Obama’s Big Health Care Speech: What He Should Say — and Shouldn’t Say
On Wednesday, President Obama will address Congress to give what is being described as a “make-or-break” speech on health care. With polls indicating most Americans oppose President Obama’s vision for health care reform — and are becoming increasingly disillusioned with Mr. Obama himself — the administration felt it necessary to roll the dice in order to salvage what Obama considers to be his chief domestic priority. Reforming health care was supposed to be the defining moment of Obama’s legacy, his signature achievement. Therefore, it is not an understatement to suggest the nature and content of this upcoming speech — how it is delivered, how it is received by the rest of the country — could dictate the course of Obama’s presidency and provide either a catalyst or hindrance to accomplishing the rest of what he wants to achieve in this term.
The stakes could not be higher. So what will Obama say? Perhaps the better question is: what shouldn’t he say?
For starters, President Obama shouldn’t use straw-man fallacies to caricaturize his critics. He is incredibly fond of this rhetorical tactic. Key phrases to watch out for: “some say” or “there are those who say” — dismal strawmanese followed by an extraordinarily ridiculous statement or argument nobody is saying or has ever said. Making up your opponent’s argument is the oldest trick in the book. It’s beneath strong leadership and gets the country nowhere.
Additionally, Obama should avoid resorting to platitudinous drivel that insults our intelligence. As Charles Krauthammer elaborates, “When ordinary citizens understand they are being played for fools, they bristle.” President Obama likes to promise everything to everyone and often prefaces these promises with “let me be perfectly clear” — a telltale indicator that he’s about to talk to us like we’re children, eschewing substance and reason for cliché and innuendo. Smart citizens can see through this nonsense almost immediately. They bristle.
There is a silly “status update” floating around Facebook like a chain letter. It reads: “No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick.” Convoluted baloney like this is beneath national discourse and Mr. Obama should treat it as such. It is not only intellectually infantile; it’s slanderously asinine.
Should Obama dare to imply something similar — that opponents of his health care proposals are accomplices to, or worse, proponents for, letting poor people die — the sincerity of the entire speech would be compromised. It would be transparently desperate, constituting a bridge too far. Key phrases to be on the lookout for: “we must bear witness” or “we are our brother’s keeper.” The moment you hear this — subtle theological jargon, no doubt — the jig is up and Obama has resigned himself to intellectual dishonesty.
Furthermore, Obama should reject Orwellian euphemism. We’ve seen this phenomenon in foreign policy, where “terrorism” has become “man-caused disasters” and the “war against terror” is now called an “overseas contingency operation.” On health care, the administration is likewise unabashed. For example, health care rationing is called “comparative effectiveness research” — Obama-Pelosi’s brilliant idea of “government bureaucrats [assessing] health treatments to determine whether or not they are cost-effective and can be approved for payment.” This kind of focus-group, poll-tested doublespeak engenders cynicism amongst the population — and understandably so. He should quit it.
Correspondingly, Obama should drop the Saul Alinsky-like taunts and derision. Last year, Obama implored his supporters to confront their Republican neighbors and “argue with them and get in their face.” Regarding McCain supporters, Obama promised, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun” — before, of course, condemning the rancor and partisanship in Washington and hilariously promising to deliver us a “new kind of politics.” On health care, President Obama has been similarly snide. He’s told his critics to stop talking and “get out of the way,” lecturing: “Don’t do a lot of talking.” His administration has instructed congressional Democrats to “punch back twice as hard” against their constituents who oppose ObamaCare.
Since then, Democratic congressmen have called town hall attendees protesting socialized medicine every name in the book: political terrorists, mobsters, Nazis, evil, swastika carriers, Timothy McVeigh admirers, brown shirts, and more. One protester, a St. Louis resident by the name of Kenneth Gladney, was physically assaulted and hospitalized by a half dozen Obama-backed union members — strictly for his views.
And yet President Obama’s insouciance has only added fuel to the fire. The union thugs, who were at the St. Louis town hall in support of ObamaCare, were simply punching back “twice as hard.”
Timing is everything:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/07/obama-school-speech-released/
That’s the text to the school speech, not the health care speech.
If Obama followed the advice Mr. Guariglia sets forth in this article it would leave him one choice. Stay home and keep his mouth shut.
The odds of him doing that are about equal to the Americans he has betrayed all-of-a-sudden saying, “Gee whiz, Obama is a really nice man.”
Obama’s healthcare reform is going down in flames. His big speech to Congress will deliver the final, fatal blow.
There is nothing that this lying black liberationist can say to change anything.
The government can’t run anything effectively. Only a moron would let them meddle with our healthcare let alone run it.
No money to the government for healthcare. Its unconstitutional ergo its illegal and they have no authority to do it.
Only tort reform and free market initiatives are acceptable. Nothing else!!!
They won’t do this so -NO BILL PERIOD!
This is a terrific article. Obama and his team would be wise to consider your suggestions.
I typically do not watch the Obama speeches and instead read the transcript. Tomorrow night I will make an exception and will be watching to count the number of times he uses straw man arguments, resorts to mockery and derision, and uses his favorite phrases (“as I have said”, etc.).
At this point, his tactics are more interesting than his words. I would love to be surprised and have him equal the hype.
… many others have said it better than I:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/09/the_brainwashing_bun ch.html
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/president-obama-saddam-2 552741-time-one
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/07/i-repeat-its-not-the-s peech-its-the-subtext/
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/07/obama-school-speech-r eleased/
it is NOT “just” about the so-called speech….
“If he is wise……..” If my back didn’t hurt and it wasn’t so early in the morning, I’d roll on the floor with laughter.
The nicely summarized article suggests that he avoid straw-man fallacies, platitudinous drivel, Orwellian euphemisms, taunts and derision, etc. I don’t believe he can, because that’s who he is.
I always thought Bush and Cheney were really good at “in your face” plain talking. I think Obama should learn from them. He should say exactly what he wants in that bill, like it or not, and then let congress do their bit. Carter learned the hard way, and Obama will realize, people that dont like you, dont like you, but if you speak the truth and say what you believe, they might just respect you a little bit. So he should say exactly what he believes and why…he believes it.
Then go watch a movie.
Mr. Obama apparently believes the glowing aura of his personal presence will be enough to carry the vote. If the legislation fails, he will lose stature. If the legislation passes, he will permanently lose a large slice of the electorate. I must suppose that his advisers were unable to convince him that a strategic retreat is called for. Hubris.
Thank you, Robert (I’m so ashamed!).
I pulled an all-nighter and let this slip.
Another amazing article by Nicholas Guariglia. This one hits it directly on the head when it comes to the mess Obama has created with not just this health care proposal but also every other thing he has tried. I doubt there are many that would disagree that reform in health care must happen but a “take over” by a government that can’t run anything correctly would be completely disasterous. It does appear that most Americans get it now. “True reform” starts with a grass roots effort in the way health care is practiced and also in some tort reform which the Dems would never go for. Actually it involves putting the “CARE” back in health care. Many feel that is has less to do with the financial side of health care and more to do with the clinical “caring” side. I myself am a doctor and have many patients I treat pro bono. Most of the doctors I know do the same without complaint. How about Obama offering the health care professionals tax incentives for treating uninsured patients? Why turn the whole sytem on it’s head for the 15% when 85% are happy? Besides, when the statistics are really broken down, people will see that it is not even 15% but more like 7 or 8% when the illegals and also the people that can afford care but choose not to have it are also taken out of the equation. Why not increase competition by allowing people the right to buy insurance across state lines? Why not offer tax incentives to people for health savings accounts. The republicans have proposed many solutions but no one is hearing about them because they are being stiffled by the MSM. Just like during the campaign, there is once again a total “blackout” of the other side. If and when any opposition is shown by the MSM, they are demonized and described as loons. It has taken time but I do beleive that Obama’s administration is now being exposed for the radical people that surround him. These Czars are ridiculous. Van Jones? And Obama won’t denounce him? Obama once said, “If you want to see what I think and what my policies will be, look at the people I surround myself with”. Well, let’s take a good look. Honesty and transparency? It is incredible to see how his numbers plumet and how he is going down in flames now that all of this is finally coming out. This defeat in health care (and it will be defeated) is mostly due to Americans pushing back. Hopefully this will force BO to put the brakes on and stop trying to change the basic structure of the USA. Capitalism and freedom is what our founding fathers wrote into the constitution and I have faith that it will prevail.
If President Obama true got it, he would scrap all the bills in the House & Senate & start over from scratch & scrap his Congressional address; however, Obama is a malignant narcissist with a chip on his shoulder; therefore, President Obama’s telepromnter will use different words to convey what he has already said 111 speeches ago this past Summer. President Obama’s health care fiat is going down in flames one way or another. We Americans get it, Obama is lost in his own superficial plastic world of his own make-believe system of BIG SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT. I have no doubt the mainstream media enablers will conclude Obama’s speech to be a resounding success, yet this will not be true in the final calculation since I think his ratings will stink due to President Obama’s overexposure. I simply do not trust the power hungry Communist. The Sleeping Giant is wide awake & watching President Obama…
Nick, I loved the article. However, you neglected one important component, that our seriously over matched Wee Weed President ignores: we are engaged in two wars on the other side of the world. Wars that have young Americans making the ultimate sacrifice, while our President has wet dreams over Orwellian-Like Visions of Totalitarian Government and his own Marxist Civilian Militia.
To assume that by repackaging his tired Marxist philosophy, while his eyes dart quickly from left to right in an almost frantic effort to keep from losing his place on the two teleprompters, like a mechanical dummy while using his sing song, lilting, lisping form of diction that is so reassuring to the feeble minded and Useful Idiots of the Neo-Marxists; might be considered an insult to the intelligence of most of America. The idea that a speech writer can tweak a few words and all of a sudden naked Marxism is now fully acceptable is absurd.
Instead of ignoring these brave American Patriots while campaigning for a Marxist Utopian Vision that most Americans have no use for, his primary concern should be either winning those wars are bringing those wars to a conclusion. Many wars have been won militarily, to be lost politically; so far, the ventriloquist’s dummy has exhibited no qualities to suggest that he is even remotely up to the task of winning the wars after a military victory. In fact, he insults the sacrifice our brave Patriots by ignoring a political solution.
Being more concerned with installing unconstitutional czars around him in numbers that will equal that of the Senate, czars with Communist Anti-American Communist backgrounds, while ignoring our troops in the field is more than enough reason to be skeptical of the abilities and objective of The Executive.
Obama is long past the point of rephrasing his objectives and winning support for his Marxist Agenda. The American People have seen that he has ulterior motives to pursue, motives that have little or nothing in common with the welfare of the United States or its citizens. Americans are being used as dupes by the standard bearers of Marxism and Obama is the latest Drum Major, a Drum Major with teleprompters.
I’m not holding my breath. For, if Agent Zero, heeds the advice in this column, then medical science would have been revolutionized: a leopard
can indeed change its spots.
He accuses others of the most unsavoury attributes,
yet he is being transmogrified into them before our
eyes.
Maybe he’ll tell his followers that they can stand up to the evil scum called citizens, overpower them once and for all, and be big heros of the revelution. That’s how he probably sees things so why wouldn’t he frame it that way? You know, “I won, you lost”, now get the hell out of my way or my army of the faithful will be unleashed carrying the black flag of no mercy.
We shall see, but I don’t think he can do anything but throw more gasoline on the fire he started. He’s living in a fantasy world so he’ll see the situation in a way that fits his fantasy, not in a way that deals with the reality of the situation. JMHO.
Regards
We also need to hold to the fire the feet of people who misuse words like ‘Nazi’ and ‘brownshirt’. These are real horrors, and debasing the words makes it impossible to warn people of the real horrors.
The good news is that people are waking up to Obama’s civilian security force “equal to the military.” What’s he’s describing IS the SS, and this needs to be called out and called out often.
1. Ed Wallis:
“Timing is everything”
Well not EVERYthing. Accuracy counts, too. Healthcare, education, what’s the difference?
“Since then, Democratic congressmen have called town hall attendees protesting socialized medicine every name in the book: political terrorists, mobsters, Nazis, evil, swastika carriers, Timothy McVeigh admirers, brown shirts, and more. One protester, a St. Louis resident by the name of Kenneth Gladney, was physically assaulted and hospitalized by a half dozen Obama-backed union members — strictly for his views.”
Stunning in its delusion. “Hospitalized” by right wing operatives who saw an elbow scrape and tried to turn it into a national tragedy, alas, Mr. Gladney, wheelchair-boun, taking up donations, and too medicated to talk the next day, wasn’t up to the task of becoming the next media martyr . . . . “a half dozen Obama-backed union members” . . .
(from DAPHNE EVIATAR ) – “Meanwhile, though Gladney appears to be just fine in the video right after he was supposedly beaten up, he showed up the next day at a tea party event in a wheelchair. At the event, Bill Hennessy, the organizer of the St. Louis tea parties, asked the crowd to donate money to Gladney to help him pay for his injuries, despite the fact that he now says he has insurance. When I asked Brown about this, he said: “Well, who doesn’t need a donation? If people want to give him a donation because he’s injured and unemployed, that’s up to them.” Brown said Gladney has raised about $1,100 in donations so far.”"
What’s true is true. What’s not is not.
No health care reform without first immigration reform. That speech will never happen because Big Brother Medical is about gathering voting blocks not health or compassion.
No massive entitlement programs without legislated spending controls. That will not be in the speech becasue the momentum is towards out of control.
No medical cost reforms without tort reforms. That is not even mentioned in the current bills. Will the speech salute the ambulance chasers?
No exemptions for unions or congress. No penalties for non-participation. A sunset clause for any govert. insurance plan that is experimental. Open competition for the insurance companies across state lines. Absolute confidentiality between doctor and patient. What else aren’t we going to hear?
Here’s the entire facebook status update: ” No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick. We are only as strong as the weakest among us. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of the day.”
One of my “friends” was foolish enought to post it. I slammed her face in the mud for it. I don’t suppose she liked my responses, cause she never said anything else!
Here are my responses to this ridiculous bunch of tripe:
“Something you might have missed, Brandi…EVERYBODY who shows up at the hospital ER gets treated…Furthermore, when did it become my reponsibility to pay for somebody who dropped out of high school/or is an addict/or is a loser to have health insurance? If you feel so strongly about helping others, then you should donate all your leftover funds … Read Moreto a charity that helps the less fortunate. But don’t volunteer me to donate mine! You should read the note that I wrote concerning the Socialized Health Insurance Trust.”
Another person who apparently is gay and is also mentally aberrant replied, but she removed her posts after I busted her up some. Here’s my response to her:
“Mrs. Estep, there’s nothing wrong with everyone having access to health care/insurance. But, in a capitalist system people are expected to work for benefits they receive. In a socialist system like England’s and Canada’s, everybody gets “free” health care (which sucks). I suggest that you find yourself somebody who is “working their butt off” and still can’t afford health insurance” and just give them some of your money so they can have it. While you’re at it, you might ask if they have a criminal record/finished high school/do drugs and you might reconsider giving them a handout. It’s all about personal responsibility!”
Another person chimed in with, “Most of the people without health insurance ,choose not to have it(poll recently taken )….they would rather have the money for other things, ie. Car,clothes etc. While health care insurance is expensive it is a choice we have to make. There is free insurance for the poor and elderly and like Jonathan said no one is turned away at the ER. Alot of young people think they don’t need health insurance because they won’t get sick or worse….While it would be nice for everyone to get free health care it just doesn’t work ….countries that have free health care send thier leaders here because there heath care system and doctors suck. There is a whole lot more to it than that but that is the basis of it….”
I responded to the gay mental patient with, “Mental health issues are what Medicaid is for. I’m in favor of persons with LEGITIMATE disabilities being subsidized by the government and/or being put on gov’t programs to help them. The problem is that a lot of the people who apply for disability are not disabled, but slackers. So, I would imagine that these folks undergo quite a bit of scrutiny for good reason. I sincerely hope that noone has ever told you that life is fair. If anyone did, they lied!
Here’s the thing: Social Security is going bankrupt; Medicare is going bankrupt; just about every government program even legislated has experienced cost overruns. I don’t want the government any more involved in health issues than it already is. It strikes me as a very bad idea to have the gov’t involved considering their past mismanagement of pretty much everything they’ve touched.”
And finally, I debunked her talking point with: “Here’s another article debunking the “crisis” appelation. Excerpts:
“Just a quick look inside the Census Bureau data shows that 9.7 million of the uninsured are not citizens of the United States.”
“In 2007, 17.6 million of the uninsured had annual incomes of more than $50,000 and 9.1 million earned more than $75,000.”
“In 2003, a BlueCross BlueShield Association study estimated that about 14 million of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP.”
“The Census figures also show that 18.3 million of the uninsured were under 34. Some in this age group may have simply determined that they are young and healthy and thus can do without coverage. ”
“Those pushing for a major government intervention in health care are distorting the 46-million statistic to boost their cause, and by disseminating it so widely without further elaboration, the media is rigging the game in their favor.”
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/03/20/the-myth-of-the-46-million”
All-in-all, a pretty fun time! [pats self on back]
regards
Now and then, so the fact that Gladney was attacked by Union agitators suppressing free speech isn’t germane to the argument only that his injuries were overplayed? Well maybe next time some one will really get injured or killed by the rent a mob of union thugs. Maybe they’ll even get their finger bitten off by a literally rabid Obama cheerleader. Oh wait….
There is only one thing that Obama should (and will never in a million years) say: I will veto any Health Care legislation. It isn’t up to the government to pass what the people don’t want. Thank you.
This article is an indictment of the Obama presidency and leadership style. Your suggestion is Obama should act like a statesman and not be himself. Great advice.
If the Democrats pass Freddie-Mae health-care there will be hell to pay.
Yada yada yada trust me Hope and Change yada yada yada. Wow I should be the Won’s speech writer.
#22. Jettboy, that’s great. It could only be surpassed by Teleprompter Barbie saying ‘I resign from the Presidency’.
“and address the serious concerns raised by his opponents.”
Just what are the serious concerns raised by his opponents?
Death panels? A lie.
Government takeover of health care? A lie.
Rationing? A lie.
Socialized medicince? Another lie.
All of the so called serious concerns, every one of them, are nothing but lies and obfuscation.
I am ashamed for our country that such stupidity and ignorance is taken seriously.
TrangB you miss the point, the finger was merely bitten off, it was not eaten. Let’s keep things in perspective.
@26: “All of the so called serious concerns, every one of them, are nothing but lies and obfuscation.”
Just because YOU say they’re “lies and obfuscation” doesn’t by default make them objectively so. If you’d like a more credible shot at convincing others, you might try including something, you know, specific — like demonstrating exactly WHY those concerns are indeed “lies and obfuscation.” Otherwise I might be forgiven for taking your claims as, well, simply the boilerplate spoutings of a kneejerk leftist hack.
But then, I’m rational that way.
never hit first..in front of others people…
Biting off or bitin of any body part is uncalled for and should be punished..people know who the man is.
“You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free.”
This is the only part of the speech I questioned…where do you find a country that has more freedom than America?
.More Fair???? heck we hand out jobs because of color not qualifications, welfare because someone is lazy…More Fair???
.More Free??? unless you are a lazy butt this is the land of every imaginable opportunity and freedom!! If you sit home in your mom’s basement playing on the internet..I suppose that is your problem, not mine to support you or give you health care and food.
Well, I don’t like Obama and his guys, so, there had to be something I didn’t like I suppose. I don’t dislike Democrats any more than Republicans…I just dislike/like certain things about each..
.In general, I agree with the speech. Kids need to realize there is a world out there they will need to compete in..and they need to stay the course or fall off the planet, like a lot of their parents try to do.
njcommuter -
“We also need to hold to the fire the feet of people who misuse words like ‘Nazi’ and ‘brownshirt’. These are real horrors, and debasing the words makes it impossible to warn people of the real horrors.”
The left has been using those terms since the sixties when it was one of their favorite terms. It’s back in fashion with them now and all of a sudden, we should say something? Forget it, the people now in office are little clones of the Nazis without, so far, the flashy uniforms. If you look at their programs and the goals they have for society as a whole, the only national party to ever back that sort of thing was the National Socialist party in Germany.
I’m tired of hearing,”don’t yell nazi” from dimwits who spent eight years laughing at Bush being compared to Hitler but somehow want the term outlawed now that the eugenics, social engineering, nationalization, crowd is in office. Obama has far more in common with Hitler than with anyone who has ever been president of this country unless it was FDR. Calling a spade a spade is just being honest, and outlawing an accurate term just is an unreasonable, and IMHO, suspect refrain.
If you don’t think the proposed health care bill that has mostly phrases like, “to be determined by a panel” and “to be determined by the Secretary” is the path to a real horror, then I guess you think the moral folks who sanction, approve, and encourage, the 4000 abortions a day would balk at that many folks “of no value to society a day”. They would not even blink an eye. If you want to wait until the “real horror” is in place, fine, but I don’t want to shade the truth and help it hide itself as it comes to power.
Regards
He’s lost my trust. There’s nothing he can say that will persuade me.
Where is the asinine slander in saying that people get financially ruined by getting sick? I think it’s on the record that this goes on all the time. A lot of real asinine slander going on, but not in that regard. Check your facts.
Here’s an advance “transcript” of Obama’s health care speech.
http://klogtheblog.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/531/
Perhaps Teleprompter Guy should encourage, strong arm, whatever, every Democrat in the House and or/ Senate to climb aboard HR 615.. hahahaha
Elwood Blues: ‘Illinois Nazis’
Jake Blues: ‘I Hate Illinois Nazis’
‘I got a fevah, and the only prescription is’ less career, bureaucratic usurpers having a say in our day to day..
@18
From your comments, is it fair to conclude that you object to people voluntarily assisting others, but support requiring them to involuntarily do so?
You seem to be a little more rational than your allies vivo and Moho, but I’m not willing to accept your claims prima facie. Do you have anything to support your statements?
26. jharp:
“Just what are the serious concerns raised by his opponents?
Death panels? A lie.
Government takeover of health care? A lie.
Rationing? A lie.
Socialized medicince? Another lie.
All of the so called serious concerns, every one of them, are nothing but lies and obfuscation.”
So we will get unrestricted healthcare from a nongovernment agancy?
So it will be Freddie Mae health care?
So Obama and many democrates wont try for single payer over time.
You need to explain this wonderfull system to us. You see we are not democrats and like to read documents. Explain this utopian health system further.
Thanks to the Sleeping Giant, Fox News, & the internet, President Obama retreated on his indoctrination speech on school children by just talking in generalities in his vapid speech (given many have rejected to do the the work sheets assignments completely); however, I see this as a harbinger for his upcoming Congressional speech. Steny Hoyer is already downplaying the public option, yet the bill itself must be killed. Why does not the power hungry Socialists under this? Kill the bills. Put a stake in their rotten hearts.
Anonymous:
26. jharp:
“So we will get unrestricted healthcare from a nongovernment agancy?”
No. Same as it is today.
“So it will be Freddie Mae health care?”
No. The public plan will more closely resemble Medicare.
“So Obama and many democrates wont try for single payer over time.”
They very well might. We have these things called elections that are run on various platforms and promises. And of course a single payer might be put on the table.
“You see we are not democrats and like to read documents. Explain this utopian health system further.”
Then go read the bill. It’s there for all to see.
“Where is the asinine slander in saying that people get financially ruined by getting sick? ”
I agree it does happen; been there, done that, have the plastic pitcher from the IC ward. That doesn’t mean I think the middle class should be taxed into a mill village and mining holler lifestyle to keep it from happening.
There have been proposals for interest free or low interest loans for medical bills and all have been laughed at by the democrats and/or shot down in committee. Loans would be a better solution than ripping off everyone to pay for people who often refuse to buy insurance. Loans and deregulation (which the dems blame for everything) would be about ideal as I see it. Sure, some uninsured would buy insurance if they could, but you try selling health insurance to people younger than thirty and see how far you get.
If the dems want to socialize something, socialize the demographic that most supports it. Add 6k a year to the cost of college, 8k to the cost of a Masters, and 12k to the cost of a PhD. That coverage could stay in place until the covered party was 35 years old or until they purchased their own insurance, whichever came first. They’d scream about having their “right” to a college education infringed, but they’re fine with infringing the rights of everyone else.
The fact is, all these invented “rights” are just a way to try and frame the debate or head it off. As the average age at which people have become full time workers has gone up, so has the average age at which reality sinks in. The dems have taken advantage of that fact and made ways for more and more people to ignore reality until it’s too late for them to do anything for themselves. Then, they’re reliable democrat voters until someone finally realizes that they’ve been dead for a few decades.
Regards
ujharp:
Anonymous:
26. jharp:
“So we will get unrestricted healthcare from a nongovernment agancy?”
No. Same as it is today.
“So it will be Freddie Mae health care?”
No. The public plan will more closely resemble Medicare.
“So Obama and many democrates wont try for single payer over time.”
They very well might. We have these things called elections that are run on various platforms and promises. And of course a single payer might be put on the table.
“You see we are not democrats and like to read documents. Explain this utopian health system further.”
Then go read the bill. It’s there for all to see.
————————–
Here’s what’s in the bill. It’s there for all to see!
This is what the Obama-Pelosi Health Care Experiment Really Contains. You can find the bill by going to http://www.thomas.gov
———————————–
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and
benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals
process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to
all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the
Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No
“judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put
simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does
not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy
will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission
that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living
wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in
estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate
treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER
for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
Not to mention the fact that the bill is so convoluted that lawyers have a hard time making sense of it.
fireyourguns…HOW DARE YOU show jharp the actual facts in Dear Leader’s health care plan!
jharp KNOWS what’s in that plan because Obama and Nancy Pelosi told her!
The nerve of you pointing out the fallacies in the liberal/ignorant argument.
(Bravo from me personally though!)
Getting through to liberals like jharp is like trying to point out the idiocy of raising taxes on working Americans during a recession.
Fireyourguns: Think about running for congress as you seem to have a handle on the elusive details.
The way to crush the [middle class] is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
–Vladimir Lenin
If Lenin were in today’s American politics he could have added “litigation” to taxation and inflation.
Why should the American people be responsible for paying off the underfunded plans for unions families & retirees & community orgs? This is political payback & is not the resposibility of tax paying citizens. This will cost $10 billion dollars that will expand over time. They are exempt from the govt plan & get to keep their insurance. So, why are they showing up at town halls & rallys showing support? They want our $ & we owe them ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! This $ should be used for creating jobs or helping those who are unemployed or to give someone healthcare. I am sick of Obama taking our $ & handing it to the unions & org’s that got him elected. They donated $60 million dollars to his campaign & have a seat in the White House, then Obama deploys them to silence the opponents of the govt bill, so in essence our very tax dollars are being used against us. Acorn is accused of embezzlement, corruption, $ laundering & voter fraud. The reason Obama didn’t care about the pork & earmarks in the stimulus is because he funneled millions to Acorn. Acorn needs to be disbanded & obliterated from existence, they are not bipartison, & let the American people work for a free & honest govt. They were in NJ trying to overturn the 2nd amendment, now why would they want to disarm the citizens of the United States? Why do we need a civilian army? We have the police, swat, military stationed in the US, National Guard, so why should this civilian army be financed as well, if not better, than our military? Something funny is going on in the Obamanation.
MARCH ON WASHINGTON THIS SATURDAY, 9/12 & LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD!! EVEN SEIU, AFLCIO, ACORN OR MOVEON WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SHUT US UP! TAKE A STAND & LET THEM KNOW WE WILL NOT GO DOWN QUIETLY!!
AThinkingPerson:
“fireyourguns…HOW DARE YOU show jharp the actual facts in Dear Leader’s health care plan!”
And you honestly believe the content of fireyourguns post to be accurate?
Are you a child?
It is complete and utter nonsense. Good Lord, read the moronic sentences.
The wingnuts have lost it. There wouldn’t be 5% of Americans stupid enough to believe that post.
Single issue jharp returns with simple declarative statements that we must accept; they’re obviously true, and if you disbelieve, or if you read the actual bill and come to a different conclusion from what jharp is being paid to repeat, then you are a racist, clueless, an asshole, oh etc etc etc.
Gosh, I wonder how much Soros pays….
speech advice?
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200909080047
Rather, President Obama has proven to be incapable of respectfully addressing and alleviating the concerns of his opponents.
Do you expect any change in tomorrow night’s speech, other than glossing over, aka window dressing ?
And hasn’t this President, already, given almost as many speeches since taking office as he has days in office ?
And don’t we know next to nothing about his intent on “healthcare” except he’s gung ho for the public option/single payor/government taking charge of 1/6 (more) of the economy….no matter what he says in any new speech ?
And didn’t he invite Harry & Nancy over for a chat today to tell them to get busy and do his bidding, given that he’s inept at doing his own bidding ?
jharp:
AThinkingPerson:
“fireyourguns…HOW DARE YOU show jharp the actual facts in Dear Leader’s health care plan!”
And you honestly believe the content of fireyourguns post to be accurate?
Are you a child?
It is complete and utter nonsense. Good Lord, read the moronic sentences.
The wingnuts have lost it. There wouldn’t be 5% of Americans stupid enough to believe that post.
—————————-
Petulant Pet”u*lant — Making slight attacks upon, from a lost dim. of petere to fall upon; the lowering eye, the frown (1913 Webster)
—————————-
The bill says what it says… the translation is accurate! Feel free to make an attempt at debunking any “moronic sentence” of your choosing, then include your translation of the page(s) in question, and we’ll let the good people of PJM decide.
Now and then kindly provides us with a link to George Soros’ stenographers. Thanks but *yawn* no thanks.
Yawn, incidentally, is what American schoolkids did this morning during The Great Leader’s speech.
There wouldn’t be 5% of Americans stupid enough to believe that post.
Gee, last I checked jharp, opposition to Obambi’s plan is well over 5%. Hence The Wee Weed’s Hail Mary pass scheduled for tomorrow evening.
Unfortunately, for him the TOTUS has been overstrained and the American people are tired of his everlasting speechifying. Oh, maybe not his hard core totalitarian groupies, but I’m talking normal people here,…,
Donna V.:
There wouldn’t be 5% of Americans stupid enough to believe that post.
Gee, last I checked jharp, opposition to Obambi’s plan is well over 5%. Hence The Wee Weed’s Hail Mary pass scheduled for tomorrow evening.
______________________________________________________________
I’ll count you in the 5% so ignorant as to accept a wingnut chain e mail as the truth.
And please, wear your badge of ignorance proudly.
43. AThinkingPerson:
“fireyourguns…HOW DARE YOU show jharp the actual facts in Dear Leader’s health care plan!”
Those aren’t facts, they’re opinions. You’d know that if you read the bill.
What he should say is how he thinks he’s gonna collect one f***ing dime from me – his plan penalizes people without health care coverage $3800. You come and try to collect you communist pussy. I dare ya.
What should Obama say in his big speech on health care? Well, if the main stream slave media has anything to say about it, it doesn’t really matter.
All President Obama has to do is hit hard his main talking points; talk about covering the 44 million uninsured Americans so they don’t die because they can’t get medical treatment in the richest country in the world.
Talk about fixing a broken medical coverage system. Babble about how increasing its efficiency will save us billions of dollars, thanks to more competition all around.
Talk about all the lies people tell about ObamaCare.
Talk about rationing. If Obama says they’ll be no rationing, we might have a fire in Washington the size of the one in Chicago on October 8, 1871. But this one won’t start in a barn. It’s start in Obama’s pants.
Like Obama’s speech on race delivered immediately after he’d stepped in it up to his waist by spending twenty years pewing with reverend Wright, then denying he ever heard a disparaging word about anybody or any country, the media will be gushing over Obama’s speech on ObamaCare before a reporter’s finger hits the keyboard or any lights go on in the TV studios.
The point being, if you decide to listen to Obama’s verbal nonsense, you’ll have to make up your own mind about it.
Kind of reminds of when Bush,’41 decided to give a back to school speech to school kids.
Remember what was on the Washington Post front page the day after? “Bush uses school children as pawns to push agenda”.
Another front page column wanted to know who was paying for the 26 thousand dollar production costs. Reporters dug for stories in those days. Today they just dig the President.
Later, in fact, the Democratic congress authorized a special committee to see if any laws were broken by the Bush to kids speech.
Gosh, I wonder if the Washington Post is that inquisitive on its front page about Obama’s school talk tomorrow?
If you think so, you’re as gullible as the folks who’ve made Kevin Trudeau rich.
I see Obama’s vision for America and it’s not pleasant.
Washington bureaucrats who don’t know your parents from Adam will sit on committees to decide if they get expensive live-saving procedures.
Private insurance companies go belly up, and the government has a monopoly on your sick body. (Kind of goes counter to women libbers’ mantra that they don’t want the government telling them what they can do with their bodies).
The wealth of this country is spread around so much that private property becomes a thing of the past.
Hyperinflation hits. A dollar won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on, and even Obama fanatics start thinking seriously about a new direction for this country. Of course by then ACORN will be in charge of counting the votes on election day.
Making it somewhat academic whether you can still afford the trip to the polls.
The President is charged to enforce the laws passed by Congress. Article I, Section 8 enumerates the legitimate areas of federal legislation. Education, or health care, for that matter, don’t seem to have been enumerated as federal concerns by the founders. So what constitutional duty requires the President to communicate directly with my twelve year old daughter? Since Mr. Obama has no mandate, this becomes a political speech.
Now the President, like the rest of us, has a freedom of speech guaranteed by the First
Amendment. In a free context, where my daughter is free to decide whether to listen, he has the same privilege as the rest of us to petition her. But his context is not voluntary. My daughter isn’t at school voluntarily, but because of a mandate. So in this context, this becomes political indoctrination.
In his inaugural, John F. Kennedy admonished us all: ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.’ The lesson plan provided by our arguably unconstitutional Department of Education, instructed by the White House, asked our children to record what they could do for our President. Can anyone see the difference here? Creepy…not buying it…!
41. fireyourguns:
Good work. I see that the jharps of the world have no answer to what’s actually in the bill that Pelosi wants passed.
Now & Then’s rebuttal: ‘Those aren’t facts, they’re opinions. You’d know that if you read the bill.’
Translation: ‘Yeah well, that’s like, your opinion.. man’. – Jeffery Lebowski
Now & Then – I’ve looked at the pages in question regarding fireyourguns HR 3200 interpretation. I honestly don’t see any erroneous comments.
Considering you’ve ‘read the bill’ would you care to share otherwise?
21. trangbang68:
Yes, “overplayed” is an issue. It’s called lying. finger bitten off? The biter was assaulted first (attacked for simply exercising his right to free speech!) Self-defense.
Don’t you have some misinformed outrage to vent over Obama telling kids to be exceptional?
Most likely, BHO will simply continue to lie.
Gabe’s optimistic. I’ll be happy if he limits himself to only five.
What I know BHO will NOT do is mention this new turn of events:
The only thing tonite will be “Socialized Medicine Good”….Sarah Palin “Bad”…
Health Care News and Horrors
The BIG Push is on! The obamanetworks, the obamamedia, and the obamablogosphere are all out there “explaining” and exposing the “myths” of Obamacare to the ignorant peasantry to save national healthcare and Obama’s presidency and legacy.
AARP is into the fray big time and its September issue of the AARP Bulletin features no less than 5 articles on Obamacare, including a 4000 word, 3 page spread entitled, “The Hype, the Lies, the Facts,” according to the AARP.
As we wait expectantly on the eve of Obama’s much-anticipated, prime time Obamacare address to both houses of congress and to the nation, it’s worthwhile to review some recent healthcare news.
The underlying precept of any socialist society or socialistic enterprise is that government knows best. When it comes to Obamacare, a young, healthy, and independent sort who, for whatever reason, feels he or she doesn’t want health insurance, tough!
In a free society one should be free to make that call, no? Well, yes and no.
Implicit in Obamacare is the philosophy that we’re too ignorant to make that decision. Therefore, you would be “free” to opt out but you’ll have to pay for that privilege, pay up to $3800 in fines, per annum, to Washington to be precise: http://bit.ly/QP5OF.
Those charges would be contrary to candidate Obama’s pledge not to impose fines on recalcitrants. However, what’s a pledge when the nation’s well-being is at stake?
It’s understandably a healthcare newsy kind of time.
House GOP Leader John Boehner puts the lie to Obama’s expressed wish for bi-partisanship in passing the most significant legislation in decades. TheHill.com is reporting that Boehner says the president hasn’t met with GOP leaders in over 4 months to discuss “common ground” on healthcare: http://bit.ly/2hmHw.
The fix is obviously in. The ploy of “reconciliation,” a misnomer for shoving a bill through congress without debate or opposition input, will undoubtedly be invoked in order to pass Obamacare with 51 rather that 60 votes in the Senate.
Meanwhile, Obama’s numbers continue their freefall into oblivion. Disapproval on his handling of the health issue has plummeted from 43% to 52% since July, a figure complemented by a rise of 7 percent in his overall approval rating in that same period: http://bit.ly/zKaIV
His only chance to apply the skids is to get some form of Obamacare passed and fast and then move on to trying his hand at governing rather than campaigning. Regrettably, Americans have short memories and people won’t wake up to the full impact until after the 2010 and, hopefully, the 2012 elections.
Across the Pond in Merry Ol’ England, they’ve been waking up for a good while now as to the horrors of their vaunted NHS, the UK’s National Health Service. . . .
(Read the rest at http://genelalor.com)
In case you haven’t yet heard: Drudge reports the Dems don’t have the votes to pass Obamacare.
Man, that news is gonna make jharp run out and bite off someone’s finger. Me, I rejoice.
Juss watched the Bama on national TV. what a speech! He called on the Republicans to join him in a bipartisan effort to pass his healthcare bill. (I’m sure he’s read it by now.) How civil these democrats are! these are the same democrats that wanted to impeach George Bush, held demonstrations, and tried to block every piece of legislation George Bush’s camp came up with. I didn’t know that I am unAmerican juss because I’m a Republican. I guess I better remove the bumper sticker on my car that says “God bless America”.
I better stop now, I have to go applaud the reruns of the President’s speech.
DROOL FROM THE FOOL!
There are some really good philisophical points made here. As a fiscal conservative/social liberal, I struggle with this issue and don’t pretend to know all sides. However, I did want to point out that fireyourguns’ post that referenced page numbers of bill #HR-3200 doesn’t make sense. There are no page numbers for this bill, only articles and sections. I suppose if someone cut and pasted it into a document viewer it may have arbitrary page numbers, however if one were truly attempting to show the location of such ‘facts’, they would certainly use “article ____, section _____ “. Those were some great claims, but aren’t supported by text from the bill.
And yes, it is a total bitch to read through. I guess that’s why we all tend to accept the views of those whom we respect rather than to research for ourselves. The trouble comes when the respected leaders of our country care more about winning elections and staying in office than running our country or being our voice.
Cheers,
Dave
Dave #68 – I’d found an online version provided, with page numbers from the Washington Examiner. Here ya go..
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12837-US-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m8d10-Health-care-bill-HR-3200-read-it-online-now
Now & Then, were still waiting for you to ‘enlighten’ the masses with the ‘truth’ regarding the ‘Power to the People’ HR 3200.
Regarding the, ahem, ‘speech’ last night. Could Sir Teleprompter be more vague? He should star as the Riddler in the next Batman movie. The big question mark on his costume would be fitting..
What did I expect. He doesn’t release his medical records but a 140 page ‘o.k.’ note from a doctor. No college transcripts released due to being an affirmative action recipient. Writes of his ‘wonderful Aunt’ in his book though doesn’t know she lives in the U.S., illegally, on the welfare dole for years.. et al.,
-Half a trillion dollars allocated away from medicare the next ten years, though medicare services won’t be effected by the loss?
-The + 1 trillion dollar program will not lead to higher taxes. Apparently the CBO didn’t get the memo?
The addition of 53 bureaucracies, 100′s of billions more to the national debt and raising taxes on job creators ~ $600 billion is in the bill. Good thing?
Excuse me, a 140 ‘WORD’ed letter from a doctor.