Waiting for Dorner
So you show up at work one day, and your supervisor tells you that instead of your normal duties you’re going to be working a protection detail at a fellow officer’s home. Okay, you say, but why?
And your supervisor tells you that they’ve identified a suspect in a double murder, the one down in Irvine that everyone’s been talking about, the one where the daughter of a retired LAPD captain and her fiancé were shot to death while sitting in a car. And he goes on to tell you that the suspect is a former LAPD cop who was fired a few years ago, and that he had put some kind of twisted manifesto on his Facebook page saying he had declared war on the LAPD and would hunt down and kill everyone he held responsible for his getting canned from the job. And their families.
And you say, “What?”
Then you get a copy of this guy’s manifesto, and the first thing you do is skim through it looking for your name. And though you’re relieved not to find yourself listed among the killer’s targets, there are people you know on the list and you wonder if all of these protection details the LAPD is scrambling to put together will be in place before the guy strikes again. And you think, the guy blames the retired captain (among many others) for his getting fired, so he goes out and kills his daughter? And her fiancé? What the hell is wrong with this guy?
Plenty, as you come to learn, for as you read more deeply into his manifesto you realize he’s put a lot of thought into it — a lot of pretty tangled thought, but a lot of thought nonetheless — and he says he’s got all kinds of guns and military gear and knows how to use them and not get caught.
Then your cell phone starts ringing. It’s people you work with or used to work with, and they have questions. Have you seen the manifesto? Can you believe so-and-so is on the list? Can you believe the guy is willing to kill family members over this? And then you talk to a coworker who tells you that a friend of his is on the list, and your coworker says it was he who informed his friend to arm up and hunker down more than an hour before anyone from the department got around to officially warning him.
Then they tell you the cop you’ll be protecting is someone you used to work with, and you and the rest of your detail drive 30 or 40 miles to his house out in the suburbs and get set up. A few guys in tight on the house, a few others farther out, a few others even farther out. Every car that comes through the neighborhood has to be checked out. You want to knock on the door of the house you’re guarding and ask how your former coworker is doing but you don’t want to bother him and his family, because God knows how they must be feeling. But then he needs to go out for some groceries, so you arrange to put him in an unmarked car with some cops in plain clothes, so at least he can go and get what he needs without making a big scene at the supermarket.
And when he gets back from the grocery run you talk to him for a minute in front of the house and ask him how he’s doing. Okay, he says, but it’s hard on the family. And even though he tries not to act worried — because, you know, we’re cops and we never want to act worried around other cops — even though he tries to act like he isn’t worried you can see that he is and you can see that he hasn’t slept much and you can only imagine how his wife is doing and how he explains all of this to his kids, who can’t go to school or the playground or even out in their own yard.
So you tell him you’ve got his back, that you and the rest of the detail have the neighborhood covered. And he thanks you and goes back in the house, but you know he’s wondering: If the killer shows up here, are you going to be able to stop him? And you wonder the same thing, because even though you and the rest of the cops on your detail are armed to the teeth with every weapon the LAPD allows you to have (and maybe one or two it doesn’t), you know the killer you’re looking for has some formidable weapons of his own, including, if the reports are true, a .50 caliber sniper rifle, the bullet from which would go right through your ballistic vest and your car and probably a house or two before it stopped.
Then you learn that the guy you’re looking for is driving a gray Nissan Titan pickup truck, which you Google on your cell phone so you know what the damn thing looks like, and the truth is that it looks pretty much like a lot of pickup trucks. And later on you learn that the guy shot at two LAPD cops out in Corona, which is even farther from L.A. than where you are. Those cops were out there doing the same thing you’re doing, which is guarding someone on the killer’s list. And you’re happy when you hear that even though their black-and-white got thrashed with rifle rounds, the cops themselves weren’t badly hurt.
But then a little later you learn that out in Riverside, which is near Corona, two cops were ambushed while sitting at a traffic light, and one of those cops was killed and the other one may not make it either. And they tell you they don’t know where the killer went. And now, if you weren’t nervous before, you are now. And you check your guns and your ammunition and you go back over your plan for the fifth or sixth or tenth time with the rest of your team.
Then you hear that the killer may have been seen near the airport, which is pretty far from where you are, but then it’s pretty far from Riverside, too, and at that time of the early morning there’s nowhere in Southern California you can’t get to pretty quickly by freeway.
And then comes the “officer-needs-help” call from some Hollywood Division cops who are guarding someone in Torrance. A pickup truck was coming down the street with its lights off, right toward the house being guarded. And you think, great, maybe they got him, maybe we can all go home now. But then, terrible news: they shot up two women delivering newspapers. And you think, thank God it was them and not me, because you’ve had your front sight on quite a few cars since this whole thing started.
When you go home, you tell your wife what’s been going on, and she asks you lots of questions that you can’t answer because, well, how can you explain all of this? And you tell her not to worry because you’re not on the killer’s list and as far as you know you’ve never even seen the guy. And she says she’s not worried and you say you’re not worried, but you know she is and she knows you are. And a little later you’re sitting alone in your kitchen when a shadow comes across a window, and you think, what the hell was that? Then you realize it was just the wind blowing a tree branch, but you don’t tell your wife how scared you just were until she tells you that while you were at work the dog started barking at something or someone out in the yard, and she thought she might have heard the side gate to the house opening but when she looked out the window there was no one there. But what was the dog barking at?
The next day you go back to work and your protection detail, and you hear they’ve found the killer’s truck up near Big Bear — which is a long way from where you are — and they’re searching for him now, so far without success. And you think, why would he set his truck on fire if he didn’t want to draw attention to it? So you think he had another car stashed up in the mountains, and he’s still out there on the loose but now no one knows what he’s driving, so from now on every car that comes down the street is a potential threat. And by now all of the neighbors know why you’re there, and some of them stop and talk to you and tell you that you can use their bathroom if you need to, and some of them even bring you food, which makes you feel a little guilty, because last night you had a gun pointed at their car when they came down the street and pulled into their driveway. But you don’t tell them about that.
And then an unfamiliar car comes through the neighborhood, one with tinted windows so no one can see the driver, and it passes right by the house you’re guarding and slows down a bit but keeps going. “We need to ID the driver,” someone says over the radio, so you go after the car until you can get close to it and try to get a look inside. And you pull up next to it at a traffic light and try to see inside but the tinted windows make it hard. And you realize that if it is the killer, you might not know who he is but he sure knows who you are. And if it’s him, he’s got a gun pointed at you right now, and the last thing you’re going to see is that tinted window breaking when the bullet comes out heading right at . . . you.
Then you hear about an officer-involved shooting way down in Temecula, about a hundred miles from L.A., and again you think they got him, but a little later you find out it had nothing to do with the guy you’re looking for. And you remember that all the ordinary trouble and strife is still happening out there; the killer is not the only bad guy on the loose, only the worst of them.
But then comes other news: the killer stole a car up near Big Bear, or maybe it was a truck. The cops are chasing him. No, now they don’t know where he is, but he’s driving a white pickup truck. And you calculate how long it would take to drive from Big Bear to where you are, and God help the next person who comes down the street in a white pickup truck.
And then on the news radio stations the reports start coming in: they’ve found him. He’s surrounded in a cabin near Big Bear. There’s been more shooting. Two sheriff’s deputies have been hit. They’ve been flown to a hospital. And a little later you learn that one of them has died and now that’s four people dead, four people who never knew the killer, never met him, never even saw him before in their lives. And he thinks he got a raw deal.
Then, as night begins to fall, you hear the reports of the cabin going up in flames, and you think, well, if that’s what it takes. But even as the cabin is reduced to ashes there are rumors that the killer has escaped. He stole a police car and made it down the mountain. Or it wasn’t even him up there in the first place. And it seems like the fourth act in some horror movie where everyone thinks the monster is dead but he really isn’t and he kills a few more people before the good guys win and the credits roll and the lights come on.
They tell you the protection details will continue, because maybe, just maybe, the killer wasn’t caught in that fire after all. And then you’re replaced by the next shift, and as you drive home you listen to the news hoping someone is going to say it’s all over. But they won’t say it, not yet. Not until they find a body in there, and even then not until they identify it. When you get home, even though you haven’t had much sleep lately you can’t help but watch the news, and you learn that, yes, they did find a body but, no, they don’t know who it is because it’s been burned so badly. But then you hear they found a wallet with the killer’s driver’s license in it, so even though there’s no positive identification through DNA or dental records yet, you can go back to your regular duties because, finally, it’s all over.
All over that is, but for the antics of the odd band of people who profess support for the killer, who are getting organized on Facebook and staging protests at the LAPD headquarters building and asking questions like, “Why couldn’t we hear [the killer’s] side?” To which you want to answer, Maybe we’ve heard just about enough of his side.
And when you think it can’t get any worse there’s the inane commentary on television, like from the guy on CNN, some moral midget with a PhD, who talks about how “exciting” it all was and how the killer was some kind of “superhero.” And you think, “What?” And you wonder how much more of a superhero the killer might have been if he had murdered ten people. A hundred?
And maybe that’s something to shoot for, if you’ll pardon the expression, for the next guy looking for a novel way to have his grievances aired. Won’t that be exciting?
(Thumbnail on PJM homepage assembled from multiple Shutterstock.com images.)
Thanks for the behind the scenes glimpse. I was having a hard time understanding how in the world a couple cops would fire so much lead into a passing pickup truck with two newspaper ladies. While not defensible, it at least makes sense to me now. Waiting around under cover of darkness in fear of a crazed killer with heavy police/military training and possible .50 cal rounds and no moral restraint can take its toll. Thanks for hanging in and doing the kind of work I could never do.
really? understand? there is absolutey no excuse for that attempted execution. the cops who did that should be charged with two counts each of attempted homocide. just because one has a badge does not entitle then to shoot indiscriminately
You were there? Or just shooting your mouth off “indiscriminately”?
Hint: RoboCop doesn’t exist. It was just a movie.
how many of the idiots second guessing “jack dunphy” and the other cops involved have ever strapped on a gun to make their living, and walked out of their front door in a uniform that makes them a target, then to hear the “one of your own” has gone berserkergang, targeting cops, and their families. some of you even calling him a “superhero”. you disgust me, you’re beyond stupid. i’m not a police officer, past or present, but i’ve worked armed, ferrying money, sometimes millions of dollars at a time in your towns, and watching for the “do it yourself socialist” looking for his payday. not the level of stress jack describes by several orders of magnitude, but when i looked at you i was thinking “be polite, be professional, and be ready…” and the pistol on my duty belt was loaded with a round chambered. yes, mistakes were made, people suffered, they will be compensated. others died, and how do you compensate a grieving widow for her empty bed, or father burying his daughter in the springtime of her youth. the police did what they had to do, and a madman died, in the end, by his own hand. just shut up the second guessing, let the police tend their wounded and bury, and mourn their dead in peace.
There’s no justification for opening fire without a certain ID. If your threshold is below that, and you think to do otherwise puts you at risk, find another job. I’m not taking any rounds cuz someone thinks everyone’s Dorner.
Discipline the cops and re-train them.
Blame Dorner.
He created this situation, thought it up, obviously, to maximize suffering for others. Too bad we live in a world filled with perverse nobodies who get off on fantasizing that they’re identifying with a racist, lying murderer.
no doubt the police made a big error. But understand if they went up to the car and politely asked for ID, and it was Dorner, the police officer would be dead. So asking for ID in that situation was not the best solution. I think that;s why you are not a police officer. Neither am I but I have family on the force. They seldom see the good side of life. In this case the police may have been a bit trigger happy.
jschmidt,
It is their job to take those risks. People outside the force cannot be expected to know about the situation or take any precautions.
Asking for ID “wasn’t the solution”, but that is why we give the police so many tools, and why God gave us brains and megaphones.
friendly message
The correct response to this sort of situation, unfortunately, is a military one, not a police one.
In a military context, if a car that somewhat matches the description you’re looking for comes at you, with lights off, you announce loud and clear: “Halt or I’ll shoot”. (Given that it might be him, you say it from behind cover.) And if the vehicle doesn’t stop, you shoot out the tires… and then approach with extreme caution.
I can sort of understand why the policemen on duty that night didn’t do that; they’re tasked with keeping the peace, and they didn’t want to alarm an entire neighborhood with that kind of thing. But because they didn’t, two innocent women got shot. I’d like to think that, if they could do it over, they would have made a different choice.
They have bullhorns and sirens. They can order the windows rolled down and hands put out the window from a safe distance. Surely they can come up with something other than opening fire without a sure ID.
But were the lights off? And, if so, why? Was it dark enough to be alarming, in and of itself?
Unfortunately, all law enforcement now view the protection of themselves and their pensions as being paramount, and because we have way too many cops of all kinds, we are seeing more and more officers lower and lower on the bell curve.
They ain’t all Wyatt Earp. Some officers I’ve seen walking through NYC wouldn’t have been meter maids back in the day.
I’m sure the top ten or fifteen percent would are as good as any cops have ever been (and probably carry 90% of the load, too), but that bottom 10% have guns, too.
And they shouldn’t.
And hindsight is always….
I have to confess that I’m a bit upset by the ladies delivering the newspapers who got shot, even so. Yes, I understand that there was an enormous amount of pressure, and yes I know everyone was on edge. I also believe this had to do with the fact that *police officers and their families* were under threat, as opposed to someone else. As far as I understand, it’s pretty rare that something like this happens, and cops protect witnesses and people who are threatened constantly. Part of the Marshall’s service doesn’t do anything else but protect witnesses. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of 2 people wandering into something like this before, with their vehicle winding up looking like the Bonnie & Clyde death car. Reportedly other vehicles and a couple of nearby houses, presumably with people in them sleeping, were hit by the gunfire. Since the truck wasn’t like Dorner’s, and the women inside it looked nothing like him (admittedly it was dark, but still) it seems like an over-reaction.
And there’s another issue. What if it *had* been Dorner in that truck? There were over 40 bullet holes in it (according to their attorney) and they both *survived*. I’ll agree it’s good for the women that they did, but on the other hand, if Dorner had been in there, I think he’d have killed someone before going down…as it was, he did in Big Bear. It seems harsh to say, but I think the department needs to pay more attention to teaching its cops to shoot, and also to fire discipline, so that they don’t just empty their magazines when they perceive a threat.
News reports I read said the newspaper delivery truck was same make, model and color of suspect’s, contrary to what you’ve claimed. Were they wrong? And IF the vehicle had been the guy he’d have been a hurt puppy unable to do much further damage so your point is weak.
You got it wrong Bill one was a Nissan Titan the other a Toyota Tacoma.
And while both may have been called blue by the DMV, one was a dark grayish silver blue and the other a robin’s egg blue.
The vehicles look nothing alike and were the wrong make and model never mind the make and model–and gender and quantity–of the occupants was all wrong.
“And IF the vehicle had been the guy he’d have been a hurt puppy unable to do much further damage so your point is weak.”
So you are saying that not only do the ends justify the means, but the perceived ends justify the means. Heck, with that kind of logic we could have just accessed the DMV database and nuked from orbit every town where a truck similar to Dorner’s was registered. Who cares who the authorities take out in the process of solving a problem so long as the problem gets solved…amiright? Better yet, lets just have the authorities run rampant and kill everyone on the planet that way Dorner doesn’t get a chance to “do much further damage”. If everyone is already dead, Dorner’s ability to commit further crimes against the person becomes impossible.
The bottom line is that there are infinite possible solutions to every problem especially when the goal is expressed as some ephemeral platitude like preventing further damage. However, in civilized society, those solutions are typically parsed down by restrictions on certain acceptable actions and, of course, the biggest restriction of all: that the solution cause less harm than the problem.
But hey, so long as you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to worry about, right? That is, unless you happen to be driving a vehicle similar to a fugitive’s. In that case, may God have mercy upon your soul because the LAPD sure won’t.
–As an aside, given the lady’s age, perhaps the LAPD are moonlighting as Obamacare cost-cutting agents–
“And you say, “What?””
Why say “What?”, the LAPD is the sort of pack of animals that ventilates two different vehicles which don’t particularly resemble Dorner’s, bearing occupants who resemble him not at all–so it’s clear Dorner’s beef with them is that they didn’t let him in on their racket.
This exonerative apologia was expected from the likes of Dunphy.
The police firing on either of those vehicles should be arraigned for attempted murder, and by rights they should do the maximum time for it, there is no more excuse for their behavior than that they are animals with badges.
Thanks for your oh so eloquent statement. I am glad to hear how much you hate the police. You sir, are a tool.
Dunphy apologized for no one. He showed what kind of pressure the people were under and expressed gratitude that it wan’t him. Why? Because he knows that they will likely end up in jail and should but there, except for the grace of God, goes he. He didn’t say they should be excused but you have to use this as an excuse to vent your hatred for “animals with badges.” God, I get sick of you assholes who use any and every excuse to tar all cops with the brush of your biases.
No, this was an apologia by Dunphy. There is no amount of pressure which excuses choosing to open fire, missing even the vehicle that many time without even checking to see if it is the target’s vehicle, on top of which you haven’t so much as looked at the people you are firing at.
Two elderly white women in the wrong vehicle. That’s who they lit up. There is no excuse for it.
I should presume from his long useless post Dunphy is hopeful of the police union getting them off scot free. If he feels differently, he would have written a different post.
Do I hate police? With the recent welcome exception of certain sheriffs declaring they will not participate in violating the 2nd amendment, I know of little wrong with the country the police as a rule have not agreed to take a paycheck to maintain with force. They are not better than the laws they uphold, and too often are worse.
Here, they were far worse. A handful of them were no better than Dorner, and so far they are all okay with that. I haven’t heard any of them say anything to the contrary.
Including, to look at what he offers us here, Mr. Dunphy.
Always struck me as ironic that we hold 19-year-old Soldiers and Marines to such higher standards. Lighting up a car full of unarmed women? – probably court martials for the shooters and a career-ender for their platoon commander.
Maybe the Army needs a union.
The army having a union would solve the supposed “problem” of the military being the most publicly trusted institution of government.
causticf,
If this were an “isolated incident”, that is to say, a extraordinarily rare and unusual amount of undisciplined, inaccurate, ineffective amount of poorly controlled gunfire, at unarmed non-threatening citizens, I would agree with you…
But its not.
This is what the police DO with firearms….they painfully demonstrate time after time they simply cant hit a f*cking thing they point their guns at. It happens all over the country. Its so common its cliché’ anymore. Everyone opens up, nobody hits a thing, move along folks, nothing to see here.
I counted 37 holes in that pickup truck, and there were probably just AS many shots that missed it altogether….and notice that nice house directly in their line of fire?
Undisciplined, inaccurate, uncalled for, inexcusably BAD WEAPONS HANDLING SKILLS, period, end of story.
The “suspects” were unarmed and escaped virtually unscathed…. one took a single bullet, the other hurt by broken glass…at least two 15 round magazines, PLUS 7 shotgun slugs the “miss ratio” is 97.2 %
And its not exclusive to this particular “manhunt”, is a common occurrence when police draw their weapons anymore. Its utterly indefensible no matter who tries selling it, or what the circumstances were.
Any private citizen who “fired up the neighborhood” in such a manner , while repelling an ACTUAL armed assault on their home would be in JAIL right now and you know it. If we so much as fire a SINGLE SHOT that’s at all “questionable”, at a fleeing or GOD FORBID “unidentified” suspect, Prosecutors are SALIVATING at the opportunity to nail us.
So spare us the excuses.
We’re tired of our “servants” repeatedly demonstrating they are not up to the task.
Bottom line is, you guys shouldn’t BE armed, because you cant HANDLE the responsibility.
That goes for Officer Chris Dorner, AND the Officers chasing him.
I’ve always thought the adrenaline surge LEOs receive from their duties is a huge factor in firearm inaccuracy during “hot” operations. Like after an intense car chase, most cops can’t hit a barn until they reload. Just saying.
Yeah, thats a relatively “recent” phenomenon, exacerbated by high-capacity autoloaders…
When the mental/emotional character of your manpower base is less than stellar, more available bullets can be detrimental.
M-16’s were changed from Full Auto to three shot burst in my tenure in the Corps, because of “what happened” in Viet-nam…namely, Low Information Draftees and shoddy training….empty the mag, hit nothing…over heat the barrel, cook off the lube, and run out right when you need it most.
In a third world sh*t-hole, that kind of behavior is one thing…On an American Street, its another.
Cops are still trying to get back to the “hit ratio” they had with wheel-guns, but given the current state of “the state” I don’t thinks that’s possible.
They accept +70% miss ratios with a hundred or more shots fired as “the norm” these days.
Yeah, its pathetic, but its not going to change as long as they have a Union, and suck politicians cranks.
I am with Tom on this one. Had these officers been Federal Agents they would have been fired for indiscipline. Had they been military LEOs they would be on their way to an Article 32 hearing and Court Martial. I understand the pressure that the police were under however that is the time for maximum self discipline. Shooting the two women is a sympton of poor training.
“Had these officers been Federal Agents they would have been fired for indiscipline”
No they wouldnt.
Their agency would make the same excuses the Police are making right now…
While sending Uniformed Officers to act as backdrops at Political Events designed to strip ME of MY rights.
Because its all the Gun Lobby, and The NRA, dontcha know?
Cops and Criminals…same threat of stray bullets from wild and uncontolled gunfire.
Except ONE has the Political Weight to call for MY dissarmament…
So who’s the BIGGER threat?
You are wrong about the Feds. Federal law enforcement agencies operate more like military organizations than you think. They hate indiscipline and if you screw up like this you are done. Don’t confuse the ATF or DEA exectuing a valid warrant in the wrong place. The individual agents will skate but the guys who sent them their might as well resign because their careers just dead ended.
“The individual agents will skate but the guys who sent them their might as well resign because their careers just dead ended”
Umm….Seriously?
No one gets burned, ever.
They get PROMOTED.
The “individual agents” are the ones who released the barrage of 50-70-125 bullets at UNARMED suspects (as has happened all to often) and STILL only manage 3-6 hits (as has happened all too often) how is allowing them to “skate” NOT a horrific injustice? NOT an incentive for the whole agency to continue to behave so badly?
Its the “individual agents” who perpetrated this utter failure of Decision Making, Marksmanship and Fire Control Discipline, and thus they are MORE culpable than any Administrative Failure, not LESS.
I’ve been a Firearms Instructor for over 30 years.
I am generally loathe to second guess the NEED of anyone to draw a weapon in circumstances I was not present at.
That being said, I’m fully capable of recognizing these astonishingly incompetent, CRIMINALLY NEGLEGENT uses of Deadly Force for what they are…..a complete and total lack of “reasonable” professional skill, by morons who shouldn’t be allowed to drive CARS, let alone handle Firearms.
And my experience has taught me it is an INSTITUTIONAL problem that is making these events more common. The Brass are typically:
A) Too ashamed of the Officers performance as it reflects poorly on the entire culture, so ”it never happened” and firearms COMPETENCY can thus never part of the story. The Media is normally compliant with this, as they hate private ownership of guns too. Cant have “the only ones who should be armed” look incompetent WITH them, now can we?
B) They just don’t f*cking CARE if their Officers shoot up the neighborhood, because they are Statists, displaying the Supreme and Unquestionable Dominion over their Turf, where we, the Peons just happen to live (at their mercy, of course). Intimidation is a GOOD thing for them. The Media is normally compliant with this, as they are Statist too, and Firearms COMPETENCY will never be part of the story.
C) Only if a “racial component” causes enough “political hay” to be made from a bad shoot, will the officers ever be indicted …and then only on some “unprovable charges” that require “intent” like assault, attempted murder, 1st or 2nd degree homicide…In those cases, the R.O.I. and Training Doctrine will always (by design) cover their “decision to shoot” and again, their actual COMPETENCY IN EMPLOYMENT of Deadly Force is never part of the equation.
The woefully poor decision making and actual INSTITUTIONAL INCOMPETENCY WITH FIREARMS gets lost (by design) in the Riots and Recriminations of the (most likely) Acquittal Process, and the whole thing whether they are convicted or NOT, becomes a convenient “white culture against minorities” story, rather than what is really is:
The simultaneous Failure AND Impunity of The State, with regard to the Reasonable Employment of Weaponry against the Citizen.
That will NEVER be part of the dialog, no matter the event or agency involved Federal, State, or Local.
Period.
We are ALL expendable, even the Officers pulling the trigger, to keep that so.
Don’t compare a screw up with somethng like Fast and Furious which was sanctioned at the highest levels. You are conflating local LEOs with Federal Agents. I am a member at range where a lot feds show up. You can always tell by their tight groupings who they are. Federal LEOs are well trained and very disciplined with their use of firearms. The actually have to qualify on a regular basis and they practice a lot. Same with military policeman.
I wasted 6 monthes of my life as IC integree at the FBI. I didn’t like most of them but I found them to be skilled professionals.
I am sorry that we been diverted from the original intent of my post. We are in agreement with the lack of skill and indiscipline of the LAPD and many other corrupt big city police departments.
I was with the NRA’s “Law Enforcement Activities Division” for 15 years before I went exclusively to training private CCW holders.
Been to many “Instructor Development Courses” with “students” from many Fed Agencies and Metro PD’s….All I can say, is Stupid is as stupid does.
Seen plenty of “stupidity” on range from all of them…
scary, bad tactics, crazy “lawsuit/tragedy waiting to happen” stuff they called “training”….
…in addition to “nuanced” grip and draw techniques that evolved from “IPSC/game” shooters to lower sight planes and control recoil on specialty, muzzle compensated, optic sighted “game guns”, but one that doesn’t “think about” the initial weapon grab, retention, grappling, and the like.
Basically, anyone who holds a combat handgun like a f*cking GOLF CLUB (and you all know what technique I mean, right?) is an ignoramus thats never FOUGHT with one before. Anyone who TEACHES that, or some of these “advanced” overly complex fumble-thumb “tactical reloads”, from the world of “stopwatch-n-trophy”, is an even greater threat to the world.
And sadly, this goes for 90% of all departments, who TEACH this useless crap right out of the Academy.
Witness the results of Police Shootings vs Private Citizens.
Find me JUST ONE incident of a 3-magazine hit nothing “self defense” shooting in the private sector, I’ll find you 20 by the Police.
That’s why I only work with “real shooters” anymore, not cops. My students are not only more likely to NEED these skills, (cops don’t GET mugged) they will EMPLOY them more proficiently than the Criminally Immunized Union Bums that fire up everything in sight, with ZERO potential for any PERSONAL lawsuits regarding their “competency”.
Cops are neither good or bad they are just cops. Some are good others are not. Police forces are as good or bad as people in general and only reflect the nature of the cities they serve.
And according my father, a prewar regular and airborne cadre, the only proper way to hold a pistol is with one hand.
WOW…..disturbing real life Drama.What’s with the killer worshipers though? A mentally ill fight or flight reaction,expressing their fear and shock by acting out against the good guys,they should be ashamed!UNBELIEVABLE! And to think that such examples of the mentally damaged left would parade themselves so, in alliance with such a monster!The left is certainly too far gone to salvage!
“The left is certainly too far gone to salvage!”
Yes, but so is the police force Dorner was once among. It should be disbanded, and re-formed accountable to a directly elected sheriff, and none re-hired with any preference or seniority. Shall issue and open carry should be imposed on California as the constitution mandates; as opposed to the police, that might do some good–and to Chicago, too. Perhaps also NYC.
http://www.redstate.com/dloesch/2013/02/17/chicago-police-chief-second-amendment-is-a-danger-to-public-safety/
Dorner had no beef with the LAPD. He was on probation with a training officer when a suspect supposedly got kicked. Dorner didn’t bring it up til that same training officer gave him a negative grade a month later. THEN Dorner spoke about it. Witnesses didn’t back Dorner up. Being still only a provisional police officer, Dorner was easy to fire and probably should’ve been. Dorner was nuts, with a heightened sense of his own worth and a persecution complex. His murders and silly manifesto prove that without a doubt.
Yeah, but for a lot of people it’s easier to hate cops than to face facts.
(I do think the LAPD could use some training on fire discipline. The shooting at the truck was blind panic. I guess the bright side of that is that it was ineffective fire…)
Yeah, I’m sure those NINE citizens struck by stray bullets in NYC feel the same about catching Bloomberg Nanny State Police Lead, in THEIR latest Weapons Skill Demo in Manhattan
“So, I’d be DEAD if they were BETTER?”
WTF?
100% agreement Tom.
Rule four of gun safety: “Always be sure of your target.”
What we had here was a negligent discharge. No other way to categorize it. Jail time is in order for the perpetrators. And lot’s of taxpayer cash to the victims because two idiots in blue lost control of themselves and their weapons.
And yep, Mr. Dunphy 50 caliber rifles are pretty powerful – I’ve shot them. And they are protected for civilian ownership by the Constitution you swore to uphold when you got your badge. If you’ve got a problem with that at least show the courage of your convictions and resign. How do you think your employers (we civilians) like our employees having full auto weapons when we (at least here in Cali) cannot? So-called officers of the law demonstrate that they cannot be trusted all too often. We feel that feeling you’re describing every, damn, day, Jack.
Gee, isn’t it nice that cops get protective details when threatened?
Too bad “civilians” can’t hope for the same when someone threatens them. No can anyone stage a manhunt for the individual threatening them. What a screwed up world.
Actually, protective details are arranged for many people. What’s required? Being threatened. This time it was cops who were threatened, and only a dense person would deny the validity of the threat Dorner posed.
So if a woman is threatened by her psycho ex, who has already beaten her to pulp once, the cops will be there, eh?
You think people put themselves in prison or is the idea they’re all innocent marijuana smokers who shouldn’t be there?
I am sure grateful for when they get it right. But that shouldn’t protect them when the eff it up.
Kicking the wrong doors, dead pets, shooting up the wrong effing trucks – those should be the end of a cop’s career, if not the beginning of a jail term.
Lots of cops end up on the dead end of domestic violence cases trying to protect people while you piss and whine from behind a pathetic fake name. First one to cry for help if you’re threatened, I imagine.
Here’s what to say to this woman being beaten, again: leave him. Don’t blame the cops, blame the beater. And blame the woman who sticks around for it, too. She’s putting everyone in danger — for her feelings.
All the people here whining about the police should voluntarily exempt themselves from calling them for help.
And then take a long, hard look at your daughters, mothers, and wives and think about what could happen to them if the police weren’t there to protect them.
“All the people here whining about the police should voluntarily exempt themselves from calling them for help”
Well, since they wont ever GET anywhere in time to STOP a violent act, what exactly IS the difference if we call or not?
We’re on our own no matter what, call or no call.
They know it too.
They don’t CARE if you die. Its not their JOB to protect you.
So Spare the Dime, and Spend the Lead, people.
Only problem is, it makes them look bad when you do…
So WATCH OUT for the frivolous prosecutions they’ll use to soothe the exposed nerve of their publicly displayed incompetence and ineffectiveness.
Cops and criminals are equal threats…you need to be prepared for BOTH.
Not nearly as many cops end up dead in domestic disputes as women. Not nearly as many cops are killed as convenience store clerks.
I am not saying that I want that outcome. Or that Dorner got anything but what he deserved; he was murderous vermin and deserved to die.
But that doesn’t give the cops open season on every truck they think LOOKS the one the perp is driving. You don’t open fire on ANYTHING until it is identified. The cops who shot up those truck and wounded those people deserve to be in jail. If they can’t control themselves and show as much restrain as our troops in Trashcanistan, they need to find a different job.
I also find it a bit screwed up how much effort cops put into protecting their own and offing Dorner ’cause he killed some of their own and threatened more. Would they got to that much trouble if someone killed me and threatened my family? Would they cut me some slack because I shot up a car that looked my wife’s ex’s vehicle that was cruising down my street?
Somehow, I don’t think so…
Thanks, Tina. You said it better than I could.
Oh, and Horrible Harry forgets that Ms. Was-Beaten is routinely offered relocation to a secret shelter.
It’s so easy to (legally) buy military grade weapons in LA. And if you are threatened, the cops and DA won’t mind if you shoot up random people on the highway.
No different rules for some.
Hahah. I’d be making my own list. Any celebrity supporting Dorner would get me to answer their 911 call after about a week. How’s that for a data base?
MC Lyte. How about MC moron? And Lamont Hill would be completely invisible to me.
Are prospective LEOs unaware of the potential risks of the job when they sign up? Are they not aware that they will have to deal with the mentally disturbed and some of the most unstable and dangerous people in our society? Do they not understand that the risk of injury and death are part of the job?
These people are often referred to as “heroes” who give selflessly in order to serve and protect the people. We give them the authority to detain, incarcerate and use force up to and including deadly force in the execution of their duties. It seems to me to be not unreasonable to expect them to actually act with courage and exercise enough good judgement to not open up with a hail of bullets whenever they feel threatened.
I expect people who are given such power and authority to be able to withstand the pressures of the job. I expect them to take seriously the promise to “serve and protect”. I expect them to prepare themselves for possible physical confrontation with dangerous people and stay prepared for as long as they are on the front lines and in harm’s way.
If LEO’s do not understand that they have volunteered to confront lunacy and evil that will sometimes turn violent; if they don’t understand that they have volunteered to put their lives and physical well-being between the citizenry and those who have chosen to prey on that citizenry and that this may result in injury or death; if they find themselves unable to cope with the pressure and stress of the job then they should get into some other line of work.
If you don’t show a little gratitude you will have fewer people signing up to be LEOs and then you may have to do the job of confronting lunatics and such yourself.
Of course that means you will get to be a selfless hero, which I’m sure is what you want /s.
LEOs are human beings.
Cops are Union Bums…With Guns.
A Lifetime of Salary, for 20 years worth of “work”
While we, the private citizens, confront (and defeat) more criminals with the judicious and EFFECTIVE use of Firearms, by several orders of magnitude greater than them, ever single year.
Only to have these “servants” trying to disarm us at every turn.
Cops and criminals are the same thing to me and my family….
A threat to our safety, peace and prosperity.
While we, the private citizens, confront (and defeat) more criminals with the judicious and EFFECTIVE use of Firearms, by several orders of magnitude greater than them, ever single year.
How many criminals did you defeat in the last year? Betcha Dunphy has you beat.
How many drunk drivers did you pull off the road — and I’m referring to people who are actually a danger not some poor shmuck who hits .081 percent BAC at a sobriety checkpoint? How many strangers did you inform of the death of a loved one? How many people did you have vomit on you? How many decayed bodies have you come across after someone noticed mail wasn’t being picked up?
Considering that some actually want to make this POS Dorner a hero, this is probably not the time or place to indulge in cop hating.
We were talking about firearms competency but since you asked…
Former US Marine, cop, weapons instructor, Gunsmith, Bail bondsman, Engineer.
I’m not the Smartest guy alive, just a mean old bird who really only know 2 things better than Einstein….
Shitheads in and out of uniforms, and the tools they fight with.
And I never fired more than 5 rounds “for real” in any given moment, because I never NEEDED to.
Its called “competency”.
Emptying a magazine, reloading and emptying another, with NO VIABLE TARGET IN MY SIGHTS is professionally and MORALLY inconceivable. The risk it would present to others, when I cant even be sure I’m protecting MYSELF from anything “threatening” , makes such a concept inexcusable
Just one of them funky “self evident” truths Dad and America put in my DNA, I just cant seem to shake it no matter how many f*cked up incompetent people drag down “the average”.
Guns are serious.
Deal with them appropriately , or go home.
If you want/need The Government Tit THAT bad, go be a Garbage Man or a School Teacher.
Leave the Guns alone. You obviously cant handle them.
As for “some poor shmuck who hits .081 percent BAC at a sobriety checkpoint” thats the WHOLE POINT of DUI enforcement. Its the best low risk/high $$$ reward departments have. They’re not after drunks, their after REVENUE.
Actually, I wasn’t talking about firearm competency. I was talking about the people we hire to do necessary but sh*t work because most people really don’t want to do it.
And LEOs certainly aren’t beyond criticism but no way I’m going to do it on a thread that might lead some to think what that f-wad Dorner did was even in the teeneyist, tiniest, most abstract way justifiable.
And you’re right about sobriety checkpoints but hopefully you understand the need for there to be a method under the law to get some blind-smashed moron off the road even if he should not want to.
So are little Hispanic ladies delivering newspapers.
We would go to jail for a “mistake” like that. Why don’t the cops?
Those risks are actually massively overstated. Every year, OSHA releases rates of injuries on the job and deaths on the jobs, broken down by profession. Police are yet to break into the top ten of either list.
Stress-related problems (such as suicide and divorce) are big problems for cops, as are traffic accidents. Murder, not so much, because they are armed both on and off duty.
Sitting here safe and warm in my living room I’ve been trying to put myself in those Cop’s position.I can’t.
I can; I was raised on a dairy farm. For every police officer killed, we lose 1.8 farmers and ranchers; for me it happened right down the road to a classmate of mine. Another classmate had his arm ripped off. We don’t call for a “specaialized farmer safety team” every time we have to engage around dangerous, high pto speed machinery. We do our jobs and don’t bitch about it. Nor do we ask for any safety equipment that isn’t available to any non-farmer.
No trouble imagining it here.
This article is a fairly good portrait of paranoia. The same paranoia under which my family lived and died in Communist Poland. One aunt who was in the underground resistance was shot and killed – the US family was informed in the last letter received before the Iron Curtain fell. We don’t know what happened to the rest.
I visited Poland after she broke free from her chains and the paranoia was still palpable. It was in the air everywhere. The conversations barely above a whisper. The perpetually downcast eyes. The furtive glances.
It is where we are headed. And the union-backed cops I saw at the Michigan rally against sanity in government don’t give me the impression that they care one whit about me and mine.
Dorner is the product of a God-hating society, as are those who embrace him.
Hang in their Jack and God bless you.
The vast, vast, vast majority of us are on your side.
Cops look after themselves first and foremost, not the people they are suppose to be protecting. The idiots who shot up those two pickups should be locked up just like any normal citizen who might pull the same stunt. Jack you are full of shit just like your pals.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.nl/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00-07:00&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00-07:00&max-results=6
Tom
Ya, got point…thing is..I wonder if you actually read the article at all?
If you had yo umight have grasped that the author was trying to get people to have some little understanding of what it might be like to be a “target.”
Upshot….and your NOT wrong BTW…..the folks that shot the wrong people/cars should be treated just like anyone else. BUT, you knew there was a “but” coming.
I wonder if you would have done the same thing–I wonder how any of us would react. Presuming of course that many people reading this would be willing to risk getting shot to death to protect people whom seem to often hate them…..all for much less cash than you could make doing something safer.
How about ordering pick up trucks off of the roads? there’s been a wealth of dihonest posts on this. “I’m not excusing this, But….I am”. We correctly call out the Left for this dishonesty. If your rules of engagement are to shoot the crap out of pick up trucks, and it obviously was in at least two cases, it would be nice to share that information with the peasants.Then, if someone gets shot, you can warm up your ‘but” statements and tack onto it, “well we did warn them”. Instead, the victims of the shooting get treated to being told that they contributed to the pressure that the cops were under by committing the crime of delivering newspapers.
When I first heard about this unfortunate incident, I had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. It’s very difficult to say how you would react if you had a crazed murderer stalking you and your fellow officers and it was the dead of night and someone is approaching in a vehicle with the lights turned off. That in no possible way excuses what happened. Given that same exact set of circumstances, I cannot guarantee how I would act… and I doubt others would know how they would react unless they had already been exposed to the same set of circumstances. I would hope I would have more restraint than they did.
I would lay the blame firstly on Chris Dorner, if he hadn’t tipped over the edge and started murdering innocent people, I doubt the women would have been shot. Unfortunately, in this case, the officers acted rashly but fortunately, the women will survive. Can’t say the same for Dorner’s victims.
And not ONE single “Krazed Killa Kop” headline, even from the usually-reliable NY Post.
I am depressed.
Fear….
Back in the day, that was not that uncommon a thing….in fact it had a name…”a mad minute”…often initiated by one guy…sometimes an accidental discharge….seconds later everybody is blowing their wallet, not just down range but everywhere….
Part of that is the false assumption that fire will make the other guy duck….
My instant reaction on seeing the shot up truck….idots…panic….
What I also find interesting is the folks crying about Dorner not recieving his “due process”.
With all the bungling by the LAPD would you really another OJ show trial with people declaring “We won!!!” when he gets off because someone bungled something or got accused of being a racist?
No thanks. I’m satisfied with the fact that he decided to eat a bullet.
Thanks, Jack.
For all of it.
I’m generally not a huge fan of most police as I consider most of them bullies with a badge, at least that’s been my personal experience as recently as last New Year’s Eve bullied as innocent bystander, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But I also recognize we can’t do without police either and it would be unfair of me to brand all cops as bad because they aren’t. We hear about the bad ones, while the good ones seldom make the news.
I’m flabbergasted at some people’s reaction to this story.
When a crazed bastard is threatening to not only kill you but your spouse and your children, I’m willing to give some necessary slack, just as I am willing to give a whole lot of leniency to our military in the heat of battle.
We have a damn sick society that would root on a cold blooded murderer, I don’t care what his grievance. I was hoping the SOB was burned alive in that house. As to this useful idiots like Marc Lamont Hill? If there’s justice, Hill will be struck dead on a talk show by lightning or stray bullet, his stupid s__t eating grin the last thing we see before he hits the floor.
Problem is, the “good ones” seem to protect the “bad ones,” so how are we to tell the difference? Why aren’t the “good cops” hanging the idiots who shot up the ladies and their truck out to dry? Responsible folks don’t shoot at something they haven’t identified.
Cops seem to have looser Rules of Engagement against us than the US Military does in Afghanistan. Thank God they don’t have artillery or air strikes.
Yet.
Indeed. Had an ordinary citizen done this he’d be in jail now, facing two murder charges, along with an assortment of lesser charges like reckless endangerment, unlawful discharge of a firearm, and so on.
What do we hear about these two cowards?
Crickets.
I wouldn’t call ‘em cowards.
Keyed up. Vindictive. Trigger happy. Incompetent. Irresponsible.
But not cowardly.
I’ve read “Jack Dunphy”‘s articles for years, and he always writes well, giving insight in the life of an LAPD cop. But he dismisses the actions in Torrance and Redondo Beach too quickly for me, stating only the feeling that he is glad it wasn’t him. I’d appreciate his elaboration and experienced speculation on what he thinks will happen next, subjects for a separate essay, not the purpose of this one. For the above comments, I have some corrections: It was not two elderly white ladies, it was a middle aged filipina (American) and her elderly mother, the latter being shot twice, not once, and was hospitalized in critical condition, both of them residents of Torrance. Also there is a common misconception that “it was dark”. This is a neighborhood I am familiar with, it was just before dawn for the Torrance shooting, and in a brightly lit by streetlights neighborhood, not dark. For the Redondo Beach shooting, it was already getting light and it too was in a brightly lit area. I appreciate the police, the oath they take, and for the vast majority, their intention to serve and protect. These shootings are completely indefensible. If they are not prosecuted fully, which I am fully counting on, then it will inevitably and absolutely cause me to completely lose trust, which at this point, living here, is quite badly shaken. The authorities in this matter work for me and the rest of the civilian population, we are the boss. They had better serve and protect us by doing the right thing, followed by what appears to be a massive retraining and restructuring. I am expecting that this will and should go right up the chain of command for taking responsibility and assigning consequences, not just the actual shooters.
Thanks, JD, for posting this in spite of the crazies and idiots. As a long time reader have been waiting for your take and figured you had been put on one of those details. Glad, too, it wasn’t you in Torrance. Those guys and their families have a tough row ahead of them, personally and professionally.
Is the timing in your post accurate? I had the Torrance shooting occurring a day earlier than the Corona and Riverside episodes. Am I wrong?
….and people think ‘preppers’ are crazy….
So take up this scenario in the context of being prepared. You immediately realize you can’t do it by yourself, so you start talking to your friends and family. They, of course, think you are crazy and want nothing to do with you. You try talking to your neighbors and realize that some of them can’t be trusted for a variety of reasons. That’s when you realize just how screwed you are, or could be.
That’s when the paranoia really ramps up and you begin to wonder if this isn’t an isolated incident. Perhaps not necessarily an organized coordinated conspiracy but something along the lines of ‘if we apply the proper stimulus, someone somewhere will act out in a predictable manner’ with the whole idea being the destruction of trust within the community.
Or perhaps this is just the way life is, has always been, and we’ve be fortunate to not have to think about any of it.
Don’t ask me, I don’t have a clue /sold out, more expected next month.
Doesn’t seem to be many trustworthy people nowadays, in or out of uniform.
I feel sorry for the cops on these details. I would hope I would do better. These cops however have shown that they are not competent to handle a stressful situation and need to not be cops at the very least.
As citizens they need to be held to AT LEAST the same standards as private citizens and really much more because they are supposed to be trained for such things.
I’m trying to sympathize here but I have to pay for training and ammo out of my own pocket. You on the other hand, have had the benefit of thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of training and trigger time, all on the tax payers dime. I wonder how the two taxpayers in the blue pickup feel about their return on investment?