U.S. Catholic Bishops’ Final Plea on ObamaCare: Too Little, Too Late?
Within days, some eight individual bishops did make forceful public statements denouncing Pelosi’s claims and stating once again, for the record, the Church’s absolute stance on the right to life, once conceived, as the primordial human right upon which all others rest.
It was too little, too late, of course. Since Pelosi’s statements were not immediately followed with her public excommunication, her lies were allowed to stand in the minds of voters. And the most staunchly pro-abortion candidate in American history took a majority of Catholic votes.
Now, the Catholic vote is no small thing. In fact, Catholics make up about 27% of the electorate. If the bishops had acted fully in accord with their own Church doctrines and immediately excommunicated Nancy Pelosi, it is indeed arguable that the 2008 election would have produced entirely different outcomes.
In 2009, another event begged the bishops’ bold intervention, but was all but ignored. Last May, Notre Dame, the flagship Catholic university in the United States, not only invited Barack Obama to speak at commencement, but then chose to award this openly avowed anti-life president with an honorary degree.
Here was the opportunity to stop Catholic support for President Obama dropped squarely in the robed laps of the U.S. bishops. They could have immediately told Notre Dame’s president, Father Jenkins, that if he did not withdraw the invitation, then they would forthrightly strip Notre Dame of its claim to represent the Catholic Church and would also instruct the faithful to stop donating to the institution and sending their children to college there. No such public remonstration was made by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, however.
Some 62 American bishops did speak out against the Notre Dame scandal, but they were speaking as individuals, which has far, far less clout than when the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) acts as a unified body. That the USCCB failed to do so simply emboldened the counterfeit Catholic forces in the Democratic Party.
As the U.S. bishops now attempt to sway the Democratic Party, which they largely have enabled and emboldened into its present-day power perch, it is an embarrassment to genuine Christians across the entire nation. If they had only been doing the jobs with which Christ ordained them, then it is quite plausible that we would not be where we are today — facing a choice between outright atheistic medicine and the overwhelming Judeo/Christian respect for human life that was the absolute norm in this country until 1973.
Woe be unto these bishops if their final-hour appeal does not stop this bill.
Since responsibility is personal, woe unto the voters who allowed a nihilist marxist administration to get to power.
I don’t necessaarily agree with your premise that the Bishops haven’t spoken out loudly against Abortion, but i whole heartedly agree that they are withing their group leftist tendencies. Witness the millions fromn the CHD that somehow found their way into the hands of ACORN and help to fund the election of the most pro-abortion even infanticide president in history and they then compounded their accident with two Notre Dame fiascos -the first was in covering Christ because Obama didn’t like it.
Far more important is their stated demand for “comprehensive healthcare reform (the Obama buzzwords exactly) and the total neglect of the long establish principle of Subsidiarity where by things must be done at the lowest level possible (not in Washington) They failed to properly address the death panels and had nothing to say about the theft of 500 billion dollars from medicare (jeopardizing old folks healthcare) in order to fund (illegals?) Their position that healthcare is a right for all regardless where they LIVE or got there is untenable and contradicts postitions about property rights -violates the simplest notion that all people in the world somehow have a right to American healthcare would make simple folk scratch their heads at the absurdity of guaranteed bankruptcy except one has to remember the bishops are well educated and have been commanded to be as wise as serpents. Demanding that Caesar provide charity (Obamacare)even as this Caesar (obama) seeks to take the tax break for charity away that all will be forced to become dependent upon the government isn’t being as wise as serpents. Immigration, according to the Catechism is the business of the laity. One has to remember that among the clergy were radicals who also sought peace and justice with liberation theology and guns for the poor in latin America until John Paul II put a halt to it. One is also reminded that the Smoke of Satin entering the taberbnacle is a quote from Pope Paul. Something is amiss here.
Ah, if the bishops (and the Pope) would only do more to protect already born children – especially from the priests!
And as for Pelosi’s “lies” about changing church doctrine towards abortion, this from Wikipedia:
“Pope Sixtus V (1585–1590) is noted as the first Pope to declare that abortion is homicide regardless of the stage of pregnancy.” And the one-and-a-half millennia before that…?
You would think a Church that has had to deal with socialism of the communist and nationalist versions would be a little more aware of the dangers of getting in bed with the American version.
The cover up was at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.
I am an ex-Catholic and one may wish to take my following comments with a huge grain of salt. Nonetheless, Michael Novak and the late William F. Buckley represent the more traditional wing of this long established Christian institution. They also represent the marginalized wing of the Church! The left-wingers hold the real power. As a practical matter, the Catholic Church advocates socialism and is truly an enemy of Western Civilization. It must be added that much of the collapse in Europe to the Islamic crazies is because of the Church’s unofficial commitment to multiculturalism. The late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin’s “seamless garment” thesis is greatly responsible for the American Church’s capitulation to the pro-abortionists. Turning the United States into a utopian socialist entity is its first priority. Nothing, including the abortion issue, is allowed to interfere.
Well its over…Stupac caved..
Now we see what America is made of…will we go whimpering into the night over the next few yrs?
Unfortunately, this article is spot on. the US conference of Bishops have too long been lax and let the clergy and the faithful do what they please. the USCCB must publicly excommunicate any and all pro-abortion politicians and defrock any priests that continue to give these politicians the Holy Eucharist.
Above all this, WHERE IS ROME? Where is the direction from the Holy Father right now?
The Church has encyclicals and multiple statements on this issue, but we desperately need a statement NOW – if you’re pro-abortion/pro-choice, then don’t bother showing up to Mass.
Bart Stupak is left-wing Catholic—and “social justice” issues are his foremost priority. Once again, as a practical matter—the Catholic Church has betrayed the pro-life movement. Its socialist agenda is deemed of vastly greater importance. One does not have to indulge in anti-Catholic bigotry to realize that American Catholicism is hostile towards the core values of civilization. The leadership of the present Church may be ignoring “true” Catholicism. That is a debate we can have at another time. The reality, however, is that these individuals run the show. Also, conservative Catholics still provide them with financial assistance and other help.
Well, if church leaders really cared about life, they would be pro life. Thousands will suffer and die in the time it takes me to type this because people and big insurance companies spend billions to stop America having decent health care. They have been successful now for decades,and our citizens…real people…business people, veterens, retirees and working people have suffered. When/if this bill passes today there will be thousands of insurance company executives that will lose millions of dollars in bonus/s this year. So be it…maybe they will see what its like to lose something…..for once….
Support Health Care for America… you will not regret it.
“the US conference of Bishops have too long been lax and let the clergy and the faithful do what they please.”
The majority of American Catholic bishops most assuredly agree with the welfare state policies of Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, and the late Ted Kennedy. And likely so does the pope! Much of the Catholic Church essentially believes that Jesus was a socialist. Wealth redistribution is what the Lord demanded of His flock. The polling data is quite clear about the thinking of American Catholics. This is not a mystery. American Catholicism is first, last, and foremost, devoted to socialism. Those Catholic who disagree are merely tolerated.
10. If thousands died in the time it took you to write that, then the population of America would all be dead within a year. You are the enemy, and you are a madman.
David Thomson: You are absolutely correct. The church has really given in to the social justice, pro-choice and gay friendly agendas. I think partly due to the priest scandals and perhaps figuring they could gain some modicum of respect from the media if they went LEFT. Stupid logic for sure but that’s all I can come up with.
And don’t forget the church’s allowing gays in the priesthood so they could minimize the MSM constant attacks. Another capitulation.
As for the bishops, they are always tucking their tales and running for cover. They fully support the amnesty agenda thinking they can increase their filled seats…never mind what it means to America.
I have not left the church and I will defend her from BC and his loonies, but I have great issues with her all the same.
This is the most eloquent and forceful statement to these quisling bishops I have read. We only need a Dante today to put thedr bishops where they belong. Kyle-Anne carries on the proud tradition!
Kyle Anne, you are right on the mark.
The bishops lost this battle 35 years ago and more, when they began indulging guys like Raymond Hunthausen as bishops. He was part of the Butte/Anaconda mafia of priests in Montana who still run it and have had a record of nearly zero accountability for, e.g., the sexual molesters in the clergy. Pro-abortion tolerance goes along with it.
When I was extraordinary minister of the Eucharist to homebound elderly in my parish, 25 years ago, one elderly couple’s young relative dropped in just as we began, so I included her in communion. Her name is Nancy Keenan, and she is now head of NARAL. She got her start in Montana, her home state and the disaster zone that Hunthausen left behind.
That is just an example. Some dioceses are better off.
What bugs me the most is that these bishops seem oblivious to this catastrophe. Institutional cluelessness.
Kyle-Anne Shiver, Michael Novak, and other conservative Catholics may have the best intentions—-but they have funded the leftist destruction of America. These are the well meaning Catholics who find every excuse to fund the institutional Church’s attacks on the values of Western Civilization. These are folks who every Sunday gives a check to their local church. Needless to add, the left-wingers get a certain percentage of the proceeds. At the end of the day, Shiver has probably given inadvertently more money to the pro-abortionists than to pro-lifers!
“I have not left the church and I will defend her from BC and his loonies, but I have great issues with her all the same.”
Do you fund the modern day Catholic church? If so, you are providing money to the enemies of Western Civilization.
First, the Bishops are far more conservative than mainstream Catholic’s who are largely pro-choice, use contraception, and believe and work for social justice (which is why we support HCR). They talk but nobody listens anymore. Besides, what does a group of old desk-bound celibate males know about family life anyway and the issues that we face and the choices we have to make? Not much, actually.
On another note, the passage and success of HCR is the GOP’s “Waterloo.”
IF you dig deep enough and do all of your research, you’ll find that the socialist/progressives ‘infiltrated’ the church more than a hundred years ago. They’ve been teaching in the seminaries since at least the 1870′s. World-wide, your preachers and priests have been disseminating the doctrines and teachings of socialism ever since.
You don’t have to believe me. Do your own research…
Additionally, contrary to the political doctrine of the separation of church and state, the government controls much of what you hear from the pulpits of your churches and cathedrals. This control is in the form of the 501(c)3 and other non-profit laws and regulations. There are some things from your holy scriptures that your churches simply aren’t allowed to teach. (When a church is legally required to have a board of directors, you’ve left your scriptures by the wayside.)
Well, I am a Catholic regardless of the leadership, just as I am an American regardless of the leadership. I am very frustrated on both counts, as are most of my Catholic friends. I agree with your conclusion about the bishops.
Bend over, here comes healthcare! (Bring your own K-Y!)
For any society/species to kill its born or unborn reflects upon its lack of sensitivity to what should be the goals of the society/species – namely “SURVIVAL”.
It does not require a religion to take a position on this evident theorem.
Just as many politicians are not fit to think or lead the same can be said for church hierarchy.
This is because they (both) are neither in touch with their respective flocks or their personal selves.
“To thine own self be true and thus it follows ……………………..”
This is why we’re in this predicament. For over 40 years we’ve had this laissez-faire attitude. We weren’t vigilant. The left was. They didn’t stop trying to undermine this country for one minute. We didn’t take them very seriously. Now it’s as serious as death.
As for the Church, it’s their job to take a stand and spread the word. The only Catholic I can think of in the public arena is William Donohue. Shame on the pope and all his men for letting this go so far.
Ripped from today’s headlines, the Sunday Los Angeles Times, in fact:
“For [Michigan Rep. Dale] Kildee, who spent six years in seminary as a young man, support for the bill was contingent on its banning federal funding for abortion. He studied the text. He absorbed criticism for waffling. He consulted like-minded colleagues. But he was not sure what to do until he took the question to his priest, who, despite other church leaders’ opposition, told him the bill was true to his antiabortion commitment.”
His PRIEST told him there was nothing wrong with the bill. Who is this guy’s priest, and exactly when did he have time to read the bill?
Don’t get me started on the Catholic church and its hypocrisy throughout the ages.
Its limp-wristed protest at so late an hour — coupled with the exposure of winking at its pedophile priests — makes me want to vomit.
Jesus faded out of the Catholic church’s scene long ago. And rightly so. Would that He could turn over a few ~money-changers’~ tables nowadays.
The executive order is worse than the Slaughter rule! Why not let the President issue an executive order for universal health care and bypass the whole Congress-Senate thing. Please contact your representatives. This is an extremely dangerous precedent!
The bishops big error was in letting democRATs (Catholic in name only) support abortion year after year with no consequences. This scandalized those who follow the Church’s teaching by implying that it’s ‘optional’ whether one supports abortion or not. To this day, I’ve seen not one of these
child murderers pay one thing. Has any been excommunicated? If not, the Church must not really care about abortion! Put your penalties where your mouth is. . . no penalty, no sin. Sadly very few bishops today (exceptions are Denver and Philadelphia) have the courage to stand up for their beliefs. I’ll never vote for the democRAT but then I never have. Beyond every abortion issue, I find them dishonest meglomaniacs.
There’s a word for a pro-abortion Catholic: apostate.
28. kiwikit:
The bishops big error was in letting democRATs (Catholic in name only) support abortion year after year with no consequences.
————————–
Does no one, besides myself, not appreciate how stunning the hypocrisy of professing oneself a Catholic, and supporting abortion?
It is literally suffocating, heart-stopping, akin to being tasered.
I found out about this video via Front Page Magazine’s blog. It is a real shocker. Bart Stupak was always conning the pro-life voters. See for yourself:
http://tinyurl.com/ybj8xy3
For any society/species to kill its born or unborn reflects upon its lack of sensitivity to what should be the goals of the society/species – namely “SURVIVAL”.
It does not require a religion to take a position on this evident theorem.
Just as many politicians are not fit to think or lead the same can be said for church hierarchy.
This is because they (both) are neither in touch with their respective flocks or their personal selves.
“To thine own self be true and thus it follows as the day follows the night we shall be true to all others”
If we need to abort humans because they’re a costly burden on the system, then why does the government keep coming to me for money? I’m human, but it seems I’m a resource for them, not a burden.
Is this the same church body that let Hitler have his way with them? While the Lutheran Dietrich Bonhoeffer, during a visit to New York, was invited to stay and teach — yet would not secure his own safety while his fellow Christians, those among his church, were at risk. He could not abandon them when they needed him most. He returned to Germany to face an uncertain future, leading eventually to his murder by the Nazis — but a few short weeks before the fall of Berlin.
Take that Stupak — you wolf in sheep’s clothing, you.
To those on this thread criticizing the Catholic Church, you do have a point regarding the AMERICAN Catholic Church. But outside the US and Europe, the Church is far more conservative. Yes, there will always be Left-leaning Jesuits or those who espouse “Liberation Theology.” But there will also be members of the Legionnaires of Christ, or Opus Dei, or those returning members of the Society of Pius X, all of which hold conservative viewpoints. The Pope and much of the third world Church (where it is actually GROWING) still lean conservative. Remember that it was our Polish Pope who helped destroy Communism’s grip on Eastern Europe.
It’s true that the Bishops in the US have been tepid in their response to so-called “Catholics” who promote pro-abortion stances. I can only assume that many of them place a higher premium on “social justice” issues than the life of the unborn (a truly detestable stance), or are afraid to excommunicate politicians for fear of being seen as violating Church/State separation. I disagree with them, as abortion is not a political issue, or one to be “balanced” with other issues. It’s an issue of protecting the dignity of life. Nothing could be more fundamental than that.
Even so, to those who in blanket fashion criticize the Catholic Church in America, I’d like to ask: which of the major Protestant churches has spoken out as vehemently against abortion as the Catholic Church has? Which has been derided more for being “backwards” when it holds to the notion that homosexuality is a sin? The Episcopalians -with their openly practicing gay bishop? There are some things I disagree with in terms of American Catholics’ “modernity,” but in general, I feel the Church is true to its roots. In the hubris of recent scandals, let’s not forget all the good the Church accomplishes, through organizations like Catholic Relief Services, Caritas, or individuals like Mother Theresa, or Father Damian of Molokai. If Jesus truly “faded out of the Catholic church’s scene long ago,” where did He go? The shifting sands of American Protestantism?
This lack of a stand on abortion, plus the multiple clergy sex scandals, the knowing ordination of homosexuals, child abusers, etc., are exactly the reasons I’m an ex-catholic. The hypocrisy within the church is beyond belief and tolerance. The Catholic Church doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on.
I hope that everyone will take the time to read Eamonn Keane’s A Generation Betrayed and Redemptionis Sacramentum for the Congregation of Divine Worship and speak out when the doctrine is violated
http://www.adoremus.org/RedemptionisSacramentum.html#anchor1157681
I have had enough; Our Church is being destroyed from within.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_how_catholic_charities.html
Get thee hence bastard sons and daughters of Jezebel! If Jesus be God, follow Him, and if Baal be God, follow him, but do not pretend to follow Jesus while bending the knee to Baal.
Mosts of the posts on this issue are born from ignorance or just plain bigotry.I was a seminarian for five years, finished all my theological studies necessary to become a priest ( deacon first).I have met many bishops and most are good Christian men.They have been thrust into the political arena which I can tell you they hate.
As for western civilization and Catholicisms destructive force, well that is an insane comment, Who gave us hospitals,universities and western philosophy?
The bishops are not the problem ,it’s the culture stupid!
Why is this a “Catholic” issue? Why do politicians of other Christian denominations get a free pass? Aren’t all Christians (and Jews) called to defend the sanctity of life?
I love how some posters seem to almost relish condemning the entire Church for the faults of a few sinful priests. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
For those truly interested in multi-denominational action against abortion, please visit the Priests for Life website: http://www.priestsforlife.org/
Those who wish to defend traditional Judeo-Christian values should consider signing the Manhattan Declaration: http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/ Prominent members of the Catholic faith (including bishops/archbishops) as well as prominent members of other Christian denominations, and Jews were among its charting members.
The fact is that the American bishops have never really cared about abortion. The heavy induction of gay priests have IMO -done much to detach the clergy from any consideration of family issues beyond the formal. Having no interest in marriage they caved to divorce. Having no interest in children (I will avoid a vulgar comment here) they caved on abortion. Their interest is in their political friendships, and in their moral excuses, and that is what they have focused on.
“As for western civilization and Catholicisms destructive force, well that is an insane comment”
The empirical evidence easily contradicts your assertion. Logically, you don’t have a leg to stand on. On a practical level, the perhaps well meaning but feckless Catholic Church is on the side of the destroyers of Western Civilization. The left-wingers of today virtually control the Church of Rome. More traditional Catholics have been thoroughly marginalized. Pope Benedict XVI may be a nice man—but he is ineffectual and weak. He does next to nothing to effectively curtail the behavior of blatant dissenters like Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry. As matter of fact, the pope will merely go out of his way to invite her to share a cup of coffee with him the next time she visits Rome. Pope Benedict inadvertently helps Pelosi to carry out her nefarious activities. He unwittingly has greatly assisted her in pushing the abortionist crusade in the United States.
@36, JB: “This lack of a stand on abortion, plus the multiple clergy sex scandals… are exactly the reasons I’m an ex-catholic…. The Catholic Church doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on.”
Yeah, I’m sure I could find a few bitter ex-Protestants who’d ramble on about their specific denomination just as harshly. The fact is the Church is made up of humans, and as such, there are bound to be errors and sin. Or is your congregation perfect? But tell me, what have YOU done to protest abortions? Why is abortion always associated with Catholicism? Could it be that it is, among major Christian denominations, one of the MOST VOCAL opponents of abortion? Where are the Protestants in all this??
“Knowing ordination of gays” is a serious charge, any evidence? While the Church will always respect every human as a child of God, irrespective of their sexual orientation, and while I’m sure there must be some homosexuals who inadvertently entered the priesthood (do you have a perfect test to keep them out?), the OFFICIAL stand is that homosexuals are not allowed into seminaries: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican_says_prohibition_against_gays_in_seminaries_is_universal/
“no moral leg to stand on”? Are you kidding? You are so willing to condemn the entire Church, tens of thousands of missionaries, the nuns and priests throughout the world spreading the Gospel and doing good, all the Saints throughout the ages… because of a few men who fell into sin? What if I were to judge America the way you judge the entire Church?? What if I were to say, “America’s lack of stand on abortion, multiple political scandals, the knowing election of a pro-death President and Congress, are exactly the reasons I’m an ex-US citizen. The hypocrisy within the US is beyond belief and tolerance. The US doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on.” Huh? You like that??
JB, if you open your Bible -you know, that Book of Scripture that was written, copied, translated, handed down, preserved and canonized by the same Catholic Church you so despise- you may find some enlightening passages, such as: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank that is in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
# 10 Poor Citizen: writes
“Thousands will suffer and die in the time it takes me to type this because people and big insurance companies spend billions to stop America having decent health care.”
Have you ever read such an IDIOTIC sentence in your life ” THOUSANDS will DIE in the time it takes me to TYPE this message and Insurance Companies SPEND Billions to STOP people having Health Care”
Anyone still think left wing moonbats are NOT absolutely certifiably insane???
Heres’ a suggestion for you moronic MOONBAT Poor Citizen . STOP writing then people will stop dying right? LOL
Pedro. Oh dear. What can I say? So am I to understand that you believe the Catholic Church is so great because it gave us “hospitals, universities, and western philosophy”?
If so, then by your own words you prove the deep hollowness that has become the Catholic Church. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Our “righteous” deeds are as filthy rags to God. He cares not a whit about our institution building, especially not if it is done as a monument to man’s ego.
The Catholic Church — and a host of Protestant Churches as well — has gotten the formula wrong: they keep putting sanctification before justification. This is their mistake: do good deeds and God will forgive you. When the reality is: you are forgiven, go and live lives of thankfulness because you are forgiven.
When any church body adopts the culture around them, exchanging the gospel of Christ for the social gospel, aka social justice . . . well, what can you expect but that their members will become tools of anyone who wants to use them for their own ends. They become, “tossed to and fro, by any wind of doctrine.” Stupak was putty in Pelosi’s hand, she-devil that she is.
“You are so willing to condemn the entire Church”
It is a mistake—and unfair to condemn the entire Catholic Church. One should instead restrict their criticism to its inept leadership. The pope might be a good man, but he is mostly useless in the struggle against the enemies of civilization. It is accurate to assert that his namby-pamby style of leadership has only encouraged the antics of Nancy Pelosi and other publicly heretical Catholics. The evidence is abundantly clear on this point.
‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
We are not talking about moral virtue. The pope might even be a saint. He is still feckless and ineffective.
@ #43 Chileno:
I daresay I know as much about the history of the Catholic Church as you do. Offhand I’d say Nancy Pelosi, the Kerry’s and the Kennedy’s, et al., have all purchased their Papal Indulgences a long time ago. The church will never take these criminals to task for their misdeeds.
Although I have to agree with the first poster, I have been extremely disappointed in the (non) reaction of the Catholic Bishops. They could have made a difference and everyone involved knows this. It just seems to me that the Catholic Church is slow to react to situations in which they could be instrumental in helping, not hurting, human kind. The only thing I can see that they have been vocal about is immigration and sanctimoniously giving illegals safe haven in their churches. To me, that is not helpful at all.
The Catholics should have spoke out more like the Baptists, Jews, Methodists etc..
I have decided (last night late) after numerous heresies of the Catholic Church, to leave the Church. I’m still Christian, but after all this ‘social justice’ redistribution through the years, pro-abortion, homosexualism and hitting on teen boys, handling heretics by slapping hands, and basically not giving a damn about what’s in the Catechism, it’s over. There is very little in the Church for men. And, they threw me in jail for a weekend because I peacefully and prayerfully protested this President at Notre Dame because he believes in infanticide.
This legislation passed (Senate version) and Obama became POTUS because of the moral failure of the Catholic Church in America to embrace leftism and socialism.
I’m out. The final was when I began questioning the Church’s links to the Holy Spirit and that it appears that link may have been severed.
Is the Eucharist at most Catholic parishes still the Body of Christ? I think not. And, I don’t say that because his body tastes like bread.
@ David Thompson
I appreciate your restraint in not condemning “all” of the Church. I do dislike the fact that there are many “cafeteria” Catholics -who pick and choose what they want from doctrine, and ignore the rest. Yet you cannot take these individuals’ acts -some which contradict Church doctrine- and say the Church is wrong. It’s like saying the US is evil because Pelosi is in Congress. Just like the basis of US law is the Constitution, not the acts of Pelosi, the foundation of the Church is its Jesus-centered doctrine, not the acts of some individuals. The Church teachings are there. Whether individuals wish to practice them is their choice -for which they will be held accountable for at the final Judgment. They are free to sin. I just wish they’d stop calling themselves “Catholics.”
There is a place for the Church in the public arena, more forceful than the position it takes now. But I think you give the left-wing of the Church way too much power. You are focused on the American/European Church which you see, and completely ignore the third world Church and its growing influence. I’ll remind you that John Paul II personally put a lid on the blossoming “Liberation Theology” back in the 1980s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology Unfortunately, Benedict XVI is not the statesman that JP II was. He’s a theologian, not a politician. And I understand that the Church, given its history, is shy of entering politics any more as well. I think we can all see how power corrupts.
Having said this, I doubt Pelosi needs any “encouragement” from anyone, as she’s driven by her own ideology/ambitions. Nor has the Church remained silent about her or Obama’s antics. Even the above article states that “only” 62 bishops spoke out about Obama speaking at Notre Dame. Yes, it would have been better if the USCCB had spoken in unison. But given there are 194 dioceses in America, nearly a third of all bishops complained. That’s hardly peanuts.
And given the Church’s vocal position on abortion -perhaps the ONLY major Christian group in America to take up the cause, I doubt its positions can be reasonably seen as a “betrayal” of the Pro-Life movement
You state that “….bishops most assuredly agree with the welfare state policies of Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, and the late Ted Kennedy. And likely so does the pope!”
I suggest you read what the Pope has said on the issue before making such a sweeping generalization. The Church has always supported charity (as Jesus taught: “Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”) -yet it understands that State bureaucracy is not the solution. John Paul II had a piece on the inappropriateness of the “Social Assistance State” within the encyclical “Centesimus Annus”: “By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending” [CAn.48] This position has been supported by Benedict XVI. There is a succinct summary here: http://www.ccky.org/Resources/Ketteler/2006%20Columns/08%2006%20Charity%20and%20the%20Welfare%20State.pdf
Dearest JB,
I dearsay, I don’t think you know the history, or the doctrine, of the Catholic Church as I do, or else you wouldn’t have left. And I suggest you keep your offhand opinions to yourself, as you do not know the mind of the Pope. And in your arrogant response, following your arrogant critique of the Church (yes, the same Church that copied, preserved, and canonized the Bible you thump on so hard), you still fail to note what YOU have done in the name of the Pro Life movement, or provided evidence to support your inflammatory accusations.
As I have stated before, the Church is composed of humans, who sin. The acts of a few do not constitute the body of the Church, and they certainly do not constitute the doctrine of the Church. There are over 7 million Americans -over 3% of the population- currently on parole or in jail. Even if the number rose to 10 or 20% – does that mean the US is a lawless nation? Hardly. US law is based on the Constitution, just as the Church is based on its doctrines, not the acts of a few sinners.
@ 50 Pete ” Baptists, Jews, Methodists…”
Where are the Pro Life Jews? I’m sure there are some, but given the fact that Obama took 77% of the Jewish vote in 2008, I doubt many of them are Pro Life. So it’s hardly right to say Catholics should be more forceful “like” the Jews have been.
I don’t have any data on Baptists or Methodists, but at least in my part of the country, it’s the Catholics that dominate the Pro Life movement. Where are these other organizations? Why don’t Baptist or Methodist (or any other Christian denomination) politicians get harped on for being Pro Choice?
“Nor has the Church remained silent about her or Obama’s antics.”
The Church has ineffectively rebuked Nancy Pelosi. She remains a member in good standing. Pelosi has not been excommunicated—and that confuses those within and outside of Church of Rome. Most people perceived that at the very most, she has gotten a light tap on her wrist.
I have long defended Pope Pius XII. He was not Hitler’s pope! Still, he was a naive and ineffective leader who was way over head. The Catholic Church foolishly refused to strongly criticize Hitler’s regime in the mid 1930s.
@51 Sapwolf: “I have decided… after numerous heresies of the Catholic Church, to leave the Church. I’m still Christian…”
And this is what you do to your Church, at its time of need -abandon it? Now that America has chosen Obama as President, why don’t you just abandon the US as well?? And if you leave, where will you go? American Protestantism?
We need people like you, to counter the influence of left-leaning Catholics. Still, it’s your choice. I hope you find happiness (and salvation) wherever you go. Before you go, you should read and pray through this website: http://www.scripturecatholic.com/ see if you can refute the central nature of the Catholic Church in God’s plan.
“This legislation passed… and Obama became POTUS because of the moral failure of the Catholic Church in America…”
Funny, I thought it was the AMERICAN PEOPLE, most of which are PROTESTANT, who elected Obama. And what about the Jews? 77% voted for Obama? The prevailing message coming from US bishops -despite what many here say- during the 2008 election was that Catholics could not in good conscience vote for a pro-abortion candidate. Yet Catholic people opted to do what they pleased. Is this the Church’s fault? The people sin, and you hold the Church to blame?? What about personal accountability?? Was Moses to blame when the Hebrews erected a golden calf??
“…Is the Eucharist at most Catholic parishes still the Body of Christ? I think not.” Wow, you just condemned the Church for “…basically not giving a damn about what’s in the Catechism…” and then dive right into doing exactly that.
Still, I believe your heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, many Catholics are only luke-warm. We need people who can stand up for what they believe, who are willing to go to jail over a weekend (I have attended many Pro Life rallies, but must admit I’ve never gone that far). You have the courage to face the police on that, but do you have the courage to stay in the Church, become deacon, and shine like a light of example for other Catholics?
Chileno;
I don’t know where you live, but I live in the 27th U.S. Congressional District of Texas. You can’t get much more Catholic than that, (basically Northern Mexico), yet these same good Catholics have, for the past 28 years, continued to elect the same pro-choice representative, the Honorable Solomon Ortiz, who voted “yes” for Obamacare yesterday. Why, you ask? Because these good church going Catholics are more interested in their welfare benefits rather than what is right and moral.
Maybe you should preach you goodie-goodie sermon to those who helped bring this about. Catholics can be such hypocrites.
We would all do well to read Revelation, if not the entire Bible, from start to finish. Give special attention to Revelation 2-3; they may be boring compared to the rest of the book, but they have specific messages directly applicable to churches today. Thyatira=Catholic, Sardis=Mainline Protestant, Philadelphia=Evangelical, Laodicea=Emerging.
myth buster; the book of Revelations should be read in the past tense. It refers to the fall of Rome and prays for the end of Christian persecution. A letter from John, if you can imagine, of encouragement to the Christians of modern day Iraq to buck up and have faith. He says that the practice of feeding Christians to lions will come to an end in the Roman empire. It is not a prophetic work about the future. Don’t go there.
59. Except it is, “Five have fallen [Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece], one is [Rome], and one has not yet come [Revived Rome].” Revelation is the New Testament equivalent of Daniel. John’s promise is no mere promise of the fall of the Empire, but a reminder that Jesus will return to establish His Eternal Kingdom on Earth. The first chapter even calls the book a prophetic work. Don’t contradict Jesus.
Dearest JB
Again, is it the fault of the Church that individual Catholics vote how they do? Ever heard of God-given free will? The Catholics in your district will have to answer for their votes when their time comes -for sure- but again, you are confusing the acts of a few with what is Church doctrine.
Your vast effort to deride an entire religious group, and hold it to a higher moral standard than any OTHER Christian church speaks more of your prejudice against Catholicism than anything else. You willfully confuse individual immorality with immorality of the Church itself. If the Church has a problem, it’s with enforcement of doctrine, not with doctrine itself. The US has plenty of laws it fails to properly enforce (e.g. illegal immigration) – does that mean the entire nation is evil, or hypocritical?
Throughout your arrogant rants that demand perfection from the Church, you STILL have yet to enumerate what YOU have done for the Pro Life movement, or to cite evidence to support your inflammatory accusations. Who’s the real hypocrite here?
Chileno,
LOL,, you call my little post an “arrogant rant”, how droll.
I suggest you go back and do a comparative word count and then figure out who is ranting here. I’m sorry that your sensibilities were offended by my thoughts, but I just call ‘em like I see ‘em.
If it walks like a duck,,,
“Ever heard of God-given free will?”
These people usually have a confused notion of the rightness or wrongness regarding the positions of their politicians. Their Catholic leaders have failed to provide them with clear and unambiguous direction. They see Nancy Pelosi visiting the pope and notice that she is not paying a genuine price for her dissent on abortion. No, this is primarily the fault of the present pontiff’s mediocre leadership skills.
David Thompson,
I’d agree, the Church should be more forceful in dealing with rogue elements like Pelosi, especially when they seek to “reinterpret” Church doctrine to suit their needs. But again, I think the Church is hesitant to enter the US political arena, lest it be seen as meddling in US government and violating Church/State separation. But I sure wish the Church would send a clearer message that what Pelosi et. al. are doing is not what good Catholics should be doing. Still, I hardly see this as reason to condemn the Church, or its hierarchy “in toto.”
Pius XII was stronger against the Nazis than most people know, as was his predecessor, Pius XI. Unfortunately, for decades many documents regarding his Papacy have been kept sealed (as is the norm in the Vatican). I don’t have time to go into much detail, but here’s a smattering, in part from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII
Pius XI’s 1937 encyclical, “Mit brennender Sorge,” was specifically written in German (not the usual Latin), to be read on Palm Sunday -the busiest of the year- from every Catholic pulpit in Germany. It criticized Hitler, detailed Nazi crimes and condemned Nazi ideology. Some have characterized it as the “first great official public document to dare to confront and criticize Nazism.” BTW Cardinal Pacelli -later to become Pius XII- cooperated in its drafting.
Pius XII’s first encyclical, “Summi Pontificatus,” in 1939 condemned the invasion/partition of Poland, and rejected anti-Semitism. Unfortunately, at first the Pope attempted to maintain an air of “neutrality,” perhaps in part to protect his own clergy (the Nazis, furious over “Mit brenneder Sorge,” accused/killed thousands of monks) or perhaps emulating Benedict XV’s neutrality in WWI. He did not condemn many atrocities against Jews, but then again he also never specifically condemned Nazi massacres against non-Jews, like the millions of Catholic Poles killed by the Nazis and the Soviets.
But he did work, mostly in quiet fashion, to save the Jews. He hired several prominent Rome Jews after Mussolini’s anti-Jew policies left them without jobs. In 1943, Nazi officials gave Jewish leaders in Rome 36 hours to produce 50 kilos of gold, threatening to take 300 hostages. Then Chief Rabbi of Rome Israel Zolli recounted in his memoir that he went to the Vatican to seek help, and the Vatican offered to loan 15 kilos. Soon afterward, when deportations from Italy were imminent, 477 Jews were hidden in the Vatican itself and another 4,238 were protected in Roman monasteries and convents. 80% of Roman Jews were saved from deportation.
In 1944 the Pope urged the Hungarian government to moderate its treatment of the Jews, and instructed the nuncio to hide and shelter Jews. These protests, along with others from other nations, led to the cessation of deportations in July, 1944. Also in 1944, Pius, with the help of the US State Dept., appealed to 13 Latin American governments to accept “emergency passports,” ostensibly for Jews. In August 2006 extracts from the 60-year-old diary of a nun of the Convent of Santi Quattro Coronati were published in the Italian press, stating that Pope Pius XII ordered Rome’s convents and monasteries to hide Jews during World War II.
Some argue that from 1941-1944, the Catholic Church was responsible for saving more Jews from Nazi persecution than any other institution. Some Israeli scholars estimate that as many as 860,000 European Jews were saved from death through concealment in Church facilities, issuance of fake Baptismal certificates, public appeals and other methods. Even if the number is not quite that high, it’s a lot more than the Church is given credit for.
The World Jewish Congress, American Jewish community, Chief Rabbis of Jerusalem, Rome and Budapest, Golda Meir and many other prominent Jewish representatives praised Pius for his relief efforts and public denunciation of racial persecution. In 1945, the general secretary of the World Jewish Council, Dr. Leon Kubowitzky, presented an amount of money to the pope, “in recognition of the work of the Holy See in rescuing Jews from Fascist and Nazi persecutions.” That year, after the war ended, Harry Greenstein, a close friend of Chief Rabbi Herzog of Jerusalem, told Pius how grateful Jews were for all he had done for them. “My only regret,” the Pope replied, “is not to have been able to save a greater number of Jews.”
Most recently, Rabbi David Dalin’s “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope” argues that critics of Pius are liberal Catholics and ex-Catholics who “exploit the tragedy of the Jewish people during the Holocaust to foster their own political agenda of forcing changes on the Catholic Church today” and that Pius XII was actually responsible for saving the lives of many thousands of Jews.
JB,
Droll? Yet you’re still unable to constructively answer any of my questions: since you seem to have appointed yourself the Judge of all Catholics, what have YOU done to favor the Pro Life cause? Since you spew inflammatory rhetoric against the Church, do you have evidence to back this up? Can you tell the differnce between individual immorality, and immorality within Church doctrine?
Droll is the fact that after all your talk, you’re still and empty bag of hot air. Indeed! If it walks like a duck… Looked in the mirror lately?
Cardinal Mahoney was in Washington DC yesterday. He was not with Tea Party Prolife group protesting Obama Care. He was with the Illegal Immigrants protesting for Amensty. How do I know this? I was there and it was announced at his Religious Education Conference this past weekend. Many of the conference speakers were Pro Obama and Obama Care! Los Angeles Archdiocese needs a real Catholic cardinal to replace him next year when he retires!
Pro-amnesty = Anti-U.S. Sovereignty. Sovereignty is that quality of our Nation to have supreme, and independent authority over our territory.
Illegal immigration is not about religion, it is about letting criminals invade our homes, steal our money, rape our education system, and succor on a very generous welfare system, and enjoy the free emergency room health care laws. If the Catholic Church, and their Bishop Princes are concerned about the Mexican citizenry, they should minister there, not here. I have never understood why a country as beautiful and as resource rich as Mexico could not develop a middle class,,, well, actually I could, it’s called greed and corruption on a massive scale.
And the Catholic Church, (actually outlawed in Mexico), aids and abets this corruption by supporting illegal immigration reforms here. Does anyone else see the irony in this?
What’s wrong with this picture?
I don’t support illegal immigration. It’s hypocritical for Mexicans to demand entrance into the US illegally, as they certainly do not allow Guatemalans to enter their country illegally. But I understand the segments of the Catholic Church that attempt to help the immigrants. It ties in with the notion of the dignity of life -that is, the right each human being has to live a dignified life (born or unborn), as a child of God. I just think Mexicans should live a dignified life within Mexico….
And no, despite bigoted remarks on this thread, not all illegals are criminals that come here to invade, steal, or rape our system. If that were so, no American would hire them to pick their fruits or fill their sweatshops. Once again, jb tries to imply that all Catholics are hypocrites. That statement is obviously false. What is true, is that not all hypocrites are Catholic, as jb clearly demonstrates…
“…not all illegals are criminals that come here to invade, steal, or rape our system.”
That was probably true twenty years ago. But that was a long time ago! A high number of illegal immigrants now enter the United States to deliberately scam the system. Furthermore, they are met by leftist activists who help them to do so.
Chilleno,
I set a trap here, and you walked right into it. By responding to this you have just declared that your true intent to post here is political, not a religious defense. I smelled a rat, or a red herring, from the very beginning. You are a left-wing bigot and a fraud.
I am opposed to abortion… But as long as the Left-wing democrats are in charge, and are so in favor of aborting babies,,, let’s not make it optional; let’s make it MANDATORY~!
Rules:
1,) If a woman is pregnant and unmarried.
2.) Of a minority status.
3.) Unemployed.
4.) On welfare of any kind with no means of long term support for her and the baby, (boyfriend or husband has bailed).
5.) Is likely to be on the public dole long term.
6.) Is unwilling to renounce drug or alcohol abuse.
7.) Is unable to pass basic entrance exams to further education.
8.) Cannot prove she is not a prostitute and provides sex for a fee.
In any of the cases above, the system should shut down and no public welfare benefits are given to the woman in question,,, or if she wants to continue to receive benefits, the abortion is MANDATED by law. Kill the baby!! We need to get rid of the future generations of welfare recipients. We cannot afford them.
I’m gonna love to read your response.
70. jb: edit:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Chilleno,
I set a trap here, and you walked right into it. By responding to this you have just declared that your true intent to post here is political, not of a religious defense. I smelled a rat, or a red herring, from the very beginning. You are really a left-wing bigot and a fraud.
I am opposed to abortion… But as long as the Left-wing democrats are in charge, and are so in favor of aborting babies,,, let’s not make it optional; let’s make it MANDATORY~!
Rules:
1,) If a woman is pregnant and unmarried. — give her a free abortion.
2.) Of a minority status. — give her a free abortion.
3.) Unemployed. — give her a free abortion.
4.) On welfare of any kind with no means of long term support for her and the baby, (boyfriend or husband has bailed). — give her a free abortion.
5.) Is likely to be on the public dole long term.– give her a free abortion.
6.) Is unwilling to renounce drug or alcohol abuse. — give her a free abortion.
7.) Is unable to pass basic entrance exams to further education. –free abortions are a good incentives to do bad.
8.) Cannot prove she is not a prostitute and provides sex for a fee, — abortions should be a right,,, not a privilege. KILL THE BABIES,,, It should be the law, not a choice.
In any of the cases above, the system should shut down and no public welfare benefits are given to the woman in question,,, or if she wants to continue to receive benefits, the abortion is MANDATED by law. Kill the baby!! We need to get rid of the future generations of welfare recipients. We cannot afford them.
I’m gonna love to read your response.
So we’re not to condemn the whole infrastructure for the sins of a “few,” eh?
Take a look here — http://tinyurl.com/ycq5fxx — and here — http://tinyurl.com/kux87j
As the first link states: “The National Review Board for the Protection of Children and Young People established by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has not had an easy time of determining the extent of the sexual abuse of minors within the American Roman Catholic Church. Not surprisingly, there has been considerable internal opposition. This resistance was so bad that long before its work was finished, its chairman, Frank Keating, was forced to resign after he compared the Church’s actions to the Cosa Nostra, which rather proved his point.”
The foxes are guarding the henhouse.
And we’re only looking at the tip of the iceberg, here. “A few,” indeed.
Whether forcing priests to remain unmarried is linked to the sexual abuse problem is still being studied. Regardless, it is an unnatural social construct that can only lead to many problems, not just sexual abuse. And here is a DOCTRINE problem that needs to be addressed, since that subject was raised.
It was St. Paul who ADVISED early missionaries not to get married, as the nature of the job (traveling salesmen) put an undue hardship on family life. NOWHERE do I see Jesus Himself — nor even St. Paul — MANDATING celibacy.
Face it — asking devout Catholics to somehow “step up to the plate” to fix this mess is akin to getting an auto detail team to fix up a bomb site.
I am a Roman Catholic. I am proud to be a Roman Catholic. These past few days I have been sick to my stomach over the stance of the Church. One article about Rep Kildee(r) reported that he consulted with a priest before voting yes, another article reported the the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops supported this bill with the exception of abortion. Well look where this gets us. So here is what I am doing about it. If the Church wants to weigh in on politics especially on the wrong side my donation each week is going to be $2 and that is it until the Church decides to step up and get out of bed with the Government. I will not pay the Church to cut my throat.
This is an excellent article. I am a practicing and believing Catholic. But I am mystified by the timidity of the American Catholic Hierarchy on the issue of abortion. The kid-glove treatment accorded to prominent politicians such as Nancy Pelosi is very frustrating and discouraging to me. I wish the Catholic Bishops had to courage to refuse communion to every so-called Catholic politician who supports abortion and advocates for laws that support abortion, the most egregious of which is the health care bill.
David Thompson,
In responding to jb’s bigoted remark that clearly implied ALL illegals are criminals bent on invading, stealing, raping, etc., I stated that “NOT ALL illegals” are such. Your response essentially agrees with my main premise, as “A high number of illegals…” necessarily means “not all.” Ours may be a difference in degrees which we can argue about (some? many? most?). But JB’s stereotyping ALL illegals as here to steal says more about his own personal prejudices than it does about the illegals.
I certainly agree that a porous border allows ANYONE to enter the US, either out of desperation for work, or to engage in criminal activity (even terrorism). So yes, I’m sure some of those who enter do so with evil pretenses in mind. I see no problem with the US building a 20 foot concrete wall across the entire Mexico border. Any nation has a right to secure and protect its borders, why should the US be any different?
But I do think you underestimate the number who cross simply because they want to earn money to support their folks back home. El Salvador earns more through remittances than it does through exports -and I’m sure a significant portion of that money is from illegals. They are certainly breaking the law, and should be deported. But demonizing the entire group is not fair -and it certainly isn’t a Christian attitude. We are called to see all individuals as children of God, who have a right to a dignified life, regardless of who they are. So no, I don’t have a problem with deporting them, nor with admitting that some are likely criminals. I DO have a problem with demonizing the entire lot -that’s the first step in viewing them as a lesser form of humanity. Once you do that, you can do anything to them.
JB,
What are you smoking? How on earth is arguing based on the premise of the dignity of life -that all life is a precious gift from God- a political statement??
You declare that you’re against abortion… yet would use it on all those you apparently deem “undesirable.” You’re willing to break what I assume must be one of your religious convictions -the sanctity of life- to satisfy a political agenda. And you say I’M being political?? I’m assuming you’re joking, as even you couldn’t possibly be that dense. (BTW you forgot to add the mentally handicapped…) Still, every joke hides a kernel of truth -in this case your prejudice against all of society’s undesirables. …If you smell a rat, it must be that you’re smelling your own arse…
The assertion the Catholic Church tries to make (and it may not drive it home well on occasion, particularly in the US/Europe) is that all life is sacred, and every individual has a right to a dignified life. That’s why it protests abortion (though some of its members might not), and why it seeks to protect the marginalized members of society -e.g. those whom you wish to abort.
The point is NOT to keep them on what John Paul II called the “Social Assistance State,” a condition that ultimately denigrates the human spirit, but rather help them find ways for them to reach fulfillment in their lives. True, some liberal segments of the Catholic Church (e.g. Jesuits, Maryknoll Brothers) are well meaning, but ultimately misguided on how this can be achieved. As a survivor of Latin American big governments, I know exactly how liberal populists can run an entire economy into the ground -ultimately increasing poverty- while other nations like Chile and Colombia rise up through free enterprise. While Cuba wallows in repression/poverty, Chile has cut its poverty rate in half. To raise the poor you need wealth creation, not wealth redistribution, a fact which unfortunately some in the Church fail to recognize. Still, neither politicians nor the masses generally take their economic cues from priests, so I hardly see how their positions are so detrimental. Has it ever occurred to you that the common denominator among those voting Democrat in your district was not religion, but economic status??
So I agree with the Church that all individuals -including illegals- are worthy of humane treatment, even if only to deport them across the border. You have a problem with illegals? Build a bigger wall! Convict the AMERICANS who keep hiring them!
And please excuse me if I find it hypocritical that you would condemn the entire Church for “not doing enough” to save the unborn, feigning concern for human life (you were NEVER able to mention ONE thing you’ve done for the Pro Life movement, so I must assume you’ve done squat), and then turn around to summarily demonize an entire group of fellow humans. Your interest in the Pro Life issue is merely to use it to bludgeon the Catholic Church.
I hope you enjoyed my response! BTW, I posted your “left wing bigot” comment on Facebook, it was great! All my friends, who know me for my conservative positions, really got a kick out of it!
Eowyn,
Interesting links you post, particularly since they support my assertions! Your link cites a report stating that 4,392 US clerics (priests, deacons, bishops, etc.) have been “accused” of abuse from 1950-2002. Let’s assume they were all guilty -that’s still about 4% of the 109,694 serving at the time. And I think we could all agree that 4% is but a “few,” when compared to the other 96%….
You may be right that having Church members investigate themselves is akin to having the fox guard the hens (I’d like to see independent investigations, as was the case in Ireland), but your posting a link to a site referring to “Priests of Darkness” is akin to sending the hunter to guard the fox… Even so, if that’s your worst, your worst won’t do.
“Whether forcing priests to remain unmarried is linked to the sexual abuse problem is still being studied…” Despite your desperate attempt to imply that celibacy drives priests to abuse, even you can’t find data to prove this. In fact, your first link destroys that notion. Data on the link from the Methodist, Presbyterian, and Southern Baptist Churches -where the clergy DOES marry- shows an equal or greater proportion of clergy engaging in sexual abuse… And if celibacy drives pedophilia, I wonder how you’d explain the nearly 400,000 registered sex offenders in the US -most of whom are NOT clergy…. It’s been estimated that 1-5% of the general population molests children http://www.yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_child_molester.html , so the 4% estimate among US Catholic clergy is not an aberration. Pedophilia is a heinous crime, and I do think the Church bungled the handling of the issue, with evidence some tried to cover up abuse, or -worse yet- reassign priests to areas where they still had contact with children. But again, these are individuals acting immorally, against Church dogma. These are the failures of individuals, including some higher in the Church establishment. It is not a failure of what the Church stands for. Watergate, ABSCAM, Iran-contra, Monica Lewinski, all proved there was corruption and abuse of power in the highest echelons of US government. Does that mean the US, or its Constitution, are evil/flawed? Hardly. It means that while we aspire to high standards, all of us are human, and will fall.
If celibacy was only an “unnatural social construct that can only lead to many problems,” why did St. Paul encourage it?? It is only unnatural if you take man as merely an animalistic being, whose goal is not salvation, but species preservation. That’s a puerile argument, if one considers the primary goal of the Church. Besides, I don’t think species preservation will depend on a few hundred thousand priests, vs. 6 billion humans… The fact is St. Paul advised it, as did Jesus himself “…others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matt 19:12 And if it were so problematic, why does GOD himself celebrate it??
“And let not any eunuch complain, ‘I am only a dry tree.’ For the LORD says: ‘To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant – to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.” Isaiah 56:3-5
I hardly believe it would be a “dogmatic” problem if the Church opts to follow the advice/encouragement of St. Paul, Jesus, and even God.
BTW, it would never be a “dogmatic” issue anyway, as celibacy is not Church DOGMA. Church dogma is an undisputed, infallible belief. No future Pope can change established dogma, as it’s considered irrefutable. Celibacy, however, is a Church regulation -which could be changed at any moment if the Pope so deemed it. http://hnn.us/articles/696.html And celibacy is mostly confined to the Roman Rite Catholics. Eastern Rite Catholics allow for married priests. Married Anglican priests converting to Catholicism are allowed to remain priests -and remain married. Next time you want to debate “dogma,” please do a little homework on the subject.
BTW, priests aren’t “forced” into anything they didn’t know about beforehand. If you don’t want to be celibate, that’s fine. The Church considers marriage a sacrament and a vocation. If you wish to be active in your Church, become a deacon! And if you became a priest, and later opted to marry, you can renounce your vows, marry, and still be a practicing Catholic.
For sure, Catholics are an imperfect breed (is YOUR congregation perfect?). Yet we strive to follow the dogma we hold true, and we’ve persevered for 2,000 years. How old is your church? Next time you open your Bible, even if it’s the Protestant version, remember that you only have it because for at least 1,500 years, the texts you read were copied, preserved, and canonized by imperfect Catholics like the ones we have today.
I just want it is not too late for obama to change his mind. After all, immigrants have become a culture of US. How to treat them is not only the business of US but the whole world as well. To gain more supports, it is even more important than others.