We Say ‘Never Forget’ — But Do We Really Mean It?
John Dunn, a New York firefighter, expects that when he visits the 9/11 memorial this week on Long Island there will be even fewer people there than the year before. It’s been that way for the past few years — and not just at the memorial, he notes:
On September 11th in general, there’s just fewer and fewer people visiting or calling me, or coming to the ceremonies with me.
John lost several colleagues and friends on September 11, 2001. He and the families of his colleagues were overwhelmed by the comfort and support they received in the aftermath of the tragedy, not just from friends and family but from virtual strangers all over the world who sent handwritten notes of sympathy, including hundreds of schoolchildren who sent drawings.
The world was in mourning with them. The first few anniversaries, the cards and phone calls would pour in. The crowds of people at the memorials and the constant barrage of specials on TV were comforting; all those people were still there for him. But as the years went on, the crowds dwindled. The phone calls were fewer. The ceremonies, memorials, and news specials were few and far between.
And John wonders: Were the survivors of 9/11 — the first responders, the volunteers, the families of the victims — left behind? Did the nation and the world move on without them?
In a way, we have. While the phrase “never forget” has become part of our vernacular, and certainly no one has forgotten the events of 9/11, we may just have forgotten those it affected most. I wrote last year about the big sign in the local mall that says “Never Forget.” I know what they meant by that. They want us to remember the terror. They want us to stay ever-vigilant, because that could happen again. They want us to remember who our enemies are. They want us to remember the fire, the smoke, the downed plane, the falling bodies.
As if we could forget.
Maybe we should take that admonition of “never forget” a different way. Maybe, on this September 11, after we pay homage to those who died we can remember those who lived. There are so many people who were, and still remain, deeply affected by the events of September 11, 2001.
People who lost friends and family.
People who were witness to the horror. First responders who made it out alive while their colleagues were buried under rubble. Volunteers who spent days on end tending to victims or searching for survivors, then bodies.
We’ll attend our ceremonies and we’ll sit in front of our television, re-watching the towers fall and staring at the plane sticking out of the Pentagon. We’ll honor the dead with a prayer or a moment of silence or a flower placed at a memorial. And then we’ll go back to our lives. We’ll go to work or run some errands or maybe go out with a friend and we’ll talk about how we’ll “never forget.”
I’ll never forget it. It’s the day I said “Thank God the guy I voted for didn’t become president.” It’s the day liberalism died for me.
I completely agree. The people left behind deserve to be remembered too. I can’t even imagine living with that kind of tragedy in a personal, painful way in what I can only imagine must be a constant ache.
The children that will know their Fathers or Mothers, Aunts or Uncles, Grandmas or Grandpas…Sisters, Brothers, Cousins, Friends… How do you go on without falling apart?
My thoughts and prayers go out to those who survived and the heroes who saved lives or died trying.
I’ll never, ever forget that awful day and the feeling as if the rug had been pulled out from under our Country.
Edit 2nd Paragraph to read:
The children who will not know their Fathers or Mothers, Aunts or Uncles, Grandmas or Grandpas…Sisters, Brothers, Cousins, Friends… How do you go on without falling apart?
Lest we forget.
Bless the FDNY
and all the others, that were standing by.
They shall never be forgotton.
All they were, is still. God Bless America.
There was a project a couple of years ago where bloggers would randomly select a 911 victim and post about them, I wonder if it is still going on.
Unfortunately our society moves at such a speedy pace that the survivors are long forgotton. Someone should start a blog project about them.
I wouldn’t be surprised that one day 9/11, 12/7 and others would be incorporated into Memorial Day, a federal holiday observed the last Monday of May.
It originally honored the people killed in the American Civil War, but has become a day on which the American dead of all wars, and the dead generally, are remembered in special programs held in cemeteries, churches, and other public meeting places. The flying of the American flag is widespread.
Many Americans are not somber people or delve into unsavory memories. Our attitude is ‘learn and move forward’.
On 9/11/01 I was shocked. On 9/12/01 I began reading the Koran, the Ahadith, the life of Muhammed, and the history of Islam. I wanted to understand what would motivate followers of a “noble religion”, a “religion of tolerance”, a “religion of peace” to savagely murder so many innocent people.
What I discovered is that Islam is not a noble religion, but a savage religion. It is not a tolerant religion, but a supremecist religion. It is not a religion of peace, but a religion of war.
It is a “religion” founded by Muhammed, one of the most evil men in the pantheon of human history. Muhammed was a murderer, a decapitator, a mutilator, a slaver, a human trafficker, a misogynist, a sexual deviant, a rapist, a paedophile, a sex trafficker, a looter, a thief, a liar, a genocidist, motivated by unquenchable greed, lust and power. This can all be verified in the Islamic holy books, where it is recorded in black & white for all the world to see.
I discovered that the prime directive of Islam as mandated in the Koran and evinced by the words and deeds of Muhammed, is to convert, subjugate or kill all non-Muslims, and seize by holy war (Jihad) all non-islamic lands so that religion will be one for Allah.
On this day of rememberance, we must understand that 9/11 was no “terrorist attack”, but an Islamic blitzkrieg against America’s economic, political and military centers. It was an attempt to collapse the free world in three strokes of the sword of Allah.
We must also understand that we are not engaged in a “War on Terror”. We are engaged in an ISLAMIC WORLD WAR. This is an eternal conflict, with no end until Islam has won completely.
We must come to grips with the fact that the enemy is Islam. Not “radical” Islam or “militant” Islam, because Islam is radical & militant by its very nature. It is a violent, totalitarian, supremacist, imperialist ideology that divides the world into two parts: Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam, where Islam is dominant) and Dar al-Harb (the land of war, where the infidel is dominant).
Every aspect of Islam is organized to wage war, convert, subjugate or kill. The mosque is the command post, the imam the field commander, the ayatollah the general, and every Muslim a potential foot soldier in Islam’s global campaign.
They abide by no civilized rules of engagement, wear no uniforms, and respect no borders, intentionally slaughtering civilians, raping, brutalizing, and intimidating, in addition to using guns, suicide bombers, and airliners to kill.
We must also face the fact that the Islamic diaspora (the ummah) is engaged in a “HOT” war, killing and advancing their agenda all around the planet:
- Islam against the Hindus in India
- Islam against the Catholics in the Philippines
- Islam against the Buddhists in Thailand
- Islam against the Jews in Israel, Yemen, Iran and even S. America (wherever Jews exist)
- Islam against the Coptic Christians in Egypt
- Islam against the Christians and animists in the Sudan
- Islam against the Christians in N. Nigeria
- Islam against the Chaldean Christians in Iraq
- Islam against the Zoroastrians & Baha’i in Iran
- Islam against the athiests in formerly Christian Europe
- Rising Islamist movement in “secular” Turkey
- Rising Islamist movement “democratic” nuclear armed Pakistan
- Rising Islamist movement in “modern, moderate” Malaysia
- Rising Islamist movement in Algeria
- Islam against the Christians in Indonesia
- Islam against infidel schoolchildren in Beslan, Russia
- Islam against infidel Australian tourists in Hindu Bali
- Islamic religious apartheid in Saudi Arabia
- Islam against the train commuters in Spain
- Islam against tube riders in London
- Islam against the “infidel” U.S. Embassies in Kenya & Tanzania
- Islam against office workers in New York (twice)
- Islam against freedom of speech at the U.N.
- Islam against schoolgirls in Afghanistan
- Islam against Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia (ambushed and decapitated)
- Islam against homosexuals in Iran, Iraq and everywhere they exist
- Islam against women
- Islam against Polish & Korean engineers (beheaded)
- Islam against authors (Salman Rushdie & his death fatwa)
- Islam against journalists like Daniel Pearl (decapitated)
- Islam against movie producers (Theo van Gogh brutally slaughtered)
- Islam against parked cars in Paris
- Islam against everything we stand for
The cold hard fact is that the Islamists are engaged in an “ISLAMIC WORLD WAR”, and we should call it that, not the politically correct “war on terror”. It is not a war on terror, it is an ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
The Islamists are aligning themselves with other despotic regimes, like Venezuela, as the National Socialists Workers Party (NAZI’s) did with fascist Italy.
And the Islamists, encouraged by Obama, empowered by oil profits, emboldened by the cowardice of the free west and our unwillingness to defend our culture, and inspired by their evil successes, continue their incursions and will keep fighting.
They have clearly defined their enemy: us. They have the will to kill, the will to die, and no one is willing to stop them.
But we must stop them.
This is the simple but painful truth that we must acknowledge, or else we will be subjugated and our culture destroyed.
~ The Infidel Alliance
I remember… every second of it. I remember watching a news feed TV screen at work, scratching my head and speculating with the others standing around me as to what happened to cause the crash at the World Trade Center… and staring in shock as the second plane loomed into the picture to strike the second tower. My heart sunk, everyone suddenly knew it wasn’t an accident.
I remember folks scrabbling around packing up their personal computers, paperwork that would be useful and preparing to head out. The Navy Captain who was the deputy for the organization, passed the word for contractors to start getting out and getting home as fast as possible, so that we could get on line from there. Federal employees had to stay because OPM had no “liberal leave” policy for a terrorist attack I suppose.
I remember the phone call from a frantic colleague who was stuck on I395 south in Arlington. He’d just seen an airliner fly into the Pentagon, and he was in a blind panic.
I remember getting out of the office and heading south, passing fire trucks and ambulances head north to Arlington. I can still see the dark cloud forming a thin finger to the north…
I remember driving home on the Prince William Parkway, a cloudless sky usually filled with the sight of airliners and private planes, empty save a few thin twin contrail traces of fighterplanes arching about.
I remember listening to the radio in the car, for reports of traffic, accidents, and especially for news of a fourth missing airliner that hadn’t been accounted for yet. I also remember the sad feeling when some news cast mentioned that it had crashed in rural Pennsylvania and rescue crews were having difficulty getting to the site because of the remote location of the crash.
I also remember getting my kids from school. Setting up for remote work, and starting the search for friends who I knew worked at the Pentagon. I remember scouring lists of casualties, sad to find a high school classmate of my sister’s, a former coworker of hers (and mine on a few project bids). I remember the relief the morning of September 12, finally getting in contact with a friend who was nearly killed as his office in the Pentagon was destroyed under his feet. Word trickled in from family that a cousin who was in the World Trade Center, at work on the 4th floor of one of the towers, had made it out safely and was at home.
I remember…. I will never forget…
And I am saddened because too many citizens of this nation will forget. They will not only forget, but it will warp and distort. The media in its cravenness to serve its phony pacifism will resort to anything to change history, change the events, distort the reasons, and obfuscate the truth.
We are faced with an enemy that resorts to violence FIRST. He uses the threat of violence to cow his enemies, and the promise of negotiation to buy time. He looks at the reticence to fight as weakness and lack of resolve. He sees us as craven, gullible, corrupt, and ultimately impotent.
This nation sleeps again, and now September 11, 2001 is merely an excuse for “The One” (whose election is demonstration of our ignorance writ large) to push his socialist agenda on the nation.
We are sliding into an abyss from which we probably will not find the will to from which to secure an exit.
God Bless those who parished on September 11, 2001. May their souls rest in eternal peace. May God have mercy on the United States of America, and may He grant that enough of this nation’s citizens wake from their torpor and make this nation great once again.
The Mighty Fahvaag
To arhooley: Really?. And has bin Laden been captured yet? And thanks to that little, completely unrelated detour through Iraq, people are feeling so burnt out about war that they aren’t interested anymore in Afghanistan, even though it was the Afghan Taliban who protected bin Laden and refused to turn him over to US. Yeah, I’m sure Gore would have been even more of a colossal failure and liar….
1. arhooley: I’ll never forget it. It’s the day I said “Thank God the guy I voted for didn’t become president.”
Another repentant Pat Buchanan supporter.
There are many of us who have not forgotten!
Yes, remember the victims and families. And honor the heroic first responders. And the surviviors. But most of all, remember the perpetrators. The most fitting act of remeberance would be the extermination of the cult that wishes to destroy us. Not just Ben Laden….all of them. No Miranda rights. No ACLU bull. No compassion. Remember the words of that glorious Hero of the Left ‘one persons’ death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic’. And to those of you who wish to have a dialogue with our enemies among that great peaceful religion known as Islam, I suggest that you volunteer to be minesweepers in Afghanistan.
2. Delia:
“The children that will not know their Fathers or Mothers, Aunts or Uncles, Grandmas or Grandpas…Sisters, Brothers, Cousins, Friends… How do you go on without falling apart?”
Maybe you should ask Ann Coulter that question::
“These broads are millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzis. I’ve never seen people enjoying their husbands’ deaths so much.”
Or Glenn Beck:
“It took me about a year to start hating the families of the 9/11 victims.”
You’re right about one thing, we will never forget.
BC- Quit with the “Dem talking points” already. You are wrong. Your reasoning is fallacious, and your basis for argumentation merely partisan Democrat.
1. The US had more than enough resources to conduct the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The proposition that Bin Laden wasn’t captured in Afghanistan because of a completely different military operation in Iraq is nonsense. There were two separate military organizations engaged.
IF and it is a big IF, because no one has seen a malignant whisker of Bin Laden since 2003 (the last known video evidence turned out to be highly suspect and that was years ago) is still alive, he has been hiding in PAKISTAN which the last time that I checked was a nuclear armed, independent sovereign nation, over which we have limited influence. Furthermore, the region in which Bin Laden is supposedly hiding is an ungovernable outlaw territory between the “Westphalian” border between the Western political constructs of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The territory is ruled by tribal chieftains, and has been ungovernable for centuries if not millennia.
2. Who the hell cares about Bin Laden anymore. He’s been rendered completely impotent (individually) just like any general who has been knocked out of a war. Bin Laden is but one piece in an entire dark chess match between two views of civilization. His capture or killing would no more end this conflict than did the killing of Admiral Yamamoto in April 1943. That operation was successful, but gee that war didn’t end until September 1945, after ever more horrendous loses. Your (and I mean all of you Lefty partisan talking point nonsense peddlers) perpetually indulge in fantasy scenarios that support your world and political views. You make up facts, warp information streams, and set up phony straw-men to support your continual drive to build your socialist utopias.
4. There is a marginally stable democratically elected government in Iraq. The danger of the despot Saddam Hussein has been removed. As in all things embarked upon by mankind, the operation was not neat or perfect, or flawlessly executed. However, the success in Iraq today stands in stark refutation of your argument (excuse… talking point…whatever).
Afghanistan has become infinitely more difficult. Irony of ironies here, the Dems are hoist on their own petard (very apt analogy on this one, I assure you). They used, as your approve propaganda ploy demonstrates, the relative placidity of Afghanistan, as a bait and switch to mask their true intentions of abandoning the War on Terror, and going back to their “Terrorism as a Crime” philosophy of 9/10/2001. They used it to flog the Bush Administration and Republicans in general. They now have what they sorely wished. A relatively peaceful Iraq with that peace being helped along by increasingly minimalized US military support. They can now commit their entire effort to showing up their hated Devil Bush and reviled Darth Cheney and spend their time resources and efforts to go after Osama and his crew. BTW make sure that cave address is correct, you wouldn’t want to serve the arrest warrant to the wrong terrorist (one not involved directly in 9/11). No knock warrants are absolutely forbidden, and make sure the judge double signs the document, and has it properly notarized. Oh… and please read Osama his rights we wouldn’t want the charges dismissed on a technicality.
Of course Bin Laden’s long dead corpse probably won’t care much.
I would sign off with my usual, but today is not the day.
-The Mighty Fahvaag
BTW: Barry has been in office since January… more than enough time I would say, so where is Osama, anyway? hum? Evil Dubyah isn’t in charge anymore… oh? Situation has changed? Not so easy now? Democrat phonies…
My dad was right- we should’ve nuked them in immediate retaliation. In fact, I dare say we’d be justified to nuke them now, telling the world we’re sick and tired of this war and we don’t care what anybody thinks. Dropping a nuke is long overdue justice for 9/11 and should be the way we respond to any and all future attacks. Bomb a school bus? We drop a nuke. Shoot up a mall? We drop a nuke. The enemy will give up for want of manpower- you can’t fight a war when you lose ten thousand men for every one of the enemy you kill.
“Hey Ma, it’s me. Do you know which building Tim works in? I know it’s one of the towers. Which one though? Do you remember? Something happened downtown a few minutes ago – probably no big deal.”
I tend to remember only the things I need to know. My problem is that I also tend to forget why I needed to know these things in the first place. And so on.
So it goes.
I am so sorry,for all of those people.
Anyone who was alive and of sound mind on 9/11/01 and cannot or will not honor those who died at the hands of Islamic terrorists do not deserve to be called Americans.
WE were attacked on 9/11. The very foundation of our nation, our civilization, was savaged by those who neither understand nor desire to understnd freedom.
As long as I live I’ll never forget that day. I live in New Jersey but was working in midtown Manhattan that day when the planes hit. We didn’t know what was going on and from where we were located all we could see was smoke rising from lower Manhattan. The weather was spectacular that day and visibility was unlimited. People were streaming up the avenues from lower Manhattan and heading north. Eventually, we saw even more smoke going up from the area around the World Trade Center after the two towers collapsed. And then we saw US fighter jets circling over Manhattan and didn’t know if the last great building in New York City, the Empire State building (which my office was very close to), was going to be the next target. So we waited and wondered what would happen next.
When I finally was able to make it home to New Jersey the next day (since all the bridges and tunnels going from New York to New Jersey had been closed), I went to get my car from the parking lot next to the bus station where I get my bus to go into the city. I noticed several cars still in the lot, which I thought was strange considering the time of day. Then, like an idiot, it struck me. Some of the people who parked those cars in that lot and went into the city on September 11 were not coming back. Unfortunately, I was right. In our small town in New Jersey we lost four people and that loss has never left us.
How can you forget this stuff? Why would you want to, that is the question. Remember it. All of it. Every detail, every moment, every feeling. Pass it on to future generations, just like our parents did when telling us about what happened when Pearl Harbor was attacked. It is our responsibility to make sure people never forget what happened on that awful day.
And to those of you out there (such as “BC,” Bibbio44,” “Now and Then”) who would take this day, of all days, to try and make cheap political points to further your own twisted agenda, I hope you feel the same loss as some of us felt on that day. You bottom-feeders and trolls should be shunned because you are the lowest of the low, and I hope you, people like you, and the organizations where idiots like you find a home (like MoveOn.org or the Daily Kos) will perish from this earth one day. Shame on you.
“Do We Really Mean It?”
That is rather up to us, isn’t it?
Do we remember Cowpens, Chapultapec, Saylors Creek, Five Forks, Huy, Hurtgen Forest, Chosen Reservoir?
It reminds me of Veterans Day. There are people who have never bothered to learn about the Second World War, the First World War, and all the rest. Riding on others coat tails is hardly new, but that doesn’t change the fact
that it is still a blight.
If we are to remember, let us remember correctly. Let us remember the whole truth. 9/11 was a tragedy for individuals and families, yes. But it was first and foremost an atrocity. Please use this word when you speak of it. Or find another word that says that it was a willful act of evil, not merely a hiccup between two tectonic plates or the mindless force of a cyclonic storm.
I was just an 11-year-old kid who lived in Europe in Sept, ’01….
Have you ever wondered what a kid knows about terrorism? Let me tell you, it’s not more than some crappy stories from the movies, which have the ever repeating plot… You know, bad men->make immoral or cruel things to innocent people->some crying, lots of blood and people fainting on the floor->as result:good cops/FBI ALWAYS cath the bad men in the end + some solemn in a good way music… That constituted my notion of terrorism at the age of 11.
I saw the events of 9/11 on the TV. I saw the planes crushing into the sky-scapers. I saw blast,dust,fire. And I saw human fear for lives mirrored in people’s eyes in panic. People whose main concern minutes ago was the vacant place on parking lot or how much they’d be late for their meeting… I saw them running, I heard them screaming…
All day the crush was presented on every single TV channel… and I, an 11-year old, wanted to re-watch it over and over.
I was waiting for the solemn music.
Music that didn’t follow.
There was no music on the next day either, when news showed it for what it seems like 100th time. And the 11-year old of me understood movies were wrong, terrorism deprived people of music, terrorism violently took the melody of their lives away… the way it took away the beats of their hearts.
So, I, an 11-year old kid, pressed the mute button and watched the silence on the screen. Then I got to the player and put in it the first CD I laid my eyes on.
Because I wanted to give people some melody to follow…. even if it was from so far away.
Kristin:
Yeah, the closing credits are never going to roll.
All the rest:
Rev 3:15-19
Like I posted before, I turned 9-11 into a day of service. I serviced my back pack. All the little things I need are important. I keep my BDU’s, and boots serviced. My weapons are serviced, and so is my hair, finger, and toe nails. My H-harness stays ready for service, and I service my body in the gym.
Every Marine Corp day I remember. Just as every Marine Corp day I remember the Twin Towers in 94, or the Korbar Towers, or USS Cole, etc… all the way back to 1983 when 243 Marines were murdered by the religion of peace.
#7 is very correct. Look at Belsen in Russia. That may very well be some school in America before to long, and Infidel Alliance warned you to be ready.
BZO, or Die!
Good article. I truly mean it, as does the author I’m sure. It is painful personally to see the vulnerabilities, & the greatest vulnerability is those who are making this something it’s not. An act of terrorism is not a tragedy or really an act of war – it’s something much more henious.
I know what I’ll never forget. The American president who cynically used the fear and anguish brought on by that cataclysm to bring death and destruction to another country, while simultaneously breeding corruption in our government and emptying our coffers. And the people who were either too stupid to know any better, too apathetic to speak up, or too heartless but throw up their hands and profit from it. That’s what I’ll never forget. Catalano you are either a member of the first or of the last, if in the first you long ago exhausted my ability to feel pity for you. If in the last, I’ll never stop hoping you burn in hell.
@28. Moho: – I know what I’ll never forget. The American president who cynically used the fear and anguish…
You should have that fantasy analyzed by a professional. It could indicate a serious mental illness.
I’ll never forget the greatest country on the planet giving freedom to millions of Muslims in Iraq. I will never forget the money Hussian gave to the Hamas bombers who murdered Jews because they were Jews. As well as Hussian allowing terrorists to live inside his country, and firing on our aircraft.
I will never forget the American lives lost fighting Islam to free other religion of peace fools in Afganistan, which is on going.
G-d’s speed to our troops in the field, and not the false moon god.
Goy. Your link has nothing to do with George W. Bush. If you want to make the counter-argument that others also cynically used 9-11 as a way of getting us mired in Iraq, you’ll get no argument from me. It doesn’t make what our President did any less disgusting, or you any less sleazy for trying to defend it at this stage of the game.
What makes me laugh is that you let Leatherneck’s delusional commentary go through without comment. Really, dude, you people are fruitcakes.
Moho:
“I know what I’ll never forget. The American president who cynically used blah blah blah Islamoleftist hate drivel”
You are one malignant shithead. How dare you spew your filth on a day to remember the crimes of your barbaric death-cult?
But of course, you were dancing and singing in the streets eight years ago today, weren’t you?
Hey, Mojo, lost in your rant is the reality that Saddam & Sons were a hideous mass murdering enterprise, who over decades killed more Iraqis than Americans by accident ever could, ask the Kurds and those that weren’t friends of the regime.
Any mass uprisings in Iraq over the years demanding Saddam back?
I propose that taking your lame liberal outdated memes to Iraq wouldn’t work out for you.
9/11 was not a disaster. It was not a tragedy. It was an atrocity. And unlike disasters and tragedies, atrocities require more than remembrance.
They require vengeance.
If ONLY we had President Gore White House.
Or, Dare I Say it? President Moho?
34. Bohemond:
“(Atrocities) require vengeance.”
Exactly! Exactly! It’s time to squash the Swedes. Let’s roll!
Hey, Mojo, lost in your rant is the reality that Saddam & Sons were a hideous mass murdering enterprise, who over decades killed more Iraqis than Americans by accident ever could, ask the Kurds and those that weren’t friends of the regime.
Guess what? Almost a million Rwandas killed in the nineties? Did we do anything about it? Central American regimes disappeared thousands of people with the seal of approval of the US–we even trained them how to do it.
I suppose the critical part that you left out was that we used the Hussein regime as a pretext to do what we wanted to do get control of Gulf oil. You don’t have the balls to admit it, always dressing yourself up in the suffering of people you didn’t give a crap about before George W. Bush told you to. Idiot.
To John – TMF: Sorry, but you’re one tripping up back-asswards over GOP talking points. I have similar discussion going on over at the “Eight Years After…” article thread, so I’ll just repost my responses here:
****
I’m tempted to make another snarky comment at yet more boneheaded comments about Obama, but there are a few more reasoned comments here than is usual for PJM. After a very bitter and very divisive election, 9/11 did very much unite almost everyone of all political stripes and philosophies. This wasn’t some complicated, arguable politics-ridden misadventure involving Latin America, Africa, the Middle East or such, but a bold, no-nonsense, in your face attack on not just US soil, but on its symbols. It was a time for all political BS to be put aside and get serious. And at first that’s what we did. An ultimatum to the Taliban to give up Bin Laden, pressure on Pakistan to cooperate, and when the Taliban didn’t cooperate, a call to arms and a swift beat down on both the Taliban and al-Qaeda forces in Afghanistan. And as to the site of the fallen World Trade Towers, there were all these bold plans to replace them with something even more soaring to become an even greater symbol of America. But roll ahead several years, and….
Another bitter election with even more divisive politics, although in a near complete reversal in philosophy and sides of the first one, a revived and wearying war in Afghanistan thanks to the prior administration not exactly keeping its attention there, delays and cutbacks in vision regarding getting anything done at the World Trade Towers site, permanent and eyerollingly inefficient delays at airports, and bin Laden still on the loose. What have we learned?
****
To Scott: You’re doing an awful lot of supposing and guesswork there, most of it not supported. Yeah, Iraq drew in a lot of bad guys wanting to get in on the party, but look at the consequences in terms of US casualties and especially those of Iraqi civilians, as well as US prestige. And never mind the evidence or lack thereof for justifying the invasion in the first place. Afghanistan, though, was a fair bust — nobody but nobody begrudged us going in because it was legitimate: we were hit bad and the guy primarily responsible was in Afghanistan and protected by the people ruling Afghanistan, and they weren’t giving him up. Nothing complicated in that scenario. The ferocity of our attack really took them by surprised and they basically just scattered. *That* was when we should have put our full resources into hunting them all down, and if we had, it would have been a virtual gimme that bin Laden would have been captured or dead by now, and more certainly al-Qaeda virtually destroyed as any sort of real threat.
But….we didn’t do that, did we?
****
To Scott: it *is* guesswork, and not too logical — the Iraq war not only gave al-Qaeda greater area to work from outside of their Afghan and Pakistani bases, but apparently actually helped al-Qaeda with its recruitment. And it was *not* “also generally accepted by most intelligence communities that Saddam possessed WMDs and was pursuing nuclear weapons” especially so after the Afghanistan invasion when intel gathering ramped up and pretty much all of it was pointing away from Iraq as not only having no WMD program, but also no ties to any terrorist groups outside of the Palestinians. What Pelosi, Kennedy or whoever *thought* might have been the case is utterly irrelevant to what Bush and his people thought, and they easily had the best, most up to date intel, and that intel apparently put a lie to their BS claims.
31. Moho: – Your link has nothing to do with George W. Bush.
That was the whole point. You simply chose to ignore it. But that’s nothing new.
- If you want to make the counter-argument that others also cynically used 9-11…
That’s YOUR straw man. You’ll have to defend it yourself. The facts, however, are quite different.
For a brief period all of the people quoted and recorded for posterity at that site demonstrated that they understood what was at stake, and what would happen if the U.S. didn’t go on the offensive in Radical Islam’s Terrorist War Against the Rest of the World. Clinton understood this as far back as 1998, but a blue dress forced him to burn all his political capital on BJs, preventing him from making good on his plan to invade Iraq. Like everything else he did, he had to leave all the heavy lifting to his Republican Congress and/or his successor.
And… uhm… Leatherneck’s comments? Lessee…
- service my back pack? Check. (every six weeks, ditto)
- keep my BDU’s, and boots serviced? Check. (my equivalent, anyway)
- weapons are serviced? Check and double-check.
- H-harness stays ready for service? Check. (with Camelbak® attachment)
- service my body in the gym? Well… 4 out of 5…
- remember the Twin Towers… Kohbar Towers… USS Cole, all the way back to 1983 when 243 Marines were murdered by the religion of peace. Check.
- Beslan? Check
- the greatest country on the planet giving freedom to millions of Muslims? Check.
- the money Hussian [sic] gave to the Hamas bombers who murdered Jews? Check.
- Hussian [sic] allowing terrorists to live inside his country, and firing on our aircraft? Check
- American lives lost fighting Islam to free other religion of peace fools in Afganistan? Check
Nothing delusional in that list. Looks like you’re the one suffering the delusions, bub. Like I said – get professional help.
37. Moho:
Now, now, Moho. Don’t go contradicting the neo’s convictions with facts. That just makes them angry. Then they get their chikchawk feathers all puffed up. And that can only mean scat references are headed your way. (I offer as evidence post #32 “You are one malignant shithead.” Don’t take it personally. It’s the immutable voice of their sexual repression.) Better to let them knot their own ropes. We’ll pull the lever again next November.
39. goy:
The ramblings of a true paranoid. A clear example of stunted development, halted somewhere between survivalist and Webelo. Did it ever occur to you that the only people you have to fear are the other paranoids? (Now about those outstanding invoices, please, do the honorable thing.)
Our national interest is in the flow of oil. I wish is was not. I have to admit, it makes it OK to war if that interest is at stake.
A nation is not an individual, and a nation needing to make war to secure it’s way of life is something that happens through out History. Rwanda is, or was not a vital interest.
Sure, it would be nice to stop the murder there, or anywhere it happens. However, how can a nation,(like ours), justify sending the military to Rawanda?
It appeared at the time, those who were leading this American nation desided to take Saddam out for a number of reasons. But, as we remember the men and women murdered on 2001/09/11 by moon god worshipers, I do not think this is the time, or place to argue right vs wrong on the Iraq war.
My post above this one was spot on. Plus, I did not wish anyone to go to hell. Except maybe Mohamed, who murdered and raped his whole life, and gave the world a false religion of hate to follow.
38. BC: – To Scott: it *is* guesswork…
Nine tequila shots is probably enough for you, BC. You should probably switch back to the Evian until you can keep track of which thread you’re posting in.
It is hard to say what we should think so many years later. I don’t think any of us can forget it or what we were doing when it happened when it’s called to our memory – but it is true that over the years we do forget some of the important things from it.
It makes me think of the classic adage “forgive and forget” – While many would argue that what happened that day was unforgivable, you have to remember that forgiveness is important and part of the healing process. Yes, that day was tragic. But life and wonderful things abound all around us – and it would be even more a shame to miss these things too to harbor resentment and fear. If anything, we should use this day as a reminder to be thankful for what we have – not what we don’t have.
Indeed, Now & Then…and then comes the inevitable circle jerk on to their combat boots, assuming that no one but morons like them have been in the service or have family in the service.
I refuse to forgive the unrepentant, and I sure won’t forgive Satan for being a liar, a thief and a murderer.
Moho and now and then…
Pencil necked ..self loathing gay olberman types.
Nothing against gays… but you guys are adolescent in your gayness,
You are cowards and stupid.
We don’t fear you.. we laugh at you.. we will kick your ass.. soon enough.
To goy: Actually maybe you should have read the beginning of my response before letting your foot play in your mouth yet again.
Excellent posts goy. Keep up the great work slamming these lefturds.
Over.
Well said. It is those who survived, those around whom the country rallied and who have gone on despite the enormous pain and loss, who continue to help us remember. Because they cannot help but remember every single day.
That anyone, especially the current administration, would dare to try and shift the day’s focus from one of remembrance in service of their fascist ideologies is a travesty.
http://tinyurl.com/ngkmy5
Nothing against gays… but you guys are adolescent in your gayness,
You are cowards and stupid.
Yeah, right. Nothing against gays. This is the difference between people like you and me. I hate you people. You’re stupid, offensive, purposefully ignorant and barely literate. I don’t have any problem saying what I think; you people are constantly hiding your prejudices and bigotry. You used to be open about it, but now you’re so scared that you’ll be outed for what you are, that you cower in fear, using weasel words and hiding behind euphemisms. Really pathetic. I’m pretty sure in a fair fight, you’d be on your knees begging for mercy after about two minutes. I know your type.
@48. BC: – …maybe you should have read the beginning of my response …
I did, of course. Was that not clear? Lay off the booze a while longer, putzie.
MOHO:
See, you did it again. You hate. That rage is eating you alive. You need to learn to channel the rage into loving dialogue. In the end, your bitteness will consume you. You need to remember the path of the Lord and accept the deficiencies and limitations of others, and extend a hand. We all need to try to get along. I am praying for you.
To Goy: Apparently not — you wrote:
“Nine tequila shots is probably enough for you, BC. You should probably switch back to the Evian until you can keep track of which thread you’re posting in.”
After I has already written at the beginning of the post you are referring to:
“I have similar discussion going on over at the ‘Eight Years After…’ article thread, so I’ll just repost my responses here:”
Do you, like, start hitting the hard stuff before you even shave?
20. Libertyship46:
“And to those of you out there (such as “BC,” Bibbio44,” “Now and Then”) who would take this day, of all days, to try and make cheap political points to further your own twisted agenda, I hope you feel the same loss as some of us felt on that day. You bottom-feeders and trolls should be shunned because you are the lowest of the low, and I hope you, people like you, and the organizations where idiots like you find a home (like MoveOn.org or the Daily Kos) will perish from this earth one day. Shame on you.”
Bullshit. And I reject your shame. And your death wish for me. Man up. You want to own 9/11. You can’t. You want to tell everyone that you’re the only one who really knows, really understands, really feels the day. You’re not. Never forget, it wasn’t Dallas or Atlanta or Orange County that got hit, it was NYC.
As for your comment on Moveon.org and the Daily Kos, how could you take this day, of all days, to try and make cheap political points to further your own twisted agenda?
Judge not, meathead.
@54. BC: – After I has [sic] already written…
Oh wait – I get it – you think it’s normal (let alone interesting to anyone else) to cross-post dupes of your B.S. propaganda in more than one place.
That explains your confusion.
To Now and Then: Please — you right-wingers can try to twist things all you want, but the bottom line is that 8 years later the guy behind the 9/11 attacks is still on the loose.
The Iraq invasion/war was never, ever more than deceitful, deranged and ultimately wearying distraction from the task at hand. Yeah, Afghanistan is looking to be a harder nut to crack than Iraq — so friggin what? Go spineless because it’s hard to do or because you’re drained out by all the death and destruction in Iraq? Let’s say some guy from the next town shoots your dog and burns down your house — would you use that as an excuse to shoot the guy down the block from you whom you never liked? That’s Iraq in a nutshell — and it has about as much a connection to 9/11 as that guy down the street to the guy in the next town who shot your dog and burned down your house. Yeah, be satisfied with Iraq — even though it had nothing to do with 9/11. WTF — Gawd….
Now and Then, I agree. The assumption that none of us could have been affected by 9-11 the way that the right wing nutballs have is the key to the movement. I actually lived in NYC for six years until 9-11. I assume that I had more connection to it than some toothless appalachian hillbilly. The people who actually had a stake in 9-11, got tired of these knuckledragging crybabies long ago.
Hey, “Now And Then” #55, I didn’t know the allowed people in mental institutions access to the Internet. You’re proof positive what’s wrong with the MoveOn and Daily Kos crowd. You are so twisted by hate and ignorance that you can’t even see what a fool you’re making of yourself. I don’t think a jerk like you could ever feel shame because your brain has been fried by all of the left-wing propaganda you’ve been reading. I never said I “owned” anything, except for some memories from that horrible day. But sick individuals such as yourself just can’t leave bad enough alone. If I’m understanding you and you’re trying to compaire 9/11 to either the Kennedy assasination or the King assasination, you really are on some serious drugs. Trying to compare assasinations by lone gunmen to an attack that killed 3,000 Americans really is insulting and an outrage to anyone who lost someone on that day. You really need to take your head out of BC’s ass long enough to get some fresh air. It may do you some good. And remember this, jerk face, no matter how many of you MoveOn types try to soil this day, what happened on 9/11 will never be forgotten for what it was, an act of war against this nation and a wanton act of murder committed against innocent people. No, a person like you could never be shamed because you personify shame. You are the essence of shame, the type of person they used to shun but don’t anymore. Pity, because people had it right back then. You’re just an angry person with nowhere to go, except the Internet. Hope you enjoy swimming in your hate, you moron.
59. Libertyship46:
Everyone laments 9/11, sport. I also lament this, the very things you hold up as shining examples of conservative excellence.
“These self-obsessed women seem genuinely unaware that 9-11 was an attack on our nation and acted like as if the terrorist attack only happened to them. They believe the entire country was required to marinate in their exquisite personal agony. Apparently, denouncing bush was part of the closure process. These broads are millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by griefparrazies. I have never seen people enjoying their husband’s death so much.” – Ann Coulter
“It took me about a year to start hating the families of 9/11 victims.” – Glenn Beck
Now, until you and the rest of the self-righteous hypocrites of the right wing lunatic fringe reconcile this idiocy with the concept of patriotism and who is or is not a “real” American, what you think or say is irrelevant.
And no, I wasn’t referring to the assassination of King or Kennedy, I was reminding you that terrorists didn’t attack a right wing location (Dallas or Atlanta or Orange County) they attacked NYC. Did you think it was about Kennedy just because I mentioned Dallas? That’s a quite a leap. King because I mentioned Atlanta? Bigger leap still, since King was shot in Memphis. I have no idea who was assassinated in Orange County. Maybe you should stick with the literal and leave interpretation to the professionals.
Hey “Now and Then,” as usual the MoveOn jerks and lemmings like you try to imply that anyone who has the temerity to disagree with ignorant blowhards like you are either a fan or follower of Glen Beck or Ann Coulter. If you took a look at either of my posts (I assume you can read; you’re Head Start program must have covered that) you’ll see I never mentioned anyone and I only talked about my impressions of 9/11. Well look, sport, my opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s around here and I didn’t attack anyone until dirt-for-brains people like you started to make snarky comments about what I had to say. It’s just like morons like you. God forbid anyone else has a different view of the world than you sick individuals. You’re like rabid dogs. When you can’t get what you want, you have to try and stomp it into the ground. Well I’ve had it with trolls like you.
You are probably sitting in your mom’s house in your underwear sipping Kool Aid and getting paid your minimum wage from some George Soros organization like MoveOn or Media Matters. You rail against anyone else who doesn’t see the world through your worm’s eye view and if somebody, anybody, doesn’t tow the liberal line they have to be eliminated. And you wonder why people hate you so much. But you’re right. You bums are the “professionals” at this sort of thing because that’s all you do. You’ve never advanced one original idea or accomplished one thing except to moan and complain of how the world has “screwed you.” It would be hilarious if it weren’t so pathetic. You never have any answers for any problems, just excuses why the “other guy” has to be blamed for everything. And if immature, self-centered, little socialists like you ever do get a real job, it’s probably a government job at the Post Office or the DMV because nobody in private industry could actually stomach a person like you for more than a minute or two. Am I getting close here, bub?
So now that you started this thing, I’ll be happy to finish it. I’ve just about had it with people like you. If you don’t like what’s being said here, then LEAVE! It’s not like there is a shortage of places for sick, demented, fools like you to go to. I’m sure the Daily Kos or the Huffington Post would welcome a brain-damaged idiot like you with open arms. And unlike the Daily Kos or the Huffington Post, this blog doesn’t scrub comments like yours, so you feel like you have a free pass to insult people who never wanted to have anything to do with you. So why not go where your’ comments would be truly appreciated? I’ll tell you why. Because you’re probably being paid to disrupt blogs and web sites. What other reason could there be for you to spend time here spreading your insanity among people who’d wish you’d die a slow and painful death? You know the answer to that. Whatever liberals, or socialists, can’t own they want to destroy. You want a monopoly in the marketplace of ideas and I just won’t let that happen, bud. I hope that more people around here will take a stand against weasels like you. Stand up to these thugs, America. They have nothing to offer except prejudice and ignorance and the least we can do is send them back to where they came from, those dark, dank, web sites that George Soros loves to fund.
61. Libertyship46:
“Well look, sport, my opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s around here . . . I’ve just about had it with people like you. If you don’t like what’s being said here, then LEAVE!”
Good advice for you as well, chumly. You seem to think I should accept your opinion, but you don’t have to accept mine. Now I know that is how most people around here think, but that’s not going to get you anywhere with me. Whether you “just about had it” is completely meaningless. You don’t like having your conservative heroes (Coulter and Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh, at al) exposed for what they are – raving extremist lunatics. And they’re relentless dissembling and misrepresentations illustrate the worst of American politics. The fact that I used them to make a point about you, and used you to make a point about them, well, that’s my business. The truth hurts, and so you choose to deny it in favor of Geritol-enhanced personal attacks.
“God forbid anyone else has a different view of the world than you sick individuals.”
Think about that. Honestly, if you can’t analyze that through to its logical conclusion, there’s no hope for you.
they’re to their
“I know what I’ll never forget. The American president who cynically used the fear and anguish brought on by that cataclysm to bring death and destruction to another country…”
Ah, still agonizing over the fact that America beat the living crap out of your Baathist and terrorist pals in Iraq, eh?
Bummer for you, dude.
37. Moho:
“Central American regimes disappeared thousands of people with the seal of approval of the US–we even trained them how to do it.”
Harry S Truman
Dwight Eisenhower
John F Kennedy
Lyndon Johnson
Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George HW Bush
The atrocities happened under their guard.
Some closed their eyes, some pushed the envelope . . .
Hey “Now and Then” #62, what was interesting about your post is what you DIDN’T say. Evidently, I was right in that you’re probably being paid by MoveOn or Media Matters to come on this blog and spew your bile. You didn’t deny it and you certainly didn’t bring it up. I hope the other people around here note that. Of course this nut job doesn’t want to be here. He has absolutely nothing in common with any of the other people on this blog (except for some of his other paid cohorts, like probably BC). So why is he here? Because he’s PAID to be here, that’s why. Again, he could easily vent his bitter bile on some leftist web site, but he chooses to come here to annoy other people. Well, from now on I’m going to make sure you earn your money.
You keep dragging up these supposed “conservative heroes” of mine. They only really exist in that feverish imagination of yours, jerk face. Once again, read my posts. I NEVER MENTIONED either Beck or Coulter. Deal with it. As usual, trolls like you think that can smear people just by yelling out a lot of names. But that’s the leftist way, right? Make everybody else the enemy and never listen to what they have to say, right? You and your ilk make me sick. Go back to the Huffington Post where you belong and go associate with your other socialist friends. Get off on that over there, NOT here.
You also said, “You seem to think I should accept your opinion, but you don’t have to accept mine. Now I know that is how most people around here think, but that’s not going to get you anywhere with me. Whether you “just about had it” is completely meaningless.” I’m not asking you to “accept” anything, dirtbag. I’m asking you TO LEAVE! You obviously don’t want to be here, so why are you? Oh, that’s right, YOU’RE BEING PAID TO BE HERE! You also said that “I know that is how most people around here think.” Good, at least that’s some progress. At least you understand that you’re NOT WANTED, but you’re here anyway, right chum. So why do you stay? Again, YOU’RE BEING PAID TO DISRUPT THIS SITE.”
So there you have it, folks, the reason dirt-for-brains (oh, sorry, Now and Then) is in here. He’s paid to smear people with general liberal talking points and to waste everybody’s time with his sick conspiratorial views. And I stand by what I said. You can’t tolerate people who you don’t agree with and you feel the need to insult them because of that. I only called you out after I saw the disgusting things you were saying on this site, and on 9/11 no less. What your precious little (and I do mean little) mind can’t comprehend is when people don’t just tamely submit and take your crap. You’re just angry because I’m standing up for myself (and for other people around here) and giving this stuff right back at you. Like I said. You started it and now I’m finishing it. Deal with it, “chumly.”
@57. BC: – …the bottom line is that 8 years later the guy behind the 9/11 attacks is still on the loose.
The more important guy – the confessed masterminded behind 9/11 – has been in U.S. custody for quite some time now. So once again you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.
The guy who ordered 9/11 is “on the loose” – a phrase for which you seem to have a pretty funny definition:
Living in constant fear of UAV attack.
Forced into a perpetual state of hiding.
His organization decimated, his terrorist “army” defeated – in Iraq.
Unable to move or communicate freely.
Forced to wait for a panty-waist U.S. administration like BHO’s in order to make good on his next chance to kill mindless, useful idiots like you.
Of course we must never forget 9-11 and we must really mean it. But equally important, we must never forget Katrina and its continuing effects on the city of New Orleans and her people, plus those on the Mississippi and Louisiana Gulf Coasts. This year, as the anniversary of 9-11 was well-publicized, that of Katrina was neglected and forgotten for the most part. Never forget Katrina.
It’s up to you … i just release this memory behind.