When a Zero Tolerance Policy Makes Zero Sense
In the meantime, the story got out: Mike Rosen of the Rocky Mountain News and KOA radio talked about it on his morning talk show. It was covered on the local TV news and before long it was getting a lot of attention. It was even a story on Fox News’ “Grapevine” and members of the Colorado Senate were taking an interest.
I spoke to one of them, Colorado State Senator Kevin Lundberg, about the issue. Lundberg agreed that this was a place where the law needed to be changed and that it was his intention to introduce a bill early this week to resolve the question. “We’re not trying to take the teeth out of this law, but to simply give it some common sense.”
Then things started to happen. Morrow’s hearing on February 20 was rescheduled to Thursday, February 12, at 8 a.m. By Friday, she was notified that she would be “expelled” for time served — back in classes on Wednesday, two days before her original hearing was even scheduled.
All’s well that ends well, then, right? For Marie Morrow, apparently so: she’ll be back in school and she’s been assured that this won’t prevent her from accepting an appointment to the Merchant Marine Academy, for which she already has the necessary recommendations. All it cost was, well, days off from school, legal fees, and, I’m sure, a couple of rough days and sleepless nights.
Of course, without the press and public attention, it could have turned out rather differently.
And imagine: without the zero tolerance law, we’d be putting our school administrations in the position of needing to actually think: “Is this a real threat?” Or “this is a good kid and a prop gun; there’s no reason to get excited about it.”
Oh, and one more thing: under the current law, if Marie Morrow were a member of the school’s Junior ROTC, it would have been different: they can carry prop rifles. See, if it’s a school group, they’re no longer frightening facsimiles of deadly weapons.
This is what happens when the bottom of the “educated” pit end up as school administrators. Unfortunately, the sludge at the bottom has become thicker year by year, the drains are plugged and we are left with a preponderance of this species of non-thinking, illogical parasite to live off the taxpayer….and support the Dems.
My wife read me a story off of the internet tonight about a woman who had a picture of herself on her facebook page, holding a gun, and the school she worked for *fired* her as a result. She was reinstated once the story was publicized, but that’s not the point. Who thinks this stuff is a good idea in the first place? Is there some ideologue somewhere insisting that children should be kept safe from even imitating soldiers, for fear they should become one themselves someday, or some silliness like that? The articles always explain everything away as if there was no choice, but in the above article the author makes it clear that if the school had decided the toy guns weren’t reasonable facsimiles, nothing would have happened. Someone’s an idiot here.
“The hearing is held before an “independent hearing officer” who must first of all determine if it really is a reasonable facsimile of a weapon; the hearing officer could find it didn’t meet the burden of mandating expulsion. Otherwise, they were required by law to expel the student…”
There was clearly wiggle room for common sense if, under the circumstances, the authorities has cared to use it. This kind of lack of common sense is how our so-called “Stimulas” bill just got passed, without adequate time for the majority of legislators to read it. The Aurora school incident is exemplary of the national mental illness which has been slowly inculcated by the liberal-left and the Democrat Pary…
Mr Martin:
“For Marie Morrow, apparently so: she’ll be back in school and she’s been assured that this won’t prevent her from accepting an appointment to the Merchant Marine Academy, for which she already has the necessary recommendations.”
I hope she has a cast-iron stomach.
By all accounts, the grub at King’s Point sucks.
And she’ll feel right at home on the “Gun-Free Zones” that is a US-flag vessel.
Even on MSC-contracted ships, the officers are so terrified of being sued that if the ships are attacked, I doubt they would ever even issue the onboard weapons.
And if, by some miracle, they DO issue them, they might find that the rifles aren’t zeroed.
(Trying to adjust for elevation and windage is rather problematic when your rounds are impacting on the ocean).
This is what happens when the left and their knee-jerk reactions meet situations like school shootings. Nevermind the fact that these zero-tolerance laws STILL would not have prevented it.
I have read about elementary school children being suspended for DRAWING a picture of a gun! Pure craziness.
Keep in mind also that Colorado is that shining place on the hill in which pet owners are no longer called pet owners: they are called pet guardians, in the same tone as one might identify a child’s legal guardian.
Of course, the same bunch that designed that brilliance are pro-abortion.
Animals move toward human rights while humans are treated like animals. If you haven’t read Romans 1 recently, you should.
These last two paragraphs may sound a little off topic, but they rise from same polluted nonsense and nonthinking that creates the “suspension for lumber gun” crap.
DavidN, the teacher was from here in Wis. I don’t know where she teaches, but it was not Milwaukee or Madison (our two state political mental institutions) so probably half her students know how to shoot or at least grew up with guns at home. In the small town I grew up in, pop. 1000, back in the 60′s, guys would go duck hunting before school and put their shotguns in their hall lockers. I can hear heads exploding already. We had one murder in 125 years, an elderly lady was beaten to death about 30 yrs ago and crime remains unsolved.
Guns, like cars and all tools, are as safe as the people using them. People who mis-use them, for crime, drunken driving etc. shouls be dealt with by the courts. But this zero tolerance has reached the point of paranoia. Most of the guys I know would have been thrown out of grade school today for what we drew in class.
Our Founders were very specific about the role of firearms. The 2nd amendment is not about armies and defending the nation. That is dealt with in the body of the Constitution. The amendment speaks to “a free society”, two different concepts. Defending the Nation is the job of government, defending the Society from an internal tyranny is the duty of the people in that society. As Franklin replied to a woman who asked “What sort of government have you given us?” “A republic, Madam, if you can keep it.”
Definitely an example of problems following the letter of the law rather than its spirit. Mandatory sentences take out any thinking and undermine the entire justice system.
Then again I’m old fashion and carried a pocket knife to school. A knife is just too useful of a tool not to have.
Zero tolerance laws do away with the need to conduct messy thinking about the facts of a case, which brings to mind Edison’s quote:
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
I was on our Junior ROTC drill team for two years in high school. We carried sabres. They weren’t sharp on the edges but the points were quite sharp and we could’ve easily ran someone through with them. Having such scary implements today would make me a criminal.
1959 vs 2009
Scenario 1:
Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck’s gun rack.
1959 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2009 – School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.
Scenario 2:
Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
1959 – Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2009 – Police called and SWAT team arrives — they arrest both Johnny and Mark. They are both charged them with assault and both expelled even though Johnny started it.
Scenario 3:
Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students.
1959 – Jeffrey sent to the Principal’s office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2009 – Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. He becomes a zombie. He is then tested for ADD. The school gets extra money from the state because Jeffrey has a disability.
Scenario 4:
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt and Billy pays for the window by working it off.
1959 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman.
2009 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. The state psychologist is told by Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself, and their dad goes to prison. Billy’s mom has an affair with the psychologist.
Scenario 5:
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1959-Mark shares his aspirin with the Principal out on the smoking dock
2009-The police are called and Mark is expelled from school for drug violations. His car is then searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario 6:
Pedro fails high school English.
1959-Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college. He becomes a successful engineer.
2009-Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files a class action lawsuit against the state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. Pedro’s English teacher is fired. English is then banned from the core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway, but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Scenario 7:
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.
1959 -Ants die.
2009 -ATF, Homeland Security and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates his parents — and all siblings are removed from their home, and all computers are confiscated. Johnny’s dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly on airlines again.
Scenario 8:
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1959 -In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2009 -Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.
Adam. Excellent post. But you forgot ending to #3.
A few years later Jeffery walks into classroom with pistol, kills four students before turning gun on himself. Neighbors say he was a qiet kid.
The 2nd Amendment does not apply.
There is no constitutional right to bear lumber — only weapons!
Is it any wonder that we have raised a generation of blithering idiots? This is just the beginning of the biggest crackup in recent history. All common sense has departed from all levels of “authority.”
The most idiotic thing about all this is where the guns were found: in her car. If you really want to save the lives of students, raise the driving age to 18 and ban students from driving to school.
My daughter was severely reprimanded for bringing a toy rifle to school to be used in her elementary school play about America’s move west. It was to be used by Daniel Boone and a teacher had asked her to bring it. She was not suspended and I had a chat with the principal. You’ve heard the term ‘head explodes’? Everyone from the bus driver to the office staff was crazed. And they handled that plastic rifle like it was a live grenade with the pin pulled.
How much of a mark would a ‘parade rifle’ cause if you swung it upside these nitwit administrators’ heads?
When I was in the Cadets in the UK 25 years ago we used to drill with No.4 Mk I SMLEs, except for the poor bugger who had to carry the 23lb Bren. Every now and again we’d toddle off to the range to give them a workout, or off to the woods to shoot blanks at each other, and good clean fun (well, filthy, occasionally) it was . That’s right. Teenagers with machine guns and bolt-action centrefire rifles that they sometimes, horror of horrors, actually used! But what about the CHILDREN? Why won’t anyone think of the CHILDREN? Well, do you know, to this day not one of us has gone on a killing spree in a mall, desensitised to violence from the emotional agony of pointing a long object at a target and making it go bang. I keep wondering when my PTSD will kick in.
This reminds me of a news article I read a few years ago, same zero-tolerence crap. A HS senior honor student was suspended and expelled less than two weeks before graduation because a knife was discovered in her car.
Turns out that over the weekend, she was being the considerate granddaughter she was raised to be and had helped her grandmother move from a large house to a more manageable smaller apartment, and during the move a butter knife… A BUTTER KNIFE!… fell out of a box and landed on the floor next to the passenger seat. When a security guard noticed it, the school when into virtual lockdown until the owner of the car could be located and properly dealt with.
When it was pointed out to the administrators that it was simply a butter knife, not even sharp, and that the honor student was not even AWARE it was in her car, they fell back on the zero-tolerance policy and that they had “no choice” in expelling her.
As a result, this girl had to spend another six months to earn a GED, since the school refused to giver her a diploma, she lost her scholarship to college and had to start, basically, from scratch.
Someone explain how this is supposed to be BETTER for society?
There is a lesson being taught here that the smart kids are learning. Our “leaders” are idiots. Government schools are designed to turn out mindless little citizens to sit down, shut up, and take orders from their elected officials.
Bubba I was picking up my grandson at the local elementary school and the fellow behind me tapped my bumper we got out to exchange views peacefully and check damage then when the school traffic leader came back out we tried to explain what happened she screamed something about no yelling which we weren’t and called on her radio for a LOCKDOWN.
I told the principle that it seems the schools traffic manager had forgotten one very important fact, I had been the one struck on school grounds while she was off her post.
I got my grandson and left.
Nothing new in this. During the 90′s I taught Honors and AP chemistry in an Urban intercity school. I fought hard to get all the minorities to take these classes as counselors were not recommending they take them. One year a Hispanic girl who was enrolled, one of my top students,got suspended for one of these zero tolerance rules. She was wearing some boots that evidently skin head gangs favored in the area. I argued until I was blue in the face with the administrators but to no avail she received a 5-day suspension. I could relate a thousand tales of ignorance and stupidity propagated by supposedly “well educated” professionals.
Other great examples of ZT stupidity can be found at;
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=365
Peter, I remember that story, too. There have been many others like it. About ten yrs. ago my daughter took my mini-van to school without asking me. In the back, in full view of anyone who looked, was my Model 1860 Army Colt .44 revolver and holster. Luckily no one saw it, but daughter got chewed out for not checking the van first.
I’m sure whackjobs all over the world are now in the midst of some “Lord of the Flies” nightmare only they could conceive of.
David, can’t get image of someone toddling with a Bren out of my mind.
I’m afraid most of us grew up in saner times. Our elders taught us respect for ourselves and those around us. Most of us didn’t get too far out of line because we knew their would be a price to pay. As Kipling wrote “If you can keep your head when others about you are losing theirs.” Looks like we are losing that capability.
one poster described the “drill rifles as “lumber”, that’s an accurate description. unlike the “deactivated” rifles formerly carried by colour guards in parades they bear no resemblance to a real rifle, as anyone with even a passing familiarity with real firearms would see at a glance. the hysterical reaction of the school administration was completely unwarranted and should be censured.
Well, Thank god I am a School Administrator in Nevada, we have some sane legislators here, we sent the others to the feds. When Billy Clinton’s Gun Free Schools Act was passed (the source of this zero tolerance policy) a Nevada Legislator decide that a good kid should not be suspended or expelled for idiotic reasons and they passed law creating the offence “Weapon(s)- Non Stat”. This allows me a lot of leeway in handling weapons.
Example 1: Joey went hunting over the weekend and left his skinning tools in his backpack and brings them to school, people see them and report it. I investigate and find out he never took them out of the backpack and indeed did go hunting and forget to take them out. I call parents and they come over and pick up the tools and Joey spends the day with me in detention for forgetting to check his backpack before coming to school. Dad or Mom likely imposes a much higher level of punishment.
Example 2: Marie drives to school with the Drill Team’s Rifles in her car, filled m-14s here, and they are spotted before she can take them to the shooting ranger, yes we have rifle teams on campus. I will go out see that they are the Drill Team’s and then make sure she gets them to the proper area, and go back to dealing with girl crap and rumors.
Example 3: as above but Marie is pointing one of the rifles at students and saying” I’m gonna get you” I will then suspend her to a hearing and asked for her to attend a school for bad kids, and not come back to my school.
Basically, if you have something you are not threatening people with and it is not a working firearm, including airsoft etc. I do not have to suspend if I do not want to. It is all about intent including the intent “to just mess with some people”
Piper
Range not Ranger..I hate mistakes in my posts
sorry
“Zero tolerance, ” = zero sense, zero discresion and zero brains.
Back when I was in second grade, about 1963, I brought a live 37mm anti tank round to school for show and tell. No, I don’t know why my old man had it except as a WWII souvenir. Well when I took out that round in front of class my teacher, also a WWII vet, calmly took it from me and had the principle keep it. At the end of the day they gave it back to me before I got on the bus and said not to bring it back. Too many people seem to think that firearms have the power to load themselves (auto loader?) and start shooting.
With some exceptions, we are turning into a nation of candy ass wimps.
ADAM: 1959 VS 2009 Was funny, but sadly all are very possible scenarios. Now my question: What if the kids are Muslims, or members of so called “minority groups” do they get a pass because of fear of discrimination law suits?
Gun free school policies OR zero tolerance would NOT have prevented a single one of the school shooting incidents. Armed teachers would have!
Wiredog: I remember a kid bringing a gun into school in the 70s for something similar — it was brought into the office to verify that the firing pin had been removed, and they handed it back to him.
I don’t suppose that anyone has pointed out to the security police at this school that a TIRE IRON is an effective weapon. But then again, so is a car.
Lock ‘em all up.
God help us.
31. bobdog wrote:
I don’t suppose that anyone has pointed out to the security police at this school that a TIRE IRON is an effective weapon.
Peter writes: SHHH!!! If you point it out, they might start think about it and star agreeing with you! Next thing you know, they ban pens and pencils (because they are pointy and sharp), books (because pages can cause paper cuts) and chalk (because it can be thrown and knock someone’s eye out)!
Zero Tolerance is just a way to protect the administrator’s behinds if something does happen- they’re not afraid of the incidents happening, they’re afraid of the lawyers who will swarm after the incident like sharks who smell blood in the water….
Thanks for all the comments,everyone. let me make a couple of points, though. First, I don’t think it’s quite fair to put a lot of blame on the school’s staff — oh, the principal, maybe, as he/she could have handled it by saying “grow up kids, those don’t look like real guns” and then quietly warned Morrow to make sure they were hidden in the trunk or something. But the law is pretty definite about what must be done once someone says they look like real guns, and very broad about what “looks like” might mean.
Now, once the wheels were turning, they were following the procedure the law required, with the usual diligence and compassion that any school shows, ie, suspending her for 10 days, but then setting the hearing at or past the end of the ten days, guaranteeing that she would miss plenty of school time.
Of course, once the matter became known and phone calls were being made, things did change — in fact, if I have the timeline right, Tustin Amole was still telling me the hearing would be on Friday, either the night before, or the night of, the day the hearing was actually held. Whereupon the hearing and the school superintendant put her back in school on the next day of classes (yesterday was a holiday and as I understand it today was a “teacher work day.”) So the whole school administration behaved rationally — followed the law and did their best to cover their asses.
The real fault here is the zero-tolerance law itself, passed in the hysterics after the Columbine High incident, and done to look good, not to make sense.
At least this may, with luck, get the law changed to hae some common sense.
I have ZERO tolerance for tax increases………
Zero tolerance is the result of the abandonment of common sense. Common sense is what you use to tell the difference between a good kid who forgot to remove his pocket knife and a vengeful kid looking to cut someone. It is the same thing that occurs with airport security – you cannot use a profile method (like looking for a young male with certain odd behaviors and a one-way ticket)
Common sense is how you get sued. Every time you allow people to make a judgment, you must accept that they will get it wrong a certain percentage of the time, even if they are diligent. Just like in my profession of industrial safety, people really want to take the human out of the loop. Use a regulation, and do not deviate from it – even when it doesn’t make sense. Regulatory compliance is full of cases like this. “It is not about whether you agree with the rule, you are paid to enforce the rule.”
The problem with this mentality is that it can end up with an unjust or less safe situation where the bureaucracy functions exactly as designed without accomplishing its task.
#14 Paul from Hamburg – Sorry, gotta disagree with you. The last thing I want is someone out on their own at 18 getting their first taste of freedom and responsibility at the same time. I want kids to learn responisibility while still with parents who will punish them for misbehavior.
Yes, I know about mortality rates, but that will not change if they’re learning at 18 instead of 16. They’ll be just as emotionally stunted then. I think the worst law ever passed was denying kids the right to work until they’re 16. Anyone who grows up working from an earlier age ends up with his head on straight. This waiting-until-they’re-older is just nonsense. You actually have to start them when they’re younger.
When I was young, farmboys could get their license to drive at 14, allowing to drive the farm vehicles on farm business. They always had their heads on straight. Responsibility takes time to learn. Start them when they’re young.
#23 “gunner” – The flaw in your post was “anyone with a passing familiarity with guns”. Maybe, that’s part of the problem. These people have no familiarity with guns. Indeed, they revile them. These laws then give them the opportunity to persecute those who do like martial things.
I think that maybe the solution is to require people to become qualified with some kind of gun. Once they learn something about guns, the procedures for handling them, and the respect they are accorded by their users, then this gun-control insanity will pass.
This story oonfirms the stats on SAT scores,showing that public school teachers and administrators are the stupidest of all the groups who graduate from college.
Marc Malone: Actually, you don’t disagree with me. I don’t advocate raising the driving age; I was just trying to point out that a car is much more of a danger to students. I agree with your thoughts about gun qualifications. Firearms training can give youth a respect for deadly force.
#39 This Admin had a 1535 SAT. I also have an MBA from the University of Chicago, not one of the stupidest to graduate college. While I do find that some of my teachers are not the sharpest in some subject areas and I have had to ease some out of the profession, I find the great majority of them are VERY accomplish in their own education. The Myth of “those that can do and those that can’t teach” is just that, witness the salaries paid to trainers in the business world.
As a Conservative, I find this kind of statement on par with the “all Christians are hypocritical haters” sentiment on the left.
Moderator, please remove 41 and this one, not on topic and sent before I thought. This kind of stuff does not need to be here
thanks
Piper
I was placed on suspension, investigated, and lost one day’s pay.
My crime?
Trying to find a lazy nurse for the umpteenth time while a patient waited in stirrups for her pap smear, I muttered: I’m going to shoot her when I find her”
Since I am a physician, an ex missionary, and a grandmother who has no arrests for violence, one ordinarily would think that the statement would be accepted as a normal sign of frustration for staff that ignores patients while taking coffee breaks.
But when the (temporary) head of the clinic saw the “incident report” (which was about the nurse for being absent without getting backup, not myself) he claimed the law forced him to report it under zero tolorance.
Needless to say, I retired soon afterward. Why work and put up with bullcrappie when you are old enough to retire?
Have no fear. Liberal Democrats will take away all our wooden firearms and America will be safer place to live. NOT!
We’re all doomed!
Not everyone in the public schools is stupid. Case in point – a student brought in his grandad’s WWII era sword taken in the Pacific Theatre. A beautiful memento and family teasure. Teacher in class panics but was smart enough to ask others for advice. Teacher held sword during presentgation, took sword for day, others spoke to admin. “off the record” and sword held until dad shows up and takes it. Kids saw a piece of history, student gave a nice presentation and got some experience with public speaking,all in all, what school is supposed to be about. What makes this crazy is that it happened at a school in southern Karlifornia, the now bankrupt, workers’ paradise.
I can appreciate that the state wishes to prevent students from transporting unauthorized firearms, or replicas, to school.
Perhaps rather than using the phrase ‘reasonable facsimile’, they should use something like ‘accurate facsimile’, or simply ‘facsimile’.
A facsimile is an exact copy of a thing – http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/facsimile
But a ‘reasonable facsimile’ is not a actually a facsimile – it’s something that could be construed to be a facsimile. Note that the standard here is not based on a positive quality of precision ( ‘exact’ ), but the negative proposition – things that could not be construed to resemble something.
You see, by this construction, the term facsimile no longer restricts the application of the standard by direct comparison. It establishes a secondary comparison that is actually dependent on the (primary) evaluation of whether something could be perceived to resemble something else. If it can, but it is not in fact that thing – a firearm – then it is by default a facsimile.
So a school administrator who wishes to uphold the letter of the law is put into the position of determining whether something could be perceived to resemble a firearm. If so, they must initiate the expulsion process.
Y’know, high schools should offer marksmanship training.
If we treated swiming like we treat firearms, every summer we’d have thousands of kids drowning at beaches, pools and lakes.
Back in the early days of the internet, I’d correspond with a guy who claimed that he’d carry his bolt-action .22…on the New York City subway…to his public school’s marksmanship classes.
And no one would so much as bat an eye.
#36 OmegaPaladin:
” It is the same thing that occurs with airport security – you cannot use a profile method (like looking for a young male with certain odd behaviors and a one-way ticket)”
Grrrrr! You just reminded me of how I lost my scrimshawed Zippo.
I paid off a ship in Panama, and went through their version of the TSA. I had my Zippo, produced it, and the Panamanian TSA lady, took it, removed the flint from it and handed it back to me…no problemo.
I arrive in Newark NJ, and get through La Migra, then hustle off to make my domestic connection.
Heave to at the TSA checkpoint there…
“Sorry, you can’t bring that on the plane.”
“Look, guy…there’s no flint in it, the thing won’t even make a spark, much less a flame.”
“You can mail it home over there.”
“Dude..c’mon, my connection leaves in 10 minutes, I haven’t got the time for that.”
“Then you have to surrender it here.”
“Yeah…it’ll make a nice gift for one of your buddies, right?”
“Hey…it ain’t like that!”
“Suuuuure, ace. Suuuuure.”
So, if any of youse mugs has possession of a Zippo with a scrimshaw of a 3-masted clipper on it that you got from your pal who works for TSA at Newark airport…I want it BACK!
6 months later the Grand High TSA Poobah determines that lighters are no loger deadly weapons…
More common sense in Panama than in New Jersey.
#48. Bilgeman:
Similar thing happened to a former co-worker of mine, except instead of a lighter, it was live lobsters.
We was flying from New England to somewhere out west and bringing a pair of Maine lobsters for friends who used to live in the east and missed the delicacy. The seafood place packed them up for shipping in a container specifically made for carry-on. First flight out of BOS went fine. Trouble occurred when they went to transfer in the midwest. TSA agent insisted the box be opened before they could board the connecting flight. My co-worker explained they were live lobs specially packed for flight and to open the box would ruin the packing. TSA insisted. Once the box was open and the contents were confirmed to be live lobsters, the TSA agent claimed they could not be brought aboard the plane and had to be abandoned at the airport. My co-worker told him they would be abandoned over his dead body, then insisted on seeing the highest TSA supervisor in the airport. The agent tried to insist my co-worker had to do as told or he would be arrested. Co-worker said, “Arrest me, then take me to your supervisor. You aren’t getting free $50 lobsters.”
Long story short, though he ALMOST missed his connection, a few minutes he was cleared to board his flight WITH his lobsters.
Sorry, a little off topic, but still a common sense thing considering the packaging was specifically for carry-on to flights.
re: #7, Big Red. Couldn’t have said it better, myself.
I remember in Junior High building a gun rack in shop class, as did a number of others. It was not uncommon for a kid to bring a gun to school and refinish the stock or whatever in shop class.
Also, on any given day, there were any number of guns in student vehicles, as after school we would go hunting or target shooting on the way home. To the best of my recollection, none of us grew up to become a sociopath.
Whatever happened to common sense?
Peter the Bubble:
Crap…you know now that some Moojie ass-hat is going try stuffing C-4 inside of a lobster, right?
Just as soon as he can get his hands on one and figure out how to disassemble and reassemble it properly.
I spent four years studying stage combat for which I had a bagful of special weapons–swords, daggers, rapiers, etc. However, even then I knew not to leave them in plain sight. The main reason was to avoid having them stolen. Nowadays it would be to avoid stupid people who assume the worst. A lot of this nonsense would have been avoided if the drill teacher or the kid simply would have put the stuff in a bag.
52. sharonsj wrote:
A lot of this nonsense would have been avoided if the drill teacher or the kid simply would have put the stuff in a bag.
Peter writes: Gee, who would have figured you would need to put lumber in a bag to prevent people from mistaking it for a lethal weapon?
Peter, sadly, I suspect that’s exactly what Marie Morrow thought.
Zero tolerance policies in schools are almost invariably administered by zero intelligence personnel. The law that you reference Charlie (in #34) was undoubtedly passed (as I remember and would characterize the Colorado legislature) by zero intelligence politicians. Zero also represents the level of American common sense these days. Zero does NOT, however, represent the level of frustration and anger that is beginning to increase exponentially. Nor does zero come close to describing the coming reaction that will rock this country.
“And parade rifles might be mistaken for a real rifle by someone who had never seen either except from a distance, but they resemble a real rifle about as much as what a handy sixth grader would carve out of a two-by-six. She was suspended and came under threat of expulsion for possession of lumber.”
–haha, so true. If lumber is a weapon now we shouldn’t be able to carry a lot of things around with us. We might as well make airplane rules standard for everywhere.
I am firmly in support of the four R’s.
Readin’, Ritten’, Rithmetic’, And Riflin’.
It is unconstitutional.. as well as downright mad, not to have weapons at schools. The only school shootings to be stopped, were by armed citizens.
The only “zero tolerance” which makes sense…. is one on liberals.
Wow, it’s a good thing these policies weren’t in effect when i was in high school, being on the ski team, I had my poles in the car most days during the winter, and to a nearsighted school administrator they might be considered a reasonable fascimile of a cavalry saber!
“Zero tolerance” was never designed to actually make people any safer, any more than the district-wide ban on black trenchcoats in Jefferson County after Columbine was. “Zero tolerance” was designed to make people FEEL safer, and so long as the people in charge of enforcing it are free to act intelligently, it does its job.
The problem a lot of you seem to have is an assumption that they are free to act intelligently.
The school principal receives a report that a student has weapons in her car. It is just barely possible, if the principal has the balls to do it, to decide that a chat with the student will suffice, so long as no one else has heard about it yet. If anyone else in the school knows about the report, that principal’s hands are tied. That principal may think it’s totally stupid, but the law requires certain actions.
Let me ask you this: how many of you here would thumb your nose at the law when you know that doing so will get you fired? How many of you who are condemning teachers for acting as society demands they act would actually do otherwise in their place?
Yes, I think the zero tolerance law has a lot of issues. I also know that its job was not to keep kids safe, but to keep their parents from pulling them out of school in fear. It did its job.
I know a number of teachers who do ignore this law whenever possible. Administrators, too. But no, one news story about someone actually obeying the law and suddenly everyone here decides that all school teachers and administrators are idiots?
Don’t blame the people who enforce stupid laws. For that matter, don’t blame the politicians who pass laws in reaction to a scared public. If you want, blame their lawyers for poor wording. Or how about, for a change of pace, take the blame yourselves– it’s a societal problem, and no matter how much better you think you are than the people around you, you’re part of society. Bitching about it on the comments section of a news article online doesn’t do a damn thing to fix it.
Thanks Everybody, the public outcry was great.
The change in law passed unanamously in the senate and went in front of the House last week. I guess we’ll see….
I randomly found this site while I was researching some information about Zero Tolerance and I have to say I have learned a lot from everyone. We are all quick to judge and seek to blame others. PIPER- I have to say that I admire that you are in an environment where you can look at a situation and judge it for what it is and still keep in mind the safety of your students. However, on the other hand I have say that I don’t think it’s the administrators fault completely. I mean wouldn’t you all agree that you would do what your job requires of you? I know some administrators, from where I grew up, seriously lack common sense in the Zero Tolerance idea, but they too want to keep there jobs and will hide behind this policy in order to do so. It’s not right, so WE need to help change the policy! I pray and hope that those who are capable of making a change in this policy will soon do so. This all comes back to the idea the good suffer with the bad, but if we open our eyes and look around, maybe WE are the answer to this situation. why can’t the people change what needs to be changed?