When a Civilization Goes Mad
Historian Arnold Toynbee, who developed the theory of challenge-and-response to account for the survivability of civilizations, has said that great civilizations are not murdered, they commit suicide — by not meeting their challenges. A variation of this historical insight may be phrased thus: When a civilization or an empire feels inwardly that it is dying, or as Oswald Spengler put it in The Decline of the West, that it wants to die and “wishes itself into the darkness,” it begins to go mad. Collective madness is a sure portent that an end is approaching, that an axial transformation is about to occur, that an entire worldview or cultural habitus is on the verge of disintegration. It signals that a people has surrendered to a mortal destiny, repudiated its sustaining tradition and condign principles, and indeed has gone so far as to regard the enemy at the gates as a form of salvation. “They were, those people, a kind of solution,” say Constantine Cavafy’s effete Romans in his celebrated poem, “Waiting for the Barbarians.”
“Western politics,” Raymond Ibrahim has said, discussing the befuddled American and European outreach to the Muslim Brotherhood with its clever, phased project for infiltrating Western society, “have descended into idealism and fantasy.” The same can be said about the state of the Western media. The media are like the neural pathways establishing connections between the various parts of the “world brain.” When they begin to transmit false representations and misleading messages, the response to world events is at best incongruous and at worst drastically contorted. Both public sentiment and public policy lurch about in a kind of no-man’s land, unable to make contact with things as they are. Obviously, there will always be a certain amount of “misfiring” in the circuitry, but when the entire system is warped and deformed, it becomes next to impossible to properly “read” the empirical world and react in appropriate ways. This creates a disjunction between mind and reality, which is one definition of madness.
The gradual but unrelenting insinuation of socialist and neo-Marxist doctrine into the liberal West, after it has been reliably shown to falter or collapse wherever it has been implemented, is still another index of severe mental disconnect and maladjustment to reality. Command economies are proven to be inefficient, and the welfare state, predicated on the punitive taxation of a shrinking and increasingly insolvent productive base to subsidize ever-inflating entitlement programs, has been properly described as a gigantic Ponzi scheme. Redistributionist and womb-to-tomb security states, as Margaret Thatcher famously said, will eventually run out of other people’s money. Nevertheless, this ideological will-o’-the-wisp continues to be diligently pursued.
Or consider the phenomenon of multiculturalism, as interpreted and practiced in the West, which has led the countries that have adopted it into a state of social and political bedlam. Based, as Salim Mansur argues in his new book Delectable Lie, “on the false idea — another official lie, really — that all cultures are equal,” it is progressively destroying “the West’s liberal democratic heritage…by extending recognition to groups defined through collective identity” and by elevating ethnicity over nationality. As a consequence, under the glazed and permissive view of the political class, the social fabric has critically unraveled, no-go enclaves have sprung up in many cities, the specter of homegrown terrorism haunts the public square, the structure of Western law and normative conduct has come under threat, and growing tension is the order of the day. Multiculturalism has seen the heritage culture adapting to the demands, institutions, and usages of immigrant societies rather than the other way round.
Indeed, the European Union has promulgated laws which militate against the criticism of Islam on the grounds of hate speech. Politicians, journalists, and ordinary citizens, like Geert Wilders, Lars Hedegaard, and Elisabeth Sabbaditch-Wolff, respectively, have found themselves prosecuted in court for warning their fellow citizens against the infiltration of radical Islam into the body politic. The same travesty is being repeated in Canada, whose misnamed Human Rights Commissions, which are essentially kangaroo courts that are not required to follow the rules of evidence, have tried such forthright and respectable journalists as Ezra Levant and Mark Steyn for offending Muslim sensibilities. If this is not madness, I don’t know what is.
Perhaps the most conspicuous current example of collective delirium was the election of Barack Hussein Obama to the presidency of the United States. A man with no record of significant prior achievement, who sat for twenty years in the pews of a dubious church under the ministry of an anti-American and anti-Jewish, hate-spewing pastor, who has associated with various compromised individuals such as former PLO spokesman Rashid Khalidi, antisemite and black supremacist Louis Farrakhan, unrepentant former terrorist Bill Ayers, pro-Islamist plutocrat Khalid al-Mansour, and corrupt businessman Tony Rezko, whose political sentiments lie far to the Left, whose dossier remains in large measure under seal and whose verifiable biography is to a disturbing degree a matter of conjecture — all this and much more should have alerted the electorate to his gross unsuitability for office, prompted the legacy media to investigate, and disqualified him immediately from running for the Democratic nomination.






Similar madness infected the world during the 1920s and 30s. And it kept up like a malignant tumor on us, through the 1980s. But even with this, the United States and other freedom loving nations managed to triumph over the Axis and the Soviet Union. It will take a hell of a lot of hard work, but don’t underestimate the power of freedom. It spreads like wildfire and even in the Arab nations, underneath the punishing subjugation of the Islamists it burns and is kept alive by the miracle that is the Internet. More and more people are finding that the liberal lifestyle is just plain wrong, and the ugly truth of the elites is exposed.
It won’t be easy. It will be hard and tough and cost a lot, in terms of lives and money and resources and test our faith. But ultimately, I believe we will prevail. Based on history, based on facts, and based upon faith.
I agree. I cannot, and will not believe that what G-d has ultimately intended for humanity is subjugation and chaos. He has instilled in us a strong desire for freedom, prosperity and hope for the future. To live any other way for long periods of time is not the natural order. I have no doubt that there will be another world war, the question is when and what will be the outcome when it’s over.
‘I cannot, and will not believe that what G-d has ultimately intended for humanity is subjugation’
T.G.
It’s worse than subjugation,America and the West have pickled the Sodom and Gomorrah model of utter destruction.
Jews and Christian’s should remember how the God of Israel raised up King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to subjugate the surviving Jews he did not kill because they forgot His commandments and blessings and chased after the cursed perverted life.
History is always repeating,again and again.
Have you noticed the curse which has descended upon the U.S.
God has given this perverted nation a wicked leader to lead us to destruction.
Some of my acquaintances are British and Australian/New Zealand (about the same thing). It’s really amazing how hard it is to convince them that teenage, single-parent families are not a good thing and that the state should encourage, if not enforce, marriage. (Marriage is actually a state, not a religious function – it’s designed to prevent the very thing that we’re now seeing in the U.K.)
Electing a conservative president will be the easy part. The hard part, if we are to recover at all, will be to reimpose a sense of morality and proper behavior on ourselves.
Forget Sodom and Gomorrah – the last time civilization was this messed up was during the time of Noah! This time God won’t destroy with water but with fire (I’ve heard it said the flood people got off easy – that it won’t go so easy with us) and God won’t repopulate this time. This time it’s the end-game.
Marcel, I absolutely agree that America is in a downward spiral. I am not sure if she is cursed, perhaps just being tested at this point. G-d wants us to turn from wickedness but in order for us to do that, we must understand that what we are doing is wrong and we must WANT TO CHANGE. If we do not willingly seek good over evil then yes, we not just be cursed, but damned as well. Obama et al is one of the biggests tests for the Unites States. A lot of people are now seeing just how dangerous and unhealthy radical liberalism is. I think that a large percentage of the U.S. realizes that their taken-for-granted freedoms are slowly being removed and they are scared and angry. Can any sane person envision a world without a strong and free United States? The thought is terrifying…I just hope that we in the West can endure and be worthy to pass this test.
‘perhaps just being tested at this point’
If only it were.
I believe we have crossed the line of no return by sticking our nose where it does not belong in pushing the dividing Jerusalem.
There is a clear warning in Zechariah 12:3 which the fools in Washington have arrogantly and blindly ignored.
It’s evident beyond any doubt that we are soon to be severely injured,cut in pieces because God keeps his word unlike politicians.
Sad, but true
On the other hand, we could be looking at a repeat, in a sense, of the Tower of Babel – confusing us so that we do not become too powerful.
No way- humanity won’t get off so easy this time. No, while we are indeed witnessing the construction of the Neo Tower of Babylon (or depending on your interpretation of the EU Parliament Building, perhaps it is already built), when God destroys it, that is, destroys Babylon the Great, the consequences will not be merely the confusion of language, but rather the complete and utter destruction of the ungodly. Those not killed in the plagues will be slain at Armageddon, or else executed at the ensuing Judgment. Only those who turn to the Lord for Salvation will survive it.
Why did God make you? God made you to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him on this earth and to be happy with Him forever in Heaven. God did not make you to be free, or properous, or healthy. Jesus lived at a time and in a place where freedom wasn’t even on the horizon. To the disdain of most Jews in Israel, He did not lead an uprising against the Romans, or try to eliminate all traces of Hellenic culture. He instructed His followers to take up the Cross and follow Him. Who in his right even imagines that Jesus had a position on marginal tax rates or the debt-ceiling? Same-sex marriage would be another matter entirely, but I don’t hear much about that one.
Thank you for this reminder, Jacobite. I needed to be reminded of the Baltimore Catechism today. Pax.
Comparing now to the 20′s and 30′s doesn’t wash.
Marxism was in its infancy and the American people hadn’t yet been lured into the web of the welfare state. And the great danger in the world was foreign powers bent on ruling the world.
This is a far different time. Our enemy is within.
Yet again, one is reminded of Rudyard Kipling’s prophetic fable, “The Mother Hive”:
http://www.bythechapter.com/cgi-bin/fhw.exe?BTCWeb&Title=Actions+and+Reactions&Chapter=THE+MOTHER+HIVE
The words of Leonard Cohen’s song ‘The Future’ are a constant refrain..
‘Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won’t be nothing nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned the order of the soul
‘..I’ve seen the nations rise and fall
I’ve heard their stories, heard them all
but love’s the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told to say it clear, to say it cold
It’s over, it ain’t going any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop you feel the devil’s riding crop
Get ready for the future it is murder’
You forgot the most chilling line in that song:
“Destroy another fetus now
We don’t like children anyhow
I’ve seen the future, baby:
it is murder.”
Great song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drEFOaPaK8&playnext=1&list=PL07483ACEEF81C8DC
While reading this essay, I was reminded of the scene in “The Lord of the Rings”, specifically “The Two Towers”, of the state of Rohan and the poisoning of the mind of King Theoden. That civilization was declining into madness too. Only thing is it’s fantasy. But that civilization was redeemed. Deceit was purged and people awoke and fought against the evil. Will we? Are we willing? Or are we satisfied with our gadgets and pleasures too much that we allow our way of life be taken over by a hateful ideology?
I recall that King Theoden was under a spell – bewitched by Saruman – and the spell was broken by Mithrandir – the re-born Gandalf. Many of our fellow citizens are under a spell, cast by Soros and his ilk and broadcast by the Wormtongues in the media. I hear the call of the spell but it has no effect because I have a well tuned BS detector – a healthy sense of skepticism so to speak. I just wish I knew where my detector came from and how to bottle it so I could force feed it to the people around me. I work with highly educated people and am constantly amazed at how thoroughly brainwashed they are. Puzzlingly, they also have a strong sense of skepticism. Unfortunately, their skepticism is focused solely on anything conservative – evidence of the effectiveness of the brainwashing.
David, thus we suffer the effects of Pusher Politics.
“Go ahead, take just a little entitlement, it’s not going to hurt you”.
“What, are you not cool? All the cool people are in favor of entitlements”
“Now that you have tried it, tell your friends not to listen to anybody who isn’t “cool” with it”
“Oh, you are having trouble paying for it and you need some more? Well, you know who has money? The rich…and they are keeping you from getting your fix. You should confiscate some of their money, if you want more of your entitlement”.
“I could pay you to deal a little, my little ACORN friend. The SEIU union gang could find you a territory and a cover job, you could be a mule for us”
And so it goes, David. This country has an Entitlement Jones. B. Rock and the Nancy Pushlosi have succeeded in forcing more middle class families into joblessness and dependency. Stripping people of their individuality, groping them at airports, invading their privacy, making them wards of the state.
Protecting baton-wielding thugs at polling booths. Appointing Communist czars, Mao-loving radicals, hanging Che posters and making a world tour apologizing for America’s very existence.
Failing to pass a budget, failing to read legislation, failing to uphold the Constitution, ….the Pusher/Dealer Democrats have a far left agenda. George Soros has stated that he wants to overturn capitalism. So has Bill Ayers. The entirety of James Cone’s Liberation Theology is based upon Marxism and anti-capitalism. Barack Obama Sr. wrote a paper on “Our Socialism” for Kenya. Van Jones is a Communist. Bill Ayers calls himself a small c communist.
Judeo-Christian belief systems offend them. Followers of the Bible are the enemy of the Pusher/Dealer class. Free market constitutional democracy must be destroyed…and the Pusher/Dealer class is having an internal clash not about whether this is malevolent…but about the speed at which the destruction should take place…and whether to come out from the shadows and conduct the fight in the open.
So far, B. Rock has opted for hiding behind the mask. This has infuriated the anarchists. They want their treason microwaved. But B. Rock wants to play it cool. He wants to use his ability to say “soothing words”, to mask the intent.
There is nothing “liberal” in this ploy. The radical extremism behind it has destroyed every ounce of “progressive” or “liberal” ideology. And the flying monkeys in the mass media, the red diaper trained propaganda machine provide all the cover the Pusher/Dealer class needs.
As for the Islamic jihadists…they make a useful tool for tearing down the Judeo-Christian free market system. It speeds along the demise for the Pusher/Dealer crowd. It causes a fight on two flanks. Three actually.
Class warfare and race warfare…now have religious warfare as an axis power.
The Pusher/Dealer class especially want to infiltrate the pop culture. Owning Hollywood and academia is a key. Let 50% pay almost NO taxes, carry NONE of the burden…and when they run out of entitlement crack, blame “the rich” and start confiscating.
Tear down the defense mechanism. Wipe out the military. Get rid of the “opposing side” through attrition, and death panels. Stop their right to choose to live on, take away their doctors and medical care. Seize the insurance, banking, student loan, housing, real estate, auto, energy markets.
Shut down Fox News and talk radio. Cut off communications. Enforce voting rights based upon color. Have ACORN commit mass voter fraud.
Plant judges who will selectively not follow the Constitution or precedent. Tear, rip and shred the system from the inside.
B. Rock and the New Democrackheads have an entitlement just for you, little boy. Try it. It won’t hurt you.
But, it just might kill America.
The devil, as they say, is in the details and “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves …”
Can’t reply. You’ve left nothing more to say.
The problem with Western society is that it still clings to the idea that a ruling elite must make the decisions. And that elite’, usually self-anointed, becomes convinced that it is always absolutely right about everything.
It’s the principle of “rule by divine right”, minus the divine part. Those who rule believe they are somehow destined to do so, therefore they are infallible. And anyone who disagrees with them is not merely factually wrong, but evil into the bargain.
Since these two facts are “true”, then it logically follows that whatever the ruling class thinks, or believes, or wants to do is not merely “right”, but sacred, and they are therefore justified in doing anything necessary to achieve their ends.
Conversely, any opinion held by anyone outside of that elite’ must, ipso facto, be wrong. Which means it must be suppressed at all costs.
The result is a self-referential “philosophy” which is almost invulnerable to change in light of what happens in the real world. And since those who hold that philosophy also hold the reins of power, decisions made by government, the media, etc., have almost no contact with reality.
Another factor is that the elite’ consider themselves so innately superior to everyone else that they almost constitute a separate “race”, at least in their own minds. One so different from the “Great Unwashed” that the latter are seen as only fit to serve the rulers. Again, the principle of feudal rule sans the grace of a deity.
This is why you cannot appeal to the reason of our elite’. They believe that only they are capable of reason. And that their “feelings” are more “real” than actual facts.
There is no solution, other than removing the elite’ from power. In short, our rulers, in government, media, and elsewhere, need to be pink-slipped. They will never change, and our civilization can no longer afford their delusions.
clear ether
eon
Media people are lefties because that is what they are taught in school. Most people are lefties because that is what they are taught in school. We have to get rid of the progs in the schools first and formost and the rest will take care of itself.
Kant’s categorical imperatave was usurped, upended and hijacked by the Nietzschean will to power. The Nietzschean ‘transvaluation of all values’ has been similarly usurped, upended and hijacked by the Left in the service of the devaluation of all values.
Is it just madness or is it enemy action?
Not an enemy that is the enemy of the America, or the West as such(although those might contain that which it hates) but the enemy of liberty itself.
The ruinous totalitarian dream.
Perhaps that is the madness?
And if it is, well, madness is just stupid.
Surely there are some bright enough people around and in places where they can stop the madness.
As (partially) did Thatcher, Reagan, Lech Walesa, the previous Pope, and others likeminded in the late 1970s.
“Surely there are some bright enough people around and in places where they can stop the madness. As (partially) did Thatcher, Reagan, Lech Walesa, the previous Pope, and others likeminded in the late 1970s.”
Sorry, John B. You have it all wrong. The cast of characters that you enumerate in the above did not stop the madness. The Nobel prize winner Gorbachev did. Reagan was a nuclear cowboy who, had not the level headed Gorby stopped with reasoned diplomacy, would have blown up the entire planet. Get your history straight! Anyway, that’s the line of bulls**t that my liberal relatives and their friends embrace. Besides, that’s what I used to hear on NPR. So it must be true.
Oh dear.
If what you say is a prevailing opinion then there is not much hope, is there?
Fortunately truth seems to have an inherent advantage over lies, but the lies seem to have the money.
“The gradual but unrelenting insinuation of socialist and neo-Marxist doctrine into the liberal West, after it has been reliably shown to falter or collapse wherever it has been implemented, is still another index of severe mental disconnect and maladjustment to reality. Command economies are proven to be inefficient, and the welfare state, predicated on the punitive taxation of a shrinking and increasingly insolvent productive base to subsidize ever-inflating entitlement programs, has been properly described as a gigantic Ponzi scheme. Redistributionist and womb-to-tomb security states, as Margaret Thatcher famously said, will eventually run out of other people’s money. Nevertheless, this ideological will-o’-the-wisp continues to be diligently pursued.”
This is what has always puzzled me about liberals and the crazy far left (then again, what really is the difference). All of the schemes and programs that they want to pass have already been tried and are proven failures. There is not one government-run program that is run efficiently, let alone SAVES the country money. All of the entitlement programs are losing tons of money at a dramatic pace and all of the government departments, such as the Post Office, are also almost broke due to over spending and deficits. So why, oh why, would anybody want to double-down on all these programs and want to invest even more money into them?
The only thing I can think of is that it is pure selfishness. People think that they have it coming to them and that they would be foolish giving up “free stuff.” They never seem to realize that all of this “free stuff” and all of these government programs and agencies have to be paid for by someone. So as long as these people are getting “free stuff” and the money for it doesn’t come out of their pockets, well, why not?
It is this type of greed and selfishness that is driving this country into bankruptcy. People like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer (a truly hideous person that should not have been elected to a school board let alone the US Senate), think that the government is always the solution and never part of the problem. They think that the government has an obligation to give people everything, not thinking that they are driving the country bankrupt in the process. And if Obamacare remains the law of the land, then you really will see our deficits explode. And all because liberals will not admit that everything that they have believed in since Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt was utterly wrong. And rather than just admit that, they would rather see our country destroyed because of it.
Well, time to give them a major dose of reality in 2012. This is possibly our last chance to save this country. If a socialist like Obama gets another term in office, then we really will be destroyed, both internally and externally in the world of foreign policy. So the decision is really up to us. What do we want? Do we want a new beginning of fiscal conservatism, or do we want to go bankrupt? The choice really is up to us.
You got it all wrong. It’s not greed that motivates the left – it’s power. Specifically power over people. These people LOVED the idea that Saddam Hussein could just snatch people off the street and kill them for sport.
Do you think it’s greed that motivates George Soros – a man that has billions? No – it’s power that motivates him. It wasn’t greed that excited a young Soros as he accompanied Nazi’s to evict people and confiscate their property – it the power the Nazi’s had OVER people.
Same thing with a lot of these hollyweirdos and such. They support Obama because they LIKE the idea that they are rich and can lord it over the miserable “little” people locked out and starving outside their gates. That’s why these people hate the middle class so much. Most people with their own stuff don’t really envy people with a lot more stuff. Apparently people with a lot of stuff aren’t happy unless “little” people envy them for having stuff.
Money is but a form of power. Obsession with gaining more power is greed just the same as obsession with gaining more money.
“All of the schemes and programs that they want to pass have already been tried and are proven failures.”
Yes, which is the ultimate example of the Leftist insanity, “…doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”
It’s quite elementary.
The West has turned away from the Light of truth which made us great.
Darkness such as Islam of the false prophet Mohammed has filled the void along with the many worthless replacement idols the wise fools have created to replace the solid foundation of our civilization.
Now the shaking and breaking has begun.
When even such an astute communicator as Caroline Glick is afraid to mention God so as not to look abnormal ,it’s clear our days are numbered.
This forgotten piece below was written thousands of years before the other works you quoted.
Forgetting God is always a suicidal venture.
The wicked shall be turned into hell,And all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17
‘With Him are wisdom and strength,He has counsel and understanding.
If He breaks a thing down, it cannot be rebuilt;If He imprisons a man, there can be no release.
He leads counselors away plundered,And makes fools of the judges.
He leads princes away plundered,And overthrows the mighty.
He deprives the trusted ones of speech,And takes away the discernment of the elders.
He pours contempt on princes,And disarms the mighty.
He makes nations great, and destroys them;He enlarges nations, and guides them.
He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth,
And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness.
They grope in the dark without light,And He makes them stagger like a drunken man.’
Job 12
No God, No Peace.
Know God, Know Peace.
I am afraid you’ve got it upside down
Know God? No peace
No God? Know peace
I hate it when you religious nutjobs parade as Conservatives. The basic tenet of Conservatism is that experience is the only form of knowledge – well, have you ever experienced God? Can you prove He (or She) exists?
The Left is just another religion, without an actual God this time, but a religion none the same. And like all religions they’re closeminded, impervious to reasoning, stuck in their ways, and will defend those ways with violence, even gleefully so.
> I hate it when you religious nutjobs parade as Conservatives.
Ah. Another tolerant atheist.
> The basic tenet of Conservatism is that experience is the only form of knowledge…
I think you’re conflating conservatism and empiricism. There is no one “conservative” philosophy; as we use the term today, it’s just a loose and quarreling alliance (as we see here) of several different factions — that makes conservatism sort of a placeholder term for all those who oppose leftism in its various forms. (Apparently, Burke believed in God. Max Eastman didn’t.)
What these factions have in common is their desire to defend institutions under assault from the Left. It’s hard for them to accomplish anything, however; the Left is at war with all institutions, whereas each “conservative” faction care only for its own pet institutions and can’t be bothered to defend any others. For example, the Church and the free market are both under assaulted from the Left, but Randians don’t care to defend the Church, while a growing number of Christians don’t care to help its erstwhile allies if they get no help in return.
And as far as all knowledge being dependent on experience is concerned, what about higher math? Theoretical physics? For that matter, ethics? If the universe is an accident, it follows that all your thoughts, and mine, are also accidents — accidents of physics, of chemistry. What basis do we have to believe your accidental thoughts to be more sound than a Christian’s? Which of man’s experiences can you point at to demonstrate that reason has arisen from an accidental universe?
We all enter the great debate by bringing in a set of presuppositions which are taken for granted and cannot be proven. Yours are about experience. But doesn’t experience depend on an orderly universe and a reliable set of rational tools that transcend our discussion as authoritative? How does the empiricist explain the existence of such things, having not experienced their birth?
If this is an accidental universe, however, there is no such authority. Either there is a God and transcendent truth exists, or there is nothing but your set of brain chemicals vs. mine. It’s entirely unsurprising that you would prefer yours.
We agree that the Left is just another religion, but it falls in the same theological category as your apparent religion, namely, the worship of man’s wisdom.
– well, have you ever experienced God? Can you prove He (or She) exists?
Perhaps the most conspicuous current example of collective delirium was the election of Barack Hussein Obama to the presidency of the United States. A man with no record of significant prior achievement, who sat for twenty years in the pews of a dubious church under the ministry of an anti-American and anti-Jewish, hate-spewing pastor, who has associated with various compromised individuals such as former PLO spokesman Rashid Khalidi, antisemite and black supremacist Louis Farrakhan, unrepentant former terrorist Bill Ayers, pro-Islamist plutocrat Khalid al-Mansour, and corrupt businessman Tony Rezko, whose political sentiments lie far to the Left, whose dossier remains in large measure under seal and whose verifiable biography is to a disturbing degree a matter of conjecture — all this and much more should have alerted the electorate to his gross unsuitability for office, prompted the legacy media to investigate, and disqualified him immediately from running for the Democratic nomination.
We need to get this brilliant summary of the Obama election debacle on a bumper sticker. Obama-nation! AWWYT?
We all know why this information was basically swept aside by the liberal media. Had Obama been white and Republican, it would have been game over before the players even began.
Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive them to vote for “Democrats”…
Bumper Sticker
Sometimes I just want to nail a story up on the wall and look at it, run my hand across the words. Yes, this is that nameless ache I can’t describe.
But not in despair, Thy mercies are renewed every morning, great is thy faithfulness.
‘Thy mercies are renewed every morning, great is thy faithfulness.’
Who are you talking about.Does he-she-it have a name ?
Don’t be bashful.They might think you’re taking about Obama,Perry or Bachman.
‘The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.’
Proverbs 16:4
The day is closing in.
* “Jeremiah shares his nation’s affliction”
Lamentations 3:22 It is because of the Lord’s mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
3:23 They are new every morning, great is thy faithfulness.
So often have I heard those verses said, I forget not every one may know the reference.
* HOLY BIBLE New Scoffield Reference Edition
“But the emotional frenzy surrounding his candidacy ensured that sanity would not prevail in outing a man whom Robert Kimball has called “a typical hothouse product of our self-satisfied liberal elite.” Kimball continues, with much justification, that “tens or hundreds of thousands of people will suffer because of our naïveté and Barack Obama’s malevolent stupidity”
While some are still in a state of swoonment over Obama- thankfully, some SOME have awakened, are awakening. What will it take to awaken the others?
Note the words”tens of thousands of people will suffer because of our naivete
and Barak Obama’s malevolent stupidity”-now that THAT was prophetic words. Still is..
Madness is when we have fundamentalists on each side each claiming they have the answer to society’s ills.
When exactly were the Glory days of Conservative managed America..? when exactly were the Glory days of Liberal managed America..? they do not exist, and never have. There was NEVER a time period anyone can point too and exclaim this is when Conservative ideals resulted in a generation of plenty, and all was well, the same with Liberal ideals. And there is a reason for it;
As long as Europe can suck dry the Marrow of the American Taxpayer, they will do so. There was 16 trillion in Cash wired to Europe from 2007-2009 from the US treasury and Federal Reserve…this is what people should be questioning, Who received it, why, and when does the American taxpayer get it back.
Wake the Heck Up before its too late.
‘When exactly were the Glory days of Conservative managed America..?’
When the cities are burning to the ground and the store shelves are empty and the currency can’t buy anything and the gangs are roaming the rubble looking for their remaining victims as the elite hunker down in their below ground command centers and the military curfew keeps you indoors for days at a time you will have your answer.
‘The wicked shall be turned into hell,And all the nations that forget God.’
Psalm 9:17
“When the cities are burning to the ground and the store shelves are empty and the currency can’t buy anything and the gangs are roaming the rubble looking for their remaining victims as the elite hunker down in their below ground command centers and the military curfew keeps you indoors for days at a time you will have your answer.”
That sounds like Berlin in April, 1945.
I hear these fantasies of trillions of dollars lost or transfered here or there from time to time, but you have to wonder how connected the people who say it are to reality.
I’m not a big fan of GDP, but if nothing else, it’s a decent measure of economic activity. 15 trillion is about the current GDP. Divide it by 300 million or so people and you get about 50K in econoic activity per person in the US. So it passes a quick smell test.
But this guy claims that more than a year’s worth of national economic activity was sent to just Europe in just 3 years.
I don’t doubt this guy believes it with a blind passion. He must have shrines to Alex Jones and Ron Paul in his basement bedroom. It’s probably why he calls himself Alex. He should stick with assassination and truther fantasies. Hw would be more credible.
The problem was that the money was borrowed from the Chinese and/or simply printed (and thus a product of inflation). If we only actually spent what we produced, things wouldn’t be so bad. Since 2009, however (at least) the government has spent about 140% of what it’s taken in in revenue.
40% above tax reciepts spent withing the US is true. Everybody knows the debt has increased by $5T in three year. You are based in reality, at least on that part.
But an additional 100%+ of GDP pilfered away. Give me a break.
If Paul Ryan said it, it would cause me to look into it. But Alex Jones. Give me a break.
Brilliant!
Anybody ready yet to divide the country in order to save it?
Yes – but the progs would never premit it. Since they produce nothing the progs need conservatives as slaves to feed their entitlements.
Yep! The hard part is Wash. D.C. and Wall Street. We could move WS to Kansas City. But that still leaves D.C. Since they hate the military, I suspect most of it will go with us; we can have dual control over nukes.
They can have the North East, CA, WA, IL, MI, MN and OR. We take the rest. Splitting a nation seems to be working in the Czech Rep. and the former Yugoslavia. Seccession is the key. This gives us the industrial and agricultural heartland and plenty of sea ports. They will rot and riot against each other within a couple years; the elite whites controlling the blacks and hispanics will lose power quickly.
It is obvious that the left and America cannot coexist. Either we split amicably or face another Civil War. Something has to give.
I was sent this in an email from a friend. Did not research it to see if it was even remotely accurate. It purports to be the words of Australia’s Prime Minister. Thought it was interesting and thought provoking.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard – Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques. Quote:
‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT… Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.’
‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.’
‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!’
‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’
‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’
‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’
‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’
Ummm, our Julia is a radical leftist and proud athiest, until the age of 45 she was running around with an Australian Communist Party splinter group called the Socialist Forum. She’s fully on board with radical UK style multi-culturalism and all radical leftist beliefs. She’s currently causing the the destruction of our one hundred year old centre left Labor party having the lowest polls since polls were started as she pursues her radical Fabian Society policies (she has been a proud member of the Australian Fabian Society for decades and regularly gives speeches and attends its events).
Julia Gillard is Australia’s Barack Obama, on steroids.
So the email you quote is absurd and ridiculous, even to mention the word “Muslim” in our current parliament is enough to be censured (as conservative member Scott Morrison found out) and howled down by our tiny, rabidly leftwing press.
Imagine Obama saying those things. That’s how ridiculous it is.
This is not the time to despair. We have the blogosphere for a reason. We also have plenty of opportunities for face-to-face contacts.
There IS something that you can do!
Do you want America’s future decided by the MSM or by the people?
Well the well financed, secular progressives (statists) have breached the walls of the Cosntitution and we are reaping the worldwind. Can we undo the damage? I don’t know as the foundations of the U.S. ecomony have been so weakened and there are so many people using welfare programs. We are now at a tipping point. One more term of Barack Obama and there is no going back as he will have packed the Supreme Court with enough judges that they will approve anything.
“I don’t know as the foundations of the U.S. ecomony have been so weakened and there are so many people using welfare programs. We are now at a tipping point. One more term of Barack Obama and there is no going back as he will have packed the Supreme Court with enough judges that they will approve anything.”
Let us assume you are right, and perhaps you are. But that still won’t make it work. It’s a Ponzi scheme, and it will collapse, no matter who occupies power, no matter how stacked the courts. An unsustainable system will fall apart, and then you have to start again. Reality is the final arbitrator of everything.
David Solway: Gut ge’zukt (well said)!!
Civilizational insanity is the sympton, not the disease.
The disease is the same one that’s been around from the dawn of civilization…totalitarianism. This time around, in the US, it calls itself progressivism, because that’s a handy name to trick the rubes, and we’re kind of down on oligarchies, royalty, pharoes, emperors, czars and commissars in this country.
Totalitariansim is a virus that infects every culture. The US, to our credit, is the culture that has resisted the disease longer than any other.
Personally, I think it’s an incurable disease, but we may not yet be at the cusp of total submission. There’s a chance to beat it back for another couple of decades.
Ultimately, however, our culture will be undone by our own transcendant achievements. No other culture has come close to transforming the wealth of the world as our ancestors have done. The only parallel is Rome, and that culture never touched the lives of ordinary people as deeply as have the fruits of the United States. The problem is the wealth. People think they are poor, but they are crazy. The poorest person living in the US today is a thousand times better off than 99.9% of people who have ever lived. And that kind of overwhelming wealth brings out the charlatans and criminals like nothing ever has….and charlatans have always got their way in every culture before ours even when the rewards for their criminality were far less.
Men who years ago would have been warlords, regional tyrants or mafia bosses are smirking in plush chairs in the US Senate and making themselves billionairs on the backs of plumbers and waitresses.
We can only hope that we do a French Revolution on them before they succeed in capturing the US military. But it’s not likely. The master criminals have always won before so they will probably win again.
It was Obama’s key insight, learnt from his father, that the USA was ready to be governed like Kenya; that the ‘rule of law’ had completely collapsed in the USA, leaving only a facade behind. The purpose of Obama’s governance, like that of Keynatta or Arap Moi, is to loot the treasury for himself and his cronies. There is no evidence that once a government has fallen this deeply into corruption that it can be redeemed.
Pessimist that I am, I agree with the David Solway’s diagnosis, and while there are no unmistakable grim reapers–dressed in long, hooded black robes and holding a scythe–on every street corner, if you care to look around, the signs of societal decline, effeteness, ennui, and disintegration in every level of society are all around us, and multiply by the day.
There are several major culprits, but if I had to put my finger on the primary cause of what increasingly looks like our approaching downfall, we started on our slide to oblivion when the Left was successful in stripping Christianity from our schools and society, and it and religion in general were largely driven from the public square. That was when we started to circle the toilet bowl of History.
For not just the doctrines, rituals, and symbols of Christianity went but, more importantly, the way of life, the cultural norms–the values, the expectations, the morality, the ethics, and the behaviors it taught—were deliberately stripped out as well. For that was the whole point of the exercise, to strip us of the defenses and immunities to infection that Christianity–however imperfectly–inoculated us with, to make us more susceptible to infection by the world view and solutions offered by the Left and Socialism/Marxism.
Thus, the most conspicuous symptoms of our decay–the increasing violence, amorality, and crudity of our culture, the massive growth of government interference in our lives and its promotion of the culture of largely unmerited “entitlement,” the riots in Europe and the flash mobs here in the U.S., and our deliberate turning our head away, our willful ignorance, and our cravenness and lack of the courage and will to face and to recognize the existential threat that the ideology of Islam and Muslims pose for us in the West and in the United States, and our suicidal lack of the will and courage to take the very forceful steps necessary to defend ourselves against them; we apparently no longer believe in ourselves and in the superiority of our civilization and culture, or find our way of life or, ultimately, ourselves, worth defending.
As I see it, there are outposts of our traditional civilization and values here and there that still hold on but, I think that too many things at too many cleavage points are just too fractured. But, just how far gone are we really?
Can the toothpaste be put back into the tube, and can we go back to some old or new form of a now ridiculed, hollowed out, and largely discarded set of values, way of life, and government? Can a society swirling around the toilet bowl of History be reborn and save itself?
Are we analogous to 2nd century Rome, with the equivalent of a number of leaders, “Good Emperors”–able to stave off the night a little longer–on the horizon, or are we 5th century Rome, effete, emasculated, corrupt, and unable to defend ourselves, with the barbarians within our borders and our ultimate, unpreventable fall about to commence, and us–mute and powerless–only able to observe it as it happens?
Rather than relying of the fortuitous appearance of a “great man,” a Charlemagne, or an El Sid, a “man on horseback,”-–Obama has shown us just how fraudulent and destructive such reliance can be–can we ourselves, individually and deliberately–from the ground up and from within, “will” our renaissance, reform and “transform” our value systems and behavior, leading to a rebirth of those characteristics and ways of thinking and behaving that made us great? If so, where is the blueprint for such a resuscitation and renaissance?
If we have and are disintegrating to the extent I believe we are—and from today’s evidence this disintegration is obviously accelerating—I cannot see any fix—technological or cultural, religious or governmental—blazing on the horizon, that holds obvious hope for our renaissance and revival.
I hope that I am proven wrong.
There is near quick, biogentic solution on the Blood Meridian horizon. We redesign ourselves into a species less prone to self-destruct. Which begs the question: will we be able to stemcell the DNA-writ decline in time?
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
good post.
I think the left’s capture of the media is even more fundamental than their attack on Christianity.
But those are just two parts of a complex and integrated strategy to undermine every aspect of American culture, with the specific intent of overthrowing this country. Not every left politician thinks they are subversives, but they certainly are.
I don’t think we can get out of the toilet either, but I do think we can get out for a while. I just doubt that the societal will is strong enough to reverse all of the damage, even when we throw the current scum out of office. The damage they have caused is just too ingrained.
Seth and proreason –
You may be mistaken in that both the removal of christianity from mainstream society and the hijacking of the media by the left are symptoms and not causes of our decline.
I dont have a solid answer, but consider this. After WWII the nature of life in the U.S. was radically different than before the war. Prior to WWII life was much harder and poorer. My grandfather was fond of saying ” If you didnt work you didnt eat!”, and he was right. People were more closely connected to the feral nature of reality, that life is hard and success is hard won but easily lost. Everyone knew, including the rich, that the wolf is always at the door. People didnt have time or patience for foolishness.
After the war there was a heady “We won the war!” feeling pervading the whole country. We felt invincible and that there were no serious enemies to challenge us. The rapid rise in standards of living after the war made us rich. We had time and money and the wolf, we believed, was slain.
Perhaps that notion – that the wolf is slain- triggered this current insane pursuit of utopia. The baby-boomer generation was raised in a much more insulated, idealistic world than their parents. They were not connected, as a whole, to the gritty nature of the world. We believed we were safe and wealthy so our attitudes relaxed and we drifted away from the ethics and values that made us great.
I posit that the character of the American people is still intact, but asleep. Through the waning of our values we are about to discover that the wolf is very much alive and still at the door. It will be a hard row to hoe (when is the last time you heard that one?) but we will be forced to revive that character or die.
Another good expression you never hear anymore is ‘ root-hog or die.’. I doubt many today have a clue what that means. Perhaps it will be revived too.
I agree with the comments about post WWII. It’s pretty much agreed by everybody that the greatest generation let their guard down when it came to raising their kids. The next generation was the baby boomers, who have managed to squander the riches of the ages in less than a 60 years.
But it didn’t happen in a vacuum. There has been an instense and persistent subversion of this country that began as soon as Russia realized they could never defeat the west militarilly. Everything that you see that is wrong today, immorality, hatred of our country, balkanization of races and regions, the fall of religion, the demise of the nuclear family, feminaziism, gay power, and on and on has been a deliberate strategy that culmuniated in Little Lenin’s ascension to the throne. And I don’t use throne casually either. They aren’t interested in democracy or republics. They intend to rule with absolute power.
So I blame the Boomers, but only partially. We have all been subverted.
The tyrants never rest, but America rested. Now it’s probably too late, because the brainwashing is pretty thorough, and they control the media and academia
I wrote above that there were many major developments which, each in its own way– sometimes opposing, but more often breaking ground for and reinforcing the others–have brought us to the perilous situation we are in today and that, if I had to pick, I thought the most influential development—because of the impact it had on our standards of value and how we all thought and behaved–was the stripping of Christianity out of our educational system and culture, but there were other developments that were almost as powerful and influential.
You posit post WWII and the enormous changes it brought in our society as the main cause. I agree that WWII had enormous consequences in all areas of our lives, and impelled us down new pathways, but I also see a number of other key factors—economic and technological, social, political, demographic, and ideological that, all combined and influencing each other over time, have brought us to this pass.
I will mention a few below.
The major ideological factor has been the play book of pre-WWII Italian Communist Party Member and Marxist theoretician Antonio Gramsci—who proposed that Communism would triumph, not by force, but by adopting a generation’s long strategy of relatively violence-free, patient, incremental subversion—a “conspiracy of shared values” by millions of like-minded leftists, each working in their own community and areas of expertise and influence, to subvert, to steer things towards a victory for the ideas and behaviors and systems of Communism/Socialism ending, ultimately, in Revolution. A Revolution gained by using the power of propaganda spread by the media and various leaders, trend setters, influential figures, and opinion makers in the academic community, the arts, the entertainment industry, sports, and elsewhere, to subvert and attack all the basic building blocks of western “bourgeois societies,” the rationale for, basic ideas behind, the structure, and the functioning of —the family, the church, the school, civic institutions, the law, business, politics–and to subvert, destroy, and ultimately to replace the prevailing ethic and the prevailing ruling “hegemony” in such bourgeois societies with those of the far Left. As I see it, this long term plan has been a howling success.
Economic developments that fragmented social cohesion, separated families, diluted face to face personal contact and familiarity, and spread communities out geographically—the car, the interstate highway system, improvements in rail transportation and sea travel, and the invention of the airplane—all made Gramscian subversion and attack that much more effective, as did rapid advances in radio and television which enormously increased the power and reach of propaganda.
Think just of the visual, intellectual, and cultural impact, and of the ability of a well put together color movie, TV show, series, or the nightly news program to change viewers conceptions of “reality,” and of what is true and not true, who is rational, telling the truth, and trustworthy, and who is not. Consider the ability of these increasingly powerful and ubiquitous forms of communication and propaganda to define and to clarify, or to misdirect and to irretrievably muddy, the issues. Consider the ability of these powerful forms of communication and propaganda to steer people in certain directions and towards accepting certain ideas and people, and away from other directions, and toward the rejection of other ideas and people.
On the academic front, Gramscian Postmodern thought swept through the Academy like a Tsunami, subverting or wiping away virtually all traditional thought and scholarship in the major disciplines in the Liberal Arts, and preparing the way for political correctness, multiculturalism, and the view that there is no possibility of valid discernment and judgment, of “discrimination” between what is good, better, and best, that there is no real “Beauty,” that all relationships are really just “power relationships”–those between the oppressor and the oppressed–that there is no real “Truth” that can be found, and that all “Standards” and “Values” are the fraudulent tricks of the oppressor class.
On the religious front churches and temples—also under Gramscian assault—have increasingly focused in good works and social programs, and less and less on religion, the mysteries of God and the soul, and the ethics and behavior that grew out of them.
The MSM concentrated on ‘changing the audience,” manufacturing a new “reality, and warping perceptions. In the Depression, WWII, and Korean War eras Communism could not be sold to many of the American people so, the message was “repackaged,” the issues were “reframed,” and through revolutionary changes in our education system—in fundamental subject matter, approaches, and curriculums—today’s audience has been deliberately denied the depth of knowledge and the critical intellectual tools needed to have a fighting chance of correctly evaluating the newly refashioned Communist/Socialist appeal.
On the front of rising concern for the environment, “energy,” and “ecology,” I note only that it is quite astonishing how many Communists, after the fall of the Soviet Union, reinvented themselves and reemerged as champions of the environment, as “Greens” whose draconian solutions for saving the earth from supposed environmental catastrophe in this overwhelming, time-constrained, “Emergency” just happened to involve the same kind of rigid dictation to and control over society by a self-selected, un-elected group of political leaders, academics, technocrats, and NGOs i.e. the new “vanguard of the proletariat,” as had the Communists in the Soviet Union and elsewhere—a vanguard that is trying to gain ever more control over our supplies of vital water and energy, over our behavior, social and economic life, and wealth, in order to bring about ‘social justice,” and some form of Utopia, knocking the supporting props out from under us, and destroying our traditional western “bourgeois society,” our freedom, and Capitalism in the process.
Bottom line, while many “natural” developments and trends have been at work since before WWII, there has been a very successful effort by the Left to steer them in a certain direction and toward a certain result.
Too many forces to reckon indeed. Add the Soviet disinformation and drugs campaigns since the 1930s, now morphed under “environmentalism”.
As Plato asks, “who will watch the watchers?”, I ask who teaches the teachers?
The academy has subverted several generations in America.
All Americans under 55 — one might as well say ALL Americans, period — have been taught (propagandized) by teachers from the 60s, who spawned teachers of the 80s, who spawned teachers of the 00s . . . .
The immoral but useful idiots the teachers have created are evident in every adolescent, in every parent, in every public official, every societal institution, in every sporting event, in every image/video/theater/publication — such that no Cicero can now arise, no opposition can even slow the decline.
So what does an individual do to save himself and his own? How does one do a John Galt today?
Dear Mr. Solway:
Jean Francois Revel in Last Exit to Utopia says while socialism has been discredited, utopia is always beyond reproach and therefore must be pursued. We seemed doomed to work toward social democracy and socialism despite the fact it has never worked anywhere it has been tried.
I think I understand the post world war two guilt which has caused Europeans to cease defending their culture and way of life.
The United States in the twentieth centure has three times defended our western civilization, world wars one and two and the cold war, defended South Korea from aggression and tried to do the same thing in Vietnam. And yet, our cultural elites hate America and see it as the cause of evil in the world today. Where in America do those feelings come from and why are they so popular, popular despite historical evidence to the contrary.
I will quibble on a point regarding the news media, or whatever passes for the news media in an era. All news sources provide incomplete and biased information. We (human race) run into difficulty when the news sources predominatly say the same thing. We gain direction from it, and run off the cliff.
Presidential campaigns provide good examples.
Well, I’m going to disagree.
I agree that socialism, leftism, multiculturalism…all of that…is authoritarian, manipulative, power-hungry, dysfunctional. But I don’t agree that we are doomed to disappear in its rapacious Jaws.
The reason is: meat and potatoes. Or, to put it simply: demographical reality. We humans live both within ‘fact and fiction’. Or reality and the imaginary realm. The imaginary realm is utopian, purist, infinite, enchanging, seductive. Puff the Magic Dragon will always be in our songs…but..reality always, always, always.. trumps the imaginary world.
The real world is made up of finite matter. They are limited in time and space. So a state of existence that is infinite…whether it’s a tree, a rock or peace certainly exists in the imaginary world but not in the real world.
Reality, with regard to our own selves, is that the world population is at least 7 billion and expected to reach 9 billion. Reality is that socialism, or any utopian ideology based around imaginary goals – cannot sustain this size of a population.
That’s because socialism is not a wealth-producing economy but a wealth-distributing economy. And alas and alack, without the wealth to distribute, socialism always falls flat on its face.
It certainly tries – we must acknowledge this. Think of the previous attempts and even current attempts. Socialism, whether it be fascist or communist or Islamist – is authoritarian, totalitarian and intent on its Ultimate Goal of a uniform population all working, as on some kind of Truman Show, at some preset communitarian goal. But..it lacks the wealth, the ‘energy’ to ‘make things happen’.
We’ve seen the ideas of socialism about where this wealth comes from and it fits into their imaginary rather than real world thinking. I call it The Magic Cauldron view of wealth; the socialists think wealth comes ‘from somewhere’, bubbling up, infinitely of course, as in a magic cauldron. Other names for this cauldron are: God, Fate, those Landowners, the White Farmers, the Japanese, the Germans, the Americans…and, as Obama keeps telling us: ‘The Rich’.
But economics doesn’t work that way; wealth doesn’t come from a magic Cauldron. It’s not infinite. It derives only from work. Private enterprise work that produces food, or goods, or services. Sells it on the open market. Makes a profit (that’s the wealth)..and then, DOESN’T redistribute it to 100 different people for consumption purposes…but INVESTS it.
INVESTMENT. That’s the key phase that socialism utterly and totally ignores. They deal only with redistribution of wealth (from that magic cauldron) for CONSUMPTION purposes. Socialism, living in the imaginary world, ignores that you have to INVEST this wealth…into making more food, more goods and services, hiring more people, fixing things, developing new technology.
So – socialism, since it lacks that basic component of an economy: INVESTMENT, cannot produce enough wealth to support a population’s consumption needs.
That’s why it won’t succeed. But, the force of the imagination, the emotional and visceral fights we go through to make it work – are vicious and bloody.
It’s just that reality, the meat and potatoes of life, always trumps the imaginary world. We always have to wake up and acknowledge that we live in the real, not imaginary, world.
See my response to proreason above….you said it better than I did.
Thanks – but I liked the realism of your post and your pointing out that the US moved into its Imaginary Phase after WWII. Now it has to return to a Reality Phase.
That, by the way, is what the Tea Party is, and was, all about. Reality – both in 1773 and now in 2011. Reality.
What constantly stuns me is how so many people ignore the triadic nature of an economy. There are three phases: Investment, Production and Consumption; they are inseparable but the most vital is the first one for the other two rest on its foundation.
An economy, whether it be nature producing plants, insects and animals in the fields or a society supporting its population, has to ‘have wealth’ and ‘make wealth’ so that the seeds/plants/animals and people can not only engage in daily metabolic acts of each individual but also, in reproductive strength or continuity into the future.
In nature that means in replenishing the soil, replenishing water sources, producing more seeds than will be consumed by birds/animals etc. That’s the INVESTMENT phase. It enables nature to PRODUCe more plants/animals..
In society, it means using profits to build a new branch factory, upgrade or purchase new equipment, hire more workers…all so that one can PRODUCE more goods.
Consumption is the final phase – and in nature, one must not consume all the fish or insects or seeds…otherwise nature won’t be able to replenish itself. That’s why nature always produces a zillion seeds, insects…
In an human economy, we transform the product into money..and then, mustn’t tax away the profit and redistribute it for consumer goods but must allow the ORIGINAL PRODUCER to INVEST and REPLENISH his production facility.
Socialism is focused only on Consumption. That’s because it operates within an Imaginary Realm, and considers that the means of production is eternal and comes out of a magic cauldron. But in the real world, nothing is eternal and that includes wealth, the means-to-make-more.
Obama, as a pathological narcissist, has no connection to reality; he lives totally within an imaginary realm. And, as a constant liar, he says what he thinks will best manipulate his audience into submisive adulation.
That’s what his current campaign bus tour is all about (paid by the taxpayer by calling it, not a campaign but an ‘economic task’…ahh, the magic of words).. Obama is blatantly setting Himself up as a Victim of the Evil rowdy and greedy and common riff-raff of Congress. He, the Sainted One, wants nothing but good for his people (as he said: Obama cares)…Now, that’s imagination.
Economics is just a part of it, ETAB.
The subversion has destroyed the culture. The most basic strategy has been balkanization…pitting groups against each other. Blacks agains whites, secularists against religions, unions against businesses, homosexuals against heterosexuals, the northeast and west coasts against flyover country, haves against have-nots. Envy and hatred is now the dominant attitude of the country, egged on by the guy who lied that he would bring us all together in the white house. What a laugh. He hasn’t brough two slices of bread together in his life. He was a professional communist agitator, for god’s sake.
They leverage the normal human emotions of greed and envy, and abetted by their captive captains of communication in the media and academia, the assault on the senses is endless and effective.
It has been a brilliant strategy and it has worked like a charm.
It’s hard to see a pathway out of it that doesn’t depend on violence.
I totally agree with your analysis of Obama and his malicious, manipulative balkanization of Americans; his deliberate act of herding people, whom he considers pawns in his game, into ‘identity groups’ and then pitting them against each other. I feel that he likes to sit back and watch people fighting each other; it makes him feel powerful.
And I agree – that the pathway out might involve violence. After all, think of the ‘energy’ involved in keeping people apart from each other and hostile to each other. It will take energy/violence to break this force.
But my point is only that reality trumps the imaginary realm – and even if this involves a violent rejection of the imaginary world – that rejection will still occur. Indeed, I’d say that the rejection does involve violence because the imaginary realm is smothering, insidious…like an algae, a fungus, that creeps up on you. It requires strength to peel it off.
But it hasn’t ‘worked like a charm’. People are becoming aware of these smothering tentacles (geez, I’m using a lot of metaphors…) and starting to realize it, talk about it and reject it.
Obama is fighting hard, but he’s incapable of dealing with the real world, so he’s still in the imaginary world..and people are realizing this.
I don’t think we can hope to experience no violence in this rejection; the imaginary world empowers a LOT of people and they will resist giving up this power.
fyi, my comments are about all of the leftist aristocrats who have been subverting the west for decades, not just Obama, who is a front-man and a usurper, not the architect of the strategy. His ascension was an preliminary and unexpected culmination to a decades long strategy that he had nothing to do with. As with everything else in his life, he has just been along for the ride. And now the fool thinks he is in charge and is mucking up the works.
I’m sure that the leftist strategists are surprised that he rose so quickly. He is very young and inexperienced, even for a revolutionary. They must be frantic right now with his performance, since it looked like they had a lock on total victory. His incompetance and ego have given their enemies a chance to reverse the tide. But they are stuck with him and he isn’t as easy to control as he was before he became Little Lenin.
If we turn this around, we will look back and be happy it was him.
Good back’n'forth, guys. Love it. However, the human race is not in stasis.
Massively large generations of Eloi have already been nurtured by the masters of the imaginary, and they already outnumber us.
And there’s no comeback from that.
I generally like to find at least a small upside, but if one takes the long view, the prognosis isn’t good.
The US has been a wonderful experiment that has had remarkable results, but it hasn’t stopped the wannabe tyrants for even a second. They could care frigging less about the shower of riches this country has bestowed on the world. They still want their inpregnable thrones and they want them now.
And since the experiment has been so short, and is so unique, there is no historical record to give a clue to the outcome. All we really have to go on is what has happened in the other 9700 years of civilization, and the current state of affairs. The other 9700 years is ugly. Don’t go there, the tyrants have always prevailed; always. The current state of affairs is a bit better, but it’s hardly a given that freedom will win out. And considering the breadth and depth of the attacks, particularly the success of the subversion since the 1950′s, despite hundreds of millions of people living in the land of milk and honey; and considering the frailty of humanity, particularly greed and envy, my view is that before very long, the US will fall. In the short run, let’s hope not, because I’m not looking forward to grovelling in the dirt with the other peasants.
I look at it differently. I don’t see the US – and please don’t ignore that this different type of societal organization began in the west, particularly in England – is an ‘experiment’. It’s not a choice.
I link the societal/political organization directly to the economic mode. And I link the economic mode directly to the population size..and that, before industrialism, was linked directly to the ecological realities of that society.
So: ecology> population size>economy> political organization. And economically, remember the triad: investment, production, consumption.
These are realities. Now, what’s the relationship?
A political mode has to enable an economic mode. And economic mode has to support a particular size population. If any of these three are ‘out of sync’- then, there’s trouble.
Human beings, on this earth, emerged as our species, about 100,000 years ago. For the first 40,000 years, the primary economic mode was Hunting and Gathering. This mode does NOT INVEST; that is, it does not ‘make’ the environment produce more plants/animals; they are not domesticated and are left wild. Such an economy PRODUCES no food and only CONSUMES a small amount of food, support a small population and is almost always migratory. You eat your way out and move on. The political mode was – an external metaphyiscal authority (the spirits)..and humans were more or less equal with each other. Minimal to no leaders.
Then – we don’t know why – possibly climate change and a few degrees warmer – agriculture or ‘domestication of plants and animals’ emerged. This enabled settled populations. And enabled larger populations. This was the basic phase of tribalism, where people settled on ‘their land’, fought against others who might intrude. Economically, what was important was stability of PRODUCTION. No change, no growth, just maintaining the status quo in population size and food production.
Politically, this meant the emphasis was on the COLLECTIVE cohesion to PRODUCE food. And the emphasis was against any dissent, questions, deviations from this vital requirement for stable PRODUCTION. So in tribalism you get rigid authoritarian rules, hereditary transference of power and wealth (land) and denigration of the individual. This mode lacks flexibility, lacks the capacity to adapt and change..and changes usually come from external influences and are violent..or..the triad becomes unstable and the system implodes.
Then, in the 13th-14th century, in the West, which is the RICHEST biome on the planet, the capacity to increase the population, from this rich soil, regular rainfall, abundant animals/plants..kept increasing the population size. Beyond the carrying capacity of a tribal economy and political mode (which is what the medieval period was). It had to change to enable a different economic mode: not local agriculture but market agriculture. And eventually, industrial production.
The political mode had to change to empower, not the Holders of Stability, the aristocracy and landowners…but..the merchant class. That was democracy, which empowers the middle class, the producers-of-wealth. This class had to gain the wealth to INVEST in industrial production. And it is an open not hereditary class; and very flexible in outlook.
What this did – was to enable a massive increase in population around the world. This means, that we can’t go back to tribalism…which is what socialism, fascism, Islamism are all based around. We can’t disempower change, reject dissent, questions and the capacity-to-progress. The population is too large in the world. Not too large by millions but by billions.
So, democracy and capitalism are not ‘choices’; they are necessary methods of organizing an economic mode that is productive of wealth to invest; and a political mode that is flexible, plastic and can adapt to changing needs.
I think you have the general cultural and economic development of humo sapiens correct but you don’t take human nature into consideration. Economics doesn’t dictate; human nature dictates. And greed and envy are much more powerful emotions than altuism or even, it appears, self preservation, since culture after culture has obliterated itself throughout history.
And there isn’t any imperative for the planet to support billions of people either. Specifically our wannabe rulers deny that. They would prefer the planet to have less than a billion in a few decades. They will still be rich and powerful, and the view will be better.
So they manipulate, as they have alway done, not to maximize human potential, but to maximize their own power and wealth. It has always worked. There is no reason to believe it won’t always work, because it certainly has become a major counterbalancing force to the the rise of free markets. You would think that any idiot could look around and see the value of freedom. Yet here we are on the cusp of another feudal age.
I’m a data guy, not an artist or a dreamer. The data looks bleak.
I’m a realist; I don’t live in an imaginary world and so, the data matters. I agree.
But I think that, within a society, the economic infrastructure is the basic system, and within the human psyche – I don’t agree that greed and envy are basic. I think we have to add love, care, hope. Man is a complex animal and all these emotions are there.
As for ‘our rulers’ (?) wanting only a billion on the planet – heh- they can want all they want. That’s their imaginary world. They can’t control reality.
My point is that we must begin with reality, not the imaginary. That’s 7-9 billion. To sustain this size population, you need economies and populations that are productive, flexible, rapid-reactions. That’s only possible within a political mode that privileges the middle class, the private businesses. And only possible within an economic mode of capitalism.
So- despite the agendas of the utopian imaginary pundits – I remain optimistic. About the west, the US, and mankind.
You missed the point. The point is that they intend to achieve their population control goals by means of mass murder and world wars. They’ll get more than they bargained for because they’ll accomplish their goal, but neither they, nor any of their like-minded progeny will survive it.
Some nice paragraphs mid-way through about the disease called Barack Hussein Obama. But enough with the whining about Western civilization in desperate decline and the danger posed by Islamists showing up on the next flight to claim the prize denied them for fourteen hundred years by Western commonsense. Nearly everyone understands what these people are up to: that they are here to exploit Western tolerance to advance their silly Islam fixation; but they will never see their ambition realized for the simple reason that Islam has little to no appeal in the West. The Islamists know this, which is why they make a lot of noise and try to stir up controversy and even trouble on occasion. It is their perverse way of bringing attention to their anger that their mosques in the West are being filled each day by immigrant life-long believers and not by prized Westerners. They want to strike back at Western societies for this insult and for so consistently rejecting their religion, but not them as individuals. And as far as Islamists are concerned this is almost breathtakingly counter-intuitive—if you allow in Allah’s emissaries you allow in Allah. They just can’t get their Allah besotted heads around this phenomenal form of rejection; it’s as if we allow them into our societies just to insult them in this way. The author is right, though, when he infers that Western politicians are theoretically capable of giving these people a lot of what they want, but, then, wouldn’t this be true only if the entire government of the US was the Democratic Party? Note the effect that next year’s democalypse will have on your local Islamist.
from those wonderful folks who brought you Mein Kampf (read the tagline)…
METROPOLITAN BOOKS TO PUBLISH BITING, SATIRICAL ACCOUNT OF RICK PERRY’S RECORD AS GOVERNER OF TEXAS
BY JAMES C. MOORE AND JASON STANFORD
NEW YORK, August 16, 2011 – On the heels of Rick Perry’s announcement to run for president, Metropolitan Books, an imprint of Henry Holt and Company, announced today it will publish ADIOS MOFO: Why Rick Perry Will Make America Miss George W. Bush. Scheduled for an early 2012 publication, the book is a sharp, critical narrative of Rick Perry’s political career in Texas and his record on religion, guns, family values, and the economy. The book will be written by Austin-based journalist and commentator James C. Moore and Texas political consultant Jason Stanford and was acquired by Riva Hocherman, senior editor of Metropolitan Books.
ADIOS MOFO will track the current governor of Texas from his hometown in West Texas to his run for the White House, challenging his competence as a leader and laying bare the hollow truth of Perry’s “Texas Miracle.” Moore and Stanford will reveal a radical ideologue with scant interest or success in governing and present a picture of a country under his leadership. The title of the book, ADIOS MOFO, a phrase Perry used to mock a Houston correspondent has become shorthand in Texas political circles for the governor’s unchecked arrogance and incompetence in the Texas statehouse.
James C. Moore and Jason Stanford have deep contacts with numerous operatives in the Perry campaign and will detail stories the public has not yet heard. Moore, co-author of the New York Times bestseller Bush’s Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential, has been writing and reporting on Perry since the governor first came to Austin as a political client of Karl Rove in the 1980s, and Stanford, whose keen political insights have helped dozen of Democrats win public office, has run campaigns against Rick Perry. Their decades of experience as Texas journalist and political consultant will combine for an outrageous portrait of the presidential candidate.
“People need to know the guy behind the smile,” Moore and Stanford said. “Trouble often comes in attractive packaging. Rick Perry’s politics make George W. Bush look like George McGovern. We’ll give readers a very startling insight to what Perry’s ten year administration has done, not for Texas, but to Texas, and we’ll help them envision a country led by Perry. His heartless politics and ineptitude are as funny as they are frightening.”
Metropolitan Books acquired North American rights from Ellen Geiger of The Francis Goldin Literary Agency, Inc.
About Macmillan
Macmillan is a global publisher of books, magazines, textbooks, scientific information, and digital content and services. In the United States, the group includes Farrar, Straus and Giroux; Henry Holt and Company; St. Martin’s Press; Tor Books; Picador; Macmillan Audio; Bedford St. Martin’s; W. H. Freeman; Worth Publishers; i-clicker; Hayden-McNeil; Palgrave Macmillan; and Scientific American magazine.
Macmillan is a subsidiary of Verlagsgruppe Georg von Holtzbrinck, GMbH, a global media company based in Stuttgart, Germany.
What we happening today was foretold thousands of years ago. It is neither shocking or surprising. My words may offend some and those not offended may dismiss what I say entirely. So be it. I take comfort in the words of Maimonides, ” After all I am a man who- if the subject urges him, and if he knows of no other way to teach a proven truth except by appealing to one chosen man, even if failing to appeal to ten thousand fools- prefers imparting the truth to this one man. I do not heed the complaints of the greater crowd, and wish to wrest the one chosen man from his irresoluteness and show him the way out of his perplexity so that he may become perfect and sound. ”
The Almighty is Eternal. What does that mean? First it acknowledges His existence from before time and the universe began. That is generally understood. Yet it also means that time for The Almighty is not as time measured by mankind. All time, all existence is as nothing to the Almighty and it is apparent that He can ” experience ” time as He sees fit. Thus He is in all time and at all times. His Judgement is eternal as He experiences time at His whim as Mankind rises and falls in history.
Our perception of history is limited by human cognition as wee seek to understand the world we live in. And the ability to deny reality is as old as Cain’s denial that he murdered Abel. Yet from The Almighty nothing is hidden.
An eye blink ago six million Jews were turned to ash. Men, women and children. This was not some offense committed in the middle of the night. This occurred over years and the ” great nations ” did nothing. Even when finally acting it was only in self interest not to save human lives. This does not take away from the courage and sacrifice of those who ultimately fought the great evil. It was simply the great moral breakdown of national governance. After all the German war machine did not act alone.
Do not forget that it was through The Jews that The Almighty revealed Himself. Indeed it is through The Jews that the word of G-d was spread through the world. It is the Torah that both Christianity and islam draw their roots from. Without Torah neither Christianity or Islam has a past. If Moses did not live what is the Christian Bible? Or the Koran? It is through the Torah that both of these popular religions learned of Moses.
Today The Jews are under attack. Everywhere. You know that. Yet you would think that after so much suffering being inflicted upon us the thought of attacking Jews would be heinous to civilized man. Yet it is not so. The President of the United States has the impudence to demand Jews not build in Jerusalem. As if history, all history, does not exist. Yet for The Master of the Universe all history is alive before Him.
Today there is no regret for Auschwitz. There is not regret for Treblinka. There is no regret for the St.Louis. These are just names in history books. But the anguish and suffering of millions is constantly before the Almighty even as Man washes his hands and his mind, as his soul pours down the drain.
After two thousand years we have seen the dry bones rise. We have seen ingathering at a time when nothing else would save the Jews. This is the moment when the world stands at the precipice. Read the following with an open mind.
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” The rapid changes on both a technological and sociological level will result in a great social upheaval. The cataclysmic changes will result in considerable suffering, often referred to as the Hevlei Mashiah or Birthpangs of the Messiah. If the Messiah comes with miracles, these “birthpangs” may be avoided, but the great changes involved in his coming in the manner adopted by Maimonides may make these terrible travails inevitable.
Since in a period of such accelerated change parents and children will grow up in literally different worlds, traditions handed from father to son will be among the major casualties. The Talmud describes at length how there will be general dissatisfaction with the values of religion-in such a rapidly changing world, people will naturally be enamored with the new and dissatisfied with the old. Thus, the sages teach that neither parents nor the aged will be respected, the old will have to seek favors from the young, and a man’s household will become his enemies. Insolence will increase, people will no longer have respect, and none will offer reproof. Religious studies will be despised and used by nonbelievers to strengthen their cause, the government will become godless, academies will be places of indiscretion, and the religious will be denigrated.
In the generation when the Messiah comes, young men will insult the old, and old men will stand before the young [to give them honor]; daughters will rise up against their mothers, and daughters-in-law against their mothers-in-law. The people shall be dog-faced, and a son will not be abashed in his father’s presence. It has been taught, R. Nehemiah said: In the generation of the Messiah’s coming impudence will increase, esteem be perverted. [Sanhedrin 97a]
The Wisdom of the learned will degenerate; fearers of sin will be despised; and the truth will be lacking. Youths will put old men to shame. [Sotah 49b]
Judaism will suffer greatly because of these upheavals. There is a tradition that the Jews will split up into various groups, each laying claim to the truth, as the Talmud says, “Our truth shall be divided into flocks” (Sanhedrin 97a). This will make it exceedingly difficult, almost impossible, to discern true Judaism from the false. This is the meaning of the prophecy, “Truth will fail” (Isaiah 59:15).
Maimonides, in his Epistle to Yemen even predicted that many will leave the fold of Judaism completely, without mali ciously intending to do harm to the Jewish people, and the nation shall suffer immensely as a result of their actions. This is how our sages interpret the prophecy, “The wicked shall do wickedly, and not understand” (Daniel 12:10)..
Of course, there will he some Jews who remain true to their traditions. They will realize that they are witnessing the death throes of a degenerate old order and will not be drawn into it. But they will suffer all the more for this, and be dubbed fools for not conforming to the liberal ways of the premessianic age. This is the meaning of the prophecy (Isaiah 59:15), “He who departs from evil will be considered a fool” (Sanhedrin 97a).”
http://www.moshiach.com/topics/what/the-moshiach-in-our-time.php
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Thanks for reading. MBY
Gay Marriage, illegal immigration, militant Islam, free money for deadbeats, free money for college, government must oversee all charity, the push of religion out of the public sphere, abortion, easy divorce.
But hey, Rome did not go down because of one of these, it was a whole group of things, all completely entered into voluntarily by the Romans. So when I argue that gays should be so marginalized as to not be a visible component of the culture, I have reason to do so. When I argue that Social Security needs to be fully and absolutely repealed, even for those currently in collecting years, I have a reason to do so.
I even give the full reasoning for it, and it is precisely this as the reason. I explain how the gay lifestyle, social security, abortion (self explanatory i think) leads to the death of a nation. Social Security severs the benefit of having children to support you in your old age from actually having the children yourself, hope and pray someone else has the children while you benefit from the money and time you never spent raising children who will then be forced by law to support you in your old age. Gays cannot have children, so they are absolute benefactors in this transfer of responsibility. It does not matter how much money you have available in your old age if there just simply are not enough children to care for you.
“Only a god can save us now.”
I disagree. What will save us are the efforts of ordinary citizens who still hold to their principles and values (those deemed “bitter clingers” by certain elites). Sure, the Roman Empire fell, but Rome itself is still there, and it’s still full of Romans (who aren’t, to be sure, all descended from the original founders).
Western civilization is in crisis, but it will never disappear. It’s roots have penetrated the entire world, even in those places where it seems least influential. Communism couldn’t defeat it, and even fundamental Islam, that insidious technique for brainwashing, is most clearly defined by what it opposes.
Nobody said all this was going to be easy (or, to put it as my mother used to say, “Whoever said life was fair?”). But easy isn’t always worthwhile, either.
“Its roots”, not “it’s roots”. Gawd, I hate grammatical mistakes and whenever I skip preview.
Damn! I just did the same thing below. But with “your” instead of “you’re.”
You’re not alone, I mess up contractions all of the time when I’m typing too fast.
hehe
Boy, I’m hearing a lot of whining here without many answers offered. (How very liberal.) Okay, okay. We all get it and we’re all on the same page. Now, do we slouch our way to Gomorra or do something about it?
The left will never change. They have developed their own new beliefs and values that differ from our own. They will never “come around.” That’s fantasy. Nor would I every want to convince–or heaven forbid, coerce–them to accept that their path to happiness is wrong. Its none of my business.
What is my business is having the freedom to pursue my own happiness. And–realistically–the only way to do that is to agree to disagree and amicable divide this country. This is a direct path to an answer to all this fretting and naval-gazing. It solves the problem and insures the continuation of Western Civilization.
If you all truely believe what your saying and understand the gravity of the problem, I would think you would see it as both appropriate and prudent to make a bold choice now . . . while we still have the political strength to do so. Otherwise, our children will end up spitting on OUR graves.
“The left will never change.”
Noooooo. The ‘Left’ might not ‘change’, but many “Lefties” do change. Roger L. Simon was an ex-lefty and so are many bloggers here.
So, take heart. The “Lefties” just need a few reality-checks upside the head (and, frankly, I think they are getting it in spades lately).
The thing is, we can’t sit on our laurels coming the next election. No matter what ‘Conservative’ candidate wins the nomination, even if we don’t like them or wish we had a different person, we have to hold our noses and vote so that mofo B.O. is OUTTA HERE!
Here me, soldier?!
At ease. For now.
-And by “here” me, I meant “hear” me.
But, you knew that, right? Dangit! LOL!
David, I also think the present system is going to collapse. So there will be hard times. But why can’t these lead to a renewal of the Western habits of thought? How is some radically Other system of thought going to be imposed on the survivors? Is there a better (viable in any way) alternative out there to meet the basic needs people will have than a renewal of individual freedom and responsibility?
One should not despair too much. I tend to think that our norms are always in a process of erosion and dissolution, until the rare moments of renewal; and then things all start to erode again. We need to think less about how exactly to foretell the coming collapse – what’s the point? it’s not likely that there’s anything we can do about it now: you can’t radically re-engineer the present ways of representing and organizing reality until people, with all their institutionalized interests and habits, widely give up on them because they have had the unmistakable revelation of their failure. We need to think more about how we will begin to pick up the pieces after the collapse. We need essays on the building blocks of Western culture, on our poetics.
“…Constantine Cavafy’s effete Romans…”
Too much inch deep, mile wide education is how I diagnose your problem, David. You quote scumbag Toynbee but you miss entirely the glaring parallel between the challenges to Western Civilization in our day and the challenges to Western Civilization under the Caesars.
That Rome collapsed of its own Pagan licentiousness and corruption is a Christian myth. Nor were the Ancient Romans poisoned and driven to suicidal dementia by lead in their aqueducts and water pipes. The sturdy virtues that made Rome great were rotted out by Christianity.
Christians preen that theirs is the religion that conquered an empire. If so, their conquest was the that of a rapidly metastasizing cancer over a healthy body. As Christianity fatally weakened and destroyed Rome, so socialism weakens and destroys Western civilization today.
Christians don’t recognize this parallel because their ironic evolutionary transformation from urban gangs under seditious gangster Bishops in Ancient Rome into the conservative guardians of Western Civilization today would require intellectually honest reflection which, for Christians, is a great challenge. You are a Jew and you have no such excuse.
Rome collapsed because her energies and treasure were sapped by the aggressively inclusive Gentile New Israel. The fatal encounter between Rome and Judea occurred under Julius Caesar when he was an ambitious Triumvir and Pontifus Maximus of Rome and John Hyrcanus II was King and High Priest of the Jews. The two priest-royals got on like a house afire. Judean soldiery had bailed Gaius of the Julii out of a near fatal fix and the future dictator was eternally grateful.
Something of an ethnographer, Caesar was always interested in the history of the peoples he encountered and often conquered. Seventy years before the birth of the Christian Christ, Caesar declared the Jews an ancient and venerable people and their faith an ancient and venerable religion. At a time when Celts, Germans and Goths were chattel for the slave markets or forced conscripts for the legions, Jews lived and traded freely the length and breadth of the Roman Empire. Theirs was the most favored nationality in the Roman Empire.
Jews were exempt from one seventh their financial obligations to the Empire in deference to their prohibition against work on Sabbath. A statue of the iconoclast Abraham was erected in the city of Rome and the blessedly broadminded Romans saw no irony in it.
That the Romans and the Jews got on so well is counterintuitive. The Romans openly mocked the Jewish notion of an invisible deity without name, substance, form or shape. But they weren’t threatened by the idea. Firstly, it was too absurd for any rational Roman to buy into. Secondly, Judaism was an exclusive faith. The Jews didn’t proselytize.
This situation changed radically with Saul of Tarsus. Saul, or Paul as the Church renamed him, reconstructed Judaism into the hungrily inclusive cult of the fallen and risen Christ. The Greco-Judaic God of the New Israel of the Gospels had a name a shape and a form and his Gentile followers programmatically and enthusiastically proselytized.
Suddenly the empire was under threat from within. The early Bishops were profoundly seditious rabble-rousers and violent mob inciters, closer to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan than to John Hagee or any contemporary American Catholic or Episcopal Bishop. Policing Roman cities began to sap the energies and resources of Caesar and the legions. Caesar could no longer muster the strength to resist the barbarians pressing in on the borders. Every gathering of the legions in the field to repel invaders resulted in a shortage of Imperial peacekeepers in the cities. This signaled rival Bishops to call out their faithful to settle subtle questions of Christian theology and decide which bishp was top dog with bloody slugfests in the streets. Every campaign against hostile Barbarians was weakened by provincial governors diverting critically needed legions to quell domestic rioting and impose peace on treasonous Christians, hostile to everything Rome traditionally stood for, battling for theological and political dominance.
Rome was destroyed because she failed to snuff Christianity in its swaddling. Not for lack of trying. But the Roman campaign against the Christian cancer consuming it from within was inconsistent. Ferocious Imperial repression and forced reconversion by one patriotic conservative Caesar was followed by the weak-willed liberal measures toward Christians of the next.
Fast forward to the modern world. Unlike Germany and Japan the Soviet Union was allowed to get away with years of enmity and aggression toward the United States. No punishment was meted out for the Communist slaughter of countless millions. Russian cities did not burn like Dresden and Hiroshima. Here in the United States Soviet agents, fellow travelers and loyal sympathizers were not brought to account. As a result, former KGB boss Putin rules Russia while here in the US, former Soviet sympathizers and promoters continue to infest our educational and cultural institutions as well as our foreign policy establishment.
Students in American high schools continue to be taught that exposing seditious socialists and communist is akin to witch hunting. But witches are fictional creatures from fairy tales while socialists and communists are very real and very dangerous.
African Americans continue to depend on government and the dismal conclusion black leaders like Obama have reached is that African Americans cannot compete in a merit based, competitive, capitalist system. But America must resist conversion into a race normed, intelligence normed, education normed and income normed socialist utopia of the lame and the halt just because African Americans can’t get their act together and stop suckling on the federal teat.
Socialism in America needs to be stamped out. Leftist academics, journalists, diplomats and politicians must be driven from important and influential places in our society. If we waiver or we are inconsistent, we will inevitably suffer the fate of the Ancient Romans.
Feed them to the Christians, eh?
Can you source this version early Christianity?
Dwight:
Pleasure, Dwight. When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome. Authored by Richard Rubenstein and available in paperback.
The Vatican, civil and ecumenicist in its modern incarnation, gave unprecedented unlimited access to its libraries to a Harvard educated American Jewish professor of conflict resolution and When Jesus Became God is the result. I wonder whether the Vatican will ever ever be so honestly welcoming of honest scholarship again.
Rubenstein is an amusing and engaging writer and his subject is fascinating and often downright funny. Anastasius, the rascally Bishop of Alexandria is a hoot. Never more than one step ahead of the Imperial police, Anastasius skips town whenever legionnaires are in the vicinity. His invasion of a rival Bishop’s Bishopric, smashing his Bishop’s throne and breaking his bones in the bargain, is a laugh riot. The birth of the Prince of Peace may have been immaculate; the birth of his Holy Mother Church was bloody and violent.
The aftermath of Rome’s last great battle, witnessed by legions diverted for urban policework and arrived too late upon a battlefield littered with Roman dead, is heart-rending. The hungry and freezing Goths have stripped the dead legionnaires of every stitch. The corpse of the last Caesar is never found. Not long thereafter, the power vacuum left by the fall of Rome is filled by the invading followers of the a Arab Prophet . The riotous and seditious Eastern Christians who smashed each others skulls over obscurantist points of Christian theology and the political dominance of one Bishop over another were down on hands and knees five times a day worshiping Allah and his Holy Messenger.
Today Western Civilization is once again being treasonously consumed from within. And the Muslims are once again waiting in the wings to pick up the marbles. Get the historic implication, Dwight?
Rubenstein’s book is an altogether informative and delightful read. Enjoy it.
Anyone who can’t tell that the Gospels contain prima facie claims of divinity on the part of Jesus (such as claiming the right to judge mankind to the exclusion of the Father, forgiving sins on his own authority, accepting worship and applying divine names and titles to Himself) doesn’t know what he’s talking about and isn’t worth listening to. God killed the heretic Arius, not any mortal.
David, are you by any chance Jewish by blood? If not, are you an occultist who wants to revive the worship of the Hellenistic deities? I ask because the level of vitriol and false accusations I’m getting from you only make any sense coming from either a member of the Hellenist religion or an apostate Jew. You seem to have no qualms about throwing around blood libel, that’s for sure.
Daivd, good riddance to that wicked empire! Rome collapsed because the Christians saw no value in defending an empire that murdered hundreds of thousands of Christians. Rome was incapable of snuffing out Christianity because for every Christian they martyred, three more pagans converted to Christianity. The one thing that could snuff out Christianity, the corpse of Jesus Christ, was something the Romans couldn’t use because they didn’t have it, because He is Risen!
Oh, and you can’t blame the Christians for the fact that pagan Romans stopped bothering to work or reproduce. Christians worked, Christians reproduced, and Christians, despite praying for the Empire’s destruction or conversion, never took up arms against it, unlike the Jewish Zealots, with their multitude of false messiahs. Non-Christian Jews fought the Empire and lost; Christian Jews and Gentiles alike prayed against the Empire and endured persecution unto death and thereby overturned the Empire.
Bite your tongue, Myth Buster. The Romans were a magnificent people. Whole nations sheltered peacefully under the Roman Eagles for a long, long time. The Romans were ferocious and cruel but they were also open minded and fair.
After the Third Punic War, fully 6000 Carthaginians hung from crosses along the roads to a ruined Carthage. The destruction of Jerusalem and the maddened torture and slaughter of its Jewish inhabitants was worse.
Consider this, however. While Roman legionaires were laying waste to Jerusalem, their brother legionaires in Rome cordoned off the Jewish quarter and Jewish homes and businesses and forcefully protected Jewish citizens from the dissolute Roman mob, eager for mayhem and loot while feelings against the Jews were running high. The Jewish citizens of Rome survived unscathed.
Fast forward to modern day France. Why are the French Jews almost gone from a land where they have lived for well over a thousand years? Because French Catholic politicians and policemen will not protect French Jews from French Muslims assaulting torturing and murdering them. The French Jews recall the French Catholic policemen who enthusiastically loaded Jewish children onto trains bound for German death camps before their German overlords even requested they do so. The French Jews pack their bags and head for Canada. Israel. The US. Anywhere Catholic morality doesn’t hold sway.
Consider Crown Heights this 20th anniversary of that event. A black mayor orders the NYPD to stand down as black rioters assault and terrorize American Jewish citizens in the streets of Brooklyn. A black minister named Al Sharpton appears in a black turtleneck shirt with and enormous silver cross and arouses the mob with classic, hoary Christological allusions and imagery of evil Pharisees and Christ killers.
The cops, Roman Catholic in their overwhelming majority put their hands in their pockets for three days while defenseless Jewish families with small children cower in their homes.
As for Julius Caesar, who, like Xerxes who released the Jews from Babylonian exile, the Jews gratefully called Messiah, he was a true colossus among mere men, not seen again in the world until, perhaps, Winston Churchill. Suetonius, the contemporary Roman historian who witnessed it, records that the Jews were inconsolable at the assassination of their great Roman savior and protector. All Judah was in sackcloth and ashes.
And Nero, Domitian, and others had my brethren beheaded, crucified, burned alive and fed to ravenous beasts for sport! All because they would not worship the emperor! I don’t care what appearance of culture they had, the pagans were ravenous beasts that engaged in the unprovoked massacre of my brethren. Their empire richly deserved to be overturned. Tell me, why should the Christians have defended an empire that wanted them dead for no reason?
They hated us without a cause. No, it’s wrong to use the past tense, because that hatred is still alive and well in this world. They hate us without a cause. They slanderously accused us of being cannibals. That is the original blood libel- predating by centuries the blood libel against the Jews. They accused us of murdering people and consuming their flesh and blood. They also falsely accused us of engaging in orgies. Those pagans who did not persecute the Christians were the ones with the common sense to know that the charges against us were baseless, aside from refusing to worship the emperor, but if that be treason, I’ll gladly be called a traitor.
No, I will not bite my tongue! Rather, I shall shout and sing the praises of the Savior who overturned the empire that slaughtered many saints! Hosanna in the Highest! Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!
Get hold, Myth Buster. The Christians were anything but innocent. Your saints were criminals. Your Church fathers were that and worse. No one deserves torture, but that was the Roman way in the ancient world. When the Church gained dominance it was every bit as cruel as the Romans. You need a history lesson.
Also, you are a mite loose with language MB.You speak of false Messiahs when you don’t know the meaning of the word. Christians know as much about the meaning of “Messiah” as Muslims know the meaning of “Prophet.” Likewise “Hossana.” Stop using Hebrew words you don’t understand.
Finally there is the insulting word “Pagan.” Greeks and Romans deserve far better. They contributed a great deal more to the world than the Church. You’re not in Catholic school rooting for the home team. Grow up.
The only crime my brethren were guilty of was rejecting the Roman religion. I refuse to retract my statements. With God as my witness, I testify that the Roman Empire was a hideous abomination that murdered Christians because the pagans hated God, and for no other reason. If it be treason to call out the emperor as a blasphemer when he demands worship, then I am a traitor and proud of it! I’ll pagans what they are- pagans. I have zero respect for mass murderers and those who tolerate them. Neither will I let your blood libel and praise for tyrants go unanswered. Jesus Christ is King, let all Creation bend the knee to Him.
And by the way, I know what “Hossanna” means. It means, “Save us.” “Messiah” means “Anointed One,” and it is a synonym for “Christ.” In the context of Judaism, and by extension, Christianity, it refers to the One sent by God to bring salvation. It is in light of this definition that I call the Zealot leaders false messiahs, because they claimed to be the Messiah, but were not.
Myth Buster:
Help me out here MB. If you really and truly believe the nonsense you’re spouting why do you call yourself “Myth Buster?” Wouldn’t “Myth Believer” be more accurate? Or “Truth Buster?”
Let’s take it step by step, MB, because you are neither learned nor swift. (Forgive my insult; you are a grown and presumably intelligent man and I refuse to treat you like a stupid child.)
“…I know what “Hossanna” means. It means, “Save us.”
Not quite, MB. Your failing is mainly one of proper manners and respect in addressing the Lord of Hosts. “Hosea” means “save;” “us” is not implicit. The Hebrew suffix “na” means “please.” When a proper worshiper stands before his Creator and Judge and begs salvation, he says “please.” Hosanna is a compound word, “hoshea’na that translates to ” save me, please.” Hebrew is a consonantal language absent vowels (the Hebrew Bible weighs less by a third and requires only two thirds the ink and paper to produce than the Hebrew Bible portion of the King James translation) and, of course, its original pronunciation is unknown.
“…“Messiah” means “Anointed One,”
Close again, MB, but no cigar. A Messiah is someone anointed in Holy Oil. Holy Oil is the first pressing of the choicest olives by the High Priest (Kohen Gadol). The practice of anointing Kings was introduced by the Prophet Samuel.
With whom leadership of the Tribes of Israel resided was an ancient dispute among the Hebrews. The Patriarch Jacob (Israel) who fathered the Twelve Sons preferred Joseph, his eleventh and favorite son from his favorite wife. The popular choice of Jacob’s sons was Judah, the fourth son and their natural leader. A thousand years and more thereafter, the Prophet Samuel anoints a Benjaminite King following the preference of Jacob/Israel, the patriarch. (Benjamin is Joseph’s son and King Saul is his descendant.) Saul flubs the job and the Prophet Samuel strips him of the Kingship and anoints David the Judean in his place. The tribe of Benjamin the scorpion (Scorpio) is out of power and the tribe of Judah the Lion (Leo) is in. The Jewish (Judean) kingship becomes rooted forever in the House of David and the Tribe of Judah the same way the Priesthood is rooted in the House of Aharon and the tribe of Levi.
Unfortunately, the word “Anointed” or “Messia,” “Mashiakh” in Hebrew, is easily confused with the word “savior,” or “Mosheah.” For the various Messianic cults, this is readily conflated into “Savior King.” “Melech ha’Mashiach” in Hebrew translates literally to “the Anointed King” but the term linguistically/historically/culturally/religiously implies “(prophesied) savior.” Following all this, MB?
“…and it is a synonym for “Christ.”
Not by a long shot, MB. I don’t read Greek but if “Messiah” is so historically, culturally and religiously loaded a word for a Jew, there is every reason to believe that “Christ” was equally freighted for an ancient Helene.
A people’s faith represents its unique intellectual, historical, cultural and spiritual sum. Greeks are not Jews and Jews are not Greeks. “Christ” does not mean “Messiah” and “Messiah” does not mean “Christ.”
Christianity is an amalgam of Jewish and Hellenic ideas. The “Creator” (“El” a widely worshiped pre-Jewish deity whose name became generic in usage) of the Torah or Hebrew Bible is invisible, unnamed, shapeless and formless. He is described plainly, if unfathomably, in the Book of Genesis as a “RuaKh” (wind or spirit) blowing on the “faces” (surface) of “t’hom” (the deep; fathomless depths) when the world was “tohu vaVohu” (that way and this; hither and yon; chaos). Modern Jews refer to the spirit as “ha’Shem,” literally, “the Name” because no human utterance or nomenclature will contain it.
The Greek God Zeus is a child of the Titans. In Greek belief, he and his family live on Mt. Olympus. With the rise of Rome and its absorption of the Greek Empire and its culture, Zeus says ‘fa scata, losers’ to the Greeks, changes his name to Jupiter and moves his family to the seven hills of Rome where the important people are and important things are happening.
Zeus is mainly preoccupied with chasing flawless mortal virgins with his jealous wife Hera hot on his trail. Ha’Shem mainly yearns for a just, free and peaceful mankind, which is His own beloved creation. A combination of Zeus of the Greeks and the Creator of the Jews is hard to imagine. The two peoples are culturally oil and water. A blend seems impossible. It would require a shotgun marriage of two diametrically opposed “belief systems.”
The marriage happens at a place called Nicaea. The guy holding the shotgun is the Emperor Constantine. Gathering a pack of viciously feuding and backbiting Christian Bishops into one place for a meeting is no small feat even for a Roman Emperor. Like herding spitting and snarling wildcats.
And the Church Fathers are supremely arrogant. Jealous of their positions and sensitive to every slight, the Bishops look down their noses at those of humbler social or ecclesiastical station. The finest lights in the Christian firmament, the very scholars and thinkers whose ideas are at the center of Christian discussion and debate, are scanted and sneered at by the Bishops championing their ideas.
Constantine knows the Bishops and their sleazy character well. The only thing the Bishops respect is the point of a sword and in Nicaea, Constantine has them all in one place with his soldiery in place and the threat is very real. Constantine is Pontifus Maximus. He demands that before the Bishops leave Nicea, all the fractious debating that is roiling the Christians in every Roman city must come to an end. One unified definition of God will be agreed upon by the Bishops or they will answer with their careers, their freedom, or their lives.
Constantine is a Helios (sun) worshiper as are the Imperial Legions. He sacrifices to Sol Invictus and keeps the Sun-day holy. Contrary to Christian myth, the Caesars and the legions remain Helios worshipers until the fall of the Empire.
Constantine’s driving obsession is orderly retreat, the most challenging and difficult maneuver any general has to face. And Constantine is not merely pulling back troops. He is commanding the retreat of Western Civilization into Asia. Rome is no longer defensible. A unified populace is critical. The Christian infighting and rioting in Roman cities must end.
Constantine wastes no time defining for the Bishops the kind of composite, all-inclusive, works-for-everybody, kind of Christian deity their Emperor wants them to come up with. By way of illustration, Constantine tells the gathering of holy men of a vision he had eight years ago on the eve of a great battle. The Bishops don’t know the story because the great General and Emperor never breathed a word to anybody about his vision before. Saved the telling of his great religious experience all these years just so he could reveal it to Their Reverences at this important moment in Nicaea.
Seems Constantine looked up to Holy Sol blazing in the heavens eight years earlier and saw a cross imposed on His Godly face. The holy men mark the meaning of this great miracle revealed by their Lord and Emperor, scratch their heads, pull on their beards and come up with a definition of God for Christian posterity. It is deliberately obscure, internally contradictory and utterly absurd but it is articulated smoothly in words and tones worthy of a great Church document. In any event, it satisfies the Emperor and allows the Bishops to keep their heads.
After four hundred years of factious and bloody feuding, Christianity finally has a God all Christians can agree upon. At long last, a Helios worshiping emperor has ended Christian hatred and bloodshed in the Roman streets and imposed peace on the narrow-minded Christians and their greedy and ambitious Bishops.
The shotgun marriage is accomplished. The spanking new Christian theology combines the Greek Gods of the flesh in human form with the Hebrew Creator. Irrepressibly horny and delightfully human, Zeus of Olympus is now inextricably One with the remote El of the Hebrew’s Book of Genesis, a formless and invisible spirit imbued with reason and moral purpose. At Nicaea, Jew-Zeus is born.
But a Father and Son do not make a Trinity and the Christians have to wait a generation longer for another meeting of holy men at Cappadocia before a Holy Ghost, equal in divine weight and stature to the Father and the Son is firmly installed.
A precise definition of the Holy Ghost, this Judean Hebrew can’t provide, MB. I’ve asked some very smart and learned Jewish friends but none of them have a clue. I guess it’s what the Church calls a “Mystery.” Like “Triune Monotheism” which, to an ignorant Jew, sounds like an oxymoron. By the dim lights of a dumb Hebrew, three doesn’t equal one and one doesn’t equal three. Another “Mystery,” I guess.
Finally MB, your take on false messiahs is as confused as your take on Messiahs genuine. During the Babylonian exile, Xerxes was legitimate king over the Jews. Isaiah calls Xerxes “Messiah” in text. Do I believe you, MB, or the Prophet Isaiah in holy text?
What of Julius Caesar, a demigod descended from Venus who, among his many offices, served as Pontifus Maximus and was Imperial Dictator over the Jews? Think John Hyrcanus as High Priest and King of the Jews, would refuse his bosom buddy, if Julius Caesar asked for a holy Hebrew lube job? The Romans were sexually omnivorous and the Hellenist-leaning Levite-royals were bitterly condemned by the Pharisees for practicing the Greek Way. Gaius and John were good buddies. Would John refuse to rub some of that greasy Jewish kid stuff into Gaius’ hair?
Xerxes and Caesar each ruled an enormous empire uniting hundreds of nationalities. By any definition each was a King of Kings. Each saved the Jews in terrible times and insured their prosperity and survival. Each fit the definition of the Hebrew “Melech Moshea” or “Savior King.” Did the two Gentiles fit the definition of “Melech Mashiach,” “Anointed King?” Quite possibly.
But what of Jesus who you call “Christ” and insist is the King Messiah of the Jews who was crucified for you sins, MB? Xerxes and Caesar ruled over the Jews. Did Jesus? So why do you call him “King” and “King of Kings?” Did he ever rule over anybody but six or seven down-in-the-heels disciples? (“Twelve” disciples don’t exist in the Gospel narratives; this is a fraudulent patterning on the twelve tribes, one of many such deliberate falsehoods and obfuscations by the Church).
Did Jesus save the Jews? No. Was he anointed? Certainly not in text. Search the entire Christian Canon—Paul’s writings and the anonymous documents the Church assign fictitious authorship to called the “Gospels”—nowhere will you find evidence of Jesus being anointed by a Priest with Holy Oil. Messiah he was not.
Add to this the odd genealogy in the Gospel of “Mark” attempting to prove that Jesus was descended from the house of David. The Jewish Kingship is patrilineal. If Jesus was fathered by God the genealogy is absurd. He can’t be king. “Mark” apparently did not believe in the Immaculate Conception.
Is it possible that Joshua was anointed without mention in the text as Xerxes and Caesar may have been? Not likely, MB. He was a poor Judean from Galilee. The High Priest was fabulously wealthy and occupied an entirely different social stratum. And Jesus was an enemy of the priests who were the keepers of the Holy Oil.
If there is any truth at all to the Christian foundation myth, it may be that Joshua of Galilee was a Judean pretender to the Jewish throne. The kingship of the priests was illegitimate. The Kingship belonged to the Judeans not the Levites. The Levites had seized the kingship through their leadership in the rebellion against the Hellenized Syrians. The Levites defeated the Helenes and rededicated the temple and instituted the (only) post-Biblical eight-day Jewish holiday of Chanukah to commemorate their salvage of a single cruet of Holy Oil for the temple service that, according to the Chanukah legend, lasted fully eight days.
By the time of the Galilean, the priesthood (Kehunah) was an abysmally corrupt ruling class allied with the increasingly oppressive Romans and widely hated by the Jewish people. Intellectual and spiritual leadership of the Children of Israel had shifted from the Aharonic Levites to the blessed Pharisee Rabbis who were mainly Judeans and of whom the Galilean was almost certainly one. The Pharisees, who the Christians hate, kept Judaism alive and insured its survival.
If the Galilean was reaching for the throne of the Judean Shepherd-King David, he was very dangerous to the usurper Levite royals no less than the rapaciously greedy local Roman governors who were their allies. If indeed the Romans charged him with treason and mocked his claim to the throne with a crown of thorns is not surprising. Nor would it be surprising that the Levite royals would be glad to see him gone.
But the Sanhedrin was the Jewish Supreme Court, comprised of the smartest, most pious of Jews. The Levite royals were a source of shame and an object of contempt to such upright men. The Sanhedrin were the very best and brightest of the people who wrote the Bible, Old Testament and New. The people who introduced the idea of a Just Lord and a moral universe. The people who wrote the laws that you live under as an American (American law is based on British common law rooted in the Hebrew Bible). The people whose ancient literature, practices and customs are the basis of Christianity and Islam. The people whose ancient faith you are practicing without any license, MB.
Such men followed Biblical commandment to the letter. The Hebrew Bible commands us to keep the Sabbath Day Holy and Holy Days are implicitly and legally Sabbaths. Desecration of the Sabbath is a sacrilege punishable by death. The convention of a Sanhedrin in a case of capital crime on Passover Eve which is the night of the Last Supper is more far-fetched to a Jew than fairy tales that the Galilean walked on water and magically multiplied loaves and fishes.
Did the Judeans curse a Judean patriot being crucified by the hated Romans? Did Judeans declare “his blood on our heads?” It may make you feel like you are more virtuous than the Jews, MB. Lord knows, neither you nor any other Christian would dream of doing any such thing. And feeling virtuous and kindly to poor Jesus–railroaded by the Pharisee Sanhedrin, cursed and reviled by all the evil Jews–you know for sure that Jesus loves you more than them. Yours is the young, loving God of the Christians. Not the angry and vengeful mean old God of the Jews. Christians know how to properly treat a God. Jews hate God and are in league with the Devil. That’s why The Odyssey is Greek literature and Caesar’s Gallic Wars is Roman literature but the Bible belongs to you. Holy Christian Literature. The God-damned Jews don’t deserve a book.
Take the advice of a well-meaning Hebrew and a fellow American, MB. Stop believing and start thinking. As for the Romans, demonstrate some of that famous Christian forgiveness and turn your other cheek. The Jewish Zealots, Bar Kochba in particular, ought never have dared to challenge Rome militarily. Judea was a pipsqueak nation and Rome was the most powerful Empire in the world. Bar Kochba’s patriotic and courageous rebellion brought great devastation and unspeakable suffering on his beloved Jewish people whose effects continue to be felt by them in the modern world.
Likewise, the Christians should have tempered their attacks on the traditional Roman virtues that undergirded the Empire. The worship of Jupiter was an ancient religion studied by and evolved by the greatest minds of the Classical world. Dismissing it for “Pagan” as the Church does exposes the ignorance, arrogance, and larcenous ingratitude of a Church that borrows from the “Pagans” as outrageously as it borrows from the Jews. No one slanders like a thief.
The Romans recognized Christianity for an artificial religion as plainly as did the Jews. A half-baked hodgepodge of theistic ingredients conveniently cherry-picked from two opposite cultures and mixed. An incomprehensible and unpalatable religious stew, part Jewish, part Greco-Roman and a grotesque insult to both.
That the Romans tried to cut out the Christian cancer in their body-politic was reasonably indicated, indeed urgent. Christianity was a hideous alien corruption rotting out the Empire from the inside. It had to be destroyed. The Christians, like the Jews, brought their suffering under Rome on themselves. The Romans were anything but innocent. But the Romans were Romans and to anybody who dealt with them, that was fair warning.
As for our Lord and Savior, Julius Caesar whom you revile, my love for him is undiminished from when I was first introduced to Him in adolescence, a post-World War II, post-Holocaust, Israeli-American boy whiling away peaceful Sabbath afternoons reading exciting stories of ancient heroes and heroics. The big brawny Germans, superior even then, mocking the Romans for their small stature. Caesar between the Germans in the City he is besieging knowing that 60, 000 German reinforcements are on the way to relieve their surrounded and starving cousins. Caesar deliberately fortifying his position between the two German forces, cutting himself and his legionnaires off from retreat. Roman Legionnaires fighting back to back, defending and attacking in two directions simultaneously. Wildly handsome and wildly brave Marc Antony and his wheeled cavalry sweeping down on the Germans, trampling them under horses and chariots, slashing, stabbing and hacking on every side, leaving long trails of dead and dying Germans in their wake. Lord Caesar Himself, his red cape pluming, leading his soldiers around the main German force and attacking the blonde savages from the rear, big German bodies piling up in torn and bloody heaps. What delight! What fun!
May Gaius of the Julii rest in peace with the sages and martyrs of Zion.
I share your affection for the noblest Roman and recently came across a most interesting theory that he engineered his own murder as a means of ensuring his fame and his adopted son/nephew’s success. History may be the last interesting susbject given that the present is a mess and the future looks like it will get worse. I fear that Revelations may be the only part of the new Testament that the Jews may come to believe without having any choice in the matter. About that weird scar on Obama’s head ….. QR codes and all the rest seeming to fit all too well with the information in that particular fortune tellers’ tool.
The French socialist and patriot Jean-Francoise Revel once perceptively observed…”"Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself.” This is certainly the case with England. Nearly fifty years of cultural relativism and academic self-loathing for it’s historic heritiage have left Great Britain a shell of a nation. There is simply nothing to hold it together. The incompetent, one might say cowardly, response of the English constabulary to the four-day rioting spree is based on the simple fact that few of the elite institutions in Britain really believe that Britain is a thing worth saving.
Thsi point-of-view already exists in the U.S. and will undoibtedly be the tinder leading to the ignition our own series of self-immolations. As long as our own elite classes can continue to believe that they will be safely insulated from the incendiary actions of the disaffected they will continue to undermine American (and more generally Western) institutions and culture. We are getting a sneak-preview of this from “progressive” opinion in Blighty where the rioters are now being “understood” as having “legitimate grievances” against the state going back to the days of Mrs. Thatcher. Clearly the modern British state is one that “lacks the energy and conviction to defend itself” from the most basic threat posed by it’s own criminal elements.
Please see the site below and join the many of all faiths on September 4th.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid164958000243581
I think we’re getting a little hysterical here. I certainly want Obama out of the White House. But to claim that our civilization is facing collapse just because it elected Obama and because some 23% of Americans self-describe themselves as liberal or left-wing, is absurd.
Let’s remember that nothing succeeds like success. America faced a much bigger philosophical challenge in the 20th century, when the Communist bloc enjoyed success after success, demarche after demarche. After Sputnik, it was hard for the thoughtful to refute the idea that just maybe the Soviets were on to something.
The collapse of the Communist bloc, and the rapid conversion of even nations like Mao’s China to market economies, has destroyed the mass appeal of socialism. What exemplars can Marxists point to anymore? Cuba, an agrarian society? North Korea, a starving society?
Yes, the Left was able to punch above their weight for a long time with their domination of the mass media. But cable TV, satellite TV, and the Internet broke that domination. Having lived through the era when Eric Sevareid got virtually uninterrupted prime time on the CBS Evening News to spout doctrinaire liberal commentary (with NBC and ABC not being much better then), I can’t get hysterical about today’s world in which Fox News is a ratings leader.
And Howard Zinn is still dead.
So chill out. Our political system has a lot going for it. We’ve made many mistakes–and then we corrected those mistakes.
If things were as bad as this article claims, then the Left wouldn’t be as unhappy as they are. But they’re furious and depressed and even bitter, judging by the stuff I’m seeing on the left-wing blogs. Doesn’t sound like THEY think things are going their way.
So what is the end game? Do we all succumb to the madness?
What the hell???? Ethnicity and nationality are synonomous. Both refer to a genetic relationship among a people, not shared by other peoples. Ethno-, natio-, patrio- all relate back to common ancestry. Americans are English/Scottish/Dutch/German/Swedish — i.e., the peoples who created America and were called Americans. The Scots and Irish were Celtic peoples, as were a small percentage of Englishmen (the Britons). The Anglo-Saxons, Dutch, Scandinavians, and Germans were all Germanic peoples. All others living in America are hyphenated Americans, i.e., non-Americans in nationality and ethnicity. Prior to DNA, no one knew enough for sure about human genetics to prove what peoples had always instinctively understood about relatedness. As the Brits said : “The wogs start at Calais.”
So! You say, do you, that people of French, Spanish, Italian, Greek, Slavic, Jewish, African, Asian or native American background should never have been permitted to become Americans?! Get OUT of my country, a**hole! I am also of English ancestry and even this much contact with you makes me want to wash my hands with Lava soap! If you can’t see that our welcoming of people from all over the world is one of the pillars of our exceptional quality then it’s you who doesn’t belong here! You’re not American, you’re an Amerikkkan and YES, the two are mutually exclusive!!!!! Go prance around the Highlands and STAY there!!!!
But that’s the thing: America isn’t a nation, according to the historical definition. America is a country, or more precisely, a federation of fifty states. However, there is no relationship between being a citizen of any of the states and one’s nationality. Rather, citizenship can be granted due to the location of one’s birth, inherited from one’s parents, or granted to those who seek it in accordance with our laws.
> Christianity is an amalgam of Jewish and Hellenic ideas.
Hope I’m not quibbling too much, but I would like to add my two cents on this issue: it depends on what sect of Christianity you’re talking about. The Roman church in particular could be characterized as “an amalgam of Jewish and Hellenic ideas.” In the middle ages, the Roman church fell very much in love with Greek culture and philosophy, and Aristotle in particular — e.g., spurred by the writings of Thomas Aquinas. I’m not competent to summarize the contributions of Aquinas, but only want to point out that his influence persists to this day (Thomists are everywhere).
But I would say Reformed Christianity is about as free of Greek influence as may be possible, given that we are, after all, a Western civilization. I see the Christian church and to a lesser extent Judaism in its raw form as transplants in Western civilization. Judeo-Christianity is an Eastern phenomenon, complete with an emphasis on corporal worship. This runs against the grain of highly-individualistic American culture, which today is perhaps more nourishing to the Arminian-leaning Protestant churches (who far outnumber us). But we Reformed Christians try to stay true to the spirit of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments). Paul warned against becoming like the Greeks, i.e., too enthralled with philosophy — even though he himself was well-schooled in it.
> The Greek God Zeus is a child of the Titans.
Hmmm. Aren’t Zeus and Baal the same god? Like Zeus and Jupiter?
> Constantine knows the Bishops and their sleazy character well.
I’d be interested in knowing the source of your unsavory characterizations of these Bishops. And whether or not you think sleaziness is a characterization to be reserved for Christian elders, or believe it can apply to others as well… e.g., Josephus the Jewish historian, or (pick one) any Roman emperor. Why, as is well-documented in this very web site, you couldn’t toss a stone into the House, Senate, or Oval Office without it smacking a sleazeball.
> Irrepressibly horny and delightfully human, Zeus of Olympus is now inextricably One with the remote El of the Hebrew’s Book of Genesis, a formless and invisible spirit imbued with reason and moral purpose. At Nicaea, Jew-Zeus is born.
Sorry, but theologically, this is hogwash. I have never before in my life seen Constantine cited as a church authority or a Christian theologian of any kind. Fine, Constantine had his own agenda when he recognized Christianity, but this does not mean any Christian sect whatsoever embraces a ocombination of Jesus and Zeus.
> After four hundred years of factious and bloody feuding, Christianity finally has a God all Christians can agree upon.
If you’re going to delight in airing Christianity’s dirty laundry, at least get it right. The Arian heresy persisted for hundreds more years.
> Isaiah calls Xerxes “Messiah” in text. Do I believe you, MB, or the Prophet Isaiah in holy text?
So Xerxes was who Isaiah was talking about in Isaiah 53? Not Jesus?
> “But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.”
“He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
“he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
“By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
“For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
“He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
“though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
“Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.”
“After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
“Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
“because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
“For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.”
Was that all about Xerxes too?
If you’re going to call Jesus a false Messiah, you got some ‘splainin’ to do.
> I see the Christian church and to a lesser extent Judaism in its raw form as transplants in Western civilization. Judeo-Christianity is an Eastern phenomenon, complete with an emphasis on corporal worship.
I meant to say, corporate worship, not corporal.
And please forgive the typos and bad editing.
> Constantine knows the Bishops and their sleazy character well.
I forgot to say that the Biblical characterizations of Caiphas and the Sanhedrin in Jesus’ day doesn’t suggest anything less sleazy than what you suggest about the bishops.
What it reminds me of is Pournelle’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy, which goes something like this…
There are two types of people in any organization
1. People who want to accomplish the goals that brought the organization into existence.
2. People who work for the organization itself.
Invariably, it is the latter category that always winds up in charge.
The bishops you describe sound like category 2 folks. Like the Sanhedrin. Like Constantine. Like our own political parties, for that matter. One mustn’t assume that the people who are attracted to Christianity when the Church is being persecuted are the same types of people who are attracted when the Church holds power.
You know we are in trouble when people are afraid to spell out GOD in their posts. read the following Austrailian site where the decline of civilization has been documented for all to see.
ourcivilization.com
Reformed Trombonist:
Nice to hear from you. Myth Buster seems to have crapped out and I was just beginning to enjoy myself. Nothing like a theological pissing contest. So lets see. Where do we begin?
“…In the middle ages, the Roman church fell very much in love with Greek culture and philosophy, and Aristotle in particular — e.g., spurred by the writings of Thomas Aquinas…”
So what? The Jews and the Muslims were influenced by Aristotle as well during the same period. Aquinas didn’t hold a candle to Maimonides and borrowed from him freely without attribution as is the sneaky, ingrate Christian manner. So did Duns Scotus.
When I speak of a Greco-Judaic amalgam, I’m suggesting that the”Father” of the “Holy Trinity” is a lot closer to the “Pagan” Gods of the classical Greeks and Romans than to the Creator in the Hebrew Book of Genesis. The Gods of the Greeks and Romans lusted after flawless mortal virgins. The Creator of the Hebrew Bible did not create mortal virgins to exploit for sex toys.
“…Hmmm. Aren’t Zeus and Baal the same god? Like Zeus and Jupiter?”
Ummm. No. Zeus’ consort (and sister) is Hera. Jupiter is merely Zeus in Latin. Baal’s consort is Astarius or Ishtar. The Christian myth of the Virgin Birth is based on Ishtar.
Impregnated by Baal the Virgin (I)Star races across the night sky followed by three wise men to land, not in Bethlehem but on a beach in Tyre. But the virgin goddess can’t get her Holy Virgin Birthling by Baal past her Holy Hymen. She spots a sea bird and turns him into a rabbit. The rabbit lays an egg and out of the egg pops the newborn god. And that’s where Ishtar eggs and the Ishtar bunny come from.
In ancient Carthage, the women would bring their infants for sacrifice to Ishtar (or Tanit) to propitiate Baal for good harvest. The priests would slit the infants’ throats and paint eggs with their blood to commemorate the Holy Virgin Birth. Did the Carthaginians have egg rolling contests on Ishtar Day as Christians do on Easter? I don’t know. But the remains of twenty thousand male infants, most under one year of age, were discovered at a single altar to Tanit in modern day Lebanon. Maybe you ought to think about it next time you’re painting Easter eggs with the kids, Reformed Trombonist. And when they ask about the Easter bunny and what he could possibly have to do with Christ’s birth don’t tell them.
“…Judeo-Christianity is an Eastern phenomenon, complete with an emphasis on corporal worship. This runs against the grain of highly-individualistic American culture…”
Individual freedom is the second great contribution of the Jews to mankind. A Sabbath day of rest once a week is the first. “Highly individualistic” American Culture is Judeo Christian culture. No group of Christians in two thousand years of Christian history led lives so similar to the life of religious Jews as the Puritans whose influence on American culture, though much declined, remains healthy.
“…I’d be interested in knowing the source of your unsavory characterizations of these Bishops…”
Richard Rubinstein: When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome [Paperback]
Regarding Constantine, my point is that Constantine–a “Pagan” Emperor, defined the Christian God to suit his political needs. Also that the Bishops were a ignorant, fractious rabble, no one of whom was a match for an superbly educated and trained Roman nobleman like Constantine.
My point regarding Xerxes and Caesar is simple. Each fulfilled the definition of Jewish Messiah entirely when Jesus doesn’t begin to. Xerxes and Caesar were genuine kings, each was genuinely a King of Kings and each was a savior of the Jewish people. Jesus was none of these things.
Finally, Reformed Trombonist, don’t quote to me from Jewish literature. I’ve read it in the original which you are not qualified to do. It’s insulting. While you’re at it, maybe you ought to reconsider practicing the Jewish religion without license while insulting Jews.
Reformed Trombonist:
Nice to hear from you. Myth Buster seems to have crapped out and I was just beginning to enjoy myself. Nothing like a theological pissing contest. So lets see. Where do we begin?
“…In the middle ages, the Roman church fell very much in love with Greek culture and philosophy, and Aristotle in particular — e.g., spurred by the writings of Thomas Aquinas…”
So what? The Jews and the Muslims were influenced by Aristotle as well during the same period. Aquinas didn’t hold a candle to Maimonides and borrowed from him freely without attribution as is the sneaky, ingrate Christian manner. So did Duns Scotus.
When I speak of a Greco-Judaic amalgam, I’m suggesting that the”Father” of the “Holy Trinity” is a lot closer to the “Pagan” Gods of the classical Greeks and Romans than to the Creator in the Hebrew Book of Genesis. The Gods of the Greeks and Romans lusted after flawless mortal virgins. The Creator of the Hebrew Bible did not create mortal virgins to exploit for sex toys.
“…Hmmm. Aren’t Zeus and Baal the same god? Like Zeus and Jupiter?”
Ummm. No. Zeus’ consort (and sister) is Hera. Jupiter is merely Zeus in Latin. Baal’s consort is Astarius or Ishtar. The Christian myth of the Virgin Birth is based on Ishtar.
Impregnated by Baal the Virgin (I)Star races across the night sky followed by three wise men to land, not in Bethlehem but on a beach in Tyre. But the virgin goddess can’t get her Holy Virgin Birthling by Baal past her Holy Hymen. She spots a sea bird and turns him into a rabbit. The rabbit lays an egg and out of the egg pops the newborn god. And that’s where Ishtar eggs and the Ishtar bunny come from.
In ancient Carthage, the women would bring their infants for sacrifice to Ishtar (or Tanit) to propitiate Baal for good harvest. The priests would slit the infants’ throats and paint eggs with their blood to commemorate the Holy Virgin Birth. Did the Carthaginians have egg rolling contests on Ishtar Day as Christians do on Easter? I don’t know. But the remains of twenty thousand male infants, most under one year of age, were discovered at a single altar to Tanit in modern day Lebanon. Maybe you ought to think about it next time you’re painting Easter eggs with the kids, Reformed Trombonist. And when they ask about the Easter bunny and what he could possibly have to do with Christ’s birth don’t tell them.
“…Judeo-Christianity is an Eastern phenomenon, complete with an emphasis on corporal worship. This runs against the grain of highly-individualistic American culture…”
Individual freedom is the second great contribution of the Jews to mankind. A Sabbath day of rest once a week is the first. “Highly individualistic” American Culture is Judeo Christian culture. No group of Christians in two thousand years of Christian history led lives so similar to the life of religious Jews as the Puritans whose influence on American culture, though much declined, remains healthy.
“…I’d be interested in knowing the source of your unsavory characterizations of these Bishops…”
Richard Rubinstein: When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome [Paperback]
Regarding Constantine, my point is that Constantine–a “Pagan” Emperor, defined the Christian God to suit his political needs. Also that the Bishops were a ignorant, fractious rabble, no one of whom was a match for an superbly educated and trained Roman nobleman like Constantine.
My point regarding Xerxes and Caesar is simple. Each fulfilled the definition of Jewish Messiah entirely when Jesus doesn’t begin to. Xerxes and Caesar were genuine kings, each was genuinely a King of Kings and each was a savior of the Jewish people. Jesus was none of these things.
Finally, Reformed Trombonist, don’t quote to me from Jewish literature. I’ve read it in the original which you are not qualified to do. It’s insulting. While you’re at it, maybe you ought to reconsider practicing the Jewish religion without license while insulting Jews.
> Nice to hear from you.
Likewise, David.
> Nothing like a theological pissing contest.
I prefer to think of it as a spirited exchange of ideas, information, and opinions.
>> “…In the middle ages, the Roman church fell very much in love with Greek culture…”
> So what? The Jews and the Muslims were influenced by Aristotle…
Well and good. My point was that not all Christian churches are as beholden to the Greeks as the Roman church (and presumably the Greek Orthodox church). At least, no more beholden to them than being drenched in Western culture would otherwise dictate.
> When I speak of a Greco-Judaic amalgam, I’m suggesting that the”Father” of the “Holy Trinity” is a lot closer to the “Pagan” Gods of the classical Greeks and Romans than to the Creator in the Hebrew Book of Genesis.
I know you are suggesting that. I am suggesting that you’re wrong.
> The Gods of the Greeks and Romans lusted after flawless mortal virgins. The Creator of the Hebrew Bible did not create mortal virgins to exploit for sex toys
In which book of the New Testament is the Holy Trinity portrayed as a rutting degenerate? And in which denomination’s theological seminaries is this taught?
> The Christian myth of the Virgin Birth is based on Ishtar.
I thought it was based on the Gospels.
> Maybe you ought to think about it next time you’re painting Easter eggs with the kids, Reformed Trombonist.
I would certainly would have thought about it if I had ever painted Easter eggs with my kids. In fact, I’m thinking about it now, even though the Reformed churches already tend to look askance at any pagan influence into our Christian culture, such as Easter bunnies. But whatever Christians choose to paint with their children, I would suggest that most do so out of ignorance of the Easter bunny’s origins, and that nowhere in the theology of any Christian church does a bunny play a pivotal role. Or an unpivotal one, for that matter. The last time I found myself cheering for a rabbit, it was attacking President Carter.
> And when they ask about the Easter bunny and what he could possibly have to do with Christ’s birth don’t tell them.
Wrong holiday. Christmas is about Christ’s birth and the relevant pagan encroachments are Santa Claus and the Yule log.
>> “…Judeo-Christianity is an Eastern phenomenon, complete with an emphasis on corporal worship. This runs against the grain of highly-individualistic American culture…”
> Individual freedom is the second great contribution of the Jews to mankind.
You might have a hard time selling that one. I would credit the Greeks. They had democracy back when the Jews were trying to survive in Babylon and Persia.
> A Sabbath day of rest once a week is the first.
A terrific contribution, to be sure.
> “Highly individualistic” American Culture is Judeo Christian culture.
I see Judeo-Christianity as a transplant into Western culture, which is Greco-Roman. When Persian soldiers were doing what Eastern soldiers always did, which was to strut around in an ostentatious display of power and prowess, the Greeks, who had lives of their own and no time to waste, rushed them and made short work of them. When Xerxes’ generals were too afraid to openly disagree with his strategy, the Greek generals were bickering incessantly up until the moment of decision… but then they executed their decisions with brutal efficiency. The basic idea behind Western civilization is that the individual citizen’s life, humble though it may be, is worth living and worth protecting. Historically, Western armies have routinely defeated Eastern armies in anything like equal numbers, and I think it’s because the individual Western soldier has more at stake than simply surviving the next engagement.
> No group of Christians in two thousand years of Christian history led lives so similar to the life of religious Jews as the Puritans whose influence on American culture, though much declined, remains healthy.
Agreed. Those Puritans, by the way, were Reformed Christians. As is your humble correspondent, the Reformed Trombonist.
>> “…I’d be interested in knowing the source of your unsavory characterizations of these Bishops…”
> Richard Rubinstein: When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome [Paperback]
I don’t suppose he’d have an ax to grind, would he? The slurs of the bishops in Constantine’s day seem entirely gratuitous to me. I don’t see them as different in type than focusing on the disgraceful machinations of the Sanhedrin in the days of Jesus and Paul. If Judaism is right and Christianity is wrong, it has nothing to do with how hard the bishops were to get along with. Likewise, if Christianity is right, the depravities of the Sanhedrin are basically an interesting footnote.
> Regarding Constantine, my point is that Constantine–a “Pagan” Emperor, defined the Christian God to suit his political needs.
And perhaps he did. *My* point is that Christian theologians today do not consider Constantine to be an authority figure for the Church — if they ever did.
> Also that the Bishops were a ignorant, fractious rabble, no one of whom was a match for an superbly educated and trained Roman nobleman like Constantine.
In the case of Balaam, the Lord used an ass to deliver His message. I suppose He has done that same thing many other times.
> My point regarding Xerxes and Caesar is simple. Each fulfilled the definition of Jewish Messiah entirely when Jesus doesn’t begin to.
Whose definition of the Jewish Messiah? Judaism’s? Or the Bible’s?
> Xerxes and Caesar were genuine kings, each was genuinely a King of Kings and each was a savior of the Jewish people. Jesus was none of these things.
And that is a question of faith. Jesus is indeed Lord, King of Kings, and our savior from the consequences of sin. “For my kingdom is not of this world.”
> Finally, Reformed Trombonist, don’t quote to me from Jewish literature. I’ve read it in the original which you are not qualified to do. It’s insulting.
Chill, friend. No insult intended. I quoted a translation. I would not begin to imagine I can read Hebrew better than anyone, let alone someone named David Levavi.
My point is not with the translation, but with the meaning behind it. If Isaiah was not talking about Jesus (in Isaiah 53), who was he talking about?
> While you’re at it, maybe you ought to reconsider practicing the Jewish religion without license while insulting Jews.
You’ve shown no reticence in talking about Christians without a license. How is it that the distance between A and B can be greater than between B and A?
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