U.S. Ammo Shortage? Don’t Blame Mexican Cartels (Updated)
Pajamas Media recently published an article by Todd Bensman (“Mexican Cartels Binge on American Bullets“) that bears discussing. While it makes an attempt to link high civilian ammunition demand here in the United States to violent crime performed south of the border by Mexican drug cartels, the article — and similar echoes adopted by the Obama administration and sympathetic journalists — is flawed.
5.7×28 ammunition is not “cop killer” ammunition, and its reputation as such among drug smugglers and gullible members of the media — the same media that dutifully reported Glock pistols were plastic “terrorist guns” that could evade metal detectors — is entirely unearned.
The armor-piercing steel core version (SS190) will only penetrate lesser soft body armor of Level IIA or lower, and will not penetrate Level III soft armor worn by most police agencies. It also certainly will not penetrate Level IV armor worn by military units, or armor equipped with soft or hard ballistic inserts or plates, or even Level IIA armor struck obliquely.
Further, SS 190 is not for sale to civilians in the United States, at any price, and the military and police agencies eligible to buy it largely ignore the round entirely due to poor terminal performance. Despite all the marketing, all the rumors, and all the hype, the 5.7×28 (muzzle velocity 2,050 fps, muzzle energy 255 ft-lbs) performs roughly the same as the .22 magnum (muzzle velocity 2,200 fps, muzzle energy 322 ft-lbs). I would prefer to never be shot, but if I ever were, I’d rather be shot with a 5.7×28 armor-piercing “cop killer” bullet than any standard centerfire handgun caliber commonly used in this country.
If any SS190 rounds are in the hands of cartels, odds are they are purchasing them from members of the Mexican law enforcement and military communities who see a chance to make a profit, and perhaps would rather be shot by this anemic cartridge in any of its loadings, instead of facing far more effective and proven rounds, such as all centerfire rifle ammunition and the overwhelming majority of common pistol calibers, such as 9mm, 40S&W, 357 SIG, 45ACP, and 38 Super.
Authors that choose to write about this subject should make a serious effort to separate the ammunition being purchased because of cartel use in Mexico from the vast majority of ammunition being purchased by and for Americans.
Do I hear an echo?
clear ether
eon
Media claims that Mexican cartels are outfitting themselves with “assault weapons” purchased in the U.S. have a similar smell of un-researched excrement for 3 reasons.
1. Walk into any gunshop and try to buy an AR-15 or and similar type of rifle. There aren’t any there – they sold them all. Try to buy any rifle they do have, or order one they can obtain. In any state in the country, there is a background check with the Feds and most states. Foreigners need not apply.
2. I know liberals often don’t believe this but, the evil looking AR-15′s and AK’s sold in the U.S. are semi-auto only and are difficult to convert to full-auto. What self-respecting drug lord wants that?
3. Cartels are (illegal) businesses. Like any businesses, they try really hard not to overpay for equipment. Why pay U.S. retail prices and taxes when there are so many cheaper alternatives? As the author mentioned, elements of the Mexican Army and Police will sell to them wholesale. Plenty of real military hardware is also easily available in Central and South America.
Aw, c’mon, this “Authors that choose to write about this subject should make a serious effort to separate the ammunition being purchased because of cartel use in Mexico from the vast majority of ammunition being purchased by and for Americans” would be just too hard…whine, whimper.
What this country needs is 22,000 “common sense” censorship laws. Certain words ought to be heavily regulated because certain people in history have used those words to kill millions of innocent people, and the use of these words by people who have not yet killed those same millions, but certainly will if these words are not regulated out of existence…
I know this is crazy…but if drugs were legalized, the cartels wouldn’t have any reason to exist much less to buy ammo for their territorial skirmishes.
The MSM clueless? Imagine that!
The solution to the bulletproof vest is the head shot. Practice them until you can make 70% under low light conditions. I have a steel cable loop on a pully at my farm. I put a cantalope in a string bag and hit the remote and the cantalope comes sliding down the cable. It bounces up and down as it moves downhill, sort of like a man running. Then I shoot at it. I can make my 70% threshold with my CZ-75B in .40 at about 20 feet. Even in the dark.
I can’t do it with my go to church pistol (H&K P7). Yet….
I would have to agree with the author on this one. I have been trying to restock my ammo and most of the sporting goods shops and gun shops are out of stock except for the odd caliber ammo. I also tried to order on line from 5 different sites and most were out of stock. Talking with the gun shop owners, they are selling to US Citizens that don’t trust the current administration. You could argue that the drug cartels are sending 1000′s across the borders to buy ammo and smuggle it back across the border but I think they are to busy smuggling the drugs north not the ammo south. By the way I am one of the citizens that does not trust the current administration. Talking with other redneck, gun toting religous fanatics, they don’t trust it either.
Herb,
I was thinking the same thing.
Maybe im just a heartless bastard but lets just let the druggies all OD. Just think, mass un-intentional suicide of hippies!!
7. jakevonMN: That might work for the cokeheads and junkies, but what are we gonna do with the pot heads?
You can’t OD on pot, and if we let them run wild, they’re just gonna eat all our Doritos!
Herb has it right. The drug cartels would collapse if the US had a domestic supply of recreational drugs. Will this open the floodgates? No, the floodgates are already open and brings in low quality, tainted and overpriced products. Regulate it like booze and tobacco. Tax it and use that money for a smart education program that relies on ex users to inform those who can be reached.
@jakevon That would be pretty cruel and a good 90% of my classmates would be dead…Then my university would go under and I woudnt get my dream job /cryface
>.> Though I guess the classrooms not smelling like unwashed artisan would be a good thing.
Typical of the ignorance of the media on the issue. Gun owners are afraid (rightfully so) that the current administration and the other morons in congress will ban not only hand guns but “assault” weapons. as they have repeatedly shown they do not know what an assault weapon is. the gun stores here in KY have been doing a booming business since BHO has been elected. My son-in-law purchased his AR15 when it appeared he would be elected and has loaded up on ammo since then. I agree with the writer, if i wanted to shoot someone, I would reach for my 380 or 9MM before I grabbed my AR15. I have many relatives in the military and none of them like the stopping power of the M16 which uses the same ammo as the AR15.
Drugs — legalize them, tax them, and the drug gangs and drug lords will just melt away. We faced the very same problem back in the ’20s and ’30s. We fixed it then by doing just that, and it worked. It’ll work the same way this time.
Ammo — the chattering class’s assertion that it is the Mexican Drug gangs buying up the ammo just doesn’t pass the stink test. For instance: .22lr ammo. You honestly can’t tell me with a straight face that the Mexican drug gangs are fighting it out with bulk .22lr ammo that they’re buying at Walmart. So then why is it that it just flies off the shelf? You’d have a hard time convincing me that they are fighting it out with .30-30 ammo. That isn’t the stuff that their military style weaponry takes, and yet that stuff is flying off the shelves as well. The Mexican drug gangs’ ammo demand is just a blip on the radar. The real reasons for the ammo shortage are twofold: increased law enforcement training demands and panic buying by us civilians, with the majority of it being the latter. To a certain extent, I’m guilty of it myself.
As the author of the ammunition smuggling piece, allow me to offer a few comments:
Demand for certain kinds of ammunition and weaponry did indeed go up in December and January of this year. But my reporting covers the years prior to this post-election uptick.
I think it goes without saying that Americans buy most of the ammunition sold in this country. The story, though, reports that millions of rounds are showing up in Mexican cartel weapons safehouses just across the border.
In getting overly caught up in what kind of round can go through what kind of material, you somehow miss that point. Tons of American ammo, totally unregulated unlike firearms, are arming the Mexican cartels. Your logic about the 5.7 fails to address the fact that in October Mexican authorities found – in just one stash house in Reynosa – 500,000 rounds of American sold smuggled ammo.
Todd Bensman
Mr. Bensman,
1. Can you provide more info on that ammo – where was it manufactured and sold? Did they find the sales receipt?
2. A sample size of 1 does not make a trend. What were the sources of other ammo seizures?
would like to add my agreement with the comments above that legalizing drugs = draining the swamp
With the uptick in stories about Mexicans getting US arms, I would like to ask just where in the US they are buying hand-grenades and automatic rifles ?
Send me an advertisement.
It’s funny: Two weeks ago, I was in the Bass Pro store in Independence, MO, and found that they were almost sold completely out of handgun ammunition, in almost all calibers. I got their last box of .357s and one of their last two boxes of Remington 158-gr. 38 Special +Ps; another customer immediately grabbed that second box right off the shelf.
The only thing they had in quantity was some Remington 9mm FMJ practice loads (they’d just got in a shipment that very morning, apparently)…and, ironically, a whole shelf of 5.7X28 that’s seemingly been there since the store opened.
So if ammo is such a hot seller, why don’t the cartels sell ammo instead of drugs?
I bought a 1000 rounds of 223 today for $ 580.00 and next week I’ll pick-up a 1000 rounds of 7.62X 39 for $ 306.00. Get it now while you still can before the Mexicans get it all, ha ha. Someone needs to protect those no gun carrying liberals.
As the author of this piece, I notice Mr. Bensman cannot defend the factual error in the rumor he was spreading in his article about “cop killer” bullets. Pardon me, sir, for having the unmitigated gall to be accurate.
While we’re on the subject of accuracy, I’d also have to note that his claim that ammunition sales began to rise in December and January is also incorrect. Ammunition sales started to rise and demand caused supplies to significantly constrict back in early-to-mid 2007, a fact I verified with manufacturers in rebutting another incorrect ammunition story by one of your peers, Estes Thompson. A second surge in ammunition, piggybacking on the demand started in 2007, actually began in September and October, not December and January.
I would also challenge Mr. Bensman to explain why the ammunition regulations he seems to be an advocate for will be any sort of a hurdle to an organization already involved in the international shipping of contraband materials.
Please admit the rather obvious truth, Mr. Bensman: you want ammunition restricted because you don’t trust your fellow American citizens, not because there is any indication it will make ammunition harder to get for drug cartels.
Todd Bensman = pwned
Several Soros employees have hijacked this site.
Mr Bensman – “Tons of American ammo, totally unregulated unlike firearms, are arming the Mexican cartels.”
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here. Mexico is a failed state. Trying to crack down on the manufacture of guns and ammunition in the US will not alter that simple fact. Perhaps you people in the media could start reporting on the problems in Mexico and the problems of illegal immigration into the US for a change, and try to earn your paychecks. If you continue to refuse to do your jobs then you deserve to get laid off.
Here is a hint – it’s not your job to be a propaganda official for the Democratic Party.
Does anyone smell this as a setup? Gun control and ammo control to protect us from armed mexican drug gangs. Here it comes.
Trey
Imagine that, now we are will have to go to Mexico to buy our ammo from illegal cartels. Congress is pushing everybodies job overseas. The kids here are killing themselves with prescription drugs stolen from their parents. Everyone wants more money for education. I felt that I was sending my sons to prison for high school. Both were dean’s list in college, but there was very little challenging them in HS
Why should my rights be restricted because the kleptocratic Mexican government can’t deal with their problem?
Government corruption is, and always has been, a way of life in Mexico, its a legacy of Spanish colonial rule. If American arms and ammunition are showing up in the hands of cartels the first place I’d look for the source is the Mexican military and police.
Hey Typos_R_Us, how do you like your CZ-75B .40? I am thinking about getting one.
Obambi and other members of his administration have very recent history of espousing both gun control silliness and taxes on ammunition. That’s more than enough reason to purchase ammo in bulk.
I like the authors idea of taxing / regulating bulk speech. Just how many people have ill informed politician(s) killed with bulk (automatic) delivery of mere words?
As for the Mexican gangs, why do we tolerate any armed group crossing our borders? Send in the Marines and clean them out (kill in bulk) all of them. Stop the silly drug laws too. If Joe college boy wants to turn himself into a babbling idiot, let him.
In my local Walmart, the sporting goods department manager is actually “limiting” sales to certain law abiding American males. Why and what kind of restriction you ask? First the why. Because of the very reasons stated by Mr. Owens – folks are stocking up and the manager wants to also have enough on hand to satisfy all of his customers. Second the restriction. If he recognizes you as a “recent quantity” purchaser, he will limit your purchase that day to a few boxes. Again, this is so that there is enough to go around.
By the way, the manager is a great guy. He has no problem selling ammo to persons who can legally purchase it. He is working through the Walmart procurement system to try and keep the shelves stocked. And, finally, not for nothing, and just to make sure that Holder knows we are talking about it, but he is also black. What’s up with that?
So if ammo is such a hot seller, why don’t the cartels sell ammo instead of drugs?
Coming soon to a collapsing economy near you…
just bought 250 12gauge 00 buckshot and 500 rounds of .40 S&W on the internets (cabelas.com) ..typically only keep a box of two of each around the house (my range requires you to buy ammo there).
and i’ll keep monitoring for in-stcck.
doing so was more instinctual than thought out…
I know this is crazy…but if drugs were legalized, the cartels wouldn’t have any reason to exist much less to buy ammo for their territorial skirmishes.
You aren’t crazy.
Economics 101: banning items with an established demand does not curtail that demand. It merely takes a powerful economic engine out of the hands of law-abiding businessmen, and hands it over to criminals. That engine that can then fuel all other criminal activity and the tools thereof, making such organizations far more powerful, well-equipped and dangerous than they would be otherwise.
Legalize the “contraband”, and you take their economic engine away. Why would anyone risk dealing with criminals anymore when everything is aboveboard and within the protective sphere of law again?
But we’ve got to *do* something for the…the…um…the Mexican children!
And the Mexican baby harp seals, too, while we’re at it.
If you outlawed the manufacture and sale of ammunition tomorrow, what, precisely, prevents a drug cartel from buying a few metal working mills, a halfway decent barrel lathe and some sheet metal benders, and setting up their own AK factory? It really doesn’t take tons of knowledge or precision to make functional AKs or AR’s. A warehouse full of progressive presses to keep them in ammo. Even assuming the assertion’s true, the net result is the cartels still get their guns, at an increased cost, which they pass along to the drug buying public (primarily American), resulting in more drug based crime in the US, as junkies steal more to pay the higher prices, and gangs fight over turf to compensate for the market loss.
13. Todd Bensman: The cartels are stockpiling the ammo so they can sell it illegally in the US along with drugs when Obama does away with the second amendment!
O-tay, Spanky
Lets get down to the core, if we can. The anti-gun loons say that the Mexican cartels are armoring up using US Ammo. Yet every day flights leave from Tijuana to Cuba, and I am sure that there are a lot of other routes to Cuba, Guatemala , and points south well connected to Zimbabwe (remember “Cheetah” ammo…good stuff, given that it came from China). Furthermore, does anybody actually sane think that a bunch of guys with billions of dollars are going to be inconvenienced by increasing cost of ammo by 200 percent, 20,000 percent, WTF, who cares. Except of course, the senators and members of the house who are on the cocaine/horse money teat, but have to feed the fantasies of their idiot constituencies? Give me a break. It takes one round to kill somebody. Supply of ammo is a red herring and the cartels have little interest in shootouts, they’re in business, f’chrissakes. This BS about American ammo is targeted at American Citizens: Creepy little slime-balls like Attorney General Holder (Amerika’s answer to Herr Goring (Gore?, hmmm, interesting), is the kind of slime that arranges for Mark Rich to get a pardon based on huge cash payments Rich’s wife to the shameless Clintons. You can bet he’s behind this creepy idea, because he has already said so.
I never miss a “Crossroads of the West” gun show at the Del Mar fairgrounds just north of ol’ Mehico, thin wienie-fests though they be, being sited in Kalifornia (as opposed to other states like Arizona or Texas, where the grannies are tougher than our LA sissies). I meet a lot of cop, ex-cop, and ex-pol friends who are always good for a story while sucking up an $8.00 beer that cost the fairgrounds $0.50 (I love public unions, the f’ing parasites,and they wonder why the receipts suck…). Yes, and I am fascinated by the Mexican guys wheeling $3,000 worth of 9 and 10 mm on handtrucks out the door to waiting vans. But so what? If it was $9,000 or 20,000 all I could do is not afford it, but they could. Which reminds me once again what bunch of self-absorbed shits we have in Washington. Like the KGB crowd that empty suit is growing in the DOJ. The truth is anybody will go for a good deal, even cartels drowning in cash. But the drug police, as opposed to the real cops, and the political scum who infest our “drug war” are the real facilitators of our drug grief, and don’t think any of these self-interested fools, from the Supremes on down, want to kill the golden calf. You on the other hand, are only a Citizen of the United States. To become a persistantly politician you have to be both a psychopath and a narcissist. It’s a tough go. Small surprise they don’t give a shit about your freedom or your life or your 2nd Amendment rights.
“2. I know liberals often don’t believe this but, the evil looking AR-15’s and AK’s sold in the U.S. are semi-auto only and are difficult to convert to full-auto. What self-respecting drug lord wants that?”
Even the US Military has shied away from full auto weapons for standard infantrymen. The standard issue M-16 fires a three round burst. Full auto consumes too much ammo and is not cost effective for most troops. Trained troops with “crew served” weapons are a different matter. They can give the enemy a very bad day, but these weapons are tightly controlled and you would have to buy ammo by the pallet load. In short, if Mexicans are obtaining weapons in the US they are not full auto and are being purchased by strawmen. That’s a felony in itself.
O-tay, Spanky
Lets get down to the core, if we can. The anti-gun loons say that the Mexican cartels are armoring up using US Ammo. Yet every day flights leave from Tijuana to Cuba, and I am sure that there are a lot of other routes to Cuba, Guatemala , and points south well connected to Zimbabwe (remember “Cheetah” ammo…good stuff, given that it came from China). Furthermore, does anybody actually sane think that a bunch of guys with billions of dollars are going to be inconvenienced by increasing cost of ammo by 200 percent, 20,000 percent, WTF, who cares. Except of course, the senators and members of the house who are on the cocaine/horse money teat, but have to feed the fantasies of their idiot constituencies? Give me a break. It takes one round to kill somebody. Supply of ammo is a red herring and the cartels have little interest in shootouts, they’re in business, f’chrissakes. This BS about American ammo is targeted at American Citizens: Creepy little slime-balls like Attorney General Holder (Amerika’s answer to Herr Goring (Gore?, hmmm, interesting), is the kind of slime that arranges for Mark Rich to get a pardon based on huge cash payments Rich’s wife to the shameless Clintons. You can bet he’s behind this creepy idea, because he has already said so.
I never miss a “Crossroads of the West” gun show at the Del Mar fairgrounds just north of ol’ Mehico, thin wienie-fests though they be, being sited in Kalifornia (as opposed to other states like Arizona or Texas, where the grannies are tougher than our LA sissies). I meet a lot of cop, ex-cop, and ex-pol friends who are always good for a story while sucking up an $8.00 beer that cost the fairgrounds $0.50 (I love public unions, the f’ing parasites,and they wonder why the receipts suck…). Yes, and I am fascinated by the Mexican guys wheeling $3,000 worth of 9 and 10 mm on handtrucks out the door to waiting vans. But so what? If it was $9,000 or 20,000 all I could do is not afford it, but they could. Which reminds me once again what bunch of self-absorbed shits we have in Washington. Like the KGB crowd that empty suit is growing in the DOJ. The truth is anybody will go for a good deal, even cartels drowning in cash. But the drug police, as opposed to the real cops, and the political scum who infest our “drug war” are the real facilitators of our drug grief, and don’t think any of these self-interested fools, from the Supremes on down, want to kill the golden calf. You on the other hand, are only a Citizen of the United States. To become a persistantly sucessful politician you have to be both a psychopath and a narcissist. It’s a tough go. Small surprise they don’t give a shit about your freedom or your life or your 2nd Amendment rights.
I saw this coming when McCain’s nomination made it clear a Democrat could win the presidency. My response was to stock up on bullet molds and lead. A cast bullet cannot be made to perform as well as clad bullets, but I have plenty of those laid by, too.
There are few MSM writers who know anything about firearms or ammunition.
I am part of that problem, I have ramped up purchases of ammo since it became apparent that the Annointed One was going to get elected. I fugure that when I hit 20,000 rounds I can back off a bit.
#30 Snoop – Hilarious! Literally laughed aloud! Thanks for that.
To the ppl who are suggesting legalizing drugs would make the cartels go bye bye… this is kind of a myth at this point. Even if the US were to legalize just about every drug including hardcore stuff like heroin the cartels in mexico will still be there. In fact it could make them stronger. One of the key things you have to consider is the fact that the cartels are roughly as strong as the mexican government. That means that once it becomes legal they can spend tons of money buying out the government and basically finishing their take over of mexico.
At this point other then invading mexico their are no clear cut fixes in the short term. The first step needs to be shutting down the border. By shutting down the border and then deporting illegal much of the crime and drug problem in the US will be of the non-hardcore stuff(ie pot). By deporting illegal amass and blocking the border you prevent the drug cartels from getting money… you also remove many of the street gangs/sellers. Another major factor is the drug cartels don’t just make money from drugs… human smuggling is another cash source which would be also cut off.
The simple fact is legalizing drugs will not take cash away from the cartels… all it will do is add another “cartel” into the mix that being the government. Also in the fact that heavily taxing something means that the cartels which will have a lower price will of course be the prime seller STILL. The only way for the government “cartel” to compete would even they could undercut the cartels prices… heavy taxes would prevent that.
As to the idea that legalizing drugs will eliminate the problem with drug trafficking, true, if drugs were sold like alcohol through the equivalent of state liquor stores such as we have here in Ohio, that would take care of the distribution problem, and provide additional tax revenue to the government. However, I doubt it would eliminate more than a portion of the drug related crime problem. After all;
1. Drug addicts can’t hold down jobs. Period. The only way they can is to cease being addicts. This is as true of booze as it is of pot, coke, what have you. Addicts who can’t stay employed, but stay addicted, will turn to crime to make the money needed for their addiction.
2. Drugs sold legally and subject to taxation will engender a black market in the same drugs sold illegally to skirt the tax laws. If drugs are regulated differently from state to state, as alcohol or tobacco products are, look for smuggling of same from low-tax states to high-tax states for “under the table” sales.
3. Just as bootleg whiskey survived the repeal of the Volstead Act, “bootleg” pot, etc., will still be around after the legalization of such drugs. Probably in large quantities, as growing pot, etc., isn’t exactly rocket science.
4. In view of (2) and (3), don’t expect legalization to adversely affect the income of the international drug-runners and the indigenous drug gangs here in the U.S. They’ll change their strategies and “business plans” somewhat, but they’ll still be there. Still making money and paying no taxes on it. And, incidentally, still killing people to make their points in “aggressive marketing”.
The only real answer isn’t to legalize drugs- it’s to ban drug addicts. Simply put, a first offense should get the addict a year in prison plus mandatory detox. A second offense, three years and more detox. If there’s a third go-round, the assumption should be that the addict values getting high more than being a productive member of society, and they should be given life. At which point I don’t care if the prison supplies them with their favorite method of frying their brain every day. At least they will no longer be a threat to the rest of society by, say, trying to drive to the local carryout at 3 AM for chips and pop while stoned to the eyeballs.
As a side note, I also believe that any offense perpetrated by an addict while “high” should be treated as a felony of the appropriate level. Which means that, in the case of the guy with the munchies at 0300, if he runs into another car and kills its occupant(s), forget “vehicular manslaughter” or “negligent homicide”- it’s now murder. Period.
To put it bluntly, if those who think legalization is the answer want us to try things their way, they have to be ready to accept the consequences if the results aren’t all sweetness and light. And the world looks entirely different when you’re the one who’s sober and cleaning up the mess, instead of the one who’s on Cloud Nine and neither knows nor cares that he made it in the first place.
clear ether
eon
#42 I have to agree. Which is worse, drugs controlled by Mexican cartels or drugs controlled by the US Congress?
Education programs funded with drug tax dollars will never happen because it would defeat the point of collecting more taxes.
Close the border and kill everyone that tries to cross.
I’m pretty sure Hugo Chavez has NO interest in seeing Mexico destabilized…..he’s a friend of the US and Muy Simpatico with BHO.
This thought would never break into the MSM echo chamber, and, if it did, Media Matters would sink it faster than you can say hopey-changey.
I’d bet a month’s salary that the People’s Paradise of Cuba and Venezuela have an interest in promoting unrest on our borders and are more than willing to sell the drug cartels anything that want in any quantity they want it.
Anyone who thinks that the cartels need our weaponry OR ammunition needs to think again. China, Russia, and Syria would sell ocean-going containers of AK’s and ammo to them cheaper and with less trouble than buying them here and smuggling them back across the border. All it takes is money, and the cartels have a lot of it.
What’s Venezuela doing with all the guns and ammo it is purchasing from Iran and Russia. IIRC, it was lots and lots; enough to equip several armies.
It’s SS109 not SS 190. That single mistake alone should tell you all you need to know about the author’s credibility or knowledge in this area.
The cartels may survive legalization, but they will be drastically less powerful, and will shrink over time. The idea that people will buy bootleg pot to get a lower price is not reasonable. Who buys bootleg cigarettes and beer? Do you buy bootleg soda to avoid the bottle tax? Sure, there is some smuggling when there is a big tax difference between states, but that just means you need to tax it at a reasonable and even rate. These drugs are so cheap to produce, even a 75% tax would be negligible. Let the hippies grow their own and you will have even less cartel action.
As to the ammo shortage, go to a range and listen to the rate of fire. Now imagine that much shooting in a firefight. How many ranges are open a day? How many rounds expended? Not even Ciudad Juarez could account for a meaningful fraction of what the shooting public in the US goes through each day. At this point it’s worth asking: “Do we want to change our laws to mildly, momentarily inconvenience the cartels?”
If we were able to keep all US guns and ammunition out of cartel hands, the predictable result would be cartels armed with black market AK47′s. These weapons are all over the world, cheap, simple to use and deadly. Before we convert the cartels to true assault weapons as standard, we should remember what happened when some places banned cheap 22 pistols,formerly the choice of criminals. The same criminals bought bigger, more lethal guns. Nice work!
Nothing like regulating something you don’t understand while pretending economics doesn’t apply.
I did all my panic buying back when Bill Clinton was elected. I figure I’d have to live a looong time to shoot up what I stashed away then.
I agree I wouldn’t want to be shot, but if I must be, let it be a .25 ACP..
Oh, and that wonderful 5.7 x 28 takes the small caliber/high velocity handgun concept way beyond what’s practical. I sure wouldn’t want to fire one indoors without plugs, muffs, and goggles.
To 49… the SS 190 is the old version of the SS109… and I believe it was back in the early 90s that they were writing the massive propaganda to ban anything and everything. So in turn he listing the bullet that was named the “cop killer” and not the updated/new ammo thats come out. I can only guess at the authors intent but it seems to fit with the storyline.
I’m thinking that legalizing drugs will not make the gangs fade away like old soldiers; in my mid-sized north carolina city, we interdicted a great deal of cocaine and marijuana, interrupting the gangs’ supply line. so in order for them to continue making money, robberies and carjackings greatly increased. wouldn’t be surprised to find that prostitution also increased.
point is, these gangs are not run like businesses, they ARE businesses, and as such will find a new market or product if the existing ones become unprofitable.
the national organization of the Gangster Disciples took in 100 million dollars that we know about, in 2000. these guys won’t be driven out of business because we make drug sales difficult.
remember, there are a lot of ways to make money for unscrupulous, determined operators.
4. Herb said “I know this is crazy…but if drugs were legalized, the cartels wouldn’t have any reason to exist much less to buy ammo for their territorial skirmishes”
golly Herb, I know this is crazy…but if illegal aliens were legalized the (human smuggling) cartels wouldn’t have any reason to exist much less to buy ammo for their territorial skirmishes.
think!
To 50. dennymack
I don’t think you understand how government works. The government at best could match the cartel price pre-taxes. You see the government will have insane oversight, safety/work regs and a host of other fees, licensing costs and a host of new government “jobs” over watching it. The drug war won’t change much because the drug enforces instead of busting ppl for having drugs… they will bust ppl for not paying taxes on their drugs. Frankly if you think the drug cops are over bearing POS NOW… just want until you have them collecting money from you even more so…
Unless the US just says making/using drugs isn’t illegal using drugs as long as your not driving or doing something along that line is legal as well… the government is going to step in and just take over. Which means your just adding another “cartel” to the mix.
Ppl still won’t be able to grow their own weed or make their own crack or whatever else they want to get high with. It won’t fix anything but giving the government even more “reasons” to search you, arrest you, and fine you.
“that in October Mexican authorities found – in just one stash house in Reynosa – 500,000 rounds of American sold smuggled ammo.”
people do this all the time… “OMG! FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND ROUNDS!!!!!”. you do realize that if it was 9mm ammo, that is just 500 cases which i could stack comfortably against the wall of one room in my house.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…..”
Acworth/Swenson,
The SS109 is a 62-grain AP round manufactured for the military at Lake City with a steel penetrator and a lead core in the M855 “green tip” intermediate cartridge for the 5.56 NATO round used in the M-16 rifle and M-4 carbine.
The SS190 is the 31-grain FN-loaded AP bullet with a steel penetrator and an aluminum core in a pistol-class cartridge for the P90 PDF and FiveseveN pistol.
The following URL shows the SS109/M855 5.56 rifle loading and the SS109 5.7 pistol loading side-by-side in a picture, if that helps clear things up for you.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/fnusg_021207/index1.html
actually, I meant that to be directed to Acworth and robotech master, not svenson.
I also meant P90 PDW, not PDF. I need a nap.
Looks like my original comment got eaten, and the corrections got posted. Oh well…
This is to help explain to Mr Acworth and robotech master the differences between an SS109 bullet and a SS190 bullet. They are not the same, nor is one an update to the other, and while they are constructed in the same manner, they have different applications
The SS109 is 62-grain AP bullet with a steel penetrator and lead core. It is typically found in the M855 “green tip” 5.56×45 NATO intermediate rifle cartridge used by the M16 rifle and M4 carbine.
The SS190 is a 31-grain AP bullet with a steel penetrator and a lead core designed for the 5.7×28 pistol-class cartridge used by the P90 and FiveseveN pistol.
They are not the same, anymore than a Chevette and Corvette are the same kind of car.
To 58. Bob Owens
Yes my mistake on that the SS109 is 5.56..was reading a guide on converting 5.7 190 to 5.56 109.
The army labels AP rounds as black tips… so unless they made some change only for 5.56 the green tips should be standard issue ball ammo…
Then again,
if all the illegal drug users who give every dime they can to these heavily armed thugs would drop dead – no more problem.
Drugs ARE regulated. They are ILLEGAL.
If you can’t go a day without smoking pot please feel free to shoot yourself.
“54. Kirly:
golly Herb, I know this is crazy…but if illegal aliens were legalized the (human smuggling) cartels wouldn’t have any reason to exist much less to buy ammo for their territorial skirmishes.”
So??? I thought the problem with illegal aliens is that they were illegal. Make them legal, then what’s the problem? That they’re aliens?
Pardon me for being a poor dumb redneck but if there really is a problem with Mexican gangs equipping themselves with USA guns and ammo, couldn’t we stop it by building a fence?
I’d dearly like to see the pack of liars in our government or the MSM explain something to me.
The weapons being used and captured in Mexico are fully automatic. The weapons allegedly bought in the US are semiautomatic replicas of selective fire rifles.
These rifles don’t convert themselves to selective fire, and yet, in spite of the fact that they’re arrest and press hungry, the BATFE has never shown us an arrest of an underground rifle modification operation or arrests of people for illegally manufacturing a National Firearms Act regulated weapons from one of those replicas, or charges of trafficking of same.
In the terminology that the Feds love to use, there is a big gap in their “Stream Of Illegal Commerce.”
Bottom line? They’re lying.
BTW, those guns could just as easily be coming from China. COSCO is big in Mexico, and after the 1996 Long Beach Incident with that attempt to smuggle in AK’s and ammo, the guys doing that business had to go somewhere and given the level of corruption, Mexico is the logical place to smuggle.
It’s also interesting to note that the Chinese manufacture a nice copy of the AR-15 called the QM and the current version looks like an M-4 Carbine.
Finally, the Chinese have long sold arms and equipment with fake markings. Industrially speaking, roll stamps are cheap and if somebody wanted AR-15s with fake US markings, or AK’s with fake US importer’s stamps on em, in terms of added cost, that’s chump change. For a good customer, the Peoples Liberation Army, which owns NORINCO, would probably add those markings free of charge to a good customer.
And you see that with other items as well. For example, I’ve a fairly decent canvas backpack that’s made in China. It doesn’t match any known US equipment pattern, but that didn’t stop them from stamping the inside of the flap with fake NSN and DSA stock numbers.
And I’ve a nylon canteen cover that is also Chinese, but marked again with phony US markings.
In the end, we only know two things. First off, the Mexican and US Governments share an agenda that includes involuntary disarmament of law abiding American citizens, and two, that those guns that are mentioned, are selective fire but which don’t appear to have been converted by anybody. My guess is that those guns were manufactured as selective fire rifles and came from somewhere else, China or some other country that can manufacture copies of the AR-15 and the AK-47. A check of Small Arms Of The World, will tell you that there is quite a long list of countries that can do that, and Mexican customs is highly porous.
Since the Feds are claiming that those guns are coming from here, the burden of proof is on them, and that starts with telling us how those guns get converted to selective fire.
Buy dessicant, 6 inch diameter PVC pipe with end caps, and a shovel. Oh, and don’t forget that there’s all kinds of chemicals you can make from household products. Guns may be the least of Bambi’s worries.
Lots of good points:
junyo is right – anyone with a decent machine shop can manufacture weapons. They can make AK’s but it’s way easy to make Stens or Uzis – and they are easier to conceal by criminals. Making the 9mm ammo even easier.
China, Russia, Cuba, Chavez – any of them will sell a boatload – literally – of weapons no questions asked for far less money than any U.S. source. There are also lots of leftover FAL’s, AK’s and G3’s in Central America from their various insurgencies.
Funny how this problem didn’t exist 2 months ago – before gun-controllers took over.
The REASON AMMO IS DRYING UP IS THE UPCOMING ATTEMPT BY OBAMA AND HIS UNDERLINGS THAT HATE GUNS AND HUNTERS ALIKE AND WANT TO FORCE THEIR DISLIKE FOR GUNS AND HUNTING DOWN OUR THROATS… THE BILLS IN CONGRESS (DEMOCRATIC) WANT TO TAX AMMO, PLACE A SERIAL NUMBER ON ALL AMMO, AND HR 24 (I THINK THE NUMBER IS CORRECT) ON THE FEDERAL BILL DOCKET WANTS TO REGISTER MY GUN AND ALL OF YOURS SO THAT CONFISCATION OF ALL FIREARMS WILL BE EASIER LATER ON. REMEMBER, THAT IS WHAT HITLER DID, ALSO MUSSOLINI DID. TAKE THE GUNS AWAY FROM PRIVATE CITIZENS SO THEY CANNOT PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. NEED MORE INFO… SEE AMERICAN RIFLEMAN AND RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. WHAT HAS THE GOVT EVER DONE THAT WAS BENEFICAL TO THE WORKING MAN EXCEPT SOCIALIZE HIS/HER RIGHTS. IT IS THE OLD ROBIN HOOD PRINCIPLE– TAKE AWAY FROM THOSE WHO WORK FOR IT AND GIVE IT TO THOSE WHO ARE TOO LAZY TO WORK FOR IT LIKE THE REST OF US…..
If you are having trouble finding .223 and other Ammo, go to Sportsman’s Guide. Click: Here is their latest specials offering. They have a lot more. I have used them for years and am happy with the service.
I don’t think there is an overall shortage of Ammo. I think it is a local thing. I just bought #4 buck in quantity and recently .357 Mag for my Coonan auto and Rossi lever gun.
Teach your kids young [but not too young] and to respect firearms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8&feature=related
Why an I buying ammo? Not only for all the above reasons, but mainly because I don’t accept Chairman Maobama as my president. He represents everything I’m against. Last Flag Day instead of Old Glory I put up the Gasden “Don’t Tread On Me” flag. Eric Holder is the 1st AG who doesn’t believe the 2nd is an individual right. So according to Holder, all Americans, including the Framers, were wrong. My father, his father, the millions and millions from 1789 until now who believed in the individual right were wrong, and Holder is right. I feel totally disenfranchised. Me, a hard working, God fearing, tax paying college educated Navy veteran…something wrong with this picture. You bet I’m buying ammo…
Dear Todd Bensman,
Americans have already seen one Federal “assault weapon” ban, and because of that they are more the wiser. We have seen the deceptive action that it was, so the dishonest left and their media need a new angle. The same old lies are failing. This is due in part because today we have a new and better alternative media, and dishonesty is being exposed. So go ahead and tell us more how Mexico is going to be saved if Americans would just give away their freedom. It is not going to work this time around.
Sincerely,
An American gun owner.
The armor-piercing steel
very good.
There’s one reason and one reason alone for the current & continuing run’s on ammunition & weapons: A deep -and as I’m sure we’ll discover- well founded distrust of Obama and this new administration. Period.
Hey Typos_R_Us, how do you like your CZ-75B .40? I am thinking about getting one.
Absolutely LOVE it. I made the switch from 9mm and .45 last century. All I have left now in 9 is a P6 and a P7. Both choke on anything that isn’t FMJ.
I Have broad palms and short chubby ( fat?) fingers, so for me a pistol is mostly about how it fits in my hand. I never could shoot a M1911 .45 It would always slide around in my hand. I tried many .40′s before settling on the CZ. The Tarus PT940 ( A Beretta M51 clone in .40, I think) actually ‘fit’ me the best, but I have had problems with Tarus before. I know others that swear by them, so I just might have gotten unlucky. I want to try a Baby Eagle one day. I prefer a frame outside design.
I am of the opinion that ‘fit’ or comfort level is the single most important thing about handguns. So find a good gunshop that will work with you to find the weapon that feels best in YOUR hand. Turn your brain off and listen to your body. Then shoot it. A LOT. I go twice a week and put a box thru my CZ and then shoot some of my other pistols until I get tired. Your hand will hurt at first, but after a few months or so it will toughen up.
The CZ is reliable, accurate and I was OTD with an extra mag for under 400. I think they cost more nowdays. I haven’t gone into a gunshop in a while.
Hey, this post has been up fro almost a week. Kinda stale. Aren’t you guys starting to go through withdrawal without a new guns ‘n’ ammo thread to stroke to? “Mmmm, mmmm, mm, m . . . MAGNUM!”
For all of you out there that have an un-warranted fear of lossing our 2nd amendment rights: PARANOIA is just a simple sign of much worse mental conditions. It’s not going to happen in our life time. Move on to more substantial issues.
” … as a law-abiding gun owner I certainly wouldn’t mind if one day I had to show ID and the clerk wrote down what I bought”
That’s where you and I differ.
Where I live this isn’t about politics, hunting or street killing, it’s about home defense.
My experience:
Two weeks ago I decided that the home def ammo was stale and shot it on the range rather than shoot target loads.
Went to three stores & online. Plenty of high-powered hunting loads. Plenty of heavy ball. *NO* low-recoil 12ga buck. No .38 or .357 hollow point.
I’m on three waiting lists.
–
pj
TO THE “LEGALIZE DRUGS” CROWD: Other than marijuana, it would be INSANE to legalize any other sort of drug, particularly heavy drugs like speed, coke, heroin, and X. Regular users of heavy drugs become useless to themselves and to society. I don’t care how much a few grams of meth would cost if legalized, the user would eventually become an everyday purchaser focused solely on getting the next “high”. How long before that user can’t work a normal job and can’t afford to pay for his dope? Will he then turn to the “cookers” and pushers who will continue to sell their destructive wares without government authorization, as surely such people will continue to exsist (thus, ensuring continued police work to fight drug pushers who egg in on the government’s racket)? Will the user eventually not be able to purchase his dope from gainfully earned money? Will that user then turn to nefarious means to GET the money to buy the drugs from the government approved source? Hmmmm? You guys need to think this through a bit more. Maybe the government can use all that tax money earned from taxing legalized drugs to set up government funded rehab centers? More government, more government, more government…..repeat it a million times! Sometimes I have to think that many of my fellow men simply can’t think things through.
Arms smuggling is an age-old tradition for hundreds of years. The ammo shortage is from multitude of sources. The last two years the cost of brass was high due to high metal costs. Please note that high salvage prices for brass, copper were encouraging thefts of those items. The high cost of raw materials was the explosion of Chinese manufacturing creating a high demand and reduction of supply from normal sources around the world.
The American consumer market is the largest in the world. The Chinese economy is suffering from the contraction in spending by Americans. The American consumer of ammo also constitutes the largest market and the demand has been high for the past year and accelerated before Obama got elected and another spike since he got elected. Civilian manufactured ammo manufactures have maintained 3 shifts to provide supply. The excess supply was consumed and there is little in the pipeline, so there are large backorders by suppliers. That is not from Mexican purchases.
Now Mexico could have increased their purchases of ammo the last couple of years but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the American gun owner’s population.
Foreign suppliers of ammo also can supply Mexico and I expect that ammo and gun smuggling is high due to multiple unrest and the war climate of the last 8 years. Ammo and guns are being sold in increase amounts to Venezuela and to African countries.
I personally do not see the problem if Mexico is buying ammo from US sources. So what, it can be bought from any source inside or out and a reduction of American supply will not be a major problem to smugglers. But US ammo manufactures have been under assault from micro stamping and lead bans initiative in the states.
Since the biggest market is America, any attempt to stifle that market will push demand should be suspected if ATF and DOJ and the MSM start bleating about the dangers of ammo to terrorists or drug cartels, that is a red herring to damage the ability to supply ammo to American gun owners.
American gun owners have seen the attempts to target ammo as the new strategy to enact gun control. First the bans was against Sat night special in the 1970’s, then so called “Assault rifles in the 1990’s. The ban on cop killer bullets was another attempt. Cities did very restricted or total bans on guns. When that started to fail or get resistance, then one gun a month to restrict sales to Americans. Then the strategy to litigate the ammo manufacturers out of existence by the big cities in the 1990’s. Then new ammo restrictions, the recent is to ban lead ammo for so-called environmental reasons. Taxes on ammo are next I suspect.
Do the gun banners or reporters think we are stupid? We can see every attack and the forms in order to make these attacks on the right and the supply on guns and ammo to American gun owners. So any call for restriction based on Mexico cartels is suspect as well. The supply to cartel is small and can be gotten easily get elsewhere. The American public is more at risk from ammo shortages than Mexican and any attempt to target manufacturing should be strongly resisted.
To Mr. Todd Bensman
Regarding your line that. “certainly wouldn’t mind if one day I had to show ID and the clerk wrote down what I bought, especially if I knew those practices might one day help the feds catch a cartel smuggler.”, is dangerous thinking. That attitude is the one used to denigrate the liberty and freedoms we use every day from, Lets limit this to “ save the children” excuse that has been heard for decades.
The underlying reason for an armed American populace is to resist a government tyranny and to provide for a possible rebellion. Any attempts to register and limit that ability are dangerous. That is the reason that registration of owners, guns and ammo are dangerous and resisted.
If the government can require identification to purchase ammo, as many businesses already do, then the ability of Americans to supply themselves with the tools to enact a rebellion is damaged.
So yes, I vehemently disagree with your statement.
“Sometimes I have to think that many of my fellow men simply can’t think things through.”
Look in the mirror James.
There is a right way and a wrong way to legalize drugs, just like everything else. The wrong way is what you fear.
The right way is for congress to create a category of drugs for recreational use. Then the Drug companies can get down with their test tubes, beakers and autoclaves. The FDA can grade the new drugs by how addictive they are, how long they last, etc. Then they market them thru State run stores. Include alcohol and tobacco. This will put the illegal drug dealers out of business. The drug companies will create much better drugs then what some guy can do in his bathroom. The profits will in part go toward new medicines.
As far as work related problems, I wonder what you have been smoking. Do you really think that 50% of the stock traders at work right now haven’t ran a line or two today? At least that many truck drivers are running on meth. The guys that built your house prolly had a joint with their morning coffee break.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-08-drug-use_x.htm
“Overall, 19.1 million Americans used illicit drugs last year, or 7.9%. The numbers were basically the same for the surveys taken in the previous two years, when about 8% of Americans reported using illicit drugs within the previous month.”
That is a pretty low estimate. I doewn’t include the ones to stoned to finish the poll. Match it with these numbers, also from official sources;
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/american_users_spend/what.html
“In 1997, the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), working with Abt Associates Inc., reported that Americans spent an estimated $57 billion to $91 billion per year between 1988 and 1995 for illicit drugs and for licit drugs used illegally. New data and a revised methodology have enabled us to improve those estimates, extend them through 1998, and project them into the year 2000.”
Nobody really knows.
If you match the various WAG’s (Wild Ass Guess) with the number of people in jail for illegal drugs, you will see some serious discrepancies.
The war on drugs is LOST. Remember the first rule of holes and stop digging. It is time to arrange a graceful surrender that is to society’s advantage. Or you can keep digging your hole. I’m not digging anymore. WE now have the third President in a row that is a drug user. If that isn’t a clue, you are beyond help.
I’m fascinated by the story of tens of thousands of dollars being paid in cash for ammunition in this country. Right after the election I had a hard time finding a few cases of 5.56mm, couldn’t find any reasonably priced .308, and 7.62x39mm is scarce too. Here in Texas the rifle racks at the gun stores are bare, and so are the ammo shelves. And it isn’t “cartel members” buying the stuff up.
As for law enforcement being credible, the Assistant US Attorneys and DAs, the senior LEOs, etc. all have a strong incentive to expand the truth. Good stories in the press about the tough job they have will eventually result in more money in the budget. And the troops enjoy telling a good story, whether they know the facts or not. More often than not they have no first hand knowledge and are passing rumors along. And I’m a retired Fed, so this is from personal experience.
It sounds great and reasonable and moderate until you consider that this kind of documentation has always, always, always lead to confiscation eventually.
If I only had some Constitutional guarantee that this could never happen… that my right to keep and bear functional arms (which means ammo, too) couldn’t be infringed upon … regulated out of practicality …
This is why I cringe when Mr. Hopey-Changiness and others insist the Constitution is out of date and contains too much stale old dogma and ideology. 32 states have voted to have another constitutional convention. They only need two more, and the jig is up.
WOW!!!!!!.
I’m 40 miles from the border. You cannot buy 9mm anywhere, they just aren’t on the shelves. Not sure if they are heading south, or people are just stocking up for when this spills over.
philmon, What? another constatutional convention who’s driving this – if it’s passed in 32 states, what’s the name of the organization.
Had to add because Herb made me LOL. Our Dorito supply chain is coping better than the ammo supply change – which in itself could be construed as a sign of the times. Funny, if you took a public opinion poll, there would be more people in favor of leagalizing drugs than allowing you to smoke a cigarette within 20 feet of a doorway.
If we legalize drugs, sure we empty the jails somewhat. We also create a larger poverty level group of junkies that we support both medically and economically. The people in the cartels are not nice people. They will find some other way to extort, mame and torture the local populations. Probaly form a water cartel, or join government.
We presently have several screwy security things happening… Russia gonna have a base in Cuba and/or Venezula? let’s call that saber rattling. Russia is comitted to building up and modernizing their armed forces. The Chinese harassing USN ships – Our government told our Navy to play nice. Pretty soon troops massing on both sides of the southern border.
I wish our government would focus on the bigger picture rather than printing more money. The economic downturn is going to be hard but we’ll get through it.
Will someone pull all the mortgage contract numbers with Adjustable Rates, rewrite them into something people can afford and we’ll get out of this much quicker. The present mortage help only comes to those who are 1. in forclosure already, 2. loans are held by Fanny or Freddy or insured by FHA. There are a lot of ARMS still out there ticking that will blow up in a few years which will only serve to prolong our misery. We cannot count on the banks to do this. They are offering people another ARM, so they can collect re-financing fees.
Dang, I can’t go to wal-mart tonight see if I can get some ammo because someone texted me it’s gang initiation night…
great article this is not the firs time recently i’ve heard the PD’s mentioned as a source of the problem i remember reading about 2 weeks ago how PD’s are stocking up and also placing large orders for rifle calibers.. trying to add AR-15′s and such to patrol cars in addition to the usual 12ga.
anyway i like your point about how the reporters would be up in arms about the 1a.. it’s a great comparison.
every one knows the price of ammo has been rising rapidly the last few years.
and i dont know what walmart some people visit but the ones in my area dont stock but maybe a dozen or so boxes on teh shelf at a time.. WHEN FULL.
it’s common for them to be out of 9mm for example.. but i was shocked how bad it was today.
my uncle told me him and his buddy could’nt find any 38spl.. i told him just go pick up some at wally world it’s not really any cheaper anywhere else (not that it’s cheap at walmart either)
so i told him next time i was near/at wally world i’d check and he could pay me back.. just so happen today i was a couple blocks away went in..
OMG they was outta everything i mean just about every caliber you can think of..
they had a few 100pk’s of .22lr (most expensive way of buying .22′s) left, they had a couple boxes of 30-30 (iirc).. a box of 357.. a box of 357 sig.. and that was about it.
other then 12ga shells.. they had tons of those.. but not sure what they was loaded with.
litterly you could count the number of total boxes on 1 hand.
i was planing on going to the range (mostly with a .22) but now im not so sure if i should.. as far as guns are concerned everything i mean everything is getting more and more expensive, im going less and less and i can easily see a point such as now where i either can’t afford it, or can’t find it to go shooting.
who needs ban’s when you can just price the poor and modest gun owners out of the game completely.
Yeah, south Texas is the same deal, go to walmart/academy and 1 in 5 odds that there will be any ammo that you need. I went today and all I saw was 3 boxes of 4buckshot- 5 rounds per. No 9mm, no 45, no anything worthy. I agree with the fencing of the border “IF” cartels are the issue. Remember they don’t play by the rules, why not take over Mexico or a portion of it so re-educate the world that AMERICA means business. China and Russia are other concerns. You’re not going to have peace or diplomacy if you roll on your back and show your belly when they threaten our vessels. Who elected these big vaginas into office anyway. Texas should secede and fortify borders, then charge out the @$$ for trade routes to and from.
I think we should handle up on a few of these places in a military way and show them who’s f-ing BOSS. Forget Iraq and what damage we did there, take over the opium production in the ‘stans and use that dinero to produce more rounds to export to our gun shops and storting good stores.
Protect yourself and your family, deport illeagals and those who help them, deport homosexuals too. USA is rapidly become Sodom. Who here values anything anymore?
I agree that legalizing drugs won’t cause the cartels to evaporate. If u look at the history of the Mafia, they went from alcohol to gambling and drugs. They’ll just find new markets like Internet gambling or old ones like kidnapping. I do think it might lessen drug profitability, but as others said, they could still undercut the govt with prices. I have heard some things that seem to make the uproar over US guns a half truth. Basically, some of our gangs, like Hells Angels, Triads, and Russian Mafiya groups, have sold AK’s and such, but to say 95% of guns used are of US origin is either spin or an uninformed misstatement. Also, Ive heard that various Russian Russian Mafiya and Hezbollah groups are advising and training different factions and arming them in exchange for drug access. So, this info plus what people said about Central America seems to undermine the press reports. If drugs are legalized, they shouldn’t become legal as a reaction to this but as a result of gradual changes in law and careful consideration.
Just to clarify, I said Russian twice to distinguish Russian Mafiya groups that are based in the “old country” from those based in US cities. Does anyone know how the 95% stastic breaks down in terms of weapon categories? I’d be surprised if it wasn’t mostly handguns. In which case, it’s useless as data since cartels primarily use SMG’s, MG’s, assault rifles, explosives, etc. I also forgot, Russians have given cartels aircraft (helicopters) and other light military vehicles. Pretty scary!!!
HAS ANYONE HEARD ANY RUMORS ABOUT SERIALIZING BULLETS, AND MAKING THAT A LAW? AND DOES ANYONE KNOW WHEN THIS SHORTAGE IS GOING TO BE OVER WITH? BECAUSE I OWN A MACHINE SHOP AND I KNOW BRASS AND LEAD ARE DOWN IN PRICE AND SCRAP PRICES ARE WAY DOWN, SO IT JUST MUST BE DEMAND THAT THE PRICES WENT UP SO HIGH.
I liked your article, but it has some flaws. First it is a .223 cal. or also known as the 5.56 NATO. Second the round you are talking about is called an SS109, not SS190. Also you need to check your ballistics. The 5.56 NATO can hit speeds of up to 3384fps with a 55-grain projectile using 27.5 grains of varget rifle powder. There is no .22 mag that can match that. Also the penetrate is designed to penetrate light armor. And anyone over 21 can order this ammo from http://www.cheaperthandirt.com or your local gun shop. And if you like that round you should check out DRT Ammo. Talk about cop killers. This round leaves a five in crater five inches deep and the round turns in to powder. Untraceable!!
1. We must guard agents our emenies are trying to: disadmed us U.S.A. citizens Rights to owned Long Guns & HandGuns & ammo Bullets for our protection Rights is Second amendments Rights of our U.S. Citizens only too. not Illegal alliens of other counties are living here: are trying to distroyed U.S.A. of a Free nation too! agree!!! We must deport thoses illegal people aren”t U.S. citizens at all too!! The IMMERGANTION pOLICE AGENTS & POLICE of Towns, townships, cities ,counties, state Police must get illegal alliens Causing Problems in the U.S.a too! agree!!!
Bob,
First of all, and I’m not an anti gunner just wanted to comment on a few of your facts from the article. SS109 5.56N rounds will penetrate most soft body armor used today. The problem with SS109 rounds are that they riccochet back to the shooter very frequently if they hit a solid barrier. Most other 5.56N rounds will also penetrate soft body armor, so SS109 rounds are not especially lethal. Most 5.56N rounds will go through steel plate as well. Ceramic however, is being utilized to prevent this from happening, along with a host of other materials in development. SS109 rounds are not tactically sound, and also do not always penetrate the target. As a matter of fact the Army found they often fail to penetrate where FMJ or ball rounds will penetrate the armor. It may sound confusing but the bottom line is SS109 rounds can be purchased by civilians and suck (at least till Obama bans them). These rounds are not commonly used by crimminals, and it makes no sense why antis are worried about the 5.56N and AR rifles. Mexicans can purchase military weapons from China for a fraction of what it costs to illegally obtain American assault rifles. I don’t care what MExico thinks or implies, if their people obtain weapons illegally from America it’s not my problem, it’s their problem. Since when do we punish law abiding citizens for the acts of crimminals? Well, here comes the politics, liberals thinks socialism is for the greater good and this is the bottom line, why not get it out in the open?
So, I guess the cartels are into reloading to? because reloading components are just as scarce.
Hey boys & girls,guess what its Homeland Security buying up the ammo.Probably easier for them to purchase large quantities.I dont know the mechanics of it all but not suprising obomi the comi using this entity to control ammo.Whats next? Anyone else have info? Always,God,Guts,& Guns.
Anybody give any thought to the fact that the current administration is responsible for the shortage?
Yes, we have the right to own and bear arms, but the constitution doesn’t say anything about ammo..
Remember, Obama studied Liberation Theology and Black Liberation Theology for more than 19 years before he took office? That teaches liberation by any means necessary.
If we can’t fire our weapons, we’re no threat to a government that would quietly move to control it’s own people.
More than half of Germany thought Hitler was a great guy simply because they were ill informed.
Lap-dog media keeps us in the dark and feeds us the fertilzer that the current admin. would have us absorb.
Are we THAT ignorant?
Let’s take a closer look at our own.
It wasn’t that long ago that the Native Americans trusted our govt. and look where it got them.
For the sake of our grandchildren, let’s start making our elected officials accountable.
By the way, if we’re all buying up the ammo., why are the ammo. manufacturers not reporting record profits? And, where are my dividends?
The amount of ammunition used by the Mexican Drug cartels, in their murdering, drug dealing operations in MINISCULE compared to the amount of ammo used on gun ranges, and in hunting in the US. The amount of rounds fired in anger in Mexico is a tiny, tiny fraction of the amount of rounds fired every day on ranges in Los Angeles.
In mexico, you cannot practice shooting your illegal ak 47. You can’t bring attention to yourself. Guns are illegal in Mexico. On the occasion that Mexican drug smuggler does fire his weapon, there’s better than 50/50 chance he’ll never fire again. If you added up the total number of drug smugglers in Mexico & the number of rounds they fire over their short careers (before they get killed, or go to jail) it’s just a handful. They need ammo, but they don’t use much. If there was a way to figure out how much ammo has been used by the mexican drug smugglers, it’s so small. It’s tiny. They fire their weapons rarely, and once they do, they’ve got the whole world cracking down on them.
They only need a few rounds. Not a continual supply of massive numbers of bullets. They are not fighting in the trenches. The do a few drive bys, and then if they don’t get taken out in the cross fire, they hide, or throw away their guns, and hide.
The original story is a mis-representation of the facts completely.
The amount of ammunition used by the Mexican Drug cartels, in their murdering, drug dealing operations in MINISCULE compared to the amount of ammo used on gun ranges, and in hunting in the US. The amount of rounds fired in anger in Mexico is a tiny, tiny fraction of the amount of rounds fired every day on ranges in Los Angeles.
In mexico, you cannot practice shooting your illegal ak 47. You can’t bring attention to yourself. Guns are illegal in Mexico. On the occasion that Mexican drug smuggler does fire his weapon, there’s better than 50/50 chance he’ll never fire again. If you added up the total number of drug smugglers in Mexico & the number of rounds they fire over their short careers (before they get killed, or go to jail) it’s just a handful. They need ammo, but they don’t use much. If there was a way to figure out how much ammo has been used by the mexican drug smugglers, it’s so small. It’s tiny. They fire their weapons rarely, and once they do, they’ve got the whole world cracking down on them.
They only need a few rounds. Not a continual supply of massive numbers of bullets. They are not fighting in the trenches. The do a few drive bys, and then if they don’t get taken out in the cross fire, they hide, or throw away their guns, and hide.
Oh if pole were a drug…
Yawn…put me out of my misery… Not scared
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