Who Will Raise Octuplet Mom’s Kids? The Taxpayers!
Last month when the story broke about a California mother who’d given birth to eight babies, all of whom survived, the world seemed just a little happier for the news. But, as with so many seemingly upbeat stories these days, the news quickly turned from charming to alarming.
This was, we learned, no miracle birth. Nadya Doud Suleman’s octuplets were conceived via in vitro fertility treatments (IVF), a procedure during which doctors implant numerous embryos with the knowledge that they are not all likely to survive. Upon implantation, the medical providers and parents typically work together to “selectively terminate” (read: abort) one or more embryos to increase the viability of the rest.
Suleman had six embryos implanted and chose not to terminate any. One of those embryos divided into twins in utero, so her delivery room staff of 46 was not surprised to find themselves delivering seven babies. The extra baby — another twin — did, however, come as a shock to everyone involved including Suleman.
Soon we found out these eight newborn babies weren’t even Suleman’s first kids — not by a long shot. Although IVF is typically used to treat infertility, Suleman already had six kids and her doctor knew that. (The doctor — who also handled Suleman’s IVF for her previous children — is currently being investigated by the California Medical Board.) To add to that common thread, Suleman’s 14 children were all conceived using sperm from the same donor, whom Suleman says is a friend.
In the span of one news cycle, Nadya Suleman’s public image went from that of a brave young mother to a symbol of self-indulgent parenting who had intentionally given birth to all 14 children as a single parent. Although previously married, Suleman’s husband had filed for divorce in May 2006. His petition, which cites “irreconcilable differences” as grounds, claims the couple did not have any children together, yet Suleman’s previous IVF treatments led to the birth of six children prior to their divorce. He also asked not to pay spousal support and, after Suleman did not respond, his request was granted by default.
This disclosure only raised more questions. All of Suleman’s first six children were born before her divorce was final. Why didn’t she seek child support for them? Was she so financially independent that she did not need even spousal support to continue raising so many kids?
The answers led to the discovery of even more disturbing facts. For instance, at the time of the octuplets’ birth, Suleman was unemployed and living in her parents’ basement with her six other children. But at one point she did have money — $168,000 of it received between 2000 and 2008, as a matter of fact. The source of those funds? Two worker’s compensation claims filed after she was hurt during a riot at the psychiatric facility where she worked as an aide in 1999. Yet her claimed disabling back injury did not prevent her from conceiving via IVF and having five separate pregnancies.
There has to be some question,” says CBS News Legal Analyst Trent Copeland, “about whether or not a woman who’s disabled and collecting over $150,000 worth of disability payments is really authorized to receive those payments if she’s too disabled to work, but not too disabled to have at least a half-dozen children.
While some pointed to Suleman as the stereotypical welfare mother, churning out babies to stay on the dole, others began questioning her mental stability. Indeed, there’s plenty of evidence to believe Nadya Suleman is in serious need of long-term, intense psychiatric help.
Angie Suleman, speaking of her 30-something daughter’s numerous children, says that Nadya has always been obsessed with having children, starting as early as her teens.
Well, we can have a pool, keeping in mind what Ann Coulter said about single-mothers: How many of these 14 kids will grow up to be criminals? I’m going with 9. No, wait, a few of these octuplets may not survive. I’m going with 2 dead and 8 criminals.
It makes me so sad to think of all of those innocent children who will suffer for their mother’s selfish actions. She cannot possibly give each of those little babies the love and attention they need all by herself. It angers me that she did this, but I do hope friends and neighbors step in to help her out because it’s not the kids’ fault they’re in this bind.
She should be forcibly committed. Once her exact illness is pinned down, the kids should be legally separated from her, and made available for adoption by regular parents, possibly keeping as many together as the adoptive parents can handle. No further contact allowed.
This woman is a lunatic. That is quite clear.
The sum you quote for bringing up a kid is only applicable to the middle class, working class people spend a lot less on their kids — most don’t even earn as much as you’ve quoted after tax in 10 years time!
I can see you have a few valid points, but the entire story is steeped into envy and disgust for the woman by a baying mob, in an ungood cartoonish way, and it contains more platitudes than I care to read as well. And part of me thinks that if she was not a Caucasian, this would not be an issue at all either…
It would be far easier to engage with the issue if it wasn’t pursued as the witchhunt de jour and international hatefest — Pajamas is going MSM here.
Who’s going to pay for the octuplets’ upbringing….? I nominate the team of doctors that carried out the IVF!
3 dead, 9 criminals and 2 grow up to be Democratic Congressmen.
3 dead, 9 criminals, and 2 grow up to be Democratic U.S. Congressmen
I hate to sound heartless, but these children (all 14 of them), for their own good, need to be removed from that family and placed for adoption in good, loving homes. And then that woman’s mental health issues need to be cared for, because she is evidently not firing on all cylinders.
And to RightwingHippyChick @ #5, this woman is NOT Caucasian. She is of Arab and/or Middle eastern origin. So how does race have anything to do with this?
Excellent article on the Fox site about the bills piling up at this woman’s feet;
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,490269,00.html
#7 DaveinPhoenix
So what you are saying is: 11 criminals.
“And to RightwingHippyChick @ #5, this woman is NOT Caucasian. She is of Arab and/or Middle eastern origin. So how does race have anything to do with this?”
Well, 10+ kids in ethnic minority families is not such an uncommon occurance and no-one ever bats an eyelid at this, or asks about the cost to the taxpayer — it would not be PC.
But when a white women has too many kids (or her peers think so), it’s open season on her — more than 2 kids and you’re killing the planet, more than 5 and you’re a rabbity sponger… etc, and that is before we mention the people who spout that her kids would be better off not born (which is the same thing as dead, just without the experience).
This probably stems from the latent racist expectation that brown women doesn’t need or want a modern feminist life, whereas western women have to have one, whether they want it or not.
I’m in the UK, where the people who are getting racist abuse are so called ‘chavs’ — they are the offical ‘niggers’ of the white working class. ‘Chav’ is the only legal racist abuse we have in the UK, and ‘Chav’ mothers are public enemy Nr.1, because they serially produce feckless criminals(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1139886/Single-mothers-created-generation-uber-chavs-costing-taxpayer-fortune-claims-deputy-head.html)
So pardon me if I’m a bit suspicious about fake-moralist and racist motivation by social services and the media in general.
whether this woman is Islamic or not, she certainly seems to have the Islamic mindset: let the dhimmis support you, and pay you jizya.
I agree with you all. I don’t think I am being mean,but put them up for adoption. These children deserve a chance. Maybe the clinic that helped her have all these kids should pay. When I first heard the woman speak I said to myself,this woman has mental problems,she is not playing with a full deck.The clinic that perpetrated this fraud on the people of California should have to pay.
Hippychick, what’s your opinion of this story? Children are abused, aborted, neglected all the time in today’s society, yet, when anybody dares question this woman’s decision, it’s “AW, SHUT-UP! YOU’RE JUST JEALOUS! STOP BEING SO MEAN TO HER!” Knowing that our society doesn’t value kids, I wonder what the reason is behind this: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,488644,00.html
I like these 2 observations:
1. Two worker’s compensation claims filed after she was hurt during a riot at the psychiatric facility where she worked as an aide in 1999.
2. Indeed, there’s plenty of evidence to believe Nadya Suleman is in serious need of long-term, intense psychiatric help.
So then it begs the question…are we sure she was ‘an aide’ or was she ‘a patient’?
Rightwinghippychick, ethnic minorities (of which she is one, by the way) do NOT use IVF to get their families! And I’m sure everyone on this site is against any large family that the taxpayers foot the bill for. Other large families got that way either by accident (large natural birth) or pay their own way.
She is mentally unstable, and can not possibly care in any way for those children. They do need to be removed for their own good. I have 4 kids. I am not on welfare and would never intentionally conceive a child I could not support. Doing so is irresponsible at best. I am not against large families, I am against taxpayers paying for them. I actually think several siblings are better for growing up healthy and wellrounded than one or none.
I agree that price tag to raising kids is not true to life. However, in tis case it’s very low. Preemies need massive amounts of expensive care. They very frequently have ongoing problems. No that she’ll be paying any of it……
#12; RWHC:
“This probably stems from the latent racist expectation that brown women doesn’t need or want a modern feminist life, whereas western women have to have one, whether they want it or not.”
I see your point. Over this side of The Water, it was termed the “Soft Racism of Lowered Expectations”…(it’s become a protected industry in the last 40 years or so).
“I’m in the UK, where the people who are getting racist abuse are so called ‘chavs’ — they are the offical ‘niggers’ of the white working class. ‘Chav’ is the only legal racist abuse we have in the UK, and ‘Chav’ mothers are public enemy Nr.1, because they serially produce feckless criminals”
The perils, both to himself and to society, of a child born into Bastardy are well-known and irrefutable.
“Well, 10+ kids in ethnic minority families is not such an uncommon occurance and no-one ever bats an eyelid at this, or asks about the cost to the taxpayer — it would not be PC.”
Yes, large families are pretty much par for the course in people whose cultures were agrarian and who may disapprove of birth control.
What makes this news, though, is that this woman had her enormous brood all at once.
And used a state-subsidized turkey-baster to accomplish the deed.
Peter the Bubblehead:
Arabs are primarily Cacausian. Just like Hispanic, Arab is an ethnicity not a race. Of course, race is argued to not really be applicable to human beings as some contend that there is only one race – the human race.
momof3, yes, actual ethnic/minority groups, usually actually get married, before they produce large families. And most of the one I’ve met have been hard-working, responsible people. And, even if they wanted expensive, in vitrio treatments, they wouldn’t be likely to get them (these people have a hard enough time getting ordinary medical treatment).
1. Nadya Suleman definitely has psychological problems.
2. She has no way of supporting her 14 kids.
3. Even if kind strangers do give her handouts, they can’t provide one of the most important things kids need, which is a dad!
All this—and more—make this an extremely troubling case.
And, really, considering how little our society values children, or traditional families, I’m frankly amazed at the continued championship of this woman and her “courage”, starting with the doctor who thought it was a good idea to implant her with all these embryos, to Kaiser caring for her (and Kaiser is not a caring place), to the PR people who are putting her before the public as this wonderful, lovable person, and so on, and so on. . .
WHO CARES WHAT RACE SHE IS???? This woman is a lunatic! 14 kids as a single parent with no job? My guess is that we’ll be footing the bill, community helpers will come in and help parent the them until the kids are school age and shortly thereafter we’ll be treated to a People cover with her surrounded by her brood basking in the glow of motherhood. What a trainwreck.
More state aid can support her needs and her children’s. California is the perfect breeding ground for this insanity. She needs a evaluation and so do her doctors.
12. RightwingHippyChick wrote:
Well, 10+ kids in ethnic minority families is not such an uncommon occurance and no-one ever bats an eyelid at this, or asks about the cost to the taxpayer — it would not be PC
Peter writes: Given the circumstances, I wouldn’t care if this woman were white, black, yellow, or purple with blue pinstripes. She has 14 kids and fully expects the taxpayers to pay for them all. I would not agree that anyone, no matter what their ethnic background, should expect this.
Hey, if you’re related to Bill Gates and have 20 billion dollars in the bank, go for it, have all the kids you want (that you can reasonably afford.) But if you’re a welfare mom, don’t be asking me to work harder to pay higher taxes to support the 14 rugrats you created through artificial insemination with no husband (or even boyfriend) in the picture.
Another disturbing thing: she describes her childhood as “dysfunctional”, yet she continues to live with her mom and dad, the parents who were, presumably, responsible for her own dysfunctional childhood. This doesn’t say much for her care of her kids (though it looks as if grandma’s calling it quits, and grandad’s heading back to Iraq).
19. Nicole wrote:
Arabs are primarily Cacausian. Just like Hispanic, Arab is an ethnicity not a race. Of course, race is argued to not really be applicable to human beings as some contend that there is only one race – the human race.
Peter writes: I concede the point. Ethnicity was the term I was going for, but being it was early in the morning, my brain was not on full functionality and I defaulted to the term race. Thank you for the correction.
I don’t believe she’s on welfare. But it’s her uterus and she can do with it what she likes. It costs Canadian taxpayers $100,000,000 ever year to abort babies (as per StatsCan: $1000 per abortion, almost 100,000 abortions per year). I’d rather pay for the future workers to pay into the social system.
There are many things that “the system” pays for… like people who get fat (I don’t know how those extra pounds happened!) and eventually become ill. That is a massive drain on society but no one wants to stand up and say “hey, if you’re fat, we aren’t going to support you because it’s your own darn fault”. Or smoking… or excessive drinking….
There are a number of separate issues here…
1) It doesn’t matter if you aquire your private football team with IVF, marrying, adoption, fostering or personal effort. Genetics don’t change a thing here, those kids are just kids. 14 kids might work out, it may not, and it depends on the individuals and also on the attitude of the world around them. It’s very hard to start good if everyone has decided you’re mad and bad and that you will be an utter failure.
2) The lady hasn’t abused her kids yet and probably never will, all she is guilty of is using IVF and not bothering with a father. You can debate those issues separately (if you must), but it ain’t no hanging offense and it does not make her a bad person or a child abuser.
3) I see, there is a new mental health condition called ‘wants to be a mother’? Even so, assuming for one moment that such a mental illness exists (sounds like a feminist invention btw
, so what if she is a little mad, Florence Nightingale also was and it did not stop her from being compassionate and competent.
4) Adopt or not — before you discuss the possibility and desirability of legalized child theft, maybe you should consider that it’s a human being we’re discussing — a mother who loves her kids and who wanted them (even if it was a lowly turkey baster that fathered them), not a cat queen that littered in the local shelter.
And the kids also may like to grow up together and with their mom, even if they are going to be poor, money never makes up for losing your real family, and taking kids from people because they are poor is also no longer the way things are done. (they might take them if there is an adoption quota to fill, but eh, that’s another issue and motivation alltogether)
I’m not saying that any of the points raised are not valid or should not be discussed, but I don’t think that it should be done in form of a baying mob harassing a new family in this obsessed, vitriolic way. They are going to have enough problems without being hated and despised universally…
Best thing is to drop it for now, then pick it up at some point in a more neutral fashion — pilloring random, normal people this way is just barbaric and detracts from the topic.
Fox News is reporting that she is on welfare, and that three of the original six children are disabled.
27. Heather Cook wrote:
I’d rather pay for the future workers to pay into the social system.
Peter writes: The problem being, Heather, is how many of these 14 kids ARE going to grow up to become future workers? All kidding from the earlier posts aside predicting the number of criminals, you already have, of her first 6 kids, 2 or 3 (depending on the reports you read/hear) who are disabled and receiving public assistance, something that will likely not change for the rest of their lives. Then of the 8 recent births, you have to expect, given the circumstances, odds are likely at least half of them are likewise going to be disabled/need assistance for the rest of their lives. Of the ones that are left, how many of them are going to get the full care they need to become full, productive members of modern society? If left to live with their mother and her parents (assuming they don’t go running away like ‘grandma’ is already threatening), what is the chance any of these kids will grow up getting everything, physically and emotionally, they need?
28. RightwingHippyChick wrote:
2) The lady hasn’t abused her kids yet and probably never will
Peter asks: You don’t consider 18 people living in a small two bedroom house to be abuse of any sort? Think of the lack of privacy. The constant need for care that will cause frustration, mental issues, anger issues. The abject poverty of 18 people living on the salery of one person, who by all reports will not even be there to contribute to the care of these kids as he tries to earm money in an overseas job. This doesn’t sound like abuse to you?
3) I see, there is a new mental health condition called ‘wants to be a mother’? Even so, assuming for one moment that such a mental illness exists (sounds like a feminist invention btw
, so what if she is a little mad, Florence Nightingale also was and it did not stop her from being compassionate and competent.
Peter asks: Florence Nightengale has 14 kids within 8 years without a father present?
4) Adopt or not — before you discuss the possibility and desirability of legalized child theft, maybe you should consider that it’s a human being we’re discussing — a mother who loves her kids and who wanted them (even if it was a lowly turkey baster that fathered them), not a cat queen that littered in the local shelter.
Peter responds: So you’re telling me, just because I wanted them and loved them, you would have no problem with me taking in 200 cats in a 1 bedroom apartment, even if I had no income and no one else to help care for them.
If these were kittens, there would be animal rights grouos screaming at the tops of their lungs that this woman needs to be put in jail. PETA would be crying that she should be executed for her cruelty. But because these are her biological kids (albeit conceived artificially), then she has ever right to keep and raise them, even if she has no money, a hovel to live in and no visible means of support? Just because these are human kids and not puppies or kittens?
Is this a skewed double standard or what?
How about having the doctor who implanted these embryos support them? And pay for their medical care in hospital?
“And the kids also may like to grow up together and with their mom, even if they are going to be poor, money never makes up for losing your real family, and taking kids from people because they are poor is also no longer the way things are done.”
Peter writes: I’ve known numerous adoptees who were more than content knowing they were raised in a REAL, loving home (though they may not have been biologically related) rather than being raised by biological parents who were either incapable of supporting them, did not want them, or physically/mentally abused them.
What are you, RightwingHippyChick, going to say a year from now if/when this woman announces, “I’m still not happy. I want another half dozen kids.” When are you going to say enough is enough? Are you going to tell her, “Well, okay, but just one more.” Are you going to say she has the right to give birth to litter after litter after litter just because she feels unfulfilled, the whole kit and kaboodle paid for by your taxes which continue to rise to the point where you can’t afford to support your own family? Is that what you are advocating?
All I can think about is changing diapers, feeding, bathing and cleaning for those little specks of humanity. I don’t see any time for hugging, holding, giggling, coloring, one on one time for each little individual.
The disabiity issue is frighting. Not just the expense but the pain, angst and learning difficulties of each of the children. How can anyone manage on thier own?
The IV issue is done. Now the all energy must be focused on the welfare of the children. The mother’s welfare is no concern to me.
By the way, can you imagine 14 teenagers in the house at once? Scary!
Peter has a point, Heather; how many of these kids are going to grow up to become productive members of society, given that they’re lacking the one thing that seems to make the biggest difference in preventing a kid becoming a criminal—a father? So, there’s some abuse right away; she didn’t care enough to give these kids a stable, two-parent home. She also didn’t care enough about them to ensure she had money for their upkeep, and a large enough home to raise them in. Also, while she whines about her own dysfunctional childhood, she’s handed them over to the care of her parents—the very same people who, presumably, made her own childhood unhappy.
At best, that’s incredible negligence, and, at worst—yeah, it sounds like abuse.
I do love it, by the way, when people such HippyChick suddenly get all mushy and misty-eyed about the wonder of moms and families. We have how many abortions each year? Kids growing up to join gangs? Parents scolded for harming the planet if they have more than two kids? (Or any kids at all?) Babies born alive during abortions, tossed into the trash? And yet this nutty broad shows up with 14 kids, no husband, no way of supporting them, and it’s “Awwwwwww, CUUUUUUUUUTE! It’s her uterus, she can do what she wants with it!” Well she can—as long as she’s not asking me to foot the bill, and adding her own list of entitlements to that already loading down the overburdened American taxpayer. Yeah, Heather, I’m aware that our nation pays for a lot of things, such as foreign aid to places like Jordan and Egypt, supporting the Palestinian authority, overseas abortions, the NEA and many other things, the value of which can be reasonably questioned.
(By the way, Peter, speaking of double standards, check out my link in Post #15).
And, HippyChick, Peter has a point; what are you going to say if, a few years from now, this woman wants to have another 6,8,10,20 children, because she still feels lonely and empty? What if she decides that the kids aren’t making her happy after all, so she wants to change her sex and become a man—or take up sky diving—or move to another state? Or go back to school for another 10 years? How much are we supposed to invest in making this woman’s happiness? Don’t some other needy people, such as the old, the disabled, abused kids deserve to be happy too?
Yes, it’s her uterus. And it’s our money. And it’s our society that will be damaged if her neglected, unhappy, fatherless children grow up to wreak havoc in it. We won’t tell her what to do, if she doesn’t tell us what to do—i.e., support her unhealthy lifestyle, so she can find happiness (and, of course, it won’t make her happy anyway).
To some extent, it seems like she’s abusing the very parents she’s trashing on national TV. Her mother seems to have been more than patient with taking care of the original six, and her poor dad has to go to Iraq (hardly a safe environment) to raise money for this group.
And Peter, have you noticed it’s all about HER? HER uterus, HER happiness, HER children! Society and her kids be damned, it’s all about HER, and HER happiness, and what SHE wants. Those 14 kids come in a poor second. She’s the princess, and SHE must have what SHE wants, when SHE wants it!
19. Nicole wrote:
Arabs are primarily Cacausian. Just like Hispanic, Arab is an ethnicity not a race. Of course, race is argued to not really be applicable to human beings as some contend that there is only one race – the human race.
If we were to treat humans the exact same we we treat every single other living genus on this planet, “Homo Sapien Sapien” would be a genus and the different ethnicities would be different species and subspecies.
They’re not his children. Why the hell should he have to pay for them?
Maybe you should consider that what she did is something that no civilization would confuse for a loving mother, except modern “anything goes, judge no one’s decisions” America. What she did was extremely unnatural. If she repeated this a few more times, she would be looking at having 40 kids by the time she’s 40. Unacceptable. Someone needs to slap this woman upside the head and tell her it’s a womb, not a clown car.
38. TalkinKamel wrote:
(By the way, Peter, speaking of double standards, check out my link in Post #15).
Peter replies: Yes, TalkinKamel, I saw that story when it was first posted the other day, and it disgusted me. Why the people involved with that have not already been charged with murder is beyond me.
“But we will foot the bill”
Oh yes. We ae footing it already. Do you have the first idea what it costs for the neo-natal intensive care?
MILLIONS!
I think the IVF doctor should have to pay support for those kids.
I think the blame should go just on the doctor. He already gave her 7 children. He was in it just for the money.
She has a mental problem, “Needed to be a mother far beyond her means.” She is excusable not the doctor.
Florence Nightingale may have been a bit cuckoo, but she did manage to accomplish things, and she wasn’t crazy enough to give birth to kids she couldn’t take of, with no father around (she probably would have bitten your head off, if you’d even suggested that!)
Nadya Suleman is a professional student, who’se main source of income appears to be living off medical disability claims, and the kindness of strangers. She’s hoping to make the big bucks off a book, and maybe a T.V. show, but that’s not going to be enough, not for 14 kids.
By the way, who is this mysterious “David Solomon” who was listed as the babies’ father?
Peter the Bubblehead – A clue.
Arabs are Caucasians. So are Iranians. So are Pakis and Indians and Jews and Bengalis and Afghans and Khazaks.
****************
HippieChick – HER happiness. HER choice. HER Uterus.
OUR money. OUR money. OUR money.
Of the 6 by the same sperm donor friend, 3 are disabled. Including one autistic, at least.
Not so good odds on the other 8 being OK. Even more burden on the remaining 40% of Californian families who are taxpayers paying for the other 60% being parasites and now feverishly contemplating bailing themselves and their businesses out to Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Texas, NC, Florida, and Georgia.
********************
A report last night said all 14 came courtesy of a Beverley Hills fertility clinic. And rumors that disabled, on welfare Suleman also got expensive plastic surgery in Beverley Hills as well persist.
*********************
I honestly think she could make several million on a book. But not on the “blessed 8 babies”
“How to Get 5 Million from Other People and Drive Your Parents into Bankruptcy For Your Happiness. Tips and Tricks How You Too Can Do It!!” by Nadya Suleman.
since when does paying alimony/child support equating with raising? change your exaggerated headline.
47. Casandra Kumsung wrote:
I think the blame should go just on the doctor. He already gave her 7 children. He was in it just for the money.
Peter writes: That’s a question I’m still waiting to hear an answer for. Where did the money for all these procedures come from? It can’t all have come from her (appearing more and more bogus) disability claims, could it?
Feeding a baby, whether by breast or bottle, takes at least 30 minutes. Babies of normal weight (7 to 8 pounds) need to be fed every 4 hours. To feed 8 babies one feeding each takes a total of 4 hours. As soon as the last of the eight are fed, then the first one has to be fed again. What this means is that the mother is up nonstop just feeding babies. No time for diaper changes, no time for bathing babies.
The mother is up 24 hours a day, just feeding the babies. The mother never sleeps, never eats, never has even a minute of time for the other 6 children. Obviously other questions, such as reproductive rights, cultural differences, etc., are all irrelevant to the basic question of whether or not the basic situation makes any sense.
48. TalkinKamel wrote:
By the way, who is this mysterious “David Solomon” who was listed as the babies’ father?
Peter writes: Depending on who you are interviewing, Solomon is either ‘a friend’ (according to Suleman), a boyfriend who asked her to marry him and she said no (according to grandma) or simply the same person who donated sperm for each kid, even when she was still married to someone else (according to the clinic).
Which means that nobody actually knows who the guy is, not with all these different versions of who he is in circulation.
Peter, the reason those people haven’t been charged with murder in that case I linked to is that there’s a definite double-standard in this country about which kids are worthy of protection and attention, and which aren’t.
And the octuplets will drop out of sight, once they’re no longer the hot story of the day, and no longer amusing.
We have two questions here:
1. Who, exactly, is David Solomon, and. . .
2. Who paid for the IV treatments, especially provided by a posh Beverly Hills clinic?
It actually sounds as if the grandmother is doing all the heavy lifting on the child care, which brings up another question: if Nadya Suleman had these kids because of her deep love of children, why isn’t she the one handling most of the child care? She supposedly had those kids because of her deep need for them—well, she has them, why isn’t she with them? Why let her mom care for them?
Like TalkinKamel, I’m really curious about this David Solomon guy. I notice she gave them all his last name. I’m not sure about this, but David Solomon sounds like a Jewish name to me, which (to me), makes this whole thing more mysterious. I know I’m talking cultural sterptypes here, but most of my friends are Jewish, and they tend to be incredibly responsible. What gives with this guy?
Quiverful anyone? The fundamentalist evangelicals have a new leader. Face it, all large families suck more than their fair share out of the pockets of people with small families and those who are single. The question is, do they pay it back by helping the people of the next generation or do they pull up the ladder after themselves.
She could pack up and move to Michigan. They have great benefits there for this type of situation LOL they will give her an apartment and $$ for life, clothes, food everything LOL
Honestly, this is a very sad situation. as everyone else here has stated, she needs mental help NOW
This story is quite telling. How does this girl compare to the rest of this country. How many people in this country are just being who they are, no goals, expecting a handout form the government.
I think that woman at BHO’s rally today in Florida complaining she needs a new car, a new kitchen etc.
BHO or Oprah will take care of that for her you can count on it!
I’m sure Obama will give her a bailout any minute now. Why not, just call it a “stimulus”.
This is assuming that “David Solomon” is, actually, Jewish, or if he even exists, or if it isn’t just a completely false pseudonym.
I wish somebody would look into this.
This lady is obviously very selfish and probably should have these children taken away from her. That way, the children can get proper attention and care, and she can get medical help. Sounds good to me.
This woman is no fundamentalist icon. She isn’t married, she hasn’t given her kids a father and she isn’t taking responsibility for her children.
One might say that single people, and childless couples, are pulling the ladder up after the rest of us by refusing to have children. After all, if we’re going to have all these government programs, entitlement programs and make sure everybody gets their fair share (whatever that means) then we’re going to need future workers to keep the economy going, and pay the taxes to support all these programs. One thing I’m always hearing is that we have to bring in more immigrants (further burdening the system) because our population is aging, and there aren’t enough kids to take their place.
So, if we’re going to take a costs and balances approach to this, maybe we should say it’s the childless who aren’t helping the next generation.
Regardless of race, socio-economic position, marital status, education, WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE A “BATCH” of children!!! I am so enraged by the ignorance of this woman! My second, carefully planned, non-IVF child, turned out to be triplet boys, born prematurely and with low birth weights. They cost a million dollars each before they even got out of the NICU. They suffered from many developmental delays, and have ALL been diagnosed with Autism. Good thing she’s already divorced because having one Autistic kid destroys marriages, and she will probably have 3 or 4 diagnosed over time. Kids who will not answer to their own names, will not be potty trained in a timely manner, unable to express themselves or communicate simple and basic needs. She is in for a series of very rude awakenings.. and several years of serious sleep deprivation, further straining her precarious mental health. Graduate school? She’ll be lucky to shower regularly over the next few years.
I’m sure she will rake in the cash, even if it is just for our pleasure in watching her crash and burn. I hope Pampers make baby size parachutes, for their sakes.
Well, it seems that she was omitting that as a parasite, she was not only getting disability for 12 years, but free tuition as a “single mother” working on college degree programs to re-enter the workforce. And currently gets 490 a month in food stamps and 748 a month per disabled child. (3X748) =2244 a month. And her growingly irate mother says she doesn’t pitch in for food or rent money.
And the plastic surgery rumors appear to have validity:
http://www.theinsider.com/news/1658099_Nadya_Suleman_Before_and_After_Plastic_Surgery
How does she do it all??
******************
Then this Sunday a Right to Life minister in Modesto was boo’ed by his parishioners for saying each precious baby is a miracle of Jesus and people should pray she has more..
****************
TalkinKamel – So, if we’re going to take a costs and balances approach to this, maybe we should say it’s the childless who aren’t helping the next generation.
NO, it is the childless and those married with small families that support unwed breeders.
***************************
MylesJ:
Quiverful anyone? The fundamentalist evangelicals have a new leader.
And unlike Terri Schiavo, this one talks, breeds, and is being surgically made attractive. She saves “Snowflake Babies!” A new Fundie icon is with us! Start sending those donations in you Religious Righters, because the End of Days is near, and Sweet Baby Jesus loves those that send money to the needy Suleman and her 14 (so far) “miracles”….
Nice lips!!!
Uh, I think I missed the part where Nadya Suleman became a new evangelical leader. Got any links for that?
Nadya Suleman wasn’t supported by the religiuos right, but by:
1. Kaiser Hospital.
2. A posh fertility clinic in Beverly Hills.
3. Her sperm donor, “David Solomon”, who might be a fundamentalist—or Jewish—or atheist—or from Mars, or anything at all. He might not even exist.
4. A horde of PR and media people, as well as Oprah—a notorious fundamentalit, you’ll agree—who seem more interested in making cash off Nadya’s story than pushing any religious agenda.
Yes, evil families are oppressing poor childless people! Ya see, money is created by the government! Forget all those silly stories about wealth being created by working men and women, who create businesses, work in factories, invent things, provide services, pay taxes—in short, those who work. No, no, the government creates money, through magic. When they need more, they call upon Glinda the Good, who arrives in her magic soap bubble, waves her magic wand and trills, “Here’s your money, tra-la-la! There’s no place like Kansas!”
If actual warm bodies are needed to perform actual work, we can bring some in from Mexico. This has worked out real well to date. And, as is well known, illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nothing. We don’t need no native-born kids, no sireee!
Once Glinda creates her magic money, kindly and all-wise government employees decide who, in society, is worthy to receive this money, and who is not. People who have too many kids unfairly take this magic money from the truly deserving, such as third-world kleptocracies, the UN and the NEA, which was hoping to sponsor a Lesbian/transgender/cross-dressing art festival in Omaha this summer! Curse you, parents with kids! It’s all a fundie plot!
(I also missed the part where Terri Schiavo was an evangelical leader. Actually, I think she, and her family, were Catholics. And not especially leaders of anything. Again, got any links? Or just hysterical ranting? Fundies getting you down? You could always try Oprah, maybe even write a book!)
According to your link, Cedarford, Nadya allegedly has an unhealthy obsession with Angelina Jolie. I say we blame her, too! (She’s probably a closet fundamentalist).
And, remember, people who breed are getting an unfair share of Glinda’s magic government money! Really, all we need to do is import more workers from Mexico, if we need people! They don’t cost a thing!
/do I need one?
(It is also a well-known fact that children from large families never grow up, get jobs and pay the taxes which help support all those swell government programs).
I think it would make more sense to blame the overly lax, overly generous welfare system, than “breeders’, or large families in general.
“Quiverful anyone? The fundamentalist evangelicals have a new leader. Face it, all large families suck more than their fair share out of the pockets of people with small families and those who are single. The question is, do they pay it back by helping the people of the next generation or do they pull up the ladder after themselves.”
First off, the quiverfuls and other deeply religious large-family groups (excepting polygamists) require marriage, and pride themselves on not taking government money. Second, most prolifers are against fertility methods, as they treat children like commodities one can order up like a Big Mac. They do NOT want people making fatherless babies intentionally. They want babies ALREADY CONCEIVED to have a chance at life. That’s all. They do not argue for conceiving more.
I wish a lot fewer people were breeders. It needs to be left to people actually committed to it, not people who dump them in daycare or raise them in welfare.
But—but—but—momof3, we all know that the government has lots of free money! They get it from Glinda the Good, and then they distribute it to the deserving, and, and, and. . . (etc., and so forth).
You’re right. Pro-lifers want marriage. They want fathers. They disapprove of out-of-wedlock births (for which they’ve been criticized as heartless and uncaring), and most of them do disapprove of fertility methods that treat children, and their mothers, like commodities. It certainly doesn’t sound like any Christian fundamentalists were involved in this fiasco, and no religious leader is hurrying forward to place any kind of mantle of leadership on Nadya Suleman’s shoulders. (And, as for poor Terri Schiavo, who had absolutely NOTHING to do with this—can we please stop dancing on her grave already?)
70. TalkinKamel wrote:
I think it would make more sense to blame the overly lax, overly generous welfare system, than “breeders’, or large families in general.
Peter writes: I’m not putting any blame on large families in general. I have cousins who, admittedly many, many years ago, had 11 children. The big difference between them and Suleman is my cousins supported all eleven kids (13 including the parents) without any handouts from the government. In fact, I believe my cousin would have punched you for even suggesting the idea of taking money from the government to raise his kids. And each and every one of those eleven kids (born one at a time, in point of fact) grew up to be happy, healthy, productive members of society who then each had two, maybe three kids of their own, again being able to support those families without expecting handouts, money and/or donations from the community or govenment welfare.
I love kids too. I was born and raised an only child in my immediate family, and would have loved to have had a brother or sister like some of my friends did. But my parents could only afford one, so I was it. And when it came my turn to get married and have a family, my income limited me to only being able to support a single child, so all I have is a single child. I’m not looking for any handouts or a litter of puppies to fulfill an empty hole in my psyche.
One great suggestion for who should foot the bill is the OB that implanted her with eight blastocysts. He wanted to be famous. ;-|
All she has to do is stand in the audience at one of Barack Obama’s town hall formatted talk shows and get herself a house. It happened today.
She would have to set it up like they did today. Take a look. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-88Il-4nby0&eurl=http://
Obama knew the name of this person at the beginning of the clip..Then later asked her what her name was?….It was a total set-up.
TalkinKamel – (It is also a well-known fact that children from large families never grow up, get jobs and pay the taxes which help support all those swell government programs).
It is a well-known fact that these multiple birth extravaganzas leave many of the blessed “miracles” with profound disabilities that suck up other peoples tax dollars. The record so far for her past IVFs doesn’t look good, genetically. 3 of her other 6 are significantly disabled and will likely be drawing taxpayer funding the rest of their lives. If 4 of the “miracle octuplets” are not destined to be lifelong parasites, then we are lucky.
That means for this “large family to pay for itself and then do its share of positive for other common need government programs – defense, paying off Bush’s China debts – they must have enough to pay off Sulemens whopping medical costs, their own premie costs at Kaiser, 12-18 years of paying off their upbringing plus 3-7 expensive “special needs children” then in adulthood, the healthy ones in the brood not only paying off all the past stuff but balancing their productive contribution against 3-7 parasites who must be supported the rest of their lives from the Suleman family.
Even RTL churches taking up contributions or a corporate sponsorship of Nadya will not change the fact that THIS large family with THIS parasitic mother and her and her kids huge medical and going forward expenses will be a net negative group of contributors to society.
I worked with a guy who, with his wife, had twelve kids. I remember stopping by there once, and from all appearances it was a loving home. But the thing I remember most is that he and his wife both agreed that it was nearly a full-time job just getting to know all their children.
Cedarford, if you’ll read my previous comments, what I disagreed with was your remarks about “breeders” taking money away from childless people and those with few children (and, I suspect, you don’t much like even a few). It seems to me a very leftwing point of view: government gives us money, we don’t create it, and, that wicked family of five down the street is taking money that should rightfully go to ME!
Also, the idea that children are a burden on the economy. None of us is going to live forever; we die, the country goes on, and it would be nice to have some actual, home-grown citizens to carry on after us.
I also disagreed with your presentation of this as some sort of eeeeevvvvvil fundamentalist plot. Sorry, but it looks like our nanny-state, secularist, welfare culture (assisted by some very hubristic doctors) is responsible for this one. The most angry supporters of Nadya appear to be feminists, who tell us we don’t have the right to tell her what to do with her uterus, not fundamentalist Christians who, as momof3 points out, support marriage, fatherhood and don’t usually like tinkering with nature. nature.
(I’m still waiting for proof that Nadya Suleman is considered to be some of “leader” in the Christian community.)
I don’t approve of doctor-induced multiple births, like this one, as, again, is pretty obvious from past comments.
Peter, my remarks were directed to Cedarford, not you.
79. TalkinKamel wrote:
Peter, my remarks were directed to Cedarford, not you.
Peter replies: I know. Just wanted to get my two cents in.
{Peter!}
:>)
to: rightwinghippychic
this lady has abused her children. any parent who uses their children to get free money is abusing them. they are doing the same as selling their children without actually getting rid of them. she continued to have more babies for more money. and even before she went into the hospital the grandma has been the one to care for the first 6 children..not the mother. the grandmother has not neglected them but the mother has.
to: everyone
she should have these children removed from her custody…all of them. her heart si not in the right place. the children all 14 of them will be the ones getting hurt. i say if anybody donates money it should be donated to the children in their names and their should be a case worker to handle the money donations so that the mother can`t touch the money. it should also be done like this for the ssi that she already recieves for 3 of the older children. the big thing hear is to make it so she can`t touch the money she gets from her children so she can`t spend any of it on herself. she clearly can`t determin in advance the price(mentaly, physicaly, emtionaly or financialy) of raising a large family so why should we believe that she is capable of determining how to spend the money. and i on a personal note feel the mother should be paying grandma for taking care of and raising her 6 older children. i myself am a single mother 5 children (2 have disabilities)and i know what the grndmother is going through. except i dont have clothes falling out of closets and toys thrown everywhere and feeding in shifts but i do know what she is going through with the raising and caring of a large brood. grandma thinks she is overwhelmed now wait until the other 8 come home. she just may throw in the towel for good and if that happens mom is on her own and the state will have to come in and remove the children.
She’ll want millions for her story. Sadly, she’s going to get it because some jerk Hollywood executive will give it to her and make it into a movie.
She’s been in the news for a couple of weeks and I’m already a lot more tired of hearing about her than I am of hearing about Casey Anthony. They’ve been running her story into the ground for seven months.
The woman needs to be admitted for psychiatric evaluation and the children need to placed in foster homes or given up for adoption.
i have 1 more thing to say.
she said she worked double shifts and didnt buy a car or a house to save up to have her eggs fertilized and frozen right? well my main question is this. you have to pay more than one fee ( a once a yr fee)to have these eggs frozen and to keep them frozen am i correct? if so how did she pay to have all these eggs kept frozen for over what 6 yrs and where did she come up with the money to keep having these eggs planted back into her? doesnt it cost alot of money per egg to have them transferred back in to the woman? was she using the money from workmans comp and the childrens ssi to have this done? if so then how has she paid for things the 6 needed? she said she saved up from working double shifts. that does not make enough to fertilize, freeze, keep frozen and inplant (how much per egg) to have put back in her and take car of her other 6. not to mention while doing this all with her schooling. even with grants she still had to pay for some of her school stuff. how?
to:talkinkamel
i have read your statement on feb10 @9:51 a.m. and a child or children do not need a father to grow up properly and to become productive citizens and to stay out of crime. my children (all 5) belong to the same man and he hasnt been in their life and they are growing up just fine. they are against drugs and alcohol of every kind. they do not get into trouble and they do alot of volunteer work. raising these 14 children without a dad isn`t the issue. these childrens lives are at stake becasue i don`t feel that the mother or the grandparents are stable enough to keep these children on the good path. these children will become neglected and mis treated more than what they already are. society as a whole not just the state of california needs to find a way to help these children so they don`t become a part of statistics. these children need to be removed and they need a case worker to handle the money that comes in for these kids as well.
Candi, while I’m glad your kids have turned out okay, the fact is, fathers are important to their kids, and dads are a big issue in families: http://www.fathermag.com/406/father-daughter/
And more about fathers: http://www.fatherhood.gov/faq/importance.cfm
83. Ken wrote:
The woman needs to be admitted for psychiatric evaluation and the children need to placed in foster homes or given up for adoption.
Peter writes: Foster homes are no more than limbo. These kids are going to need permanent, loving homes. Far, far away form this so-called mother.
Candi, your children are the exception, not the rule, for children raised by single mothers, if they are all just A-Ok. It can be done obviously, we’re not suggesting kids of widows or people with Oops pregnancies get taken away. We’re saying that for people intentionally creating kids, 2 parents is by far the best arrangement. It’s proven.
I will soon have 4 kids. No woman can care for 14 alone. Not possible. I have an aquaintance with 14 kids, ages 1-25 (oldest deceased form cancer). Her DH is an OB, they have fulltime live-in help. And even still, most people could not raise that many.
I feel as though this woman is trying to channel Angelina Jolie.
Why isn’t Social Services checking into the children’s care right now?….since she is apparently never at home as she is running around doing interview and TV appearances most of the time.
And she’s obviously not “sitting at the hospital” by the hour watching over 8 tiny people (like we did over 1 little grandson born with problems–you couldn’t have dragged us out of there for the first 8 days of his life).
Nobody’s even picking up on the normal issues being presented in this situation, because the overall picture is so ghastly.
#85 candi:
“i have read your statement on feb10 @9:51 a.m. and a child or children do not need a father to grow up properly and to become productive citizens and to stay out of crime.”
Oh sure…likewise, they don’t need a mother, either. Right?
Hey…it worked on “Family Affair” and also on “The Courtship of Eddie’s Father”, didn’t it?
” my children (all 5) belong to the same man and he hasnt been in their life and they are growing up just fine.”
Sez you, but then we wouldn’t expect you to admit it if they were rotten drug-addicted criminal brats, would we? You’re not exactly an unbiased opinion on your little darlings, are you?
And, since you saw fit to give us that glimpse into your private life, how exactly COULD a man who had fathered three bastards on you already NOT be a part of their lives when he was rather obviously with you to father the remaining two?
Did you get a semen sample via UPS every other year or something?
“…they are growing up just fine. they are against drugs and alcohol of every kind. they do not get into trouble and they do alot of volunteer work.”
From where YOU sit, I don’t expect to hear anything other than “A-okay”.
I’d be interested though, to watch any of your children closely when they see OTHER kids out with their fathers.
Do you ever see the look on your boys’ faces when you see a father and son pitching and catching a baseball?
Have your girls ever asked you why they don’t have Daddies?
I am a husband and a father, and while YOU may be blind to it, I see the wounds left on children who do not have fathers.
They either come at me like a box of puppies, (usually the fatherless boys), or like skittish kittens,(the daddy-less girls), when they see me out with my own child.
And I’ll wager that evry man here who is a proper father has experienced the like in his own life.
Am I being harsh on you?
Am I not being considerate of your feelings?
How harsh have you been on your own children?
How considerate have you and your semen source been for your kids’ basic needs?
DAMN you and your self-serving flippant crap.
I cannot abide the unnecessary pain and hurt in the eyes of these kids who have suffered from the likes of you.
Crawl back into whatever hole you came out of and do us the great favor of no longer inflicting yourself and your twaddle upon us.
You’ve done quite enough already, thanks!
I can’t believe no one has connected the dots. Anyone who saw the interview knows she thinks she’s another Angelina Jolie. She’s the spitting image of Angelina. The babies are nothing but a front to the obsession she has with Angelina. She wants to live the life of Angelina with all the babies. She wants the publicity and the money without having to earn it. Suleman put two and two together and figured in order to get what Angelina has, she has to have the babies to go along with her resemblance to Angelina Jolie.
Arabs are Semites, not Caucasians.
As for her, give her a book deal and pay her for the pictures of the octuplets. What other means has she to support them? Far better that she should earn that money by selling her story than that she should be on the dole. Lifelong parasites? Yeah right. Autistic kids can support themselves in an economy based on information. They will have issues, yes, but they can pull through. The biggest problem autistic people have is that people aren’t willing to accommodate them socially. In a lot of cases, they’re naive, but quite capable mentally, so they can work as writers, office employees, or engineers if people will accept them as such. People tolerate discrimination against autistic people in ways they would not against those confined to wheelchairs. I say this as a Second Year Junior in Nuclear Engineering at the University of Michigan on a Naval ROTC scholarship with Asperger’s Syndrome.
As for some of these expenses, I don’t know where people come up with some of this stuff: college? She’s not paying for college for these kids. They’ll either get scholarships, loans, work their way through, or they won’t go to college. Car insurance for teen drivers? If they drive, those kids are going to pay for their own car insurance and other car bills. Clothes? This will be a real cost, but not as high as people estimate due to hand-me-downs from the older siblings. Toys? Even more subject to hand-me-downs than clothes.
It has already started:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491130,00.html
The publicity firm has set up a web site so people may donate money to this woman. As suggested by an earlier poster, something should be done to make sure any money collected goes to the kids and ‘mom’ can’t touch it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491204,00.html
Another article admitting that we, the people, will likely wind up raising these kids.
I particularly like the quote in the first article, where Suleman claims she will be able to raise her kids using the money from student loans until she gets her masters and can really rake in the cash. I’m sorry, but I thought student loans were for students? With 14 kids, when is this woman ever going to have time to get to a class?
to bilgeman: if you are implying that a paternity test needed to be done to say that the man is my childrens father then u are implying i am a slut. i will have u to know that while i was with him i was with noone but him. he was the one to run around. in fact he has another child with another woman and that child is 4 months younger than my oldest son. and dont u dare call my children or any child a bastard. that is disrespect for children. do u call your children bastards? what i was trying to imply earlier is that if the father is unfit then it is best for the children to grow up without him. the same goes for mothers. a child can do very well with being raised just by their father with no mother in the picture. yes i do know my children are against drugs and alcohol. they seen first hand what it can do. i know of several dads in the area who are raising children including daughters on their own and the kids are doing well. i never said my children were perfect. they make mistakes and sometimes they get a bad grade in school but as far as the drugs and crime go they are clean. my children never asked why they dont have a dad. they are happy to not have one. when i started dating they were afraid that the guy would be like their father. dispite how the father was/is i still have to remind the kids that he is still their father and they will respect him. u want to sit their and talk about how i have been considerate to my childrens needs…i am doing very well thank you. i taught my sons and daughter how to play ball, i take them camping and fishing. i do all the stuff that a dad is suppose to do with their children. i do have outside sources for help with the boys should i need it. he is a single father raising a daughter. ya know one thing im tired of hearing is how children need to parents to be raised properly and i know that it puts a damper on single parents. when i had my first child everyone told me i had to stay with the guy because a child needs his father had i known back then what i know now i would have left him alot sooner. you talk about yourself although you are a perfect dad. you spend all your free time with your children. i`m guessing you don`t. do you help them with their school work? do you help bath them? do you comfort them when they get hurt? again probably not. don`t knock the single parents until you have tried it. we are really good at being parents. so we have to work harder it`s no big deal. the children are worth it. and just so you know not all children coming from single parent homes suffer. because some children do it puts a bad rap on the rest of them. just like men. because one man cheated it`s like women saying that all men cheat or vice versa. and heres another little news flash for ya….children coming from a two parent household can suffer as well. especially when both parents are unfit. before you staqrt pointing fingers and putting pple down make sure your family life is flawless first.
to:momof3
raising 14 children alone would be hard. and if the parent, male or female had a good support system it would make it a little easier but it would still be difficult in the long run. this mom of the octs won`t be able to do it. her heart is not with her children so to speak. i feel like everyone else that she had these babies for the wrong reason. she does not have the best of intentions for them and that is what scares me? what is going to happen to them if she doesn`t get what she expected? there are 14 young lives at stake. they can`t protect themselves. unfortunately we as a society can`t vote and decide what should happen to them. we can`t remove the children ourselves and put them up for adoption. if we could then it would have already been done. i read some stuff where pple say we talk and complain about this woman because of jealousy. we all can have 14 or more if we wanted to but we know what we can afford and what we can`t so we limit ourselves. it has nothing to do with jealousy. we are on the outside looking in and it`s easier for us to step back and weigh everything and to be able to do the right thing. luckily from what i have read children and youth will be watching over the 14 children. lets just pray that they make the best decisions in regards to the children. congradulations on the 4th child.
to: myth buster
i am glad to hear you are doing so well. i have a 9 yr old who is autistic along with some other problems due to his prematurity. and NO BILGEMAN it wasn`t because of me or something i did. sorry had to put that in there before he started yapping his gums. but anyway my 9 yr old wants to go in the army when he gets older. according my my ex brother in law who is a marine he said the military won`t except him. so i sat down with my son and talked with him about it. as a back up he wants to own his own construction company. i feel he should go into demolition. pple are afraid of what they dont know or don`t understand. autistic pple are very smart. very intelegent. and they are the most loving pple. yes i can say this from pesonal experience. and i also know that they have a tendancy to be more forgiving than the rest of us. myth buster you said you have a navy rotc scholarship. then there is hope that my son may be able to go into some branch of the military? ocngradulations on your acomplishments. i am interested in knowing how it`s going for you? please keep me up to date.
Well, it definitely appears that this woman has chutzpah (sp?) Apparently, she used her disability payments first to pay for plastic surgery so that she would look like Angelina and then to pay for fertility treatments. What a strange story.
As far as the autism discussion goes…there is a mild form of autism called Asperger’s Syndrome, and there are so many people that appear to have this condition in the large metroplolitan public library system that I work for that we just call them Aspies (affectionately). I think there are a lot of job possibilities for geeky smart people besides being a librarian. A lot of IT people seem to fit into this category. In a way, it’s cool to be like this.
The woman is, obviously, playing the system, which is why she, and her parents, need to be investigated. Is she a citizen? If not, how did she, and her parents, manage to enter the country in the first place? Sorry, Mythbuster, but it doesn’t sound as if this woman plans on paying her own way at all. She’s going to use her student loans to support her kids? As somebody else pointed out, student loans are for students, and not to be used for any other purpose. This woman, encouraged by her own parents, I suspect, sees America as one giant ATM, and American taxpayers as servants, who exist only to support her whims, be it looking like Angelina Jolie or fulfilling her fantasies of having a big, happy family. She’s got to be disabused of that notion, and fast.
Bilgeman, Candi’s posts demonstrate the very atttitude that leads to cases like this: single moms, giving birth to multiple children, and expecting the rest of society to support them, and even approve.
It’s the attitude that Dads (and moms) aren’t necessary; that a mom, or a dad, is an unnecessary appurtenance, who doesn’t really bring anything special so a child’s upbringing. That it’s okay to sleep with a cad, a brute or a feckless idiot you’re not going to marry—or get in vitrio—-because you can always go it alone, with the state’s help. MEMO to single moms in general: If you really don’t think the guy will make a good father to your kids, don’t have children with him in the first place! (And, of course, the same goes for guys—just reverse the male and female designations).
Our society’s idealization of single motherhood, while demeaning traditional families (i.e., take a look at Cedarford’s ranting against “fundies”) is, quite simply, insane. Look at the way Ann Coulter was pilloried in her recent book, for daring to criticize single moms. The Left likes to sneer at conservatives for supposedly idealizing Mom, the flag and apple pie, but they themselves have turned unwed, irresponsible motherhood into something to be admired.
Peter, no, she’s not going to have time to go to school (not that I think she really intends to). The woman’s 33 years old, and, apparently, hasn’t held a job for years. When is she actually planning to get a degree, and go to work?
This woman’s sense of entitlement is simply amazing.
#99 Talkinkamel:
“Bilgeman, Candi’s posts demonstrate the very atttitude that leads to cases like this: single moms, giving birth to multiple children, and expecting the rest of society to support them, and even approve.”
Which is why we should whack that mole every time it pops it’s head out of whatever hole it’s hiding in.
to: talkinkamel
i did not imply that single moms should have kids and expect everybody else to pay for them. i support my own children. i am very picky about that. i don`t want my children or any child to grow thinking it`s ok to pop out all these kids and not be able to afford them. i don`t want my children to learn that others will pay for they way through life. i know to many pple around here who walk through town dragging 2 strollers filled to the max with kids and children walking alongside of them. and what gets me the most is that these pple are on welfare and government programs and not just the parents but the children are also dirty with stained torn clothes, and they are on cell fones. now because it`s just my income i dont get manicures and go to the beauty salons or anything like that. if i can`t doll myself up at home on my own then i don`t need it. luckily i was raised into knowing that having a little is just enough. we don`t need a hot tub, we don`t need a big pool in the back yard or fancy decks. in fact we don`t even have any newer game systems. we have ps1 and ps2. the kids know that if they want money they have to do chores. if they want something big and special outside of birthdays and holidays they have to save up their money to buy it. they go around the neighborhood or to other family members and do stuff for them for pay because they aren`t quit old enough for working papers. i know some pple think i`m horrible for having the kids do chores…i have already heard all about it. but you know what. when you hand the pay to them and they see that they “worked” for the money and they earned it, the looks on their faces is amazing. it`s that wow i earned this…i did it myself. it`s a sense of accomplishment. my oldest who is 15 already is excited about getting his working papers when he turns 16. i am very big on having children learn to work for what they want. i always tell them life is not free. sometimes they want pay without the work and i don`t give in. this guy i have been with a several yrs wants to help support the children and i wont let him. he did not help make my children. their dad and i made them so it is up to us to support them. it`s not my b/f`s job to help me with them. they are mine. my responsability. i learned that quick when i was 17. because i had a newborn, a job, my own apt and school. sometimes u have to make sacrifices and give up on some luxuries but i don`t mind it. i wouold rather have the money ,my own money to pay my children for their chores than to have the government pay them for me. when we go on food stamps, cash assistance or what have you, what are we teaching our children? we aren`t teaching them to be independant, we aren`t teaching them how to support themselves and to save money. i m sorry if you thought i was implying in my one comment that it is ok to teach them how to live off the system. that is not what i meant. alot of pple who know me know that what i say i say all wrong. i`m not very good at putting my thoughts, ideas and feelings down for the whole world to read. and ur right this mother of the octs will not have time for schooling. it was hard going through senior yr with one child. i can`t imagine going through the rest of college with 14. and just to make a note so everybody knows. just because we are considered single parents and yes some are on welfare it does not mean all of us are on welfare. some of us work our butts off to support our families(children). i know all or some of you know these women who have kids then find some poor soul to marry not for love or for family but to have the guy work and support them and thier kids so they dont have to work. i know a few women who have done that and i want to smack them upside the head. because not only do i pay taxes like everybody else, but i support my children and my taxes go to those who don`t want to work.
to :talkinkamel i never said i approved of single moms or what this oct mom is doing. i am having a fit about it just like everybody else. but i was disagreeing with bilgeman on the fact that children need both parents. he is pretty much saying that all children who are raised by one parent eventually turn into jailbirds and what have you. that is not true. before he opens his mouth about single parents maybe his wife should take a yr off and stick him totally alone with the children so he can see what it takes to be a single parent. and what i also disagree with him on is how can someone who spent from the age of 15-23 solely with the same man a slut. how many times has he stepped out on his wife? how many times has he left his wife at home alone with the children so he can go out and enjoy the company of “others”?
to: bilgeman i hope for your sake you are not calling me a mole! words have a way of getting back at ya. meaning there is always a price to pay for what you say and do. everybody is entitled to their own thoughts, ideas and opinions. it does not give you the right to judge, put down, and criticize before you know someone. my dad has always told me that when pple start pointing fingers and name calling and accusing it`s from guilt. so what are you guilty of? i was also told that pple act like asses because they are one. maybe youre the mole. i`m beginning to wonder if your jealous because some of us are better off than you..without the help from welfare or the government. have you recently lost your job? is that where this anger is coming from? the more you yap your gums the more anger i see in you.
Well, Candi, I’m not a mole, at least not the last time I checked.
I am not jealous of you, or anybody else on the planet. I still have my job. You may or may not be financially better off than me. (One thing I will brag about—I do know how to use paragraphs, I don’t use run-on sentences, and I can capitalize. Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
All the anger seems to be coming from you. You jumped on bilgeman, because he dared to state that kids do better with two parents, now you’re jumping on me because I agreed with him that two parents are necessary (something that many psychiatrists, and sociologists, agree with; the evidence is pretty much in).
Candi, what we’ve got today is a very bad system. I’m glad to hear your kids are doing okay, but, you know what? That doesn’t change a thing. This isn’t about you, personally, or your kids, personally, but about how our society devalues fathers, and marriage—and, quite bluntly, people like you don’t help the situation, having five children with a man you, yourself, admit was not good father material. This is the kind of attitude—-”My kids don’t need a father! I can go it all alone, dads don’t matter!”—that has led to our single mother, broken family culture.
No, maybe your kids won’t turn out to be criminals. I certainly hope not. But it’s been found, time and time again, that lack of a father is one of the big determining factors in boys and girls getting into trouble, far more so than income, ethnic background or anything else.
And you may not be getting financial support, Candi, but you certainly do expect us to sit back and applaud you—and you get mad when we don’t.
this isn`t school. i dont have to use paragraphs or capitol letters.and ure right this is not about me. and no i`m not getting mad for not getting applauded on. i`m just tired of pple dumping on single parents. not all single parents are the same. everybody and every situation is different. but unfortunately some pple can`t understand that. they think that because a single mom or dad is single it`s because they choose to be when in fact that is not always the case. some of us start off in a two parent household and one tends to go bad which leaves you with one parent.
talkinkamel i wasnt referring the mole bit or the last bit to you at all. it was referred to the other guy. early in this thing he pretty much called me a slut because im a single mother of 5.
Whoeve said that the mother is not to blame is an idiot! She made this decision and knew full well what to expect. Of course the doctor is to blame also. He’s a quack! I feel sorry for the kids. It is better for a child to have two parents, in my book. When the kids start asking where their daddy is I wonder what kind of lie she’ll make up then.
I raised one of my three daughters by my self due to divorce. The other two are from my current husband of 26 years. I didn’t expect anyone to help me with the first. I did it myself. IT WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY. Not anyone elses. It’s what you’re supposed to do. No kudos or applause. People who expect applause for doing their job have a serios problem. BOO-HOO_ for you. Grow up.
to put it short and sweet and hopefully without any misunderstanding. i was using myself and parents like me as an example. when a 2 parent household goes awry and becomes a one parent home, then it is possable for that one parent, dad or mom, to raise happy, healthy, productive children and adults on thier own… without assistance.
Hello anne. In case if you haven`t read the ealier stuff. I do not expect nor do I want an applause for doing my job as a mother! I know it`s my job.
We all agree on one thing. People like this mother of 14, needs to find a way to support her children on her own. Since this will not happen I`m afraid to know what will happen to the children if she does not get the support that she was hoping for.
The state of California needs to step in before the babies are released to go home.
Whatever, Candi, Whatever. If you were married, and your husband divorced you, you have my sympathy.
The fact is, I do see a lot of silly young women around me, choosing to have children out of wedlock because they think it’s cool, because they think the guy will marry them, because it’s what all their friends are doing, because their in looooooove. Whatever, the fact is, they are choosing to become single parents. They can’t claim that they were abandoned by a spouse (they’ve chosen to marry), or that babies just kinda, sorta happened to them, like catching a cold.
No, this isn’t school, but comments are a lot easier to read when there’s at least an attempt at punctuation (I make lots of mistakes myself) and when there’s some sort of break in the writing. A huge, unbroken block of letters is a lot to have to plough through.
I DO NOT want your sympathy. I am NOT nor was I one of those young girls you mentioned.
“The fact is, I do see a lot of silly young women around me, choosing to have children out of wedlock because they think it’s cool, because they think the guy will marry them, because it’s what all their friends are doing, because their in looooooove.”
I do however agree with you on that one. My ex sister-n-law was one of those young girls. Now she regrets it.
What is up with the marriage thing anyway? I`m not saying being married is a bad thing. Because it`s not. They had a study out I think last year, that showed more couples prefer to live together and have families without being married. They said the rate of marriage has decreased, and half of marriages end in divorce. They also mentioned something about more women choosing not to get married.
If this is the case, then how can more children be born in wedlock than out of wedlock? I mean pple complain about children being born out of wedlock but how can they be born in wedlock with less pple getting married?
The “Campaigner in Chief” should give this poor thing a 15 bedroom house. And a bus so she can go shopping with them. Why not secret service help.
“His Emptiness” has loads of money to spend now. He’s spending OUR money like a rap star with a top selling record. Where’s the bling?
Obama’s screwing every U.S. taxpayer; Why shouldn’t she? Very enterprising young lady.
“What is up with the marriage thing, anyway?”
Candi, I think a lot of us here have been talking about that very thing. A lot of us think that couples living together out of wedlock is a bad thing: bad for them, bad for their kids.
So, what is it with the marriage thing? If you have to ask, I’m not sure I can answer. It all comes back to the very things we’ve been talking about here: responsibility, kids needing both a mom and a dad, a welfare society (because if dads don’t help support their kids, eventually the government has to step in)taking more and more money from the taxpayers; moms having more kids than they can support, men exploiting gullible, or lonely, young women, and then refusing to take any responsibility for the children that result.
If you really think broken, or never-formed, families, motherless or fatherless kids and abandoned young moms are a fine thing; that the way our society works now is just fine, I honestly don’t have anything more to say to you. Sorry, the current state of American families is something that does make me extremely angry.
#96 candi:
” and dont u dare call my children or any child a bastard. that is disrespect for children.”
No, snookums, it’s descriptive proper noun. Here’s a dictionary:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bastard
I quote:
“Bastard: A person born of unmarried parents”
Ergo, I am stating a fact, (five of ‘em, to be precise).
So don’t tell ME what to call them when YOU made ‘em.
You have not the authority, the right or the brains to demand any such thing of anyone.
“do u call your children bastards?”
In point of fact…no. My child was born to my wife and I AFTER we had already been married.
Not even so much as the “Miracle Six-Month Pregnancy”, which at least indicates that the father and mother know the right thing to do, and are trying to do it,(even if their timing is a little off).
” i will have u to know that while i was with him i was with noone but him. he was the one to run around. in fact he has another child with another woman and that child is 4 months younger than my oldest son.”
Oh, now come on, Ann Coulter, you’re laying it on a bit thick in this troll aren’t you?
I mean do you REALLY expect us to believe that while you were 5 months along with your first bastard, it’s father went out and knocked up some other bimbo…and that you then “punished” him by whelping four more of his puppies?
There might have been women who had an “oopsie baby” reading this who cringed at how harsh I was with you, but snookums, you’re a 5 time loser.
T’ain’t gonna be much support for you from the sisterhood now.
“when i had my first child everyone told me i had to stay with the guy because a child needs his father had i known back then what i know now i would have left him alot sooner.”
Hey, everybody…even “candi” figured it out…four kids later!
Hooray for candi!
Tell me princess, which did you find the most difficult, taking a pill once a day from the cassette or rolling a condom onto his babymaker?
(You DID at some point figure out that that part of his body had something to do with your pregancies, didn’t you?)
It seems you were manifestly incompetent in both of those endeavors.
Or did you even TRY?
I guess pregnancy, childbirth and single motherhood was easier than that Norplant thingie or getting spayed would have been,huh?
“ya know one thing im tired of hearing is how children need to parents to be raised properly and i know that it puts a damper on single parents.”
YOU’RE tired, huh?
Well, here’s a newsflash for you, my little dullard…WE are tired of whiny little tramps with their bastards in tow, telling US that they need OUR money to pay for THEIR mistakes, when their mistakes were perfectly foreseeable and easily preventable.
Furthermore, we need no philosophical rationalizing claptrap from someone who has more fertile eggs than functional brain cells.
“don`t knock the single parents until you have tried it.”
Not on your LIFE, toots!
And THERE’S a loser’s argument if I ever heard one.
Let’s be clear on something…you aren’t a widow, and nor are you a divorcee.
You’re not even a single woman busting her ass trying to raise the one bastard that she wouldn’t or couldn’t give up or abort.
You’ve had FIVE by a guy that you say was no good.
You know what you are? Really?
A brood mare…and a life-long slave to his testicles.
And you’re trying to recruit other dumb girls to join you in your diaper-bondage so you won’t feel like the loser that you know you are.
Well I was just thinking that if statistics show that single parents have their hand out for society to pay for them and their families, and parents together who are not married also have thier hands out for society to pay for them and the rate of unmarried having children is incresing because fewer pple want to get married, Then the logical explanation would to change the rules on who can apply for these “fundings”.
Give fundings for those who deserve it like our veterans (disabled or not). I have come across to many pple who have faked thier way into getting government funding who don`t deserve it. Even single pple who have no children and it`s because they don`t want to work. Is it really that easy to get the government to pay for your things? No wonder there isn`t enough fundings to go around to those who truely need it.
Is there a way to promote families who stay together? like make a nice commercial or something? I have noticed how family value has gone down hill. They need to promote and encourage family values. Has anyone even considered a funding for this? They have commercials on beer and liqour and vitoria secret and crap like that. So why is there nothing for happy, healthy families?
Not to change the subject but news is out saying the police are investigating threatning letters to the oct mom and her family. They should be investigating her instead.
Candi
Wow, you do know how to use capitol letters. I’m impressed.
I think Clinton was born out of wedlock. You see how well he turned out.
The governator heard about the eight births and the six other children. He looked at the state budget and was heard to have said, “Oy Vay!”
Obama was raised without a father. You see how well he turned out.
Why are so many Democrats raised without fathers?
Do you have to be raised without a father to be a Democrat?
Is it a requirement?
Cedarford
I’m actually proud of you today.
Bubblehead,
Good going it was fun to read your stuff.
Talkinkamel.
You were good too.
#120. Oscar the Grump:
“The governator heard about the eight births and the six other children. He looked at the state budget and was heard to have said, “Oy Vay!””
That’s NOT what he said. We know how he responded.
He picked up a handgun and asked her:
“Saruh Connuh?”
#117 Candi
Little lady, you might not spell well or not use capitols or have run on sentences, but that was well spoken. I wish what you said could be the law of the land.
This just came out in news. The doctor who impregnated Suleman also impregnated a 49 year old with four fetuses. I don’t know if she’s also a single mom. There are some legal authorities who want to make him responsible for the children.
Question: Could the doctor be considered the father and be sued for child support? This is getting more interesting all the time.
Thank you Oscar the Grump. I`m not spelling poorly by choice. I have a bad keyboard and when i type fast my left hand moves quicker than the right. But seriously thank you again.
I was doing the math while typing and had a lot of stuff in my head. I hate to say it but it looks like we may be doomed. It`s not just single parents with thier hand out but it`s also pple with no children and married couples w/w-out children. More pple are being added to this list.
Why is it that sex, drugs and violence sell but family life doesn`t? Have we gotten so bad? Since when did pple become so stingy and greedy and self centered? Isn`t there enough problems in the world without this crap? PPle yell at me for sheltering my children and now they know why. I mean they watch the news and what have you but some of todays societys behavior i don`t want them to learn.
I have had alot of time to think at work lastnight, and I have come to the conclusion that it`s all the children we need to protect. They are our future. It`s sad and disappointing that this is what most of our children are being taught how to live. I feel that if we went back to trading instead of using cash then maybe this oct mom and others who live off the rest of us would have to trade their children to good homes for food and shelter. How else would they be able to survive. On the other hand the government may find a way to give them things to trade. Yep we are screwed!!!
Bilgeman. My children are not bastards. they have a father. He may not be around but he is still thier father non the less. and yes my “step daughter” is 4 months younger than my oldest. How many children do you have? Couldn`t you wrap your penis. And yes I do work thank you. I pay taxes just like everybody else in here. YOU are NOT the only one who is paying for others to live off the system. Sweetheart you don`t know me so don`t go talking as though you do. And also for your info he was a great father at one point but he changed.
If your wife cheated on you and did the things to you that some of us had done to us what would you have done about it? would you have stuck it out to try and work out the problem? Would you have tried to do what you could to keep the relationship together? Or would you have just given up and left? How many pple had relationship problems and hung on to try and work things out with their spouse/partner? Are they wrong for doing so? does that make them less of a person for it? Does that make them “scums”?
Ok so not everybody would handle a relationship the way you do. I`m guessing from your behavior you either A: are a control freak or B: your wife wears the pants and this is the only place where you have a say in things.
Congrads to all who have tried to work out relationship problems. If more pple are willing to do that then maybe there would be less broken homes.
#130 candi:
“My children are not bastards.”
Nope…they are. The fault is not theirs, it is yours and the one who impregnated you.
But they’re barstards nevertheless.
Deal!
” and yes my “step daughter” is 4 months younger than my oldest.”
Are you actually telling us that you’re raising his bastard by another woman?
You CANNOT be for real! Cut it out, Ms. Coulter… I enjoy your writing, but you’re REALLY straining the limits of disbelief, here.
“Couldn`t you wrap your penis.”
I’m the wrong guy for you to ask that question of, sweetie.
“I pay taxes just like everybody else in here.”
Hot quite, snookums, I’ll bet you take a LOT more deductions and credits than most of us.
” you don`t know me so don`t go talking as though you do.”
From your own posts,I know enough about you. And I gotta say, it’s making me laugh out loud, and then vomit in disgust, and then laugh out loud once more.
Fascinating, in it’s own way. I’d usually expect to have to pay cash to see such a freak show.
“And also for your info he was a great father at one point but he changed.”
Really?
Would this have been around your 5th month of your first pregnancy?
You know…when he was tappin’ that other dame and producing your “step daughter”?
Maybe he just got to truly know you.
I’m getting the impression that you’re the type who doesn’t know when to shut up.
Am I alone in this, gang?
“I`m guessing from your behavior you either A: are a control freak or B: your wife wears the pants and this is the only place where you have a say in things.”
Since you’re essentially little more than a vagina attached to a fertile uterus,(and a one-woman day-care industry for illegitimate children), I haven’t the slightest concern about your opinions on my marriage, which is over ten years and counting.
You wouldn’t know anything about the theory or the practice of the sacrament, toots, see?
“If more pple are willing to do that then maybe there would be less broken homes.”
You apparently never created a “home” worthy of the name to begin with.
#117 candi:
“They need to promote and encourage family values.”
That’s what I’m doing here.
You don’t seem to care for it much, though.
Candi, don’t try to drag Bilgeman’s, or anybody else’s, relationships, into this.
Everyone around you, who told you to stay with a man who fathered children out of wedlock, were fools. Anyone who encouraged you to work on your “relationship” with this guy was either an idiot or a scoundrel. At any event, they didn’t have your, or your kids’ best interests at heart. Again, this demonstrates to me the sickness and lack of regard for families, or individuals, in our culture, a sort of sickly romanticism in which boyfriend-girlfriend stuff is all-important, and it’s the woman’s responsibility to “work” on relationships, even when the man is irresponsible, uncaring and not about to change.
One answer to your question as to why family life doesn’t sell is that women are encouraged to put self-destructive, exploitive “relationships” before their own well-being, or that of their children. No, such “relationships” do not need to be worked out; they need to be dropped, and you need to go looking for someone who’se actually worth your time.
I’m sorry everyone around you mislead you, and that there were no churches, real support groups or at least someone with some intelligence to steer you in the right direction.
A good father marries the mother of his children. And stays with her. Period. End. of. Discussion. And friends, and family, who really care about a woman, don’t encourage to stick with some bad boy and become his “baby momma” because she must work on the “relationship”; WHAT relationship?
Bilgeman, I never said I was raising his daughter. You said that, not me. You are not the wrong guy to be asking if he could have wrapped his penis. You said similar remarks to me. If I shouldn`t be asking you that then you shouldn`t be asking me that either.
“vagina attached to a fertile uterus,(and a one-woman day-care industry for illegitimate children)”. Is this how you see women? If something should happen between you and your wife, is this how you will see her?
You are a very negative man. I actually feel sorry for you. I tell you what. You go ahead and cotinue bashing on me and others like me, whom you do not know. If that is what makes you feel better and happy, then please by all means give me your best shot. You are not hurting me or my children.
More on the other mom, the 49 year old……..
She is also a welfare mom. She’s at USC County hospital, with four implantations. She is confined to bed for the next 2-3 months. Great now they can stay on welfare by going into this doctor’s office and getting implantations.
This doctor is responsible for 12 new welfare children all on our buck. Shouldn’t some state agency sue him for child support and other medical bills?
Candi, the definition of bastard is still children who’s parents weren’t married.
Yes, the divorce rate overall is a little under 50%. This doens’t divide by subgroups. Not everyone has a 50% chance of divorce. People who live together before marrying are-suprise!-more likely to divorce. Second + marriages are more likely to end in divorce. People who do it “right” have a much lower chance of divorce. If something has been the accepted way for hundreds of years across societies, there’s a reason.
Are there 2 Candies? She has some posts bashing people down on single motherhood, then some saying family values need to be advertised. I’m confused. Staying with your kids dad doesn’t have to mean having 4 more of them. While unmarried. What, a vow is too much commitment but a human life or 5 is not?
“Bastard”, I knew there was a descriptive term for Bill Clinton, I just didn’t know what it was. Come on people help me out here.
Talkinkamel, I hear what you are saying. I was young and stupid. I still had a lot to learn about relationships (good and bad). Unfortunately I have made some bad decisions and i can`t change that now. All I can do is make things better. With everything else as time goes on and pple age they gain more knowledge, more understanding. I have found a good man. we have been together for several years and his is wonderful.
I know that when you give pple your advice or opinions or whatever you feel comfortable calling it, I know that you have the best intentions in mind and your not doing it to be mean. That i appreciate. and I`m sure others you have talked with appreciate it as well.
I have also noticed the tone in your “voice”. You seem to be more realxed and not so edgy. It`s kind of like you go in to say what you want and take it from there. You don`t seem to have a harsh cruelty to you. You know the kind where some pple think they are better than you. Or the kind that is unforgiving and not understanding. You are like the total opposite. You are grown up and mature about it. That I also appreciate.
As pple may have noticed, I am not like that. I wish I were. But when i`m being attacked by someone who doesn`t know me and assumes they do. Or if they come at me with an attitude they get one back.
When i discussed working on relationship issues, I was talking about relationship problems that can escalade. For example, the wife`s constant nagging about the hubby spending more time at work or with his friends than at home. Or wives complaining about the lack of communication. Or the hubby complaining about the wife shopping to much. All these can lead to further problems if it is not resolved. Both parties have to be open and honest with their feelings and each other no matter what the situation may be.
No maybe I`m not the one to be talking about relationships. But I have learned from my own relationship mistakes as well as others. To many times I have seen marriages fail because the women nags to much or because of lack of communication and what have you. The important thing is that everything I see, hear and experience I learn from. The things I learn I try to put to use for the better of my family as well as myself.
momof3, here’s a true story:
A lawyer friend of mine was talking to a guy who came in, asking what to do about his situation. He’d been living with a woman for 10 years, he’d had three children by her. The lawyer asked, “Well, why don’t you just get married to her?” The man looked at him and said—I kid you not—”I’m just not ready for the commitment!”
Yes, at this point in our society, commitments are too much to handle, but human lives aren’t. That’s it, exactly. And “relationships” are considered more important than a kid’s, or a woman’s, well being.
Oscar, I don’t know if it’s legally possible to get the doctor for fatherhood, but it certainly sounds like he’s playing Dr. Mengele here.
Candi, your anger would be better directed at those around you who encouraged you to stay in a relationship with this guy, and the pseudo-therapuetic, pseudo-romantic culture that glorifies “relationships” over real love and commitment.
To: Momof3
I do not agree with single women who have children to live off the system. I do support single mothers or fathers who do work and provide for their children without assistance. somethings can`t be helped. sometimes marriages end in divorce. sometimes it ends because one spouse passes away. And if I`m correct didn`t you approve of prostitution.
” 41. momof3:
So what? Women (and their parents) have been auctioning off their virginity to the highest bidder for centuries, via marriage. Honestly I would rather have got the cash for mine,”
Doesn`t prostitution sometimes end up with children being born or pregnancies being terminated. Not to mention STD`s.
“43. momof3: Whores have been around since mankind has. And over 50% of women marrying in puritan new england (since we’re talking morals) were pregnant, according to comparisons of marriage and birth records. So let’s not get all indignant like this is new”.
It`s not a smart idea to go into a marraige looking at it like it`s prostitution. To answer my ealier question, you already have. You answered it with the comparisons of marriage and birth records.
I know the terminology for a child born without a father is called a bastard. my children had a father when they were born. big difference. prostitutes and ladies of the like have children who are born without fathers. Bilgeman used the word with so much anger and hate. He used it in a mean way.
Besides we all become bastards. We will always be somebodys child no matter how old we are. And unfortunately like moms, dads die too.
I know pple are going to argue the bastard thing and that`s fine. Truth is they don`t have a name for a child who has no mother. Not that I am aware of. Why? Because the mother was around when the child was born…obviously. Bastard children, well their dad is not around when they are born.
To: Oscar the grump. Are you serious about this dr? I wonder how many more women had him do this that are still pregnant?
Moms and dads do die, but, in traditional marriage and family raising, they die after the kids are adults, and aren’t dependent on their parents anymore, either financially or psychologically. The way our current system works, encouraging one-parent families, kids loose out on a father and/or mother right at the start of their lives. This is not good.
Also, with a parent still alive, but not having anything to do with their kid, the issue becomes “Why doesn’t Mommy/Daddy love me? Why don’t they choose to be with me?” something far more difficult to cope with than the death of an elderly parent.
Where the heck do you get that momof3 is comparing marriage to prostitution? She isn’t. Entering marriage like prostitution isn’t a good idea (though that’s a pretty old saw that progressives like to throw at the insitution), but having kids out of wedlock because you’re working on a “relationship”, or because you’re in looooooove (cue in the banjos, here), or because your idiot friends and family are encouraging you to do this, or you read in a magazine that single mom-hood is the new, progressive family—well, that’s not such a hot idea, either.
Talkinkamel. momof3 had that to say about the woman who was selling her virginity on ebay to the highest bidder. a bunch of us were throwing around ideas and opinions as to wether or not it was prostitution. Maybe that was thrown in at the wrong time during the debate.
I had to mention the parent passing away thing because my b/f`s 9 yr old niece lost her mother 4 yrs ago. Her dad is still single and he is raising her. Not all parental deaths occur when the child grows up. I am not one for reading parenting and relationship issues from a magazine. Everyone is different and every situation is different. I didn`t have my children because I was trying to work on the relationship. Things hit the fan when my last child was born…a girl. What he didn`t let on was that he didn`t want a girl. He went to court and got visitations for his daughter so I had no idea that was going to happen. It was definately something i did not see comming.
My point earlier is that sometimes even in 2 parent (both parents married) households things hppen that cannot be foreseen or stopped and the household becomes a one parent home. Some pple after going through one divorce choose to go the parenting thing alone out of fear of what may happen with the second marriage. Things don`t always turn out for the best, no matter how hard we try.
For another instance. Two pple fall in love, get married. Marriage is strong, healthy for 10 yrs. Then they both decide it`s time to expand the family. Maybe they just have one kid or maybe three. Then out of the blue one parent decides child/children wasn`t for them and they leave. Who is the one to take critism? The parent left standing with the kid(s)or the one who walked away? Some critism goes to the one who walked away, others critisize the parent who stayed with the child.
Well, Candi, I honestly don’t think these things just happen “out of the blue”. People try to pretend that it does, but it’s been my experience that, if a marriage is in trouble, there are usually plenty of signs of trouble beforehand. And, in our divorce-happy atmosphere, I think far too many couples call it quits for trivial, or foolish reasons. They have no sense of commitment, of weathering the bad times, of real love, and society encourages them to “go out and find themselves”. Usually, this means a string of broken marriages and love affairs, with some old person at the end of it wondering why their kids don’t want to have anything to do with them.
As for someone deciding “out of the blue” that children aren’t for them—after already having a kid, for G-d’s sake—then, yeah, the one who walks away is the one who should get all the criticism, and lots of it! Haven’t you read a thing that Momof3 and I have been saying, about how society encourages people to slough off commitments, yet seems to think human children are so inconsequential their parents can bring them into the world without at least trying to offer them a family, and some stability? You know, kids are cute, like puppies, and if you decide you’re just not into them, you can drop them off at the pound, or get somebody else to raise them? Well, BS!
Didn’t you read my earlier post, where I say that abandonment is more painful for kids than a parent’s death? How do you think a kid feels, knowing that a parent decided that “kids just weren’t for them”? You think that doesn’t hurt a kid? Make them feel angry? Alone? Unloved? What gives a parent the right to decide this? “Well, I gave you life, but you’re unworthy of my attention. I’ve uh, changed my mind.”
Yes, parents sometimes die prematurely, and the surviving parent has to take care of the kid alone. (Though parents usually don’t die young, not in this society.) But the way things are going today, we’re deliberately setting up unstable, unhappy families, and encouraging many parents to act like irresponsible, uncaring creeps. Suppose that single dad had decided not to take care of daughter? Maybe, he’ll decide, kids just aren’t his thing; maybe his new girl friend will object to having the child around (the latter might still happen, if he’s dating). What happens to this child then? Her dad, obviously, isn’t real big on commitment, or sticking it out; he never bothered to marry the girl’s mother. It’s good he’s taking care of her now, but—is it going to last?
Single parenthood, deliberately entered into, whether it’s getting pregnant outside of marriage, or through in vitrio, is never a good idea. They’re usually more unstable than ordinary, traditional homes, and bring in outsiders: i.e., Mom/Dad’s boyfriend/girlfriend who may try to interfere in the kid’s life without having their best interests at heart.
Sorry, Candi, single parenthood just isn’t as good as the traditional, two-parent family. All the touching little anecdotes in the world about how well some single parents are doing doesn’t change this; these single parents tend to be the exception, not the rule, and they’re bucking some pretty heft odds.
All the psycho-babble about things just happening “out of the blue”; “One parent decides children aren’t for them”; “working on relationships” can’t change this.
I say screw relationships. Love, and commitment, are better. Better for women, better for kids, better for men.
Of Leeches
Leech: “a bloodsucking worm . . . one who clings to another for personal advantage”
In recognition of their outstanding success in demonstrating all the best and worst a good leech can accomplish, the following are hereby awarded the top three positions as Leeches of the Month:
A. Leader of the pack in the Leechers League would have to be the Mother of the Century, baby breeder extraordinaire, Nadya Suleman, shown below proudly exhibiting her huge carryall:
Ms. Suleman already had 6 kids, no home, no job, no husband, no future, so what else could she do but go for another in vitro fertilization and pop out 8 more little cherubs? Sounds reasonable to me, no?
Of course, Californians, already trying to subsist in a bankrupted state, will have to pick up the multi-million dollar tab over the next umpteen years to raise this leech’s brood. And why does she now have fourteen kids? Because she’s always wanted a large family.
Nadya even has her own website now, http://www.thenadyasulemanfamily.com/, to sucker people into sending her money and goodies.
You got a problem with that?
B. In second place on the Leech List, at the moment, none other than a poor, homeless–and brainless–Florida woman, Henrietta Hughes. . .
(Read the rest of this article at http://genelalor.com/.)
I think it’s the responsiblity of all people to take care of each other. If we fail to do this then we are nothing but common, base animals, like zoo animals. We should suppor this woman and make sure her children are health and have good eduations and are happy.
Am I hearing correctly? Are conservatives arguing that the state should take these children from their mother? Oh dear!
#140 candi:
“Bilgeman used the word with so much anger and hate. He used it in a mean way.”
If I’m negative with you, it’s because your actions disgust me.
The consequences of those actions, some of which I’ve shared, anger me.
And your attitude enrages me because it is a ready-made rationalization for the next “young and stupid” candi, (your description of yourself to TK, not mine), to get herself into circumstances just like yours are now.
Isn’t that REALLY what you’re trying to do here?
I’m a seaman, toots, I’ve spent decades working around alcoholics…hard-core, “no stops on the throttles” binge-drunkards.
You know what an alcoholic hates worse than anything?
Having to drink alone.
See, when he’s surrounded by other people who are imbibing a cold one, he can fool himself into feeling normal…BECAUSE he’s surrounded with other people who are also drinking.
When they get to the point where they NEED to drink alone to keep the “bugs in the bulkheads and the snakes in the deckplates”…those boys are on their last lap,
That’s what your attitude and your rationalizations are trying to accomplish here, whether you realize it or not.
Frankly kiddo, I’ve written you off…you didn’t figure it out after one bastard, and still didn’t RTFM after number two…or THREE.
But there’s hope for the younger ones. Perhaps I can toss ‘em a line so that they don’t hit the reef the first time, nd if they have run aground once, they dope out how to stay off it again.
Quite honestly, from what I’ve observed being “nice” and “considerate” and “diplomatic” to people who are engaged in doing unbelievably stupid and harmful things is a waste of time.
You want someone to kiss your behind and sweet-talk you and cajole you…you can find enough of that in our society.
They’re usually trying to sell you something, so they’ll reinforce any bullshit notions that might be rattling around up inside your coconut…just as long as you buy the cosmetics and the garments they advertise.
I reckon that harshly thumping ‘em upside the nugget with the naked and ugly truth is the more productive route.
I could GAS about your “self-esteem”…you haven’t any. And likewise i could GAS for your “feelings”, since you should be too busy working to feed, clothe and house the 5 unnecessary mouths you brought into this world to enjoy such a luxury.
It’s those kids at the day care, or in the schools, or on the playground that come to me, with their eyes pleading for something I, and not anyone else can ever restore what was stolen from them…their daddy.
That’s whose feelings I care about.
I’m a f*ckin’ “People Person”.
Nadya isn’t lecherous. She’s just stupid!
Of Lechers
Yesterday’s report, “Of Leeches,” highlighted some notable social and political leeches. What follows is a semi-related companion piece on lechers, which word is close but would only be a cigar to Bill Clinton.
Lecher: ”a lewd, grossly sensual man”
That definiton is grossly outdated, obviously written before the recent onslaught of women, mostly teachers and mostly married, who have been preying on young boys. They could be called lecherettes, I guess, or simply sex-crazed pedophiles but for purposes of this discussion lecherous women will be lumped in with male lechers here. Also included in this study is another sub-class of the classic lecher, namely the male teenie satyr/voyeur/idiot.
Time was when female teachers–we used to call them “lady teachers,” but in many cases that adjective is inapplicable today–were matronly relics. (Many of the lady teachers of olden days resembled White House correspondent, Helen Thomas. This, I believe, is a fabricated pic of Helen wedding Ari Fleischer:)
Point is, they didn’t resemble Ms. Thomas, even in her glory days. Today, they’re generally far more attractive than Helen ever was, and far dumber. The more attractive part is a definite plus but the dumb feature has resulted in repeated instances of female teachers, many reared in the same oversexed culture as the kids they’re supposed to teach, bedding, and sometimes even wedding, underage male students.
One website titled an article, “The Big List: Female Teachers with Students,” which title didn’t give an inkling that it didn’t deal with classroom or extra help with those students but instead with one on one teaching them the nuances of sexual behavior, both off and on campus: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53859.
Those teachers and other school personnel range from the very attractive Angela Comer and Rihanna Ellis, and the infamous DeBra Fave to the positively scary Toni Lynn Woods, Alison Mosbeck, and Angela Palmer. When it comes to scoring, teenage boys aren’t known for their discretion, or taste.
That list includes more instances than I cared to count but it numbers in the dozens of females, most of whom are teachers, caught in their escapades with male minors, caught being the operative word since we don’t have any idea as to how many are not discovered.
It’s no wonder that teenies have been over-sexualized and it has become startling that Americans are startled at the sexualization of teenagers today.
Blame it on the omnipresence of the internet…
(Read the rest of this article at http://genelalor.com/.)
Drudge is reporting today that there is another woman pregnant with octoplets in LA. She used the same doctor as Nadya. I really think this guy has to be stopped!
I think people should leave Candi alone and move on. She seems to be doing a good job. What I’m focussed on is this: how can this fertility industry have run amok? Why aren’t these doctors better regulated?
“Unnecessary” Bilgeman! Who made you God? Who gave you the right to choose who is necessary and who isn`t? You talk as though men are the only ones who can rear children and turn them into proper adults. You speak as though only dads can provide for their young. Guess what? It`s the mothers who take the children to the doctors. It`s the mothers who go to the parent teacher conferences…well not unless if the wife makes him go. It`s the mother who baths them, makes them meals, cares for them when they are sick.
Throughout history it has been the mother who cares for and nutures children. Yeah men might throw around a ball once in awhile with their sons, or wrestle around with them and climb trees and teach them how to be a man. Moms do that to. It is a proven fact that mothers can raise productive children…with or without help from the “dad”.
It`s not just children born to single mothers or raised by a single parent who can turn out to be a loser as an adult. Many children who grow up in two parent households also end up on the short end.
Here is what others have to say about raising children especially sons in a single parent house as well as a two parent house:
People always “assume” that in a two parent home, both parents are somehow “capable” of actually raising a child. There are many dysfunctional two parent homes that do more damage to a child than a single family home would have.
ebonygentleman said… It definitely CAN be done, but having a positive man (not necessarily the biological dad) is a bonus.
I have to agree with “the dark angel” I grew up in a slightly dysfunctional two parent home and I have more issues than friends who were raised by a single parent. I think it takes a strong woman to raise a son but it’s not about how many people are involved it’s about what you learned from your own life and what and how you teach your children, male or female. I live in an area now where self respect is a figment of my imagination. No one seems to have any idea or realize how important it is to instill it in the children so the same vicious cycles are repeating themselves over and over. Everything is so superficial but no one really has anything, no real goals, or idea of what education can do. And when I come across young white men, they have no idea how to treat a lady, and can’t deal with one that has good self esteem and a healthy amount of self respect. It isn’t because they didn’t have a daddy it’s because Momma was too busy partying (they only exist because she was irresponsible in this) to give them about their own worth and how to relate that to the real world. So, they go on to become their fathers, absent (either physically or emotionally), leaving the same girls they were partying with to become their own mothers and it goes on and on in this fashion. It’s important to have both a male and female role model, but it’s necessary that this person be an actual parent. The biggest male influence in my own life was my cousin, he taught me everything I needed to know about men and I have a great Dad. I do feel that it is necessary early on for a boy to have that, but my brother credits our Mom with being the one to teach him the important things about being a man- he’s not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but those fundamentals (and later specifics) he learned not from our Dad who is an amazing, loving person) but from Mom.
A child spychologist said not to long ago that young boys who are raised by single moms and raised properly by her, grow up to have more respect not just for himself but for women as well. what man and /or women teaches a child makes a big difference on the outcome of their life as an adult.
To: joker, Ladylover and Ann.
I can see where you three are comming from. There are pple in here who feel only married parents should have children. They feel a child can only be raised to be proper adults if raised by two parents who are married. I feel that single parents can raise respectable adults. What I also agree with is that yes some parents, single and married do only have children so they can have the system support themselves without having the childs best interest in mind. I DO NOT condone parents, single or married doing this. This is selfish acts. Children are not to be used to get money for adults free living.
I do agree that this dr has to be stopped. a dr. was recently noted saying this ” who are we to decide how many children a women can have?” He said this in a response to a reporter asking him why he didn`t do a selective “abortion”
My respons,” Who gave that dr. the right to implant so many fertilized eggs back into a women at once. Especially knowing what the risks to mother and children were. I do not agree with abortions. I do agree with the fact that if pple are going to have children only have what you can already afford. It`s like going to the store picking out new furniture because of the amount of a check that you are expected to recieve and have not recieved it yet. It`s called spending more than you have before you have it.
We do need to work together as a society in whole to provide a better future our children. We adults need to clean up our act. The only way to not expose children to all the bad stuff that si being expoided in the world today si to keep the children lockked in the house with no computers, no t.v`s. We cannot do this. children need to get out and explore to see and learn different things. And with the way society is going children are learning more bad things than good. Yes this holds true for even two parent households.
How cna the fertility industry be running amok? Well, I think part of it is our culture of entitlement.
Boomers, who often, unwisely, delayed having kids until their late 30′s and 40′s, started using fertility doctors, to get that long-desired child. Some women, who despaired of ever meeting “Mr. Right” (whoever he is), decided to use in vitrio, to have a kid. This was hailed by feminists as female empowerment. Adoption in this country has become increasingly difficult, what with many single moms keeping their kids, and the disapproval of adoption as “child stealing” (???) Gays, especially Lesbian couples, used in vitrio, as a way of having children. In short, fertility treatments became popular with Boomers, which means they became accepted in the culture at large.
Unfortunately, this acceptance meant that questioning such a procedure meant that one was old-fashioned, intolerant or unsympathetic to parents “who just want to have a baby.” Add to this, the increasing desire for “designer” babies, and the idea (inaccurate) that genetics can accomplish anything including creating perfect human beings, doctors, fertility clinics and the like have become third partners with many moms and dads in creating life.
In short, it’s a great social mileu for some crazed, would-be Dr. Mengele to perform experiments on women, under the guise that he is doing a great service to humanity.
Definition of family:
Main Entry: 1fam·i·ly
Pronunciation: \ˈfam-lē, ˈfa-mə-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural fam·i·lies
Etymology: Middle English familie, from Latin familia household (including servants as well as kin of the householder), from famulus servant
Date: 15th century
1: a group of individuals living under one roof and usually under one head : household
2 a: a group of persons of common ancestry : clan b: a people or group of peoples regarded as deriving from a common stock : race
3 a: a group of people united by certain convictions or a common affiliation : fellowship b: the staff of a high official (as the President)
4: a group of things related by common characteristics: as a: a closely related series of elements or chemical compounds b: a group of soils with similar chemical and physical properties (as texture, pH, and mineral content) that comprise a category ranking above the series and below the subgroup in soil classification c: a group of related languages descended from a single ancestral language
5 a: the basic unit in society traditionally consisting of two parents rearing their children ; also : any of various social units differing from but regarded as equivalent to the traditional family b: spouse and children
6 a: a group of related plants or animals forming a category ranking above a genus and below an order and usually comprising several to many genera bin livestock breeding (1): the descendants or line of a particular individual especially of some outstanding female (2): an identifiable strain within a breed
7: a set of curves or surfaces whose equations differ only in parameters
8: a unit of a crime syndicate (as the Mafia) operating within a geographic area
— fam·i·ly·hood \-ˌhu̇d\ noun
Definition of parents:
Main Entry: 1par·ent
Pronunciation: \ˈper-ənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin parent-, parens; akin to Latin parere to give birth to
Date: 15th century
1 a: one that begets or brings forth offspring b: a person who brings up and cares for another
2 a: an animal or plant that is regarded in relation to its offspring b: the material or source from which something is derived c: a group from which another arises and to which it usually remains subsidiary
— parent adjective
Here’s some info. on the doctor: http://www.iranian.com/main/2009/feb/michael-kamrava
And some more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5721333.ece
Merriam-Webster dates the term back to 1947, whilst the Oxford English Dictionary has a reference to the term from 1924, thus it is relatively new, although nuclear family structures themselves date back thousands of years.[7][8] The term “nuclear” is used in its general meaning referring to a central entity around which others collect.
In its most common usage, the term “nuclear family” refers to a household consisting of a father, a mother and their children all in one household dwelling (siblings).[9] George Murdock also describes the term in this way:
The family is a social group characterized by common residence, economic cooperation and reproduction. It contains adults of both sexes, at least two of whom maintain a socially approved sexual relationship, and one or more children, own or adopted, of the sexually cohabiting adults.
Some also use the term to describe single-parent households and families in which the parents are a cohabiting, unmarried couple.
[edit] Changes to family formation
The popularity of the nuclear family in the West came about in the early 20th century, prompted in part by business practices of Henry Ford, such as the “8 hour day, $5 week”, and later the New Deal policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt. This enabled more and more families to be economically independent, and thus to own their own home.
Family arrangements in the US have become more diverse with no particular households arrangement being prevalent enough to be identified as the average.[10]Current information from United States Census Bureau shows that 70% of children in the US live in traditional two-parent families, with 60% living with their biological parents, and that “the figures suggest that the tumultuous shifts in family structure since the late 1960s have leveled off since 1990.”.[11]
If considered separate from couples without children, single parent families, or unmarried couples with children, in the United States traditional nuclear families appear to constitute a minority of households with rising prevalence of other family arrangements.
Family arrangements such as blended families, binuclear families (separated spouses marrying new spouses with children), and single-parent families are typically referred to as postmodern families.
Today nuclear families with the original biological parents constitute roughly 24.1% of households, compared to 40.3% in 1970.[10] Roughly 75% (or percent) of all children in the United States will spend at least some time in a single-parent household.
According to some sociologists, “[The nuclear family] no longer seems adequate to cover the wide diversity of household arrangements we see today.” (Edwards 1991; Stacey 1996). A new term has been introduced, postmodern family, which is meant to describe the great variablity in family forms, including single-parent families and child-free couples.”
http://www.okstate.edu/artsci/sociology/.html/24.htm. I have actually sat and read all of this. I find it interesting. Apparently they have found evidence that shows how families started as well as the family roles. They take you on a “short” trip through time. What I found fascinating was how not only families have changed but the roles each person in the family has changed…even children.
Talkinkamel, you were definately accurate about pple putting off having children until their later yrs. The smart doctors even advise women to tread lightly on having children after the age of 35. We have come to learn of the complications that can occur at a higher percentage rate after 35. I`m not saying they shouldn`t have children after 35 but they do need to be watched more closely for complications. Plus having children at a later age means the older you are and the harder it will be on your body especially when it comes to the physical aspects of parenting. Not eveyrbody is in the best of shape in their 40`s and definately not when they are older than that.
adoption is not “baby stealing” and it shouldn`t be considered as such. I do know that in the past pple have actualy sold their babies. that i do not agree with. with adoption you are paying for all medical expenses to have a child. It`s no different than if you were having the baby yourself. The medical expenses are still there and they still need to be paid. the only difference is the baby is in another women. You are not paying the women or couple for the baby.
#153 candi:
“”Unnecessary” Bilgeman! Who made you God? Who gave you the right to choose who is necessary and who isn`t? You talk as though men are the only ones who can rear children and turn them into proper adults. You speak as though only dads can provide for their young.”
Well-well…look who’s argued herself in a circle!
Remember when you showed up here and said this?:
“85. candi:
to:talkinkamel
i have read your statement on feb10 @9:51 a.m. and a child or children do not need a father to grow up properly and to become productive citizens and to stay out of crime.”
Contrary to what you might LIKE to believe, I’ve always maintained that children need BOTH of their parents.
You, my little dullard, are the one who popped in and informed us all that fathers aren’t needed, that a single mother can do it all.
And your chidren weren’t necessary.
There is a thing called contraception, you might have heard about it.
Just out of curiousity, why DID you have all 5 of them?
Why DIDN’t you use contraceptives?
Thanks for links to the pictures of Michaal Kamrava, TalkinKamel. Is it just me, or does this guy look like Dr.Evil?
Bilgeman, do you really think children were necessary for a fisherman to have? Real fishermen are gone for days at a time. Not to mention a fisherman who finally comes home and has to leave the family again to go out and be a “pple person” because he doesn`t like to drink alone. While youre gone who is taking care of your children and wife? Why did you have children?
To answer your question, I did not want 5. I wanted 4. I was on contraceptive when i became pregnant while taking it. Why do you think I took the next best thing to children control. I wanted children, not because i thought they were cute, not because everybody else was having them. I had my children because I enjoy being with children. I enjoy teaching them. I enjoy being there to not just watch them grow but to help them develope and grow. To help them with their dreams and to make it come real. I know being a teacher would have given me this opportunity but being a mom or a dad gives you the ability to work with children around the clock and not just during school hours. It gives you a chance to help them develope their minds and their full potential.
A child is not just our future or who we are they help make us who we are. They open our eyes to the things that we normally would not see. They show us that not everybody in the world are mean, rotten pple. All children are the innocense that we adults lose when we get older. What would the world be today if it consisted of only adults? No children smiling. No childs laughter? They do make us more understanding, more accepting.
You said you had a miracle 6 month baby. Am i accurate to assume that your child was born prematurely? think of that child. Think of all your children. How have they helped you become a better person? Without your children how would your life be? Children do add stress and they can complicate things. But children also bring joy and peace. They bring this not only into a home but into the world. Without them life would end. People would stop caring.
Children did not make the world the way it is today. We adults did. Children ask for peace, they ask for forgiveness, they ask to make the world a better place. To many times what children have to say falls on deaf ears. On ears of those who strongly believe that children should not be heard. Unfortunately it`s hard for a child to understand why pple fight. They don`t understand why there are wars and pple killing each other. All they want is for all that to stop. they want everybody to get along. They want the world to be filled with love and happiness. It is those children who grow up with parents who use them to get a free ride in life and are not brought up with strong beliefs, who are never parised for a job well done, that fall through the cracks and become societies nightmares as adults.
You can disagree with me all you want but children are innocent. They did not ask for any of the problems, nor have they asked to be a part of it. Children hold the key to our future. All we have to do is listen.
Bilgeman, I would like to challenge you. rather i would like for you to challenge yourself and your children. Find a topic, it can be environmental, political, or whatever you choose. Talk to your children about it. Give your children the facts. Ask your children for their opinions on that topic. Ask them how they might do things differently if they were adults. Ask them what they could do not just as a child but as an adult to make the situation better. A good one for you would be fishing. Ask your children how they can help preserve the ocean and all that live in it. From my understanding the coral reef barrier has slowed down it`s growth considerably. Ask them how the disappearance of the great barrier reef could effect your fishing. Ask them how and why. Debate with them. Make them explain their answers to you.
Doing this strengthens childrens minds. It gives them knowledge. It helps them learn how to become problem solvers as adults. Most of all it makes them feel important and it gives you something to do as family. Something constructive. It builds there self esteem and it makes them want to work toward being able to grow up to help and to do something about it. It gives them a goal to work toward.
#183 candi
Now you’re just making stuff up.
Either that or your reading comprehension is so low that you really have no business here at the grown-ups’ table.
Run along with your life, little bastard-maker.
I’m sure there’s a dirty diaper somewhere for you to attend to…or there soon will be.
Annie, all he needs to complete the portrait is to be holding a giant, hairless cat.
Candi, I’m puzzled; why is it so necessary for bilgeman to discuss the Great Barrier Reef with his children? And how do you know he doesn’t discuss things with his children?
As for sociologists. . . the rise of the so-called “postmodern” family has coincided with the rise of crime, teen pregnancy, gangs, and other social disorders. I’m not a big believer in coincidences; I think this is connected.
I also think that “everyone” who told you to work on your “relationship” with an irresponsible man who fathered five children with you, but didn’t marry you, have a lot to answer for. They should have encouraged you to study, and become a teacher.
Talkinkamel. I didn`t mean he had to talk to his children about the great barrier reef. I just threw that in there since he said he was a fisherman. Any topic can be discussed. Just about everything in todays world has it`s pros and cons. What I was trying to imply is that it`s important for children to get involved. And we as parents need to talk to them, discuss with them about the things in our world. Who knows maybe your son or daughter may have already come up with an idea to make recycling more effective. When we adults die, we don`t just leave behind this planet for them. We leave them with all the problems as well.
Bilgeman. You left yourself wide open with what you had said in an earlier post. I was being nice by not saying the things that i could have said. I myself have found you to be a waste of time. You do not like pple who are different than you. You do not like women who stand up to you. That`s all fine. Just remember, You are not a perfect person. Nobody is perfect. And no I was not making things up and no I do not have a reading comprehension problem. I obviously hit a sore spot. It is also clear that all you can do is name call and put pple down. That`s real mature of you. It`s attitudes like that, that is passed from one to another. From parent to child. I can only guess what you are teaching children.
Why don`t you run along. I don`t drink so there for I would be of no use to you.
#168 candi:
“And no I was not making things up and no I do not have a reading comprehension problem.”
Oh, really?
“I just threw that in there since he said he was a fisherman.”
Where did I say that?
Here’s what I said:
“I’m a seaman, toots,”
So, in your addled little mind, you automatically assume that I’m a fisherman…probably because all you know of life and work at sea is from watching “The Deadliest Catch”.
And BTW, in my present gig, it’s 28 dyas on the vessel, and 28 days off. When I was sailing “Blue Water”, the LEAST I could expect to be gone was for 2 months…and it was usually 4 months.
But there was as much time off as there was on.
And now you’re an expert…
“You do not like pple who are different than you. You do not like women who stand up to you.”
More of your extrapolative twaddle…I just don’t like you.
” I obviously hit a sore spot.”
Hmmm, if sore spots were hit, I think I’m the one who did the hittin’ snookums.
Or do you think that I don’t have a pretty good idea what was behind all those breathless questions about my realtionship with my wife?
You were rejected, and in a big way…here you were 5 months along and Bobo the Stud-Man was tappin’ some other floozie.
Gee that musta hurt…because you’ve obviously got that chip the size of Gibraltar sitting on your shoulder.
What my wife and my child have, you and your bastards will NEVER have…a husband and a father.
“It is also clear that all you can do is name call and put pple down.”
I told you I’m a f*ckin’ People Person, didn;t I?
And it’s a great teaching tool…a little more “Drill Instructor” than most people are used to, but it DOES work for most.
(And I learned it from the genuine articles).
“I can only guess what you are teaching children.”
Germane to this discussion, it can be summed up in two sentences:
“Wedding rings first, THEN babies, you dummy!
Don’t be a ‘candi’!”
#168 candi:
Just one more…couldn’t pass this one up!
You babbled:
“That`s real mature of you.”
Let’s talk “mature”, precious.
Does this sound mature?
” I did not want 5. I wanted 4. I was on contraceptive when i became pregnant while taking it. Why do you think I took the next best thing to children control. I wanted children, not because i thought they were cute, not because everybody else was having them. I had my children because I enjoy being with children.”
That was you, toots.
You WANTED children…and by God, you GOT ‘em.
No matter that they were left without a father in what could most charitably be described as half a home.
You got what YOU wanted, starting at 17 years old with more eggs in your ovaries than brains in your head…and that’s all that really mattered, wasn’t it?
Mature of you, candi-lass, very mature.
As noted in one of my other comments, I was young and i made mistakes. You have no idea what it is like to be 17 and pregnant. You made it sound like I intentionally got pregnant at that age. I was going to give him up for adoption since an abortion was out of the question. My parents had no idea that I had considered adoption. I had plans and goals. I didn`t want anyone or anything to get in the way of them. Now keep in mind that my parents had no idea about the adoption thing, when one night my mom and I had a discussion. She had heard on the news about a child who was killed by his parents. A child that they so much wanted and they had adopted him becasue they couldn`t have children of their own. Fear set in. So many questions ran through my mind.
Youre wrong about the husband and father thing. Youre how old and you still haven`t learned not to tell pple what they can and can`t do. I think that a single mother or father who goes into a relationship expecting or looking for a mommy or a daddy for their child(ren) is wrong. When you go into a realtionship their needs to be something more on the agenda. Such as looking for a lifelong partner. If you go into a relationship with that one thing on your mind then you will miss out on the other good stuff that the other party has to offer to the realtionship. Marriage isn`t just about kids.
I would also like to remind you that as noted in a previous comment that i have been this a good man for several yrs. waht i did not note was that he loves my children and he wants take them on as his. We are do to get married…yes I have the ring. I`m not ready for him to help witih the financial part of things. That i had also noted ealier. when you do things on your own for awhile it`s hard to accept help. Like I had also mentioned ealier these children are mine. They are my responsability, not his. I do realize that when he becomes their step dad that they wil beocme his responsability as well. Thats what he keeps telling me. He also said i need to release some of my control over to him. I need to let him help in all areas. He said I am to strong willed and independant.
No I do not watch “The Deadliest Catch”. That show has no significants to us. If we want fish, we catch our own. We don`t need to pay someone to do the work that we can do ourselves. If we needed to have someone do our work for us then I am better off calling this contractor who has a sign on his van that reads “we fix what your hubby fixed”.
Now if you will excuse me I need to call the realator about a bigger house I had found. We are trying to prepare for future grandchildren. Well not just that. We want to buy as much land as we can so we can have it to pass on to the family when we die.
#171 candi:
“As noted in one of my other comments, I was young and i made mistakes.”
Well now, that’s not the way you sounded in your first post, is it?
You were all “A-OK”, and you didn’t need a man…yadda-yadda-yadda.
This beggars the questions of what mistakes you made that you are now admitting to?
Can I hazard a guess that you got what you childishly wanted, and then realized that it wasn’t everything you thought it would be?
“When you go into a realtionship their needs to be something more on the agenda. Such as looking for a lifelong partner. If you go into a relationship with that one thing on your mind then you will miss out on the other good stuff that the other party has to offer to the realtionship. Marriage isn`t just about kids.”
I do so enjoy your fascinating lectures on relationships and especially on marriage.
I’VE been married to the same woman for over ten years…YOU’VE been married for how long?
“You made it sound like I intentionally got pregnant at that age”
So your birth control didn’t work, (which news we had to drag out of you, by the way, it wasn’t mentioned in your first posting), and you didn’t abort, and you were dissuaded from the adoption route on the basis of one news article and a discussion with your mother.
Okay…sounds plausible…in a dumb 17-year-old kinda way.
But then you had, in the same paragraph, said this:
“I had plans and goals. I didn`t want anyone or anything to get in the way of them.”
Again, you don’t really seem to know if you’re coming or you’re going, y’know?
And this leads into the issue of the NEXT FOUR pregnancies.
Making one mistake is regrettable, but understandable. Making FOUR more with the same fellow, “Bobo the Extraordinarily Virile”, is an utter farce.
” waht i did not note was that he loves my children and he wants take them on as his. We are do to get married…yes I have the ring.”
Well, it seems then that for all your twaddle, you might kinda like to have a guy around.
Best wishes for you and congratulations to him, (btw, he has kids, right? So he’ll be getting experienced day-care for ‘em from the union).
“He said I am to strong willed and independant.”
That’s one way of putting it…”Stupid and Pig-headed” would be another way.
Whose phrase sounds like something you’d read in a womens’ magazine that was trying to sell you clothes and cosmetics?
I’m not trying to sell you anything, or get anything from you.
“If we want fish, we catch our own. We don`t need to pay someone to do the work that we can do ourselves.”
Yeah, well…good luck with the King Crabbing.
Dress warm.
My oldest was an ooops, the middle three was not. The last one I got pregnant with while on birth control. Yes a single parent can raise a productive child or children on their own. No I do not regret having my children. If I had it all to do over again, I would. My first child may have been a mistake but he is the best mistake I have made. So I had to change my plans and my goals, so what. Back then it may have seemed like a big deal but it didn`t take me long to see it as being well worth it.
No he does not have children. We won`t and don`t need daycare. Who said anything about king crab? I don`t allow shell fish in the house. I have a child who is allergic to it.
#173 candi:
“Who said anything about king crab?”
No one, it’s not important. Put it out of your mind.
You’ve been a most entertaining little troll, thanks ever SO much for playing…
As a Consolation Prize, we have for you a year’s supply of Turtle Wax.
(You don’t wax turtles with it, you use it on your car.)
Good day.
Candi, when summing up a potential mate, I think considering what sort of mother or father this person would make is, actually, important! Unless both of you have been sterilized, children are a likely result of marriage. that’s part of being a “lifetime partner”. If you’re going to tie the knot, it’s no longer all about you, and your relationship (whatever that means; even if you never had children, marriage isn’t about being in constant date/romance mode).
Good rule of thumb—if someone you’re dating wouldn’t make a good mom or dad, they probably won’t make a good husband or wife, either.
Again, I think this displays our society’s contempt for kids. Kids, and commitment, are unimportant, non-demanding, non-binding things, you can pay attention to when you’re not doing something really important, such as focusing on romantic relationships. If a man is irresponsible, feckless and an absent father—well, you’re relationship with him is still more important than trying to create a stable home for your kids (that seems to be our society’s attitude). If a woman’s bright, or has plans for her future—well, if that all-important relationship with that all-important male comes up, she’d better just drop her plans. HE’s the importnat one, and the relationship with him is the all-important question here—not the kids, not the unmarried girl; HIM!
Such is the world progressives, and feminists, have given us.
There is an interesting article on the NYTimes website (in the health section), about the health of babies and children born as the result of IVF. Apparently these children are in some cases, somewhat more likely, and in other cases, much more likely, to develop certain kinds of cancer and to have certain disabilities. This makes sense; some scientists think that this may be because of the chemical bath that the fertilized eggs lie in before they are transplanted into the woman. I think this means that there is another dimension of ethics to contemplate when you think that the likehood of a baby conceived by IVF might have one of these genetic mutations plus being born as part of a pack of multiples-when you think about all of this, it makes you think that it will be great luck if even half of these poor little things are “normal”-I mean physically and mentally, of course, not character-wise. Again, I really have to think that this fertility doctor is if not legally, morally at fault in this case. (I also read about him that he’s been sued for malpractice 5 times). I’m not letting the octomom off the hook, but I have to say that I think she’s a bit nutty-and the doc should have figured that out.
Annie, I suspect he did figure it out, and decided to go ahead anyway—somebody was obviously paying for this, and he probably wanted the money. Also, I suspect he also gets a Frankensteinish sort of thrill implanting multiple embryos in women. This is the kind of thing we’re going to face again and again as this sort of technique becomes more accepted, and more pefected, the traditional family falls apart and socity encourages women to reproduce this way.
Remember, up until now, it’s been usually accepted that these sort of fertility treatments are good, and empowering for women, and that anyone who questions the morality of them, in any way, is either a religiouis fanatic or a Republican. Some doctors have even been sued when they refused to, say, implant embryos in a Lesbian couple, who wanted to start a family. Even if a doctor wants to refuse this sort of treatment, for whatever reason, he faces the danger of being sued, and might lose his practice.
Candi, I don’t understand; is your intended the father of your kids, or somebody else? Because if he’s the father, he’s not going to be the stepdad at all. And I thought you said your kids’ father did have a baby by somebody else.
Annie, problem is, when crazy woman meets crazy doctor, what’s likely to result is—craziness. There are few road blocks, at present, set up to prevent this sort of in vitrio abuse, and it’s going to be hard to clamp down on it, legally.
Talkinkamel, The man I am seeing is not the childrens father. Yes the childrens father does have a daughter with someone else. We are guessing he may have more than mine and this other child. The man I am with now is very protective of the children. If there biological father wants to be a part of the childrens lives again it won`t be allowed. Not until he cleans himself up.
Annie, the studies also show that prematurity is on the rise. What not all studies show is that the multiple birth rate has also increased.
Bilgeman, you said good “luck with the king crabbing”. I know what turtle wax is and I know what it is used for. Hey if youre offering to supply the yrs worth send it on over. It`s not the stuff I use on my truck but I`m pretty sure I can find someone who will use it. Actually what I would prefer is RainX. You know the stuff you put on windows to help the rain bead up and run so you can see better while driving. It works really well with the Rainx wiper blades.
Talkinkamel, I have heard of foreign “doctors” practicing here in the us (illegaly). Some i guess from what I have heard and read have documents showing they are legal, which to find out the documents were forgeries. I`m wondering how ligit this dr.s papers are. What do you think?
Another strange dimension to this story is that the doctor is Iranian and the octomomm is at least half Iraqui.
This woman should not be supported with gifts or donations. Let her see how much fun it is to be supported by welfare. There will be no money for French-tip nails or plastic surgery and she will be exhausted.
To give her anything only will encourage other unbalanced women to have litters.
The State of CA should: 1) Investigate and sue the doctor for the cost of her hospitalization. 2) Investigate Suleman’s disability claims for fraud and make her repay the money. 3) Put an injunction against her for any payments she gets for speaking, publications, books, media, etc. until the hospital bill is paid off. 4) Send CPS to the home on a weekly unplanned visit to assure that the children are safe. 5) Remove the children from the home and put them all up for adoption. 6) Have Suleman examined for mental stability. 7) Investigate the legality of using student loans to pay for support of 14 children.
She should sell a few of her kids to science and take that money and help her mother pay the 10 month over due mortgage. People like this and who let this happen are the reason mankind will not survive another 100 years. Unless we start eating the homeless. Eww.
Also, I think that we should discuss the theory of ‘licences’ for allowing people/couples to have kids, at least for people who are being taken care of by the government, etc…
Updates: Sandlers, Octoparents, Global Frauding
The Sandlers vs. The Truth: Herb and Marion Sandler gave Bernie Madoff a run for his money in the fraud sweepstakes. Their Pick-A-Pay bizarre mortgage products at Golden West Financial Corporation suckered untold thousands of people into purchasing houses they could ill afford then they unloaded the bad paper on Wachovia Bank just in time to escape unscathed before the mortgage debacle exploded and flushed Wachovia down the banking sewer. (See “The Sandlers’ Dirty Hands . . .” http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=726.)
Belatedly, the Sandlers’ predatory practices are now being investigated by the U.S. Attorney’s Office in San Francisco. As this article on AmericanThinker.com suggests, they may beat any charges that could result, given their connections and lavish contributions to the Democratic Party: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/02/will_herb_and_marion_sandler_p.html.
The case may represent a vivid example of how far money, power, and influence can take you in the new transparent Obama administration given the Sandlers’ generosity to Obama’s campaign. We could soon discover whether the rich are truly different from the rest of us rabble. Stay tuned here for more updates as they occur.
The Octomom vs. The Octodad: Nadya Suleman, who has proven that Mother Nature cares not a whit as to who reproduces, denies claims by an octodad-wannabe that he was the biological sperm donor for her brood. (See “Of Leeches” http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=830)
A former beau, being kept under wraps by ABC until he exits his closet Monday on “Good Morning America” on Monday, has stepped up to the plate and announced that he is the probable daddy: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/WomensHealth/story?id=6928821&page=1. He contends he thrice accompanied octomom to the clinic where she underwent in vitro fertilization.
Mr. Anonymous now wants a paternity test, apparently thinking that if he comes out the DNA winner, his “donations” will be in great demand and he could establish his own little cottage industry at home in the privacy and comfort of his own bathroom.
Meanwhile, mother of fourteen, Nadya, contends that Mr. Anonymous is out of the running…
(Read the rest of this article at http://genelalor.com/.)