U.S. Stumbles on Palestinian Statehood Vote
The Obama administration is sending mixed signals again: their words point one way; their actions, another.
The White House stated its opposition to the Palestinian Authority (PA) bid for non-member state status in the UN, but declined to mobilize its and Israel’s traditional allies. It also appears the administration pressured senators to reject three amendments to the Defense Authorization bill that would have penalized the PLO, the UN, and countries receiving U.S. foreign assistance that voted against the U.S. position. One rejected amendment would have shut off all PA funding if the Palestinians seek to take Israel to the International Criminal Court.
Thus while voicing support for Israel, the administration actually gave its backing to Mahmoud Abbas in his successful UN bid to change Palestine’s status.
Our allies surely understood what the U.S. was doing. The U.S. supports and maintains the Palestinian Authority in crucial ways, particularly with money, but it also provides an American general, strategic intelligence, training, and backing for the security forces that protect Abbas (the IDF protects him from Hamas). While it is hard to imagine him flying in the face of serious American opposition, he didn’t think he had any — and he was right.
However, the U.S. decision — coupled with its stumbling through the Egyptian political crisis and the Syrian civil war — may put Abbas and Palestinian statehood seriously at risk.
Hamas just declared a dramatic (though thoroughly false) victory over Israel. It has broken out of diplomatic isolation though visits from the emir of Qatar and his checkbook, from the foreign minister of Egypt, and from what may be new consideration from the European Union, although an EU spokesman has backtracked somewhat on that. Turkey’s Prime Minister Erdogan is considering a visit to Gaza as well. Creating upgraded status for “Palestine” while Hamas is rising and Fatah is facing domestic disarray and a cash crunch creates almost irresistible incentives for Hamas to finish the 2007 civil war, to knock off Fatah, and to announce the extension of its rule over all of “Palestine.” In a further, odd boost to those hopes, Abbas just agreed that Hamas could hold a rally in the West Bank, something forbidden since their civil war.
The UNGA resolution appears to apply to both the West Bank and Gaza. While the resolution was “without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the PLO in the UN as the representative of the Palestinian people,” it doesn’t appear to care who rules on the ground. Fatah, Hamas, whatever.
The U.S. didn’t stumble, not at all. The Islamist-in-Chief instructed his surrogates to vote ‘present’, even though they feigned to object to said statehood. The fact of the matter is that the elder Bush instructed Baker (hardly friends of Israel) to block any attempt to admit the PLO into the UN’s halls, as any kind of terror statelet!
However, Bush’s team dealt with facts on the ground and considered what was in America’s best interests. However, the anti-American POTUS has no such designs, therefore, he plays ‘good cop/bad cop’ and expects to get away with it.
And with most of the public he has. They are clueless. However, this should set the HISTORICAL record straight – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/09/27/another-arab-leader-spills-the-beans-the-palestinians-as-a-separate-people-do-not-exist-adina-kutnicki/
ADINA: You are absolutely right! What we think are Obama’s stumbles are, in reality, events in his plan to bring us down! He appears to us to stumble, but he is carrying out his plan, with a lot of help from his many czars, as well as the liberal media. There are high-ranking Muslims to be found all through his administration and his many advisors, including the woman who seems to be always at his side(Not Michelle, his wife!). She is a fervent antiAmerican person!
I am an adopted Israeli now because I am ashamed of MOST jewish (J) Americans who voted for Obama and don’t care about Israel. When will they realize that they as well as Israel are also in danger???? NEVER!!!
US stumbles on Palestinians? The US has and is stumbling on her Middle East foreign policy since decades. This is the truth. After WW2, the US rose as a superpower, and still being a young and inexperienced power made too many strategic mistakes. Today, for a keen long term observer, it is obvious. This present US Admin is even more foolish than the previous ones. Want some examples?: In 1956 during the Sinai campaign the US sided with Egypt against the British, French and Israel. Egypt (Pres. Nasser) nationalized in 1956 the Suez Canal which was under British control since 1937. The US retracted afterwards the offer to finance the Aswan Dam. The West so lost the Suez Canal. After the Yom Kippur War the US Admin forced Israel to hand over the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt for a peace of paper. Today we see the deleterious results! And further down the road, the US swallowed the entire false Palestinian narrative. During all the decades past, Israel paid a heavy price and still counting. By leaving Iraq, the US, without having been able to “arrange for” a friendly Iraqi Govt, the US has practically handed Iraq to Iran on a silver plate (sorry, golden plate). I’m not mentioning the mistakes before Khomeini returned to Iran. The US stumbled in Iran policy in the ’80ies completely. Israel is heavily and unnecessarily pressured by the US which should be an ally. In short, the US is conducting foreign policy with a hammer, and is acting as a parvenu. Britain has lost its empire…alas after a long time retaining it, the US will lose her influence much quicker; and the signs are again obvious…for the ones who can observe. The US should stop with thinking short term gain, which always results in long term damage. It should be the other way round.
The proper foreign policy for the United States and the Western World is to use Israel as a crowbar into the Middle East – precisely what the Muslims are afraid of. If Islam changes, becoming more benign, it will fail as a political weapon. That would be good for the world and all the individuals who inhabit it.
Unfortunately, Western Europe and now the United States are seeking to strengthen Islam. It is not because they agree with its principles and beliefs, but because they seek a buffer from the encroachment of China and/or Russia, i.e., from Communism with a capital “C”. Of course, the oil supplies of the Middle East and the huge market for goods produced in the West also play a role, though not the decisive one since trade relations continue even when underlying philosophies are polar opposites. The reason Western Europe needs Islam is because its falling populations preclude a hearty defense of their cultural values. There are just not enough people to fight for the sovereignty of Western democracy. The fascist leanings of the European elites fit well with the ramrod rigid approach of Islam.
Everyone reaps the fruits of their labors. Europe will suffer grievously from its sniveling arrogance. America will suffer from its search for benevolent government as a parental substitute. Islam will be hoisted (or foisted) on its own petard. The Jews will just suffer, but they will survive.
The real problem Obama faced in dealing with the recent UN vote isn’t a matter of tactics or strategy. The problem is that Israel is in the wrong and keeps putting itself further in the wrong. There aren’t any good arguments against attempting to put some limits on Tel Aviv’s current policy of ethnic cleansing.
Jim, are you really so ignorant, or are you just playing the fool? If “Tel Aviv” (can’t you say “Israel”?) is engaged in ethnic cleansing, they’re doing a piss-poor job of it. The Arab population within Israel is almost 10 times today what it was in 1948, and the Arab populations of Gaza and the West Bank continue to grow.
Arabs killed more Arabs in Syria in the last few days than Israel killed in the last year or two. Only a few years ago the Lebanese Army pounded a Palestinian “refugee camp” to rout out a jihadi rebel group, killing hundreds and leaving thousands homeless. Hundreds of thousands of Black Sudanese (Muslims in Darfur, Christians and Animists in southern Sudan) lost their lives at the hands of Arab Sudanese. Now *that* is “ethnic cleansing”.
It should also be noted that if anyone is doing ethnic cleansing, it’s the Muslims cleansing Judea and Samaria of its Christian population. Although the overall Arab population of Judea and Samaria has grown, the Christian population has shrunk considerably.
No Raymond he is no ignorant. He is just one of these people who supports anyone wantying to finish Hitler’s work That is why he supports those who dance in the street when a Jewish baby is decapitated in his cradle, all wgile reamaining utterly indifferent yo the _real_ ethnic cleansing on the Copts and the genocide of Darfir people. Just nig.. for hil.
Actually my comments are in accord with the judgement a rapidly increasing percentage of Jews worldwide. Israel may be able to face off the world indefinitely—it is, after all, a major nuclear power—but the phenomenon of Jewish disidentification with the state of Israel is a more immediate threat. What is really corrosive is that distaste for what is happening now is leading a lot of people to ask whether Zionism itself was always a moral error.
By the way, I don’t think it’s going to help much to denounce the Jewish critics of Israel as self-hating Jews. The ones I know, and I know a lot of ‘em, don’t hate themselves at all. They simply have a different set of values than the blood and soil nationalists of the Israeli right. Indeed, they base their criticism of contemporary Israel on what they think of as traditional Jewish values.
Jim, I don’t need to insult you, your comment alone is an insult to intelligence and to history and I guess I don’t have to add more.
Every self-hating Jew that I’ve ever had the displeasure of knowing, has a deep-seated hatred towards their parents and/or grandparents. It has nothing to do with values. I’m willing to bet that he has no idea what traditional Jewish values are. He’s probably gay (not that there’s anything wrong with that) and like some gay Jews, hates Jews because of the biblical stance on gay intercourse. I want to emphasize that I have family members and friends that are gay and Jewish, but they’re all very Zionist.
Actually, I’m not Jewish (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
So you’re not a self-hating Jew. You’re just a garden-variety anti-Semite. I was right about the fact that you’re gay, though, wasn’t I?
The real problem is Islam and the thinking it engenders. Until the political elite and the regular media realize the truth about it, not much is going to change. The fact that the use of the term “Islamic Jihad” has been banned by Obama and company shows that those currently in power haven’t got the foggiest notion what is really going on. I suspect that because Obama is Muslim, he tends to side with them out of loyalty to a religion that he learned about as a child. Whether he actually understands its tenets is another matter. Note: In an interview in 2008 he let it slip that he is Muslim.
Islam and Muslim thinking hasn’t changed all that much in over 1400 years. If anything, it has gotten worse. However, sheer ignorance of Islam and Muslim history has increased many times over, particularly with the number of Islamic apologists now working in our universities and colleges who would rather teach their version of the facts then the truth. For instance Muslims have been every bit as imperialistic as Europeans. Muslims colonized countries. They have killed indigenous peoples or taken them as slaves. They don’t apologize for it and we need to stop as well. What happened in the past needs to stay there. We need to learn from our mistakes and go forward. Many Muslims would prefer to go backwards. We need to wake up and get the truth out there.
Obama is increasingly showing evidence of fhis Muslim allegiance. He is no more a genuine Christian that my pet poodle! As this piece says at the top, Obama gives mixed signals, saying one thing and doing another. Charles Krauthammer, the paralyzed man who appears regularly on Fox News once said, “Don’t listen to what Obama says; watch what he does”. And I agree completely! Obama’s background is extremely vague and murky. Now that he has been re-elected, with a subversive voter purchase, he will really let go with his unAmerican feelings and will bring us down to the level of a third world nation. Some think Obama makes certain mistakes in what he does, but they are not mistakes that we marvel at. They are parts of his scheme to bring America’s wealth down because, as he has said, our wealth is an offence to the Arab nations in the Middle East. Obama’s father had a venomous hate for America and he passed it on to Barrack. And Michelle has a big load of it too! I pray that there will be enough of our American culture left in four years that we will be able to service and rebuild! But we need to be alert and proactive and fight for America’s survival!
Why would you think I’m gay? It’s not like I was a Republican congressman.
You are really a fine specimen, but the question is, a specimen of what? What on earth does the two-state solution to the Palestinian problem have to do with anybody’s sexual preferences? I guess the pan-homosexual conspiracy has merged in your mind with the theory that every Muslim on the planet is plotting to take over Peoria.
As I’ve pointing out before. The Zionist criticism of Jews who have problems with the policies of Israel is coming to be a new form of anti-semitism. (To be clear, I’m well aware there are plenty of people who identify as Zionist who aren’t happy with what’s being done in their name. Zionism means different things to different people.)
What else is your motive for being anti-Semitic? A disproportionate number of anti-Semites are gay for the simple reason that the image of an Arab is more sexually appealing than that of a Jew. What is the stereotypical image of an Arab? Swarthy, in flowing robes, in the beautiful desert, in a tent with other swarthy men, where the women are relegated to the kitchen and are treated as second-class citizens. It’s no secret that Arab and Islamic culture unofficially encourage homosexual relations. Islam’s intolerance of homosexuality is just a facade. Gays are persecuted in Arab and Islamic society, but not for being gay, just for being open about it. What’s the stereotypical image of a Jew? An old man with a long beard, in dark clothing, selling diamonds on 47th street, who’s henpecked by his domineering wife. Certainly not as romantic an image as that of an Arab.
I don’t believe in any homosexual conspiracy. I believe that most gays are not anti-Semitic. All I believe is that a disproportionate number of anti-Semites are gay.
It’s interesting to note that you haven’t denied being gay.
Also, if you’re not Jewish, how is your comment about anti-Semitic Jews relevant.
Anybody can identify themselves as Zionist. That doesn’t mean they are. I can identify myself as a Buick, (after all, “Buick” means different things to different people) that doesn’t mean I am one.
If Zionism means different things to different people, then please provide a list of some of the differing definitions of Zionism.
Your sexual hangups are very familiar to those of us who study the American right wing. You’ve dreamed up an entire Arabian-Nights fantasy to explain how anybody can disagree with you. Kinda creepy,
The whole business is very peculiar. I live in San Francisco where, whatever you’ve been told, most people are straight (not that there’s anything wrong with that). If I wanted to be gay, however, there would hardly be much of a social cost since even the straight majority tends to be very tolerant in these parts. Thing is, though, I’m just not sexually attracted to men. Conservatives, on the other hand, apparently are, even if they manage somehow to hang on to their heterosexuality by dint of sheer willpower. Ergo the bit about those Arabs, which are, we’re told “swarthy, in flowing robes, in the beautiful desert.” I guess it’s all that Anonymous can do not to go down on the nearest guy in the bus, even if he doesn’t wear flowing robes, etc. Which is why he populates his imagination with people with the same inclinations as his own.
You make me laugh. I didn’t dream up the Arabian nights fantasy. You asked what sexual orientation has to do with views on the invented people vs. Israeli conflict and I answered that. Of course as is typical of demagogues, you haven’t disputed anything I said, because you can’t. You just start engaging in name-calling and insults.
How is any of the following relevant to my arguments and how does it refute anything I said:
“I live in San Francisco where, whatever you’ve been told, most people are straight (not that there’s anything wrong with that). If I wanted to be gay, however, there would hardly be much of a social cost since even the straight majority tends to be very tolerant in these parts. Thing is, though, I’m just not sexually attracted to men. Conservatives, on the other hand, apparently are, even if they manage somehow to hang on to their heterosexuality by dint of sheer willpower. Ergo the bit about those Arabs, which are, we’re told “swarthy, in flowing robes, in the beautiful desert.” I guess it’s all that Anonymous can do not to go down on the nearest guy in the bus, even if he doesn’t wear flowing robes, etc. Which is why he populates his imagination with people with the same inclinations as his own.”
It’s not relevant to anything. Like most demagogues, you’re just too immature and simple-minded to support your own demagoguery. So you resort to name-calling and epithets. I haven’t said anything offensive about you. Even if I believed and said you were gay, that’s not an insult. It’s just relevant to my argument.
“I guess it’s all that Anonymous can do not to go down on the nearest guy in the bus”. That sounds pretty homophobic to me. Even if I were gay, how would that be relevant? By the way, I’m not conservative. I’m libertarian, which I means I staunchly support same-sex marriage and the right of same-sex couples to adopt children. I just believe that people who have been historically persecuted and discriminated against (gays, African-Americans, American Indians, etc.), who hate Jews and Israel, do so because we’re successful and the invented people are failures.
I still haven’t heard you clearly and unequivocally deny that you’re gay.
We you go around making assumptions about other people’s sexuality, you better expect that people will return the favor.
My secret is out, though. I’m not homosexual, but I do have a thing about horses…
Swarthy, Arabian horses, galloping across the desert, and into the sunset…
“We you go around making assumptions about other people’s sexuality, you better expect that people will return the favor.
My secret is out, though. I’m not homosexual, but I do have a thing about horses…
Swarthy, Arabian horses, galloping across the desert, and into the sunset…”
Even if I made assumptions about your sexuality, which I didn’t (I only said you’re probably gay), I wasn’t offensive or graphic about it. The fact that you were offended by being suspected of being gay is further proof that you’re a homophobe. Perhaps I got it wrong. Maybe you hate Israel, because Israel is the only country in the Middle East that doesn’t persecute gays. Perhaps you sympathize with the invented people because they hang gays and persecute Christians and call for the ethnic cleansing of Judea and Samaria of its Jewish population.
Furthermore, you still haven’t refuted anything I said. So if you’re not gay, then you’re probably a member of some other disadvantaged minority or perhaps you’re a heterosexual who hasn’t seen a lot of action. The point is, you’re an anti-Semite, not because you truly believe in the cause of the invented people and believe the Jews are unjustified, but because you have an axe to grind with winners and sympathize with losers because you identify with losers. You hate Jews because we win and you believe that winners are evil and losers are virtuous.
You also never addressed the fact that when you’re unable to support your demagoguery, you start resorting to childish ad hominem attacks. You also never denied that you support the destruction of the State of Israel. You also never denied that you apply a double standard. You don’t condemn China for its ethnic cleansing of Tibet. You don’t condemn Turkey for it’s ethnic cleansing of Northern Cyprus.
Furthermore, the two-state solution already exists. The British created an Arab state in Eastern Palestine back in 1922. It’s called Jordan today.
I find Arab women to be very sexy. I would definitely go down on an Arab woman in a bus, if I wasn’t afraid that she and I would both be murdered by her father and brothers. Also she probably wouldn’t enjoy my pleasuring her, because her clitoris was probably removed when she was a child.
Another reason why sexual orientation is relevant, is because many gays perceive themselves as a persecuted minority. Typically, persecuted minorities have a deep-seated resentment towards people and institutions that are successful. Israel is a tiny country with few natural resources, and yet is a flourishing, industrialized, first-world military power. Israel has a space program, nuclear weapons, intercontinental ballistic missiles, an advanced software industry, more per capita start-ups than even the United States and a high standard of living. The Arabs have far more natural resources and bigger populations, but are a miserable failure as a society. Even when democracy and freedom are foisted on them, they mess it up. Just look at Iraq. The invented people you so love, could’ve turned Gaza into a thriving economic miracle. With its proximity to Europe, and it’s proximity to Israel’s technology and infrastructure, it could’ve been more successful than Hong Kong, Singapore or Taiwan. Instead, they chose to vote in Hamas, which took over and escalated its war of annihilation against Israel. Your invented people are more hell-bent on destroying Israel than on bettering their own lives.
If Israel ever did engage in ethnic cleansing, it would be perfectly justified. The invented people aren’t innocent victims who just want to be left alone. Survey after survey show that the majority wish to see the State of Israel destroyed. You are aware of this, yet you still sympathize with them. Which means you support the destruction of the State of Israel.
Your demand for a two-state solution is an exercise in hypocrisy. Do you call for a two-state solution to the Western Sahara problem, the Tibetan problem, the Ambon problem, the Kurdish problem? All of these areas are under foreign occupation, not to mention other areas. Yet I don’t hear you demanding self-determination for them. The only reason why you demand a two-state solution for the invented people is because they were defeated by Jews and you can’t tolerate Jews being the winners.
For those that don’t believe that Jim Harrison is an anti-Semite please read the following from his blog:
If all that it takes is to believe that your nation is God’s favorite, chosen peoples have always infested the Earth, though their hurrah-for-our-side ideologies have never had much more content or validity than a high-school football cheer. The historical novelty of the Jews is rather different. Like the Greeks, the Hebrews were late comers to a world that already had a long history behind it. They certainly tried to take their place among the ranks of the goyim, an impulse that has never gone away, but promoting legendary or mythical figures such as David or Solomon as local pharaohs didn’t quite come off despite the talk of chariots and mighty men. It was the Book and the tradition of reading it that set the Jews apart and allowed them to persist with a sense of their own identity in the aftermath of the destruction of their insignificant territorial states. Indeed, many of the exiles in Babylon and Egypt chose not to return to Palestine. There was something half-hearted about the rebuilding of the temple, a partially sensed irrelevance that perhaps accounts for the literary dullness of the Books of Nehemiah and Ezra. In any case the gradual establishment of a definitive canon and translation of the Torah into Greek by Jews in Alexandria were far more momentous than priestly squabbles in Jerusalem. To be sure, as I gather from people who actually know about these things, we have next to no reliable information about what actually took place in these crucial centuries. Even so, the salient event was presumably not the resettlement of the West Bank by Judeans of impeccable lineage but something spiritual or at least intellectual.
Being chosen means being set apart, but the terms of this separation are not, or were not, geographical and political so much as ritual and ethical. You some times read that during the Diaspora the Jews reverted to the situation before the monarchy during which the people had rallied around a portable symbol of identity except that in the later age the Torah took the place of the Tabernacle. In this respect, Zionism is a reversion of a reversion, a redefinition of Israel as a territorial unit. Granted the horrors of the last century, it’s easy to understand and sympathize with this desire for a secure homeland, an impulse similar to the frequently expressed wish of Russians and other East Europeans to live in a normal country in the aftermath of the Soviet era. In Israel’s case, unfortunately, the hoped for normalcy is impossible because the new state is not just a place where Jews live among others, but a Jewish state where only Jews have full citizenship. Only the presumption of some sort of special privilege can justify the mass expulsion of the Palestinians back in 1947, the gradual annexation of the West Bank, and the restrictions on intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews; but what’s special about the Jews is precisely that they aren’t just another nation. That’s why the Israeli flag shouldn’t feature the Star of David. The more appropriate emblem would be a square circle on a field of blue.
Thanks for the plug, but why you think my ideas are antisemitic beats me, unless antisemitic simply means doesn’t agree with me. That’s probably it.
For the last time, you are anti-Semitic because you single Israel and the Jews out for criticism. Your above post demonstrates that you’re obsessed with us and nobody else.
My whole point was precisely that Israel is getting to be all too much like lots of other states, which, for the record, I do in fact criticize—I’m not a fan of blood and soil nationalism of any kind. Of course Israeli policy is especially important to Americans since we subsidize Israeli to the tune of billions and turn a blind eye to some of its behavior. I’m also particularly interested in things Jewish precisely because Jewish thought and history has played a disproportionate role in the history of civilization and because, contrary to another one of your habitual slanders, I have a lot of knowledge of and respect for the tradition.
My thinking about these matters has been largely influenced by Zeev Sternhell, an Israeli political thinker who has written several books about right-wing political thinking of the late 19th and early 20th Century. His works made me see Zionism in the context of the host of other nationalist movements of their time such as the Young Turks and Italia Irredenta. Although contemporary Israelis tend to quote scripture as if the Torah were a binding title document, most of the early Zionists I’m aware of and surely many of the founders of Israel were secular people, indeed a lot of them were atheistic German socialists. Modern Israel, like modern Hebrew, is pretty much a modern concoction. That doesn’t mean it’s illegitimate or that I or very many other people in the U.S. want to see the Israelis driven into the sea.
Nations are all dubious propositions, and if we were going to destroy them just because they were founded by acts of violence and usurpation, there would be no end to it. I’m writing from California, part of the large part of the United States that was seized by military force. I’m not proposing to give Arizona back just because the Mexican war was one of unprovoked aggression. Similarly, what I’d like to see in the Middle East is not the destruction of Israel but some sort of accommodation that would work for both sides. I don’t think Israelis have any special rights over and beyond the rights that all human beings should have, however; and I’m afraid I can’t endorse your previous suggestion that there’s nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing as long as its just Arabs who get their houses stolen.
So you are critical of Arab Nationalism? Lots of blood there. Zionism is soil nationalism, but the Arabs forced us to add the blood element, by starting and continuing a war of annihilation against us.
The notion that we subsidize Israel is bigoted nonsense. The aid that the U.S. provides to Israel accounts for about 2-3% of Israel’s GDP. If the aid were abruptly stopped tomorrow, Israel wouldn’t notice. Furthermore, Israel is required to spend much of that aid money in the United States. The amount of intelligence and technology that the United States receives from Israel in return, has been estimated to be worth about $80 billion. I am opposed to Israel accepting aid from the United States, but not because I think Israel isn’t deserving of it. I’m opposed because Israel doesn’t need it. Israel is a first-world, technologically advanced, industrialized country. If Israel trimmed its bloated socialist bureaucracy, privatized more of its economy, reduced the red tape needed to start and run businesses and work in many occupations (you need a license to teach martial arts in Israel), ended its American style drug policy, legalized gambling and implemented a host of other pro-free-market and pro-individual liberty reforms, it would not need the aid to an even greater extent.
Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan all receive aid from the United States. Do you condemn Turkey for its policies in Kurdistan and Northern Cyprus? Do you condemn Egypt and Pakistan for their persecution of Christians? Or do you turn a blind eye to their “behavior”? The Palestinian Authority wouldn’t exist without U.S. aid. Do you condemn their “behavior” or do you turn a blind eye to it as well? Please provide me with some tangible, truthful examples of Israel’s bad behavior that we turn a blind eye to. Does Israel strap bombs on Jewish teenagers and send them to blow up buses and cafes in Gaza? Does Israel fire rockets at Gaza from schoolyards, synagogues, hospitals and day-care centers? Does Israel fire rockets at Gaza from densely populated civilian neighborhoods? Does Israel store rockets and launchers in the residential homes of Jewish civilians? Does Israel run to the UN (which stands for “Useless Nothing”) and accuse the Inventedstinians of war crimes because the Inventedstinians conducted retaliatory attacks against those same schools, synagogues, hospitals etc. and accuse the Inventedstinians of deliberately targeting civilian areas? Do Israeli soldiers wear civilian clothes and hide out among civilian Jewish populations? Do the Inventedstinians call and text Israeli civilians and drop leaflets on their neighborhoods before attacking Israel civilian areas? Do mainstream Israeli Rabbis, the Israel media and Israeli schools call for the conquest of neighboring territories and the annihilation of their populations? Do Israeli schools teach their children that Arabs are descended from apes and pigs? Do Israeli schools teach their children that Arabs use children’s blood to bake matzah? Do the Israeli media propagate the notion that Arabs control the media, banks, world financial markets, etc? Do the Israeli media and government encourage parents to send their children out into the streets when there’s live combat in the streets, just so their children can be martyred? Do Israelis cut off their daughter’s clitorises with pieces of broken glass? Do Israeli Jews murder their daughters when they date non-Jews? And when Israeli Jews do murder their daughters, does the Israeli criminal justice system give those murderers a mild sentence of a year or two? Do Israeli youths harass and assault elderly Christians when they walk to church on Sunday? Does the Israeli police refuse to investigate when those Christians file complaints?
You respect Jews and Judaism on your own terms, not ours. When Jews are helpless, defenseless victims being herded into gas chambers, you tolerate them, because they’re weaker than you and are defenseless. You’re more than willing to tolerate an elderly Jew with a cane walking to the synagogue on the Sabbath, because he is weaker than you and defenseless. But when Jews win wars that others started, create a thriving economic powerhouse out of a forgotten, abandoned, desert and swampy backwater, have nuclear weapons, ICBMs and the means to defend themselves and retaliate against aggression, ruthlessly if necessary, you’re not willing to tolerate that. The land of Israel is an integral part of the Jewish tradition you claim to respect. Do you respect the historic connection of the Jewish People to the land of Israel? Based on your blog post, you don’t. I also am willing to bet that you think circumcision is barbaric. How would you have voted on the anti-Circumcision initiative had it appeared on the San Francisco ballot a couple of years ago?
You claim to have a lot of knowledge and respect of the tradition. Do you know what the term “chosen people” means in a Jewish context? I know you don’t, based on your blog posting. You believe that when we claim to be the “chosen people”, that means we think we’re superior to others and have privileges that others don’t.
I will respond to the rest of your post later.
I’ve had it with you, junior. You have a story in your head about everybody who dares to criticize Israel, and you won’t give it up. You libel people freely and without compunction.
You also blatantly state that the state of Israel is illegitimate. Another reason why you’re an anti-Semite is because you are extremely ignorant about Jewish History, Arab History and the Middle East, yet you have very vehement opinions about a subject you know next to nothing about. What could drive those opinions other than a hatred of Jews?
Do you condemn Turkey for its expulsion of Greek Cypriots from Northern Cyprus; India for its expulsion of Muslims; Pakistan for its expulsion of Hindus; Poland and Czechoslovakia for their expulsions of ethnic Germans; China for its expulsion of Tibetans? Do you condemn Egypt and Syria for calling themselves the “Arab Republic of Egypt” and the “Syrian Arab Republic”? Do you condemn Libya for its mass expulsion of Jews? To this day, Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Libya, even to visit their own synagogues and cemeteries.
“the new state is not just a place where Jews live among others, but a Jewish state where only Jews have full citizenship”. This is an outright lie and you know it’s a lie. Israeli Arabs are full and equal citizens of Israel. In fact, they have more freedom than Jews, because they aren’t required to serve in the IDF.
Hey Jim Harrison, In order for me to commit libel I have to have said something that’s not true. What did I say about you that’s not true? And if I’ve said anything that’s not true, why don’t you provide an itemized rebuttal? You just resort to childish insults like “a story in your head”. And if I have a “story in [my] head” please elaborate for me, what you believe that story is. In my most recent post, I criticized Israel’s domestic and economic policy. Do I have a “story in [my] head” about myself? In your second-to-last post you tried to make the case that you don’t single Israel out, but in my most recent post, I showed how you still do single Israel out. I have no problem with people singling out Israel for criticism, because it receives aid from the U.S., as long as they criticize all other countries and entities, that also receive aid from the United States, that do the same or worse.
When it comes to libel, you take the cake. You have accused Israel of ethnic cleansing and denying its Arab citizens full and equal rights as well as other libelous accusations. Perhaps the Israeli consulate in San Francisco, should file a defamation lawsuit against you.
As always, you evaded my questions and my points. Typical demagogue.
Although I vehemently disagree with some of Sternhell’s views, I do respect his opinions. I can’t accuse of him of unfairly singling out Israel, because he’s a Jew and an Israeli, and therefore has skin in the game. If you were an Arab or an Inventedstinian, I would also not accuse you of singling out Israel, because you also have skin in the game. I would however, take you to task, for starting the war, and openly calling for Israel’s destruction and the annihilation of its Jewish population. You aren’t a Jew and I surmise you’re not an Arab either. So your vicious opinions about Israel and no other entity that also receives aid from the U.S., that does worse, can only be motivated by a deep-seated resentment you have towards Jews. Your misunderstanding of what is meant by “the chosen people”, is further proof that you resent us. I also find it interesting that you would attempt to assimilate Zionists with the Young Turks, considering the role the Young Turks played in the Armenian Genocide. So now you’re drawing similarities between Zionists and participants in genocide?
Could you please provide examples of “contemporary Israelis (who) tend to quote scripture as if the Torah were a binding title document”? I know of many Israelis and Zionists who quote historical facts (and not the bible) as if they were binding title documents, myself included.
Most early Zionists were secular, however they believed and still believe that the land of Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people. Not for biblical reasons, but for historical ones. By the way, do you criticize Moslems for believing that Inventedstine is Waqf land, and must be liberated from the infidels?
Modern Hebrew and Modern Israel are concoctions? You make it sound as if they were cooked up in a meth lab. Do you deny the link between Modern Hebrew and Modern Israel and Ancient Hebrew and Ancient Israel? I appreciate the fact that you don’t necessarily think that Israel is illegitimate. However, you haven’t clearly and unequivocally stated that it IS legitimate. But assuming, that you believe that it is legitimate, what is the basis for Israel’s legitimacy? The fact that it already exists? The fact that the Jews need a place to run to, the next time someone wants to annihilate us? If these are the only bases for Israel’s legitimacy, then Israel’s legitimacy isn’t very tenable. The basis for Israel’s legitimacy is the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land of Israel, in the same way that the basis of Italy’s legitimacy is the historic connection of the Italic peoples to the Italian peninsula. I would like to state for the record, that I recognize the historic connection of some (but not all) local Arabs to the land of Israel as well. I would be more than happy to allow them to live in their homes, cultivate their fields and raise their families, if the majority of them didn’t want to destroy the State of Israel and annihilate its Jewish population. But that is not currently the case.
To be continued.
When is the US going to hold Israel to task? They have blackmailed the world for far too long. I am constantly amazed that the is country gets a pass for screaming “victim” yet no other group, race or country is allowed to.
It’s no surprise that a member of an invented people or one who sympathizes with an invented people, would invent such conspiracies.
“Similarly, what I’d like to see in the Middle East is not the destruction of Israel but some sort of accommodation that would work for both sides.”
You are maliciously naive. Accommodation? The Jews have offered the Inventedstinians an independent state 3 times in the past 13 years, and they rejected the offer each time without making a counter-offer. What accommodations are the Inventedstinians willing to give to Israel? What exactly does Israel have to gain by accommodating them? A worthless piece of paper promising that they won’t fire rockets at Israel and will not call for Israel’s destruction?
“I don’t think Israelis have any special rights over and beyond the rights that all human beings should have”
You’re absolutely right. Just like all other human beings, they have the right to defend themselves against people and entities that desire their annihilation. You’re statement further convinces me that you’re an anti-Semite.
“however; and I’m afraid I can’t endorse your previous suggestion that there’s nothing wrong with ethnic cleansing as long as its just Arabs who get their houses stolen.”
I never said there’s nothing wrong. I said that if Israel did so, it would be justified. Anything that Israel does to prevent the Arabs from annihilating it is justified. If Israel had to commit genocide of the Arabs to prevent them from doing so, and was able to prove that it had no other options, then it would be justified in doing so. I never said that Israel would be justified in committing ethnic cleansing because the Inventedstinians are Arabs. I said that Israel would be justified in doing so, because the Inventedstinians want to annihilate Israel.
“I’ve had it with you, junior. You have a story in your head about everybody who dares to criticize Israel, and you won’t give it up. You libel people freely and without compunction.”
You don’t criticize Israel. You vilify and demonize it. You can dare to criticize, vilify and demonize Israel ’til the cows come home. You just need to admit (to yourself, at least) that you do so because you hate Jews. Having a bunch of friends Singling out Israel only because it receives aid from the U.S. is a crock. Morocco and Indonesia receive aid from the United States, yet I don’t see you foaming at the mouth about their refusal to “accommodate” the Western Saharans and the South Moluccans, respectively.
You’re an anti-Semite. Deal with it.
Correction to above.
“I’ve had it with you, junior. You have a story in your head about everybody who dares to criticize Israel, and you won’t give it up. You libel people freely and without compunction.”
You don’t criticize Israel. You vilify and demonize it. You can dare to criticize, vilify and demonize Israel ’til the cows come home. You just need to admit (to yourself, at least) that you do so, because you hate Jews. Having a bunch of friends who are assimilated, self-hating Jews, doesn’t absolve you of being an anti-Semite.
Singling out Israel only because it receives aid from the U.S. is a crock. Morocco and Indonesia receive aid from the United States, yet I don’t see you foaming at the mouth about their refusal to “accommodate” the Western Saharans and the South Moluccans, respectively.
You’re an anti-Semite. Deal with it.