What I Saw at the Lakers Riots
I don’t know when this peculiar custom began, but it is one I hope — in vain, surely — to see ended someday.
I refer to the bizarre practice of some sporting fans who, on the occasion of their favored team having achieved some triumph on the court, field, or ice rink, choose to celebrate the event by running amok in the streets, looting businesses, breaking windows, tipping over automobiles, and setting fire to garbage cans, cars, and, occasionally, the unfortunate passerby.
Perhaps you were watching on television as the most recent manifestation of this odd ritual took shape on the streets outside the Staples Center in downtown Los Angeles Thursday evening, just after the Lakers defeated the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship. It was my misfortune to have a far more intimate experience of the proceedings than was offered on television.
As the game neared its end and a Laker victory seemed imminent, you might have assumed that the Los Angeles Police Department, having weathered this exact scenario only a year ago, would have been fully prepared to quell any destructively boisterous behavior and avoid a repeat of last year’s embarrassment. And for a brief while at the game’s conclusion such an assumption might have appeared correct. Though most of the crowd inside the Staples Center remained in their seats for some time after the game so as to witness the presentation of the championship trophy, the clientele of the nearby restaurants and taverns, having fortified themselves for their post-game exertions, soon spilled out onto the streets. For many of these people, the Laker victory was merely the second reason for celebration that day: they had already been inspired to new heights of exuberance by Mexico’s win over France in the day’s World Cup soccer action. Indeed, Mexican flags were much in evidence among the revelers.
But what these celebrants encountered once out in the fresh air, no doubt to their great disappointment, was phalanx upon phalanx of helmeted LAPD officers stretching in every direction. There are few sights more demoralizing to the aspiring rioter than that of a few hundred cops ready and eager to have a good whack at you at your first toss of a brick.
And so it was that for those first few minutes after the game the atmosphere on the streets was one of jubilation, not destruction. But what those aspiring rioters soon discovered, as they ventured out from the immediate area of the Staples Center, was that those phalanxes of police officers that had at first glance seemed to stretch for miles, in truth extended only for a block or two, or perhaps three depending on which route they took. And beyond that suffocatingly secure perimeter: blissful freedom, with abundant supplies of large windows just begging to be shattered and a wide assortment of other property at their disposal to be stolen, broken, marked with graffiti, or set ablaze to suit their whims.
Here’s an idea: Put every cop and magistrate in LA on duty, and let the overtime be paid for by fines ($1000, maybe?) on each person arrested. And then proceed to arrest the rioters by the thousands. Use the Staples Center as a holding center, if need be (nice bit of irony that would be). Oh, and then deport everyone arrested that is in the country illegally.
NOW YOUR TALKING! MAN, THINK OF THE LONG TERM SAVINGS TO THE TAX PAYERS IF WE DID IT THIS WAY!
Thank you for your service, and the on-scene report, Sir.
Here in Southeastern Ohio, Halloween in Athens used to be the annual riot. Students from Ohio University, plus local “smart guys”, plus the odd political type (the kind who stand on bridge abutments and yell “Revolution Now!” before starting to throw bricks) made Athens a hellhole for about three nights of burning, looting, etc., every October.
There was a perennial battle between the city administration and the college board of governors, neither of whom wanted to use serious countermeasures for fear of “adversely affecting” the town’s or the school’s PR (i.e., making businesses and parents of potential students at OU think twice about doing business in Athens or sending their kids to OU), the citizens of Athens (who were tired of paying some of the highest property-insurance rates in the state, being beaten up, having their cars trashed, etc.)- and the police and fire departments, who were as always caught in the middle between the needs of the community and the political stance of their superiors.
I don’t know what it’s like now, but back in the Seventies the “Hell Night” every year took in most of the city, all of downtown and the University campus, and averaged 1 or 2 million dollars worth of property damage every year- at 1977 prices.
Today, it’s Ohio State University in Columbus that holds the dubious honor of having some of the worst “sports goons” around, here in the Midwest at least. Every year, when OSU’s football team goes up against Michigan, the result is the same; rioting and vandalism, up to and including arson, notably along North High Street in Columbus. It’s interesting to note that it always happens in Columbus, even if it’s an “away game”.
Exactly who wins doesn’t seem to matter, and probably wouldn’t have mattered around Staples Center, if the Lakers’ “fans” are anything like OSU’s. The “Buckeye” fan(atic)s seem to have only two operational modes; (1) “We won! Let’s tear up the town!” (With a happy grin) and (2) “We LOST! Let’s REALLY tear up the town!” (with a vicious glower).
As for where all this bovine effluent started, as far as I’ve been able to determine it began in the late 1960s and early 1970s, in Europe and South America, with “fans” of that world-favorite game we Yanks are supposedly too “unenlightened” to appreciate the true beauty of; soccer. The terms “football goon” and “football thug” originally came from that source, and it wasn’t the Super Bowl that provoked the first car-be-cues- it was the sacred World Cup. This is something the NPR-listening, latte’-sipping crowd who have spent the last week looking down their noses at everyone else here in the States for our failure to “appreciate” such a superior form of athletic competition should think about.
BTW, I absolutely loathe sports, period. I’d rather be watching old science-fiction movies, which is exactly how I spend every playoff season in every sport, without exception. Ditto the Olympics.
cheers to you, and
clear ether
eon
Eon, you and I were apparently living in Athens, OH at the same time. I don’t recall Halloween riots when I was there (’78-’80), though that was certainly a mob scene. What I do remember was the annual Spring Riot that happened for no apparent reason at the end of Spring Quarter. Thirty years later it is still the stupidest thing I’ve ever experienced. The city would bring in auxiliary cops from all the surrounding towns with the promise of getting to beat on some college kids and fire wooden bullets (called knee-knockers). I remember walking out of the CI to a large crowd milling around waiting for things to begin. Eventually someone would throw a bottle and off we’d go. The police line would start walking down Court Street, firing knee-knockers and clubbing anyone in reach who was dumb enough not to go home. The first year I was there the son of the Indonesian ambassador lost an eye thanks to a knee-knocker fired at point blank range. Apparently Meigs County’s finest would quickly forget to bounce the rounds off the street like they were supposed to and just fire into the crowd. I don’t think they have a Spring Riot anymore, so apparently the students of today are smarter than we were. At least as far as that goes.
I was there for Halloween in ’76 and ’77, when the real free-for-all was beggar’s night (October 29, usually), plus two nights of a capella’ “activity” around the central axis of town down College Street and up over the hill, out Route 33 to the old State Hospital.
The spring “street party” wasn’t as bad as Halloween then. By the time it turned into the primary riot season, I was out of the territory.
BTW, I wasn’t an OU student; as a then-police auxiliary (trainee) called in from out of town, I was on the other side of the line.
I remember the Meigs Co. Sheriff’s contingent screwing up with the baton rounds in ’77, too; they never got the angle right. You bounce it off the pavement no more than four feet in front of your target, to keep it below his crotch. The allowable “strike zone” is between mid-thigh and mid-calf; anywhere higher carries too great a risk of serious injury. Rubber or wooden impact projectiles are called “less-than-lethal” for a reason, and it isn’t because they can be used with impunity.
cheers
eon
Every year they call it the basketball “finals,” but basketball just comes back again! They need to change the name to something that won’t give me false hope.
Feel free to steal that line and get some mileage on it. And, BTW, nothing beats an old Buster Crabbe movie serial!
These idiot riots won’t stop permanently until the PD has shoot on sight orders, announced three days in advance. Anyone on the streets in a group of more than two gets shot.
In the late 80′s early 90′s Chief Gates (Rest his soul!!) said, “There is not a problem in this city I cannot solve as long as I have enough jails!” HE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THIS STATEMENT ABOUT THESE RIOTS-JAILS, GAS, AND FOAM BATONS!
The violence and destruction is directly related to how Americans live vicariously through sports and television. Males are feminized constantly so watching sports allows them to be men for a few hours a week. Now women now enjoy watching sports as much as men so I guess they are being masculated, my sister and girlfriend are big Red Sox fans and watch more games than me. As long as there are sports to allow the people of America to identify with their teams and redefine their own sorry state of affairs to to some guys wearing nice costumes hitting and trowing balls around, then there will be no real thinking. Stop and figure why the winning team has the riots not the loosing team. The winning team is so exited because some guy threw a ball through a hoop that they can not contain themselves, finally they have won. What they think they really won, I have no clue and neither do they but they won something and it is time to celebrate that victory by destroying everything they see. It is a truely pathetic sight of what our country has become. Bread and circus’ for the people! God forbid people actually based their self worth on who and what they are rather than be a Sox fan. James
“I hope the Lakers lose every game next year.”
So do I. Then we will all see the other side to Faker fans, namely the fact that they’re nothing more than a bunch of celebrity-worshiping fair weather fans.
I WOULD “PRAY” THIS EVERY YEAR DURING BASKET BALL SEASON!
Seems like the hard way of doing things, to have all those cops on overtime rushing around to protect stuff. Why not just announce that looters and rioters will be summarily shot, no questions asked? That persons wandering in the downtown area, post-game, will be assumed to be intent upon looting and rioting? And that police escorts will be available –for a fee?
Only half kidding.
Let the shop owners shoot them.
the shop owners cannot get gun permits in LA – only the politicians and actors
Yup,
The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia really knows how to screw with the DECENT people. but L.A. is in a class of its own. During the Major Power-outs LA went crazy but a similar situation in New York resulted in the people banding together.
But history has shown that Decent Folk sometimes take action – Witness the Voters TWICE voting to keep Marriage sacred and not same sex – Propostion 8. Then there was the famous outlawing of “Assualt Rifles” with had a MASSIVE Civil Disobedience by the Citizens of CA.
Maybe its just the Big Cities that are the problem? Nuke (or Fire and Brimstone) San Fran and LA perhaps? Sodom AND Gomorrah indeed.
You know Sadsack, you have a point-I wished we could get all the people in NON-urban areas to ban together like they did on Prop 8 and other matters, and take a stand on some of this madness in CA.
I belive “civilized urban areas of ‘culture” are the problem-In my small town I can leave a gun on my unlocked trcuk and walk away knowing it will be on that seat when I return. Rual people say “hello” and “excuse me” to total stangers. When someone say’s they live in some urban area-I just assume they are a “A.H.” until they prove otherwise. I see this in Dallas and Austin alot. I get this whole “I live in the City and I am somebody” attitude. Being from Los Angeles-I can dish it right back. I avoid those toliets at all cost like I now avoid Los Angeles- I find rural people are alot less hassel
Sadsack,
Thanks for taking an interesting blog and making it ridiculous. Move to Arizona, please.
They don’t need a permit. Read Penal Code section 12026 and People v. Marotta. That case says: “A taxicab driver who, without a license, carried a loaded pistol on the floorboard of his taxicab for protection while operating the taxicab could not be convicted of violating Pen C § 12025 (making it a misdemeanor for a person to carry a pistol concealed within any vehicle or upon his person without a license), or Pen C § 12031 (making it a misdemeanor for a person to carry a loaded firearm on his person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street), since Pen C §§ 12026 and 12031, subd. (h), contain “place of business” exceptions, permitting a person to keep a pistol or a loaded firearm within such person’s place of business. In any ordinary sense defendant’s taxicab was as much a place of business as a store in a fixed location. Although the general purpose of the Weapons Control Law (Pen C § 12000 et seq.) is to control the threat to public safety in the indiscriminate possession and carrying about of concealed and loaded weapons, the express exception, to allow business persons to protect their property, must also be given effect. The legislative purpose which allows business people to possess weapons to protect their property is as important to taxicab operators as it is to business persons in fixed geographic locations, and the possible danger to the public posed by cab drivers with guns is no more grave than that posed by armed retail store operators. Furthermore, if defendant were held to be criminally responsible, significant issues as to the unconstitutionality of the statutes for vagueness and uncertainty would arise.”
The expression for what happens is, “running wild” something that certain people do when the mood of the moment strikes everyone at the same time.
Emotions run high and like a manic depresssive their mood goes manic.
Police also need to use their night sticks, tear gas, and other non-lethal (and sometimes lethal)weapons.
LAPD is so emasculated by political correctness that they are ineffective in maintaining law & order and crowd control. I’ll never go any place in Los Angeles where a big crowd assembles because the mayor, city council, and police hierarchy are such bumblers. Disrupters know that all they need to do is cry “Police brutality” to get media atttention and a big dollar pay-off.
Los Angeles is a third-world country run by PC politicans who have more sympathy for illegal immigrants & law breakers than they have for law-abiding citizens.
You’ve got that right. I was with the Cali National Guard during the Rodney King Riot. The stories I could tell… The poiiticians dithered. The cops command structure was paralyzed. The rank and file cops were hunkered down in their station houses either too cowed or too disgusted to do anything. I could not blame them. Anything they did would have either gotten them jailed or killed. The Korean mom & pop store owners closed the sliding iron gates and went up on the roof with pistols, rifles and shotguns. They did not hesitate to shoot either. Their local radio station would air pleas for help and those who were not under siege would send what help they could. After things calmed down a bit Koreans (or I should say MIGHTY FINE AMERICANS!) brought us food, water and offered us hollow point ammo(sarge, said no.
. Badasses? Oh yes! I don’t know how many people they shot. When we hit the streets the cops manned up bigtime and started kicking ass. They were glad to see us and treated us like family. By then the public had had enough and would have never convicted any cop of anything. Things calmed down within 48 hours of so.
You are absolutely right! I don’t understand why the LAPD did not go after rioters and looters. The Command Staff of LAPD was scared to make any decisions where it might lead to statements like “Police Brutality” because they wanted to be politically correct.
I heard the Taxi driver received a donation, $10000, but the damage has already been done. Police Officers are given the responsibility to stop criminals, and if they don’t act upon their duties after observing a criminal activity being unfold, then that in itself is a crime.
The Chief and the Command Staff probably thought having overwhelming Police Officers with their helmet, in an organized scrimmage line, may deter the hooligans. But the only plan they had was to video record the criminal activity. Last time I checked, it was the police officers’ duty to effectively arrest those who have no regards for other people lives and property. It was to protect peoples freedom, not to protect the Hooligan’s freedom.
-Art
Couldn’t happen to a better city. Riot on, Mexicans – this land is your land.
LMAO Karl!! I don’t know why I get so bent out of shape when I see this-maybe it is becuase I know many of my dear friends have to suffer along with this insanity! I often wonder “why do I care?”-the only reason I come up with is “becuase decent people are hurting and suffering-and that pisses me off”. Karl, I could not help but notice all the red-white-and green flags “out and about” in all the photos and video footage being shown. I guess this was also a “political statement” as well as a “victory riot”
This is one reason sports teams are losing revenue–the thinly veiled “thugs is cool” culture.
I don’t now why this happens in some cities and not in others. I live in San Antonio, and our Spurs have won several championships in the last decade. People turn out to celebrate in the streets and for the parade on the river that we always hold for the team.
But there are no riots, fights or vandalism. The police are out and about, but not in groups, wearing riot gear–there’s no need for that here. And this is in Texas, a supposedly primitive, unenlightened backwater. Somehow we swaggering cowboys know how to act civilized while our “betters” in other regions don’t. BTW, San Antonio is over 50% Latino.
San Antonio is a big party town. We hold a huge city-wide Fiesta every spring, and need little excuse to hold other fiestas throughout the year. Maybe since we are accustomed to large frequent celebrations, we know how to party in public without getting out of hand. Texans are all about getting stuff done and having fun. Any behavior that gets in the way of that is looked down upon.
Because in Texas you respect law and order, and in CA we respect political correctness.
Part of it also is whether or not the rioters are afraid of getting caught. New York City really hasn’t had any post-championship rioting going back to the Rangers’ 1994 Stanley Cup victory and going through the titles by the Yankees and Giants over the past 16 years, because once Rudy Giuliani took office, the types who would be inclined to use a championship as an excuse to recreate the 1977 Bushwick riots are afraid they’re going to be either arrested and/or get knocked around by the NYPD if they try anything. And of all the things Michael Bloomberg has done wrong, he’s been smart enough to continue to allow police to maintain control by maintain his support for them.
In the cities where the riots do occur, what you usually find is that the police either don’t have the support of the politicians, or enough key politicians are willing to demagogue against the police to the point that the rioters know they can play the ‘police brutality’ card and have someone down at City Hall or in the Municipal Building willing to back them up on it for political gain. Despite having New York’s ex-chief for several years, LAPD still doesn’t have the full support of the city’s key politicians (admittedly due in part to some of the department’s self-created past problems), and that emboldens the rioters. Sustain a crackdown on everyday crime and get the local pols to back it, and then next time a Los Angeles team wins a title, the ones itching to stir things up will think twice before going crazy because of the higher risk of both getting caught and not being able to play the victim card to the politicians and the local media.
Oh, yes… and civility in San Antonio is supported by the right of Texans to carry concealed weapons. The right of your person and private property to be protected is THE LAW in Texas. It used to be that way in all of America.
“Indeed, Mexican flags were much in evidence among the revelers.” WTF? If the Mexicans are to blame for the Lakers riot, well then they’re all-American huh? The Lakers are not hipster among Mexicans. And why didn’t they riot after the Mexico win?
Trust me, there was a hyper “attitude” coursing through the Mexican community in L.A. after that win by Mexico. It wouldn’t have taken much to set it off into something more destructive.
Actually, what is completely devoid in every one of these riot “write-ups”, is a frank discussion of “who” was running around, inebriated, yelling, doing burnouts in the middle of the street, throwing bottles, and waving (*yes) Mexican flags. Not just on Figueroa St., but on Olympic, Blaine, etc, were gangs of illegal Mexicans that were not at the bars, but merely live in the decrepit lodgings run down from years of neglect, criminality, etc. I have rarely feared for my life but had the misfortune of parking three blocks away from the Staples Center, and immediately after the game went to my car only to be taunted by 12 Mexican youths. Were it not for the riot police one block away I probably would have watched them destroy my rental car. As I pulled out I narrowly missed the window of where dozens of these idiots began pushing on cars and tipping them over.
The more LA continues to ignore exactly *who* these fans are, the more your welfare state will continue to rot away the core and energy of what your forefathers built a generation ago. The illegal, hispanic population is a plague on the rule of law, and society in general. They have no respect for civilization and the cavalier attitude at which they turn their nose on American property, American families, and general order, is disgusting. Mr. Jack Dunphy: I was there: These were not Lakers fans jumping out of bars. These were Mexicans. Call it what it is.
They are animals, running rampant, burning public areas down, painting graffiti on city walls, throwing bottles, breaking and jumping on cars, doing burnouts, taunting non-Hispanics.
If it wasn’t a movie I wouldn’t believe it, but my eyes were not lying to me. A mandatory curfew should have been placed on the city but alas, your state is in decline, and Thursday night was merely a manifestation of the PC culture you have embedded around discussing what is really happening. No amount of “police force blockades” can prevent the 100k or so violent Latinos that are destroying your city.
Imagine if you had a terrorist attack or a natural disaster; your “citizens” would make New Orleans look like paradise. All it took was an NBA game to reveal the barbaric nature of what you have allowed into the city. Meanwhile, your politicians issue “decrees” against Arizona, etc to score political points. As Mexico implodes, with 14k people killed in drug violence in the last 3 years, we wonder why their relatives would burn one of our greatest cities.
Societies die by suicide. LA is dying.
Your comment conforms with what I heard from local reporters, E3. A KFI audio reporter who was there at the time said that the barricades were set up to protect and funnel the families and other participants, who were exiting the stadium, to their parking areas. The hooligans were arriving TO the stadium as the game ended. That is my understanding, anyway.
In my opinion you are exactly right. Lots of good hispanics though. Within one generation much of their youth gets corrupted by the rot. It’s just sad. It would be nice if one day something horrible enough to allow us to put things right.
Officer Jack Dunphy,
Down Here in Brazil there are several riots like this across the country on a monthly basis. They happen in the wake of soccer games which take place throughout the year. Reasonable people already know they´d better stay home on such occasions lest they go to the Hospital (or to the morgue, yes!) instead of back home safe and sound.
All the Police can do Down Here is reduce the mayhem and lower the final score of injured (and dead) people.
Two years ago (in Curitiba-PR) an officer (and acquaintance of mine) lost an eye (yes, his right eye ball) which was hit by a stone. The SOB who cast the stone was never identified; the unfortunate officer is on a (meager) pension now (and single-eyed).
Said violence on many occasions breaks loose inside the stadium, with increased risks to everybody in there. And the riots are sure to happen, for whatever motive. For the peaceful population, and the Police, it is a lose-lose situation.
I hope not a single officer in the LAPD has been injured last Thursday evening. God bless them all.
WTF?
Rioting on *winning*?!?
Compare this sports insanity to…
Blacks rioted in Watts back in the day because of frustrations that found a self-destructive outlet — they did NOT riot 40 years later when Obama *won* the election.
Again, WTF?
Had Obama lost the election I fear the ensuing riots would have been monumental. What would Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have done besides declare all of America, “racist”?
Seems reasonable to me…
“I hope the Lakers lose every game next year.”
The Lakers didn’t break the law did they? So why punish them? And the police didn’t do their job, again. So why should we their employers support the LAPD? Don’t blame the team, and don’t blame the fans. There really shouldn’t be ANY confusion here, Jack. Your leadership failed, and the the Lakers (and their fans) are to blame?
Please tell me that you really understood Dunphy’s comment and that yours is meant as a joke. Please.
JR, He said Mexico had just won.
The guy in the Lamborghini flunked the IQ test. I have two friends, both doctors, who live in a wealthy Maryland suburb of DC. They each have two cars, a nice car for driving around the suburbs and a dented, beat-up rattletrap for driving into DC to work. How difficult is it to figure out ?
What time was the Mexico/France game? No clue? It had ended that morning! No the end did not coincide, and I insist, if the evil Hispanics were the ones leading this, why didn’t they riot after that game instead of later that night?
Yes, because the answer to having your stuff get torched is to not have nice stuff. It’s your fault really, for having so much to lose. In no way shape or form should the people destroying stuff be held accountable.
/sarc
If someone had, say, jumped on my Alfa 2600, I would have shot him. Period.
Since my first comment was pulled, as have many others, for pointing out the obvious: The rioters were 99% Mexicans, most likely all illegal immigrants. I was there. Call it was it was. Waving Mexican flags after their world cup victory and yelling in Spanish. On the streets of Olympic and Blaine, where much of the violence was, you had idiot Latinos pouring into the streets, waving Mexican (not American or Laker) flags, taunting police, throwing bottles, burning public property, defacing buildings, doing burnouts in the streets, yelling obscenities, shakings cars. This is not something I saw on TV; this was my own personal experience, as I had parked my car three blocks away from the Staples Center, where gangs of Latinos huddled on the corners and taunted riot police.
Welcome to the new America; where PC politicians invite in illegals, and thin-skinned anonymous op-ed writers like Mr. Jack Dunphy censor non-offensive comments about what actually went on. You should have ordered a curfew on the city after last year; you would have saved the city, the officers, and the citizens from dangerous illegals that run around like rats in your liberal paradise.
All it took was an NBA game to expose what is a disaster of a civil project.
How pathetically sad it all is. When I was a kid, California was America’s dream. Now it’s America’s nightmare. That Cal is a ear-deafeningly loud cautionary tale about what happens when liberal pols and judges meet unfettered third world immigration is undeniable. The fact that this is deliberately ignored by pols of both parties back in DC is just as undeniable. Of the 535 plus 9 plus 1 at the top of the Federal government, there aren’t more than a dozen who’s hand I’d shake. There are, however, several hundred of them who should be tried for treason, convicted, and shot.
Liberal ignorance and stupidity is destroying the United States, and the destruction becomes more obvious with every passing day.
America — once a year, game seven, downtown LA, come-from-behind win — a crowd shows the glowing embers of hooliganism for few hours. The horror!
Europe — year long, every game, any town, any result — hooligan crowds dominate making every match a potential powder keg wanting to be set off. The norm.
I’ll take the horror over the norm any day.
This post inspired me to pull a favorite book off the shelf – “Among th Thugs” by Bill Buford. In Hunter Thompson-esque style, he moves among the soccer hooligans of England, Germany and Italy capturing an unnerving snapshot into a lifestyle that simply does not exist in the States. A good read and it puts flash points like downtown Los Angeles into context.
Yo.
Sounds like the crowd needs “a whiff of the grape.” That would pretty much guarantee good behavior for at lest a generation.
Bottom line is howevr that in LA the PC / socialist mindset has long since trumped property rights. The reality on the ground is that rioters pretty much have the RIGHT to do as they wish.
The hospital I was born at is less than one mile from Staples Center. My LA roots go back over a century. But since I really don’t want to have to use lethal force against rioters someday I moved to Nevada eleven years ago.
Oh well, at least you got a championship out of it. Vancouver fans riot when their team loses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Stanley_Cup_riot
This is my third time trying to get a comment through: I am tired of writing three paragraphs only because the “monitor” cannot take the message. Here goes: I was there, and narrowly avoided being brutalized as I got into my car on Olympic and Blaine st., blocks from the Staples Center. It was 100% Mexicans/Latinos, who were doing burnouts in their cars, throwing bottles against walls, yelling, jumping on other cars, flipping anything and everything over, taunting riot police, waving Mexican flags, and in general, acting like animals. Nowhere in Mr. Jack Dunphry’s article does he speak of this brutality forced against American civilization. These were not normal Americans leaving the bars around the Staples center; they were illegals, probably many with criminal records.
Call it was it was, and stop being PC.
LA burns not because of some mismanaged crowd control; it burns because you’ve brought a 3rd World country into your backyard, and they have no respect for the rule of law or for American civilization. Unlike many of the other commenters, I am not drawing for something I saw on TV. I saw it in person, and it was horribly frightening. It could have been much worse were it not for the police.
LA is in decay because of its asinine welfare state that incentivizes illegals to enter and take advantage of the handouts politicians grab for them from the law-abiding, working public. It took only another NBA game to reveal who the animals are.
Dude all your comments made it through, relax
E3 , you called it. Futher proof that “An addition of Mexicans and Muslims to a Nation is a subtraction in civilization.” “Any Nation accepting “Assmilation Refusal” as politically correct will eventually no longer be its own Nation.”
American Christian Infidel
Michael Canzano
Perhaps the best way to stop this nonsense is to suspend the team from play the following year after their hometown fans do this. Also make the team, players and owners, financially responsible for all loses incurred from any rioting. Just like we hold BP responsible for a well blowout.
While this is not my preferred approach.. I prefer the suggestion @ 1 above. However we lack the will to do the “shoot the rioters ” unfortunately.
“I don’t now why this happens in some cities and not in others. ”
It also happened in liberal Montreal where Goat heads and satanic worship have replaced many of the old throngs going to church. I’m not surprised about violence (to things or people – at a whim,) in such areas
It was readily apparent to those of us manning the skirmish lines that the situation called for breaking down the mobile field forces into smaller, more nimble squads…
A good metaphor for why Capitalism works and Socialism fails.
Similar to stace, I’ll point out that in the 1990s when the Houston Rockets won the NBA finals, fans took to the streets to celebrate but there did not seem to be any rioting, looting or vandalizing. There also did not seem to be phalanxes of police needed to keep riots from erupting. I guess we unsophisticated bumpkins just don’t understand how to behave and ought to pay more attention when our sophisticated California betters instruct us on our many faults.
No Mark, Texans have more respect for the laws of a “civilized society”-THOSE LAKER FANS ARE SAVAGES! Again, one more reason why I fled the Peoples Republic of California for the Lone Star State! If Los Angeles wants to REALLY get even with Arizona over their immigration law-move the Lakers to Phoniex and have them win the title 4 years in a row with riots 4 years in a row! That will teach those carzies in Arizona!
Since we don’t ( thankfully ) have a football team here in L. A. the weakminded are limited in how many riots they can attend each year. This year the Lakers gave them a reason to let off all that pent up ignorance. We should be applauding the rioting, it is a natural way for the ignorant to release energy.
Mark in Texas & stace -
Could the difference between San Antonio & Houston, where post-win celebrations did not turn into riots, and LA (and elsewhere) where they do, have something to do with the fact that the rioter is far more likely to find ordinary citizens, shopkeepers, and the like is armed in the former, and disarmed in the latter?
I am reminded of the statement that an armed society is a polite society.
-TS
Let’s not forget the Texas Department of Public Safety! Since I got to this state I have seen some DMAN BIG Texas state troopers-these guys look like they were grown in some lab then when full size-put into a uniform. They are very-NO BS! I have seen this first hand in some of their dealings-they video EVERYTHING-so whan some bone head gets lumped up-they cannot say “the trooper over reacted”-not to mention, Texans are very “law and order” minded and armed as you have pointed out
#11- Bravo. Great contrast.
This was mostly a gang related thing, as usual. California is done.
Rioters.
Will.
Be.
Shot.
On.
Sight.
Problem solved. Your welcome.
Bravo – right on the money.
This reminds me of growing up in 1968 Chicago, when the race riots
broke out, brought on by the assassination of Martin Luther King.
While Detroit, Washington D.C. and Los Angeles (some things never
change) burned, Mayor Richard Daley (original version) publicly
issued ‘shoot to kill’ orders on any rioter dumb enough to take on the
Chicago Police. Magically, nothing happened. Who would have thought?
On the principle that the Gulf oil spill shows that we must stop offshore drilling, this presumably means we must ban professional sports.
Small foot-mounted squads of 6 or 8 men with a well-trained commander distributed about the area seems like a better organization. Keep them within a block of each other so they can reinforce each other if it gets ugly. They should be radio-dispatched, but constantly observing and free to move within their assigned area and react on their own initiative when they witness something. Nip the trouble-makers in the bud and leave them face-down and zip-tied hand and foot for the mounted units to pick up. Take out the trash.
I do like the idea of mass deportations. Have police arrest EVERYone who is on the street without a car, and if they don’t have paperwork right then and there, ship them back to Mexico that very night. Let them burn down Tiajuana, and tip over Mexican Lamborghini’s.
LAPD could hire the fleet of limo’s that customarily come out for the Oscar ceremonies to make sure the illegal rioters get back home to MeHiKo safe and comfy.
That may be a little too extreme. But if the LAPD announced ahead of time that if anyone arrested for participating in a riot was found to be in this country illegally they would be turned over to the Feds, it would probably go a long ways towards providing a deterrent against this kind of incident.
Of course they’d never do it. Better to have property destroyed and citizens injured than to appear politically incorrect in LA.
The Feds have already stated they will refuse to do their jobs and deport any illegals caught in Arizona. Why would they do it any more in California?
Here’s the solution: strict liability for the home team. They should be held strictly liabile for any damage, any violence that occurs following a game. Every window broken, every car vandalized, everything – send the bill to Lakers management. And be sure to order the very best of replacements. They should also pay for all police protection, including any police officer – e.g., the Chief of police – who is sitting by a phone. And again, they should pay top dollar for that.
This way the Lakers would need to step up – really step up – to try to get their fans under control. And their sane fans, who would be paying higher ticket prices, would help to ostracize the insane ones.
Oh, and work with Immigration to conduct sweeps around the Staples Center. Deport forthwith anyone caught without papers. Buh-bye! Make the Staples Center the place not to be if you’re illegal.
strict liability for the home team. They should be held strictly liabile for any damage, any violence that occurs following a game. Every window broken, every car vandalized, everything –
After all I’ve taught you, you still don’t get it, do you. It’s not the Lakers that busted up LA. If you want to punish them, you should try it yourself, if you think you’re man enough. Yes, you have your own apartment now, but do you have enough insurance to deal with the consequences of your acts? I don’t think so.
So you want someone else to collectively punish a group that didn’t commit the crime. Your next chore, before we send any more allowance checks, is to define ‘accountability’ and provide some pertinent examples. And include a moral appraisal of ‘collective punishment’ while you’re at it.
Love, and good luck,
Mom
Strict liability would have a self regulating effect on sports teams. I am assuming that there is no PR campaign that would persuade thuggish fans to behave less thuggishly however the financial obligations of paying for riot damage in the aftermath of championship wins would cause the team owners to sell their most valuable players to raise cash. Repeated rioting would cause the Lakers to become the Chicago Cubs of Basketball. Nobody riots when the Cubs lose.
Cities who’s teams have civilized fans, not having to pay for riot damage, would eventually accumulate the most talented players and become the homes of the consistent championship teams.
To those blaming the L.A. riots on Mexicans, the folks engaging in our peaceful San Antonio street celebrations for the Spurs wins are well over 50% Latinos, probably more like 75%
A lot of you people in CA just don’t know how to behave, with no offense intended towards the many who do. Other places are just more civilized.
Stace, you only had 10 fans show up out of 15 total Spurs fans. So your point is?
Your little joke about the Spurs fans is real funny. We fans in San Antonio, like the Spurs players, are well-behaved because we were brought up right, not because there are riot police present to tone us down. It’s not really about race, it’s about upbringing.
You can carry guns legally here, but we don’t need to. Our neighbors are not thugs.
Stace, I don’t think people are blaming ‘Mexicans” for these riots so much as they are blaming Illegals. How many of the 50-75% of the Latinos you say attend the Spurs celebrations are illegal aliens compared to legal aliens or residents?
Right on Jack! I Saw that same Assistant Chief, Mike Moore, running with the look of sheer fright on his face. He looked like chicken little yelling “the sky is falling, the sky is falling, run for your lives!” That guy is a complete and utter coward and looser. There’s not a leadership bone in his entire body. Good job on the front line, and as usual the “brains” of this department are as dumb as a stump.
The post reminded me of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Mardi_Gras_Riots
I remember at the time wondering why is a “sophisticated” city like Seattle is prone to riots while my “backwards” city in Texas can have hundreds of thousands of people partying downtown every year without major incidents?
There does seem to be a pattern of the more leftist areas being more prone to uncivilized behavior in public. No surprise–compare the police record of tea party rallies to that of leftist protests.
That particular riot also featured the scene of the police ordered to stand and watch while a young man get beaten to death. He was doing the job we pay the police to do–help a young woman who was being beaten by gangbangers. I am still angry at that at both the police and the then-current chief of police (Kerlikowske, who is now the Drug Czar) for that. The police chief for allowing it to happen and the rank and file police for standing there and watching it.
However, it is a good object lesson regarding how much protection one can expect from the police and how the police will behave when given their orders by the politicians.
I don’t know why so many refuse to acknowledge what needs to be done.
Drop a few of these punks with shots to the head from sniper fire, and watch the next year how mannerly people can become after championships.
If we had any guts anymore and men still acted like men, little old ladies without escort would be safe on the street any time of day.
Well, once again we observe the law of reality: too many a-holes, not enough cops. If, instead of riot control tac squads, which means dense formations covering small areas, we had roof top sniper teams covering a multitude of streets shooting looters and vandals on sight, I suspect the crowd dynamics would have changed immediately. I suspect after fifty or so dead looters in the streets, the next year’s celebrations would be oh so peaceful. But I suppose that would require fewer tort lawyers, more long guns, and different rules of engagement. Oh, it would also require excluding the estates of looters and vandals from suing for their “wrongful death” while doing acts of brigandage. Lacking those attitude changes in the face of a reality where there are no consequences for bad behavior, next year’s celebrations should be just as exciting.
What’s the problem? You have a lawyer infested, academic entitled, welfarized saftey state that has infantilized male behavior. The schools, the taxes, the enviromenalists, the rules, regs, codes, permits have produced a non manufacturing, non building, paper pushing financial bankster state that depends on imported goods, imported money, imported peon labor. Naturally, you get more.
Embrace the future.
By the way, why isn’t the bill presented to the NBA, the stadium. No game, no crowd.
don – I made that suggestion once as a solution for the gang problems endemic to los angeles (which does not deserve capitalization). At any rate, the problem isn’t the police tactics, which were probably executed as well as they could be considering the amount of manpower available to cover such a huge area and number of people. In truth, the National Guard should have been deployed, as the authorities should have known quite well what was going to happen. The problem is the culture nurtured by the pc idiots that populate the region, plain and simple. If that doesn’t change, expect more of the same, while the promulgators of the cultural issue live safely in their gated communities protected by private security… And they talk about egalitarianism. Pah! What arrogant, elitist, dangerous hypocrites.
Beat LA!
All I’ve got to say is “Nika”.
Yes, this story has been told many times.
LaPD needs to get a few patty wagon and teach these fools a lesson
Hey, maybe we can get Smith to offer his opinion on this thread too? Perhaps he can suggest that the rioting was only a minor infraction and the LAPD should have simply looked the other way, since it caused way too many problems trying to enforce a law people think is stupid?
Heeeeeree smith, smith, smith! Come here little buddy!
Come here, boy!
Let’s see if the towering intellect will take the bait again.
OK, OK, I’ll bite. I know you both feel let down by your humiliation in the last go round.
Maybe a video will surface that will show it all started with a jaywalking ticket to that night’s Rodney King.
Until then, (and with a caveat that rioting is bad and needs to be punished), how about this: (bear with me–you may have to read a few sentences): when I was in college, there was a suspected, observed but never statistically correlated view that high school seniors from religious high schools often went crazier in college than a lot of public school grads. The theory was that the religious school types had been suppressed and disiplined so much for relatively minor infractions, they simply flipped out in college. That was often good for the guys, especially since the girls wanted nothing to do with authoritarian guys called bubblehead or the “great.” Anyway, true or false, its the premise for my thought today!
I believe LA gives out more jaywalking tickets than any other city (in accord with the politically correct and driver and pedestrian neutered policy of that city.) LA loves LAPD officers, but LAPD management is very in tune with mark(“Who says “tazer” is spelled “taser”?)thegreat’s “papers pleese?” idea of the world: while light is red, every pedestrian is supposed to wait at the the curb, even tho the nearest car driven by Ms Daisy at 20 mph is miles away. The Ped is supposed to wait sheep like for the green light.
In New York, however, where peds cross when its clear no matter what the light, gives out about 10% of the LA number, and has no riots like LA. They are rarely ticketed by the cops there.
So: (1) Is it possible that citizens and non-citizens alike in LA become SO USED to defying the law, especially downtown, by constant jaywalking, that they get-as Bubblehead has put it–used defying other laws? Contemptuous of the law and the police force that annoys them so? Hence they are more likely to riot and burn Bubbleheads Bugati?
(2), Do LA pedestrians get so fed up with police harassment (or contemptuous of police that seem to have endless funds to ticket jaywalkers and speeders like a kid popping tic tacs, not to mention revenue-raising red light cameras, all while the city is 200 million in the hole), that they explode every so often?
Examples: in 1992, in 1965 the May Day riots, and at the end of every Laker season? You can ditch the idea that the Laker’s riots are caused by illegals: there were few illegals in LA in 1965 during the Watts riot, which started due to (what else) a traffic stop, that must have been made by an ancestor of that Seattle cop that would up in a punching match with the Public Enemy No 1, the jaywalker).
Does LA –which has a hyper-enforced approach to minor things like jaywalking–have a populace ready to riot at the drop of a hat?
Does it seethe with resentment against the mindless harassment of tickets for nothing? Sounds like it! The cause of the riots? Too many jaywalking tickets!
There you are.
What humiliation? Again I see you are not seeing reality in which we humiliated you. We were right, you were dead wrong by claiming a police officer who was specifically assigned to prevent jaywalking at a corner that has seen 61 (Count ‘em, 61!) accidents in the last five years should not do his job and would not be held accountable were anyone hurt because he refused to do as he was ordered to do by not only his superiors but by the general public of Seattle, WA.
I would love to see you open your eyes to reality. It must be nice to live in a fantasy world all the time like you.
you can live in that spicolli universe if you want. but we’re talking about los angeles here dude. seattle is yesterday.
Another comment proving you live in a fantasy universe of your own making.
Whether it’s in Seattle or LA or NYC or anywhere else here in the REAL world, the people want the police doing their job and doing it properly. They don’t want the police ignoring violations because moonbats like Smith think the law is pointless. They don’t want the police ignoring the desires of the community because moonbats like Smith believe in their own little minds that cops should only be investigating bank robberies and chasing rapists instead of enforcing all the laws on the books. They want the polce enforcing all the laws, from illgal immigration to murder-one so that we, the law-abiding citizens, can live in our citis and towns without fear, working our jobs and raising our families.
Statistics prove that if you enforce the ‘Nuisance laws’, it has an effect on preventing the major crimes.
…With Giuliani’s election as mayor in 1993, the war on crime dramatically intensified. Together with his police commissioner William Bratton, the mayor completely transformed New York City’s approach to policing: Compstat soon allowed the NYPD to deploy personnel and resources efficiently, and quality-of-life policing became the norm throughout the city. Thanks to the new techniques—a quantum improvement over Mayronne’s early innovations—Times Square’s crime rate dropped to an infinitesimal level. Felonies committed on 42nd Street between Seventh and Eighth—the “worst block in the city”—fell from 2,300 in 1984 to a mere 60 in 1995, prompting a city official to enthuse that “crime has reached such a low level on that block that we don’t keep statistics anymore.” In the entire Midtown South precinct, felony complaints fell 50 percent, from 20,000 in 1992 to 10,000 in 1997. Giuliani and Bratton also sent a powerful message through their public rhetoric that the city would no longer tolerate crime and disorder, heightening New Yorkers’ and tourists’ expectations about safety and soothing the jangling nerves of the business community.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_4_the_unexpected.html
So, Smith, feel free to continue living in your own fantasy world, where cops never enforce jaywalking laws and illegal immigrants are allowed to riot day and night, but I think the majority of the thinking public would rather live in the world with me where police enforce the laws on the books, no matter how they might inconvenience Smith.
Ha! Sure enough! Seattle’s policy is mecilessly attacked in Yelp blogs and other on line sites in comments by very intelligent people. People consider the policy to be ludicrous. Shop owners in Savanah Georgia were also up in arms over “increased enforcement” of sily jaywalking tickets on a very safe strete that were just driving away business. They set up a Facebook petition to overturnn the law. And check out THIS October, 17 2008 article on increased jaywalking tickets in downtown LA, by NBC’s affiliate there: my comments in brackets:
“While LAPD maintains that that fines are handed out for the safety of pedestrians [oh that's good one! Like red light cameras are for safety and not revenue], one has heard arguments from Latino advocates who have accused LAPD of targeting Broadway shoppers based on racial motives[nah. LAPD is not anti-hispanic. But see what this silly policy does? Gets people all worked up for no good reason].
Now, new residents consider the actions of a beefed-up LAPD bike and foot patrol, assigned to be aggressive [aggressive huh?]in handing out jaywalking tickets in the more affluent financial district and the Historic Core, is a way to increase revenue by those who are able to pay the estimated $120 fine.[oh gee, revenue raising again?]
Jaywalking tickets are causing a lot of barking by Downtown residents and workers.”
There you go: jaywalking tickets are the modern day equivalent of the Stamp Act and the Tea Tax. Despite all the protests from our Betters that they are there for our good.
(markthegreat–the Stamp Act…never mind. You can find out what Stamp Act and Tea Tax were by checking a history book (one of those things with pages), or going on wikipedia)(please don’t call anyone at the library an idiot) (…a library is a place with books).
Hey genius, how’s your humiliation coming?
Still haven’t answered any questions from the last thread, wherein you went schizophrenic on us.
What Police Department did you serve in? What is the source of yourvast experience wherein you feel comfortable second-guessing police officers in confrontational situations?
Looking forward to your next humiliatig evasion.
Um, AF_Vet, the issue is police response in LA. I offered a reason some of the people there are so prone to riot at certain times. True, LA has the incessant nagging by the LA Times and police commission that always faults LAPD for whacking a few miscreants like in the last MayDay celebration: this has led LAPD to become extremely cautious in breaking up mobs and large groups. And it probably contributes to the liklihood, in LA, that mobs know LAPD is always going to be second-guessed, and so are far more restrained that they ought to be.
But all large cities have that. It has to be measured against the liklihood that some cops–there are always some–beat up a newsman or innocent pedestrian in the heat of things. So cities opt for more restraint. Good or bad? Not entirely clear, except that it does tend to favor the mobs. But only LA tasks its cops with a large amount of petty enforcement like jaywalking as if its really important. Like the “respect capital” is not wasted as these petty encounters happen year in and out.
I also offered a theory about it: that LAPD is asked to do too many petty tasks, like ticketing jaywalkers and radar patrol. It breeds contempt for the LAPD and I think that is a bad thing, especially when mobs gather. People in LA love the LAPD but they resent petty contacts like jaywalking tickets. Frankly, I don’t think LAPD officers like doing it much either. Its not what the top detectives and better officers want to do. And this contributes to a general contempt for the law: Franklin and Hamilton noted concerns about disrespect for the law arising out of petty things like this.
As for my experience in a PD, you seem (again) to have missed the point of my earlier posts: let me try to answer you again: On the issue of what a cop ought to do, would you listen to a man who was never a cop, and worse, drank and smoked a lot, slept in late, talked and wrote a lot, and was overweight? Of course not: you’ve already judged him as incompetent to have an opinion, since he was never a cop. How about a business lawyer who was never a cop but did some criminal defense cases and once drove his business into bankruptcy? Well, we know you’ll never listen to a lawyer, much less one who was never a cop.
But both Winston Churchill and Lincoln would probably be better on judgment than any cop. Do you understand the answer now? Credentialism like yours is a peculiar affliction of people that have been on a public payroll: like teachers that say Winston Churchill could not teach a history class because he doesn’t have a teaching credential. That US Grant or General McCrystal couldn’t teach leadership or management for the same reason. You of course would have all four of these worthy people stand off the stage so you could listen to a seattle cop that could barely arrest a 17 year old girl. Its too bad you are stuck in that bog, but its characteristic of anyone who was on a public payroll.
Way too late for California
The planners for the Lakers game did not realize
Mexico was playing World Cup soccer at the same time ?!?
Way back in the Day, the LAPD decided (wisely) not to oppose a riot
with insufficient forces; On their way out of the area they disarmed
the storekeepers who had been standing between their stores and the rioters.
Rumor has it that the storekeepers learned their lesson, and quietly stockpiled
weapons for the next time this happened; Crew served weapons, capable of producing
the proverbial ‘Whiff of the Grape’ which Napoleon gave to the Paris mob.
The mobs are learning that they have nothing to fear and that will feed next years mob. Big mistake to let this mindset take effect, you either have law abiding or anarchy and everything that means; the breakdown of civilization. Political correctness is being shown for what it is, the breakdown of authorized authority, what next mob rule?
This is just a symptom of the city in general. I lived in San Antonio when they won their last two championships. Part of my job was monitoring the EMS system for all emergency response calls. The amazing thing was that each year, when the Spurs won, the emergency calls actuall went DOWN! The city would get out in force, cruising the streets and honking their horns. But no one would consider the kind of mindless trashing that goes on in the “major” market cities. Don’t mess with Texas is more than just a slogan. It is the way they live down there. (Might this have a little to do with the fact that Texas is doing a bit better economically than California?)
I was just looking over the videos and trying to find the Mexican flags. There probably was one, but I couldn’t find it. If you have it, post it. And Mexico/France was in the morning, waaaay before this game.
In any case, this is a big deal over nothing. Some 19 vehicles set on fire, and the LAPD has opened up its anti-terrorism hotline to get IDs on everyone who was there, as if most of the morons filming it were responsible. These were just a bunch of moronic kids setting stuff on fire. Give me a break. This is hyperventilating, and I love the I’m scared of hispanics stuff you see on this page, probably thinking, if I hate them so much, they must hate me the same and are going to kick me a** when they get into a big group.
Yes, SUCH an overreaction. Lessee…let’s say they had new Hyundais or a used car at 10,000 dollars. For the average American, that’s a QUARTER OF A YEAR SLAVING AWAY AT A JOB. That’s a Quarter of a Year of someone’s life, up in damn smoke because some worthless piece of trash decides its awesome to set something on fire.
I hope someone sets YOUR car on fire. Or maybe just you.
Agreed. No big deal. It’s all relative, isn’t it? On the other hand 19 dead arsonists is no big deal either. It’s what’s called a “proportionate response”. Shoot the bastards. No fuss, no bother.
Well, “JR” (I love people calling coward from behind fake names!), it’s clear from the photos that the rioters weren’t 100% Hispanic, but there are ample photos of rioters and looters wielding Mexican flags. You can find one on my blog, though I didn’t post it because of the flag — I linked to it because of the look of sheer glee on the offenders’ faces, which is the point, no matter what ersatz political activism thugs attach to their actions.
Not to mention team affiliation — these people weren’t rioting because their team won. They had anticipated rioting long before the final score was called. This is a riot event, not a fan event.
I don’t believe that criminals should be trusted when they claim to stand for anything — pro or anti. They should just be judged on their actions. Everything else is freedom of speech, right?
Still and all, because rioters were waving Mexican flags as they terrorized innocent people and destroyed cars and businesses, it would be nice if La Raza, the L.A. Hispanic legislators’ organizations, and the Mexican consulate denounced the act of waving their national emblem in the name of such criminal acts, wouldn’t it?
Well, “JR” (I love people calling coward from behind fake names!), it’s clear from the photos that the rioters weren’t 100% Hispanic, but there are ample photos of rioters and looters wielding Mexican flags. You can find one on my blog, though I didn’t post it because of the flag — I linked to it because of the look of sheer glee on the offenders’ faces, which is the point, no matter which ersatz political activism thugs attach to their actions.
Not to mention team affiliation — these people weren’t rioting because their team won. They had anticipated rioting long before the final score was called. This is a riot event, not a fan event.
I don’t believe that criminals should be trusted when they claim to stand for anything — pro or anti. They should just be judged on their actions. Everything else is freedom of speech, right?
Still and all, because rioters were waving Mexican flags as they terrorized innocent people and destroyed cars and businesses, it would be nice if La Raza, the L.A. Hispanic legislators’ organizations, and the Mexican consulate denounced the act of waving their national emblem in the name of such criminal acts, wouldn’t it?
“The police radio frequencies soon were filled with reports of looting here and burning…”
Arson and looting should be dealt with by using lethal force against the arsonists and looters.
Shoot them.
The difference between civilized societies and third-world cesspools of violence:
A civilized society doesn’t tolerate gross disregard for the law. Lawbreakers are shot, or hanged, or at the very least beat up and run out of town.
“Civilized” means mutual respect for (and support of) the law. “Civilized” does NOT mean “politically correct and non-violent.”
We are no longer a civilized society. We are a collection of thugs and would-be victims who get by from day to day under a thinly-disguised veil of civility. All it takes is some small and meaningless “triggering event” to bring out the animals to prey on the citizens.
As long as we continue to tolerate it, things will only get worse.
Spot-on.
If you think THAT was bad, you ain’t seen ‘nothin yet!
Just wait til Mehserle gets acquitted.
LA and Oakland will burn for a long, long time…
Way to blame the police for the unpredictable animalistic actions of a bunch of 3rd world immigrants. This is how the 3rd world “rolls”. They’re violent, self-destructive, stupid and irresponsible. That’s why we need to reform our immigration system. We keep letting in millions of these 3rd world mongologoids every single year. And the consequences to our society are beyond predictable. The 3rd world isn’t poor and backwards because of Western imperialism and “social injustice”. The 3rd world is poor and backwards because it’s filled with 3rd world people. And now they’re taking over America and ruining our quality of life.
Hey, somebody had to say it.
Indeed. Thank you.
What is missing from our collective awareness is how fragile our society is. We’ve changed a lot over the past 30 years, and it will take a lot to turn it around.
When people have good jobs, houses, and families – they have “skin in the game”. You want society to succeed – for you and for your future. However, when one becomes completely reliant on the government – and there is no money to pay any fines – who cares if you get arrested? There’s nothing to lose.
If you have your kids with one woman, then move on, and find another one ready for the same – this pattern will repeat? Is that an environment for a kid to grow up in? Families have changed. Kids (20s) are aggressive.
There is a generally accepted view in society that those facing the police are all Rodney Kings standing up to “the man”.
Boatload of trouble.
As a retired veteran police detective who chose to work the streets rather than study while on duty as many of the brass did to work their way up the chain, I get where the author is coming from. Here is the post I did using his article.
http://truthandcommonsense.com/2010/06/20/the-obligatory-post-on-basketball-team-fans-being-urban-black-and-thuggish/
Dunphy is right. You get a bunch of PC driven police bureaucrats together and their egos and turf protectionist attitude will doom any good op. I’ve seen it.
I know I am in the minority for saying this, however: Until some LA ‘fans’ can get it together and not act like sopomoric morons, sports teams that cause this kind of reaction should move from LA to more civilized sectors of the USA. There is a reason LA has not attracted new teams and this is one of them !
Yes, you can bring in a massive police force backed up by National Guard troops and really “crack some heads”, but the underlying problem lies deeper in our society and national psyche. We are violent society. We wage war on nations when we want their resources. Then we expect this state-sponsored criminal violence not to seep back into our society.
In Los Angeles, we have streets clogged with cars. It is a horrific mess. These crowds targeted the cars, not pedestrians. There is an underlying anger and rage towards cars by the masses in Los Angeles. Everyone turns into an idiot behind the wheel. So it is no surprise that riotous crowds attack cars. They are a symbol of hate, intolerance and death.
Downtown LA has seen a redevelopment frenzy in the past few years. The glitzy Ritz Carlton towers over LA Live and the Nokia theater and Staples Center. Expensive condominiums surround the area. Yet three blocks south of this corporate jewel, there is still crushing poverty.
As if the haves built their palaces so they can wave their affluence from their balconies within a stones throw distance from the have nots.
Until we deal with these problems the acts committed by the massive crowds, who are empowered by their numbers at sporting events and other large gatherings, will continue. Fix society first, then you won’t need to blame law enforcement for not stopping the violence.
Right, it’s Society’s fault. All we need is a bit of Social Justice {aka Wealth Redistribution). From the evil White men to the poor Undocumented Immigrants who are only Looking For a Better Life.
You got one thing right: “Fix society first…”. Only, the thing is, people are not created by societies, societies are created by people. And, as Marsh #54 pointed out, third-world people inevitably create third-world societies. And you know what’s attracting all those third-world people? Why, it’s that Social Justice. That’s what’s killing your country. You can not have both a welfare state and open borders. I would have thought that should be obvious even to a leftist.
“BS!” It’s “society”-NO! The Mayor and his “ubber libral” WAY OF PANDORING TO THIS is the Cause-THIS never HAPPEND before. Have you ever seen this in other states when Teams win?? No, the fact is many Laker Fans are freaken “savages”. If The City and The Lakers Management Team were to come together and flat out say, “we will not tollerate violence after the game of any sort and we are going to make arrests and put you in jail” AND “we will not have a parade if riots occure after the game”-then you back it up with action-then these idiots get the idea. Insted of looking at them and saying, “PLEASE STOP THAT” you send “bean bags” down range-these fools get the idea real fast.Poeple act this way becuase they know the Mayor and City of LA will put up with it-nothing more
I am fortunate, as I have never seen a riot after one of our sports teams wins a championship. I live in Cleveland.
I think the solution would be quite simple. Cities which are infested with these colleges can pass an ordinance that the college will be held liable for all damages caused by their students or others “celebrating” a game result. Add a multiple to this for each offense, cumulative over the years, meaning an annual thing would see the rate double the second year then tripled, etc. This money would be taken from the sports budget since it is the sports programs that are responsible for the problems.
This same could be applied to professional sports as well. Damages to property and injury to citizens (but not the actual rioters) would be charged to the club at a substantial multiple, at least 10 times because of the money those clubs rake in. Also they should be charged for all the police presence and overtime. I don’t really understand why cities go all out for these sports venues anyway since most are built at taxpayer expense and the cost is usually never recouped.
I agree with some of the other posters: college “pro” sports should be banned. They suck up a tremendous amount of money that could be going to actual education and keeping the programs, kit and buildings up to date.
I wonder if the Lakers are going to buy that poor cab driver a new cab? Would they have paid for all the police/Fire service and damage by their fans had they lost?
The funny thing is-we all know ‘WHO’ got stuck paying for Michael Jacksons “state” service-THE PEOPLE OF LA! The Lakers Claim they will pay but has anyone ever seen the LA Times do a story if they REALLY DID PAY?
Seems as if the mayor and chief of police were too busy throwing stones at their neighbor, Arizona, to protect their own glass houses.
You know JACK, I was a young P-1 when the “RAIDERS” were in town-I learned to hate LA SPORTTING FANS by dealing with that “Radier gangster trash”. I was gald to the Radiers go back to Oakland-I just wished they took several bus loads of Laker Fans with them.
In my nearly 25 years of service, I came to laoth the Laker finals so damn much, I would walk into the North Hollywood W/C office to see if was being deployed down town. One time I came in and saw my name on the line up to go down town-with under 20 years of service, I looked at the NHWD W/C and said, “if you send me to this BS-I will call in sick and come back with a doctors note! I will come in and handle radio calls-but not go down to this B*** S**T!” He asked if I was joking and I told him I was dead serious-he put some poor P-2 with less tenure in my place-my “loyalty” is to the People of Los Angeles-not to a bunch of “over paid” Basket Ball stars and their “gangster fan club”.
I totally understand the feelings of those who hate to see the Lakers win-our feelings are probably much like those of business people in the area, That Cab Driver who got his cab trashed, and others who have to endure these games and the riots that follow.
@ Tye Marshall, NO KIDDING! You hit it on the head about the Mayor and Chief-The good news if “Texas” is setting up to follow Arizona next year-they made that public Yesterday on “Inside Texas!” I wonder if The Mayor, Chief, and the good people of LA will “stop driving” as to not use Texas Oil?
I saw that COMPLETE FAILURE of an LAPD “leader” Assistant Chief Mike Moore out there, with NO helmet on, like a complete idiot, and in direct violation of department policy. An infraction that you can be sure he would have slammed an Officer for. You have a Sergeant from METRO, wearing ALL his protective gear, who was struck in the face with a piece of concrete thrown from a roof top, and Assistant Chief Mike Moore is helmet-less? I guess that’s why I saw him running away from the crowd at a DEAD SPRINT with a scared PALE look on his face. What a complete COWARD! I hope he was not failing to respond, perhaps to the taxi cab driver, being ripped out of his car, only to be beaten and watch the savages incinerate his car? Lead from the front and wear your protective gear sit back down on the bench you bloviating moron Mike “the swinger” Moore! Seriously, what an embarrassment that goofball Mike Moore is.
LAPD METRO Sergeant getting struck in the face from a piece of concrete thrown at him from a roof top. Also shown in this video is Assistant Chief Mike Moore with no helmet on, walking around the intersection like the Messiah. A short time later, not on this video unfortunately, he is sprinting away like a scared kitty cat. What an embarrassing representative of the LAPD.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=7505505&syndicate=syndicate§ion
I just got this TEXT from a copper “13 buss loads of officers in riot gear heading into down town for laker Parade-cost is approx 1.5 million! TEXT-’LAWINS’ TO 888-7777-TEXT STOP TO STOP” pass it on-LA is broke and they are spening this money while they lay off people!
“Anonymous” Mike Moore is standing in the middle of this like an ass- BEING THE ‘TACTICAL WIZARD” THAT HE IS-there is no excuse for him putting himself in harms way like this. NONE AT ALL! THE IDIOT SHOULD HAVE HAD ON HIS PROTECTIVE GEAR!
As I recall, one of the purposes of the armed militia was to suppress riot and insurrection. Not the organized miltia, which some claim is the National Guard, but the average citizen.
As a veteran of the 1965 Watts Riots, it is clear that the Dept. has learned nothing! In fact, it is even more impaired by PC and liberal college graduated LA cops who are now in leadership positions! One of the things that bothers me and has not been discussed as yet, is the fact that over 60% of the current LAPD is made up of “minorities.” Now, before you jump my tail, let me say that most of the Hispanic cops I worked with from 1958 – 1981, when I retired, were damned good cops. While many of the black cops (not all)seemed to whine a lot about their “rights”, the Hispanic cops were only colored “Blue.” Now it appears that the Hispanic cops on the job outnumber the non-Hispanic cops. Does this matter? I don’t know. Is blood thicker than the law? I don’t know that either. But many of the Hispanic cops now on the job are not vets of the military and don’t have the training and discipline I saw in the “old days” when we were all just “Blue.” The answer to me is, unless and until the police leadership is not under the command of racist and disloyal elected officials and spineless police brass, the game is over! How will the Hispanic cops deal with a mostly Hispanic outlaw population when the BIG CACA hits the fan in LA? I don’t know that either. I would not want to be an Hispanic cop with relatives and friends who are not loyal American citizens. It reminds me why I no longer live in So.Cal. but I still hold the LAPD in great repect for what it was and what it can be.
I made a bet with a friend that if the Lakers won, there would be no more than four deaths in the riot, but over 5 if they lost. The fact that there was a riot with no fatalities is the only real surpise to me.
Los Angeles has indeed become a third-world country, full of slime from South of the Border who have no respect for the law and private property. Why should they, when they get what they want for free, and there are no consequences for their illegal behavior? The L.A.P.D., once feared, is now a laughingstock, handcuffed by political correctness and stupidity.
A few well-placed tear gas grenades and a few tased “fans” might actually teach these creeps a lesson…but no, the City is too busy attacking Arizona to do anything about these thugs.
Will the last sane person please turn out the lights when he leaves California?
Your comment about the inverse relationship to brass and successful tactics is spot on. In another area of the city, not on TV, the tactics being implimented by my P2′s and P3′s easily stopped all “idiots” the very instant they crossed the line. No property lost, no innocents injured, and no “embarassment”. What the brass doesn’t get: When you act decisively, your officers grow more confident, they are LESS likely to over-react, and the “idiots” are less likely to act up….THIS is message you want to send…..Our troops in blue are more than capable of doing the right thing, with the right amount of force and command presence…all we need to do is to believe in them and trust them.
Just use live ammunition and all riots will be over. If doubt, ask Chinese who are in charge of the US economy.
What happened to the LAPD is also an easy one. What’s happening is a leadership issue plain and simple. The leaders who got crime under control, sort of, a while back are gone. I’ll bet also that a lot of the more effective lower level commanders are also gone. Combined with a political leadership that is more about courting the votes of the criminals than supporting the police and law and order, and this is what you get.
Of course they don’t seem to be learning anything because those who had experience with previous major riots are all gone and took that knowledge with them. Their replacements were more political appointments and people who would play ball with the politicians and not make waves. So, a lack of experience, effect anti-riot organization and soft ball tactics contributed to this riots and the worse ones that will come as the economy continues to decline. I really shudder to think what would happen if Arizona cut the power even for a couple of hours because of the political extremism coming from the LA politicians.
Unless of course you “thunk” one of the POS that deserves an attitude adjustment and they’re a minority. Then the next call you will be getting is from Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson or LaRaza and you are looking at a (128) complaint, for civil rights violations. Unless of course it’s a white guy…then you are good to go…However I did not see a hell of a lot of them hanging out for this event (because they are probably at work) so it’s a no win situation.
However if you rightfully “thunk” one of these POS and they happen to be a minority..the next call you will be getting is either from Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson or La Raza for civil rights violation….so it’s a no win situation….unless of course you pepper spray a white guy….then you are good to go.
LA got the level of law enforcement they deserve, no slight intended towards Jack and Edward and the hundreds of other rank and filers caught in the middle. At one time voters there had a chance to make a difference, but those days are gone forever. It is too late to ever improve. The liberals are too deeply entrenched. Shed a tear and move on. These “riots” will only get worse. It is not a “Mexican” issue; it is what happens when an uncultured, uneducated, underpaid, uncivilized, unappreciated, unregistered, unlawful, unthinking, living-under-the-radar mass of individuals who do not “belong” to a society but are still useful to spoiled “employers” who decide to be scofflaws.
I was working crowd control at the laker parade and was witness to a display of modern day savagery at its finest. all the uneducated, unemployed savages of los angeles and wherever other stink hole savages matriculate from, piled into the streets of LA (permitted by the city of course and our #$%^eating self proclaimed “leaders”)…
Here is an idea: this time next year all of us officers bang in sick, let the city burn. Maybe then we will get some RESPECT!
LAPD has forgotten how to properly deploy a Mobile Field Force (MFF) and the way we do it now it is neither Mobile nor in the Field nor is it a Force. We borrowed MFF in 1993 from Metro-Dade PD in Miami; they developed it in the 1980s to deal with “brush-fire” type civil disturbances, the kind that broke out in 1965, 1992, and last week. Traditionally police departments, including LAPD, have dealt with crowd control/riot situations that were fixed and static: think Lakers events, parades, Democratic National Convention, etc. We knew what the event was, where it was going to be, how many were going to show up, times, etc., and planned accordingly (where to place skirmish lines, where to push crowds, etc). It was rigid and fixed.
In the 1992 riots, besides the leadership/command failure (nothing changes), we learned that you can’t pre-plan for this type of riot using traditional (pre-planned) crowd-control tactics, so we adopted MFF which would make the police as mobile and flexible as the rioters. This placed decision making at the squad and platoon level and good MMF leaders could take their 8, 10 or 12 officers and break up a crowd, stop looting, etc., stabilze an area, and move easily and independently within their area to put out “brush fire” rioting, while following strategic guidance from the Incident Commander (i.e., “stay within these reporting districts”).
A great idea that has actually been done and worked, but typical LAPD- we have lost the spirit of MFF and can only now “do” the big, pre-planned events. Most of us do not even know what MFF really is anymore – we call any crowd control deployment “MFF” even when dealing with fixed events. MFF worked because it took the tactical decision making in riots away from the brass who, to be blunt, have no field/tactical/patrol experience or aptitude (brass should only make strategic, not tactical, decisions, anyway), and gave it to the “on scene” officers who could react according to the situation.
This brings us to another failure: LAPD patrol is a dying/lost art and your best MFF people used to come from patrol officers who dealt with the public every day, knew their beats and had street instinct (they could at least tell scared suburbanites fleeing from the Staples Center from real rioters), and who understood the dynamics of the street. Now, patrol is a second-class citizen in LAPD. Anyone want to disagree? Try to promote above Sergeant if you are a patrol cop. We have almost 10,000 officers and we are putting out only 3-4 patrol units on many watches. LAPD is committed to overspecialization (SWAT, counterterrorism, specialized investigations, admin, etc) and everything is they do theoretical until it hits the street. They train, but training is no subsitute for street experience.
Because patrol is the LAPD backwater patrol sergeants are mostly brand new and trying to get out (they just want to finish probation and get the hell out of the field and back to the building where their command staff sponsor will get them a SGT II spot for their “loyalty” and “service” to the career of their sponsor), and if they are tenured they are often fat, worthless, lazy grumpy types who scam the system, hide in the station, disappear when a supervisor request comes out, call in sick, etc.
As a group many of our current SGTs are incapable of providing the leadership/decision making required for MFF- LTs are totally worthless (but that should go without saying). Most are happy to have the micro-managing LAPD brass tell them exactly what to do (and that’s how you stay out of trouble). As you stated earlier, nowadays few in the LAPD above the rank of sergeant is a real cop anymore (very few exceptions to this) and knows how to deal with these situations, and most sergeants now are not up to the task (inexperience, incompetence and a culture that does not develop leaders).
This can only partly explain what happened last week.
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