What the World Isn’t Being Told about the Israeli-Lebanese Border Incident
Despite the careful “he said … she said” approach of the mainstream news media about the clash along the Lebanese-Israeli border this week, events are quite clear: Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) were deliberately ambushed by Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF).
In an outdoor press conference held at a lookout point above the Lebanese border where the incident occurred, Ilan Diksteyn, the deputy commander of the Israeli brigade, explained what happened. The IDF had notified the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) of its intentions and complied with multiple requests to delay a routine job that should have started early in the morning and didn’t get going till midday.
According to Diksteyn, he had personally walked the border with the UNIFIL commander and identified all the trees and shrubs they intended to cut down, all approved of as being located on the Israeli side of the border by the UNIFIL commander. The key tree was some 200 meters from the Blue Line, so there was not the most remote possibility that Israel trespassed on Lebanese territory. The IDF even set out the crane without a man in it, just to demonstrate their intentions beforehand.
But no sooner did they put a man in the unit and lift him over the fence than a sniper shot and killed the commanding officer of the unit who was away from the border and observing from a distance. Despite claiming they fired first in the air, and that Israel initiated the hostilities, an LAF spokesman eventually asserted their right “to defend Lebanon’s sovereignty.”
The Israelis claim this was an ambush by units of the Lebanese Armed Forces. And as such, this was an unprecedented new level of aggression. Even the normally cautious UNIFIL, which the previous day had restricted itself to calling for calm and announcing its intention to investigate, eventually — and exceptionally — sided with Israel’s claim that the tree was on their side of the border. Even the Lebanese admit they carried out an ambush.
Of course, for UNIFIL to do so means that Israel had to be unquestionably and irrefutably in the right — “2-300 meters away,” the Israeli officer claimed. Otherwise the UN troops, which operate on the Lebanese side of the border and are subject to constant harassment by Hezbollah, would have found some way to equivocate if not prevaricate. After all, in violation of UN Resolution 1701, which the UNIFIL forces have been deployed to enforce, Hezbollah has managed to rearm and reoccupy the southern border. Indeed, pictures of UNIFIL troops standing side by side with heavily armed LAF troops suggest that the efforts to prevent a clash consisted primarily in getting the Israelis not to do what they had a right to do, rather than preventing the Lebanese from doing what they had no right to do.
From here on out, however, the story gets fuzzy. While some newspapers acknowledged UNIFIL’s confirmation of the Israeli “narrative,” few bothered to draw out the implications, and some, like France2, continued to insist the tree was on the Lebanese side. The New York Times, for example, in a remarkably uninformed article, acknowledged the correction, but ended up repeating the “he said … she said” dance by quoting Lebanese officials rather than questioning them about the problems. The Wall Street Journal emphasized the efforts of UNIFIL to prevent an incident, without even addressing the disturbing evidence that they collaborated in the ambush, and then took a day to state what they knew from the beginning — that Israel was on its own turf.
On the contrary, everyone, including the Israelis, is backing off drawing the disturbing conclusions. The intelligence officer who briefed reporters off-record refused to draw even the most elemental conclusions from the incident, even negating claims by major Israeli public figures that the incident was an ambush. He admitted that the Lebanese army had an increasing number of Shiites rising up to the rank of officer, and that even if they were not Hezbollah, many of them had family in Hezbollah. Israel so wants this arrangement with UNIFIL and the LAF to work that they play down their own case.
The intelligence officer even tried to suggest, without dotting the i’s, that this was a rogue incident. He characterized it as an escalation of the “spirit of the commander,” a belligerence that has grown in the past weeks, especially since a Shiite commander took over the brigade that patrols this section of the south. He alluded to a “Levantine attitude” (by which I assume he meant macho behavior), leading Lebanese soldiers to make often imaginative hand gestures at the Israelis (“do you bite your thumb at me sir?”).
Of course sniper fire aimed at a commanding officer in the background (first shot) and RPGs (after a lull) hardly seems constant with escalating the kind of chest-thumping described by the Israeli officer. And the most recent remarks from the Lebanese officer present at last night’s parlay with UNIFIL and an Israeli general make it clear that this came from the top. But theories on just what set of interests set in motion the aggression remain speculative.
In the end we have a grave incident which illustrates more clearly than anything that the Lebanese, and Hezbollah in particular, can begin a war any time they want. And that one of the main forces intended to hinder Hezbollah’s belligerence has been deeply compromised from below, from above, from both directions.
Indeed, the most widespread speculation is that Hezbollah, via sympathetic members of the LAF, provoked the incident to distract from approaching revelations by the Special UN Tribunal for Lebanon — perhaps even arrests — that would reveal major Hezbollah involvement in the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri in 2005.
Nothing better illustrates the cultural differences between Lebanon, the closest thing to a “democracy” Arab political culture has so far produced, and Israel, the only Western democratic element in the Middle East since the end of World War II. Lebanon, with a thick web of religious, clan, and political solidarities and hostilities, takes war as the norm. Even public statements reflect the kind of tribal “us-them” rhetoric that fosters conflict. Said the commander of the Lebanese army of the incident: “Your brave stand in the face of the treacherous enemy … proved to this enemy that any aggression on our people and land will not pass without a price.” He told this to soldiers in the south.
So Hezbollah, one of the most religious and most powerful of the factions in Lebanon, risks a war with a more powerful neighbor, in order to distract attention from embarrassing, potentially explosive, revelations about its Machiavellian deeds. They can do so because Israel, rather than explode at the slightest attack, has a high tipping point for violence.
This would, on some level, represent a fairly common initial relationship between democracies and “strong horse” political cultures: they provoke, the democracy shows restraint. What’s so unusual about this conflict is the way the media at best enable and at worst stoke the most bellicose elements by serving as the mouthpiece for their propaganda. It apparently teems with people East and West, for whom journalistic standards are sacrificed in an inexplicable rush to present the warmongers as oppressed underdogs.






Nothing new about the mainstream media being biased, of course, now rather than just spin, you get out-right lies. But, media bias & unprofessionalism is now too well known to comment on, although it’s important to expose as many lies as possible.
My own personal opinion is that the New York Times & the Washington Post should convert their business model & manufacture toilet paper.
The incident on the Lebanese border was an ambush, a deliberate murder.
The current situation is the result of past blunders by Israeli politicians.
Ehud Barak (serial blunderer par excellence) withdrew from S. Lebanon & left the field to Hezbollah. Successive gov.’t.s ignored the Hezbollah arms build-up. In the last conflict in Lebanon, our bungling politicians mismanaged the war & did not finish off Hezbollah. Worse, they made the even more serious mistake of not demolishing Syria for it’s role in this Lebanon mess. Olmert & the rather brainless Tzippi Livni set the stage for a much larger war.
Lebanon is now a Hezbollah-controled terrorist state under the direction of Syria & Iran. Of course, this doesn’t bother the Obama administration, they have a particular fondness for Islamic terrorists. The U.S. still contributes millions in military aid to the Lebanese Army. Believe me, all of us in Israel appreciate America arming our enemies, all the stranger because they are YOUR enemies as well.
Eventually, war will break out. And, now all of Lebanon is a target.
This is what appeasement brings – larger more destructive wars, more dead, more misery.
But, of course, for Liberals & Leftists, why settle for a few thousand dead today when you can have milllions dead tomorrow.
That should read American Marxist/BLT/CFR government, not America. We are trying very hard to rid ourselves of the poop, and come November, we will see results.
Thank you,
If a sniper targeted and killed someone, how could it possibly matter precisely where a gosh-darned tree was? Was the tree made of enormous diamonds, platinum bars and tons of pure gold wafers? People need to focus, for heaven’s sake!
The main question is: was the sniper acting under specific orders to pull the trigger, or did he do it because he got over eager, over amped, or overly nervous while holding an Israeli officer in his scope’s cross hairs (for who knows how many minutes or hours)?
If he was specifically ordered to pull the trigger, was it by a Sargeant, a junior officer, a senior General, or the Lebanese President? It makes all the difference in the world. But as usual, nobody will even ask these questions, and even if they did, one can never know if the answer is the truth. They seem too busy arguing about the precise location of that lousy tree. What freakishly stupid idiotic fools.
I read two good articles that relate to this subject.
At the site Mere Rhetoric, ”Did Lebanon Use American Weapons to Attack Israel.” by
Omri Ceren. http://www.mererhetoric.com/2010/08/04/did-lebanon-use-american-weapons-to-attack-israel/
At the site Hot Air, ”Attacks on Israel: Watch the South.” by J.E. Dyer.
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/08/04/attacks-on-israel-watch-the-south/
I tried posting these links at the Israeli news site YNET twice yesterday in a comment on the subject of the clash on the Lebanese border. But, Ynet has a leftist agenda (big revelation there) so they wouldn’t post it. Now isn’t that surprising, Leftists are supposed to be the champions of free speech, the free exchange of ideas ……but only if it conforms to their agenda.
thank you terry in eliat for your comments and links, it does not take too much
imagination/reasoning to see iran revolutionary guards and all the intel gathered and then the hit ordered. the man that was targeted and murdered was a known, and was chosen to be hit.
Aside from these absolute facts, that the IDF was on its side of the border, and that UNIFIL gave a wink and a nod to the ensuing attack, what is lost in the MSM ‘reporting’ is that the LAF is the second ! largest recipient of military aid from the US for the past 5 years.
Let us all wrap our minds around this. Hizbullah has been entrenched,to varying degrees, since 2005 in its gov’t.There is little doubt that the bullets/weapons used to shoot the Israeli officers were US made.
Moreover, in the same see no (Islamic) evil, hear no (Islamic) evil,US monies/trainers are busy arming the PA. Unless a lion becomes a lamb, there is NO doubt that the US weapons/training will be used (as they have been in the past)against Israeli troops in a massive way.
Thus, it must be stated for the record – US leaders, with taxpayer’s money, are funding both Hizbullah and Hamas.Not only have they given over 400 million recently to Gaza, but in the not too distant future Hamas will gobble up the rest of the PA’s US made weapons.
Truth be told, the US leadership (not its citizens)are doing everything possible to destroy Israel, not necessarily through a full throttle annihilation, but towards an indefensible position, to slowly bleed her to death.
Understanding this goes a long way to internalizing the misrepresentation of the latest clash, both by the in lockstep MSM, and by the radical left leadership.
Sadly, as the Gideon Lichfield has so aptly pointed out: “It is ironic that the fundamental disagreement between Jews and Palestinians today is not about whether there should be a Palestinian state; most Israeli Jews accepted that long ago. It is about whether there should be a Jewish one. (“How the other fifth lives,” The Economist, April 3, 2008).
This is the real product of the duplicity and treachery of the New York Times, the Guardian, the Washington Post, Reuters, the Associated Press and the major American and European news outlets. Their lies and half truths about Israel have managed to produce an Israel which has become almost entirely isolated internationally, which is not permitted to use it’s military force ever to defend her citizens, which suffers the hostility of most of the so called enlightened Western states, and whose legitimacy to even exist is daily called into question. These mainsttream media have done even worse, they have produced an Israel which is expected to concede to every and all Palestinian and Arab demands, no matter how absurd, how dangerous, and no matter how genocidal.
how long will Israel sit on it’s hands?
time to start calling this war a war.
Well, I can only hope that Israel learned a media lesson as well. If an army activity is not purely militarily operational as a battle, that is, with guns firing, but such as this was, there is a very good reason to invite the media along to observe. That way, our side of the story will be available almost real time.
Something is going on here, and it’s not good. It doesn’t take much to start a war between Israel and Hezbollah. Remember, the last time Israel invaded Lebanon it was because of the kidnapping of only 2 Israeli soldiers. So another such provocation on the part of Hezbollah (or one of its factions within the Lebanese Army) could easily start another war.
But why now? Why risk another war with Israel and all the destruction that will be associated with it? This must have something to do with Iran, Hezbollah’s major ally and arms supplier. Does Iran want a war with Israel to distract Iranians at home, who have a growing hatred for their own government and who are openly protesting against the mullahs? Perhaps the muallahs are getting scared at all of the civil unrest in Iran and want to change the subject, and fast.
If I were the Israelis, I would be on guard now for something big, something that Hezbollah could use as an excuse for another war. The question is, how big will this “incident” be and how many people are going to get killed over it. The key, though, is in Iran. If the internal pressure against the mullahs can be maintained, it may actually speed up the demise of the Iranian regime. Unfortunately, A LOT of people, both in Iran and Lebanon, will die before this happens.
Be on your guard, Israel. We are entering a very dangerous, and unstable, time here.
Activist journalists in a war are Propagandists and combatants. At the scene or at home, they and their editors should not enjoy safety.
NEVER look to the MSM for the “TRUTH” they’re willing conspirators.
One interesting question is whether or not the sniper rifle is a U.S. supplied weapon. The quotes below are from “The Cable” at Foreign Policy Mag.
“Thus far, the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) and Internal Security Forces have proven good stewards of the items the Pentagon has given them, including more than 1,000 small-arms items like sniper rifles and even some Harley Davidson motorcycles, reducing fears that the weapons will fall into Hezbollah’s hands.
But this week’s deadly shooting exchange between LAF and Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers over the removal of a tree near the security fence dividing the two countries is raising old questions about the dependability of the LAF, and whether U.S. arms are being used to attack Israel, America’s closest ally in the region.
Neither the U.S. nor Israeli governments know for sure whether the sniper rifle that an LAF soldier fired to start the incident was from the batches of M16 sniper rifles that came from the United States. But some in Congress are determined to find out.”
Won’t that be fun?!
I don’t know WHO you are quoting there…but there is nothing “Sniper” about an M16! Their only benefit is thy are light weight, good at close range if they don’t jam on you!
method makes a sniper …any long gun will do.
some are just better suited then others, a dead man cann’t argue that point
What kind of vetran are you that you think an M16 can’t be used as snipers rifle?
Have you forgotten the DC Sniper that kept the USA traumatised for months?
He was using an M16.
In an ideal media world which we once naively assumed existed, a story like this might fall under the radar of some media outlets, but be picked up by others because they would be all working independently and competing against each other. But in reality what happens is that important stories such as this one are routinely ignored by all branches of the MSM. Why? One might as well ask what is it about particular stories such as this one that the WH, the Democratic party, and the left in general would want to keep it under wraps, because the MSM of today are really only propaganda organs with no discernible independence from the left or from each other, and act as parts of single entity. The message or in this case the news black-out is being coordinated across the MSM to fulfill their assigned duty in pushing whatever radical, hard left political agenda the WH and Democrats deem appropriate for that day.
The Lebanese are as jealous as a jilted lover with regard to Israel. Why should Israel be able to integrate Jews and Arabs, Circassians and Druze, gentile Russians and black Jews from Ethiopia in the same society. Lebanon cannot even come to peace with its indigenous populations, can’t offer citizenship or even work to its Palestinians who they still keep corralled in camps from 1948, can’t come to peace with any of its neighbors – Israel or Syria. They have every right to be angry – but the anger should be turned inward. All cold comfort to the family these cowards destroyed.
And Mr. Netanyahu’s response to this act of war has been……?
The sad upshot of all of this will be a confalgaration between Israel and the sovereign state of Lebanon.No hazy grey areas that existed in the last conflict. If this is eventuality is allowed to develope by the West and encouraged by the dishonesty of the MSM, Lebanon will be bombed back 50 years. By adopting the cultural preference of the Islamic world i.e believing ones own concocted mistruths the MSM will allow the destruction of moderrn Lebanon
Do you get the feeling that the UNIFIL was a willful partner of the ambush. Delaying things so that the Lebanese could get set up. This whole thing stinks of conspiracy.The UN seems to have some major problems with their so called “peace keeping forces”. The I don’t see, I don’t hear and I don’t talk attitude suits them just fine. Also 99% of the time they are on the wrong side.
Well, Israel’s previous experience with UNIFIL regarding video.
In 2000, UNIFIL videotaped Israeli soldiers being kidnapped by Hezbollah, refused to give Israel the tape, for a year the UN denied the video existed (including Kofi Annan and the infamous UN Middle East envoy Terje Larsen), and finally released it to the Israelis with the faces of the Hezbollah kidnappers blacked out.
SSDD, as they say.
I’m reminded of the “missile through the roof of an ambulance” canard from several years ago, with all the fake photos of an ambulance whose roof light fixture had been removed and dozens of holes made in the roof with an axe, and which was then presented as having been hit with a missile from an Israeli fighter bomber. Never mind there was no evidence of flame damage in the vehicle, that occupants SURVIVED with minor injuries and no burns, and that the vehicle was still whole without any floor damage or even any flat tires. The narrative was established. Israel had fired on an ambulance. Many news outlets are still saying this after four years of exposure, notably by Zombie, who writes here, I believe.
Even after Anderson Cooper had done a story about all the fake ambulance runs being photographed for media distribution, the narrative survived in the MSM.
Now, the narrative is “Israel fired first, Israel crossed the border, Hezbollah was defending its sovereignty”, etc. How long until the truth is widely distributed? Don’t hold your breath.
Thank God almighty for the internet, talk radio, Fox news. And note that Obama is dead set on gaining control of the internet “for emergencies”, which will soon consist of any narrative that is not the WH approved one. Fox has already been targeted by the WH, with some surprising pushback from the MSM on that one… but the respite is only temporary. Talk radio is on the target list for ‘community organizers’, who will gain local control of the politics surrounding broadcast licenses, and national network talk radio will die in favor of ‘community concerns’ which in fact demolish listenership and cause radio to need SUBSIDIES from government, like newspapers are asking for TODAY.
Why doesn’t Israel just dump herbicide from planes all along the border region. If the H. supporting villagers there can no longer grow crops, well too bad…
Eh. So what did you expect of the media? Of the UN? Of Lebanon? Of the current government of the US?
History has shown that appeasement or “Land for Peace” does not work. On the contrary it is counterproductive and ends in a disaster. Menachem Begin gave the Sinai Back to Egypt hoping for peace. The outcome: there is nothing but formal talks with Egypt there is no real peace. This situation could be overturned instantly with any regime change in Egypt. The facts are: the Egyptians allow the smuggling of weapons to Gaza and the firing of rockets into Eilat.
The area in northern Israel stretching to the Litany River was returned to Lebanon. This area, which is the historical border of Israel, was stolen by the arrangement between the British and the French in 1920. The outcome – Hezbolla is the De facto rulers of this area and is on the way to control the entire country.
Sharon retreated from Gaza. The outcome: Hamas took the area over and now it is a total disaster.
The leadership in Israel has to realize that dealing with the Arabs cannot be done “On the Cheap”. You must invest the time, manpower and money to control and defeat these Arab extremists. Rabin and Peres tried this copout with Yasir Arafat, look at the disaster we have on our hands.
So a bunch of insane religious nutjobs in Israel are bickering again with the insane religious nutjobs in Iran/Hezbollah. As an American, why should I care? In fact, why does our government take sides in this endless religious war?
My only hope is that Iran will finally start building nuclear weapons. Once that happens, there will be a chance of peace in the Middle East.
Israel knows it can act with impunity because big brother USA keeps providing them with weapons and welfare. When Iran/Hezbollah finally have the ability to push back, the belligerents in Israel won’t be able to use tanks and bombers as their primary negotiating tool.
nothing like pointing out that someone murdered a Jew in cold blood to bring out the anti-semites in these comments …
What did I say that qualifies me as an “Anti-Semite”?
If “your only hope is for Iran to finally start building nuclear weapons”, then being considered an Anti-Semite should be the least of your concerns. In the simplest terms; YOU ARE EVIL AND AGAINST HUMANITY. If you believe that Iran needs these for defense only and would not threaten or use them preemptively then you are stupid as well.
Every single example in history has shown that when two belligerents acquire nuclear weapons, peace is the result.
The best hope for ending the war between Israel and Iran/Hezbollah is for both sides to be too scared to do anything.
“Peace is the result”???
The Russian communists were atheists while the Teheran regime is comprised of radical muslim theists that believe if they die in the struggle that htey caused then shall have a their reward in heaven with 72 virgins.
Actually, they hope to have their cake and eat it too. They plan on haning out in bomb shelters while they conflagrate WW III. This they believe will bring the 13th Imam out of “hiding” and then Islam can conquer the world and kill all non-Muslims /Infidels (even the supposed “people of the book”.
So perhaps you should do some research instead of being ethnocentric and projecting your ideas and value system on anther group that hold radically different ones.
An Iranian nuclear weapon is a chance for peace?
Wow, that’s some serious medications you are on.
As oppossed to an aetheist nutjob?
ExtraStout firstly the only people acting with impunity are those that can setup a photo-journalistic oppertunity to witness the shooting of 2 senior officers standing 300 meters behind the fence on the Israeli side and saying that they fired “warning-shots” and that they are defending Lebanise soil – which happens to be on the Israeli side of the Blue Line. And despite the facts they get the support of the MSM who are willing to blatantly lie about events (there isn’t even a shadow of doubt what happened here).
Secondly – if you watch the Dohar Debates aired by the BBC – you will hear all Arabs state that if they were to accept a 2 state solution and recognise Israel – there would be peace and no-need to persecute the Palastinians living in their countries like Lebanon – BUT that this would be giving in to the Zionists.
So ExtraStout there is no chance for a nuclear weapon stalemate as you suggest as the goal of the Arabs is to eliminate the Jewish State. The status quo can simply be achieved by the recognition of Israel by the Arabs.
You are either naive – for believing stated Arab intentions – or an anti-semite for promoting the acquisition of nuclear weapons to be used in the destruction of the Jewish people.
Clearly a UNIFIL-aided provocation. Hard to say what motivates the US to supply the LAF. Well, it’s either 1) try to help the ‘moderates’ within Lebanon, who have already lost; 2) squeeze Israel to make it more malleable on other issues.
The US under Obama gives large aid to Hamas, er, to ‘Gaza’, builds up the PA police forces (against Hamas, in theory, against Israel, in the most likely scenario), goes nuts over building in Jewish Jerusalem, and now the Lebanese gambit. Whether people like Geller and Spencer are right that this is an Islamic-Taqiya agenda or whether this is just the old-school Arabists taking over US ME policy – GHW Bush on steroids – this is dire.
Ken Besig, sorry, it’s up to Israel to deal with this, not to allow this to go on. Terry, appreciate your sentiments. Do pro-Israel Americans understand how average Israelis feel at this point? Do they care?
Larry.
Take a look at comment #22 Vinny B – this is the intellectual level of the anti-Israel crowd, an imaginary Israel that exists only in what passes for a mind, like the peasants of the Middle-Ages imagining demons & witches. Facts & rational analysis mean nothing, which is why I gave up long ago answering these cretins.
American policy in the Middle-East, the State Dept. version, has never been even remotely pro-Israel. The same goes for many at the Pentagon & the CIA. I read a good analysis somewhere, I think by Spengler who writes for the Asia Times, you might try to find it if you’re interested. But, all in all, American policy is most influenced by Saudi Arabia. In any case, US foreign policy has been spectacularly unsuccessful generally & particularly so in the Middle-East.
You are absolutely correct when you say that Israel must deal with this ourselves but I have little confidence in Netanyahu & that as*hole Ehud Barak.
Pro-Israel Americans should be outraged that their tax dollars are used this way, not only because they’re pro-Israel but because they should be pro-American & this is not a policy that serves America’s interests.
Shabbat Shalom.
Shabbat Shalom, Terry. I read one of Vinny’s posts, that was enough. There are always new entries in this category. They are the after-a-few-beers versions of those like Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson, etc., who just the other day let Obama know that Israel planned the Six Day War in advance to steal Arab land, blah-blah.
Yes, on the policy. I have written several pieces about it. I have also clashed with Geller and the FPM crowd over their theories about how Republicans are really pro-Israel. It’s why I posted several days ago about Evangelicals and the two-state plank that Rove inserted in the Republican platform in ’04. If you are Jewish, pro-Israel and honest with yourself, then the idea that the ‘best way to help Israel’ is by supporting the proper Gentile politicians in the Golah must be dismissed. But never is.
On 08/05/2010 in North Texas it was 108, and a heat index of 119. If these last ten years are an example, every time a government does something big against Israel, some type of natural over the top problem happens.
May the New World Order/New Age rot in Hell for it’s hate towards Israel, and it’s help to terror groups like Hizboallah, and Hamas.
Thanks for your support, Leatherneck in Texas.
As long as we are just guessing here, here’s mine. I think Israel is putting the final touches on a plan to take out Iran’s nuclear capabilities. If so, Israel would do anything to avoid drawing public attention to itself. Let’s say the American media for once suspected what is coming and is even trying to help…perhaps with Obama’s request. I think Iran is trying to use Hizbollah to draw out the Israelis and get a sense of what is going on. I predict more such incidents in the near future. I also predict a raid before the year is out.
Willis, yes and yes…….
Oh please. Even if Lebanon did something first, it was only acting in self-defense against the world’s most oppressive human rights violator. Not surprised right-wingers would come out of the woodwork to support Israel, since they would love to put blacks and gays in the same apartheid system here as they have in Israel.
Defending a tree from human rights violators … dial down the incoherence.
What the eff are you talking about??!!?? Blacks and Gays in an apartheid system in Israel??
Vinny B. you are seriously delusional.
You forgot your /sarc tag.
Wow, Vinny. Is that a new trend?
In the past you lefties at least tried to pretend that you have brains – here, you didn’t even make the slightest attempt.
Vinny:
You are a perfect illustration of how virulent, viscious anti-semitism has jumped the boundary from the old extreme radical right to the extreme left, or even the no-so-extreme left.
Nothing discredits a person and tags him as a hateful insect than to make over-the-top accusations about Israel. It’s a disgrace that fools like yu can feel safe again making such idiotic remarks.
Vinny B,
I you feel nauseous when looking yourself at the mirror,do not be too concerned !
It is NORMAL….
Yikes
If all your moral values are so skewed, you will never be happy….
Vinny B. Needs an education.. not only so well put that in ISrael there is less racism than other other countries and the Arabs who newly call themselves “palis” are indeed treated better in Israel than in other coutnries. There, they enjoy freedom of worship, welfare, (funded to make Muslim babies), no need to serve the government in return like the Jews do, ability to attain a university education, citizenship, right to vote serve in the Kensset etc…
BTW, Right-wingers stand up for people’s rights. Left-wingers fought against human rights and civil rights. Republican party was founded and abolished slavery while the democrats leftists fought to retain this despicable institution.
Civil rights were passed about a hundred years ago and repealed by the Democrats.
Civil rights were re-triumphed in the 1960′s -thak you right-wing republicans-while many democrats voted against it.
check this out by a Black American…it will no doubt be a trip for you (errh a paradigm shift) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw_yKC-f5PU&feature=PlayList&p=C20E739C82BFD476&index=0
The late Byrd that just dies recently the Democrat was a member of the KKK…so come down off your faux high horse and get a REAL education….not a manufactured one.
By the way the UNIFIL troops were Indonesian and shouted after the first shooting in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_BEOIrfs2E&translated=1
Vinny B: you clearly have never been to Israel, since you know nothing about how Israel treats its blacks and its gays.
(Short answer: Israel does as well, or better, than anyone else in the world. Read up on Operation Solomon, in which Israel rescued thousands of blacks that nobody else gave a damn about — and gave them all full citizenship. Or read up about the many gay Palestinians who run for their lives to Israel, knowing that they’ll be safe in the only Middle Eastern country with annual Gay Pride parades.)
Heck, Israel treats Palestinians better than any other country in the Middle East — better than Jordan, better than Syria, better than Lebanon, better than Egypt, a damn sight better than Kuwait, and so on, and so on.
Israel is not without faults, and no Israeli would claim that Israel is perfect. But Israel’s human-rights record is as good or better than any other country in the world. Period.
And if you don’t believe me, go see for yourself. Buy a ticket, hire a tour guide, look around, ask questions. Go with your eyes open; you’ll see a lot, learn a lot, and have a fabulous time besides.
Unless, of course, you’d prefer to stay where you are and spout off on issues about which you know nothing. But there’s no distinction there; anybody can do that.
cheers,
Daniel in Brookline
For those who ignore it, palestinian in Lebanon cannot buy a property and just a few jobs are authorized… and 60 years after they arrived in this country, they cannot acquire the citizenship. You said Arizona
))
Vinny B @ #22, it also is not surprising that a human-rights hater would show up to lie about the world’s oldest and most tried and tested human-rights organization, the Jewish religion.
extrastout @ 19; those tanks and bombers are a result of the Jihad against Israel –if they weren’t strictly defensive, they could have been cruising the streets of Damascus and Cairo for the last fifty years.
The truth is apparent to everyone except moral idiots. The tanks and bombers are what keep Jewish children’s heads attached to their bodies.
What’s the matter with you, you can’t tell a cart from a horse? Or maybe you’re a Nazi, eh?
You’re right. Anybody who utters even the slightest criticism of Israel must automatically be a Nazi.
No, extrastout, you’re wrong. Maybe you didn’t read your own comment. Take a look –it’s #19.
By your position you join those who claim that moral equivalence exists between a hundred year Nazi Jihadi extermination attack on a certain small, ridiculously outnumbered tribe of people, on a landhold that a tank can drive across in 30 minutes, and that tribe’s minimalist (meaning never threatening-in-kind the existence of their oppressors’ very seed upon the earth) effort to survive that attack.
Since by your position you join that school of thought, and since Nazis are the flower of that school, i asked you if you were a Nazi. Note, i didn’t call you a Nazi. I just asked if you were one.
Had the Jewish tribe recently murdered two thirds of the Hottentots, and were trying mightily to kill the rest of them too, then “Jew” might carry the same opprobrium as “Nazi”.
So, since it’s not the world’s fault that Nazis don’t want to be called Nazis –since it’s the Nazis fault –i’d say, that if you don’t like being asked if you are a Nazi, then you should take that up with the Nazis, don’t you think?
First, and I can’t believe I’m forced to say this, but for the record, I am not a Nazi.
Also, you might want to know that when your first inclination is to call somebody a Nazi, you completely undermine your argument. I know you didn’t directly call me a Nazi, but the statement “Or maybe you’re a Nazi, eh?” is enough.
Second, I have zero sympathy for Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, or Israel. From my point of view (a patriotic American who grew up in California), they are all equally guilty of encouraging and perpetuating their silly religious wars. I’m tired of seeing my own government take sides in that endless war, and it’s baffling to me as to why my fellow Americans would choose one side or the other. It’s not our fight.
Both sides suffer from terrible leadership and a complete lack of foresight, and I stand by my original statement that the only way to end their petty wars is for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.
extrastout, let me boil it down as far as i can boil it down, and maybe on this second or third run at it you’ll glom the meaning of your assignation of ‘moral equivalence’.
Your basic idea is that ‘they should just quit fighting’ and since they won’t, they’re equally at fault. OK, so can either side just quit? Yes, you say?
So what happens if the nazi jihad quits fighting? Nothing, right? Just, no more war, right?
okay now be honest on this, so we won’t have been wasting our time on each other: what happens if the Israelis quit fighting?
(better yet, because of the historical evidence) What happens when the Israelis quit fighting?
See, unless either side, unless each side, unless both sides, face morally equivalent consequences of quitting the fight, then there can’t possibly be any moral equivalence in the fight itself. per se, ipso facto, and all that. And no fair changing word meanings –if we can do that, then i deem you a golden unicorn in the next room, and tomorrow i trade you to Zeus for fifty billion rubies and emeralds and a new set of tires for my old Ford pickup.
“It’s not our fight.”
Let me rephrase that for you: “My brain is completely useless.”
“Anybody who utters even the slightest criticism of Israel must automatically be a Nazi”.
ExtraStout, this is not criticism and it’s not slight. Israel is not made of religious nut jobs, it’s a democracy run by the people, for the people.
Israel has to act as it has no other option but to defend herself from the enemies who surround her. So, big brother or not, Israel must act.
As an American you have the right to “not care” about Israel or the ME but please don’t complain when gas cost $10 a gallon.
Trust me, it may not be easy at first, but Israel will survive without the US.
The media “apparently teems with people East and West, for whom journalistic standards are sacrificed in an inexplicable rush to present the warmongers as oppressed underdogs.”
“Inexplicable”! Gimme a break!
The media, “East and West” teems with anti-Semites.
Why is it so difficult to state the obvious?
Hisham Jaber, former army commander of the Beirut district, U.S. trained (in psychological warfare) and highly influential in the LAF gave an interview to Al Jazeera two days ago in which he totally supported Hezbollah and Nasrallah even to the point of implicating Israel in the Hariri assassination. This alone should remove any doubts of the alliance of the LAF with Hez.
The MSM isn’t reporting the story? Who cares? The story is out and those who have an interest in the region know about it. They know it from Drudge, the Jerusalem Post, The Wall Street Journal, the Times of London and Fox. They know it from their discussion groups at their temples.
It is the MSM that looks like idiots. Folks are catching on.
France2 publish the AFP. In standard French AFP means Agence FRANCE Presse but here in France (Eurabia) we name it Agence France Palestine
I’m neither Jew nor Arab. I’m not Israeli or a citizen of any Arab state. I believe there are warmongers, and therefore profiteers, on both sides, but at least Israel is a democracy and the West understands it better. Do the ordinary citizens of ANY Arab state have a say in who is going to lead their countries? Muslim religious beliefs are manipulated by warmongers. Certain Israelis would love to do likewise with Jewish religious beliefs, but I doubt whether they are able to gain a creditable following. Last but not least, Israeli armed forces no longer seem to enjoy their former credibility and efficaciousness, while more and more Muslims are willing to commit suicide to murder Jew and fellow-Arab, most usually to no military advantage.
Stout writith:
“that the only way to end their petty wars is for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons”
This is wrong on so many levels I dont know where to begin.
First, it is based on the false premise that there is no such thing as war between nuclear powers. Perhaps you should read up on the history of India and Pakistan. The Packs actually launched a full scale war against nuclear India in 1999 after it had aquired its own nuclear force. That conflict still goes on as a “petty war” to this day, very similar to the situation between Lebanon and Israel.
That idea also totally ignores the countless proxy wars which have gone on between nuclear powers. One of which actually resulted in the current mess in Afghanistan and indirectly resulted in 9/11. It also ignores the many documented cases during the cold way where nuclear exchange very nearly happened between the US and USSR due to political crises or accidental reasons.
It also ignores the fact that Israel and Iran are not now at war and never have been to I fail to see the logic of how Iranian nukes will prevent anything. Israel has them and it has not stopped its enemies from attacking it at all including Iranian proxy Hezbolla.
Additionally Israel is by far not the only nation pushing to keep Iran from building Nukes. Arab nations are leading advocates of the effort to prevent this from happening.
According to your logic what we should have done after 9/11 was just give Al-Queda part of our nuclear stockpile. Then we would both have them and the conflict would be over, or better yet just arm every single nation and political group on earth and there would be no more war at all.
So the reason people are calling you names is because a lot of people cannot believe that wishing for Iran to get nukes is not just willfull ignorance but actually your hope that they will use them to destroy Israel and eliminate this annoyance for you.
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