for some time during his or her life.”
http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com
This is seriously retarded. voter registration fraud does not equal voter fraud. Do you seriously expect Mickey Mouse to show and vote? 10,000 fraudulent registrations? Really? Anything to back that up Clarise or did you pull those numbers out of your ass?
Acorn pays people to register voters. These people don’t do they’re job and fill out some bogus info. Acorn is still required to turn them in (for obvious reasons) but they still flag the “suspect” registrations. There is no evidence that there has been even one case of voter fraud because of this. This is just a distraction to keep people from talking about what is really important.
Of course, these are the same people (ACORN, et al) who go orbital when identification at the polls brought up. Wonder why that is.
So ACORN’s swamping registrars with phony voters is not big deal? Of course: people like you know that county registrars have unlimited time to investigate them right?
I am sure you’d feel the same way if a group flooded the local welfare office with phony benefit applications that ahd to be ruled upon by a deadline.
ACORN is obviously trying to swamp the counties with a tidal wave of phony registrations, certain that 90% of them will vote for Obama. And the one to be hurt by this effort to swindle the public will be Obama: win or lose, his campaign will be tainted by this for years to come.
“Not to mention that Obama offered a fake birth certificate as evidence of his being a natural born citizen.”
Oh, boy, is there a conspiracy theory that doesn’t gain currency at the jammies?
You know, these Obamatrons just can’t get past talking points. When you live in the bizzaro world you end up thinking that your opponents are stupid and you are enlightened.
I explained how it’s done in my second post. You swamp the registration system in order to create chaos on election day so you can get the illegal votes in. It’s really no use arguing with these people.
Don’t you get it? They are laughing at you. This will be the first time in history that electorate is going to deliberately choose the least qualified/unqualified candidates. It is clear by now, and validated by CBS news that Palin is more qualified then Biden. Biden himself acknoweleges that his #1 isn’t up to the job. You people are stupid.
Lets face it. The republicans got completely outclassed in terms of getting their candidate to win the election. Acorn and the fact it won’t be investigated is just another weapon in the democrat’s arsenal.
Maybe because that would set a precedent, and the Fed would have to go after the Fed under it as well.
Well, since the Justice Department is part of the Bush admin, if you have a problem with this, blame Bush! Oh no, you can’t blame Bush, that is Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Lets face it. The republicans got completely outclassed in terms of getting their candidate to win the election. Acorn and the fact it won’t be investigated is just another weapon in the democrat’s arsenal.
Yeah. The law is irrelevant. It’s the sale that matters.
Remember what happened to the White House Travel Office when the Clintons were first elected?
These guys have jobs to protect. Can’t afford to piss off their potential bosses.
If you really believe that the DEMOCRATS are responsible for all of this (I do), then the only way to correct it is to vote REPUBLICAN across the board, regardless of how you feel about the individual you’re voting for.
It WILL send a message to the Democratic Party and especially to those in California (Pelosi) and Nevada (Reid).
wow… An organization using taxpayer money to forge or produce invalid voter registrations, and the only thing some people can see in that, is that enforcing the law must be racist…
These ACORN people are really scary. I think they are trying to steal the election – this is soo unfair!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNgMKPV9xQ&e
maybe its tens of millions
or billions ?
you are liars.
becasye ACORN hired people, does not mean they conspired with them and Prima Facia eveidence is their instructions to the field staff.
why do you all lie so much?
It’s called DoS (Denial of Service) attack, a very effective method of disrupting operation of a targeted site. By swamping a system with a boatload of fake requests it precludes service of legitimate ones.
Maybe it has to with this: “In all, DOJ lawyers and staff in the metro area have donated at least $150,000 to Obama. No wonder they seem more interested in prosecuting those who warn against vote fraud than enforcing vote-fraud laws.”
h/t Imstapundit
IOW, the federal establishment has thrown in with the MSM and just said “Ahhh, screw the Constitution –it’s always SO much hassle”. Wonder how far it is from here to “political police”? Not far, judging from Gonzalez and Libby. “Gird your loins” said Sen Biden today. He meant re foreign policy, but i think it’s good general advice.
Or Maaaaaaaybe the Republicans are taking small time fraud (bilking ACORN out of fees) by a few idiots and making it into something it really is not (“Massive voter fraud”. There is a big difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud. One effects the election directly and the former is an individual act of cheating. They are both potentially prosecutable, however a few months or weeks before an election it is most prudent to look at any potential voter fraud (actually voting when not entitled to do so). The vast majority of Election officials (of both parties) and the vast majority of US Attorneys looking into the complaints have determined that the incidents are small and not likely to cause problems to the election system. Should it be looked into and prosecuted? Sure! Is it something that is pressing and “Massive”? hardly.
Nick, maybe it’s because of our eyes and ears. What’s YOUR excuse?
really, if the government is rolling over and allowing a fraudulent election, we should just go ahead and quit the federal government. No more $oup for DC. Ten or twenty million pissed-off people can get some attention that way. First order of business; fire every son of a b*tch in DC and start over fresh. Yes, we’ll lose a few states to Mexico and Russia but we can keep a rump America somewhere around Nebraska that can follow the dadgum election laws.
I love the “no proff of voter fraud” line. How can there be proof when no ID is required to vote? It isn’t all Mickey Mouse and Tony Romo. If I know that Bo Phillips is registered and doesnt exit, I can easily go say I am him. No one would ever know. Only requiring proof would allow it to be caught. If there are no means to prove that a crime occured, it doesnt mean it didnt happen. So, you can see how the “voter fraud doesn’t happen” people are ALWAYS the same as the “ID requirements are unfair” people.
Given its hiring, training, and compensation practices, the US ARMY knew or should have known that its conduct would cause war crimes, and knows or should know that its conduct will cause war crimes in the future.
a facutal statement
The feds aren’t going after Acorn because Acorn is essentially Marxist. If they were capitalist they would be hounded into prison via RICO, as was Michael Milken, to name one.
Here’s a start:
ACORN Watch: RICO suit filed in Ohio:
By Michelle Malkin • October 14, 2008 12:31 PM
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/14/acorn-watch-rico-suit-filed-in-ohio/
=======================================
ACORN Watch: The FBI steps in:
By Michelle Malkin • October 16, 2008 01:02 PM
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/16/acorn-watch-the-fbi-steps-in/
Let’s turn the (a)corn grinder on and crush some ACORN.
Elect John McCain – Honor, Integrity, Leadership and Patriotism.
ACORN works in Colorado
ID is required
your argument again is false
but tyical of lying losing GOPers.
Crooked lawyers.
DOJ lawyers are “in the tank” for Obama. There isn’t an impartial one available to seek the indictment.
“In all, DOJ lawyers and staff in the metro [DC] area have donated at least $150,000 to Obama. No wonder they seem more interested in prosecuting those who warn against vote fraud than enforcing vote-fraud laws.”
http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/QuinHillyer/Quin-essential_cases_No_Righting_Voting_Wrongs_in_Ohio.html
It seems a better question to ask is: is using the DOJ for fake, politically motivated investigations to create a pretext for arguing the 2008 election was “stolen” an impeachable offense? Not that the average wrong-wing zombie has the guts or independent thought capacity to ask those sorts of questions. Hell, punctuation and spelling seem beyond their capabilities.
Rico is NOT a state statute
Nick, your having a keyboard is a war crime.
tominstl
One effective way to prove your theory is this , every voter should present his State ID or Driver’s License and two forms of Identification and oh yes fingerprinted during voter registration . When it’s time for them to cast their ballots , they will not only present the same identification papers to the election officials , they will be required to be fingerprinted using indelible ink and their finger prints will be compared to the ones taken during registration and then they will be permitted to vote . It’s difficult to cheat if you know that you are marked .
Rico act is a FEDERAL law
and I love Ah attacks, it shows you are lacking intelligence.
Hopefully McCain will clean out the nest of leftard vipers in the DoJ when he is elected. Bush was unwilling to really exercise his power over State and DoJ in eliminating the kind of enabling behavior we are seeing here.
Tho, to give Bush credit, he did get rid of the WA federal attorney who allowed the vote fraud to occur in Washington state the last election cycle.
yes walk on by
let kids release parking brake and go in traffice
let kids start car and have care go in traffic
let kids roll window up suffocating the other
all things that HAVE happened in Denver metro!
The feds won’t bother to go after ACORN since they know BO would pardon the scoundrels, if elected. They also know that BO would pack the Supreme Court, which would toss out the case for a spurious reason yet to be fabricated.
David, right, there is the career to be considered. Spouse & kids, the house, responsibilities. It’s what happened to the networks and newspapers, after all.
duh!
mccain is losing
and will lose big
Welcome to the new Rule of Fear. America is entering its own Cultural Revolution. There will be no Governmental support for anything that
contradicts the the new ideology of Racial Political Correctness. And this is juat one of the ways it will tyrannize us.
buddy larsen:
“Nick, your having a keyboard is a war crime.” – Republican right and the KGB – a match made in heaven
Don’t give it to him. Make him steal it.
It ought to be illegal for private organizations to register voters. Let the feds handle it at post offices and whatnot.
Cut off federal funding of groups like ACORN.
Problem solved.
Its important to elect a democrat for president by what ever means necessary. Its always easier to ask for forgiveness than seek permission.
I was going to drop this thread as a pointless exercise in arguing with mindless robots but this article in the American Spectator changed my mind. It is a survey of Democratic Party conducted vote fraud.
http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/10/22/voter-fraud
Here an excerpt about a Federal Prosecution of vote fraud in Chicago (of course) in 1982. The Feds laid out how it was done. It is a much better explanation of how fraudulent registration gets translated in vote fraud.
Chicago
Extensive voter fraud has persisted to this day. Former Justice Department official Hans von Spakovsky discusses in a recent Heritage Foundation report a shocking 1982 election for Governor in Illinois in which 10% of the votes cast in Chicago, 100,000 overall, were found to be fraudulent by a federal grand jury investigation that produced 63 criminal convictions for vote fraud. Spakovsky writes:
What particularly struck FBI agent Ernest Locker was how routine vote fraud was for the precinct captains, election judges, poll watchers, and political party workers he interviewed. They had been taught how to steal votes (and elections) by their predecessors, who had in turn been taught by their predecessors.
One primary method of perpetuating such fraud was for impersonators to vote in the name of dead people, people who had moved away, and fraudulently registered names. Impersonators were sometimes paid in cigarettes, liquor, or cash, known in the trade as “walking around money.” Votes for a straight Democrat ticket, regardless of the actual voter’s preferences, were also cast for the elderly, the disabled, and the sick who were unaware of what was going on. Then Chicago U.S. Attorney Dan Webb estimated that 80,000 illegal aliens were registered to vote in the city at the time, and that was 25 years ago.
Precinct captains filled out absentee ballots obtained by others, and absentee ballots with Republican votes were trashed. Another method was to alter the vote count by repeatedly running straight party line ballots through the counting machine, or altering the counting machine vote totals.
Unfortunately, as Spakovsky notes, the Justice Department has never again engaged in such a thorough investigation of vote fraud. Most likely, the practice continues in Chicago today. Moreover, similar practices have recently been exposed in Philadelphia, where sometimes more votes are cast than the number of residents, and in Wisconsin and Tennessee.
Only those capable of actual thought will be convinced by this article but it stands as a refutation of the “it’s only registration meme.”
Berg v. Obama, et al. Civil Case No. 08-cv-04083
and the fec IS involved. they’re trying with everything they are to stop the american people from getting access to pertinent, appropriate information about a man who chose to put himself in the limelight.
we hear all the time about how there actually is no such thing as a party system of election and that everyone up in dc is in on it. that berg’s civil case is going nowhere fast is helping drive that ideal home.
I see that the disease that is Osamabamaites has effected this site as well (ie nick etc). There is also a highly organized liberal movement to infect all the Conservative leaning sites this cycle that has not happened before. Because of the hate, intimidation and threathening behavior of the Osama scoundrels, they have effectively shut down the AIM (Accuracy in Media) site. It used to be a great site to comment and discuss, but all of the regulars there for years have been driven off by the despicable behavior of Osamas cruel minions. They are supposed to be the “tolerant” ones! Don’t ever believe that – the left are the most intolerant people in the world.
Has anyone ever considered that the entire Osama campaign should be prosecuted under the RICO statute? And this organized criminal conspiracy just may become the next President? I am afriad America is finished if that happens!
OsamaLinBiden: “voter registration fraud does not equal voter fraud.”
one, methinks thou doth protest too much, olb.
two, if the registration goes to a legitimate address, rumor on the www has long been that obama made sure he hired someone with the tech savvy to cover the rest of the necessities.
ACORN IS THE OLD QUOTE …. THE FOX’S ARE GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE …….. TRUST US …… WE KNOW BETTER ….. WE SHOOT THE FOX AND SAVE THE CHICKENS ..IN THIS CASE AMERICA .
LOCK THEM UP NOW OR HOLD OFF THE ELECTION UNTIL IT CAN BE DONE FAIRY AND HONEST SINCE TOO MUCH IS A STAKE LIKE AMERICA BE COMING A DAMN SOCIALIST STATE ….. NEVER IN OUR HISTORY .
I AM AMAZED SINCE WHEN I VOTE IN A COUNTY OUTSIDE OF RICHMOND VA …… I ”HAVE ‘ TO HAVE MY VOTER REGISTRATION CARD OR I DON’T VOTE … PERIOD .
4 YEARS AGO I WENT TO VOTE AND HAD FORGOTTEN MY VOTER ID …… THE LADY THERE KNEW ME FOR MANY YEARS BUT SHE MADE ME GO HOME AND GET MY VOTER ID IF I WANTED TO VOTE WHICH IS FAIR .
WE COULD MAKE THIS SIMPLE BUT FAR LEFTIST , ANTI AMERICANS , FOREIGNERS, BLACKS AND ACORN HAVE MADE THIS IMPOSSIBLE TO VOTE FAIRLY ..THIS WAS THEIR OBVIOUS PLAN ALL ALONG OBVIOUSLY .
WHY DO THEY HAVE TO GO SIGN UP POOR BLACKS AND GET PAID ?
FUNNY THEY DON’T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS GETTING ,WIC MONEY , FOOD STAMPS , MILK MONEY , FREE HEALTH CARE , GOVT WELFARE CHECKS , SUBSIDIZED “”EVERYTHING” ON THEIR OWN .
TOO MANY DIED FOR AMERICA TO END UP VOTING THE WAY THEY DO EVEN NOW IN RUSSIA .
mccain can be said to be criminal enterprise, he violated code of conduct, she stole, was drug addict, supporting bank freaud – Lincoln savings etc etc
You think you are in hell?
“tell them the truth and they think they are in hell” said Truman a democrat
lady kenw you? the 3 judges didnt !!!
63 illegal votes?
you are so funny
what a DA says is not FACT,
thats why we have jury system IN the constitition
People who receive welfare should not be able to vote. It is that simple. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about ACORN. They only seem to worry about the “poor”. I totally agree with “ReConUSMC” if they can get WIC, food stamps and other things I think they could handle voter registration cards.
To buddy larsen: The reason why DOJ lawyers and staff are in general pulling for Obama is because they are absolutely fed up with the way their agency has been run the past several years under Bush, from stupid, incompetent bosses to surrealy idiotic hiring rules (most especially the “anti-elitist” one where top students from top colleges were passed over because of their potential free-thinking, wanting to make the world a better place, progressive mindsets).
And don’t see any real chance of improvement with McCain because of the politics involved in purging people with Republican ties, regardless of how incompetent they have shown themselves to be.
bobc:
Are you off your meds? Oh, and Harry Truman would be voting for the Democrat this time. He would be voting for McCain against the Red. Truman hated Communists.
Word is getting out, I think, about ACORN/Obama/Ayers, etc.
AP reporting Obama 42%/McCain 42% — latest poll. It’s at “ace.mu.nu.”
correction: Obama 43%
jeez-FITZGERALD CREATED A PHONY CASE AGAINST LIBBY. HERE ,HANDED MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE ,CANT SEEM TO FIND THE NUTS TO GO AFTER THE CORRUPT RACIST AMERICAN HATING ACORN GROUP. ACORN HAS MUCH IN COMMON WITH ISLAMIC SUPREMACISTS.
Ooo, I love the idea of not letting welfare recipients vote. Will never happen, of course, but it’s a nice thought.
Why is it, exactly, that I have to show ID to buy my kid cough syrup, but not to vote for president? We literally require no proof whatsoever that a person is who they say they are, to vote. It’s absurd. When I went to vote last time, I was told I’d already voted. Which was news to me, but there was nothing I could do. And of course they couldn’t tell me who I voted for. I am just aching for Mccain to win. I don’t know what I’ll do it he doesn’t. Cash my Obama checks and batten down the hatches, I guess.
What I find most frustrating is our fellow citizens seem not at all bothered by electing a man who seems untroubled by illegal activity.
Are they not thinking how this affects our children? What kind of role model would he be? We already know the damage another morally-challenged president inflicted on our younger ones. This one would be devastating.
How has his leadership changed Chicago? Has he affected it – the young people there – for the better? Not at all with his ‘community organizing – agitating’ and ACORN work. Instead he’s been involved in activities that produce a worse kind of person.
Leaders should have the highest standards, impeccable character and judgment. I know we’re choosing from among a not-so-great lot to begin with, but there is one who is head and shoulders above the other in this regard.
Wake up, America.
The best use of RICCO would be to go after the entire Obama campaign finance organization. It is financial fraud at the highest level. The Hsu donation practice for the Clintons was just the tip of the iceberg.
The DoJ career employee support of Obama is, of course, reflected in decisions about what to prosecute or investigate, and they know that it would be a career limiter to even suggest the idea. Obama appoints Holder as AG, he will quickly purge out any DoJ prosecutors who filed cases antithetical to The Vacuous Garment’s electoral interests, with the same respect for the law as the goon squad has for free specch (demonstrated by the legal threats and letters from Obama’s minions trying to suppress free speech thus far).
Therefore, nothing will happen to address this criminal behavior by ACORN unless media investigations, after the election is safely over and The One safely in office, make it impossible to ignore egregious fraud.
Therefore, the civil suit- which will drag on forever unless ACORN succeeds in getting the right judge assigned who will dismiss the suit- is the one route to at least getting into discovery mode to reveal the extent of the criminality. Another route might be to seek a writ of mandamus to force the AG to enforce election law.
None of this will happen in time to save us from the New Party’s candidate, though.
Starting at the article, and continuing through the comments:
The reason that the feds are not going after Acorn, etc, is very simple: neither party wants to turn over that rock. Although the vast majority of the voter fraud occuring in this country is being done by big-city Democratic machines, there’s plenty of Republican malfeasance out in the boonies, where county courthouses are dens of (nominally Republican) backscratchers. Most voter fraud isn’t aimed at the presidency, it’s aimed at the local offices. Get the tumbrels rolling, and who knows who’s going to meet Madame Guillotine next.
#3 ex-fetus
Forget getting Ob on a technicality. It doesn’t matter WHERE his birth certificate is from, as long as it shows his mother’s full name. Citizenship is automatic for anyone with one US citizen as a parent.
#4 Tim McGuire
It would be easier with that level of smoking gun, but remember the aphorism about suing anyboy and a great country. With good enough lawyers (and enough money) the concept is certainly in play.
#8 Robert Hurley
I don’t want to deny anyone their right to vote. I want to deny organizations the “right” to cajole, bribe and intimidate people with no civic knowledge and little interest into the voting booth, where their vote will be just as valuable as the voter who has paid attention to the issues and really cares enough to do it on their own.
#18 David N.
False registrations can easily be converted into fraudent votes. Someone can easily vote under their own name, drive acress town and vote as the falsely registered “John Smith”. When was the last time you were asked for picture ID when you voted? I never have, and the Democratic party is fighting tooth and nail to keep that from even being an option.
81.BC
“top students from top colleges were passed over because of their potential free-thinking, wanting to make the world a better place, progressive mindsets”
Translation: Figured out that the “top college” ratings were fixed like the 5th at Pimlico, and that loading up the DOJ with students from schools that subjected their students to years of hard-left brainwashing wasn’t a good idea, since most new graduates have no idea of what a better place is, nor how much it costs.
Your headline should be:
WHY THE FEDS ARE NOT USING RICO AGAINST “ACORN”…..
Then finish out that thought: Uberlefties will not allow it!
To bud: No. Top colleges as in the likes of MIT, Harvard, and such. At a recent wedding I chatted up a young women such places with more degrees than a hick has 6-packs. She’s in the federal government out of a sense of service, and she was the one who told me about the anti-elitism thing. And she and many others, the ones you really want to be in government, are very much rooting for Obama to win.
You guys have no friggin clue what a mess the government is in thanks to Bush (and to a lesser extent the GOP *AND* less than resilient Democrats), and how lucky we’re been so far that there hasn’t more disasters, natural and manmade.
If McCain gets in, the status quo basically remains at the very best, and we are going to be so screwed the next time something really big and really bad happens. And forget about any sort of more mundane reforms in things like healthcare and energy — you’ll have to look to the 2012 elections for that. Another 4 years down the drain….
I think the reason the FBI and DoJ aren’t pursuing RICO prosecutions has to do with the fact that they can’t prove a criminal conspiracy. ACORN’s position — that they provided authorities with ballots they suspected to be fraudulent, in accordance with the law — is as credible as any of the accusations being leveled against it. I seriously doubt the Bush admin’s DoJ isn’t interested in going after these guys — I just don’t think they have any evidence to back up a RICO prosecution. And if they used RICO to go after all of ACORN because of the actions of certain ACORN employees, they would set a dangerous precedent.
Think about it — let’s say a couple of low-level GOP operatives are caught stuffing ballots in Florida. If you prosecute under RICO, the entire GOP would be criminalized, as would belonging to it. Be careful what you wish for.
dlt – good post
bye
It is amazing the laws that are ignored.
Just as Obama ignored the lawsuit filed in Hawaii – Sept. 15 – to order him to produce a valid Birth Certificate.
He had 30 days to respond. He let that date pass. Will the courts now open the sealed birth records?
Probably we won’t know before the election whether or not he’s an eligible candidate.
I don’t trust this retired lawyer if she’s so sloppy…the name of the bill is: Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.
So, it is,morningsider. Thanks for catching my mistake.
This is all part-and-parcel of the Democratic game plan that’s been underway since, well, the last election cycle. Many on the left have convinced themselves that W “stole” the last two elections, by hacked voting machines, by Diebold machines deliberately flipping votes and/or underreporting them, by suppression of minority votes, organized stealing/shredding ballots, etc, etc.
While it may seem harmless, it’s been obvious (to me, anyway), that these conspiracy theorists have used this to justify their own “make up the vote” campaign over the last couple of years – especially in Ohio, and Florida – it’s only fair, they say, considering the “theft” of the last two elections. (I have family members who are part of the fascist-left, move-on/Daily Kos crowd, so I’ve heard plenty on the subject from them.)
As far as ACORN goes, save the patronizing attitudes, you know we all get that phony registrations aren’t the same as phony votes. But that’s a bit like saying you’re not guilty of burglary, because you only broke into the house, but haven’t stolen anything yet.
The question is, how many of those phony registrations will actually attempt to vote? 0? 100,000?
If I wanted to, I’d have little difficulty in voting 20 or 30 times in the next election. This, of course, would require me to register 20 or 30 times first. Multiply “me” by 5,000 other people in my state, I think we could swing an election.
In any event, ACORN acts as a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democratic party, and should *not* receive taxpayer funding, and given their demonstrated ineffectiveness and corruption, shouldn’t be allowed to register anyone. I guarantee you that their registration efforts are completely partisan in nature and focus, and spends 100% of their time attempting to register likely Democratic voters; you’re simply not going to find them doing registrations at, say, a military base.
If it’s determined that there’s an organized conspiracy among *any* group to dilute legitimate votes, by false votes, paid-for votes, ineligible votes, or deliberately miscounting votes, then if RICO doesn’t apply, then Civil Rights laws should — on the order of 300 million counts of Conspiring to Violate Civil Rights, one count per citizen.
Start convicting people on charges like *that*, with similarly terrifying prison sentences / fines, I think we’ll get this in order quickly.
Why Aren’t the Feds Using RICO to Go After ACORN? Ummm…because they can’t, at least not with what you are alleging. I’m not exactly sure what it is that you think makes a RICO case, but this doesn’t come close. First of all it’s all the same basic felony here, allegations of election fraud. Trying to make the peripheral stuff separate felonies is a stretch. This just doesn’t fall under the design of racketeering charges. You’re losing sight of the fact that RICO was created to go after vast organizations considered to be ‘continuing criminal enterprises.’ I know that you think ACORN qualifies, I realize that you think they fit the bill of organized crime, but the Feds aren’t going to waste their time with such mickey mouse crap like this. They simply aren’t as big or as important as you seem to think they are. Even if the peripheral (methods of achieving the alleged election frauds, again it really would be a stretch to consider these felonies separate from violations of federal election statutes) stuff could be considered separate predicate acts, ACORN just doesn’t rise to the level of importance reserved for RICO. A bunch of workers filled out obviously bogus forms for pay. It seems hard to believe that most of this was an actual full scale attempt to rig an election.
I know I would have people screaming at me for saying this but consider: 1. if a person is registered 72 times they can still only vote once. 2. if a ten year old registers they won’t be able to vote unless a fake ID was made and if they were going to do that why would they register the ten year old to begin with rather than just use a fake name? 3. If Donald Duck registers Donald Duck would have to show up and vote. Now what poll worker is going let someone claiming to be Donald Duck vote? In most of these cases I tend to believe that it was either pranks or workers looking for extra salary bonuses simply because I doubt any organization would be stupid enough to think any of these tactics would somehow be rationally capable of being turned into spurious votes. I will say that I firmly believe ACORN left themselves open to this outcome and they purposefully ignored their internal vulnerabilities and did little to nothing to safeguard against such risks.
My only point with all of that was not to create a huge argument but to simply point out that no matter how much you all hate ACORN the Feds simply aren’t looking at them as the big threat you think they are. This case just isn’t what RICO is used for. Beyond that, the irony is that you truly fail to grasp what you are arguing for. You want these people punished, immediately, swift absolute justice and I am guessing you want the ball rolling in the next few days to perhaps influence the election. Well RICO would definitely be the wrong way to go to achieve those ends. Do you have any idea how long it takes to build a successful RICO case? First of all it takes a long, long, painfully long time to piece together a case. We are talking about a very complex and excruciatingly detailed legal process, far more so than normal. And that’s just to build the case because the second problem is that you are talking about federal prosecution. You don’t even want to know how long it can sometimes take to get a case into and through the federal courts. Let’s put it this way, if they began a RICO case right now on ACORN, they might get to verdict just before Obama started the last year…of his second term.
because there is NO evidence
same as no evidence Ayers bombed anything.
RICO… that’s usually done towards or used to shake down organized crime. Usually Mafia or affiliation to Organized crime. Individuals who muscle money from business owners in return they provide “protection”. Goodness, you guys come up with anything? R.I.C.C.O? That’s actually funny. I am curious to know the actually Racketeering that took place? The actual accusation is forgery? R.I.C.C.O has no cohesion to forgery. Forgery is almost like identity theft.
That’s like saying ACORN is a Mafia family. They took the Omerta…to register people to vote. LOL!!!
Really funny stuff, actually entertaining. Let’s let this one go, it’s practically silly.
That’s like saying Let’s get R.I.C.C.O charges on Disney. It’s led by Mickey the Mouse, and the Capo is Donald the Duck. Mickey has a lovely Goumada name Minnie the Mouse. Don’t forget the Enforcer Goofy.
It’s silly.