United States of Europe One Step Closer to Reality?
The leaders of the 27-member European Union met in Brussels on December 8 and 9 under pressure to deliver a decisive solution to Europe’s two-year-old sovereign debt crisis.
But the high-profile summit — which was billed by many as the last chance to save the euro single currency — did little to resolve the immediate crisis at hand, namely the massive debt loads of most European countries and the spiraling costs of borrowing more money to pay off those debts.
Instead, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy (aka “Merkozy”) leveraged the crisis summit to secure a “historic” commitment from all of the 17 countries that use the euro single currency (aka “eurozone countries”) to transfer broad new economic and financial decision-making powers to unelected and unaccountable technocrats in Brussels, the administrative capital of the EU.
The new “fiscal compact” is a major step on the road to creating a single economic government in Europe. By giving Brussels more power to codify and enforce debt limits and impose central oversight of national budgets, the agreement takes the EU one step closer to consolidated and centralized fiscal authority in Europe. Among other features, the agreement also gives the European Court of Justice the right to strike down national laws that conflict with diktats issued by bureaucrats in Brussels, although EU legal experts are still unsure about how this can or will be enforced.
British Prime Minister David Cameron was the only EU leader who refused to go along with what many observers have described as an attempted European coup d’état.
Cameron vetoed the European power grab after Merkozy refused to give Britain — which uses the pound, not the euro — a written promise that the City of London would be exempt from heavy-handed EU rules and regulations that could damage its £46 billion (€54 billion; $72 billion) financial services sector.
In particular, Cameron had demanded that Britain be able to veto any usurpation of regulatory power over financial services from London to Brussels. He was especially keen on avoiding a move towards a Europe-wide financial transaction tax that would see London become a less attractive destination in which to do business.
In this context, Cameron had also insisted on measures that would prevent the eurozone countries from demanding that euro-denominated transactions be conducted in Frankfurt or Paris, something that would reduce the amount of business being done in the City of London.
Cameron’s veto will make life more complicated for Europe’s empire builders. In practical terms, rather than amending the existing Lisbon Treaty, which comprises the constitutional basis for the EU, the other 26 member countries of the EU will now have to forge a completely new “intergovernmental” treaty.
While there isn’t any question that David Cameron is the cause of British economic failings, I don’t think anybody in their right mind would consider this “fiscal compact” to be a policy. The thing is, it isn’t actually a fiscal compact. It is an austerity compact, which means that if the other countries make you, you have to stop spending.
*That* is economic suicide, and its the course Europe is going on.
“While there isn’t any question that David Cameron is the cause of British economic failings..”
Thirteen years (1997-2010) of Labour rule had no hand in it eh? Please sir, you’re embarrassing yourself.
(1)the 13 years of Labor caused the huge economic downfall in the UK(1997-2010)
and
(2)the 8 years of Republican rule DIDN’T cause the huge economic downfall in the US (2000-2008)
It seems to me that 1 and 2 are rather relevant to each other; you’re applying different standards according to the party in power. Think about it before you go with the party line and apply the same type of judgement to everybody, not just those you agree with.
If you did, then you’d blame the Republicans equally as much as you’d blame Labor.
But you don’t, and I’m sure you don’t have a good reason to- but I do. David Cameron’s austerity policies have drastically hurt the British economy, besides ruin the lives of thousands of people. His policies on Europe may be good, but his economics is absolute crap.
“(2)the 8 years of Republican rule DIDN’T cause the huge economic downfall in the US (2000-2008)”
We were speaking of “British economic failings”, but feel free to prodcue red herrings.
“It seems to me that 1 and 2 are rather relevant to each other; you’re applying different standards according to the party in power. Think about it before you go with the party line and apply the same type of judgement to everybody, not just those you agree with.”
I advocated neither, but your very defensive of any pointing out of rightful criticism of the Labour party. Your sacred cow getting skewered, eh?
“But you don’t, and I’m sure you don’t have a good reason to- but I do. David Cameron’s austerity policies have drastically hurt the British economy, besides ruin the lives of thousands of people. His policies on Europe may be good, but his economics is absolute crap.”
Labour dug the hole and Caremon has got to deal with the surroundings. Goes with the job, but feel free to prattle on about “Republicans are to blame” schtick. Our current President plans to make the central part of his reelection campaign.
“While there isn’t any question that David Cameron is the cause of British economic failings”
Ha! Ha! Excuse me? Am I imagining this quote? Where were you between May 1997 and May 2010? Did you have your head stuck in a hole in the ground? Evidently, you did…
Anyone who posts as “Economics” is here to tell us what we ignorant masses simply don’t understand about economics. Don’t you always list your field of expertise as your screen name, just in case people don’t recognize your authority? I’m an expert on all things related to “Dana”.
I just hope that Cameron holds his nerve. I didn’t expect him to have the guts to stand up for the UK on Friday. There will be no justification for his now buckling under the inevitable pressure from Whitehall’s relentlessly pro-Brussels civil service.
I hope that this is the beginning of the end for the european union. Even if it isn’t, I think it should show the way out of the european quagmire for sensible countries. Sweden, which had the sense not to join the euro trainwreck, and Spain, which did join, but was royally s*****d by membership, must be looking for a new association with Brussels. There is no hope for Spain’s economy until Madrid reverts to the Peseta.
Spain and Europe – maybe the Spaniards would still be guest workers in Germany without the EU. However, the Spaniards who stayed here have been very successful and they are fully integrated.
“Cameron vetoed the European power grab after Merkozy refused to give Britain — which uses the pound, not the euro — a written promise that the City of London would be exempt from heavy-handed EU rules and regulations that could damage its £46 billion (€54 billion; $72 billion) financial services sector”
The city of London is a stand alone corporation, a square mile of London that settles most of the worlds currency and metals markets.
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation
it is an interesting entity to read and study how the world settles its commerce through this square mile of London.
The less the UK has to do with the petty dictators of the EU, the better.
Really doesn’t matter if things do get bad for the UK, which I doubt, it is a whole lot better than being tied to some gigantic black snake with the head of a frog. Now, that is where the real trouble is for Britain.
Anything else should be much easier.
Economics: While there isn’t any question that David Cameron is the cause of British economic failings.
Good Lord man, Cameron has only been in office for 18 months! We made our big mistake a long time ago – in 1905 – when we allied ourselves with France. We have had nothing but grief since then.
Michael,
Can you give us some insight on how people in Britain feel about Cameron’s decision? What is your opinion?
About ten years ago the current British Foreign Secretary said we should be in Europe but not run by Europe. That would be my policy and I would guess most English people would think that would be fine. It seems unlikely that Merkozy would agree to that, so I think we should threaten to leave.
Brits love their houses in Provence and Tuscany, and Cameron’s decision will have no impact on that.
The thinking crowd in London at least, would drag Gordon Brown to court if they could; there is anecdotal consensus about that. In earlier times, it could have ended up with beheading or lynching. The Socialist thief messed it up, big way, for Old Blighty. Cameron is just trying to swim instead of sink, with outcome being open to speculation.
I’m British, though currently living in France. I voted for staying in the Common Market (as it then was) in the referendum in the mid 1970s. But what we have now is by no means what I voted for. I ma pleased that Cameron vetoed this treaty attempt, but I think we ought to have a referendum on getting out of Europe. Britain is a member of EFTA (European Free Trade Area) and that should be sufficient. I can’t see any benefit to us from being in Europe as a political institution, which is what it wants to be.
@Soeren
“In fact, European politicians have done little to alleviate the underlying problems facing the eurozone in the near term.”
That’s because they simply have no answers. Merkel let slip a few observations last spring about the futility of bailing out member states as only “buying more time,” but it appears she is completely on board for whatever train wreck this will become. German banks must be sitting on piles of other EU members worthless debt is my hunch, but who knows.
you sit, are an optimist in assuming the reason they have done nothing is they have no answers.
As an EU subject, I know different: the reason Frau Merkel and Monsieur Sarkozy do nothing constructive to solve the economic crisis is that this crisis is serving them very well in their attempts to establish Empire across Europe.
As long as the crisis continues unabated, even gets worse, they can call for, and get, more and more authority from the other EU countries, removing ever more of what’s left of the national sovereignty from the smaller member states and transferring it to their proxies in the European Commission and its bureaucracies (which are both filled with their cronies, who answer to no one but the French and German governments).
That’s why both are constantly pushing for pumping more money into the financial black hole that is Greece, money that comes from all EU countries but their own.
“As an UK subject…” And therein lies the problem. You’re a SUBJECT. We Americans are citizens. Piss on Europe. We’ve bailed them out of two world wars. They haven’t done spit to repay us. We need to cut our ties to the EU. If we choose to deal with individual Euro-nations, that is our perogative, but the Magogists of Europe are idiots bar none. Their one world paradise is doomed to failure.
You are, of course quite right. But why is it a problem? In any case, if I was an American I would want my country to avoid foreign entanglements. Didn’t George Washington say something about this? As an Englishman, I would like MY country to do the same. No more American wars. No more French wars.
You can thank American foreign entanglements that you’re not speaking German right now.
Quite right.
Too bad 20th century American presidents didn’t heed the advice to avoid foreign entanglements. Beginning with the intellectual elite “Democrat” Woodrow Wilson who after World War I designed an international organisation unaccountable to the populations which underwrote it except through political professionals. A “dream” come true for unaccountable power for such professionals. No further need for regular election on the designs by commoners, vulgar ignorant astro-turf, racist-sexist clingers to guns and religion. Following Wilson the Crown Prince of the “Democratic” Party
FD Roosevelt after World War II cloned that international organisation as the United Nations.
The high-sounding name League of Nations induced citzens of the USA to neither notice nor care that their president had ceded their hard-won independence to a foreign “court”. While a failure it became pattern for other power plays :the UN and the EU. The EU also designed by intellectual elite, now failing in much the same manner as the League of Nations to be rechristened the United States of Europe – by hook or by crook by the elite. To rival the by European elite and their wannabees in the USA that much envied and hated upstart nation the United States of America?
Now in the USA, the culmination of designs initiated by Woodrow Wilson, through FD Roosevelt, and a half-century after the “King” of Camelot “Democrat” Kennedy America has a “Democrat” New Kennedy – Messiah to finish the work begun by Woodrow Wilson. This “New Kennedy” bowing and kneeling obeisance to foreign courts.
As always it is good sense to “beware persons who act for the greater good, the good of the people” or who promise “the dictatorship of the Proletariate” who
are themselves the elite, above the People.
.
In Germany we are citizens too, or at least we have been. Even our soldiers have been “Bürger in Uniform”. Now we are only “Menschen” (human beings). And everything has to be explained to us, but we always fail to understand. At least our so-called elite says so. Britain is different. Scotland and Wales tend to have close connections to Europe, for the English Europe is the “continent” simply a large market place to make profits. Making profits is not bad, but one has to agree with its partners about the term “Europe”. A market place, or more?. The Brits speak about democracy but have no problems about enforcing English to be the common language for all of Europe. We, the people of Europe, are proud of our culture and our languages. We do not want to miss one. The Brits are not free, they are prisoners of the financial markets(according to a woman from Northern England).
A Filipino and Japanese businessmen will use English to talk to each other. English gives you the world. The only other language that comes close is Spanish. Mandarin Chinese will have it’s day but it is not now.
“..I know different: the reason Frau Merkel and Monsieur Sarkozy do nothing constructive to solve the economic crisis is that this crisis is serving them very well in their attempts to establish Empire across Europe.”
Exploiting, or creating, a crisis for political gain? I think I’ve seen that before. The only answers I see are the explusion of some member states, another currency for solvant nations or dissolving the EU. One of these will eventually happen despite all the words and press conferences on the contrary.
I don’t disagree with your observations, but me thinks eventually once the EU political establishment has pissed away all the wealth and cannot borrow another coin to keep the social compact with the public (or the heating and lights on)… then the fun begins. I don’t believe the current European poltical leadership is strong, or wise, enough to control the amount of hurt coming. The riots in London and Athens is just a small taste of what is to come all over the continent. Probably setting the stage for the next dictator running on a “peace and prosperity” platform.
I agree. Frightening, isn’t it? God help us all as the US will somehow be pulled in in the end- economically, politically, etc. Now if Cameron could just start making some other wise decisions (i.e. curbing entitlements,immigration and Sharia), then perhaps the UK has a chance.
Wake up and smell the coffee. The EU is going down. The EMU is going down. Anyone on board with these losers is also going down. Why? These institutions were specifically designed by the european elites to be the insturments of big government and thus the means to control the masses. They have no popular democratic support and if opened to a referundum would likely go down in flames. I would like to ask what ONE thing these organizations have done to help the people of europe? By help I mean to prepare them for the cold hard realties of today’s competitive market!! If you have read Hyack and know about the Road to Serfdom and guess what? That is the road they are on except that the serfs of the middle ages had it pretty good compared to what the europeans will face in the next few years.
It would be moderately helpful to those of us in the USA who continue to believe in socialism, national healthcare, un-balanced budgets, staggering debts, and stifling the free market to witness our future as these institutions crash into the ash heap of history. Perhaps the media might warn us!!
The media will be shocked, I tell you. Shocked. Into silence, of course.
So when does Germany take over? The EU is starting to look like the Customs Union that existed before the Empire.
Those were my thoughts when the EU was first being cobbled together: How long before Germany does in the 21st century what it could not do in the 20th century?
Sarkozy is the useful idiot – but this is nothing new for a French leader.
“hell will freeze over” before Finland signs the Merkozy deal as it is structured right now.
“ESM is dead in the water and once again thanks to the arrogant crushers of democracy and destroyers of sovereignty Merkel and Sarkozy absolutely NOTHING has been solved.
It would require 133 seats(2/3 of parliament) to approve recent EU-agreement where unanimous decision making has been removed from ESM. Since The Finns party led by Timo Soini and Center Party are both opposed this will NOT happen.
Further the Social Democrats (In Finnish government with Coalition party and a bunch of smaller parties) have also said through Finance minister Jutta Urpilainen that they will NOT support majority decisions in ESM and one smaller party Christian Democrats also said the same recently. Practically only real supporter is Mr. Katainen who is the most euro enthusiastic politician in Finland.”
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/12/hell-will-freeze-over-before-finland.html
Good on Cameron. If he had signed off on this, in precisely how many years would the British find their treasury, the “corporation” of London, being pillaged of it’s wealth for the “common good and needs of the Eurozone.”
Allston, if I’m not mistaken, it would have happened sooner rather than years in the future. Wasn’t levying significant fees on every transaction in and out of the London financial markets part of the proposed plan?
These questions always require me to do research, which is a fine thing.
From Wiki: “The proposed EU-wide tax – 0.1% tax on bond and equity transactions, and 0.01% on derivative transactions between financial firms – should support European countries in crisis.[52]”
Interesting how the tax is stated, isn’t it? “should support European countries in crisis.” What kind of crisis? Determined by who? Under what conditions?
I suspect what Cameron and the business leaders of London understood was that once much of their financial sovereignty is transferred to faceless bureaucrats in Brussels, there really is nothing to stop them at a later date from deciding that in the interests of increased tax revenues, perhaps those taxes should more properly be 1% and 0.1%. And then 5% and 2%. And so on.
I’m not sure the London financial houses are entirely innocent in all of this. I do know that they were instrumental in inventing and/or promoting the credit default swap, which became rather infamous in the 2008 economic debacle. London still an area of somewhat free-wheeling financial dealings and speculation. Which, in the good times, makes it very flush with profit and a target of taxation, so it’s no wonder both the UK and the EU are interested in preserving their interest in it. However, because of their branches in London, many US banks are still exposed to a great deal of risk, of which (as in 2008) no one really knows the extent. So it may be that the EU really is justified in attempting to regulate those London banks.
“Among other features, the agreement also gives the European Court of Justice the right to strike down national laws that conflict with diktats issued by bureaucrats in Brussels, although EU legal experts are still unsure about how this can or will be enforced.”
This is all a bunch of junk. NONE of these “laws” are going to be inforced. How can they? Are you really telling me that if France misses some budget targets for one year, Germany is going to tell them what to do? Likewise, are you going to tell me that France is now going to take over Spain’s finances because of how poorly that country is doing economically? Forget it. You are dealing with nations that have distrusted and fought each other for centuries, and now you’re going to change all of that with one swipe of the pen? The Europeans are great at talking, and talking, and more talking, but they rarely come up with any concrete proposals that either make sense or are actually followed by all of the member nations. This is NOT some sort of little trade agreement all of these nations are going to have to follow. If you think all, and let me repeat that, ALL of these nations (excluding Britain, God bless them) are going to give up their national sovereignty just to be fiscally solvent, forget it. This is all smoke-and-mirrors and doesn’t stand a chance of actually working.
The motley band of ex-communist grifters who run the EU have, in their desire to create a politically correct version of the Soviet Union wrecked Europe, perhaps for ever if they succeed in letting in millions of moors from North Africa live in Europe.
The Euro is a farce – lost cost airlines such as EasyJet and RyanAir, by allowing people to spend cash in otherwise inaccessible cities has done more good than all the idiots from Brussels put together.
And may Britain untangle all the EU regulations. One of the first yarn-spinning firms of the Industrial Revolution (yes, Victorian England) had to quit making some of its colors b/c they didn’t meet EU requirements. That’s messed up. Capitalism is supposed to be more, more,more, not the scrap-heap of history.
Maybe they’ll manufacture and sell 100 watt lightbulbs, available for shipping.
History indicates that in this world, either your a nation advancing or a nation being advanced upon. If nations aren’t advancing upon each other ,they’re advancing on themselves, or both. If we fool ourselves into thinking we can exist above the fray or somewhere in between,as Europe is, we will exist no more.
For all practical purposes, positioning yourself in the middle inevitably degenerates into non-advancement, decline, that can only result in being advanced upon. With the likely hood of advancement upon itself, from within.
Oh well, it’s the nature of the beast.
Merry Christmas!
You can make an argument that the true godfather of all of this is Otto von Bismarck. It was Bismarck who pulled off the first large scale “centralization” of European states when he welded the various German kingdoms, statelets, principalities and independent duchies into the German Empire from 1862 to 1890. Bismarck’s legacy wasn’t only one of amalgamation but he also bequeathed to us basics of the modern welfare state with his social legislation of the 1880′s. Bismarck cared little for the “working man” but he used these programs to co-opt the socialists and used welfare-state principals to provide the cement that attached the German people to the new empire.
The total fusion of all of Europe into one “country” would have appealled to Bismarck provided that it took place, as it appears to be doing, under the auspices of German authoritarianism. Certainly Bismarck would have been pleased by the idea that real power in such a system would be wielded by a faceless bureucracy accountable only to the Euro-elites while, at the same time, these same elites propose lavish social programs to keep the masses quiet. I can almost see Bismarck at one of the conferences in Belgium joyously, coldly and pragmatically steering the EU to even greater dominance of it’s member states.
You could be not more wrong. Bismarck and Kaiser Wilhelm I, former king of Prussia, succeeded in uniting Germany , without Austria, that’s why it is called “kleindeutsche” solution. The rival of the Prussians was the Habsburg empire. However, the Prussians did not want Habsburg with Hungry and the Czechs in Germany. In 1870, all German tribes, except Austria, fought against Napoleon III who had declared war in order to avoid a united Germany. In 1848 and before, the people of Germany already wanted to unite the German states. It failed but the Grundgesetz of 1948 is very similar to the version introduced in 1848.To unite Germany under Prussian influence differed from the meeting of the citizens in the Frankfurter Paulskirche. But Germans longed for unification because those small German states had no chance against the growing number of ethnic states under one government. The song “Deutschland, Deutschland über alles” expresses such longing. “über alles” in this context simply means “I wish Germany more than anything else”(It did not exist then). Oh, I forgot to mention that France, Spain, Italy and Britain have districts where people want to be independent. No German land wants to leave Germany – though for us in Baden-Württember independence would be very profitable.
By the way, Nana Muskouri, the great Greek singer, (weisse Rosen aus Athen)(white Roses from Athen)said in an interview with Welt online: “Germany should not pay for other countries” and “Freiheit braucht Verantwortung” (liberty/freedom needs responsibility). Well, all you German haters: Through us out of the Euro, through us out of the EU. We would thank you.
Sorry, it should read “throw us out.”
Correction: Sorry, it should read “throw us out”.
Perhaps I expressed myself badly. My idea was that if Bismarck were alive today AND he was also a committed EU eurocrat (a stretch I will admit) then the template he established in building the German Empire would be transferable to the goals of the current Brussels elite. I fully agree that the REAL Bismarck (the ultimate pragmatist)knew when enough was enough and closed up shop when he had it.
Bismark did not want anymore of Europe than Germany. After fighting 3 wars to unify Germany, Bismark felt that was it. Job done. Germany after 1880′s did not need anymore land. Handing the Pols or French the power to effect German laws through the EU would never have happened under Bismark.
As long as Michael Lewis writes what is rejected by people who fear the loss of face the most – Michael will emerge triumphant over those who are too clever by half.
Brussels is on a road that sees Michael lewis as poorly as Nasrallah views anyone who calls him an Amalekite. In other words, he is part of the problem, not the solution.
Sarkozy’s comment reflects a mindset that pervades the EU as a whole, namely that the “Anglo-Saxon” economic model of free markets and capitalism is to blame for Europe’s problems, and not the “European Social Welfare” economic model of high taxes and heavy regulation. As a result, there are few things European elites would love as much as to see the destruction of the British economy.
Then the answer seems to be revealing itself.
America is the lynchpin and we all must wait until November, 2012.
The stale Marxist welfare crash vs the free market fresh air recovery.
The French can hold onto the former…America will save her mother from disaster by joining forces on the “new dollar”…and countries can pick their economic model.
America and the Brits will forge an alliance based upon fiscal sanity and the small c communists can engage in futile fantasy. France can maintain her petty jealousies right into crushing oblivion.
Italy and Spain can make a choice, austerity and belt-tightening are harsh medicines, but they beat starvation and bankruptcy. Greece may be beyond repair.
It has become painfully clear that we have reached the economic Rubicon. Marxists must go their own way, free market enterprisers the other.
Never the twain shall meet. Build out the two models, let each country declare and let’s move on. Trying out these insane hybrids is helping nobody. We are trying to breed a stallion with a sloth. Whatever comes out is infertile, grotesque and unnatural.
“SOME ECONOMISTS ARGUE that ultimately the ECB will have to intervene more aggressively BY BUYING LARGE QUANTITIES OF BONDS OF LARGE TROUBLED COUNTRIES, in order to prevent borrowing costs for Italy, Spain, and other countries from becoming so high that they are unable to refinance their debt.”
So let me get this straight….“economists” think it’s a good idea for the European Central Bank depositors to exchange their life’s savings for these worthless bonds when it’s a really bad idea for anyone else to do so? Uh….where do these economists figure the ECB will get the cash to return to their depositors once they’re out of money but flush with irredeemable bonds?
Cameron should read today’s WSJ. Big article on how continental banks have tied themselves up to the wazoo with credit default swaps. The whale is going to blow with toxic “assets” (obligations). There will be no Paulson this time around to pretend cds’ are anything else but frauds and toxic waste.
The UK, EU sovereigns, and now the world, have an interesting muddle going – the hypothecations and re-hypothecations and other Alice in Wonderland securities in the financial sector, now to the tune of at least $600 trillion, and not carried ‘on the books’ of any bank, ultimately will hit the non-financial sector, namely, taxpayers, of the world and sweep away every notion of fiat currency.
These ‘securities’ have nothing but air underneath them and as one bank falls and then another the domino effect of this casino run by banks and other financial institutions (wonder where MF Global’s money went?) will lead, repeat, will lead to sovereign debt chaos, defaulting and wild swings of deflation followed by currency printing presses running at light speed. And that’s the easy part. When bank accounts simply evaporate and trade staggers because financial instruments cannot be relied upon then the taxpayers and those that don’t pay taxes will find out the true meaning of Depression and this Kabuki theatre of the EU and the UK will close out for lack of attendance.
That these hypothecations are centered in the London financial square, enterprises that Cameron does not want to be affected by international rules, indicates how nasty this business will get as national pride and banking greed intersect in every country – this is how wars begin – first in finance then in trade and then in embargoes and finally guns. One cannot deny Cameron’s logic, nor deny the EU’s logical need to grab all power possible – they will need it, just as any dictatorship needs total power to rule.
To put it colluquially: the governments of the world have become enablers of a casino to big to fail run by sociopaths who soon will drop a dime to cover the house. In fact, they have already made the call.
A very good approximation. As I have written elsewhere, the house of cards must come down. If apocalypse can be man-made, this will be it. Such is the price of prosperity bubble when the chickens come home to roost. I would love to hear Mrs Thatcher say now, “You have had it too good, for too long.”
It really is unbelievable! Who, in their right mind, would desire to ‘get into bed’ with Merkel and Sarkozy? I don’t profess to be an economist, but it is patently obvious to anyone with an ounce (or should that be 64.7 grammes?) of common sense, that 17 member states, all at different stages of the economic cycle, could subscribe to a common currency. If it wasn’t so tragic it would be laughable! Get real people, the whole exercise is to enable the ‘chosen few’ to reserve their seats on the great European ‘Gravy Train’. It certainly beats working for a living! Have a look around you! Unelected ‘leaders’ are being ‘installed’ where necessary. Democracy? Please, don’t insult my intelligence! Thank God for David Cameron! Hold your nerve Sir! none of them are fit to clean your boots!
Precisely, though it would be 29.5 grams to a troy ounce, but being a French devised standard, who cares.
That’s roughly an avoirdupois ounce (28.3495231 grams) A Troy ounce is 31.1034768 grams. Traditional weights are interesting: http://home.clara.net/brianp/weights.html
re “By giving Brussels more power to codify and enforce debt limits and impose central oversight of national budgets, the agreement takes the EU one step closer to consolidated and centralized fiscal authority in Europe.”
Perhaps so, but what will constitute “Enforcement’? A sternly worded letter? The EU in its current formation decrees deficit limits as a pct of GDP and yet everyone cheats and ignores the rules. Why will it be any different under a new treaty?
Here’s hoping Cameron’s defiance of rule by Brussels indicates the reports of the death of Britain have been premature.
United States of Europe One Step Closer to Reality?
Hasn’t that been their intention all along??
My take:
http://www.larrymylesreports.com/December_2011.htm
Not a fan of the EU and I think I make my point quite clearly.
Must say, Europeans are really hard headed.
Just can’t seem to let go of a tried and failed socialism model. They have marinated socialism, sauteed it, baked, fried, boiled, sun dried, even air dried it…and the results are always the same…failed socialism.
This has to be Europe’s umpteenth try at massaging a dead heart to life…just ain’t goin’ to happen. Imagine, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire they’ve been diddling with variant forms of socialism…some a “lite” form of it, others a more “perverse” quirky form, alway with the same results:riots, uprisings, popular disgust and culminating in wars.
And this show in ineptitude is what Mr. Obama is displaying for all Americans to witness, like, embrace and implement here? In the USA? Just boggles the mind.
Only system that works, over the long haul is capitalism…it correctly allocates the scarce resources of:land, labor and capital most efficiently. Period. God Bless American Capitalism.
How anyone can come out of the 20th century and be a Socialist is beyond me. The new European “plan” is more central planing and more central dictates.
Let the national currencies return. Spain, Italy and Greece can repudiate there debts with the printing press. Then who cares if Greece bond yields go to 15%. It wont effect the savings of German workers.
But as long as the euro’s future hangs in the balance, expect European leaders to continue to exploit the crisis to consolidate more power in Brussels. They will argue: “There can be no currency union without fiscal union, and no fiscal union without political union.”
OK, so where is that “European Army” that is going to have a monopoly on the means of violence to enforce the fiscal and political union that has here-to-for not been enforced during the gravy years by any of the current elites or nations? An army, more over, that will require more funding and tax support from those same nations that are currently miserly with their NATO contributions, a NATO organization that does not exist to bomb the member states for bond defaults and the repossession of dead beat sovereign taxes and property. When the various peoples discover they can’t vote out these fiscal sucking elites in Brussels, what do you think the current price of an AK47 will be on the Balkan’s black market?
The comments are focussed on the decisions of the EU meeting in Brussels and Britain’s decision to include itself out. But can the decision of the “leaders” to reorganize and move central government to Brussels be effected without ratification by the citizens of the 26 nations involved? It is my recollection that when the “leaders” of the Union tried, some years ago,to do the same thing – establish a central Parliament – and the matter went to a vote, the electorate in France and Germany emphatically turned it down. Brussels and the European Central Bank just pretended nothing had happened and went ahead with their plans anyway.
It is one thing for the leaders to agree on moving to instituting central government but surely this important action cannot take place without the prior approval of the electorate in each of the presently sovereign nations. I seriously question whether their citizens would go along this time either.
Thank you for a very informative article Mr. Kern.
And a special thank you to you ‘messup’ for your defense of American Capitalism.
“Must say, Europeans are really hard headed.
Just can’t seem to let go of a tried and failed socialism model. They have marinated socialism, sautéed it, baked, fried, boiled, sun dried, even air dried it…and the results are always the same…failed socialism.”
My hope is that voting out the Communist cancer of Obama and his elves will set loose a flood of ‘common sense’ to the failing ‘hard headed’ nations of Europe!
Of course if the ’what me work’ crowd along with those who want to pay their bills with ‘Obama money have their way – then ‘coupe’ will be the word of the day!
Not a riot – not a few burned trash barrels and broken windows – a well planed ‘coupe’ would have to do!
While reading of all the doom and gloom predicted for UK for daring to deny Napoleon and Hitlers ( oops sorry Sarkosy and Merkel’s) domination of the EU I am reminded that evading the French , German and Spanish domination of Europe was what turned the UK in to the Worlds first global superpower and stimulated its overseas trading which resulted in the Industrial Revolution, the benefits of which are still being felt across the world felt. It also resulted in that Jingoistic imaginary but extremely funny UK newspaper headline ” Fog in the Channel Europe isolated”
It is obvious that the recent agreement for seeking the modification of the Lisbon Treaty governing the EU in order to win the control of fiscal policies of the member states is a desperate attempt by Germany to bring all of the EU under her control through Brussels.
The piece that really calls it like it is, “Heroic Britain’s ‘NO’….While Europe Moves Towards Dictatorship” says that “Germany wants to control Europe through the ECB and Brussels”. They are referring to a dictatorship of the Bureaucracy of Brussels and the lost of sovereignty of the nations of Europe.
Read all at http://www.RAChronicle.com
They warn of economic consequences for the US that we are not fully accounting for at the moment.
I don’t think the euro and the Eurozone will survive long enough to be a United States of Europe. This is planning for five or ten years down the line- but the financial collapse will occur long before then and I don’t really see much in this agreement that will stop that from happening.
Answer to Ruebacca: You say it: business men. That’s o.k. However, economy is only one element of life, an important one but not the most important. English gives you the world? A very narrow world, because language carries meanings and the Japanese and the Philippine people might use the English language but give very different meanings to the words they utter. Corporations only respect culture in regard to profit. That’s not enough for most people in this world and
definitely not enough for most Europeans.
“That’s not enough for most people in this world and definitely not enough for most Europeans.”
Welche Fremdsprache lernt die Studenten am meisten in Deutschland? Na ja, so ist es.
Dein Weltbild ist eng genug, so siehst aus, aber du wirst bald herausfinden wie die Welt kann sein ohne “Profit.” Deine Glaube in Sozialismus ist merkwürdig, aber das kannst du nicht essen.
You say it: Fremdsprache. Years ago, all German school children learned at least French and English, but now everything is reduced to English. Does that broaden one’s view of the world? “Dein Weltbild is eng genug, so siehst aus..?” You amuse me. You really think that I am not only narrow-minded but I even look like that? Even now, my husband would be furious. He was always proud of the way I looked. However , somehow I looked far more progressive or so when I was twenty, I have to admit. Socialism? I had to work in Paris and in Britain for being able to study there. But these are experiences too. I do not know how long you have been in Germany, but many years ago Germany was a very fair and just society and many Germans, including myself, have been very proud of our country. We never have been a socialist country, because within families, parents have to care not only for their children but for their own parents too if they had/have enough money to do so. We had to contribute to my mother-in-law’s living- no problem for us. But that I should not only contribute to the life standard of the Greeks and the Italian(who have a very high one) but also take over their future debts, I see very negative. The worst, however, is that you(in this case the Anglo-Americans) blame us of intending to take over Europe. I view this as an insult. Who is narrow-minded? Those who work hard and try to settle things or those who speculate and buy cars they cannot afford and expect the Germans to pay for all of that? I am so narrow-minded that I and my family prefer to travel and see the rest of the world we have not seen. The option that we stay here and try to bail out everybody I flatly reject. You seem to speak a rather good Deutsch. Das ist gut. Üben Sie weiter.
Your problem Marianne is exactly the same as ours. There are the German politicians – and there are the people. It is like that in the UK as well; most of us want to be semi-detached from the EU, but our politicians love the EU gravy train. But you Germans will be hated soon, as your bureaucrats take charge in Athens, Lisbon, Dublin etc. And just wait till you send someone to take control in Paris! The UK can’t stop any of this – but you Germans can!
The writer, who gives everything that happened at the EU meeting a negative slant, has obviously not understood the purpose of the meeting. The meeting was not about a solution, the meeting was about creating the preconditions for a solution. Mainly to no longer depend on fussy intentions or verbal promises of EU members to act fiscally responsible and ask them to legally obligate themselves by putting a signature under a contract which is enforceable by a court of law. This makes more sense than just verbal agreements and has the advantage that, in case Spain spends too much money it doesn’t have, it will not be Germany or any other country that will Spain dictate what to do, it will be a, hopefully independent, court. This will eliminate future accusations that one member is dictating to another member how to properly husband its recourses out of selfish nationalistic interest. I think that is a good starting point although the details have to be worked out. There is nothing wrong with the idea to give substance to a promise by signing a contract that would clearly define each members legal obligations. No one is forced to sign -as we can see in the case of GB. Once these contracts are signed and future fiscal iniquities are, hopefully, made less likely, a solution for the present problems that mare the EU can be worked out -under greatly improved conditions
Great Britain’s wish to have a particular segment of its economy super-protected and immunised from competition is unreasonable in the context of a united Europe. What is next? Germany wants its sauerkraut protected and Sweden its wood-chips and Italy its lasagne-sauce?
The writer also likes to refer to “the power-grab in Brussels.” What does this mean? It is like every-time the US federal government wants to introduce a new legislation calling it “the power-grab in Washington.” Brussels is the geographical location of the European government, not more nor less. The article disqualifies itself with its abundance of negative connotations.
Give me the voter percentages for members of European Parliament to demonstrate they have popular mandate. Then I shall be happy to entertain your talk about negativism.
do you know the difference between direct and indirect democracy?
Are you Mexican?